So in the modern day, with guns and flamethrowers and UV lights and whatever, humans can only barely keep up with vampires, and vampires have to maintain the masquerade, right? Why weren't vampires just in charge of everything during medieval days, when all the humans had were pitchforks and torches?
the writers didnt wanted them to be
>>96845419>Why a game circling around the concept of vampires and masquerade of their presence is about vampires and masquerade?No idea. Biggest mistery, OP
>>96845419>Why weren't vampires just in charge of everything during medieval days, when all the humans had were pitchforks and torches?they can die just as fast with a sword or axe blow or a spear through the heart and they could get burnt and crushed too. Medieval violence-tiers were colossal.
>>96845419>humans can only barely keep up with vampiresno, eg. society of leopold>vampires have to maintain the masquerade, right?right, most of them agree on this. lot of them don't. eg. almost anyone outside of the camarilla>Why weren't vampires just in charge of everything during medieval daysthey were. eg. trinity of constantinopleeither a bait thread or you miraculously forget that sunlight, other vampires and even rötschreck exist, so no, vampires can't do literally anything they want despite the disciples
>>96845419>guns and flamethrowers and UV lightsbyzantines had hand-held greek fire flamethrowers and greek fire grenadesa halberd tearing you apart works better than a gun against a vampirethe sun was always there
>>96845419>maintain the masquerade,during medieval times people believed in the supernatural far more and in more dangerous ways for vampires. they were more in danger then, than now
>>96846218There's a certain type of anon that wants to treat every setting as a chink cultivation game where the only goal is to become a demigod warlord.>Why don't they just openly conquer the world?Because why the hell should they? That's a lot of risk when it isn't even remotely necessary. All vampires need to rule is their own little world and sphere of influence. With only a couple ghouls, a haven, and a herd, most vampires just want to while away their days obsessing over their niche interests. Conquering the world is only a goal of immature narcissists.Why don't they conquer the world? Why doesn't ANYONE conquer the world?Conquering the world is difficult, ruling the world sucks, and the rewards aren't worth it.
>>96846251I didn't read their lore, but I know a bit about Mages, Where they more powerful back then when everyone believed in magic?
>>96845419The shortest answer to everything is "other vampires." The setting (especially the game you posted) makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that Kindred are always going to be sabotaging themselves and backstabbing their peers for more power. All you have to do is say, "Oh yeah, this one elder genocided 99% of kindred and that allowed the humans the chance to build their numbers up," and you now have an explanation for why vamps didn't conquer the world.
>>96846276>Where they more powerful back then when everyone believed in magic?Yes, mages were more powerful in the Middle Ages.
>>96846276paradox effects are not as bad, they could fuck around without severe repercussions. Paradox, the metaphysical stop-fucking-around with reality backlash that punishes mages for violating the Consensus, was minimal or nonexistent in many situations so the mages were far more dangerous then.
>>96846264>the only goal is to become a demigod warlordLot of VTM players treat the game like this though, and I get it in the sense that it's easy to get lost in power fantasies. The problem is, that even without the masquerade involved, vampires are CURSED TO HIDE both figuratively and literally. Players should be reminded of that for any shred of that kind of realism OP is demanding with these questions. Sure the ancient ones may sound spooky powerful, but you know what else is spooky? Diablerie and the anarch revolt. There's a reason not even those vampires run rampaging whole cities every single night.
If vampires got to uppidy in mideival times would they have to deal with mages coming to kill their asses?
>>96845419ultimately vampires are idiot savants, great at doing some thing but they are very bad at others.With the masquerade they would all be dead. Even in the game-fictional world of WoD.
>>96846485>would they have to deal with mages coming to kill their asses?and other supernaturals and cosmic forces if need be
>>96845419>UV lights>gunsliterally worthless against vampires>peasant with torchesstraight up MOGS even methuselah one failed roll and your getting herded into the sun or fire
>>96845419It is like asking why jews do not practice blood libel openly Vampires in folklore are basically jews , can only work in the darkness and will be by the sunlight, the humanity outnumbers them and will crush the 0.2% in case of total war so they have to keep the goyim cattle divided through a global conspiracy and any few individuals or a small group that figures things out will be branded as anti-Cainites and the clans can crush them easily, if Kines start to kidnap childern and drink thier blood openly it means open season on Vampires and thier shabbos goy ghouls
>>96846400Power fantasy is how the game was intended to be played from the start.
