>TQ
Never. I never cared for the aesthetic of Pathfinder so I never had any desire to flip through much content for it, let alone use the books. A huge part of the reason I love 3.5 (besides the fact that its the edition I grew up playing) is the artwork and the "feel" of the world/settings. Pathfinder is so... bright and peppy and cartoonish. No thank you

>TQ
My DM has allowed it for the last 8 years, only that you can not mix and match the systems. If you use anything PF, all your stuff must be PF to prevent absurd minmax (PF local feats mixing with the lesser requirements of 3.5 feats for example, also spells).
I'm running the werewolf lord revenant blade elf, and just 1v1'd a champion of Malar, because fuck the lyccies.

>TQ
Back during PF's beta, our DM intended to transition our campaign to it eventually, so for a while we had a weird mix between 3.5 stuff and PF stuff until the full game came out

File: Consecrated Harrier.png (471 KB, 765x749)

471 KB PNG

I came up with a new E6 build I'm pretty happy with.
>3 levels of Dirty Fighter for 2d6 sneak attack
>2 levels of Hunter Barbarian class variant for fast movement and combat style
>1 level of Consecrated Harrier
The Harrier's "blessing of scripture" stacks with the preferred enemy from Hunter Barbarian if you are in a campaign where you fight a lot of humans which is cool. Full attack bonus progression plus sneak attack dice is sweet. You can take the Frail flaw without thinking twice about it because you're basically a stealth archer with full fighter/barbarian hit dice. You could go Zen archery if you're trying to get more ranger spells. Harrier does have to be lawful so in a non E6 campaign you couldn't take more barbarian levels later down the line, but since hunter eschews rage anyways you aren't missing much. I haven't come up with a new build to try out in a while so I'm pretty pleased with this one. There are other PrCs you could take instead that are maybe better but this is the one I liked the flavor of the best. Invisible Blade turns this into a sick throwing dagger build but I'm not much of a throwing guy myself. Kensai if you're running in a low magic world where a +1 bow would be impractical to get otherwise. The world is really your oyster.

>>96947623
We ran a PF campaign where the DM allowed martials to take the 3.5 versions of many feats after seeing how PFed nerfed so many of them.
I still have no clue how the PF devs saw the martial/caster disparity and thought to themselves that casters were the ones in need of the biggest buffs.

On a side tangent, Is there a list of (in)famous optimized character builds for pathfinder 1e like there was for 3e/3.5?

>>96946036
>couldn't she turn into a humanoid without damage reduction
I think she still keeps her DR in all her shapes:
>https://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#changeShape
>The creature retains all... and qualities of its original form
>Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form
>>96947623
+1 as doing it now with the Slumbering Tsar campaign
>>96947735
agree with you on the artwork, though I would take it further and say the shift began in 3.5.
Ad&d and 2e art is overall better, though some anons did come up with nice examples from 3rd edition that I was not aware of at the time, last time I brought this up.

One thing I like about 3pp material is that it also comes with different artistic takes on the setting and monsters. Not a lot - they are all poors and have less cash to spend. But there are some that hit the right note for me.

Why did you merge these threads? Are we getting trolled?

>>96947818
Yeah, sneak attack characters are really strong in E6. Two Dirty Fighters with some flanking feats is outright gangbang.

>>96947869
Oh yeah, absolutely. One of the craziest ones from a combat perspective is from the Alchemist class. Combine the Vivisectionist and the Beastmorph archetypes for the class (archetypes mostly replaced Prestige classes when it came to altering how you played a class), and combine that with getting a Tumor Familiar from the list of Discoveries you get every even level (make sure to give it the Protector Familiar Archetype), and you'd basically have an unstoppable murder machine with double the health pool of any other character at that level, ridiculous attack rolls that all hit at a higher bonus than the martials because they are all Natural Attacks and thus go at your highest BaB, and fast healing not only for yourself but also for your familiar, which has DR as well as taking half of the damage you would have taken. Oh, and also the Vivisectionist gives you Sneak Attack damage with all of your natural attacks equivalent to what you'd get as a Rogue, with an AC much higher due to your Mutagen giving you a boost to Natural Armor AND having very little reason not to take the feats for heavier armor to also make you incredibly difficult to hit in the first place.

The only real weakness this build has is that it's not great at Will saves, but there's a fun little synergy where if you go for getting heaver armor you can also get the Mind Buttressing enchantment on it to make you immune to any effects that might want to take control of your mind. It's nuts.

I don't play pathfinder but I do play 3.5. Why did you combine these threads? I want to discuss 3.5 specifically.

>>96947928
>>96947976
If I had to guess, it's because of the BROSR trolls that have ruined the /osrg/ in their desire for purity. The don't like 2e or NuSR being discussed in the OSR, so they've been performing a pretty psychotic campaign in regards to that, including making separate 2e and NuSR generals and saying people should go to those instead.
Now, we're seeing a falseflag maneuver from the same guy who made this post >>96947953, hoping to put the blame on the people who are saying we don't need three separate generals to discuss OSR. Basically, we're talking about a troll so shameless, he doesn't care what he drags into his shitposting crusade.

