How do you play Chaotic Evil without making your character cartoonishly petty and stupid?
>>96850496It's very easy if you simply think about it.
>>96850496You're not writing the next great American novel. You're playing pretend with friends. Get cartoonishly petty and stupid, make your friends laugh. Make them invested in your character's antics. You'll always get chances to "get serious" later in the campaign, trying to "be serious" at the start will exhaust you.
>>96850496>Chaotic Evilwell, your character is genuinely evil and also chaotic. He is an absolute monster.
>>96850496I'd worry more about being an utter hindrance and annoyance to the party.There's plenty of ways to be a law breaking, self serving person without it completely detailing whatever you're doing at any moment
>>96850496Give them a personality rather than just acting randomly.
>>96850630>There's plenty of ways to be a law breaking, self serving person without it completely detailing whatever you're doing at any momentYeah, brevity is wit.
>>96850496You don't. If you do. I do not allow you at my table. Even in evil campaigns.
>>96850496Evil is cartoonishly petty and stupid. all you need to do is look at the current American, Russian, and British governments. Evil, petty, stupid, destructive, and ultimately useless to anyone save themselves.
Well you can be in control of your emotions and intelligent while being chaotic evil. If we take the extreme example of psychopathic serial killers in our modern society, for a lot of them, people that knew them will say that they were the most normal, boring and nicest person around. But inside they hid something truly evil.Acting on impulse does not make you evil, just impulsive. An evil person can be very deliberate, calculating.Personally I would go that way.
>>96850630If your concern is being a detriment to your party then you are already more mature than most players, and you should probably play some other alignment.That said, what I can offer is that if you insist on being CE than you should have some code of behaviour. This code can make sense to your character even if it doesn't make sense to a broader society, like an obsession or quirk. Chaos can come from this. As for evil that can be as simple as not being remorseful for how this quirk hurts others, or disrespects them. Something like hitting someone instead of asking them to be quiet, or collecting a particular body part from defeated humanoids. This paints a high functioning psychopath kept in line by his own rules. Absolutely discuss this stuff with your party and DM first so they can help figure out ways to implement this stuff without it being a problem. Communication is critical in TTRPGs.
>>96850496
>>96851079>This code can make sense to your character even if it doesn't make sense to a broader societyFor Chaotic, it's ESPECIALLY if it doesn't make sense to a broader society.
>>96850496OP, if you are into anime look at Power from Chainsaw Man. The character is evil in sense that she egoistic in nature and lacks empathy. She is also chaotic and doesn't abide law or any order. But, she is always happy and actually friendly. She will protect a person that is dear to her. So that is, evil and chaotic doesn't mean uncooperative or unfriendly. It can work.
>>96850496Florida Man, but without the good stories.
>>96851089Sorry, that guy is Lawful Neutral. He has a strict code he works by, but doesn't go out of his way to harm anyone but his prey, whom he never actually kills and who genuinely deserve to be humbled. He considers himself a villain, but he consistently helps people who need it despite that. He doesn't mind working with evil either, because they're just tools to him.Now, if you'd posted Bones of Creation.....he sounds cartoonish, but his actions make perfect sense for his goals: perfect his fighting style while deceiving everyone as to its nature, take what he desires regardless of cost, consequences, or others threats, and treat his allies politely and his enemies ruthlessly while not concerning himself with other's niceties.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HYXjcELQ3M
>>96850496You make him petty and cartoonishly stupid because that is the most fun
>>96851153Yeah, you can be chaotic evil and somehow cooperative. But power is also really stupid and petty, as OP said. CE is a hard archetype to not make stupid, psychopats and serial killers tend to have some inner code, which makes them NE or LE.I think Joker-type characters would be the non idiotic version of CE. Just a force of chaos and hedonism without regard for others; Or some barbarian king who just wants to fuck, steal and kill to satisfy his own desires; or a noble who knows himself above the law and thinks he deserves anything he wants. They can all be scheming and smart without following any rules or being over the top, just willing to stomp over anyone for their own desires.
>>96850496>how do you play cartoonishly petty and stupid without being cartoonishly pettey and stupid
>>96851169I do not know this character so I am not refuting anything that you said about him but I want to add that having a strict personal code does not make you lawful automatically.Your code can very much be against law and order. If we take the characters of two face and Anton Chigurh they go about with a very strict code which is, the coin decides, but this code is pretty much the definition of chaos.
