Rain on Our Skin Edition>Previous Thread>>96927122>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>WoD5 Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionHas your character ever been a double or triple agent? Did you succeed in betraying the target while getting away?
>>96936812>tries to start a game of Wraith>thread is overpottery
>>96936825>Premise: you have all recently been killed in various incidents involving other supernaturals.Begin! Does that give me some super cool and unique merits/powers?
>>96936825Like there was a man on the inside
>>96936700Zamn, Lasombra women look like THAT?
>>96936833I'm fairly certain it doesn't do anything though you can maybe use it as an excuse for supernatural merits
>>96936812Okay, fuck it.I'm commandeering this general to start a session of Wraith: The Oblivion Second Edition. Everyone, please refer to the Mega, if you need a PDF.===Premise: you have all recently been killed in various incidents involving other supernaturals.Begin!
>>96936904No
>>96936904Not again, Ashen lady isn't going to be happy.
>>96936904OKay, so what does my character see?
>>96936973My dick.
>>96936924 >>96936933 >>96936973A hazy smear of ashen gloam surrounds you. A vague shadow drifts across your vision. It seems that you are not alone.
Let's be honest here: which clan would you more likely he embraced into?
>>96937069Nosferatu.
>>96930148>chinese demigods might also be Christian angelsAnd they say that Mormon theology is odd!
>>96937050Tear off my caul if it isn't already. I'm not going through another enslaving, the first was bad enough.>>96937069Probably tremere or malkavian.
>>96937048Angler fish. Whales. Sharks. It'd become a case of shark+octopus/squid. Maybe a lamprey if they wanted some bloodsucking theme. Oh jellyfish and the bio-electric eels, that'd be a surprise option.
>>96937069City Gangrel 100%
>>96937091>Tear off my caul if it isn't already.Give me a Strength check.
The Stargazers are the only Based Garou.
>>96937069Malkavian. Im already a paranoid wreck with two tuplas.
>>96937217That'd be what? d6 or d8?
>>96936700>>Thread QuestionI'm starting off a chronicle in this situation, where my Caitiff may be caught in a political strife between the Camarilla and the Giovanni. Though secretly he fucking hates both. I'm sure they know it, though.Ideally, it would just be nice enough not to end up as a sacrificial lamb.
>>96937291Maybe on Planet Retard.
>>96937069My ancestors came from northern Scotland, at least two of them (that I know of) were professional wolfers, one of them hunted Indians for money, and grandpa was involved in nuclear testing. I don't think getting embraced is very likely for me.
>>96937393Dunsirn, makes sense
>>96937334Let's make this easy and go with a difficulty of six.
>>96937069Not going to lie, Toreador.
>>96937121What's there to fight in the ocean that's not a normal animal
Are there any slavic bloodlines? I don't really hear much even when there's as much myth and folklore as other cultures
>>96937459>>96937217Here's hoping>>96937488What isn't down there. Illithid equivalents if you find a technocracy lab, weresharks, merkith fae,other vampires. Wraiths, can't forget that. Nephandi, probably they're everywhere and like the most hated thing in the setting.
Rolled 2 (1d6)>>96937459>>96937217Fucking kill me
>>96937494Modern nights Nosferatu are all descended from Baba Yaga, though most don't know it. Also there are the Old Clan Tzimisce.
>>96936700I was a Caitiff in the pyramid, infiltrated the Sabbat for a bit, & generally did whatever i could to steal secrets & run.
>>96937494That's because Russia was basically under the control of Baba Yaga for centuries. And the other Slavic countires are the Tzimisce and Shadow Lords' territory. The OG Tzimisce being rather particular about their Clan's purity, such as it is. And the Shadow Lords ensuring no other leeches try to set up shop in their homelands.>>96937535>Modern nights Nosferatu are all descended from Baba Yaga, though most don't know itThey're actually descended from Medusa, another childe of Absimiliard.
>>96937504Firstly, World of Darkness uses ten-sided dice. Secondly...===Like a sickly moth, you struggle in vain, trapped in the wisps of your funereal cocoon.The figure lingers. Then, long fingers...A faint draft brushes against your face as you are freed and exposed. "Welcome to the rest of your death. Enjoy your stay..."
>>96937360>Maybe on Planet RetardSo Earth, basically?
>>96937069I vibe with the Warlocks, but I have shit luck so I could easily fucked into something that doesnt suit me or would screw me over in some way
Welcome to the Nosferatu clan!Here's your sire.
>>96937620Handsome lad
>>96937620V5 isnt canon
>>96937582I could've sworn it was Baba Yaga, but the wiki says "believed to be the progenitor of all non-Nictuku Nosferatu" for both their entries so now I don't know what to believe.
>>96937585"Damn, had a date tomorrow night'there a way to go back?"
>>96937642They probably each ate Nosferatu claiming to be Matriarch, and then felt so guilty they made independent decisions to then assume her identity and raise her kids until they ripen
>>96930036So Imbued are even more psycho than your average Neonate is.
>>96937703Your average fledgling, cause a neonate eventually learns some kind of control.
>>96937750Yeah but a Neonate (assuming not a Sabbat) also starts to blend into vampire society, with all its abuses. A Neonate won't mistreat the kine at that level even then. Though yeah, a Fledgling might lose control of their Beast and tear their family apart (if they have an extremely irresponsible Sire) but it would be out of their control, and deeply traumatizing. Not a choice willingly made.
>>96937670"Ah, a sense of humor. You'll need that around here," the stranger gestures vaguely at the dismal environs. A droplet from above punctuates the space between you two.
>>96937334>Using any dice that aren't D10s in a White Wolf game
>>96937804"Guess not"Char looks up
Rolled 2 (1d2)>>96937863[1] You gaze at a cavern ceiling so high that midnight fills the gap.[2] On a high ledge, a lone woman weeps.
>>96937924[I must leave to slumber. Think about your next action.]
>>96937924"Eh, found the next one" and add have sex/find love as a passion or somethingI'll think of an action tomorrow, or other anons will
>>96936700is there a reason to use mage the ascension rules over awakening rules even if you prefer the lore of ascension you can just port it over. This is a real question i've only played awakening.
Are the Graves family Giovanni turned Baali?
>>96938051Angelis Ater with dedicated patron
>>96937069Toreador.
>>96937069I think I'd be fine as a nosferatu, honestly. I hate thinking about it, but I probably would be just fine.
God I fucking hate Hecata. What a stupid asspull
>>96938195let your rage flow out from your keystrokes, you'll feel better after
>>96938195you get used to it
>>96938195Capuchin being three cappas in a robe is exceedingly dumb.
>>96938195I mean... just don't play V5.
>>96938195>the bloodlines the Cappadocius uniting into a singular clanIm not opposed to the idea>Nagaraja
Problem?
>>96938283I really can't see the Cappadocians forgiving the Giovanni. If they had just ignored the old nerds and shoved them in a crypt somewhere and told everyone to forget about them, then sure. But the active purges mean there's no way they're going to accept unifying with the Giovanni. It would take the most gracious Elder imaginable to bury a grudge like that even for the vampires who were only sired long after this betrayal, let alone the ones who took part.
What's a good, complimentary CofD splat to pair with Vampire?
>>96938455For, against, or as the odd stranger they see now and again?
>>96937069Is there a clan for a guy who keeps himself up until the morning because of death anxiety and a fear of the dark? Whatever that one is.
>>96937069Nosferatu, I wouldn't even know anything had changed.
>>96938502Lasombra with the variant clan weakness that makes light darkness and darkness light to your eyes.
>>96938309>I really can't see the Cappadocians forgiving the GiovanniA seemingly common complaint that is addressed by the very FIRST opening fiction of the Hecata's sourcebook, Cult of the Blood Gods. I detest V5, but I like the Hecata as a concept, as I've preferred the Harbingers/Cappadocians over the Giovanni wank of previous editions. But to address your issue. It was explained that the Harbingers managed to convince the younger Giovanni, those who were Embraced LONG after the original pogrom against the Cappadocians, to join up with them. Why would the younger Giovanni be willing to do this, you ask? Because, like the issue among the Ventrue and Tremere, immortality doesn't really make way for upward mobility. Can't really move up when the positions rarely open up. So they get to talking. The Harbingers would teach the younger Giovanni some secrets of the trade their Elders refused to, and also help them get rid of the Elders of the family, those who really bear the grudge of the Harbingers, and ike you mentioned, actually took part in the pogrom. With the old guard out the way, the younger Giovanni would welcome the Harbingers back to the family, so to speak. Hence the Family Reunion.>It would take the most gracious Elder imaginable to bury a grudge like that even for the vampires who were only sired long after this betrayal, let alone the ones who took partHere's the thing, each member of the family DOES have a vendetta. Most of the lore sheets explicitly acknowledge this fact. They aren't just "one big happy family, all's forgiven" as some mouth-breathers make them out to be. They've all just come to agreement that the appearance of a unifed front would beneficial to all of them. They're all still backstabbing and avenging old nad new grudges, but they just try to "keep it in the family". V5 has many mistakes. The Hecata are not one of them.
>>96938529>The Hecata are not one of them.You forget the Nagaraja being part of them?
>>96938541Anon, everyone forgets the Nagaraja
>>96938498Something that is similar yet different, where some factions are able to make alliances but there's always the threat where one will take advantage of the other or just betray them
Are there any hunters in the lore that got turned into a monster but kept hunting after the fact?
>>96938541I was deciding if I should have included a spoiler to address that tidbit. I see I should have. The Nagaraja are essentially speaking, much like the Tremere, Caitiff. They have no Antediluvian. They do have access to Necromancy, though. That alone was the only reason they could be tied to the Hecata. Speaking meta, adding them to the Hecata was just to keep them playable.>>96938547Like this anon point out, would you rather have them be included, or go the way of the Kuei-jin? V5 offers only these 2 options. See the Baali.