>>96947968
Alchemists seemed the dark horse of pf classes.
I saw a dedicated bomb thrower just wreck fights on it's own. Even had a hired meatshield to distract for him.

>>96948043
Yeah they really made it so that you can do just about anything with that class and you'll likely do well. 6th level casting, being able to boost their ability scores with an Alchemical bonus with the Mutagen, bombs, even just the base class is REALLY good, and so a lot of the archetypes are really good too.

I don't care about Pathfinder. As a reference material or a point of comparison of how there are actually ways to have worse balance decisions than Wizards it's interesting, but you shouldn't merge the generals.

>>96947976
There was a lengthy discussion about doing it in the last thread with almost nobody objecting to it. I am not a fan of Pathfinder/broader D20 ofshoots but I'm not about to sperg out about it.

>>96948040
Hi anon, I'm >>96947953. I didn't make this merger-thread and I was aghast at its creation. Stop blaming me for fishfag's autism. Thanks!

>>96948043
imo they seem like a happy accident of devs not really paying attention to how all the shit combines together more than an intentionally good class, especially with all the bizarre asterisks attached. They're an arcane magical bomber/potion class that doesn't qualify as an arcane caster for anything (like arcane strike or crafting feats), and a poison class in a system where player poisons suck ass. Most of its archetypes suck ass to a degree that feels borderline spiteful, but that's pretty normal for pf classes so lmao.

>>96948091
Considering how you've given this board no reason to trust anything you say and every reason to doubt you, all I can say is you really need to stop treating us all like we're complete idiots and using every form of trolling and shitposting you can come up with just to try and get your autistic way. Samefagging, spamming, flooding, ban-evading, nothing is beneath you.
Don't reply; it will only make things worse for you. Leave these threads, hell, leave this board alone.

>>96947932
Progression is "as a rogue" so you are generally taking either 1 level or 3, but yeah dirty fighter is definitely a core tool in E6. Its still always nice to find a novel way to utilize familiar tools. I wish there were more interesting ways to build casters in E6 but missing out on a single level of caster progression really sets you back.

File: behold, a cleric.png (6 KB, 539x157)

6 KB PNG

>>96947735
I love the "vibes" of the 3.5e books, even with the variation.

>>96947590
>3 Ordained Champion
>8 Knight of the Raven
Yup. Sounds about right.
Had our DM not allowed me to take The Righteous Cohort from Dragonlance, my character would have ended up with a split kind of like that.
I considered Fist of Raziel PRC too, but KotR is just much cooler, even if the constant magic circle against evil is rad as fuck.

>>96948040
So you're telling us that you got bullied so hard in osrg that you decided to start shitting all over us and make a troll thread instead of dealing with it like an adult?

>>96948040
>Purity
Osrg has had the same op about what is and is not on topic for six fucking years.
Nusr is categorically off topic, and 2e is not only off topic, but not discussed by anyone even in the threads dedicated to it.

I genuinely hope that you accidentally dox yourself one day

>>96948078
That discussion was one idiot with an axe to grind who wanted the merger, and all conversation about why they wanted it to happen. None of the ideas of Pathfinder they wanted to explore, no topics for discussion, just enjoying the fact they were pissing people off.

File: elegent birds.gif (1.71 MB, 270x138)

1.71 MB GIF

>get btfo so hard you have to start trolling 3.5 and pathfinderfags to drum up support for whatever fishwit plan you have
lmao

>>96948040
You genuinely need medication and mental health treatment. What the fuck is your problem

>>96948153
I feel like there was a really good reason I was doing favored soul over cleric in my build but I'm at work now so I can't pour through the pages to figure it out. I'd never heard of that PrC before so I checked it out, looks sweet. Are there any class features from it you feel you get the most value out of?

>>96948185
Sounds like the BrOSR troll is hoping to try and pretend his purity issue should become your purity issue.

I think he wants to try and present 3.5 and Pathfinder as being analogous to 1e and 2e, to try and present an argument that he is just like the people who want to keep the Paizo general separate from the 3.5 one. Considering he's already made a post confirming that he's trying to mislead the board, it's fair to consider him just trying to stir shit up in his typical trolling fashion.

Of course, the OSR is much bigger than just 1e, and the attempted analogy completely falls apart when this is pointed out. But, these kind of trolls have never been particularly good at logic or arguments, which is why they do shit like whatever the fuck he's doing right now.

>>96948185
Nice misrepresentation, it might even be believable if the previous threads weren't literally available in the OP for people to read.
>>96948078
There is the unfortunate issue is that there is one anon constantly pissing and shitting himself over the thread merger. Purity spiral idiots aren't just in "brOSR".
I imagine he'll calm down after the next few threads continue on unabated.