>>96846218>rötschreckcan vampires (pretend to) smoke cigarettes and thus get used to at least a small amount of fire nearby, or is it impossible to get used to?
>>96846597Then play it that way, none of my business. The lore breaks down though, so I definitely how would that be the case from a design perspective.>>96846655If I remember right, depends on the character's Humanity / Path. The basic idea is I think that the "beast inside" is the one scared as fug of fire, so the closer you are to the "beast", the more intense the fear is.
>>96846218>almost anyone outside of the camarilla>>96846400>anarch revolt.Anarchs didnt join the camarilla but IIRC were present at the covenant of thorns and support the masquerade it established. Only really sabbat members believe in open rule and even then its mostly larpers
>>96845419A. UV light doesn't work in VtMB. Most of the vampires just prefer the shadows. Some (especially Tzimische in eastern Europe) did outright rule more-or-less openly.But even without flamethrowers, only the very most powerful vamps in VtM can take on 1,000 people and win.
>>96846587Vampires in the original tales could be distracted by throwing grain on the ground or hanging a fishing net and the vampire would be compelled to count the seeds or holes till sunrise as they apparently suffer from arithmomania , guess which other race is possessed with bean counting
>>96845419>Why weren't vampires just in charge of everything during medieval days, when all the humans had were pitchforks and torches?Play Dark Ages: Vampire if you want the full setting explanation for this but the long and short of it is A:vampires ALSO benefit greatly from technology, remember that they're completely paralyzed for 12 hours a day and even a commoner can kill them with a stake through the heart. Modern day Havens are wayyyyyy better protected than old school ones, and Ghouls having guns also benefits the vampires. B: True Faith was a lot more common in the past and is anathema to vampires and the supernatural. The modern world being increasingly skeptical, cynical, irony poisoned, and distracted by the information overload of modern life means they're easier to prey uponC: other supernaturals were also around and often had an interest in mankind not going extinct, including Mages who were much much much more able to operate openly since the Technocracy hadn't won the ascension war yet, there were more Werewolves who'd protect any kinfolk communities, and Dark Ages Fae were a lot stronger and less pathetic than modern day changelings in Dreaming. Also remember that torches and stakes are all it takes to kill a vampire anyways. They are supernaturally vulnerable to fire to the point even the mere sight of an open flame forces them to make a roll or immediately shit their pants screaming in Rotschrek, guns are pretty garbage at killing vampires since they take half damage and downgrade it to bashing instead of lethal, even in 2025 the best way to kill vampires is lots and lots of fire.But even with all this they were more able to openly operate than they can now, there's not vampire lords openly ruling and governing towns and cities from a big spooky castle like they could in the dark ages, now they're shady billionaires running shell companies and avoiding the limelight since everybody's got a fucking cell phone
>>96846655If your humanity and courage are high enough a small flame like a cigarette is possible, and some vampires will intentionally smoke to flex and be a badass (and also because it's peak 90s edge), or to hide their lack of breath in cold environments, but it's not something you can ever "get used to" and if you're a wimp even a lighter can trigger a panic response
>>96849319so they all have pyrophobia
>>96849338The correct spelling is Phyrephobia. Unless you buy the DLC. You can get a free roll as a treat, then.
>>96845419>>96846485mages themselves got btfo during the dark ages by the shadow inqusition like 4 of their fellowships (proto traditions) are on the brink of extinction in dark age mage because of these guys and remind you that's before paradox was a thing inuniversewod solved op's question by just given the church actual fucking paladins with faith based super powers who btfoed all other splats together at their strongest and then disappeared because people became less faithful
>>96849351>The correct spelling ishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophobia
>>96849379It was a joke about Bloodlines 2.
>>96849387>a jokenow i got it :|)
>>96847046>Anarchs didnt join the camarilla but IIRC were present at the covenant of thorns and support the masquerade it established.Yes. Anarch's issue was that new Traditions didn't free them enough from what they perceived as being under their elder's yoke. Masquerade was the kind of common sense issue. Unsurprisingly, Sabbat were the most extreme of Anarchs.
>>96845419Back in dark ages humans had whole another weapon against the supernatural - genuine faith in the Lord.
