Has anyone played the mtg archenemy format? What's your experience with it?Do the scheme cards tilt things in favor of the archenemy, or does fighting 3 other players outweigh that.
>>96854041I personally would imagine that it depends on what scheme cards you use.Dropping something like a turn 1 planeswalker or commander even if they are normally over costed.
whoops forgot pic .https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/335/i-am-never-alone
There's not really many schemes that strike me as outright bad, but a lot of them seem meh in comparison to others.Compare one of the previous schemes to this one and think about which would make the most difference if played turn 1.
Am I the only one who’s interested in this format?
>>96856358>We tried Archenemy a few times, and it was pretty swingy. Either he'd rush out ahead, neuter a player or two, and then stomp who was left, or the cards/schemes wouldn't go his way and he'd get pulped.>I don't think I'll ever play the format again, but I do appreciate how happy it made my one friend and how much shouting happened during the games. It was kind of fun playing a format that encouraged someone to really just farm all the hate he could, rather than the more passive aggressive business that flows like an undercurrent in most magic formatsThey made a new variant of the format where all the hero side shares a life total, so you can't take a player out early. both teams have 60 life.https://mtg.wiki/page/Archenemy_(format)#Archenemy_Commanderit also reduced the number of schemes you need in your deck to 10, and made it singleton as well.anyways, I never managed to play this myself, but my theory is that you could make it less swingy if you swap out certain schemes. This would make it rather biased in favor of the archenemy. There's a lot of effects that would let you do something like cheat out a turn 1 blightsteel colossus.https://scryfall.com/card/oarc/21%E2%98%85/introductions-are-in-order
>>96856697https://scryfall.com/card/oe01/16%E2%98%85/a-reckoning-approaches
https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/334/i-am-duskmourn
>>96856697>>96856707>>96856708This one can also steal opponents stuff:https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/364/your-mistake-is-my-triumph
https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/349/no-secret-is-hidden-from-meThis one can also cheat big stuff into play turn 1. But it requires a little more luck
There's other schemes that give you free spells, like this one, but it requires you to have 6 lands out so its not going to be able to trigger turn 1:https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/352/power-without-equal
https://scryfall.com/card/dsc/357/time-bends-to-my-willThis card deserves special mention because it could probably go in every single scheme deck. It makes them more consistent because it thins out the scheme deck.You skip the untap step of the extra turn, but you still draw another card and play another scheme.
>>96859831https://scryfall.com/card/oarc/1%E2%98%85/all-in-good-timeThere's another scheme card that gives you an extra turn, But this one doesn't let you set a scheme in motion that turn.
>>96856697Similar experiences.It almost never feels close.Either the archenemy gets way too much early momentum and stomps everyone, or he doesn't, and gets drowned in cards and effects. My spitball solution, would be to bracket some effects out to the archenemy based on life total, so the archenemy starts a little weaker, but gets stronger as the game progresses, combating both the early stomps, and scheme bricks where he just dies. Maybe the Archenemy doesn't get ANY schemes at first, maybe just extra draws/drops to build a bit of momentum in the face of opponents, and the schemes come a bit later?That feels gameable, and would kinda encourage the Archenemy to play life burn... but hey, Black is probably the color most people are gonna think of when it comes to Archenemy anyways.
>>96854041No. If the 3 player side is decent and playing decent decks, you're fucked as the arch-enemy. Especially if one player is running blue. >>96856697>Archenemy_CommanderCommander is not mtg. The thing that many players don't understand about EDH, a mistake you're making right now if you think EDH is magic, EDH is not magic. It's not even really a game. Magic, as fucked as it is, is still a game. The objective is primarily still a 1v1 duel which one can win. EDH is not this. EDH is more like DnD. Only with DnD and other rpgs there's a lot of work involved. You need to DM, you need to spend time thinking up the character, you need to crunch numbers at every level, you need to have the story weaved for you. Nowadays EDH is a bastardized combination of magic and DnD. But for people too weak to play both. Just think about it rationally. You don't need a gym. You don't need a setting. You don't need story telling. You don't need math. You "make" a character that expresses itself by making an EDH deck. You're not actually playing against three other people. You just talk with them for a couple hours. Nobody loses. When someone wins the game, "hey man, good game, that was fun haha. lets go play a game, there's no real losing, anything can happen haha!" It always just goes like that. There are no real stakes so no feelings can get hurt by anything happening within the game are dependent on player skill. Just social bullshit. You get to "play magic" without the risk of any actual competition. You get to "play DnD" without any of the work or world-building or investment. EDH is for the critical role crowd. People who are too stupid and soft to get at anything real and just want to lash onto an entrance to fill a void in their own personal character cause they are shallow egotists.