>>96948134
Well, for wizards there are a lot of builds. Like a shitton of them. And way more of them are viable in E6 than in games that go to higher levels. My personal favorite is doing most serious NPC wizards into Focused Specialist/Master Specialist mixes - not as good for PCs, but for them you can give them Minor School Esoterica as an "epic" feat.
Sorcerers can gobble up all the Bloodline Feats.
Druids are still fucking druids - a lot of wildshape feats are still in reach.

Clerics and Bards do suffer from way less variety. Though Clerics still can go Devotion route.

>>96948276
>>96948285
>purity spiral
You've given the game away, fishfag. You're just banking on the 3.5 guys not knowing your playbook.
>Of course, the OSR is much bigger than just 1e
Mhm, there's OD&D, BX, and BECMI too. Not 2e though.

How can we get rid of these BROSR?

>>96948299
By taking your fucking medication, what the fuck does some 1eAdvanced DnD blog have to do with this Pathfinder thread?

>>96947968
Nice! Got any links? I'm thinking of making a combined shitbrew setting for d20, but I'm mostly a d20/3.5fag trying to dip my toes into pathfinder's system quirks.
I got my bearings GMing in 3.5 by looking into Giantitp's famous optimized character builds where the systems breaks under stress.

>we will never know if PF/D20 content will shit up and ruin the thread because we have to shit up and ruin the thread arguing about it instead
I love you guys you're so silly

>>96948325
You just described /tg/ as a whole.
the /cyoag/ & /mcyoag/ split was useless too, given how people still talk about multiplayer and build interactions in /cyoag/. If you try to bring that up though, /mcyoag/ pisses itself in it's need to purity-cope.

>>96948294
>purity spiral
Anon, this is a common term in the united states political climate thanks to recent events. Your boomer beefs are irrelevant.

>>96948299
Half the internet is trying to figure that out. They've been trolling just about everywhere that OSR is discussed, and we're not talking regular, human-level trolling, but the insane sort of gaslighting shit that goes down in places like Facebook/Twitter and similar shitholes.
The only hope we have here is to not be as dumb as they imagine we are.

>>96948185
He does the same thing in the old school D&D threads. He doesn't actually discuss the games ever, he screeches about how the thread isn't constructed the way he wants it to be, and that if we don't agree with him, we are disruptive trolls.
Not only is he ESL but he also doesn't even understand the basic terms that he is using, leading me to believe that he has never once played a game in his life.
(He has also refused for over 2 weeks to post a character sheet as proof that he plays, he claims that the reason for this is because his gaming group uses this very website, and if he posts his own character sheet, they will recognize his handwriting, and then somehow they will know that he goes to the website that he knows that they go to?)

File: bait.jpg (9 KB, 194x259)

9 KB JPG

The easiest thing to do right now is to not bite the obvious bait posts.
Anons are already funposting around the anon sperging out, just reply to them and ignore the moron.

>>96948384
That's on me for letting him get a toehold then. I acquiesced creation of the new thread on the grounds that if it were either genuine interest or puerile malfeasance it would manifest, and manifest it has. I'm not exactly going to fire off a new thread and add a thread war to this but if people keep bickering it might be preferable to this lasting a week.

File: James Jacobs on Paladin.png (189 KB, 1387x501)

189 KB PNG

>>96947623
Given I only ever played PF1e, I've meen meaning to ask 3.5e-only-heads how they felt about the variant Paladins (like Paladin of Freedom), because I always lamented them not being ported to PF1e and found James Jacobs kind of a loser for his arbitrary justification of not doing so among other reasons given all the other insane shit in that system

>TQ
I've had GMs allow access to minor stuff, like spells or feats, from 3.5e. I have a wizard with Greater Mage armor, for example. Runestaffs showed up once and they seemed super sick, too, kinda sad I didn't get to use them more.

>>96948427
Will you stop fucking replying to yourself already? The jannies can see your IP.

>>96948438
Variant Paladins really only exist to let you play a Paladin and still qualify for alignment locked PrCs. In terms of gameplay/flavor they are pretty uninteresting

>>96948438
Personally I fucking LOVE paladins of freedom. Super cool.

>>96948453
I don't think you really appreciate the level of autism you're about to witness. He can shitpost for hours to himself.

>>96948457
I don't disagree with you but I've also never understood the allure of playing a paladin in general. It always felt like a "main character" class choice with too many bells and whistles but not any actual identity beyond flavor.

>>96948438
Irori's Paladin exists - you get to make your own oath. For me it was more than enough. As this anon says >>96948457 mechanically they were pretty meh.

>>96948438
Variant paladins have always been a pretty retarded idea to a lot of people, but it's one the devs came up with before 3e was a thing.
The point of the paladin class was to be a knight and/or noble that was so moral that the gods themselves took notice and rewarded you. That's why it was a straight upgrade to human male fighter, because it was that plus extra requirements. Gygax based it of IRL european legends of genuinely good nobility(a rarity) having saint-like abilities from god's favor(and also king arthur, but you already knew that).
The idea that you can be a paladin of any alignment kinda shits all over the original intent.

