>everything is considered unoriginal or boring now>everything gets pirated>people seethe if you use AI art, then pirate your PDF anyway>if your PDF doesn't have art, they refuse to buy it>if your art is shit, they won't buy it>they will complain that WotC material is shit, but still pay 60 dollars for it>if you make stuff for 5e, people say you are low-effort / unoriginal, even though hardly anyone buys stuff that isn't made for 5e>people will buy the most boring shit possible from their favorite YouTuber to "support the content" of some lisp-ridden fuck droning on for 45 minutes, when it's unoriginal slopIt just feels like there is no point to throwing your hat into the ring anymore. People are so unbelievably entitled that it feels like it's not even worth trying. And of course I understand that I am not entitled to success. I have already had some success, and I am grateful for that.
It was never really worth doing it as anything other than a hobby.
>>96880851yeah, there is.Homebrewing and Homebrew as a concept was made to be enjoyed by you and your table,made for the specific taste and wants/needs of you and your table.What we have today with commercial homebrews is more like small craft brews, made for enthusiasts but ultimately made for no one in particular.Drivethru RPG is to Tabletop RPG what The Nexus is to Video Games like TES V: Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas, etc.
>>96880851If you make some chud stuff you can probably find an audience. Everything mainstream is staffed by LGBTQ weirdos who've turned the entire market into some ugly rainbow colored noblebright omniblob. So if you hit a good aesthetic that rejects that, you can be the new cool thing.Not even saying this as a chud myself just tired of the saturation. It seems like corps have found how to milk sexual subcultures of their money but left all creativity behind.
>>96880851>doing it for profit>not for love of the hobby
>>96880851>everything is considered unoriginal or boring nowNothing was ever original, given how human ideas work, and boring is subject to the individual, not a state of being.Make a game based around what you have fun with, and play it.>everything gets piratedAnd?>people seethe if you use AI art, then pirate your PDF anywayTTRPGs aren't something to sell, and any product intended for sale shouldn't use shortcuts like AI art anyway.Put effort in your product, or don't fucking sell it, retard.>if your PDF doesn't have art, they refuse to buy it>if your art is shit, they won't buy itToo bad.Selling TTRPGs is a scam, anyway.>they will complain that WotC material is shit, but still pay 60 dollars for itThe opinions of slop-eating piggies can easily be, and should always be, ignored.>if you make stuff for 5e, people say you are low-effort / unoriginal, even though hardly anyone buys stuff that isn't made for 5eMaking shit for 5e is always low effort, given that it eventually always boils down to "rule 0, DM decides" regardless of what the group agrees to use.What slop-eating pigs buy is irrelevant.>people will buy the most boring shit possible from their favorite YouTuber to "support the content" of some lisp-ridden fuck droning on for 45 minutes, when it's unoriginal slopWhat slop-eating pigs buy is irrelevant.Also, quit hinging on some ephemeral "originality", because such a thing doesn't exist. Never has, never will, due to the inherently derivative nature of human ideas and creation.
>>96880851You're competing with people who do it for the love of the game. I'm afraid it's over for you.>>96881067Literally only 5e is this, and that is an optional marketing stunt. I've played 5e with belarusian ziggers, but you're "tired of the saturation" and you're "not a chud".You play no games. You have no group. You've never even entered your LGS. Go back.
>>96881250>Literally only 5e is thisVampire, too. And the Star Wars RPGs. And even WFRP.>You play no games. You have no group. You've never even entered your LGS. Go back.You sound mad. Sorry that you enjoy the noblebright gayfest. Some of us don't even if we have no problem with gays in principle.
>>96880851I hate nihilism and I especially hate the 4chan flavour of nihilism.
>>96881067Personally I like brutal settings with all kinds of awfulness, because that makes my players' heroism shine all the brighter. Heroism is good but it has to be worth something.I also don't play 5e anymore, mostly OSR with a bit of 3.5t. one of those LGBT weirdos
>>96880851Don't do anything, nothing has a point anymore, nothing ever did, it's best to an hero and spare yourself the misery.or do whatever feels better instead of listening to random faggots online
>>96881411Vampire has always been a game for faggots.I wasn't aware the other two were still alive. But I concede, maybe there's five woke games, including Daggerheart. Whatever will you do? Bitch about the blue haired zillenials ruining your warhammy?
>>96881197>humans implying antropocentrism has any value whatsoever>then wondering why they're considered the vatniks of the galaxy
>>96880851>Is there any point to creating /tg/ shit anymore?Of course there i-->7/8 of the complaints are about moneyThere was never any point to you being in this hobby in the first place.
Making OGL content has always been a sucker's game, and it just happened that this time around there happened to be a sweetspot where you could make some actual money doing it.But seriously, I want you to just stop and realize something: the OGL does not exist for your benefit. That's, at best, an accidental positive. The OGL exists so WotC can have their fans make content for them. When WotC originally planned it for 3.0, they thought that it was basically just going to let them offload the relatively low margin task of making adventures onto 3rd parties. And whoops, a bunch of third parties instead started writing your supplements for you. Basically all of them sucked, almost none of them made money, but they sure did flood store shelves.And the only lesson wotc took from that were1. your idiot fans will make shit for you, for free.2. you gotta find a way to make some cash off that.For #1, they realized just having some kind of license framework was a good thing to have. No version of D&D since 3.0 hasn't had some kind of licenseFor #2, they've tried a bunch of ways to fix the fact that they didn't get paid during the 3.x era. Attempt 1? GSL. Bad license, sucked, literally made companies make their own RPGs rather than continue to publish 3rd party. Attempt 2? DM's guild. WotC just gets a cut of all your book sales. Good call wotc. Attempt 3? OGL updates that lead to the backlash. Basically trying to run the GSL playbook again. Not smart.Also, the captcha gets it.
>>96881067>Everything mainstreamIs mainstream because it's appealing to the wider audience, every new game that comes out and does what you suggest just drowns in a see of the same thing because beyond the mainstream thing no one else really does it.
>>96880890I agree but it's partly a pride thing to say you "made it." And in a way, I have made it. Some of you might know me. But it's jsut frustrating. I have no hate for artists, but these people who refuse to pay for a pdf then complain it doesn't have art, is infuriating. Is art great? Yes. But I've used lots of game material that didn't have art. >>96880964Good point. And I rejected it for years. Then I found some small success creating RPG content. I think "for no one" implies that everyone has enough of a set personality for something to be "for" them. A lot of people are basically tabula rasa and are very influenced.by published RPG material they see. And that's fine. I had a strong imagination, but also was shaped by early RPG adventures I played or ran.
>>96881110>>doing it for profit>>not for love of the hobbyI agree with you. And actually I missed out on a lot of potential profit by refusing to monetize what I was making. And that's fine. But that is also the rallying cry of people who don't pay for PDFs but then also squaw "WHY DOESNT THIS HAVE ART?" and if you complain they say "you should be doing it for the love of the hobby!"Well guess what bucko art isn't free. Anyone who contributes creatively gets shit on, told they should he grateful.for being shit on, then gets their work stolen by YouTubers (and it's ok, because they weren't selling it, so it's okay for parasites to steal their work and sell it for money).
>>96881694If people were to steal my homebrew and repost it elsewhere, I'd be chuffed. I write that stuff for my table and only ever post it on the off chance that someone finds something in it worth stealing. Besides, I didn't buy this $1.2 million dollar house off of my elfgames.
>>96881694>Well guess what bucko art isn't free.Art is free if you have soul and make it or know people who have soul and will make it
>>96881694People that think you shouldn't charge for your art and creations are cock sucker parasites and corpo drones. That faggot you're replying too is 100 percent a corpodrone. They defend the right of the company to sell you rehashed dogshit trash but is some humble /tg/ anon makes the next masterpiece with personal art then they start their crabs in a bucket dance talking shit. Never take crabs seriously.
>>96882329I mean, I'll mention something. Most people who are in the "art should be free" mindset are literal children. Not all of them. But most of them are just kids who literally don't have a concept of needing money to live.
>>96881067TTG is always behind the times.
>>96882341Children also need to learn to shut the fuck up and listen to their elders who have more experience.
>>96880851Oh man, not you too /tg/. I thought you wouldn't resort to create your own demons in order to justify your piece of shit contrarianism and increasing detachment to the hobby your board is supposed to represent, but well, I guess that's the prevalent board culture these days...Recapping all the reasons to be a not-games and remain pure and based>WotC has an irongrip on the TRPG industry and you can't play anything thats not DnD>every other system is unknown / obscure / outdated / too crunchy>every new system in the last 20 years is purely LGBTXYZSynchro+ non-sense and every game being run nowadays has at least one tranny>even if you were to somehow get a group of people to run a game thats not a rainbow-colored 5e clone, you will come across shitty players, weird fetishes, a lack of passion and commitment, etc, etc, you were born too late to experience TRUE tabletop experience>and if you are thinking of writing your own system and setting, nobody will care because nobody will ever use it and you are also not creative enough to draw / imagine so, give up on that front as wellI think that's about it. Remain no-games, Anons. Report games in your local area. Do not play anything on a table that's not poker or rock, papers, scissors.
>>96881411Exalted would've been a better example but nobody on /tg/ outside the designated general seems to be aware of Onyx Path products other than Mage, Vampire and Beast (for mocking it) anymore.
>>96882679>Do not play anything on a table that's not poker or rock, papers, scissors.GoCHAD here, Chessfriends are also welcome.
>>96882679>and you can't play anything thats not DnDyou added this as a strawman while listing off a bunch of objective facts. Impressive shitpost.
>>96882738Ah, I stopped reading too soon, there were further strawmen added on afterwards. OP is still right and >>96882679 will never be a woman.
>>96882738Not a strawman when it's true, troon.
>>96882703Never fear no-games, I have something for chess as well>too complex, like how do you even start? there is no entry level and you will get matched with some boomer who has been playing chess since he was 10>if you play IRL, you will get fucked by a veteran. if you play online, you will get fucked by some russian / chink>chess is old as shit and has been solved, there's no creativity, no mastery, just remember the same moves over and over againNo more chess
Yeah keep up your falseflagging samefagging nigga. I'm out.
>>96881197>>96880851You can't even call a TTRPG class piracy ffs.
>>96881197>and any product intended for sale shouldn't use shortcuts like AI art anyway.>Put effort in your product, or don't fucking sell it, retard.This is the entitled mindset I hate. I create value by writing a 40 page document, and I'm expected to pay 400 dollars MINIMUM for art to fill it out, when I likely will never make that much money from selling it. But my value i contribute writing the actual material doesn't matter. It only matters that I paid some tumblr tranny to add art to it. The RPG material is irrelevant. People want you to take all the risk just to put something out there. And then they just ignore it. >wwwell it's up to you to take the riskIt wouldn't be so much a risk if you people didn't have a stick up your ass about things that are borderline irrelevant.
>>96882699>Onyx PathYeah I mean Onyx Path is one of those studios filled with lgbtq staff and pandering to that community by watering down all the IPs they have, so I didn't feel the need to mention more than one of their games.
>>96881988>art you do yourself is soulOnly if it's good.
>>96880851Hobbies aren't supposed to be commercial.
>>96881557He didn't say anything about anthropocentrism.
>>96883055If you don't expect to make even 400 dollars from your product, your product is worthless, and will not benefit anyone by existing.
>>96883142I don't expect to make anything when one guy will share the pdf here and everyone will download it and not give a fuck. I wouldn't care about piracy if they didn't expect me to spend my own money just to get pirated. Even Kickstarter isn't a solution cause if you don't have flashy art to promote your kickstarter then nobody will want it.