>>96938557
>>96938556Darkling that's an Antiquarian. An Inguma beast possibly with a whispering hunger. A veteran pilgrim sin-eater. A hunter or small cell belonging to the faithful of Shulpae. Promethean's kinda hard unless the disquiet is slowed. I don't know enough about mummy or deviant
>>96938547I blame the Harbingers sneaking in Black Hand friends
https://gameworldobserver.com/2025/11/07/swedish-analysts-have-estimated-the-production-budget-of-bloodlines-2-at-62-8-million>Bloodlines 2 cost 600 million Swedish kronor (62.8 million USD), according to estimates by analysts from the Swedish bank Swedbank. This does not include marketing expenses, which would increase the budget.>According to data from VG Insights, the Steam version of Bloodlines 2 has earned 13 million USD to date.>The service Gamalytic estimates its revenue more conservatively at no more than 8.4 million USD.Can we now bury the 5th Edition and finally get a new one without all the bullshit? It's been nearly a decade since 5th Edition started.Like I don't know, 35th Anniversary Edition as a remix of 20th Edition.
>>96937291They're the only tribe I can't make myself like. Kungfu werewolf is a bridge too far.
Does anyone have that one Glasswalker/Children of Gaia art piece that a Art bro drew a while back, I remember it being somewhat related to H:tP and Matilda to be specific, I remember the Werewolf being a woman who wore a fancy white dress.
>>96938738The only hope is that the recently reformed White Wolf is let go in order to exploit some sort of loophole that allows them to escape culpability for Bloodlines 2. If that happens and White Wolf inherits the financial responsibility for the failure of Bloodlines 2, then White Wolf might just liquidate and sell all of its IP to the highest bidder, or desperately seek out a buyer willing to take on that financial burden.But I think it's far more likely that Paradox will cling to White Wolf and its IP because they're still worth something, even Bloodlines 2 was garbage.
>>96938738did anyone actually expect it to make a profit at this point? i thought the entire point with the chinese room was to at least get some money back and paradox already admitted that they had given up on bloodlines as a video game series
I miss playing Great Value Dante
>>96938738If this value includes what was spent on the Hardsuit Labs version of BL2, then it's actually fairly manageable for a company of Paradox' size. I was expecting the costs to be at least 100 million. So Paradox will likely hold on to WoD and White Wolf 2, but just as a passive side gig to collect a couple extra bucks from>>96939292One anon mentioned some time ago that PDX already heavily scaled back their ambitions for WoD since the big management shift a few years ago, so they probably just insisted on releasing BL2 for the sake of justifying the purchase of WW
>>96937069I would want Malkavians or Tremere, but I'll be honest, it'd be the Brujah.>>96939119>Paradox will cling to White WolfBruh White Wolf was gutted. It's literally just a label-swapped skinsuit that Paradox marketing parades around in like wannabe Ed Geins.
>>96939336It's a skin suit that they stitched together that owns the IP, when they could have retained full ownership of the IP as Paradox. They didn't need to put it back together. It's just a case of figuring out why they did.
>>96938541The older Hecata know that Naga Raja aren't part of the Clans of Death proper, but at the same time the Hecata isn't just a Clan with Bloodlines, it's a Sect. In v5 Chicago by Night there's an outcome from one of the stories where some of the Ventrue side with the Hecata against the Camarilla and join up as official members of the Sect.
>>96938738It's always bizarre that you faggots act like WoD in general hadn't been dead for years before v5. We don't need another half-assed lazy edition like 20th was and we definitely don't need them to regress back to it as a "brand new" soft reboot when it's still right fucking there, available everywhere, with books and books of content.
>>96938738>VG InsightsI'm not gonna defend the trashfire that is BL2, but VG insights has literally never been accurate. Just wait two months for the earnings report and stop speculating with the modern equivalent of water finders and entrails.
>>96939359This. Same deal with CofD, it's dead, let it stay buried.
>>96937069a few years ago i was wondering if a lasombra wanted to embrace me but my most likely embrace would probably be gangrel given that i pretty much nocturnal and the only thing most gangrel look out for is "outside at night and not afraid"
>>96939349nagaraja are part of the clan in v5 after all they got their disciplines and weakness changed by the familiy reuinion does it make sense? fuck no. is it canon (to v5)? yes
>>96939390Their Disciplines only really traded Necromancy for Oblivion like everyone else. They're still Auspex/Dominate/Oblivion, and if you wanna get in the weeds about it their old Bane can be taken as a flaw.
>>96939400that's optional and only with st permission like the rest of the hecata bloodlines so their main/most common discipline spreed is now Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion
>>96938195I think the best part about all this whinging over the Hecata is that the Giovanni and the Necro clans in general were so unpopular that they faced getting axed in every edition except Dark Ages materials. Literally no one paid any attention to, liked, or played them for decades until V5 unironically made them one of the most popular picks.
>>96939411It's anecdotal, but I haven't seen a single ST ever refuse those options and the Nagaraja amalgams that were added later require that spread, so.
>>96939427oh i also wouldn't but that's giving the current team a bit more credit than i feel they deserve especially given that they blacklisted the people working on cult of the blood gods and didn't reprint the alternative discipline spreeds in the players guide
>>96939119If they no longer have big dreams for 5th edition, they don't need to fear CofD, they should allow new official books. I would like to see stuff like official ports of the 1e Mage Legacies to 2e, DaveB was planning a book about ephemeral liches, etc.
>>96937069I've taken the official quiz a few times and have always gotten Nosferatu, which fits because I have often fantasized about being completely invisible and left to my own devices. I could also see Malkavian because I have moments of paranoia or Tremere because I like to research stuff.
>>96939447problem is would people still come to paradox now that they have shown that they can and willing to just kill the gameline without even any statment? doesn't sound like good buisness for the people asking for permision to write in cofd
>>96938738>Be a group of autists on a Malkavian Dream-Crafting forum>Can immediately predict Bloodlines 2 would be mediocre garbage from day 1 because the writing skills just don't seem to be there any more. >At least 63 million dollars wasted in the processNow that that's over, can they go back to making a bunch of smaller games instead? I liked some of those. The big ones always end up half-baked for whatever reason.
>>96939474A multi-splat wide WoD dating Sim would be nice
>>96939447Nah, it's been several years of nothing official for CofD, let it stay dead. We don't need any half-assed revival books, we've got enough CofD books already.
>>96939414They were an ST tool like all the rest of the independent clans should be. This never-ending sating of gluttonous "players" has done irrevocable harm to the games.
>>96939474I want a WtA KoDP rip off. Managing a Sept and your ring of elders until the last battle comes.
Good set of cantrips for a Pooka businesswoman? I don't like Contract as an art and I don't use it in my games
>>96939582No they weren't. The Giovanni were more fleshed out than the Tzim were in 1e.
>>96939660The Tzimisce were an enemy clan not intended as a main clan for players to play.
>>96939688OK, and?
>>96939693You're just pointing out that one NPC clan was more detailed than another NPC clan.
>>96939704No. I'm point out that one was introduced for play and the other wasn't, yet despite that one went on to be a mainstay Clan and the other was almost removed. Your original point was also just retarded and has no merit.
>>96939333I'm going to say that it's likely it doesn't include the HSL version, as apparently that version was such a drain that scrapping and redoing from scratch was a preferable use of Paradox's time and money>>96938738As a sort of follow up to this, I suppose this explains why the game feels cheap, they definitely tried to develop the game as if it was still 2004 or so. 60 million does not cut it for anything over AA though I think a large part of the problems are contracting TCR and perhaps not a more prestigious studio. Rather bizarrely for Paradox I must say, as they wanted a bloodlines 2 in the first place
>>96939718You're talking to two different anons. Your mistake has landed you in the rape pits.
>>96938818You mean the character designs drawn by the artist or drawanon OCs
>>96939729Feel free, it's all the action you'll ever get, and you'll still be a wrong retarded fag.
>>96939740I just like to watch.
>>96938455Beast :^)
>>96939729>haha oh no I don't want to get rapedHardly a correctional punishment
>>96939727That makes sense, yes. 60 million seems really low for a game that went through multiple studios>rather bizarrely for Paradox, as they wanted bloodlines 2 in the first placeI actually think this is why they went so cheap with the TCR version of the game. After the fallout from the HSL development, they realized the game was never going to turn a profit, but they wanted to release SOMETHING so that White Wolf's purchase wasn't completely pointless. Their big plans to turn WoD into a multimedia franchise are already in the gutters, so shitting out a mildly presentable BL2 serves as a way to bury that project for good
>>96939756Your least favorite splat (and your least favorite faction of said splat) will be the ones doing the raping
>>96939499>VampireToreador. The basic bitch default love interest type, since Vampire is basically the default splat. Childhood friend who got Embraced and goes behind the Camarilla's back to continue seeing you because she never got to confess. Hasn't yet told you anything, but really wants to cry at your shoulder about the shitshow her (un)life has become.>MageHermetic. Stuck up rich girl who pretends she knows how to have fun but gets unreasonably huffy whenever she's the butt of the joke. Secretly thinks saying magic spells aloud is fucking stupid and has been slowly incorporating tech into her rituals instead. Is creating her own custom esoteric operating system. Would love to become a Virtual Adept instead, but her family would kill her for abandoning their "pure Hermetic legacy".>WerewolfFianna Galliard drinking buddy. Subtly complains about her sept over drinks. Pack alpha constantly peer pressures her into telling stories that glorify his deed disproportionately, and keeps trying to flirt with her. Only reveals she's a Werewolf halfway through her route, when she knocks at your door, covered in blood, asking for help in finding a place to hide.>ChangelingSlaugh, Seelie. Big titty goth stalker. Lives in the apartment below you and scurries up to her ceiling anytime you have a girl over, so she knows everything about your relationships. She's thus also the character who gives hints when you're stuck and don't know how to progress a girl's route. Pretends she's fine with living her romantic life vicariously to harvest Glamour or being part of a mythical "harem route", but really just wants you all to herself.>DemonLammasu, Faustian. Your landlady and literal Succubus who's responsible for subtly inflaming the lusts of all the above-mentioned girls to turn you into her ideal man who's capable of handling any woman thrown his way. In truth, she's extremely lonely, longing for when she had companions she could trust.