>>96860193>Commander is not mtgThe archenemy commander variant is still 1 vs 3, like the regular archenemy format.
>>96860193>No. If the 3 player side is decent and playing decent decks, you're fucked as the arch-enemy. Especially if one player is running blue.I suspect it might not be enough to be a decent deck if they're running stronger scheme cards.The archenemy can create big threats before you even have land out, so my guess is you need free removal, or a specialized deck. Like these: https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/92/force-of-despairhttps://scryfall.com/card/csp/19/sunscourhttps://scryfall.com/card/tsr/87/snapbackhttps://scryfall.com/card/mh2/32/solitudeA lot of the schemes don't even count as casting the spell so stuff like the various free counter spells may not always work:https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/50/force-of-negationhttps://scryfall.com/card/dmr/50/force-of-willhttps://scryfall.com/card/cmm/80/commandeerI don't know how common these spells are in most decks though.You can also use stuff like stifle to counter schemes (it's a triggered ability), but idk if most people are going to run that. And the archenemy actually goes first so that won't work turn 1.
>>96854041I played it when it was a new format. My main takeaways about the format are:>1 vs 3 is the sweet spot>It works best if all of the decks are around the same power level>If the 3 fighting the 1 have a ton of disruption between them, it breaks down. No amount of scheming will win you the action economy against three other players holding up hard removal and counterspell options that they can regularly draw replacements for.
Others have said it ITT, but it's a cool idea that just doesn't work with how magic is actually played. Spell-based combo decks on the team really make things break down. Singleton non-tuned scheme deck with EDH is probably the best way to do it.
>>96862316That picture isn't actually something you can do in archenemy.you can only have 2 of the same schemes in your deck in the original format and you had a 20 scheme minimum. The edh variant changed that to singleton and 10 scheme minimumAnd that nissa card would just die instantly because she would enter with 0 loyalty counters.
>>96862346I know, I just wanted to take a funny pictureSome of the schemes have cool designs, but if you want to build around them you really need to treat it like a board game and keep all the decks around the same power level and generally similar fair-magic gameplans.
>>96854041The premade archenemy products (not the first release, but like the Bolas one) are the best. This is because those things are tuned, which gets over the biggest problem that the format has: no deck is too strong for the format to hold up under, and each deck is balanced.In a similar fashion, if you want to play archenemy with more customization, it's very much a matter of intentional deckbuilding and good faith. You HAVE to commit to playing Magic without being a tryhard, and you HAVE to work with your friends to make sure your decks are around equal.
>>96862346Actually, a "deck" with a bunch of 1-of low-to-medium power Planeswalkers, no lands, and 20 PERHAPS YOU'VE MET MY COHORT could be a neat "challenge deck". Not sure if it would be worth replaying much but I'd try it once. Maybe if you want to actually deckbuild with schemes you need to lean into gimmicks.
>>96862430As someone who has played against superfriends before, on tempo, it's a huge attrition battle. MAYBE three people could manage, but they really might not be able to. Especially since the archenemy would choose whichever planeswalker they want each time. Even pretty tame ones will start to pile their effects up.
There's also the supervillain rumble variant where everyone gets a scheme deck.
>>96862430>Actually, a "deck" with a bunch of 1-of low-to-medium power Planeswalkers, no lands, and 20 PERHAPS YOU'VE MET MY COHORT could be a neat "challenge deck". Not sure if it would be worth replaying much but I'd try it once. >>96862519What sort of planeswalkers did you have in mind?A lot of what makes planeswalkers powerful or not is their manacost. Even the less played become powerful if you get them for freeAnd a lot of them don't actually do anything without other cards.
>>96862411i suspect its very easy to break the archenemy decks
Anyone ever try it where the team has something like Standard or Modern decks and the archenemy deck has Power 9 and the like? That's the version I've always wanted to try. 3x strong Pauper decks vs. a kitted out Tinker-Time Vault-Key cancer.
>>96867977>That's the version I've always wanted to try. 3x strong Pauper decks vs. a kitted out Tinker-Time Vault-Key cancer.seems like that would result in a stomp
>>96862519>As someone who has played against superfriends before, on tempo, it's a huge attrition battle. MAYBE three people could manage, but they really might not be able to. Especially since the archenemy would choose whichever planeswalker they want each time. Even pretty tame ones will start to pile their effects up.I wonder if one could pull off some kinda planeswalker hate deck:https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/124/flame-blitz