>>96883116>Hobbies aren't supposed to be commercial.[CITATION NEEDED]Yeah I made stuff for free on this board for over a decade. Stuff people liked. Even saw it reshared. And you know what? Some YouTuber stole it for shekels. So I'm sorry if I want to make some shekels of my own.
>>96883178Cry me a river faggot
>>96883183Why /tg/ died: the post
>>96883202Yeah, because of you :)
>>96883204Cause I stopped making free shit for dysgenic TTS youtubers to sell for money? Yeah no. Sorry for wanting to make money as well. Sorry it's only okay to make money by stealing other people's work.
>>96881067>milk sexual subcultures of their moneyDont try to pin this shit on us, literally noone is making actually gay games we would want and we're not the ones paying for them regardless. Its the lesbians in cartoons shit all over again. Does it do anything for me? No. Does it even do anything for lesbians? Not really. Its for straggots who want to have sanitized fortune cookie zero spice "gay" content which is totally unpallateable to the culture it claims to be from. That metaphor got stretched, but basically the shit you dont like is the panda express of gay media. We dont eat that shit either, leave me out of it
>>96883262>That metaphor got stretched,Yeah like your faggot asshole did tonight. Start bullying your fellow queers and use your gay identity to actually help the hobby. You actually have the social leversge to make an impact.
>>96880851>anti-piracy>pro-ai>obsessed with acquiring sheckelsyou are not the kind of person we'd want to play a game from.
>>96883327I fucking wish it did. What exactly do you want me to do here though? Start an absolutely flaming youtube gayming channel? Get a bunch of fags together and force them to learn gurps? If i had the charisma for that i wouldnt be posting here. Best i can do is release my hyperautistic manifesto of an RPG, but at this rate its going to need another 10 years of development at least before anyone would take it seriously. Hell i work so much i dont even get to play other people's games any more.
>>96883337>Pto AI artNever said that. >anti piracyA little bit but not really. >bro just release your hard work for free so some YouTuber can steal it and sell it for moneyNo thanks>not the kind of person we'd want to play a game fromThere's a slight chance you already have if you're not an election tourist (you probably are).
>>96883388>Never said that.Yet your entire objection to using AI art was people seething about it, not an independent moral stance against it. That would indicate you aren't doing because its immoral, but because you believe it would bite you in the ass socially.
AI rocks.
>>96880851make more for the /lgbt/ community
>>96883055>I'm expected to pay 400 dollars MINIMUM for art to fill it outWhy?The title of the thread is about the point of creating /tg/ shit.Create the game you want and play it; that costs nothing.>I likely will never make that much money from selling it.So what?The point of /tg/ shit is to play, not profiteer from.
>>96883202>thread subject: "is creating /tg/ shit worth it?">ITT: "MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY REEEEEEEEEEE"Kill yourself, grifter.
>>96880851Nah, the hobbyist era of the internet is long dead. If you have genuine talent and can create a good system there's zero reason to post it on here when you could just try to hock it on RPG discords and get an actual potential audience.
>>96883504Support for art is also probably the only way we'll keep most of society employed 10 years from now
Patrick Stuart made some highly recommended and probably profitable generic/OSR adventures and supplements solely with his own free art style. And that art was amateur at best.You don’t need $40 or $400 for 40 pages of consistent and thematic art to bolster your writing.
>>96883601You probably don’t need an illustration per page either.
>>96883262>but basically the shit you dont like is the panda express of gay mediaYeah but it's also the representation you've fought so hard to achieve :^) Vampire, for example, had edgy fag shit it in from the start but that wasn't good enough so now we've all got to deal with milquetoast corporate lgbt shit in the game we all used to enjoy.Normies are normies whether they're straight or gay normies. But right now we're dealing with an overwhelming amount of lgbt normie saturation. It's like Disney adult rainbow flag marketable homosexuality and it's so cringe to everyone, but it makes tons of money from transient nerds who have adopted our identity as a phase.
>>96880851Do it for fun
>>96880851>everything is considered unoriginal or boring nowCreative spark, project created with love.. cannot be dismissed. Even if the elements are present elsewhere, or the story is cliche - the presentation will reinvigorate it. >everything gets piratedMany pirates purchase the product down the line.>people seethe if you use AI artFor good reason. I have yet to see a single commercial product made by AI that I want to look at. 99% of it is horrible slop that is spammed to flood the internet with, though there are some (rare) quality pieces as well. >if your art is shit, they won't buy itSlay the Spire, Moomin, Tolkien... Oh wait, amateur =/= shit>they will complain that WotC material is shit, but still pay 60 dollars for itSounds like they have yet to find a decent alternative so they have to make do. >if you make stuff for 5e, people say you are low-effort / unoriginal, even though hardly anyone buys stuff that isn't made for 5eDo something else. See if it sells. Promote it well, though.
>>96883622WhatThe representation we fight for was to counteract the complete lack of control we have over our own public image. We're 2% of the population. We can be publically visible as much as we want but as individuals there simply arent enough of us to meaningfully counteract the scope of propaganda random schitzophrenics can spew on the internet. If every single one of us had 20 close friends we would only barely have enough people to let each straight person know exactly one gay personally, and that assumes every single one of us is sociable and high functioning. That and actually having media i can enjoy and relate to obviously, but i dont need straights to make gay shit for me, there's more than enough gays in the arts already. I just want that art not to be supressed by studios. Is that what i got though? Straight """allies""" handling our representation is a double edged sword, and the monkey's paw curled such that the studios are now drowning out good gay stuff with safe, corporate, performative virtue signalling. Vtm isnt on me either. As you say it was already gay, and also they did it to themselves by commenting on actual real world currently active genocides and getting their entire studio shut down for it. Noone asked them to self destruct, get sold and become cucked and corporate. As much as i agree and hate normies, there just arent that many gay normies to have that impact (and almost all bad lgbt content is bi's fault anyway)
>>96880851I use AI art in my PDFs and I've never had anyone say anything about it. I'd use artists if I didn't do monthly releases. Trying to manage 15-20 art commissions every month (and pay for them) as well as write a whole book every month is pretty impossible though. Just tweak with your generator until you get an art style that isn't immediately clockable as AI and go from there. Once you downscale most of this stuff to fit in a small textbox on a PDF it's really not that noticeable.
>>96880851>buy>buy>buy>buy>>/biz/ is that way, no one cares if you're commercially successful, either create things for your enjoyment or don't, counting on sales is gay.
>>96880851I've been mulling over why you've had such a hostile reaction to a mostly accurate post, OP, and I think I've worked it out.Yes, a lot of things now are unoriginal, but that's not a problem if you're actually creative. If anything, that's a bonus because people will notice your work stands out from the rest of the grey. So why would anyone be upset by this fact? Well, it suggests they're one of those uncreatives. They don't like that you've brought up their biggest failing.Yes, things get pirated a lot. I'm a complete no-games, not quite a secondary because I do actually create content for tabletop communities, but not the consumer audience. I don't buy anything myself, but I see work stolen constantly. PDFs shared freely, images taken (often by Chinese manufacturers) and ripped off to be sold as their own, content stolen by YouTubers for their own profit where they get a bot to read out your work without permission, etc., it's rampant. Why does that fact upset some here? They're parasites that don't pay for things, or are stealing content regularly for their own gain.Yes, AI art sucks. It's theft, big companies are stealing content from people to make themselves money, and then some talentless loser uses that generator to create your work in italics. People are rightly disgusted by this robotic separation of human creativity and produced art, especially when it's through avenues of theft and exploitation. This fact upsets those losers using AI to generate work they want to make money off of.You can see where this is obviously going. The number of weirdos posting that you're at fault to desiring monetary reward for your work, acting like you should indulge them for free, isn't surprising because on the internet you're more likely to encounter some uncreative, talentless, cheap loser who can't make anything himself, so shits on those who can and wants to prevent them reaching a level their thieving slop can't. They're psyoping you into not trying.
>>96880851>>96883929To continue this from your perspective, OP, I think you've run into a trap many of us have from time to time: using external issues to excuse your own lack of success. I don't mean it rudely, nobody really has control over success, but it's a common mistake we make; to protect our ego, we lash out and claim everything is shit. That way, it's really out of our hands.However, the biggest mistake isn't thinking your points are issues, it's not focusing on the main factor for failure: lack of visibility. I can't be bothered to find the post again, but someone here tried to claim something being mainstream therefore means it's good or popular, which is incorrect. Something being mainstream simply means it's the most visible.Lots of "popular" things are often low quality but are "popular" because whichever corporation backing it has paid to make sure it's in people's faces. People rarely go looking for products or content in any sort of meaningful or deep way, you'd be lucky if they scrolled beyond the 2nd page of results on any site, so what they do "find" are what's presented clearly and directly in front of them.So there's the risk you have to take. You create your content, you prepare it properly, and then you learn how to do marketing. Proper marketing. Paying for adverts, setting up official-looking websites, adding peripheral content, having your own YouTube channel, etc., anything to increase visibility. It's a massive gamble, you're putting up money you might not make back, but it's honestly the only route you can take.
>>96880851I still make Martial Arts styles for Exalted, just because I feel like it. Only for 1e and 2e though.
>>96880851I dunno if there ever was a point. Personally, I am compelled to worldbuild because I am probably fucking autistic or something. I don't even have the excuse of doing this for a game group because I don't have any people irl with whom to share this shit with, just people online and I have not made even a single cent out of this stuff.
>>96883947As someone who's commercially successful in the industry this is 100% correct. I see a lot of talented creators who genuinely make better things than myself but get a fraction of the attention because they don't know how to do marketing or are stubborn and refuse to pay for marketing, believing word of mouth is enough these days (still can be, but very very rarely).
>>96881988>Art is free if you have soul and make it or know people who have soul and will make itTake of an actual midwit retard>Hey buddy can you spend 40 hours doing 1 commission for me for my tableslop RPG I'm making. I can't pay you but I'd use AI otherwise. At least you have a SOULfaggot
>>96883947If you have to peddle RPG shit so hard you get mad over failing at it, you no longer have a hobby but a jeet-tier "job" like selling trinkets on a blanket on the street
>>96884227Any tips for how to get yourself more visible and where to put these ads anon? I really don't know where you can pay ads or where to advertise your own thing. Discord?
>>96884306Here's how I started>Meta (FB/Instagram) ads - $3000/mo>Microinfluencers (Youtube/Instagram shills) - $200-1000/mo>Shilling on /tg/ - $0/mo>Shilling on reddit - $0/moFor the latter you usually have to give something free in return for anyone to give a shit. Also helps with the first two as well but not essential. Giving people a sample of your work to ensure them that it's a quality worth paying for, versus the hundreds of other things on the market, with plenty of free alternatives.Find other creators around the same size as you as well, engage in cross promotions. Don't try go straight to the big fish because they won't want to work with you in a promotion that's extremely one-sided.And before you ask no I wasn't rich when I started. I emptied my fucking savings, quit my job and lived on a meagre income of <$1000/mo for almost a year before I started making a liveable income. I started selling RPG shit instead of buying a house. I'm not saying everyone should do the same, especially if you have kids or a mortgage or something. Especially in the day of AI with people churning out generic dogshit PDFs which have been conjured straight from ChatGPT's asshole. The industry is fucking brutal to get into, but if you have the opportunity to go for it and minimal responsibilities that might fall upon you if you fuck up (save for a waste of time and money), you should at least try. I for one am very grateful I will hopefully, never work a 9-5 office job again.