>>96851325>I do not know this character so I am not refuting anything that you said about him but I want to add that having a strict personal code does not make you lawful automatically.This is wrong. Any amount of self-restraint or forethought automatically disqualifies you from being Chaotic.
>>96850496Frieza.
>>96850506This kind of vague meaningless smug douchery is why you've been kicked out of every single campaign you've tried to join, Kevin.
>>96852051He's the Emperor of half the galaxy, he's the epitome of Lawful.
>>96851876Chaotic can include temporary eddies of order. And an evil character can also want good things. Chaotic evil actually contains all possible goals and means to purse them, where being good or orderly excludes many things.
>>96852121Show me his tax policy if he's so lawful.
>>96851169I would say he's more neutral evil. He follows his whims and is only targeting villains because he finds deceiving the "good guys" boring.Ultimately he's self-serving aside from a couple of people he considers "favorite pets" and him not killing his prey because he wants them to suffer more. Case in point - how hilariously sulky and petty he gets when his target doesn't go "oh noooo i am RUINED".
>>96851876I completely disagree with you, based on what you are saying a chaotic character is reduced to be a simple animal which only acts on instinct and impulse. That's the kind of reasoning that made op ask that question in the first place.
>>96850496CE social organizations function under "if I follow the strongest/smartest guy I will be given riches and moments of indulgence".So all you need to do is have your character trust that the a party face will give them what they want easier than having to do it by themselves.
>>96852121He doesn't follow his own rules and barely cares about his organization, it only exists to further his whims
>>96852447Wrong, because animals are Lawful.
>>96852121Are you retarded? Many rulers are Evil and/or Chaotic.>>96851876>>96853084You're a fucking idiot. Alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive, and few mortals fully encapsulate their alignment in its entirety, they are simply in alignment with it in the broadest possible sense.
>>96850496That's like asking how to go on the bumper cars without bumping into anyone.
>>96852260Give me everything or I blow up your whole planet.
>>96850496Chaotic evilness *IS* petty and stupid you stupid nigger. You remember kid buu? Nigger was pure retarded destruction. No rhyme or reason
>>96852121It's his father who is the Lawful Evil, the one holding everything together. Even his brother is likely also Lawful Evil. Frieza however... is a sadistic cunt, even to his own servants.
>>96850496Why do you have to be cartoonish? Real chaotic evil people cooperate with normal people and exist in society. You don't need to feed the proverbial wolf with every single action you take
Just make a selfish asshole who doesn't respect the law. This isn't even really hard to do.
>>96852260>>96852567>>96853519Tell me you've only watched the Funimation dub without saying you only watched the Funimation dub.Fucking Toei understands Dragon Ball better than Funimation does.Freeza is a sadistic evil cunt, and a hypocrite, but he's very much someone who respects tradition, title, and the roles people play within a strict hierarchy.>>96854094>Frieza>iOpinion discarded.
>>96850496I’m a big believer into the “character alignment diamond” theory.(Sorry, can’t find a pic)Basically, “neutral” is the most pure version of each alignment in the good-evil axis. Lawful Good is good, but constrained by the law. Chaotic Good is good, but believes in freedom (including when it brings some measures of bad consequences, presumably). Neutral Good is the most purely devoted to good.Therefore, by the same logic, LE is bad, but still believes in order, and CE is largely self serving, but still believes in freedom.NE is the most petty evil.So, a punk who only cares about his own interests but who respects your right to do the same and occasionally stick it to the man even if he doesn’t benefit from it directly, could be a good CE character.
>>96850514>>96850743>>96851243>>96851300
>>96852121He was a paranoid conqueror for fun and profit and a massive racist who participated in wanton murder, genocide, and barbaric cruelty for the sake of pure sadism.He is as far from lawful as it gets.
>>96850842>>96854144These are the best answers that will be given. Chaotic evil needn't be a crazy wanton psycho like the joker, there is plenty of room in the alignment for someone violently selfish yet still restrained and pragmatic.
>>96850496you dontchaotic evil means petty doucheand if you want qa petty douche to be fun for other people at the table too you have to be cartoonish about it
>>96850496By using everything at your disposal to enact your evil schemes, you're chaotic which means you can start the revolt that leads to a lot of death because you really need a distraction to get that magic item, also that promise of aid to the rebels isnt coming because you got what you wanted.