>>96948363
You seriously, genuinely and authentically need mental health treatment

>>96948507
I mean, if you're pulling from the Arthurian ideal of a Christian god blessing a knight, D&D has a lot of gods with their own ideals, and primordial concepts deeper than gods. Why couldn't they have their own champions?

>>96948453
LMAO fucking retard, did you check your spam folder yet KEK

>>96948484
Honestly I really like Paladins but I don't know why they have to be their own class. Everything a paladin is trying to be should be achieved through a fighter/cleric cross class. The hybrid class problem is real imo. Usually a paladin is just a fighter but worse or a cleric but worse.

>>96948483
This:>>96948404 is the only real solution to anons like that. Autistic shitposting and samefagging can't be maintained forever. If you ignore him, he'll eventually get bored and leave.

>>96948320
So all of PF1e's resources for character building are actually available for free on two sites, one fully fanmade (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/) and one technically supported by the devs (https://aonprd.com/)

Not gonna lie, part of the reason why I switched over to PF is solely because unlike WoTC who for some reason gatekeep their content with the fury of a thousand suns, even if it's for old systems they no longer support, comparing that to Paizo's support of having the content easily accessed was a breath of fresh air.

>>96948525
Same issue as ranger in some ways, but the fact most martials are 'fighter but worse' is more due to the fact that feats are stronger and more flexible than most class abilities. Not exactly a new problem.

>>96948534
Yeah, it's a hell of an advantage. The megas even show that PF1e has a massive 3rd party community
My main barriers to switching were actually getting overwhelmed by the PFSRD, and the lack of prestige classes. When every core class has 40+ variants on it's main page thanks to archetypes and racial variants, my autism brain reverts to monkey.
I got filtered so fucking hard.

>>96948427
At this point osrg has been dealing with him for years, and it's to the point now where we will have four concurrent threads all fighting and arguing the exact same bullshit in each.
He screeches about games he hates and games he likes, but he never discusses the games, he doesn't have any character sheets, and he is so painfully ESL that I'm almost positive at this point he is a paid Indian demoralization wagie

>>96948537
That's what made the ToB controversy so funny to me. The first time "Fighter, but Better" was released was the moment the community lost its mind and declared that book public enemy number one.

>>96948525
They kinda were in AD&D - paladin and fighter were subclasses of Warrior.

>>96948528
>>96948276
>>96948483
>I'm going to spam the thread with my retarded schizo delusions instead of talking about games.
Bro STFU and go back to your faggot thread.

Btw the alchemist is my favorite class. I was happy to see it represented in the pathfinder crpgs.

Given how different Pathfinder and 3.5 treat alchemy, I wonder weird there interactions will get if you mix the 2.
Especially when considering Official?/3rd? party material like ravenloft introducing things like the ability to fucking Clone people with alchemy.

File: Dragonlance - Holy Order (...).jpg (2.23 MB, 3304x2175)

2.23 MB JPG

>>96948261
>. Are there any class features from it you feel you get the most value out of?
I kind of lost the plot. Are you asking about the Knight of the Raven, Fist of Raziel, or The Righteous Cohort?
From a battle Cleric perspective:
Knight of the Raven has a bunch of little features that are really nice when they come up.
Fist of Raziel gives the permanent Magic Circle Against evil right at level 1, and eventually you every weapon you wield is has the Holy Enhancement for free, although that's only after 10 lvls of the class. Smites and free some extra damage early one is nice too.
The Righteous Cohort has a bunch of essentially ribbon features as far as my character is concerned, but it's the same chasis as the Cleric with full spellcasting and it gets some fighter bonus feats, which I plan on using on getting higher level Crusader maneuvers and/or stances. By itself it's a pretty okay class I think.

>>96948577
That's fair, though truth be told if I ever have a build that I'm trying to make, the autists either on the forums or Reddit have probably considered it already and figured out some way to be as good at that thing as possible, so there's no reason to feel like you have to shoulder that burden all to yourself.

>>96948658
Ahh sorry yes I was speaking of the Righteous Cohort. Well that makes sense, bonus feats slap. Everything else does mostly seem like icing

File: Satan Approves.jpg (9 KB, 224x225)

9 KB JPG

>>96948666

>>96948040
You really shot that troll's plan in the dick. This thread'a almost funny now.

I've actually read through the linked threads to try and figure out who is trolling who.... and what the fuck kind of unnecessary autistic 5d chess bullshit am I looking at?

I'm watching 2 anons sperging out replying to themselves to drum up fake evidence to link across multiple threads in an argument I can't even begin to diagnose the origin of. I can't even tell if the merging of threads was even originally part of this bullshit or was something the two titanic autists latched onto as the new battleground for their endless mutual trolling of each other.