>>96884332Damn, did you really invest 3k a month in Meta ads? That's fucking brutal. But I appreciate the insights truly. If you don't mind me asking, do you have any advice regarding content/genre you make? Like, do people enjoy good writing and good art? An interesting setting? Or is just about releasing the latest 5E supplement slop? Is a good idea to experiment with horror or urban stuff for example? And do people enjoy PDFs enough or you have to rely on physical editions?
>>96884273
>>96884426can you really say "who are you talking to?" in one-and-a-half mouth flaps and have the other guy understand you?
>>96881988I hope you publish your content for free as well.
>>96884422>Like, do people enjoy good writing and good art?>An interesting setting? >Or is just about releasing the latest 5E supplement slop? As many anons in this thread have said, write what you want. What I write is literally just the homebrew world I made with my friends when we were teenagers, with their characters now generally big players in the world or NPCs/BBEGs that appear in modules. I don't think there's particularly anything interesting about my world, (though it's not cookie cutter) and for the purpose of the modules I leave it vague enough to allow a DM to create their own sandbox within it. Like drawing lineart and letting someone else fill and render it. I like to think my writing and narratives are good, but art definitely sells it at least from the perspective of what I see other people make. Games like "Steinhardt's Guide to the Eldritch Hunt" made a gorillion dollars despite their subclasses just being reskins of official WotC classes.>Is a good idea to experiment with horror or urban stuff for example?As the above, it's up to you. I've written horror campaigns/settings as well as a whole 18 session saga set in one city. Play to your own strengths and what you find fun. Just ensure that either way you're providing a hook to your narrative that makes players want to play it. Your campaign should essentially be something you could give in an elevator pitch to rope people to want to play it.>And do people enjoy PDFs enough or you have to rely on physical editions?We did a physical edition via Kickstarter once and though it raised $200,000 it was a fucking nightmare. Physical fulfilment sucks and it made me never want to do a Kickstarter again.The main things I find draw people in with my releases are>5-10 HQ battle maps made in-house for the campaign specifically>120+ page PDF (finishable in 2-4 sessions)>New Talent Tree/Subclass>Fully fleshed out city/hub area>10-20 statblocks>10-20 magic itemsThat's every month.
>>96883055Let me gues said "tumblr trannies" have reposted your request to pay them in exposure on some subreddit, and now that they all had a laugh at you, your bussy hurts?
>>96883178Which youtuber, and what have you made?
Reminder that many large brands have spawned from /tg/ and the only difference between those people and you is your deference for risk aversion.
>>96883628>funWhat's that?Money is all that matters.
>>96884621All the boards went 110% kike after the coof/k/ is just gun investments and Ukraine too
It does feel like the profit has been stripped from everything. EG in the 90's you had White Wolf, which made enough money to support multiple people, random passion projects, and an office space but now they've become a glorified print-on-demand service with books written by freelancers. TSR was willing to have fun and take risks too, with shit like Dragon Dice and Terror Trax. >>people seethe if you use AI art, then pirate your PDF anywayWhy not use public domain stuff? I've seen multiple turn of the century era games use Charles Dana Gibson art for instance.
>>96884446Someone come collect their broken bot, it's talking gibberish.
>>96884489Thanks for the detailed answer. I'm glad another anon is making his own thing coming from the bottom instead of daddy's kids with big IPs. I myself make art and write and have been looking for ways to reach more people since social media is brutal, so this could come in handy.
>>96884503[citation needed]
>>96881665It's understandable though. Consider: I have an entire rpg written out in 13yo's handwriting. Ignoring the fact that the game is absolute dogshit, which would you be more likely to buy:>a scanned version of the text, coffee spills and errors and all>an actually typed out docAnd then explain your reasoning.
>>96881988Found the leech
>>96880851Pretty much the entire board pirates anything and everythingDoubt it's a lot better for the average player
>>96883262Does anyone play Thirsty Sword Lesbians?
>>96883169That's because kickstarter and its ilk are actually gambling sites, and the preliminary art is like the starting odds of you being able to get shit done.In other words, you need to get a horse before you enter the race.
I really want the social network users to go back
>>96883345>Start an absolutely flaming youtube gayming channel? Get a bunch of fags together and force them to learn gurps?I'd watch it. Anything is better than milquetoast VA's and wannabe influencers
>>96883601Anon... Patrick Stuart is a celeb. A huge nerd celeb. That's like Henry Carville releasing a Witcher adventure, of course it's going to break bank.
>>96883929>OP complains>"stop complaining"It kinda sounds like OP is the uncreative one daysoo
>>96884040Same, I have actual novel's worth of drivel and I'm totally fine with it never being released. It's just fun for me and that's enough.
>>96883425No it's mostly a creative integrity reason. Actually, using art made by other people that I pay for, bothers me almost as much. No I don't really have an issue with AI art if others use it, but it's also not my project. To me, AI art is worse than just contracting an artist. But ideally I would make the art so I have full creative ownership of it. I brought it up because people just NEED their RPG product to have pretty pictures. Sure it's attention grabbing but they actually think if you didn't pay someone else to make art for your book, then it's not legit. Like there's a paywall for publishing RPG content. >>96883496No one is "profiteering" from TTRPGs. I worked out my hourly rate for my last published project and it was around one-eighth of my salary for my actual job. If that sounds like profiteering to you, you're retarded.
>>96883646>Do something else. See if it sells. Promote it well, though.Yeah but that's my point. People are cucking themselves by not publishing for 5e, yet people still have the nerve to complain about it.
>>96883682Any advice on doing this? I know one faggot (literal faggot) who isn't even a good artist but has an absolute hound nose for AI shit. It's insane. The problem is that nowadays these people will even call any decent looking art with a quirky style AI and use some dogshit online filter to "prove" it was. That's actually why I think some anons are right in this thread, amateur line art will at least not be accused of being AI.
>>96883947>>96883929No I've had some minor success. I haven't really failed yet, per se. Everything I've done has been met with decent sized audience and some stuff even still shared on /tg/. I'm a minorly successful online creator. I'd like to be more successful and create more, but it jsut feels like everyone is so rude it isn't worth it. But yeah marketing is something I need to learn about more. That's how Shadowdark got so successful after all.
>>96880851Daggerheart is starved for both frames, stories, and encounters/social NPCs. You can't find an easy niche in 5e, but there are other systems.
>>96884446Jim Carrey's mouth flaps are impressively non-average>>96884731I can understand you perfectly well>>96884489>>120+ page PDF (finishable in 2-4 sessions)WtfAre your players like speedrunners or something>That's every monthOkay you're definitely speedrunners
>>96884492No I never did that. I always would offer a perventage when I was truly broke, but that was over ten years ago. I haven't asked for an art commission in a long time. >>96884494Some well-known thieves.
>>96884728>Why not use public domain stuff? I've seen multiple turn of the century era games use Charles Dana Gibson art for instance.I have a bit but running out of that stuff. Haven't heard of him tho so I'll try it.
>>96884979>I always would offer a percentageOffering a percentage of a niche product from a no name author is nonprofessional and akin to asking for free stuff.>Some well-known thieves.So Neckbeardia has stolen your precious pasta?
>>96884963>I haven't really failed yet>I've had some minor success>But yeah marketing is something I need to learn about moreOh, you were larping about ever being a content creator. Never mind, then.
>>96883601>>96884886Patrick Stuart, not Stewart. Different people. One of them has only ever released OSR-adjacent shitscribbles, the other one was Jean-Luc Picard.
>>96885108lmao, my bad
>>96884040huh, that looks kinda like a cabal from destiny
>>96885246It is just a reworked version of my old design for this suit of armor. Im not familiar with destiny that game never interested in me. The actual main draw of inspiration for that armor design for me is the high metal armor from Monster Hunter.
>>96881611>Is mainstream because it's appealing to the wider audienceWROOOOOOOONGThings are mainstream because a media bigwig notices it and starts advertizing it. For example: mainstream modern movies don't have an audience and consistently bomb as a result, but they're still mainstream because everyone knows they exist."Mainstream" is not and never will be a standard of normie favorability, it's the name for something becoming the new target of corpo slop.
>>96883219nope you lose
>>96880851More people have access to the internet and piracy has been a huge stain on creative media across the board because of how common piracy is. The second you ban piracy and AI wholesale the sooner competition between creative mediums becomes tight again, which always yields to better products. People will seethe reading this, but it's true. Piracy has made everything worse off, and AI will be just as bad adding to the damage.
>>96886529Are you daft? Piracy is already illegal, you can't ban it any more than it has already been banned. The issue is that it is basically impossible to enforce anti-piracy laws en mass.
>>96883055Who told you that you have to pay 400 dollars? Where did you get that figure?
>>96886576We did when there was a push to have more oversight and control over the internet, but people chose more slop than gatekept control.
>>96886576Brother, it is at most a few pages of words. How the hell would you even protect that? I simple screenshot and all your passwords or firewalls are trash. Piracy doesn't hurt the game, honestly enough people will pay for the material if it is good. I bought rulebooks because it's a more professional product, but if I write a paragraph about a "gunslinger" or "crafting method," I'm not gonna bitch if someone remembers it and just verbally describes my process to any other number of people. WotC and any other game maker needs to realize the more they try to squeeze cash out of their games, the more annoyed fans will get.
>>96886593>We did when there was a push to have more oversight and control over the internetIf you actually want more controlled and restricted internet then you are a fucking faggot. Fuck you and fuck your authoritarian tendencies, the internet was at it's peak when it was nearly wholly uncontrolled wild west with countless little sites and no government oversight.
>>96886595WotC are jews, but the average person in 2025 is so fucking entitled to all forms of media that they actually get emotionally angry if they aren't able to steal media and call it anti-consumer if any attempt to fight against piracy is put in place. Piracy and the people who defend it are fucking parasites regardless if WotC and companies similar to them are kikes; it isn't a zero sum game.
>>96886616The internet has been one of the worst things to happen to humanity and we would be instantly better off if we cut the service out wholesale. Like I said, retards like you would seethe upon hearing the truth, but that doesn't change it.
>>96886651Kill yourself, wannabe tyrant.
>>96886694>Noooo, you're a tyrant if you deny me access to free shit I'm not entitled to!Thanks for proving my point.
>>96886710Yes you are, you fucking cunt. It is very simple, do you want to give governments more oversight over the internet or not. You clearly fall on the side of pls step on me daddy government with your excuses about combating piracy.Besides, the anti piracy rhetoric is nothing but media industry copium and gasslighting. Gabe Newell said it the best; "Piracy is almost always a service problem". If you provide the means of people paying for the stuff you produce, they will pay you if it is good enough. What the increased control you desire for would actually be used for is big corporations gaining even greater chokehold over any and all media people get to engage with. You are an useful idiot parroting Disney lobbyist rhetoric at best and a wannabe tyrant at worst.Again, fucking kill yourself.
I do it because my friends are great and seeing them happy makes me happy
>>96880851There's no point to creating anything, for anyone, about anything. Anything you create is going to be used as AI training data no matter what you do. Human creativity is dead, and good riddance.
>>96886758No, I'm on the side of, "blow the internet the fuck up wholesale." You know, like I said prior. And Gabe is a kike doing you over and making your consumer rights worse, even if he's a lesser of two evils (and both evils only exist because of the existence of piracy).
>>96886913Blowing up the internet wholesale just means that we return to the world where all the information people can access is controlled by a clique of kikes that own the media, you fucking retard. The best thing about the internet was and to some degree still is the way it gives every human that has access to it the opportunity to shout into the abyss and perhaps be heard, as well as hear out other voices beyond the control of some editorial body restricting who gets to say and what.