>>96939727i am not so sure about that. hardsuit lap wasn't that big and expensive a studio paradox bought 33% of the studio in 2018 for only 2 million dollar and they did that so further fund bloodlines after the managment over there screwed upso it could be that they just made this game with a shoestring budget
>>96939805>HunterZeal creed Judge. Not-an-actual-nun who's set up shop in the local church and not so subtly tries to get you to give out info on the other girls. Her route's ending is the easiest to get, but also a complete bait-and-switch where she just kills the other girls and disappears, only giving out a letter confessing to you if you make the correct choices throughout the route—yet even then leaving you behind to continue the fight on her own.>WraithOnly shows up during bad end meta segments to give you tips on not dying.>MummyIDFK.
There's no way the Giovanni would go for joining a bunch of necromancer clans under one banner. They're not just vampire necromancers, theyre family. They're a mob. They dont like outsiders to the point they fuck each other. If you wanted to have a big group of Necromancers youd be better off making the Gio families their own distinctive bloodlines under Giovanni. The Harbingers & Nagaraja are very interesting but they are not gonna join the Giovanni gor any fucking reason other than murder
>>96939799Nooo! Not those thinskinned retarded- ahhh~
>>96939499>>96939805NWoD:>VampireLancea et Sanctum Daeva. Sweet but a little stuck-up. Keeps inviting you to Mass and won't have premarital sex. You have the option of letting her feed on you, and each time she does she gets a little more creepy and possessive.>WerewolfIthaeur Bone Shadow. The weird femcel option. Always muttering about how the spirits are pleased with you and gives you esoteric and often gross gifts.>MageFree Council Mastigos tomboy. Wants to build you up with an intensity that borders on bullying. Believes in BDSM as self-discovery and self-improvement.>ChangelingDarkling, East Court. Chinese-American goth rich girl. Very aloof and arrogant, but it's all a facade. Keeps accidentally revealing that she knows way too much about you.>HunterNetwork Zero Record Keeper. Highly energetic geeky girl. Torn between genuine affection for you and her desire to use you to get footage of your supernatural acquaintances. If you let her get too close then choose another girl, she gets a bad end, like getting ghouled by the Vampire or abducted by True Fae.>GeistHungry Necropolitan. Lives in a Boneyarded manor with some ghosts. She was your high school sweetheart who tragically died, but came back, unable to accept the absolute state of her love life. Her Geist doesn't like you - you must appease it or she'll lose Synergy by pursuing you.>DeviantYour flirty co-worker disappeared a year ago, and now she's back as an Invasive. Unstable and needy. She'll occasionally crash on your couch and let you tend to her wounds after raids on the conspiracy that Remade her.Secret character: your Guardian angel. The God-Machine noticed you are anomalously attractive to the supernatural and wants you to stay alive so it can study you. If you manage to find her, you can get her to Fall and become a Tempter. She's a little cold, but slowly warms up to you as she gets used to her new state. Occasionally approaches you in wildly different Covers.
>>96939809>literal shoestring budget for the follow up to the game you bought a whole IP forIs Paradox retarded?
>>96939917yes? where have you been the last few years?
>>96939799>mummies or totally not good boysYeah, I doubt it
>>96939499Hunter>girl next door & outdoorsy /k/ommando, she wants you all to herself & will kill the other girls over time if not thwartedDemon>Succubus, you can fuck away her torment & save her. Holds multiple jobs & just sort of appears in different situations & scenarios out of the blueVampire.>classic Ventrue or Toreador lady of the night who wants to suck your "blood", they'll borrow from Baldur's Gate Shadowheart. She is seeking Golconda.Werewolf>Wendigo Native American tomboy athleteMage>Order of Hermes, classic witch wants your help organizing an event with a touch of magic to help the Sleepers AwakenWraith>very cute sad goth girl, writes poetry & trying to help a box of abandoned kittens find homes & not die. If you dont make the right decisions her better visibly degrades until she's a spectrumMummy>Hot Egyptian rich girl, she is brimming with life & is always full of energy. Wants to live lavishly.Changeling>Hippie girl free spirit trying to fend off banality, Sidhe. Needs help getting out of a contract to marry another guy, either a fairy lord or another changeling
>>96939805>>96939881Very cool anon. now do men
>>96939830Mummy would be the teacher/boss route
>>96939919I just would assume Paradox at least has some common sense, though I guess none of their games have ever had actual budget
>>96939958It's because WoD in general and Bloodlines in particular is way out of their usual output. Paradox' bread and butter is map painter games where they milk the same autists over and over with DLC to make them profitable, and even most of the games they publish from third party studios are city/factory-builders (Cities Skylines, Surviving Mars, Prison Architect...) which catter to a fairly similar crowd. They have little to no idea what the typical WoD fan likes, which is why they trust the LARPers they put in charge of the IP nearly blindly when it comes to making stuff for WoD5 and also why they choose a studio which, up until then, has only made walking simulators with making an RPG wih actual combat
>>96939628>businessWinter is coming...
>>96940259All going according to plan
>>96939881>tfw my cute nerdy girlfriend will only go on dates with me if we're both wearing bodycams and livestreamingThe lack of trust hurts
>>96939933The same but gender swapped. We know you fags all want the same archetypes.
Well I made my gf take the V5 clan quiz. I got gangrel, she got ravnos. How long until we kill each other?
>>96940422nah you two are now in a lovers to enemies to lovers vampire novel
>>96940422Hobo & gypsy compliment each other
>>96940403Archetypes that are hot on women are not always hot on men, anon. You don't eat ice cream with ketchup or french fries with chocolate syrup
>>96940457As the Homestucks ould call it "Vacillating Madness."
Werehare warform.Should Wererabbits have a weakness to gold or silver? There's lots of Rabbit on the Moon stuff, but I don't know if they should be a little bit of a mix up like with wereravens
>>96940480Serious question, have you tried those combos out? They're not as bad as you'd like to imagine.
>>96940486Hispo form
Ah yes, the dilemma of Werewolf games.>Hey, can I please play a shapeshifter who transforms into literally any other fucking animal ever, literally fucking anything that isn't a wolf, in this Werewolf game?
>>96940480Vampire would be Lasombra bad boy archetype. The one that everyone believes is friendly and nice but there's also that feeling of unease when you catch his gaze.Demon would be a lamasu too. Ravener. Literal incubus that rapes you and a few others during sleep a few nights until you start investigating. Eventually you catch him via binding circles and leave him to be used as your stress relief toy. You know as revenge. Depending on if you talk with him, you can turn him faustian or fall with him. Heavy impregnation fetish this route
>>96940612Your ST says yes. Now what.
>>96940480Straight Fianna that you convince to fuck you while he's brown-out drunk, or Wendigo shit lib who gets you to lay reparations with your ass.
>>96940770Black Fury Metis who wants to wear a dress...
How do you cope with the fact that you'll never live in a fantasy world?
>>96940812drugs
>>96940403I doubt it. Submissive twink archetypes are something else
>>96940480Just going through anon's owod list:>VampireBasic bitch default love interest. The setup is exactly the same, he's practically Romeo.>MageRich dude who's unhappy but finds an outlet with the MC.>WerewolfThis is just a hipster dude who's getting harassed by his female boss.>ChangelingDark brooding guy who's a little too into you.>DemonPlayboy who's your friend but is secretly lonely because he can't trust anyone except you.Literally all of these are common romance novel archetypes. Werewolf would probably be the weakest, but still works.
Cyberpunk Fairytale: Changeling in The Neo-South >>>/qst/6324793
>>96940812I'm killing myself on the 29th.
>>96940770I find the first one hot way too much to be healthy>>96940812I come up with characters and entire worlds that I never write down
>>96940480Shadowlord elder landlord, mostly a decent guy. Bit odd though older folks give him shit. Rumors abound about him being a supposed rapist or rake with a taste for pretty young things. Through the route you discover your kinfolk and he fully switches track into being your sugar daddy. There's a fake out incest plot that the player can decide is real or not when your mom visits. Leading you to learn your daddy and mom had a thing twenty odd years ago.
>>96940831I'll see you here on the 30th.
>>96939499>>96939881Mekhet guardian angel, you don't know what she is but you leave notes for each other. Romance unlocked after you manage to find out about vampires despite her attempts to somewhat comply with the Masquerade
>>96940851Did that fucking cunt in the mirror give our angel away? She's always been jealous
>>96940812I wait for the wine-heroin-porn pod to be a reality
>>96940812Struggle with the fact I live in a pre-cyperpunk world instead.Too late to enjoy the golden years of the post-war age, born too early for the singularity. Just in time for PAIN
>>96940838I’m using this… I have no idea how just yet, but I’m using this
>>96940879It will be a monthly subscription with micro-transactions, non-skippable advertisements, and the quality will rapidly diminish.
>>96940848The banality of dates and schedules overwhelms my melancholic fae soul, causing me to slip into a forgetful fugue state. Yay ^-^
>>96940898>Landlord/sugar daddy could have been stepdadThis feels a bit tropey, but also kind of weird
>>96940770>>96940836>Fianna>StraightHe was asking for it ideal woof is Red Talon turned into a not human hater for both
>>96939628>Pooka businesswomanI'm not a furry, but...
>>96940955So wait, you get to be the dog and I.. what.. get to fuck the dog?
>>96940939>nbr Nay. Mom not being kinfolk in dead end incest is why they broke up.