File: Schizo.jpg (769 KB, 2160x2184)

769 KB JPG

>>96948752
You people really have too much time on your hands to sit here and invent these elaborate fanfictions about warring tribes of autists or whatever.

>>96948778
They ain't "Tribes". It's just two spergs that hate each other and have no lives as far as I can tell.

just ignore and reports the trolls who brought all this off topic middleschool drama here

File: PRC considerations.jpg (246 KB, 746x805)

246 KB JPG

>>96948685
Yep.
There's some okay passive stuff in there, and my character auto qualified thanks to Diehard from Ordained Champion, and the combination of full casting with 2 bonus fighter feats to progress his martial maneuver usage over the 6 levels is just what the doctor ordered.
It works really well too since he'll get the higher level maneuver (via Martial Study) at 20, the same level he'll get access to 9th level spells, a very fitting dual capstone of sorts for a Divine Gish/Warpriest/Battle Cleric kind of character.
Originally, the plan was to not take a level in Crusader and go for 5 levels of Ordained Champion (free quicken war domain spells is juicy) with the rest of his levels in Radiant Servant of Pelor since it would all align excedingly well with the character's themes (hathred for undead, working for the church of the sun god while worshipping the goddes of the night and holy war, etc), but some stuff happened during thecampaign and the Crusader level felt right, and the The Righteous Cohort levels as a sort of extension of that.
Which I think is kind of sick, that the game has enough options that I could revise my original plan for the character without having to retroactively change anything,
Thank you for reading my blog I guess.

>>96948752
There is a troll that osrg has been dealing with for a couple of years, he has recently started having some type of breakdown, because he has decided that shitposting isn't enough, he has been attempting to create multiple hijack threads, while also simultaneously infecting other generals and trying to convince them that he has some boogeyman after him.
All of this happened when he was turned on by basically the entire community and has been going nonstop for the last month. We call him fishfag because he is obsessed over this one session report of a party selling some fish. He thinks it's an example of why the game is bad or something

>>96948778
Oh yes, just conveniently ignore all of the bullshit that happens in your general thread everyday, nothing to see here folks

>96948958
No one's falling for it. Just shut up already and leave us alone.

>>96948658
one thing I really hate about both 3.5 and PF1 is this defaulting to female PCs in all class descriptions.
All these years and it has never stopped being cringe as fuck to see that on every page.
every time I get this vision of 60 year old losers starved for female attention sitting around some WoTC meeting room patting each other on the back
>this is how we will finally get women to talk to us
while an ugly as fuck Karen looks on and nods approvingly.
Its a morbid reminder that the brain rot of modern DnD started here, in 3rd edition.

>>96949000
The default isn't female, it's to either alternate pronouns or make an example character and refer to their pronouns. The image in that post cycles between he and she.

>>96948658
>>96949000
and you can see its forced too because they keep slipping up
>in addition HE gains spell resistance ... to 15+ half HIS character level
everyone knows the default pronoun of the English language.

>>96949000
#e did it because whitewolf made it popular through the explosive success of Original World of Darkness 1e & 2e. A lot of TTRPGs that started in the early 2000's era ended up doing that because they thought that was how WoD go it's female fanbase, not understanding the part hot vampire BDSM clubs and hot werewolf breeding camps played in that female base.

>>96949018
I see no cycling. And if what you said was true, that's just extra retarded
>>96949025
didn't know. Bloodlines 2 and now this...
technically, the other way around but still. I used to like that franchise based solely on the two video games.

>>96949018
>make an example character and refer to their pronouns
So I didn't imagine that.
Good.

>>96948991
There's nothing to fall for because I am just reporting on the facts. He's a plague on multiple threads, and he has moved on to this oneon to this one

>>96949025
Unrelated blog post but my mother was friends in college with the guys who made white wolf, she talks about it occasionally. The simping was part of the design all along

>>96947928
Not trolled, you're getting hijacked by a multi-thread schizo. Search the archives for 2efag, fishfag, nlfag. He picks an enemy and the samefags the shit out of the thread. Eventually guys in /nsrg figured out that the obnoxious shithead in Dying Earth threads, ACKS threads, Night Land threads, /osrg and nsrg is all the same asshole. Now he's after you. Have fun dealing with relentless samefagging and thread splitting.

Hey lads, heard you got fishfagged.
Hope it goes better for you than it has over in /osrg/
Don't give him an inch.

File: file.png (95 KB, 1729x375)

95 KB PNG

great
that "fishfag" anon is back
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96434718/#q96583816
can't the mods just perma-range-ban him already?

>>96948507
>Variant paladins have always been a pretty retarded idea to a lot of people, but it's one the devs came up with before 3e was a thing.
To give specific examples, you can find the CE "Anti-Paladin" in Dragon #39 from July 1980, with Dragon #106 from February '86 having the other seven for. It is just too obvious a content target for the Alignment system and pantheon listings per >>96948519, though the latter has them be quite distinct from the "Paladin, but" treatment 3.X UA gave with their own special abilities, spell access, and Follower tables.