>>96886854I will simply refuse to consume anything made post-AI, it's that simple
>>96880851For what it’s worth, OP, even if you did have a point, I can’t help but think of you as a super whiny bitchy from how you type. So maybe those anons commenting on how you present your product had a point.Also, your bitching about piracy is if only because the kind of people that would pirate your shit to be cheapskates wouldn’t have paid for it to begin with just because you gatekept it from them, otherwise they’d just get a legitimate copy if they liked what they saw.
>>96886934And AI is strangling even that much out, even as Musk and his ilk do their part to silence those dissenters that still remain.
>>96886934Do you feel better knowing you're ruling class are retards with no way to stop them at the cost of all consumer sided power in a purely monitary social system, or is it better if more people remained ignorant of how incompetent our ruling class is while still holding buyer-end leverage to keep markets in check? Because those are your options.
>>96886951How are AI or that retard musk supposedly choking out free speech? If anything twitter is more free these days since musk bought it from what I gather, given that people just don't get banned for their opinions or political views there anymore. Though, I can't say from personal experience as I don't browse the political shit on twitter as it is geared towards rage bait engagement which I find tiresome.>>96886978I oppose any system where some fucker has the power to shut me up for my views and opinions, which is what a more controlled internet would inevetably lead up to. I am a free speech absolutist, the very foundation of any legitimate system has to stem from the ability of people to speak their mind freely. And yes, it is better if people know that we are ruled by fucking retards, as it delegitimizes and demystifies the power the political and financial elite class wields. Before the contemporary era, before the internet, that class of people was able to hide it's baseness behind the glamor and mystique of controlled media, but with the internet the reality that those people are at large, colossal morons could no longer really be hidden, especially with how many of them freely share their retardation with the rest of the world.
>>96884801One Page Rules is one of the biggest Patreons out there (and one of the biggest alternatives to GW) and OPRanon used to relentlessly shill it here for years before it exploded in popularity. There's a few other big ones but I just woke up and can't think of them off the top of my head.
>>96887020Cool, so you'd rather people know with no power to change as opposed to having less know with the power to change. You are a grade A fucking idiot.
>>96886463Good day sir!
>>96880851>Tourist has the realisation he doesn't belongIf only you animals figured that by 2018, instead 2024 and up...
>>96886529Utterly retarded take, as the people who won't pay for products won't pay for products regardless of whether its freely available or not.
>>96887077Fathomably untrue, and pro-piracy fags have been beating their chest on this mantra like their lives depend on it. And even still, denying them the ability to steal said content even if they wouldn't otherwise buy te product is still a net boon to honest consumers. You are nkt entitled to media simply because it exists, and I'm tired of faggots on the internet pretending otherwise.
>>96887049There was no power for the common people to change shit in the system that preceded the internet either you disengenious retard.
>>96887095Piracy being possible in a free internet is a lesser evil when compared to the totalitarian state overeach of the internet that would be needed to prevent piracy because that state overreach would be used for far more than just preventing piracy.
>>96887095>no uWell, I'M convinced.
>>96887095>You are nkt entitled to media simply because it exists, and I'm tired of faggots on the internet pretending otherwise.Bold of you to presume anyone would waste their time pirating your shit much less purchasing it, considering your attitude
>>96887102Yes there was, but you're obviously too young to understand that,A) People were already well aware of government incompetence without the existence of the internet, and it was people who had actually power to make change that knew (everyone ITT is a do nothing retard whose knowledge of how the system works means fuckall other than black pulling ourselves into making our own lives worse)B) The internet makes markets not give a rat fuck about small local communities since product is now pushed instantly across borderless lines over who has the most people, and who is willing to do tje work the cheapest. That means China and India has more say in what your country, local stores, and the place you personally work produces (assuming you aren't doubling down on being a parasite by being a neet), than your own local communities. The internet is the illusion of freedom at the cost of biting from the tree of knowledge with no means to do anything with that knowledge unless you're already integrated in the ruling class.
>>96887125You have me mistaken for OP, who is pushing for AI slop (which also heavily relies on the existence of the internet to even function at the most surface level) when I'm calling for a full on nuking of the internet as a whole. But that assumes you are able to parse more than two position in a discussion.
>>96887102funny how anti-piracy chuds like that zak smith douche all have a cripplingly low iq
>>96887135>A) People were already well aware of government incompetence without the existence of the internet, and it was people who had actually power to make change that knew (everyone ITT is a do nothing retard whose knowledge of how the system works means fuckall other than black pulling ourselves into making our own lives worse)Pure fucking delusion.People believed what media told them to believe, and traditional media was far more controlled and partisan than the internet has ever been. Either people believed the papers tied to political parties, or the shit owned by richfucks that often didn't even live in the nation. The notion that people somehow had more power over politics back in the day is just nonsensical.>B) The internet makes markets not give a rat fuck about small local communities since product is now pushed instantly across borderless lines over who has the most people, and who is willing to do tje work the cheapest. That means China and India has more say in what your country, local stores, and the place you personally work produces (assuming you aren't doubling down on being a parasite by being a neet), than your own local communities. The internet is the illusion of freedom at the cost of biting from the tree of knowledge with no means to do anything with that knowledge unless you're already integrated in the ruling class.That is not the result of the internet inherently but the result of global free trade, lowering of tarifs and general lack of regulation regarding companies outsourcing production overseas.
>>96884489Is this your own system or is this 5e supplemental content?
>>96887145Anti piracy sentiment is in general just low iq stance to take and the people who spout it are either just legitimately retarded or spout it because having more government overreach over the internet serves their financial or political ends.
>>96880851Making things because you have the urge to create and the capacity to follow though is worth it in and of itself. Anything after that, especially about hobbies like tg, is bonus. If you want to make a thing to make it and put it out into the world you'll be fine. If you want to try and make it your living its a different sort of problem and you're better off lurking to watch market trends a bit but there's not a lot of market here compared to other venues.
>>96887178Or because they're a shit-stirring robot. That's always an option, especially in this dump.
>>96887144I'm not taking back what I said, bitch
>>96887168>Pure fucking delusion.On your end, sure. Do you sincerely believe the internet "broke" any new happenings that weren't previously touched on? >That is not the result of the internet inherently but the result of global free trade,Which is entirely reliant on the internet to function.>lowering of tarifs and general lack of regulation regarding companies outsourcing production overseas.Which is far easier to accomplish when product moves into a digital format by the mere existence of the internet. Christ, you can even blame the cost of Sky rocketing home prices on the existence of the internet, because anyone with cash can just check Zillow and see every goddamn home for sale across the countey in mere minutes, meaning sellers no longer need to take their local communities in mind when putting it up. The internet has it's hands in EVERYTHING, and as a result has made shit worse for everyone else who isn't already a rich fuck going into it. You can't even properly punch out of work any.ore without your job harassing you off hours through email.
>>96886948>people that would pirate your shit to be cheapskates wouldn’t have paid for it to begin with just because you gatekept it from them, otherwise they’d just get a legitimate copy if they liked what they saw.LMAO that doesn't happen unless you have it in print. Otherwise if they already have the pdf then why bother? A smart writer makes a free quick start pdf. That's about the best you can do.
>>96886591Quotes I got for a fairly minimal amount of cover and interior art for a 40 page roleplaying game.
>>96887201>Do you sincerely believe the internet "broke" any new happenings that weren't previously touched on?It broke the monopoly on information and discourse control traditional media had, which is important enough to wholly justify it's existence and is a benefit to humanity because it limits the power of cencors and editors to control the free flow of human discourse and information.>Which is entirely reliant on the internet to function.So what? Free trade is also entirely reliant on governments not punishing companies for undercutting local workers via exporting their jobs, not pushing higher tarifs and so on. The internet is just one piece of the puzzle that makes global free trade possible.
>>96880964Good post.
>>96887233It isn't one piece, it is the entire mechanism for it's existence. Not surprising the push began the second the internet was about to be put into civilian use territory.
>>96887095>You are nkt entitled to media simply because it existsToo fucking bad. As long as data can be reduced to 0s and 1s, it's going to be pirated, whether you like it or not. Don't like it? Don't make something capable of being reduced to 0s and 1s. That's your option. Oh wait. People literally pirated theatre plays back in the 1600s by going to the show and writing down what the actors said. Guess there's no way to stop piracy after all, save by deleting human communication entirely. Information WILL be pirated and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Kys
>>96887253Globalization and free trade was well on it's way before internet became mainstream dipshit and stopping it can easily be done without touching internet at all as well. All government's would need to do is just implement policies that punish offshoring and importing of goods and support national industries.
>>96887271>deleting human communication entirely.proposition accepted
>>96887296Nice how you finally admit to being the wannabe tyrant you were correctly identified as earlier itt.
>>96887296I agree, we should all swear to never communicate ever again! Starting with (You).
>>96887285>All government's would need to do is just implement policies that punish offshoring and importing of goods and support national industries.That's retarded. People who ask for this never understand what they're asking for, i.e. basically CommunismWith globalization the guys who can make x cheap make x cheap, the guys who can make y cheap make y cheap, then you can put those together to make z and everyone profits. Without it you would just have x in stores and you're going to buy subsidized x and like it, comrade, because even if you wanted z, importing z is counterrevolutionary and forbidden
>>96887459National interest ought to triumph over the interests of the markets and thankfully in most sane nations still, the national governments do go out their way to protect key industries from the effects of globalization.
>>96887271Thanks for proving my point.
>>96884924the vast majority of TRPG buyers are not looking for rules, they're looking for a coffee table book. The vast majority of players already have a GM handling the rules for them. GMs who are interested in rules minutiae and who might be sophisticated enough to parse your supplement often are in the hobby for the joy of making the rules themselves as well. If you've got a prior reputation (from a blog, Youtube series, etc.) there's a trust relationship there that can make more amenable to people trying out your supplements sans art, but few are going to roll the dice on a random pickup on DriveThruRPG.
>>96887597If your argument centers around "if people would just..." then your point is both wrong and shit. People WON'T "just". People are going to continue pirating anything and everything they can, and everything and anything that is just *data* is pirateable. You'd best either get over it or suck start a shotgun, because no force in earth can stop information from being freely available.
d&d fags think they have "solved" all ideas. Worse than ai fags, same mentality of thinking all creativity is just synthesising ideas eg undead ninja aztecs.
>>96887489>National interest ought to triumph over the interests of the marketsAnd the good of the nation's citizens should triumph over both. Hurting your own people out of spite for the market is senseless tyranny.
>>96887717>there's a trust relationship there that can make more amenable to people trying out your supplements sans artI'm nearly completely disconnected from any real 'creative' space aside from lurking here and I hate this so much.Being adept at communication does not mean that someone is talented in any sort of field. The fact that people are forced into a smaller and narrower path to achieve success is lowering the quality of everything. Everything is being created by the most oversocialized people because they are the only people that have access to that outlet.
>>96880851 Just make what you want release it and ignore the group think mob. Simple as that.
>>96880890Correct.If you’re making any kind of content for anything other than your own use, you’re effectively participating in in-group autism with no reward and that is enough to satisfy anyone who has actual passion for it. The most cancerous effect the internet ever had on society was infecting us all with the idea that your hobby has to eventually be productive or lucrative. Centuries of people doing cool shit to pass the time watered down into trash in pursuit of other’s approval.
>>96888661>Everything is being created by the most oversocialized people because they are the only people that have access to that outlet.This has been the truth since time immemorial; in the past we just called it "patronage". CHA is not a dump stat in real life; the content of an idea only has a tangential impact on it's propagation.