>>96850496>How do you play Chaotic Evil without making your character cartoonishly petty and stupid?Remember that being Chaotic Evil just means you prioritize your own selfish self-interest above all else, or doesn't make you stupid or even incapable of caring about things like family or a partner. The archetypal example of how to do competent chaotic evil is looking at how dragons act. Many species of dragon are naturally chaotic evil. That doesn't mean they act like retarded cannon fodder, and are capable of long-term alliances of interests, and if the enormous amount of draconic sorcerers is an indication, even having relations and cooperation with mortals that manage to catch their attention. You're still going to be prideful and wrathful and selfish, but those are honestly traits MOST adventurers have to some extent already. You're probably motivated by wealth and fame....but again, that's in the job description. The biggest problem when playing evil characters is when somebody is both evil AND stupid. That inevitably involves behaving like dumb cannon fodder, and unsurprisingly gets you a short and violent end. But alignment has no bearing on intelligence. Evil shapeshifters like succubi are chaotic evil and nevertheless manage to successfully infiltrate human society for decades at a time without being caught. TL;DR: play your chaotic evil character with the same competence and intelligence you'd expect of a campaign's chaotic evil final boss, not like his chaotic evil orc goons.
>>96855003another classic example are Drow, who despite being Chaotic still manage to have large scale highly advanced societies churning out shittons of high level mages and clerics and warriors who can fight against epic level adventurers on even footing. They still have politics and planning and strategy, it's just those are applied to a backstabbing cut-throat hellscape where the slightest display of weakness gets you murdered and overthrown.
>>96854727He was also the lawful ruler of half the galaxy, only ever infiltrates into GalPol space on legal loopholes, and respects the hierarchy of his own organization. He's as Lawful Evil as it gets.
>>96855031>Drow got so bad that their patron godess had to intervene directly and tell them to cut down on the backstabbing retardation before they totally imploded as a societyNot a ringing endorsement there.
>>96850496You want to see the world burn and the cities crumble, just not be a "lol random shit *clown's horn sound*" retardDoes the giant evil monster that wants to destroy the whole world acts like a puppy? No. See? not that hard. Have some dignity and character.
>>96850496The three big ways1. Me first. The character just always looks out for numero uno. Nothing else matters. Alliances are temporary power boosters, that can be cashed in at any point. 2. It's all for their sake. Similar to 1, but this is for someone else. The main difference, is this type of character can actually be portrayed as, on the surface of it, noble and well adjusted. The issue is that EVERYTHING is okay, if it's for whoever it is. Maybe the character has a dead family member or lover, and everything else is an acceptable sacrifice for them to come back. Most of the time, the character might even seem normal, but the true depths of how fucked their priorities are, are always there. 3. Hedonist. They don't give a fuck about any order to anything, and just want to have a good time. If pretending to follow the rules some of the time, means more fun time later, they can hold back. Kinda like starving yourself before a feast, so the meal tastes better.
>>96850496By pretending to be lawful Good. Make my character seem like such a good upstanding member of the community nobody will believe anyone who says otherwise.>What do you mean Gallshank ate a baby? That guy's a saint. You are full of shit.
>>96850496I don't. I play the game for fun, and the best way for me to have fun with Chaotic Evil is to be chaotic and evil about it. It's not really a problem the way you imagine it, anybody who's ever really played the game knows it's Lawful Good characters who create intraparty drama and try to PVP.
>>96850496Chaotic means you are not bound by social norms and laws. It doesn't mean that you are too stupid to follow them if they suit your personal self-interest.Evil means that you act in your own self-interest in all things. It doesn't mean you stab your party members in the back because having them on your side is in your best interest.Al Capone is a good example of Chaotic Evil. He was in charge of A LOT of heinous shit and definitely didn't give a shit about the law. He also helped his community, kept people safe from more violent crime, and was well liked by the common man in his area. Hell, it time the Valentine's Day Massacre before public outcry of any sort was raised against him.
>>96854199>sadistic>evil cunt>hypocrite>Lawful NautralR E T A R D
>>96850496the typical marauding outlaw type, some kind of brigand or highwayman, etc
>>96856053That's Neutral Evil though.