>>96940917But dates are super glamourous, just stuff them with spiced and honeyed nuts
>>96940969I suppose I meant for both genders but I like your interpretation>>96940975So the appeal is the semi-not incest? Isn't that more of a silver fangs thing
>>96940955Sitting on a red talon's face while your dog fucks them isn't everyone kink.
>>96940992The appeal is age play because the shadowlord is older than you. Come on.
I think I finally figured it out. Every splat is just someone's fetish.
>>96940812By living in the real world like every other normal person
>>96940939I mean, that's the kind of weird I throughly enjoy>>96941009It took you this long to figure out, anon?
>>96941033>>96941001>Age play for the splat that has an average to below average lifespan because of retardbrain>Not the immortal vampires>Not mummiesIdk
>>96940969Is it an issue if he has the mental capabilities of a human (which he avoided using because he thought humans were evil until he met you)?
>>96940996>Implying the Red Talon isn't the dogHave to think bigger than that
>>96941056>splats that on average go for a standard adult age lookAnon...
Did someone say ageplay?
>>96941009>Reality Bending (mage)>Furry (werewolf)>Mind control (vampire)>BDP GF (Wraith)>Resurrection (Mummy)>Possession (Demon)>I'm not saying the one for ChangelingOh god, he's right.
>>96941110>Resurrection kinkWhat does this look like? Guro then back to fucking?
>>96941110>not body mod for WraithSmall time anon. Utterly small time
>>96941102Is it odd if I don't find it as hot when the older partner is a woman
>>96941151Eh, every splat has shapeshifting/transformation somewhere in there.
>>96941110You can do all those kinks and more with Mage. It's even how the Cult of Ecstasy does magic
>>96941078I just figure you can do age play better with Hunters or Vamps if that's really your kink
>>96937639Cope.
>>96941157 older women don't have the same vibe with the age play I agree
>>96941190They could but it's not easy
>>96941063Listen if they want to get belly rubs then they need to be good. If they can't be good then I'll know it isn't safe
>>96941164Ah but the Wraith can become those japanese milk machines, a Tzimisce can only pretend
>>96941181Hunters have even less longevity than woofs. Vampire ageplay hits too close to real life with "40 year old acts exactly like a 17 year old".
>>96941355Good point I suppose. Just figured the 250 yo loli might actually act her age
>>96941009>Samedi
>>96939748
>>96938589>Promethean's kinda hard unless the disquiet is slowed.Thank god for phones and videochat.
>>96941475One more thing Leviathan stole from other splats.
>>96940829Thanks for sharing but I really don't have anything to add.
>>96940612To be fair they did everything and then some with the concept. That and the other furry fodder creatures are too forgettable to say anything about.
>>96939738Yes but I remember it being posted in mention of H:tp/Maltilda.
>>96941801Oh yeah, the artist worked on some more characters that might be in future audio logs. Some of who looked suspiciously quite werewolf-y like a black college professor looking Glass Walker type iirc. We'll see though I don't expect those characters until early next year at the rate it takes them to animate. Although episodes aren't going to be 40 minutes anymore allegedly
I think V5 dice are really cool and way more interesting than simple d10s, even if V5's diceroll system isn't very good (fuck rouse checks desu)but how would you make them work in V20 if you had to? and how would you incorporate the danger dice? (I don't want to call them hunger dice because that implies forcibly including hunger as a mechanic)
>>96941934actually thinking on it, they don't even have to be "danger" dice, can just be any special dice that add something cool, could even be a positive effect
>>96940486Be weird, use jade as their weakness for Tu Yu connection.
>>96941934Damn, that's fucking CRAZY, paradox nigger shillMaybe you can link DIRECTLY to where I can buy so that it 100% verified goes to shareholders
>>96941934I would just commission a dice maker to make cool but universally functioning dice.You could have clan/tribe/tradition icons too for more flavor.
Why is the Eldest called the eldest?
>>96942439acording to the tzimisce teacher in the players guide to the high clans his clan (and presumably he himself) consider who he was during life to be so unimportant that he doesn't need a human name
>>96942439Oldest of their line. Names are so terribly human.
>>96937620I'll go sunbathing the following morning
>>96942432You mean standard D10s, which work just fine (And are arguably easier to read) in WoD5?
>>96941934You can commission a dice maker to make normal d10, but replace 1 with the skull, 6 with ankh and 10 with angh with stars from v5 dice.On that note, is there a place that still sells v20 anniversary dice?
>>96937620i really did not like this guy and then he just did not matter at all in my playthough he had like 2 scenes where he wasn't just being the prince's little side kick or a fabian flashback
>>96938051>that picture
>>96942701they probably don't like you for being vapid enough to make this shittok
>>96942672His loyal ghoul saved you.Isn't that amazing? Y/Y
>>96942691>(And are arguably easier to read)How are numbers easier to read than symbols? If all you do is count successes, what do you need to know exact numbers for? Why should it matter to you if it's a 2 or a 3?
>>96939805>>96939830Excuse me, did you seriously just steal my posts from months ago for this?>>95286752>>95286842Fucking bold. I'll consider it flattery. This time.Didn't make the CofD one, so no comment there.In hindsight, I'd change the tradition the Mage actually wants to be to Etherite, and keep the Vampire's clan more ambiguous.Got an idea for a Mummy later on: Necromancer DLC extra character with her own story that alternatively branches off into a proper route for the wraith girl.
HtP Chapter 5 finally clawed it's way to the views of the previous episode.
>>96942694>On that note, is there a place that still sells v20 anniversary dice?Was that even a thing?
>>96942851And?
>>96942900https://www.dragonstrove.com/products/vampire-the-masquerade-20th-anniversary-dice-set?variant=44907788304666ngl, looks ugly.
>>96942696He ended up taking over my city despite my best efforts in my playthrough, all because I didn't suck him off every scene he was in.
>>96942851>Release after a year long delay>Sequel without a hookMakes sense it took so long
>>96942710That's actually the op of the video, you tell her. Fucking get her, stupid cunt make her learn.
>>96942759Most actual games set successes at 6-9, not just 6+.
>>96942759Difficulty, primarily. Can't just go "oh we succeed on a 6" when a player is making it hard on himself. A simple binary success system doesn't really capture nuance and is part of the reason DnD 5E is kind of mediocre
>>96942960he was a major player like that? again i never even interacted with the guy and i was 100% camarilla ride or die
>>96942960He's basically the only left in the Camarilla after Lou's purges and V5 heavily pushes the notion that other clans can be princes easier now that all the Elders are getting munched on
>>96942996He's effectively a Harpy+Herald combo
>>96943002and primogen. that court is really understaffed
>>96943040It's understaffed as hell because Lou is fucking retarded and so is TCR and Paradox. V5 be like oh we must only have 1 vampire per 100k citizens which is fucking retarded compared to the vampire density you see in Bloodlines 1 . Seattle could easily have like 200 Vamps or something but TCR insists it needs a billion thinbloods and like 8 normal vampires
>>96943085>flit across three empty baronies and one non-cammie court>denseAs right as it is to dunk on Paradox don't misremember 1. Downtown was the biggest concentration
>>96943110>Go into a single street the size of a city block>Santa Monica has 3 Vampires, is next to a Sabbat Gang Pack, has 4 thinbloods, two ghouls>Downtown is more sizeable sure but it's still got like 8 vampires>Hollywood is like a 300 foot street and there's 3 vampires in it, a gargoyle, leads to the Nos Warrens>This isn't including China Town's situation, Giovanni Mansion, etcIt's not extremely dense but the map implies there's quite a couple of off screen vampires considering how small the hubs are
>>96943124>>96943110Essentially as a TLDR I'm trying to say here that when you compare 2 to the hubs in 1 it's massive but you basically only meet like 10ish vampires and a bunch of thinbloods and ghouls. Who the hell is supplying all this blood and recruiting? Doesn't matter either way but it's somewhat incoherent as a setting
>>96942759Exploding 9s
>>96943124>a single street the size of a city blocki always just took that as artistic license and technical limitations
>>96943124not so much implied and shown given that act 3 features no name vampires that showed up in the bloodhunt and several no name ventrue in the towerwe also see the primogen in one scene but don't ever interact with any of them but strauss and strauss also has other apprentices that we don't get to see because of his hall way fuckery (by the way is that something you can replicate with thaum?) so like half to 2/3 of the kindred in bloodlines 1 are just guys who's name we never learn and that's not even counting the sabbat at all
>>96943147Well, that's true but Seattle feels positively empty by comparison
>>96942997How dreadful.
>>96943152>All the random Gangrel Sabbat attacking youYeah it's basically Vampire fodder
>>96943160>Kill Lou>Ryong dies via the story>Have no interest in being the prince yourself>Tremere granny doesn't want itGaysferatu is quite literally the only guys left
>>96943131in 2? I know people and shitposters don't like to read notes but it's there that Cali anarchs are feeding troops and gear to seattle. They were going to war when the game plot sent it sideways. The anarchs are very much the sabbat of 2.>>96943176>Couldn't sweet talk the Gilf into itCome on, you could get her to do it. The other burjah's too up his own ass to lead.
>>96943176well the bar ventrue is also camarilla but he also does not want it at all which makes me wonder in theory what would happen if you have a entire court that identifies as camarilla and they dominate the city to the point where it is a camarilla city but nobody wants to be prince because recently they keep dying like flies? is that something a justicar or their archons would come to look at?
>>96943183Well damn, wasn't aware of that. It still just seems a bit lacking to have such a small cast of vampires for such a big map compared to 1. That's just my opinion though
>>96943200Probably would be forced to elect a prince, even a token one while they do the democracy shit. As of V5 though the Camarilla is pretty lawless especially in America. I'm sure no one would care
>>96943200Archon would probably blow through and then just appoint someone prince. It is so beneath them, they'd probably question the primogen and then maybe beat Fletcher's head in for not having a decent excuse for being a coattail rider.