Once in awhile, maybe you will feel the urgeTo break international copyright lawBy downloading MP3s from file-sharing sitesLike Morpheus, or Grokster, or LimeWire, or KazaaBut deep in your heart, you know the guilt would drive you madAnd the shame would leave a permanent scar'Cause you start out stealing songs, then you're robbing liquor storesAnd selling crack and running over school kids with your car
>>96888798Patronage was based on connections and talent. No one gave a fuck if creative, talented people, or inventors were socially stunted as long as they did their job well. Now it's based on connections and being an oversocialized blatherer.
>>96888951>Downloads a single page of a PDFWhy are you running over crackheads downtown?
>>96887145The best part is, it's the same faggot that thinks he's entitled to free art.
>>96884028Based, in my opinion. I’ve made a couple for Quixalted. I hope QE anon is doing well.
>>96884841I'm not going to say it's bad, but it has a relatively rigid class-based system, which I'm sure is based on archetypes from lesbian erotica, but I'm not familiar enough with lesbian erotica to appreciate either the archetypes or how TSL has tried to embody them in its classes.
>>96880851All of these issues immediately go away if you stop making stuff to sell. People used to "Homebrew" for this thing called "Fun" all the time.
>>96880851People are always going to nitpick and complain. Don't listen to what they say but what they actually do. Nevermind the bollocks.
>>96891307I already explained why I grew tired of releasing RPG homebrew for free.>>96892565Good point. The problem is that what they "do" is not pay for RPG material, then complain about the art in it, or lack thereof, when they didn't pay shit.
>>96893572If they aren't your customers, then why do you care? Are you that much of a narcissistic needy little pussy that the opinions of pirates actually concerns you?
>>96893572>releasing RPG homebrew for freeThe fuck do you mean, "releasing"? You just use it with your group.
>>96893572And it's been explained to you multiple times that the point of creating /tg/ material was never selling it for profit. If you've decided that you no longer care enough about the hobby for it to be rewarding in and of itself, that's fine, but it's not a case of there not being a point "anymore"--you've changed, not the hobby.
>>96880851I don't pirate anything with AI art, it's trash on par with early 00s CGI art
>>96893858Not everything I want to create is something my group is interested in.
>>96880890FPBP>>96880851It's not about the money OP. I do this because I like to play games set in worlds I made with characters I've created.I simply don't care about 5e, WotC, or any of that. I don't charge money to run games because they're between me & other people I know. Hearing people squawk on about what other people think is what makes this site, YouTube, everything suck so much. I really don't give a shit what other people think, if I need more art, less fluff, more originality, whatever. Also me not having a Twitter account at all does make me better than most people.
>>96880851Make the rules free and then sell a lot of merch. Adopt a GAAS model for TTRPG.
>>96880851There is no point in creating shit /tg/ specifically would like because everyone here is savvy enough to pirate. Market your shit to kids raised on tablets. They are so tech illiterate they can't figure out piracy. They don't even know how to fucking type.
>>96883337Leave, communist.
>>96880851>retarded faggot who hasn't even started scribbling the most basic concepts for his homebrew system is concerned he won't become a billionaire and dethrone WotCYou don't even have a group to play with, do you? Get your own shit in order and stop worrying about everyone else you pathetic waste of skin.
>>96894898Holy projection, Batman.
>>96884963>I'm a minorly successful online creator.Proof or it didn't happen.
>>96894909People with groups to playtest don't have these dickless concerns that OP is crying about because they are already getting what they want out of the act of creation when their friends play with them.
Remember when people used to make comics for /tg/?
>>96894967Sex!
>>96894967/tg/ doesn't make sense for that sort of thing anymore.
>>96887489What is so great about nations? Seems like we should have come up with a better organizing principle by now.
>>96896529We have not. Nation states are probably the largest "social" units in which humans can operate with any semblance of coherent unity and feeling of belonging because beyond that scope, the uniting factors and aligned interests become too divorced from the common man for our inherent tribalistic tendencies to really take into account for.There is a reason why most people are prone to aligning themselves with people who resemble themselves culturally, ethnically, linguistically and religiously. We are tribal apes and our circles of ingroups are built around kinship, starting from the imediate family outward.
>>96894928Unless what they want is commercial success... which is what OP made pretty clear he wants. Honestly, reading comprehension here is fucking abyssmal, I swear half of these tantrums start just because the idiot replying can't read what's said.
>>96880851OP I will be real with youCreative work has never been very profitable. If you've ever spoken to a comic artist, animator, musician, writer or are even aware of the situation in most of these markets you will find that outside of the cream of the cream people are barely making pennies unless they make niche stuff.The other TTRPG maker in this thread seems to know much about the market, I would suggest speaking to him and others in your field and other creatives. If you can get an artist who's on board with you you could probably get the art done cheaper (obviously you're gonna have to offer the person a percentage of whatever profits there are)Good luck
>>96880851Imagine if hobbies were engaged for fun, and not to make money off them...Oh, right, I forgot - faggots like you have no imagination at all and can only think about monetary profit out of something they aren't even doing in the first place.Find the nearest ditch, crawl into it and die.
>>96896775>Unless what they want is commercial successWhich is not something ypu get out of a hobby, you dumb cunt>b-but hobbyist are gonna buyYes, and?It's like you can't figure out the basic fact that those two are unrelated facts:If you obsess over cash, THEN SIT YOUR ASS AND WORK FOR IT. If you want to do creative stuff done, THEN SIT YOUR ASS AND DO IT.Whoever told you that there is money to be made on being creative, probably fleeced you already by some seminar for writers or similar shit.tl;dr ypu're a fucking retard, even greater than OP
>>96896542>t. so friendless and lonely, the only thing he can identify is an artificial notion of the greater tribe, the nationImagine not even speaking with your neighbours and colleagues, while being also a friendless loser, a kissless virgin and an all-around faggot that needs a fucking nation out of all things to feel that he belongs.I bet you also blame immigrants for your own personal shortcomings, too. Or is it trannies this time of the year?
>>96894967This was originally a drink for a Carribbean piracy game.Have the juices stored in a fridge, so they are cold when added. If making larger quantity of it ahead, keep it in fridge, too, and then toss a single ice-cube to a glass to keep it cold when served1 part white rum1 part Malibu1 part chilli and cinnamon licquor2 part mango Passoa (regular Passoa works too)3 parts of pineapple juice4 parts of banana juice1 shovel of iceStirr, serve in tall glassIt produce nice, sweet and fruity, but still spicy drink that removes your legs after two glasses of sipping what tastes like a harmless juice. The color usually comes off as either reddish banana or pale orange, depending on the type of licquor used for spicing. The chilli and cinnamon licquor is non-negotiable part of it, you must have the spicy flavour it adds, otherwise it's kind of blandt. former bartender
>>96880851>Be an outsider faggot>Don't participate in the related hobby on any fucking level>Get assblasted there is no money for you to make out of itConsider the noose
>>96880851>/biz/ struggling with the concept of non-profit activities and hobbiesAnd they say the 80s were the era of pure materialism and greed
It is always worth homebrewing both rules and content. It's as vital as actually playing and gamemastering.But you have to remember, the only assholes telling you your work is no good are the assholes right here on this board, who are by definition the lowest scum in the industry. They are going to shit and shit and shit on everything, regardless of media, subject, or quality.It's what they do. No use complaining, it's just the nature of this place and the fucking maggots who come here to shit all over themselves and each other.What you should do if you're serious about being a creator, as opposed, and I mean OPPOSED, to a critic or consumer, is never fucking bother with this pit of fucking whores, and go on to live your best life working for your own pleasure, and the pleasure of people who are capable of simple human joy instead of the ROTTEN SOUL POISONED BASTARDS who consume each other like rats and maggots at the bottom of a cesspool.
>>96897390>You can do no wrong and nobody can ever tell you that you fucked upAsk me how I know you're the only child of your parents and they helicoptered your entire life
>>96897110>Which is not something ypu get out of a hobby, you dumb cuntOh quick, somebody tell GW that they've made no money out of tabletop games, this fucking genius of a poster says so!Stop being a retard all your life, spastic.
>>96897116Nice strawman retard, what a convinient way of you just to ignore the larger trends of human behavior and try to make this discussion about personal qualities. There is a reason why shit like white flight and ethnic enclaves happen and it has everything to do with the tendency of humans to act in a very tribal fashion, often based on ethnic lines. You can ignore this reality all you want but it won't change this constant. >inb4 copium about muh racism and shit.I do not care, calling near universal human behavior racist won't stop it form happening.
>>96886529Delusional retard. If anything, IP laws are the thing that's bad
>>96897459>t. has nothing of value that he needs to protect from larger companies
>>96894967A different time.
>>96897453>what a convinient way of you just to ignore the larger trends of human behaviorYou mean interacting with people nearby to your location, occupation and family. along with residence, rather than the superficial notion of nationality?Yeah, I've noticed how it's convinient for you to ignore those, for you have nobody to talk to, and your "company" are random strangers online which you can then accuse of being weak sheeple for not seeing the bigger picture that only enlightened loner freaks as you can see.>There is a reason why shit like white flight and ethnic enclaves happenYeah, fags like you becoming butt buddies while online.But good for you. Actually you might get some real, human-to-human interaction with anyone.Also: what sort of failed NATION it takes to get those things going in the first place?
>>96881665>>96887251Thank you. Have a Watchwolf
>>96897453>Accuse people of strawman>Can't wrap his head around the fact the sheer idea of nation is an artificial construct designed to get fags like him to volunteer for their national armed forces and die for its ruling classThe funniest part is that nation and nationality are both inherently leftist inventions, created in equal parts by Enlightment era plhilosophers and French revolutionaries to get warm bodies for the grinder, but somehow, it became part of rightwing ethos to expuse how cool and awesome nations and nationalities are. Really makes you think about both sides gaslighting each other, while everyone else got trapped in the pointless factionalism.Like I give a fuck about some cunt living on the other side of an arbitrary defined piece of land that's "our" ancestral homes. My ancestral home is my fucking town. My family has roots here since at the very least 17th century, probably longer. That's my identity. Not some faggot living 300 km away telling me we're in some cultural and historical union, while forcing on me his own ideas and his own history, chiseled to fit into his narrative that means I should be subservent to him.Nationalism is a fucking poison, designed to destroy actual communities and impose artificial one, so you are loyal to a central aparatus of a country that claims you belong to it.Fuck that shit. A random border shift might suddenly make you live in a completely different reality, and maybe even nation, where you are suddenly an alien or outsider, despite you didn't move an inch. What sort of retarded system is that?
>>96897491Your blatant attempts at shifting this discussion towards personal qualities and thinly disgusied adhominems does not constitute any sort of argument in your favor.>>96897515Please, you do not need to educate me in the history of nation states and how the concept of nationalism rose to prominence. I'm well educated enough in the topic, which is why I actually recognize it as probably the upper limit of what people on average can view as their ingroup on any meaningful sense.And I made no claim about nationalism or nationstates being either left or right wing. Nation states emerged in response to both industrialization as well as the declining legitimacy of European aristocracies and it was means via which many peoples, including mine, were able to form a coherent unifying identity that allowed such groups to wrest themselves free of the multinational empires that had dominated our continent for centuries.Your understanding of what nationalism is, especially in the context of Europe is paper thin. It is not about lines on map, you god damn child, it is about ethnic, linguistic and cultural identies and commonalities. Nationalism is the ideological framework trough which people can actually protect their continued existence and soveriginity especially against larger more powerful nations and empires. Without nationalism, my people would probably have been wholly russified and gone like most other Finnic people have these days.
>>96897417GW isn't a hobbyist. It's a company with nearly half a century of business under their belt. You're not GW trying to make a new product. You're some faggot on an imageboard who is angry that he can't make money like GW can and you don't understand why.