>>96856053>>96856583Capone is NE, however its close.The important thing that's missing is direct will to not care about the system.A Chaotic Evil version of Capone when they nailed him for tax evasion he would of gone "fuck it" and went underground.To be Chaotic Evil sensibility must be tinged with passion, that doesn't mean you can't be sensible, but that the sensibility needs to firstly be rationalization for emotional impulses and then act on logic to achieve those emotional goals.
>>96850496You don't. CE is the archetype for the trash. Majority of beings would end up being psychopathic retards with low impulse control.>>96851257>CE is a hard archetype to not make stupid, psychopats and serial killers tend to have some inner code, which makes them NE or LE.It doesn't. They don't have inner code, they have their obsessions and feeble attempts at self-justification, common to most retards.Specifically most of them act on a whim.Joker and Barbarian King might work, the Noble is NE. Over the top is the thing about CE.>The archetypal example of how to do competent chaotic evil is looking at how dragons act. Many species of dragon are naturally chaotic evil. That doesn't mean they act like retarded cannon fodderIt does actually. Majority of dragons act pretty much like big evil magpies and get killed unceremoniously when they underestimate their next target.Everyone is capable of alliance of interests, but thing about CE is it's all a whim that doesn't bother at the moment.
>>96855079>*bounces tits* LAWFUL MEANS YOU FOLLOW LAAAAWWSSSSS LAWFUL MEANS YOU FOLLOW LAAAAAAWWWWWSSSSSS MUH COOOOOOOODE *bounces tits*
In a world where earth has been polluted to inhospitable levels by war and space became inaccessible due to their own doing, the corporate and resistance group still fights each other for their ideals.Old King asks these warmongers acting all high and mighty who they think they are to decide who lives and dies, and plans to kill them all to prove they die all the same.
>>96855031Drow are Neutral Evil, it's just their leaders who tend to be Chaotic Evil since they're priestesses of Lolth.It's regular elves who tend towards Chaotic.
>>96850496Just your garden variety generic gang member or criminal.Loyal only as long as someone is looking and there is a threat of retribution.Becomes a traitor and a bully as soon as there is some potential personal gain without repercussions.Blames everyone but himself when things inevitably go awry,You've met, or are, a person like this.Play the character the same way.
>>96850496Just embrace it
>>96853519Prescriptive.
>>96850496Have an actual goal and consider when killing makes sense or not.
>>96857621take your prescriptions
>>96850496Clinically insane warlock/sorcerer granma who will do anything no matter how heinous as long as it benefits or entertains her grandchildren. For some reason she considers the party members to be her grandchildren. If the party isn't particularly evil inclined they might be able to tardwrangle her into being harmless or even good
>>96857354Always Chaotic Evil means always Chaotic Evil. That's my favorite thing about Salvatore, his OC going around all, "but I'm one of the Good ones, guys," and just spreading evil everywhere he goes. Fucking great. Who says an all evil campaign can't work. They clearly never read that Icewind Dale trilogy.
>>96850496just do it.
>>96857631But having a goal is the opposite of Chaotic.
>>96850496make him ambitious and ruthless.
>>96850496Play a character who hates being told what to do and always puts themselves before others.Walter White is chaotic evil, for example.
>>96850496Look up how some of the villians from other settings have done it and take notes. Clever Evil seek out weaknesses to exploit and go full on when they finally strike, showing no mercy or pity, destroying their target utterly. The best leave no trail back to themselves, preferably having the blame for the strike point to someone else.
>>96859787What was his fucking problem?
>>96860186He's 5 ft 11. God's cruelest trick.
>it's been however many years and people still haven't realized the alignment system from a game for teenage dorks who like sword and sorcery shit is not a cogent system in a philosophical context, and absolutely should not be treated as suchshiggy
>>96857354All elves tend towards Chaotic. Drow just tend towards Evil, too, while most other elves tend towards Good.
>>96860186He was born evil and looks like a penguin, but he would still be evil even if he didn't look like a penguin.
>>96859264No it isn't. Robin Hood is the example everyone uses for Chaotic Good and he has the goal of ousting corrupt clergy and tyrannical nobles.
>>96858023WARCHAD SIGHTED Whenever in doubt, just be Warduke
>>96860721He is chaotic because he goes against the law, not because he has a goal.