>>96943176her and the speakeasy ventrue are also potential endings
You know what? VtM needs a game thats a big sandbox GTA type game. Put inescapable werewolves & rokea at the borders. Let you chose between Cam/Sabbat/Anarchs. Cam missions are mostly just endless bullshit assigned to you by your Sire>Primogen>Prince. Sabbat missions are much looser. Its mostly just a cluster fuck of side quests for whoever you can find until you get important enough to do the endgame quests for the Bishop. Anarchs have their own small quest line but you're open to do lesser Cam & Sabbat quests too. Give each faction territory that can change hands, sprinkle in some side content & itd probably be really fun.
>>96943218>>96943222oh i wasn't thinking seattle or v5 with that question . Just general setting question about what the camarilla would do to a princless city where all other traditions are kept
>>96943206Oh it is but it's on par with Santa monica or Hollywood if you consider the warrens to be part of it. My biggest population complaint is that the enemy anarchs should've been thin-bloods with the mini-bosses being 14th or 13th gen. We're fighting through the war fodder, no vampire has the vitae supply to make all those ghouls.
>>96943176No you misunderstand.>the notion that other clans can be princes easier now that all the Elders are getting munched onLesser Clans were made to serve the Higher Clans. Not the other way around
>>96943242Probably put the sheriff as the prince. They might look at it a little strangely but if it's running okay then there really isn't a problem
>>96943235Had no idea, seems hard to do. Also>speakeasy in 2025
>>96943247Yeah that's another complaint I have in particular. They have to make them all ghouls n shieet because we're a badass Elder but it still feels kind of lacking
>>96943256Yeah but thanks to Gehenna and the Beckoning that stuff really went out the window. There's a Gangrel prince in Night Road and apparently Paradox/White Wolf has a lore division that makes changes so that the setting is consistent
>>96943256Grandad, you got red on you. Also the convention was centuries ago, you got rid of that distinction.
>>96943176>>96943200The Inner Council would have an ambitious Kindred from somewhere else comes & be Prince. Something like this would both lessen tension somewhere the potential new prince is butting heads against the entrenched powers that be, give the potential new prince to prove himself, & put a closer eye on whatever is fucking up a city that lost a prince. The potential Prince is also not likely to say no since he would loose face for turning down such a reward. The only other alternative is having some hunchback rat wear a crown & to advertise just how weak the Cam is in the area that such a hideous freak gets to play court.
>>96943176IAO ending is canon
>>96943284>spoilerto be fair in the next game of the same company has a archon unprompted just talk shit about the guy and how he dares to be prince
>>96943544Was that Parliament? I know the Camarilla is still pretty elitist in the lore though but I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't have the numbers somewhat excusable in Seattle though since apparently Lou has been fucking over the Camarilla for 100 years
>>96943735>Was that Parliament?yes, but it's not a big scene pretty much just a throw away line cameo
>>96941818Do you have some of their art on hand or any of their socials at least?
>>96943814Not really sorry, it was in the old /co/ htp threads about 2 weeks back but I'm sure someone knows the artist. I think you can just check Busa's YouTube for her bluesky link
>>96943284Boston had a low clan prince for 200 years who got "Beckoned away" and replaced with a Ventrue for Swansong.
Am I missing something or is Mist Form (Protean) just better than Tenebrous avatar (Obtenebration)?
Stop pretending to like Beast just to be contrary
>>96944074Personally I don't mind. except for a Nos as they're more mob characters
>>96944100Why wont Beast players just admit that their game is retarded?
>>96944100>>96944140Beast fans aren't real. go back to bed.
>>96944100>>96944131While what we got was definitely not, I think a game with the same basic concept as Beast done in isolation (explicitly not part of CofD) could be good, maybe even great.
>>96944100Fuck you man, Player's Guide wasn't bad.
I've never played a single game of WoD but I still shitpost here.
>>96944096Meh, kif-kif
>>96937069Ventrue or Gangrel.>VentrueI'm foreveraGM/ST.All I do is organize and create structure for people to do shit. Hell I'd become prince despite my wishes, only because I'm the only one willing to actually do something.>GangrelLeadership and dealing with retards drains you. Let me have my alone time and meld into the earth.
>>96944226You say that as if it makes you unique, or even a rarity. That's 3/4 of posters in this general. Plus, none of you even read books.
>>96944286Hey, I do read the books
>>96944226These generals are:>30% Bloodlines secondaries.>30% Hunter the Parenting secondaries.>10% secondaries who didn't discover the setting through either of the prior vectors.>10% heavily favour and play the World of Darkness.>10% heavily favour and play the Chronicles of Darkness.>10% evenly divided between WoD and CofD.
>>96944100>>96944189So what was wrong with Beast? Terrible mechanics or it being a forced crossover splat?
So how is this merit supposed to work?
>>96939414>Literally no one paid any attention to, liked, or played them for decades until V5 unironically made them one of the most popular picks.The core issue has always been that they were Independent. Fitting an Independent into your standard game's coterie, which is gonna be Camarilla, is very difficult.
>>96944469>buy merit>choose one ability >that ability now costs [current ranting] xp for next level, instead of [current ranting x2] xp
>>96944461Completely terrible concept lead by a sexual abuser that basically made people like him into the player splat, combined with a chaotic mess of development mismanagement, then a fast attempt at rewriting after he was fired that didn't really fix any of the game's many problems.
>>96944461Extremely flawed themes and premise which are built on the perspective of the child predator who wrote it all.>I possess the soul of a monster and a supernatural hunger that can be sated by victimising people in ways that resonate with my inner beast, but there are all of these damn do-gooders who are trying to stop me! Don't they see that I am trying to make my victims better people with all of the suffering that I put them through?! I'm teaching them important lessons with the torment that I inflict, these bigoted white knights don't understand the true value of the abuse and suffering that I cause!It's extremely self-righteous and fixated on the narrative about how the Beasts are the good guys who are just teaching people lessons, even though they're supernaturally driven to terrorise their victims in various ways depending on their Hunger. On its own, it would just be weird, but when the writer ended up behind bars for being a child molester, it became clear just how extremely fucked up the whole thing was. The entire book basically just reads like pedophile apologia.
>>96944461Mechanically, despite being a forced crossover splat the crossover mechanics were just as garbage as they always are.Fluff wise they took a concept that really begged for and could have worked as an unapologetic play the villains game and desperately tried to justify the player characters' actions until it went just as the other posters mentioned.
Is it too fishy to theme a Malkavian prince around madman theory and mutually assured destruction?
>>96937980 >>96937930 >>96937924https://www.scribd.com/document/211083667/Wraith-the-Oblivion-2nd-Edition-WW6600https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Wraith:_The_Oblivion_Second_EditionHigh upon a ledge above, a moon-pale woman weeps. Knowing when to bow out, your Reaper makes his exit.
>>96944704No, Malkavians frequently play up their clan's reputation to make their enemies think they are more unpredictable and a threat than they actually are.
>>96944555It's such a shit merit its no even funny.
>>96941011“The only value of this world lay in its power - at certain times - to suggest another world.”― Thomas Ligotti, Songs of a Dead Dreamer
>>96941110>>I'm not saying the one for ChangelingThere are at least three! Which one?
>>96944784Could be useful if your ST let's you choose more than one. Personally I think it should let you choose a theme of abilities you learn fast>>96944807I feel as if I skip over all the chapter quotes in the cyoa games, but I recognize this guy
>>96944589>ended up behind barsI fucking wish. His brother's a cop, he got away scot free.
>>96944820BPD seems to be a theme in all the games though.Is Changeling the manic pixie girl with BPD and otherkin stuff going on?
Someone needs to make a World of Darkness Grand Theft Auto mod.
>>96944879>Grand Theft Auto mod>Shows pic of The SimsWhat did anon mean by this?
>>96944783What if it's actual nuclear ambiguity and part of the rumor is that there's a recovered device on a weekly timer hidden in the city? Where's the line that this gets cartoonish?
>>96944906>on a weekly timerright here
>>96944906Don't make it an actual nuclear device. This is Vampire, make it some supernatural bullshit.
>>96944916Well keep him out of torpor.
>>96944575>>96944589>>96944639Man that's really fucking disappointing.
>>96944589>Don't they see that I am trying to make my victims better people with all of the suffering that I put them through?! Wasn't that the premise of Saw?
>>96944968The difference is that beasts don't just want to make people better through suffering, they just feed off of the suffering itself. The lessons that are being taught are little more than an excuse to justify the abuse.
>>96944879Closest thing he had at hand.
>>96943176There's the anarchs who basically get it by default if you do the sensible thing and send Max to the anarchs. Like if Max is with the anarchs and you didn't send the hunters after the amarchs then they take over the city by default.>>96943176Every one of the clan reps including tremere lady can be princes if they like you enough. Which basically just rules out whichever clan you yourself are.It is apparently a bitch to get that ending though.
>>96944981https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwZET_O2m5s
>>96944469Its a trap. It saves a little bit of xp on something, but you're better off just maxing it at character gen
>>96944998Is there an option for you to become Prince cause otherwise thats super fucking gay
>>96945092Yep. You just have to say you want to be Prince, get rid of the anarchs and not have a great relationship with Lou.
>>96945136Why is this faggot so influential?
>>96945164Branches off you taking it.
still, not a huge fan of essentially a literal who dude who might as well be the only Nossie in the city getting to be prince. I understand that TCR or Paradox wanted to have RPG-tier ending variations but there's only 3 real endings
>>96944776Is there a path he can take?
>>96945164It's never really explained how the fuck Tolly is so influential or how he can instantly beat you (He's the one who stakes you if your masquerade meter runs out). All they say is he knows the secrets.