>>96948525
I suspect a lot of is that the initial 3e writers couldn't settle on a substitute for Kits in core but still felt a deep need to support the fiddly outlier functions of Ranger and Paladin in a way they couldn't justify making feats like most of the rest would, and then it just stuck the same way I've never seen anyone return Druid to a special case of Cleric.

>>96949444
And then they finally made Knowledge Devotions that is way better for a Rangeresque character than Favored enemy. Cause you know, you actually use your Knowledge skills to determine how to fuck up your enemy.

>>96949400
They've tried banning him in the past, but he would just ban-evade and start saying the mods were also his "fishfag."
And, in this post mod-doxxed 4chan with its looser moderation, he's more than happy to just flood threads with hundreds of self-tagged posts for several hours without apparently worrying about any moderator action.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96901707/#q96901811
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96896564/#q96897346
This guy is not a normal troll.

Any anons that play with a physical grid and miniatures, where are y'all getting your minis from these days? Its amazing to me that getting packs of models for dnd is so shit outside of random Etsy sellers

>>96949588
>Knowledge Devotions that is way better for a Rangeresque character than Favored enemy
Eh, true in general, but not for specific builds.
Weirdly enough, rangers make the absolute best witch-hunters thanks to a few ACFs.

>>96949659
Here's the post where an anon realized he was the same guy trolling multiple threads:

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96767555/#96795418

Now he's here. I wonder how many threads he'll be allowed to hijack and trash before mods actually do something?

>>96949870
You understand we're talking about you, right? That you need to fuck off with your "everyone who hates me being a troll is a single guy i call fishfag" fucktardery?

>>96949890
Don't talk to him anon. just let him samefag and self-reply until he gets bored.
The more attention you give him, the longer it'll take him to go away.

>>96949588
>>96949702
There are effects that key off of or are riders on Favored Enemy right?

>>96949890
>>96949906
Hi fishfag.

This is his MO, by the way: anything you accuse him of, he just reflects, with a samefag post immediately mirroring his first one to back himself up. He's been trolling /osrg for over three years at this point, /nsrg since it started, searches for any mention of ACKS and trolls that, any mention of Night Lands, and samefags and reflects through all of it.

Fishfag always falls back on the same language, though (boogeyman, ackshill, brosr, purity spiral), so he's pretty easy to spot:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96767555/#q96795555

>>96949932
Yes. One example is nemesis: essentially 60ft blindsite for favored enemies, only even better because it lets you sense them through walls like mindsight.
Combine with exotic favored enemy options like Favored Enemy(Arcane Casters) or Favored Enemy(Evil), and you'll basically be using it 24/7 for all your encounters.

>>96950011
Holy fuck. Yeah, okay.
Knowledge Devotion can't do that.
Not that you have to choose since they stack right?

>>96950022
>they stack right?
Yep. If you combine with solitary hunter(Ranger ACF that lets FE apply to both attack And damage) with knowledge devotion, you can get rediculous shit like +11 to attacks at level 5.

>>96948285
There is no purities spiral, you are the one who showed up here to make a new thread and just start stirring up the shit pot.
I dare you to post a pathfinder character sheet you disruptive fucking troll

>>96949400
That's you actually, and we would love it if you would disappear from the entire board instead of infecting every fucking thread with your stupid bullshit. There is no purity spiral, the only purity spiral is the one you show up to randomly screech about in threads you have nothing to do with.

You have no character sheet because you have no games

>>96950097
Anon, I posted the new thread, Not him. I'm the anon who was sharing megas of pathfinder content and I've been in the thread talking about alchemy, paladins, and right now ranger optimization.
The shit stirring anon(s?) are just spergs that latched onto this thread for some reason.

>>96950132
>I just shot from the hip and decided to merge two threads about entirely different games without any discussion, why is anyone annoyed or confused by that
Next week: Warmahordes 40k general; whate could possibly go wrong.

>>96950132
I (you)ed the troll/shit-stirrer didn't I? FML

>>96950132
NTA, but it's honestly been sound more like try-hard posting than anything genuine from you,

I've been building a dragonlance Master ubercrafter build for a while and I want to know, what are the uber-crafting mechanics in pathfinder like?

>>96948294
>Fishfag
Wew it's the faggot that was trying to shill his shitty game here a couple months ago

>>96949000
>defaulting to female PCs in all class descriptions
it doesn't. every class in the game has a character made to represent it, and the class description follow those characters.
in the PHB alone, you will find that, in order, the characters are
>Male barbarian
>Male bard
>Male cleric
>Female druid
>Male fighter
>Female monk
>Female paladin
>Male ranger
>Female rogue
>Male sorcerer
>Female wizard
with each and every pronoun in their descriptions matching those character's genders
the same is true for every other splatbook, and pathfinder as well

>>96950725
>Female druid
>Female monk
>Female paladin
>Female rogue
>Female wizard
Hot.