>>96897571To add to this, the shit going on in palestine right now is what happens to people without a nation state to protect them, they get dominated and geonocided by another group of people who do posses such state and the capacity for violence that comes with it. Jews took that lesson to heart from WW2 and seem to be applying it to suit their own interests as we speak.The world is an arena where states struggle against one another, either covertly and trough diplomacy or trough violence, and the only means for peoples to have any say or even just protection in this struggle is if they have a nation state that looks out for their interests.
>>96897515>didn't know we 'ad a king
>>96897579>GW isn't a hobbyist.>It's a company with nearly half a century of business under their belt.And what about when they just started, and were working out of a house? Oh yeah, you're a retard that can't into temporal context.>You're not GW trying to make a new product.Maybe OP is? You've got this weird broken perspective where no one can possibly be the founder of anything, probably that temporal issue again.>You're some faggot on an imageboard who is angry that he can't make money like GW can and you don't understand why.I'm not OP, dumbass. Is this another of your mental problems rearing up again? Tell me, how would you feel if you hadn't had breakfast today?You're a fucking embarrassment.
>>96880851No point for you, NPC. KYS, our games do not exist to make money for you and your investors, we make then for the love of the game.
>/pol/tards derrail the threadHoly plague upon the board.
>>96897571>I actually recognize it as probably the upper limit of what people on average can view as their ingroup on any meaningful sense.Plandemic proved that the entire planet can be psyoped into working together. When the martians inevitably come for us we'll see a huge resurgence in Earth-centric pride and identity.
>>96897571There is such funny Polish saying: Hit the table, and culprit will cry out.Thanks for making it clear you only cared about shitposting about your politics, frogger
>>96897603>In a gang war, you can only be safe if you are a gang memberBack to your favella with you, Pablito
>>96897639The past is the past. You don't get to start your company in the different conditions that existed 40 years ago. You exist now. Either accept how things are now, or stop whining that you have to work hard for a chance to succeed where countless others have already worked harder and failed harder.
>>96897695The only thing the pandemic proved is the fragility of the world order that was built on free trade and just in time economics.>>96897705>nooo, you can't talk about politics, only I get to talk about politics.This entire thread has involved discussion about politics, dipshit.If you cannot actually engage with the arguments being presented without being a histronic shit and constantly trying to shift the argument, then maybe shut up. I posted a reaction image, would it have been any different had it been a spurdo instead of a pepe?>>96897721Newsflash, the entire history of the human race, can be boiled down to gangs of humans engaging in cycles of conflict and co-operation.We are no more evolved or enlightened than our cave man ancestors, the base psychology of humanity is still the same, the only thing different to us is the access to more information and higher quality of life that modern civilization provides.
>>96897749>The only thing the pandemic provedIf you cannot actually engage with the arguments being presented without being a histronic shit and constantly trying to shift the argument, then maybe shut up
>>96881067Chuds know that GURPS already solved TTRPGs and will never need anything else.
>>96897737>The past is the past. You exist now.Subhuman confirmed, I see why you're so salty at people being able to comprehend a long-term financial goal.
>>96894333>he doesn't expand his group's interestsPeople don't know if they'll like something until they try it.
>>96897773If you cannot actually engage with the arguments presented without basic reading comprehension and constantly trying to grab things out of context, then maybe shut up
>>96897773Oh, aren't you clever.Are petty gotchas the only thing you are capable of? Can you actually provide any actual counterargument to my position or is just snide shitflinging the only thing you can do?Besides, your claim about the pandemic making the world work together is just blatantly untrue. Even within nations, not to mention between nations the pandemic was full of conflict and at best begrudging co-operation. Here in Europe it was like pulling teeth to get the EU nations have even any degree of co-operation in their response to the pandemic beyond just restricting travel. Countries were outright fucking stealing vaccination shipments from one another.
>>96897749>Starved THIS badly for human attention and interactionI guess >>96897116 was right from the start.Here, grab a (You)
>>96897783Still yet to meet a gurpsfag who could explain how to play TYOV in gurps.
>>96897773Lmao it's like poetry. Takes skill to self-defeat so succinctly like that.
>>96897749>This entire thread has involved discussion about politicsNo, not really(You) did that. And people rightfully mocked you for doing it.Which somehow gave you the idea you are welcomed and should double down on it.
>>96897810>no, you cannot argue, you have to shut up because I say so.I didn't initiate this argument in the first place dipshit, I just responded to the histronic little shit that started screetching at me here. >>96897116If you don't want to engage in political discussion then don't fucking start it, especially if you can't actually emotionally handle it.
>>96897785Alright, so start a company and work hard for 40 years if you believe that this is only a matter of long-term goals, contrary to what you've already argued.
>>96897798>le hecking internal conflict!Dude... Not even families count then ig
>>96897794>>96897798>>96897844>Samefagging to feel less like a retard and claim online victory on an anonymous Tibetan tanka weaving forumDon't forget to take me for the anon you are "roasing" right now.
>>96897849Nice ignoring the entire discussion regarding politics of piracy that occurred earlier itt.
>>96897862Meds, now
>>96897862Am I being taken for a ride?
>>96897851>If you don't want to engage in political discussion then don't fucking start it,But you are the one who started it, faggot.On a board dedicated to traditional games.In a thread about hobby being a non-profit thing.And here you are, masturbating to nationalism, because you think this is edgy or some other shit.Hire a hooker and get laid already, at least you will stop being this fucking starved for human connection.
>>96897855>Alright, so start a company and work hard for 40 years if you believe that this is only a matter of long-term goalsAgain, I'm not OP. Do try to keep up, you idiotic fuck-knuckle.>contrary to what you've already arguedGo on, show me where I've done that.
>>96897871>>96897877>Here is me on incognito>Here is me on the regular modeCan't wait for the one from the phone ;)
>>96897886None of the people you're responding to, but that's not how 4chan works on incognito mode.
>>96897390>They are going to shit and shit and shit on everything, regardless of media, subject, or quality.Yes. But if you have two brain cells to rub together and skin that's thicker than tissue paper, you can sift through the shit and find the actual criticisms in there, things that people won't say elsewhere because "it's MEAN to criticize people". Will everything you get back be useful feedback? Not even remotely. But you will get people in there who are so incensed by the fact that you DARED to offend their eyeballs with such dreck that they'll actually lay out the reasons that they think it's dreck. Even then, you don't necessarily have to agree, but it's always worth actually thinking through legitimate criticism and making an active choice about whether or not to incorporate it.That is, if you want to improve, anyway. If you just want to jerk off onto the dry-erase grid, you're completely allowed to. But some of us want to even a modicum of pride in our work, and that means putting in the effort to make sure that it's something worthy of pride. Maybe I don't agree that a setting with races besides just humans is inherently inferior to a humans-only setting, but reading through those arguments--when cogently presented, anyway--and thinking about how someone reaches those conclusions can help me avoid certain pitfalls. I may prefer roll-over systems to roll-under, but engaging with someone's autism on that front can help me understand how to keep the math of my system in line with where I want it to be. And, sometimes, my work will have legitimate shortcomings that I don't see. If I ignore those, things stay as they are, which could be fine. But if I acknowledge and engage with them, I'll improve. The games that I run will improve, my players' experiences will improve, and our discussions about the changes in those games will cause the games that THEY run to improve, which will in turn improve my experiences as a player.
>>96897900Sure, buddy.
>>96897886That is from a phone dumbass, that's an android screenie format.Also I wasn't >roasing, nationanon really did fuck his own arse in one single post
>>96897910The last 50 post by /pol/tards are absolute proof that some mentally ill retards should never be taken seriously. Your shitty negative is nothing but that.
>>96897900Actually, I'm not even sure, so I'll double check. This is me posting from incognito mode. What the fuck is this 120 second countdown before I can even get a captcha?
>>96897878Read the chain of replies you petulant child. Everythign up to the point where you start chimping out about "muh nationalism bad" while flinging whatever pathetic and pointless insults you can think up at me, there was a discussion about economics that led to me just stating that we are not past nation states like the other anon I was replying to claimed we are.You are the one that started flinging shit over nationalism and then screetching and crying when I responded to you back.
>>96897900>>96897933Okay, now I'm back on normal browser, let's see what comes up.
>>96897868Since you clearly didn't get a clue, let me state it ourgitht, or else you might never figure it out:I don't give a flying shit about your polics.I do, however, give a shit over the fact you managed to derail already a so-so thread into a complete shitfest that circles around the fact you are a lonely freak that must stir shit up online just to have people talk to him.Which isn't even parasocial behaviour, that's just being regular pathetic.>b-but muh important politicsImportant to you.Get a clue, clowny
>>96897886>>96897940No, you're right, it doesn't actually keep the (You)s, but it did share the post cooldown period for some reason.
>>96897936Not the anon you are replying to and also not the anon you are thinking you are replying to, but let me give you another clue:More than one person mocked you here.Somehow, in your fucked-up head, you had a conversation with a single person.
I still say the martians are gonna unite us (inasmuch as one can unite any given system of its size)
>>96897900>>96897933>>96897940>>96897949>Being THIS fucking newNigga, this is a shit you learn after being here for less than a single week.
>>96897957I've been here since 2008, I've just never had to samefag before.
>>96897925>Will everything you get back be useful feedback? Not even remotely.I explicitly acknowledged that the overall quality of interactions on the site are poor. You have to filter out a lot of garbage, but constant forced positivity is even worse for the creative process. Without knowing where and how you've failed, you can't know how to improve.
>>96897957Only if you have the desire to samefag
>>96897961There is a solid chance you weren't BORN back in 2008
>>96897953Yes, yes, we've all read Watchmen.
>>96897964You can get this effect by simply posting from two different tabs opened at once for the same thread, another thing you would know if you were here longer than today
>>96897947If you didn't actually give a fuck about the politics being discussed, especially in such a placid way, you wouldn't have started flinging shit at a post that was like 6 hours old and then get even angried and more histronic when you got a response.Reread this post>>96896542What about it is so outrageous and offensive that it ilicits someone to start screetching like this >>96897116 For some reason you seem to be under the illusion that other people are obligated to just not respond with their own views when they are attacked, because that would "derail the thread"?>>96897952Good thing your mockery does not constitute an actual argument, and basically boils down to you just reeeing at me for posting things you do not like to read.
>>96897970I was thinking more The Dark Forest, but that works too actually>>96897974No you can't. It keeps user ID between tabs.
>>96897968Dude, I was already in college by 2008.
>>96897994if aliens invaded there would be absolute chaos. it would be less TDF and more The Leftovers
>>96898060A bunch of humans would probably try to side with the ayylmaos just to get an advantage over other humans. Aliens coming here and dividing and conquering humanity seems more likely than us joining into an united front against them.
>>96898060Maybe, but my point isn't necessarily about infrastructure but rather identity (and the cooperation born from that). Like, look at how people are already starting to treat clankers - if there was a robot revolution you'd absolutely get a huge push for humanity a species to work together in affected areas. The one common thing every human tribe has is that they can look up at the stars and see their place in the cosmos. That's a pretty powerful bond, even without an external threat to solidify it.
>>96898075Yeah but normies gonna norm. Lots of people don't pay taxes but the majority just follow the herd, and that supposedly still counts as counties working together.
>>96880851I make /tg/ shit because I enjoy it. First and foremost. I'm not trying to become the next D&D or whatever, I'm doing it because it gives me intellectual pleasure in making something. I also put it on DTRPG because some people might buy it (and they do, my first ever book sold 200+ copies).
>>96898128Of course, the majority just do whatever the rest of the group is doing. By dividing and conquering I was more referring to the way how historically conquerors, for example the Europeans when they colonized africa, took advantage of ethnic divisions between the people they conquered to their advantage.Essentially, I could pretty easily see ayy lmaos playing favorites with different human groups.