>>96945208Tolly is basically prince if there is no alternative. Your relationship with Lou wasn't great, you killed the anarchs and you didn't want to be prince.
>>96945209Indeed!Into the side of a cliff, a crooked, rough-hewn stairway winds around to the top of the ledge. There's no railing, so be careful. You may be dead, but you can still suffer...
>>96945210>how's an unofficial secret keeper influential?How is the harpy? I think there might be one line at the beginning about how he's the herald if it's not just>he's part of the court.
>>96945250I guess he's gonna climb, on all fours if need becan't have shame if there's nobody around
>>96944226Wow, you're literally like everyone else here
>>96945309You negroes are nogames too? Thankfully that's changing soon for me though I'm double no games because I have to ST
>>96944838IF it made a category of abilities less expensive it would be worth the points. As is, it makes more sense to take Aptitude.
>>96945218You can say that you'll be prince in some convos, but if you don't trigger telling that to the Nos you'll get the ending where he becomes prince.
>>96945293Faint moans and unintelligible whispers drift upon the stillness of the Plutonian air as you make your ascent. Despite the jaunty angle of the steps, you have arrived unharmed. Ahead, there she is.
>>96945364Anything of note up there? Outside of the weeping mess I mean
>>96945002Because you posted this I've been on a Clarissa bender and have been reading these for over an hour.
>>96945327What splat?
>>96945404Do you think she would be a changeling?
are memes banali feel like they are, they just come and go, complete trends which 99.9% of the population is never even sure where they originate from, just a trend
>>96945429to a T
>>96945375It is just you two and the darkness, unless you count the weight of ages pressing down upon your souls...
>>96945437To me, "meme culture" feels much like a tabloid: pointless, flash-in-the-pan, but eye-catching.
>>96944226Try reading all the lore without ever planning on playing the games
>>96945415Vampire, 20th. Setting it in New York 2006
>>96945443Then he goes up to her and try to draw her attention. If she stops crying, he opens with a real witty line like "You come here often?"
>>96945437>>96945452>Two autumn people arguing that short, chaotic flashes of creativity should be classified as banalAutumnoids are even ruining the term banal, Can't make this shit up.
>>96945480“Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”― Oscar Wilde, De Profundis
>>96945437Memes are a Pentex plot. Regurgitated quipy idea forms, basically emblematic/heiroglyphic subversion of platonic ideals. They can show you a picture & know you'll generate a specific immediate thought. You see a cartoon dog in a burning house & think "this is fine". They've just programmed you. Its fucking cancer dude
>>96945473"Only when the pain is too much."She steps closer to the edge, then peers longingly below.
>>96945498now explain 6 7 in a way that sounds ominous and bleak
>>96945480Fuck you you retarded god damn ape. Memes are the fucking death of thought. Its not a flash of creativity. Its a prepackaged thought they feed you every second of every day, just eat it & keep scrolling, keep scrol,ling drip drip drip that serotonin. Are they really funny? Are you truly enjoying it? Everyone a little more & you'll swear youre liking it. Keep scrolling. Keep eating the toxic waste of comedy as everything become references to references until nothing matters but the feeling of having an inside joke with a thousand other people that are just as rotten inside.Don't fucking call people "Autumn People" when all you fucking have are prepackaged snide judgements of honest people. How about you show an ounce of proper creativity
I hurt myself todayTo see if I still feelI focus on the painThe only thing that's realThe needle tears a holeThe old familiar stingTry to kill it all awayBut I remember everythingWhat have I become?My sweetest friendEveryone I know goes awayIn the endAnd you could have it allMy empire of dirtI will let you downI will make you hurtI wear this crown of thornsUpon my liar's chairFull of broken thoughtsI cannot repairBeneath the stains of timeThe feelings disappearYou are someone elseI'm still right hereWhat have I become?My sweetest friendEveryone I know goes awayIn the endAnd you could have it allMy empire of dirtI will let you downI will make you hurtIf I could start againA million miles awayI would keep myselfI would find a way
>>96945498They sum up the triat perfectly, it's people that corrupt them. Pentex would be for pushing the death of memes, Mom wants them to last for ever by beating the horse until its dust and wyld makes them cancerous.
>>96945506He walks next to her and looks downHow's it going down there?
>>96945532Post a proper poem orbsong you make on the spot. Like I did, its not hard when you arent staring winter in the faceBanal winter tearsHark the anon posts drivelTrolling seeking (You)s
>>96945530>Autumnoid pissed he got called out.Wow, truth hurts don't it?
>>96945541No because its just references to references. There's no creative spark. Early memes & shitnlike race faces, were fine. They were interactive & fresh. Current internet is what happens when the wyvr shoves shit down the wyrms throat only to grab his excrement & shove it in again
Look I don't know about this Changeling shit, but seasons are objectively ranked:Winter > Autumn = Spring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summer
>>96945549A long road of thornsBlood drips from my flesh and soulPlease, don't close the gates.
>>96945498This is Silver Fang propaganda, outdated boomers can't make memes
>>96945513It is the epitome of mindless parroting of ideas, an inside joke with no punchline. It can't even claim to be a parody of humor, there is no conscious thought or purpose behind it. Just as the Tower of Babel fell as language fractured, so too will our society fall as language becomes hollow.I think people who genuinely get upset at this stuff are dumb, kids will do stupid frivolous shit and then grow older, as they always have
>>96945532Every time I hear this song, I imagine an old vampire about to embrace some random fucker.>If I could start againA million miles awayI would keep myselfI would find a wayAnd then run away. Only to start the circle again.
>>96945532So are you reading these and putting lyrics to them as you finish?
>>969455676 7 is now part of the lingo though
>>96945581Lingo that communicates no ideas. Language is meant to convey emotions and/or concepts, it does neither.
>>96945559Yeah, the release of creative work to the public and spread newer or weirder ideas is definitely the most banal thing a person can do. It's definitely not that you've become so bitter and jaded that exposure to childlike wonder causes you to recoil like a vampire struck by sunlight.No.It's definitely the children that are wrong.
>>96945581Seven ate nine.
>>96945554Post something authentic.I flower in springI can actually singWhat wit do you bring?So sad grey thing?You think that youre colorfulYour just throwin' gutter ballsMy rhythm is purposefulWhile all your posts are dullNow to turn it up to elevenIll rhyme with six sevenYoure gettin butthurt, and your cheeks are reddenMy soul is fire, Your soul is leaden
>>96945548She jumps. She looks so serene, tears trailing upward. The fall lasts six seconds, but you could swear that it was a snapshot of eternity.
>>96945567i don't exactly get upset at memes anymoremaybe i used to in the past but now i see a funny trend appear, like skibidi toilet, and then it blows up and everyone talks about skibidi toilet and now they're talking about 6 7 for some reasonto me in my eyes even if it may have any funny or soulful idea at the core, it quickly dies if it becomes a meme
>>96945598The whole court's come undone with this one.
>>96945600Dumbfounded, he looks until the end. Is the finale gory?
>>96945586It means so-so apparently, like an average state
>>96945620I haven't seen a single person use it in that context, but then again I don't really keep up with socials
>>96945598Your lines are fake, hollow, drivelusing rhyming, rhythmic, templates,Hiding empty, silent, stasisFreedom is lost to your vision
>>96945620Sounds like a backloaded definition but whatever. Figures normies would eventually get and weirdly shorten x/10
>>96945606I get that but some oldies are still quite good. They're just rare now because they're actually used in context
>>96945620No. The meaning is that it has no meaning and that's the meaning, it's meant to identify the "in"-crowd. It's like if you go to an event and see some edgy guy wearing a woof shirt while you're wearing a changling shirt. So you both slap each other on the ass. That's what 6 7 is.
>>96945598Anon, you're using rhyme to cover up the fact you got the syllable counts wrong.
They sit in front of their TVsSaying, “Hey! This is fun!”And they laugh at the artistSaying, “He doesn't know how to have fun.”The best things in life are truly freeSinging birds and laughing bees“You've got me wrong”, says he“The sun don't shine in your TV”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_RbSAwMa3U
>>96945598>>96945549Anons pissed off a real fae
>>96945616She is but a darkened smear upon the cavern floor. She now looks as dead as she feels. Such is life... or rather, death.
>>96945649Nah, just a califag who never "made it". The talentless scramble of words barely held together with rhyme is a clear sign.A true fae would actually be good at poetry.
>>96945659He wonders if she will stand up again like he thought the dead would doIs "Not dying again (fear)" a possible passion? Does he remember how he died?
>>96945683>Does he remember how he died?You remember feeling faint and cold, held by waxen hands just as lifeless and cold.[Now, I must part. Hopefully, this will give me practice for running a game at a real tabletop.]
>>96945634>furry and otherkin similarityWeird fetish
>>96945668He doesn't have the right posting pattern to be Californian. Plus he referred to ohioans as "buckeyes" you'd have to live in the midwest to know that
>>96945638My words dance to the music in my head, its a shame you cant hear it
Somewhere the bombing all has stoppedAnd people begin to sit and talkAnd somewhere insomniatic stockbrokers can rest their bloodshot eyesCause there's nothing left to buy or sellOr kill or die for anymoreWe're living inside eternal moments that we've searched for all our livesThere's nobody living by the clockAnd every door is left unlockedCause property died all alone and capitalism lost its homeThere's plenty of fresh air here in townAnd plants are growing on the carsAnd all of the streets are used for dancingAnd at night you see all the starsWe're searching for something that was lostAnd centuries all have covered upWe're flailing to find the smallest fragments of our liberated livesAnd every tiny piece we findWe pick up and glue togetherCollectively working for our utopian futures to collideIn snuggly beds and midnight talksIn wandering bike rides and wayward walksMaking up all of our own music, art, myth, food and newsIt's happening everywhere we goCollective bookstores and basement showsSharing a song that we all know or making up new ones as we goI'm a dream, this is realI'm a dream, you are hereI'm a dream, you are meI'm a dream, we are freeNow can't you feel the ice caps grow?Now can't you hear the forests laughAt piles of nicely packaged toothpicks all in processed warehouse rowsCause the only processing we do nowIs with one another in our homesWith people we'll fight, fuck, laugh and cry withUntil the day we dieHere where we share all that we've wonHere where we grieve for what is lostHere where the children grow with names they chose and genders all their ownHere where we celebrate each otherHere where you've never had a bossHere where we sing like restless kids with half-chewed food inside our mouthsHere in the place outside the boxThere are no more borders left to crossFrom each according to ability and to each based on needHere in the place where dreams aren't deadHere in the space between our heads
>>96945698Good luck ST
>>96944226I only ST'd games and never played them as a player
>>96945773I want to play Wraith or Mage but finding someone willing to do it in my area is impossible and I don't want to gamble on the online. I'd do VtM online though as the degeneracy is probably just an element of the game
Large cities may be Weaver oriented, but anyone who's spent an hour in a NYC subway knows that there's plenty of Wyld there too.