File: prestigeDcCerebrex.jpg (53 KB, 400x985)

53 KB JPG

>>96950753
For me? It's the Cerebrex

Pf1e question

Is there any good third party content to make an "alcohol" ooze? Like a booze ooze or templates?

>>96951640
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/craft-ooze-item-creation/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/ooze-amber/
Both first party

>>96952000
Yea, I have that feat and amber ooze was the first thing i found. I wanted to add something to the ooze to make it more "alcoholish" or something because its backstory is related to alcohol, but its abilities and purpose is more related to the wizard that originally created it. Some other extraordinary or supernatural abilities to attach to it like sicked for a round etc.


But I'm not experienced enough to homebrew a template and make it balanced. My DM is pretty generous with what he lets us do (he let me use templates for the craft ooze feat, but i've relegated myself to only using simple templates), I just don't want to take advantage of it.

>>96952069
amber oozes are already kinda ass, so it'd be hard to somehow turn them into real dangers
if you want a template, i can whip up something quick, but at the end of the day it's all between you and your GM

>>96952098
>so it'd be hard to somehow turn them into real dangers

Oh, I'm not really looking for anything to throw directly into combat. I have access to all kinds of other bullshit. Like, he gave the go ahead for the Tear of Nuruu'gal (for myself only so far, no one else is willing to bond with an ooze. I'm more looking for flavor or niche use, since I'm not super familiar with all of pathfinder and creature abilities. Gimmicks are fun.

I wanted to use the garden ooze as a base since it's cheap and simple

>if you want a template, i can whip up something quick
That would be appreciated. Something simple
>but at the end of the day it's all between you and your GM
Yep. The worst he can say is no.

>>96952128
>That would be appreciated. Something simple
aight
>Alcoholic creature (CR+0)
>All across the ages, people of all kind have turned to meads, spirits, and other fermented concoctions in search of reprise from the harshness of the world. Sometimes though, some of those creatures have found themselves exceeding the limit of what they could handle, either intentionally or not

>Speed: a medium or larger alcoholic creature moves 10ft slower than a creature of its base type; smaller creatures move 5ft slower instead
>Saves: alcoholic creatures gain a +1 bonus to their will saves, and a -2 to their reflex and fortitude saves
>Effluvium (Ex): Alcoholic creatures exhude a powerful stench of failure, long nights and broken dreams. Any creature that moves within 5ft of the creature must make a Fort save (DC: 10 plus half of the alcoholic creature's HD) each round or become sickened for as long as they stay within 5ft of it. Failing a second save in a row worsens this condition to nauseated instead. This is a poison effect
>You Definitely Had Too Much (Su): when an alcoholic creature is subject to fire or electricity damage, they and everything within 5ft of them is set on fire, taking 1 point of fire damage on the turn it happens and an additional 1d6 on every subsequent turn until it is put out

There, now it's applicable to literally everything. If you're smart you can do funneh stuff with amber oozes, but this works great for tavern brawls, big feasts or stuff like that

>>96952255
kek, this is perfect. Thanks man.

>>96948636
>alchemy
3.5 alchemy is pretty anemic without third party material.
I'd be more interested in how pathfinder alchemist interacts with thing like the bastion press alchemy system.

Opinions on Incarnum? I somehow haven't ever seen it on my games in any way all this time, I absolutely forgot about it

>>96948166
Oh, this is far from the first troll thread he's made. He's concocted like half a dozen fake /osrg/s as well.

>>96952740
The BroSR trollcow campaign has been going on for a while, threads have been posted since 2019. Its a dedicated campaign by 1-2 people seeking to push a contested definition that suits their own agenda. Best action to take is report and hide responses, DONT feed the trolls.

>>96953181
Fuck off fishfag.

>>96952551
Complicated with little payoff. There's a reason you haven't really heard of it or seen it. If you're looking for alternative magic systems psionics is the hood classic

>>96953468
It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. No one uses it, so nobody bothers to learn it, so if anyone ever wants to use it, the DM goes 'man, im not learning a whole new system just for this, make something else please', ad infinitum

>>96953481
Have you used it personally? How did it go?

>>96953488
I tried a Totemist once because the DM trusted me enough to let me use it without him having to read the whole book just for that. Was fun, would roll it again but I'd have to read the goddamn thing once more because I forgot about a lot of the mechanics, this was like more than 10 years ago

File: iu[1].png (435 KB, 563x720)

435 KB PNG

>>96952551
The concept is really dope and Totemist is probably the easiest of the bunch to make work..
The idea of having magic permanent magical effects that take the spot of magic items, and that you can spend some resources to make more powerful is just sick as hell.
And most of all the aesthetics of the whole thing.
It's slightly undercooked as a system, I think
Will be adding some Totemist levels to my character's dragon cohort come lvl 18 to pad out the EC.