>>96849360>who btfoed all other splats together at their strongest and then disappeared because people became less faithfulSo the Masquerade actually worked and served its purpose? You can not resist something you do not know it even exists , and those who say otherwise are considered nutjobs/crack pots and conveniently eliminated/suicided/disappeared without a problem Why would Vampire ruin a good thing if everyone stopped believing in the supernatural
>>96849538>Why would Vampire ruin a good thing if everyone stopped believing in the supernaturalthey don't the Masquerade is the one thing every sect (even if begrudgingly when it comes to some sabbat) agrees is awesome and the only vampires who are against it are nutjobs like julien from nightroad or actual antediluvians during gehenna who don't have to worry about hunters and don't care about their underlings dying eitherlike you said it's awesome for a predator if your prey does not know that you even exists
>>96845419WoD vampires are only barely stronger than humans and only conditionally.
>>96849553remember when Toreador was the best combat clan? turns out being slightly better at hitting normal people with a tire iron doesn't make you immune to being ganged up on by three people
>>96849538>so the masquerade workedno what he's saying is Leopold and the inquisition raped vampires and wizards so hard they all went into hiding and are secretive to this day because if their presence was made more publicly believed and known it would lead to people accepting mythology and religion more vehemently and the historical cycle would be created. Humanity is in a situation where if the vamps or other splats do anything too boldly or sloppily, they will inevitably be raped by mankind. Humans are the mighty glaciers of the setting. Getting public awareness raised enough means everything not a human gets obliterated. It doesn't even have to be a full blown fallen mask situation, just the public slowly over time awakening to their existence (something that's stated to happen eventually) will lead to a new crusade. Humanity's going to shitstomp the supernatural again it's just a matter of time.
>>96849642Celerity makes you a comic book speedster which is why wareodors with I STUDIED THE BLADE sword autism as the focus of their clan obsession are so strong. (Helen of Troy is a Toreador in WoD and she has a several thousand year old Ghoul lover who's basically the archetypal wareodor, he's a ghoul but due to his age and experience he can solo most elder vampires in seconds)
>>96849309>since everybody's got a fucking cell phoneI bet this is the biggest weakness for most Kindred on the modern nights.It is especially problematic for the older generations who will struggle to understand modern technology like the internet and social media (for some of them even phones and cars) i wonder if thier is WoD analogue to 4chens where schizoids actually get shit done and exchange tips that exposes the masquerade
>>96845419Numbers rule all and when there's possible tens to hundreds of thousands of Human's compared to one of you, you may not want to start shit in the wrong neighborhood. Same reason zombies often win in zombie stories. Because you aren't winning when there's 400k of them for every one person.
>>96849309>everybody's got a fucking cell phoneShould be easy as fuck to get away with shit in the 2020's compared to say 1820's. I show you ANYTHING supernatural for real and it'd be>fake>AI>AI>Special effects and CG>HoaxI don't even see why vamps need to do damage control. Human's will do it themselves.Especially since modern Human society is largely post-truth.>take a picture of Vampire with my cellphone>get replied with "This is a shop. I know because I have seen many shops in my time." and "AI Slop." and "Deepfake"Mother fucker I could meet an Alien and take full video of me talking to it and still everyone would call me a hoaxer aside from a tiny group of people who would be deemed crazy. People won't believe shit anymore even if you could give them objective scientific proof. Ancient society would believe in the extraordinary. Modern society would deny it even if Vampires were sucking on their neck at that moment. "This is all just a jewish conspiracy and vampires aren't real."
In addition to what others have said, if vampires really started rampaging around in the modern nights, the Technocracy would go after them hard.
>>96849309>guns are pretty garbage at killing vampiresNot if you use incendiary ammunition they aren't.
>>96849897Zombies only win due to plot demanding it for the cool post-apocalypse vibe. There is no real realistic way that zombies that reproduce by biting would ever win against tanks, which is why the part where zombies actually win is always skipped. Zombie apocalypse stories either take place in a civilian area and never show any military or after militaries have already been defeated. Bringing zombies up is essentially saying: "Yeah it doesn't make sense, so don't think about it".
>>96851706Zombies only win against civilians?Get real nerd. Zombies win every time 1v1 me irl and get wrecked.T. Zombie
>>96845419Maybe the Church had real God given power then? Blessed Silver, Relics of Saints, Holy Water, Holy Symbols, Holy plants and herbs, consecrated ground, power of prayer, blessed sunlight, etc. As True Belief declined over time it was supplanted and eventually replaced (for most) by technology?