>>96945778homeless man piss and shit?
>>96945778>>96945782The eldest seeping upward
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I read blogs by scientistsAnd I believe they know more than we are being toldBy the mainstream media sources, want the truth to hold its horsesSo there isn't mass hysteria as the sea floor erodesAnd those in and on the ocean all say, "Hey, what's this commotion?"And try to get away, they are moving in slow motion'Cause their bodies are so heavy from a substance thick and deadlyThey say, "I don't want to die, it's all your fault, I wasn't ready"And I'm sorry and I'm scared and sad and mad and unpreparedTo see the stuff that's in the sea evaporate into the airWhere it will gather and form clouds that travel north upon the windDrop its cool refreshing poison raindrops on our crops and childrenAnd maybe it's the end, I always thought the end of man would beExactly what we need for the earth to stand a chanceAnd I always thought that I'd be fine if this happened in my lifetimeNow that I'm a mother, it is really terrifyingBut I've always identified with the turtle's soft insidesBecause there are times when I really need to hideBut even the strongest, toughest, thickest shell is not designedTo survive, to survive, to survive something of this magnitudeBecause water is fluid and oil is crudeAnd it billows way down deep and it sticks to grains of sandAnd it floats up on the surface where the birds all try to landAnd it's ruining the marshes, ecosystems are destroyedAnd the people all along the gulf coast are now unemployed
>>96945761https://youtu.be/cPhklT21aiU
>>96945791>>96945791While the men who cut the corners still scream, "Drill, drill, drill"From their yachts far away and their mansions on the hillAnd they turn away the cameras and scream, "Kill, kill, kill"As they burn endangered sea turtles aliveThey're burning turtles aliveAnd the seas are all connected and we are all connectedAnd you're living in denial if you think you won't be affectedYou can't hide behind your flag because water knows no borderIt'll creep in every crevice, it'll seep in every poreThey lie about the damage, the solutions are illusionsThere's no cover-up big enough to hide this huge a contusionOn the face of our mother, yeah, that's right, Mother EarthIs the cost of every living thing what your product is worth?We are all afflicted with an underground addictionWill our desire for convenience be the cause of our extinction?The industry's the master and we are all the slavesAnd we're driving, driving, driving to our graves, graves, graves
>>96945801The industry's the master, we are all the slavesAnd we're driving, driving, driving to our graves, graves, gravesGraves, graves, graves, graves, graves, gravesSo we must teach our kids to love themselvesAnd let them live their livesWhat will they be if they grow up? Whatever they likeIt's crucial to raise children who won't do what they're toldWho will fight for what's right and who can't be bought or soldI want nothing of this business, I'm staying undergroundI'm gonna ride the railroad and let my guard downWe can forage and ride bikes, jump in lakes, go on hikesWe can sing and sing for hours and click 'like', 'like', 'like'When somebody posts something good we share and spread the truthIt's time to define what success means to youI hope my kid will never be another cog in their machineTrapped inside a box trying to remember her dreamsThey'll sell us all out for their greed, greed, greedAs we cry for the earth while she bleeds, bleeds, bleedsBleeds, bleeds, bleeds, bleeds, bleeds, bleedsSo hold onto to your loved ones, hold on for dear lifeTry to walk like thunder leaving footprints that are lightHold onto to your loved ones, hold on for dear lifeTry to walk like thunder leaving footprints that are light
>>96945532I think it's funny that most of the Autumn People statted out in this book only became the way they did because some evil Changeling abused them at some point.
>>96945782>>96945778So this is where the fabled Bone Gnawer GFs are for the taking
Anons I need help. I'm trying to flesh out Lilith lore for something cross splat and I'm kinda stuck on three of 'em.>CtDThis at least makes reference to her with the Lilin and how some of them refer to vampires. Easy enough to branch it to a creator figure that had dealings with fae.>WtONot mention of any connection unless one treated Lady of Fate being Eve as serious. Even then she has no real connection and I'm grasping at straws that don't involve Grandmother or the labyrinth connecting somewhere.>WtAThinnest connection, less than the association with Eve, and that's if I went with Gaia=Ziana. I suppose a link could be made if I used one of Ennoia's endgame things and Ennoia being her daughter.My initial idea was something basic like Lilith's just perceived as a three-faced being or a gestalt of the triat that's rarely realized because experienced balance and serenity is needed.Am I just doing too much to cover bases? I think I might be.
>>96945869What is it you're trying to do with Lilith precisely? It would be easier to iron that out and then find lore snippets from each game to explain or further flesh out your idea.
>>96945720Only Ohioans themselves are lame enough to talk about Ohio. I know this as an Ohioan.
>>96945869Lilith is a primordial human of some kind, who was cursed by God whoever he is, Awakened as a Mage at some point, then took Caine in and tried to Awaken him but it failed for some reason (the nature of his curse, or simply his own behavior in his vision) and then he betrayed her. The questions you need to answer is how Adam/Lilith/Eve relate to the origin of humans in general (which only really has issue with how WtA presents humanity) and who God is (which every splat has its own answer for, you just need to accept the one you like best.) Lilith herself is adequately explained by Vampire and Mage with only a couple holes you need to fill in yourself, I'm not sure why you need to connect her to some concept in Wraith or Werewolf (and her connection to the Fae is legit just that she had dealings with them, which is fine enough.)
>>96945883what's in ohio anyways
>>96945936The stuff of Nightmare.
>>96945893>>96945880I was trying for a more refined and, I guess, focused lilin following that formed in the shadow of the week of nightmares. The toj prank that was said week led to things aligning to where as the group grew, initially from vamps and kine, it began to attract the fringes of the other splats.So a small Verbena coven is nestled among its thorns, a Cryptic demon's cult following is grafted on, fae possibly circle 'em for glamour. The local hunter cell gets seeded when they're clearing out other threats.A kind of odd monolith I could have in the background despite which splats I use to serve as connective issue like Pentex can. Admittedly my one wraith thing was that a Risen or two find shelter in the garden's shade. Woof link would probably be a pack of Furies negotiating a deal that let them help protect a scared site that resides in the garden.
>>96946004Sounds like you just want the Bahari. Their main lorebook is Revelations of the Dark Mother (written in-universe by a zealous feminazi that's considered a crank by the rest of the cult) and they're mentioned in V20 Black Hand and Cults of the Blood Gods. They have Mage and Wraith members, so there's the crossover tissue you want.
>>96945869Lillith is an eternally offended stupid bitch doing whatever she can to get back at Adam. She was just some human that Adam married & so she put on airs & thought that it would make her his equal when that isnt good enough for her she runs off to fuck Lucifer, Adam's sworn enemy. This makes her the first witch who ever got magic from fucking a demon. Eve is created out of Adam to be his true equal, but it also ties their fates together. Lillith tricks Eve with the apple because she's jealous of Eve & will literally spend the rest of her life trying to destroy wholesome femininity because of it. Later she runs into Caine who used to be a Mage but with his new vampire nature his magic is kind of fucked as it cant work given such a drastic change. Lillith isnt a real Mage like Adam & his kids but she knows a bunch of secrets Lucifer told her & so she teaches him how to change his praxis or whatever to "Blood & Vampire shit" which lays the ground work for Disciplines. She teaches him this & takes him in because she planned on using him as a weapon against Adam, but Caine is too wrapped up in being a sad angry hobo & bounces after getting some of his dad's & Lucifer's sloppy seconds. Abel, murdered by Caine goes to rule the underworld, & watch over the Oblivion tear in reality. Lillith will flit out of reality to the abyss of Oblivion so there's a small connection there. Lillith has at least one garden floating out there. Eve is also in the underworld watching iver her son.
>>96945936A bunch of Sons of Ether trying to claim the stars
>>96946045This version isn't really consistent with any described in oWoD lore but kinda takes bits of it and twists it, then mixes it with personal vibes on how real-world Judaism looks at Lilith. Which is pretty cool in a headcanon way, definitely can run with it in your games, but shouldn't be treated like facts desu.
>>96946032Yeah they fit to a degree. That's what refluffing's for. I suppose it was the scope of thing that was stumping me. I know cults can vary in size but it always read as being on the small side to me. Small but numerous because of their "heretical" nature. And I didn't really want small and shaky.Although do you remember any of the wraith characters or their book?
>>96946071Its all canon. Just excluding the dumb profeminist shit like Lillith fucking God & just wanting to make her own garden that totes better than god's & lucifer's gardens & how she was raped by Adam & how she's oh so much better than him.
>>96946096>Its all canon. Just excluding the dumb profeminist shitAka, you took canon and excluded the bits you didn't like and replaced them with headcanon. Which fine and cool and all, we all do it, the only issue I'm really taking is acting like you disliking lore makes it not exist. This isn't an edition argument or something where it got retconned, anon.