>>96880851>Mike Pondsmith is more interested working on Cyberpunk 2077 with CDPR than working on the tabletop with his sonGrim
>>96881694A) Why are you listening to other people?B) You can get art relatively cheap on Fiverr and formerly Artists & Clients.
>>96897883>Go on, show me where I've done that.>>96897639>And what about when they just started, and were working out of a house? Oh yeah, you're a retard that can't into temporal context.GW started in a different era, under different conditions, with different competition. When people give advice to OP right now, they are not worried about your pseudo-intellectual "temporal context" because you cannot tell someone to do something differently in the current day and age they exist in. No one could do what GW did right now because GW already exists and didn't have to compete with a GW-tier major company who had a 40 year head start. Your whole argument was>GW must not have made any money ever, because other anon said people can't get commercial success out of their hobbies!GW is not a hobbyist selling minis out of their bedroom, right now. They were a company back then and they they've been run run like a company for decades.To which you argued>what about GW when they were small?And the answer was that GW was once a small company in different time period, which cannot apply as advice to OP's butthurt faggotry. To which you tried to make this about "temporal context" (it's just called "context" you brainlet) as if it's a clever gotcha, and not retardedly beating around the bush.OP, as a hobbyist, cannot enter the market and make money as a hobbyist. Comparing OP to GW because GW was once small, but now isn't because they ran a large business for 40 years is retarded, not because a long-term financial goal is out of the question, but because a hobbyist cannot compete at that level without ceasing to be a hobbyist.
>>96886978You dumb fucking retard of course knowledge is better. Because it means eventually people will get sick of shit. Look at how mainstream anti-Semitism is becoming.
>>96887201Well, a big one was when one Anon reported that Epstein was hospitalized a good couple of hours before Big Media reported on it. Or the VTech shooter who posted on here. Or the football stadium bomber guy. Basically, anything that causes decentralization is good. Also you're a gubmint cocksucker, so I hope your mother gets cancer.
>>96887459>calling protectionism Communismholy shit you're an actual fucking know-nothing.
>reply to a random anon and call him a stupid retard>devolves into schizo samefag theory and 3 other anons arguing with each otherBest worst thread on /tg/ right now
>>96894967I would rather have no art than that kind of art.
>>96880851>Greedfag struggling with the concept of non-profit activities
>>96898179Okay, so you couldn't show where I argued against businesses being built up. I'll accept your concession on that.>Your whole argument was>>GW is not a hobbyist selling minis out of their bedroom, right now. BUT THEY WERE, YOU FUCKING DISHONEST RETARD. That's the point. You acting like nobody can ever start off small and end up making it big is because you quite literally cannot understand how the passage of time works, you subhuman brainlet cunt.Jesus Christ, at least try to seem like you know what you're talking about before shitposting.
>>96897968>2008 was 18 years ago>hiro is mismanaging this place for a decade
>>96898270Are you actually retarded? GW was an innovator AT THE TIME. It didn't need to worry about the market because there WAS NO MARKET. Same with D&D. Yes there were hobbyists but they weren't looking to make money. GW and Gygax said "No, we're going to take this product and we're going to spin it." and then they did and they made bank because NOBODY was competing with them! The same thing happened with Bill Gates and Windows. There was no competition to him. Basically it's "the early bird gets the worm" principle. Like if you could figure out an idea that nobody has done before like... I don't know because if I knew I'd make it. So let's say it's something fake and stupid like smartwatch integration with your character that measures player engagement based on heart rate. If you were to start selling that, you'd have no competition! And if you market it well, you would occupy that market niche and nobody could dislodge you from it, unless they'd come in with globalist money.
>>96898240I'd rather you died.
>>96898377What a passive way of saying that. Why are you some kind of beta pussy faggot, huh? Why can't you say "I wish I could kill you" or "I'd kill you if I had the chance" you fucking pussy ass bitch? Why you gotta be so fucking wimpy and passive about it? I spit on you and would kill you the moment you tried some shit IRL, faggot.
>>96897963What's forced positivity these days? Even shitholes like Reddit are overly negative and act like gossip outlets. People don't know positivity even if they hit on their faces. The anons at the beginning of the thread provided insightful positive advice to other people. Then a lot of tards came and shit up the thread. Because negative is way easier than being positive.
>>96898415Maybe you should head to Reddit, Anon.
>>96898408anyone got a QRD for this? I ain't readin that
>>96898361>Are you actually retarded?The sheer fucking irony of you asking that, you reeking spastic.>GW was an innovator AT THE TIME.I see why you're such a retard now! You've put GW on a pedestal and think they were "innovators", but you're just so fucking ignorant of their history that you don't know why you sound like a moron. No, they were late onto the scene, in fact they were importers for other businesses in tabletop games.So, now that you understand these hobbyists managed to create a business doing what they loved, you might now understand why you being a fucking retarded and claiming you can't make money out of a hobby, and that OP (and in fact no one) needs to listen to you piss and shit yourself over things you have no clue about. Okay, little buddy? You can fuck off and eat more shit now.
>>96880851>everything gets pirated This has always been true. Gary Fucking Gygax started running starweb when the creator stopped running it, and he handed around copies of it. Everything WotC has ever made has had pirates making copies- some copy shops would even kick you out if you were obviously copying a whole book. Piracy isn't your problem. >people seethe if you use AI art, then pirate your PDF anyway It's wild that AI art is totally good enough and people will be mad about it even when the product is free or very cheap. The secret is, there's just a bunch of wacky activists who run around and bitch- they were never gonna be your audience, and if you hired the best artists they wouldn't even look at your book because they aren't gamers of any sort.>they will complain that WotC material is shit, but still pay 60 dollars for it Yea this is the real problem. Because everything WotC makes is assumed to be part of the game, but things they don't make aren't assumed that. Your best bet is to add monsters because DMs always want more monsters, but like there's a million people doing that.>if you make stuff for 5e, people say you are low-effort / unoriginal, even though hardly anyone buys stuff that isn't made for 5e If you're looking to sell things, you want to either do 5e stuff with AI and sell it cheaply, or 5e stuff with for-pay art and sell it as best you can. I don't think either pay that well because this zone has been flooded since the 80s. There's only a really thin market for anything but 5e, and each of the semi-successful side products tends to not actually want anyone else making their products; locked down licenses, weird clauses, stranger bullshit than you'd ever see in the software world, and all for a game that less than a million people will ever even know the name of.You can, of course, make a whole game and add it to the stack; its possible to make a living doing that, but not many do.
>>96898473First off, I haven't spend a cent on anything made by a large TTRPG corporation ever, because they don't deserve my money. I only support indie developers. Second, you're still the fucking retard. Even if what you say is true (which it isn't, because name me something as big as rogue trader was back in the day, I'll wait) it doesn't matter - if they did imports, they made money off that, meaning they had more money to throw around and by their actions they created the market in the first place you fucking mongoloid. How are you this dense? When you have people that don't realize they're in a competition (the hobbyists) interact with people who treat everything as competition (the corporations), the corporations always win, which is why GW, TSR, and Windows easily dominated the market. Go read https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
>>96881250>Literally only 5e is thisPathfinder is this too. Warhammer is doing politics constantly now, and was all about it during Pretend George Floyd Was A Good Man summer and adjacent times. Star Wars is an FFG product and they've done performative political crap in their products and at their org play. Chaosium has done all manner of political crap, and they seem to hate everything about Call of Cthulu. It's not just 5e. 5e is the most comical about it, sure, but it's a problem with many of the major guys in the industry. The brave chudforce is just a few companies that don't insert politics into their games, and for years were getting boycotted about it on twitter. ACKS is banned on most of reddit because Macris is a conservative, and his game doesn't even have politics in it.
>>96898525No, it got banned because there was an organized shilling effort during the ACKS2 kickstarter and they brigaded the subreddits pretty obviously. There's evidence like sock puppet accounts and cases of vote manipulation, and other really obvious shit.There's lot of other far more conservative games that didn't get banned. Politics might have helped push the decision, but most of the reason ACKS is banned is because the shills did a really bad job.
>>96897783I prefer CHUDpions. Hero Games stopped writing new material before woke existed, and that's a good thing
>>96898589>repeating Reddit liesyou need to go back
>>96898741>the year is 2025>nerds are arguing in favour social stigmasThe fandango has never been more grim
>>96898435No thanks, you can stay there passiveschizo.
>>96883055What you fail to understand is that the ability to write through rules is an extremely low value skill. It takes very little time to learn, the learning process is relatively painless and the act of writing rules is something that many people find fun. Compare that to illustration, which takes a long time and a lot of effort before you start getting good results. This is why the artists want 400 bucks for their pictures and nobody is interested in paying for your words.You know in your heart that I'm correct, because otherwise you would simply learn to draw your own art just the same as you learnt to write your own rules. You aren't doing that because you already understand that drawing is vastly harder.
>>96898770I'm laying down logic for you. Even the whole "THIS IS ABOUT POLITICS" business has been predominantly a screen to try and deflect the real issue, because everyone is largely aware that the actual game has very little politics involved. If Politics were the main motivation, then there's a dozen games that would have been on the chopping block before ACKS. Hell, ACKS had been around for a full decade before it got banned. The primary reason it got banned was because a game who's own subreddit had less than 500 members suddenly was flooding all the rpg-related boards with posts advertising how it was the best game everyone should be playing, something that becomes even more obvious as shilling when you learn the game is just a pretty unremarkable B/X clone that is loaded with unplaytested rules written by an amateur.Remember: just because redditors are idiots doesn't mean they're complete idiots who can't recognize brigading when it's happening, especially on a website where accounts are not anonymous. In the aftermath of the ban announcement, people showed lists of "sock puppet" accounts which had been made recently, made only a couple of posts promoting ACKS, and then were discarded. There's even still a few of them that haven't been deleted which are pretty obvious and clear sock puppets. It's so unnatural, especially considering the timing, that it really is kind of funny that there's anyone who still thinks that they can turn it into "THE WOKE AGENDA IS KILLING GAMING" matter as a form of damage control.If you're just picking it up as a bullet in your "THE WOKE AGENDA IS KILLING GAMING" efforts, you're better off sticking to just whining about 5e and 40k and whatever else you were doing.
>>96898929shoo shoo brownoid
... the fuck happened here?
>>96898949>even ACKS fag gets out of the woodworkWhat the fuck is going on here?
>>96899008Autism. Could kind of see it coming considering the thread opened by baiting AI art, but there you go.
I'm lucky that I can do /tg/ stuff at work during my mandatory and stupid lunch hour or whenever there isn't any pressing work. Now I'm even learning how to do nice designs in ms word. >>96898155Based self-published anon.
>>96898509>noooo not my heckin favourite company, they're visionaries and pioneers, noooooo leave them alone!You forgot these.
>>96898509You cannot simultaneously hold the view that you "can't make money from tabletop games" and also claim you "support people who make money from tabletop games" without looking like an idiot...
>wageslave and suffer>attempt author / make art and most likely failwhich one is it
>>96899405>be a self-inflicted faggot>already in fear of failure without tryingIf I were as fucked as you, I would just hang myself long time ago
>>96898589You never saw those "sock puppet accounts". Hell I'm not sure the mods even claimed they existed officially. Anyone can claim anything about "vote manipulation", and I don't know if I'd believe mods who have a hate boner for Macris if they did claim that. Certainly no one should believe any of their claims without evidence, which they didn't even try to provide.I do remember there being some ACKS threads in different subreddits right as it was kickstarting. But I see that for literally every random game that kickstarts, and nothing struck me as unusual. I know if I was gonna try to make a claim like this I'd at least make a list of the accounts I claimed were shills, make archives of their account pages, link it all in one place. Those mods never did anything like that though, did they? They just got together with their buddies and blacklisted him on any subforum that they had infiltrated.