>>96850496As someone who always likes to play the party contrarian, the key is to be the butt of a joke once in a while. Everyone hates an edgelord who is both insufferable in character, and also goes out of his way to be disruptive to the GM and the campaign. But if your goal is play as Shadow the Hedgehog straight because it's funny how hard you clash thematically with the others, you'll quickly become the table's favorite. You don't have to be quirky either to pull it off, being exceptionally merciless, motivated entirely by money, using weapons or tactics that cause as much collateral and unnecessary damage as possible, or believing in outlandishly wrong ideals like total Conquest of everyone who isn't you, are all incredibly evil acts, but become funnier if the baseline is genuine acts of good. For an example, look to the Skeksis from the Dark Crystal. These bird people are so irredeemably evil in every possible way, it loops around to being funny compared to the Gelflings of the world, you may even end up rooting for them, just to see what other heinous, unforgiveable act they'll commit next. >TLDR: CE only works if the party is majority good to give you a springboard to work from
Evil is inherently cartoonishly petty and stupid. I'm not sure what people expect.
>>96860260Morality is an objective concept. Sorry your brain hasn't evolved enough to grasp this very simple truth.
>>96850496>Chaotic Evil without making your character cartoonishly petty and stupidWhy would I do that?
>>96850496Prioritize yourself both immediately and in long term, take shortcuts for your goals whenever it's feasible and the risk is calculated. To avoid being annoying and antagonistic to your group consider them as your "friends" in an utilitarian sense but also as irreplaceable tools (as in you don't want your favorite tool to break, get dirty or be lost), just think of them as unbearable naive and take courses of action for their "best interest".
>>96856677The only reason he didn't do just that was because he thought his odds of actually getting convicted were extremely low. He lost his shit at his legal team because they convinced him he wasn't going to get any kind of time.
>>96850496It's pretty clear from this thread you can't be chaotic evil and functional because autists will just say that is CN or NE since you aren't just being a baby stomping monster or some shit.
>>96854750Bruh restraint and pragmatism are not chaotic. Those are orderly traits. Impulsiveness, and a lack decision making are traits of chaos.On the whole chaotic anything is best left to NPC's. It fucking obnoxious. Neutral evil and lawful evil yes anyone smarter than a half wit should be able to make compatible with a normal party >>96855031Nobody ever ever actually writes drow as chaotic evil honestly mostly lawful evil.
>>96855031>>96860600>>96864519
>How do you play D&D without making your character cartoonishly petty and stupid?
>>96850842This is more neutral evil though.Neutral Evil is the scary kind because they can and will fake being normal/good when necessary to further their evil goals.Chaotic evil characters by definitin don't give a shit about what you think, let alone what the laws dictate so the cringe is pre-programmed.
>>96864519The chaos/law axis has almost nothing to do with personal traits like restraint, pragmatism or whatever. This makes for a very narrow view of the kind of characters you can play with each alignments.It's actually way closer to political beliefs than anything else.A chaotic character just don't want to be told what to do or follow rules. That's what makes them chaotic, you have no idea what they will do next because they do not subject themselves to social norms and laws. It certainly makes it harder for them to organize in big numbers, but it can happen through fear and or respect of an individual, or a pyramidal organization based on strength.Chaotic characters are akin to anarchists and libertarians I guess.
>>96850496By pursuing rational self interest in its purest form.
just have fun
>>96865471This. My last Chaotic Evil character was a terrorist who worked for a lawful corporation. He would be superficially charming and obeys his bosses but the moment he could get away with advancing his political agenda he just did it. Even if it meant assassinating a princess out of the blue because she just so happened to be by herself.
>>96866045>without making your character cartoonishly petty and stupid?read nigga read
>>96851169>that guy is Lawful Neutral.He literally pings as evil from a supernatural detect alignment ability
>>96850496>doesnt care about laws, the natural or political order or social conventions>has a cruel, inhuman view of the world and is willing to lie, cheat murder and steal to accomplish his goalsThere.
>>96866240I read it and I stand by my point, what's the point of being chaotic evil if you're not going to enjoy it?
>>96861068Right, so having a goal isn't the opposite of chaotic, like I said. Are you stupid or something?
Post media with chaotic evil protagonists.