>>96946096Okay anon, just like god seething at Caine is too.
>>96945869I always kind of suspected that at one point Lilith was going to be revealed to be Lailah but the writers changed their minds.
>>96946101I take the view that all in universe lore can be used or discarded as in universe lies. Im not so much plugging in my own headcanon as just picking & choosing what I consider canon. Its semantics & I apologize for being argumentative about it, but I feel like its a valid distinction.
>>96946122Discarding it isn't really headcanoning it, so much as you doing things like definitively claiming she wasn't a Mage (when her being one is HEAVILY suggested) or was the Serpent (when there are other possibilities) or especially you imagining motivations that are never stated and insisting on them. Headcanon is when you step beyond the bounds of just tossing out canon, and invent new things to fill the gaps left by you tossing things out.
>>96946120I think she was going to be Luna, too. By Revised, the Exalted, Demon, and Vampire writers all hated each other, and there was also a philosophical conflict over whether Lilith should be Chuuni Feminist Best Girl, a cosmic abusive mom/battered wife, or a savage wild lady. So, they probably just agreed to shut up about her.
>>96946140Exalted Luna had already basically been severed from WtA Luna by the time of 2e, both Exalted's and oWoD's 2e, anyway, they gave up on the whole Exalted -> WoD thing.
>>96946138She's never declared as a Mage & its more likely the stuff she learned from Lucifer was magic power. Her possibly being the serpent is even in the wikihttps://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lilith_(WOD)You got me on the motivations though. Sorry I guess, but they are very likely given my select interpretation.
>>96946162Note the language in my own post. "HEAVILY suggested," "other possibilities." I am very careful to avoid saying what she definitively is, even when discussing alternatives proposed in canon. I'm not saying she was declared anything.
>>96936700God fucking dammit It turns out the five different brownoid taxi drivers were actually cain using disciplines to disguise himself Though he did impersonate actual peoples Well played GM well played you threw us off until the malk realised that all these taxi drivers were the same person Also funny that it’s a new taxi every night
how subjective may the status of a clan be?i know salubri aren't a clan *anymore* but they are still around, even if their numbers can be counted on a few hands. what made them lose clan status?are clans just bloodlines that need enough presence and numbers to be considered a clan? do bloodlines need to trace their lineage to an antediluvian to be considered a clan? in that case, let's say if nictuku started gaining significant presence and numbers, could they become a clan, even if they don't replace clan nosferatu?and if clan status is subjective, are there any clans that don't consider the validity of status of other clans? just like how china and taiwan may not consider each other real countries, or the north/south koreas.
>>96946222>what made them lose clan status?Politics.
>>96946227okay, so it is just presence + numbers?what about the second part of the question. are there main clans that denounce the status of other clans?
>>96946222>are clans just bloodlines that need enough presence and numbers to be considered a clan?I'd say combination of lineage, numbers, disciplines, and the cain curse. Remember disciplines helped demarcate them in a power sense. While Cain curse acted as further proof. Because a toreador will have the toreador combo+weakness.The nictuku would probably be a special case in the vein of city gangrel if they got the numbers to compare to Medusa and Baba's lines. So a more obvious antitribu despite ostensibly being the 'main' bloodline
>>96946140>Chuuni Feminist Best GirlI like this one now that you put it that way. Cosmic failgirl that empowers other failgirls.
>>96945776My preferred VtM lore headcannon is a Frankenstein monster of v20 and v5, so nobody but me is able to ST in it but me
>>96945869Unfortunately, Lilith is basically VTM only. She is basically the writer's pet Mary Sue.Hell, she doesn't even exist in DTF and they went through the whole Caine and Abel business multiple times. Lucifer also didn't bang any Lilith, to the point VTM Time of Judgement makes up their own Lucifer explicitly. Which is funny when Caine is in multiple splat, to the point Mage ToJ basically says Caine is the first Mage, who made the first focus and the reason why people don't Awaken thanks to his actions.
>>96944589If the "making my victims better" thing was treated as a straight-up cope alternative to the low morality equivalent, then that could be appropriate.>>96944968John Kramer never did anything wrong, it waas all his apprentices fault I tell ya.
>>96944461>someone steals candy from children>Let's teach him a lesson by poisoning the candies, traumatizing him by nearly choking him to death with a plastic bag, give him permanent nightmares and turn his house into a lair.>Heroes come, learns about her, possibly from his victim>Heroes are bullies
>>96946233>>96946222I'd say it's a combination of multiple things.Being able to trace your bloodline to a direct descendant of a known antediluvian is definitely a big plus. Especially if your powers are emblematic of one of the curses of Caine. I mean that's basically one of the things everyone shits on thinbloods for, you can barely tell they're vampires. How can you be a proper bloodline if you're only kinda ugly instead of Nosferatu-tier ugly?But they don't HAVE to trace it back to Cain. Tremere are a clan after all.Numbers is also definitely a thing. I mean it's in the name "Clan". Can't be a clan if there's only a handful of you.And if there's not that many of you, then your clan as a collective has less overall power. Less presence to fight for your own interests when it comes to vamp politics or even just territory.With your country/validity argument, isn't that basically what happens with Ventrue/Lasombra antitribu? Each one thinks that they're retarded for betraying the faction that they essentially created?In WoD, the world is supposed to be more mysterious and isolated, and Western vamps barely know about the Kuei Jin. I suppose that if you're some clan from Asia or Africa you wouldn't be considered a "Clan", but that's mostly due to ignorance. IIRC the Camarila deny the existance of antedilluvians in the first place. So I suppose the validity of a clan by a group may vary depending on how knowledgeable the person you're asking is.
So who would win in Lucifer vs Caine vs Lilith?
>>96946515God eating the popcorn.
>>96946515The problem here is that there can't be a definitive end to that fight since God in WoD put his thumb on the scale for Caine. It doesn't matter what you do, God won't let Caine die.
>>96946515Team up of the century as they pull god into the ring. This monday at sacrifice!
>>96944331I want to take this opportunity to thank whichever anon maintains the MEGA archives. Wouldn’t have gotten as deep into WoD without your help
>>96946222Clan is entirely subjective. The only real thing that determines who is a clan and who is not is if the other clans say that you are one of them. Noddist nonsense is a post-facto justification explaining it, but just look at the Tremere and Giovanni. And you can throw Caine existing out the window if you want anyways, I personally find it more interesting to take all the crazed threads of suggested canon anyway.
>>96946837You'd keep him as a farmer though, right? It's like the funniest bit.
>>96946515dtf lucifer does not seem to be on the same level as the other two anymore as he is also cut from heaven and also got hit by his own faith related nerfs to demon kind this is shown in his appearance in city of angels where he burns through his entire faith ration and has to run because he is pretty much powerless afterwards (Book even gives the st the story option to say that he burned through so much it might even kill him although he shows up later in toj book)and we know lilith does not think that she can beat even a weakened caine even when the mark of caine is optional depending on the stso Caine >weakened Caine> Lilith >>> Lucifer
>>96946222You need to be able to claim the lineage of an antideluvian, & have enough numbers & influence to hold your own.In example Tremere were a bloodline until Tremere drank Saulot. Giovanni were a bloodline until the wops drank Capppy. Or like the Brujah & the True Brujah, where they both claim the lineage but one has far more influence than the other
>>96946222The Tzimisce don't recognise the Tremere as a proper clan. They don't really recognise tgem as proper vampires.The Harbingers of skulls (Cappadocians) don't count the Giovanni as a proper clan. Which is extra funny in light of v5 making the Giovanni and Harbingers of Skull part of the same group, while explicitly keeping the motivation of the Harbingers to kill all Giovanni. The v5 Hecate explicitly has a group within it that openly wants to destroy the clan and everyone knows and its just ok.
>>96946515Easily Caine. Even if the infernal power couple teamed up Caine is going to win. It would take ST fiat (ToJ Lillith ending) to have him loose. The motherfucker is a Mage who invented Murder. He could kill anyone he wanted with very little consequence or effort. Even his weaknesses are optional for him. His beef is with God, a philosophical argument about the role of humanity. Only God or the powers of God can truly harm him.
>>96945480Better get yourself a warm coat, winter is coming and it's gonna be a harsh one.
>>96946222>and if clan status is subjective, are there any clans that don't consider the validity of status of other clans?there are several lines that might be "clans" or considered themselves to be a clan but don't have the numbers to back them up:acording to the Ravnos and Gangrel the Lhiannan are a clan that originated in india with them but betrayed them in their war against the kuei jin but they don't have the numbers so most vamps don't even know they exist and those who do think of them as a irish druid gangrel bloodlinethe baali considered themselves a clan but they kinda go their shit beaten in by the rest of undead kind 3 or 4 timesthe laibon consider the clans to just be bloodlines while the european kindred (that are aware of them) consider the legacies to be the bloodlines. exception being the setites who both consider to be a clan of untrustworthy snake cultists, but setites themselves lean towards clans instead of legacies being the true major bloodlines of kindred kindthe sabbat considers both city and country gangrel to be equally gangrel while most others consider city gangrel to be a bloodline and the true black hand for some reason considers city gangrel to be aborminations who abbandoned the way of their clan founder despite being fine with other bloodlinesdue to some weirdness involving some asian vampires who been printed before kote came out it was retconned that, at least before the great leap outwards, cainites assumed that bushi and gaki are weird asian clans while the kuei jin in turn don't know about the clans and think that cainites belong to 7 weird western dharmas
Is there a spider themed vampire bloodline/clan? It'd be cool to see some spiders vampires that create poison & maybe blood webs
>>96947420vtm has Akunanse and vtr has the Malocusianwho are very different takes on the spider vampire theme
>>96947420Well, there are spider shapeshifters that drink blood
>>96947576>>96947576>>96947576