>>96898905If that were true then comic artists would write their own shit, but it's usually a writer/artist pair.
>>96899440Post five finger fillet or btfo
>>96899489Hell I've seen devs admit to samefagging on reddit to get eyes on their project, and no ones cares because it's a beloved title. They're all just nudge nudge wink wink "of course, we all do a little botposting".Not a fan of macris' grifting either, but hypocrisy is as bad if not worse than dogwhistling imo
>>96898905Yeah and art got more convincingly replaced by AI than writing TTRPG rules did, so enjoy that.
>>96899757>Said a cunt who decided one day that yep, let's reinvent myself as a failure oppressed by myself
>>96899489>Game banned over extensive brigading>THIS NEVER HAPPENEDI knew that if this thread is going to get ACKSfag its going to reach new rock bottom, but come on...
>>96899987I'm nta you were originally talking to, I just like calling the "just take a chance bro" retards' bluff.
>>96899489Actually, someone posted an example of such a sockpuppet that wasn't deleted.https://www.reddit.com/user/TheYuanti/comments/About two dozen posts just praising ACKS, including posts that say "X game is great, but ACKS is much better" in order to talk about the system in any available threads. Not really much of a posting history, just a 'person" with a clear and obvious agenda and no other interests beyond transparently promoting ACKS. And that's one of the ones the mods still gave the benefit of the doubt to and didn't delete.Also, when it comes to vote manipulation, we actually had an interesting example of proof of that.https://old.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/17fjy02/alexander_macris_the_creator_of_adventurer/The thread was started by some guy complaining about the ACKS discord brigading, and another Redditor asked for a screenshot as proof. That comment got upvoted incredibly quickly to 100+ upvotes, and when that dropped to just 10 because a vote-manipulating accounts got scrubbed, it lead the guy who initially asked for proof of the brigading to edit his post to say that he no longer needed further evidence of brigading behavior. The thing about viral marketing is that it's only effective if people are unaware it's happening, and too many people who were familiar with the usual activities of the forum noticed it and called it out. Maybe some of the praise was genuine, but when there's a sudden increase of incredibly obvious advertising for a decade old game with lackluster qualities with a tiny player base, conveniently around the time its creator is begging for money, it raises suspicions. When people started collecting lists of obvious sock puppet accounts, pointing out threads that the shills made and then pruned of any negative comments, and just letting people witness the shilling behavior, I don't think much more evidence was needed. You're not going to have screenshots from their private discord.
>>96898905Nah truth is it's really hard to write rules and its a niche expertise. Writing in general is; technical writing for rules is even moreso. Artists can't do it, totally unable to, couldn't even learn if they tried, which they never do.Writing a rulebook has no fundamental need of art at all; when people go to actually play games, the ideal reference doesn't have any art attached. SELLING a rulebook has a requirement because that's what the paying audience expects, and naturally, if you have some unrelated worker you need to pay to get your product moving, then that's what you gotta do. It's like saying that bricklaying is super magical and important because in some retardoverse no one will buy a car unless it has a brick roof for some nonsensical reason, and therefore blah blah bricklaying lots of effort etc.
>>96899999PENTAKILL!ACKS Fag in shambles
>>96897877https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUnekmwgjk4 You know I had to
>>96900057>Actually, someone posted an example of such a sockpuppet that wasn't deleted.>https://www.reddit.com/user/TheYuanti/comments/ Yea that's unquestionably a sock account. It's also not even a multipurpose one; I could see not wanting to be in that weirdo thread on a main account, but even then I'd expect there to be some non-ACKS boosting content. He's even wrestling with people who like Sine Nomine, which has a different way of handling factions. I will point this out: >when there's a sudden increase of incredibly obvious advertising for a decade old game with lackluster qualities with a tiny player base ACKS II had a big kickstarter around this time. They were advertising in some places, and this was also the time that reddit chose to ban them. I believe in fact, that this is WHY they banned ACKS- they wanted to try to reduce his ability to kickstart his product.The vote manipulation thing seems interesting because, I mean, I know you can just go to a website and buy upvotes, and this is very obviously a thing that happens on reddit. It wouldn't be SHOCKING if someone who liked ACKS (or Macris himself) paid for upvotes- but beyond the mod's claims we don't have much there. I'm still not convinced there was an actual brigade, and I find it too convenient that the mods acted as they did, given their general hatred of Macris and their opportunity to screw him.But thank you for posting some evidence, that definitely shows some shenanigans.
>>96898509>I only support indie developers.Lol. No, you don't.
>>96899730Plenty do, Mike Mignola comes to mind as the obvious big name example. Go to the indie scene or webcomics and it's almost always one man operations. Even besides that the skillset of writing a good story is totally different than writing ttrpg rules.>>96899870I liked the earlier models that produced dreamscape nightmare stuff, that was a lot more interesting that the ultra generic stuff that newer versions spit out. The shrieking and shilling on either side about it is more annoying than anything of the ai art itself when it seems pretty clearly best used as part of the workflow of somebody that knows how to do art and so can inject their original vision at the outset and then tweak the output but hand.>>96900079It is niche expertise, but it's not hard at all to acquire. Is this misperception coming from a place of ego about your own abilities or have you never tried doing it?
>>96900499>I believe in fact, that this is WHY they banned ACKS- they wanted to try to reduce his ability to kickstart his product.He was only asking for $50k, something he reached quite quickly, though under extremely questionable circumstances (a few backers spent thousands of dollars getting the biggest packages, and ultimately the $300k the kickstarter reached came from less than 2k backers). While even the $50k turned out to be a bit of a lie just to make sure that they could advertise that they had a successful kickstarter, with even the $300k turning out to be insufficient and they had to cut costs on the final product by doing stuff like using AI art (something they didn't reveal to the backers until after they had already backed it), as far as most people knew at the time the ACKS2 kickstarter had succeeded before it got banned.It's only in hindsight that we know it was something of a failure, so it doesn't really make sense that the mods would try to stop something that they likely thought had already succeeded. They certainly didn't want to further reward any more brigading/shilling though, and I think that's an incredibly fair sentiment to have. It's less "We must crush Macris at all costs" and more "These ACKS Shills managed to succeed with their plan before we managed to intervene, let's make sure no one else is encouraged to repeat what they did."It's very easy to dislike Macris, ACKS, and the ACKS community. I don't doubt there were emotions attached to decisions. But, even if you strip away all emotions and politics involved, viral marketing is a really shitty thing to do and something that should be harshly discouraged.
>>96899380Holy shit, did they let a bunch of retards out of their cages. By "make money" the implication is obviously "make enough money to support yourself." If you're making $200 a month, that's obviously not enough for anything worthwhile. So while yes, you're making money in the literal sense of the word, you're not actually making money. Fucking ESLs. >>96899291pic related
>>96902070A) You're full of shit.B) Some of us actually like the system, create spin-offs and supplementary material (like myself).C) The AI art for BTA was always intended. The AI art in II was done to fill space due to layout issues and was done in addition to existing art AND it was done after consultation with everyone who was a supporter. D) Everyone does viral marketing. They'd be stupid not to.
>>96902450Actually you don't wanna elasticate it, just secure it with a bit open at the bottom. Air is heavier than helium (or more realistically, nitrogen), so it'll empty out naturally and you won't end up breathing it your own carbon monoxide....Just, yknow. In case.
>>969024692) And there's undeniable shilling activity. You liking the system doesn't really change anything except apparently make you try to rise to its defense against what should be your better judgment.3) There's no mention or disclaimer on the Kickstarter page, meaning if you just took that information and decided to back it, you'd be unwittingly backing something with AI art. The idea that it was done with consultation with everyone that backed the project is also a weird statement to try and make.4) Viral marketing is done in proportion to how shameless you are. Some people don't do it at all, and some people do it to the point where they get banned from subreddits.
>>96902469>Everyone does viral marketing.Which brings up a good question. What's the difference between someone posting about a new game they found because they like it and want people to play it, and a viral marketer posting about a new game to convince people to buy it? >it's not a lead in to a joke, I'm actually asking how to tell the difference, because I don't think anyone can and so the default assumption is that anyone who likes something must be a marketing shill
>>96902639No, there isn't undeniable shilling activity. You claiming it doesn't make it true. >>96903050I mean, realistically, if the marketing guy is good, there is no difference to the outside observer. For instance, ACKS is a net financial loss for me. I backed BAO at High King, which means I'm 2000 bucks down the hole. I don't mind, but so far, none of the content I produced for ACKS has broke even. And I gain nothing financially by recruiting people into the system either. I do it because I think out of a LOT of RPG systems (though not all), it definitely stands out. Certainly best-in-show in OSR.
>there's actually genuine shills with skin in the game on /tg/Fucking gross.
>>96897411My parents split up when I was six and spent turns kicking the shit out of me.Go fuck yourself, you whiny entitled POS, and thank you for making my fucking point about the garbage on this board.
>>96880851>everything is considered unoriginalOriginality hasn't existed for decades. We've basically done everything "new" or "original" already, and everything else is a rehash or remix of something that exists. As long as it's fun, who cares if it's original?>or boring nowThat would be the result of you being terminally online.>everything gets piratedYes, which is why I make all of my TTRPGs 100% free.>people seethe if you use AI art, then pirate your PDF anywayAI is a tool, using it as a replacement for something a human can do rather than to enhance what you do is failure to understand how to use it. I use Chat GPT to help me figure out more complex code for google character sheets for example, but I always test my shit before finalizing it to make sure the bot didn't cock something up.>if your art is shit, they won't buy itYou'd be surprised what the threshold for that is. I get paid for comms and I'd call my art shit.>they will complain that WotC material is shit, but still pay 60 dollars for itSpeak for yourself, I haven't paid a cent for any TTRPG.>if you make stuff for 5e, people say you are low-effort / unoriginal, even though hardly anyone buys stuff that isn't made for 5eI'm not making it for them, I'm making it for me and sharing it for free.>people will buy the most boring shit possible from their favorite YouTuber to "support the content" of some lisp-ridden fuck droning on for 45 minutes, when it's unoriginal slopThat sounds like projection.>It just feels like there is no point to throwing your hat into the ring anymoreFor the love of the game. Any endeavor where the primary goal is profit is destined to be soulless garbage. It's not about success, it's about the passion of what you're doing. If you love your work others will too.
>>96881067>you can be the new cool thing.Except anyone with more than a single brain cell realizes that's just becoming the retards who said D&D was satanic.If you really want to stand out, make your content a game or content for a game first, and a political message never.
>>96897411NTA but this board - no, this fucking dogshit site - has lost any and all spark of creativity and fun it ever had. Gone are the days of Pool's Closed and fucking with votes in online polls to name soda the most hilariously heinous shit possible, now it's all a bunch of dimwitted, narcissistic, nihilistic hipster faggots who will shit on any and everything and bicker about nothing at all instead of actually getting anything done or putting forth anything of actual value. It's all a bunch of bots and nobodies who are angry they will be forgotten when they die, but too lazy to get up and do something of value with their lives. No friends, no family who gives a shit if their family hasn't outright disowned them for being intolerable pieces of shit with the most heinous worldviews possible, no job, no achievements to mention, the kind of motherfucker who peaked in high school and never actually recovered or did anything with their life. 4chan is a husk.
>>96903050There is no difference, which is why liking anything is a mistake