World of Darkness has never made much sense and it’s incredibly far fetched even as far as urban fantasy goes.
>>96846251There’s far, FAR more surveillance today than now, anon. Have fun being a vampire in fucking China. Stay out of the cities.
>>96852833Show us a game with better vampire worldbuilding than oWoD then. I would love to be introduced to a lore that is superior and makes sense.
>>96845419Anyone got any good Malkavian or Tremere wallpapers? I’ve been looking around and can’t find a good one for my phone.
>>96845419>Why weren't vampires just in charge of everything during medieval daysThey were, for a long time.
>>96852850But back then people actually believed in vampires, openly, commonly, meaning the ways to fight vampires were also common knowledge.
>>96852884Not even a game, the only contender I can think of is the Blade movies.
>>96854200So an oWoD rip off with hundreds of millions and Hollywood behind it? The Blade movies veered off its comics sources material and was more of VtM than VtM itself , the first movie stole so much from the art of Tim bradstreet fucking Del Toro personally hired him for the second moviePicrel , the antagonists are basicly the Venture / Ventrue
>>96845419Probably because it's hard to rule over a feudal society, especially if it escalates to pitched battles, when you can only fight whenever there's no sunlight? Not even talking about how they'd pitch camp during siege or anything else.
>>96852850Any vampire in China is in far more danger of dying to bridge collapses, elevators, random building cave-ins, escalators and traffic accidents than any chink vampire hunter.
>>96845419Vampires sleep during the day. That's a big vulnerability. If you find out where they sleep, they've lost
>>96846544>guns>literally worthless against vampiresThey still take damage from bullets. A magdump from a modern rifle (assuming the Hunter is strong enough to keep it mostly on target) is going to put any leech without some serious armor down, even if he can tank more bullets than a normal human.
>>96852884You will have to wait until I release my vampire game anon (no I'm not kidding) I already have a good number of vampire lineages made and art assets.
>>96858237These days a femboy can take an ancient vampire lord with an FPV molotov cocktail dildo drone equipped with infra red night vision
>>96845419The most cracked theory I've heard, which I don't buy in to but I think is weirdly logical, is a headcanon idea that not just generation but actual time counts for vampire power. So during the time of the medieval or maybe of Rome Ur-Shulgi was more like a modern Methuselah. A dark ages elder was more like a modern Ancilla. As such, during the medieval Methesuleh were untouchable but more common vampires could still be felled by angry mobs with swords and torches.
>>96849928Anon, please be less of a whiny cunt. No, if you had filmed evidence of something obviously supernatural the entire world would not automatically kick down your door to pull down your pants and bully you for your micropenis. If someone filmed something supernatural:1) People would think it was cool even if they weren't sure it was real. 2) This wouldn't happen in a vacuum, many people would probably be capable of filming similar things.3) Shockingly it is entirely possible to tell if something is AI or faked or not, and experts could.4) You don't need experts if multiple people film the same supernatural thing, because faking something correctly from multiple angles is so fucking absurdly difficult it's basically supernatural in itself. No, one video of the supernatural would probably not instantly bust the masquerade open. But over time it would be eroded and vampires would become openly acknowledged.
>>96849547Julian's plan is to slowly get people used to vampires while also doing something vague with his super formula. Hardly going "fuck the masquerade lets expose ourselves immediately"
>>96845419>Why weren't vampires just in charge of everything during medieval days, when all the humans had were pitchforks and torches?All the other character types prevented it. >fuck letting some vampire faggot run the kingdom, I worked real hard as a mage to brainwash the retard kingfor example.
Louis Paster cured vampirism, once back in the 90s.Then again, killing your sire within a time limit also cured vampirism back in the 90s.
>>96846597This is very obviously not true.
>>96845419I'm kind of surprised no one has pointed out: vampires are solitary predators who instinctually politic and fuck each other over, constantly. They didn't take over because they are more interested in navel gazing and fucking over their enemies than building some kind of a working establishment.
For the same reason they can't take over the world today. If they go outside the cities the werewolves basically act as videogame invisible walls where a big fish comes and eats you
>>96845419Why make vampires a biological species of predators? Make them walking undead that haunt people at night.