How would you guys take a Behir and make it as close to a True Dragon as possible using only first or second party material?
Half-dragon template + some of those feats meant for dragons is probably one way, but how far can you take that?
Is there one such a feat that would give it wings, for example?

File: Player's Handbook 2024 - (...).jpg (227 KB, 1920x1080)

227 KB JPG

>>96953816
And I meant to post an image, fuck me.

>>96953820
this pic is giving me whiplash.
on the one hand the quality of the art is pretty good
on the other hand..
>floating magic circles from anime
>a dragon wearing a cloak
>a beholder wielding a staff
>both monsters wearing rapper jewellery
>beholders grow facial hair
all of this feels wrong.
monsters shouldn't be wearing bling. they should be weird and completely inhuman

File: Screenshot_20251110_09161(...).jpg (56 KB, 1080x237)

56 KB JPG

>>96953816
There's a template for granting wings at +2LA from races of the wild or savage species? I don't remember precisely. Grafted wings are always an option if you're going for more of a "cruel mockery" kind of dragon. There is also a draconic template.

A couple google searches revealed this feat, you could grab this and then take the races of the dragon draconic feats. Behirs are 12 charisma so they qualify at base.

>>96954157
Dragons are well known for using magic items in most D&D settings, no?
Hell, isn't there a Faerunian Blue Dragon that's known to attach a bunch of rods and wants to its wings that it fires with all at once with a spell of its own creation?
Also, that's a Behir.
The Beholder is indeed comical.

>>96953181
And what are they supposed to be doing here? You are the one who came in making a merged thread for no fucking reason?

>>96954157
>floating magic circles from anime
Marvel movies*

File: hatto-artworks-behirhd-23(...).jpg (692 KB, 1920x2716)

692 KB JPG

I did take a look at the draconic (creature) template.
That's not quite what I was looking for, but
>Dragontouched
> a template for granting wings at +2LA from races of the wild or savage species
>races of the dragon draconic feats
These are exactly what I needed.
Thanks.
Grafts are also a great idea, but I want to see if I can make a frankestein mostrosity that could have been bred that way if possible.

File: spells-are-cast-in-the-_e(...).jpg (31 KB, 710x400)

31 KB JPG

>>96953820
>>96954216
Cmon now guys

>>96954251
I get what anon is saying. That's a little different, more like a floating rune than an intricate magic circle.
I don't think it's anything bad. Personally I don't mind it. But I get where he is coming from.
Also, fuck >>96954229 was meant for >>96954180

>>96954251
Unrelated but good lord trying to find actual old art from books n shit is fucking impossible nowadays, I tried googling 'd&d wizard magical rune circle' and all I got was AIslop

>>96954282
>and all I got was AIslop
Yup. That's search engine nowadays.
The best thing you can do is find the old blogs from the artists, the artstation pages for the ones that are still around, etc.
And if older than that, I think you can add some search terms to your search query to limit results to a certain date.
Like only getting search results from before 2019.

>>96954282
The fact that the authors fought so hard to keep any and all of the stuff off the internet is exactly why there's only AIslop left for you to find.

>>96954310
No I'm pretty sure the fact that everything is flooded with AIslop is the reason why everything is flooded with AIslop

>>96954317
The AIslop was going to be there, sure, but if finding what you were trying to look for as a visual reference was only a google search away people wouldn't have to make the slop images. I can't count the number of creatures I've had to gen up images for because the official designs you'd find in the books aren't available.

>>96954180
>>96954229
Wasn't there a rule somewhere for creatures with the Dragon type auto qualifying for certain things regardless of requirements?
Am I imagining that?

File: Winged Creature.png (103 KB, 396x616)

103 KB PNG

>>96954229
I got down to my PC to double check, Winged Creatue is Savage Species, and can not be applied to magical beasts. That being said, if you just go for the Half Dragon template that does grant wings to any creature "large or larger". So that would probably be the most direct way to accomplish what you're looking for, but does incur a +3 LA if that matters. Without LA you're getting Wings and a flight speed with 3 feats- Dragontouuched (Dragon Magic), Dragon Wings & Improved Dragon Wings (Races of the Dragon). At that point going for Draconic Creature at +1LA is honestly a pretty sweet deal. All of the Behirs claws become 1d6 damage instead of 1d4, and +1 natural armor + 6 attribute points. Not bad at all. Behir already has a breath weapon, so besides a Wings and a Flight speed, better scales, bigger claws, is there anything else you'd be looking for to make it more "dragon-y"? The only thing I could think of would be finding some kind of template to increase intelligence by a few points. "Spellwarped" from MM3 adds a thick bucket of stats including 4 Int. "creature modified over generations to absord magic".

>>96954441
>if you just go for the Half Dragon template that does grant wings to any creature "large or larger"
Fuck. I quite literally have the template page open right now and I somehow missed that god damn it.
Going the feats path sounds pretty good too.
Guess I'll be giving this thing some flaws since wings need to be taken at first level RAW.
Yeah, that'll do. Time to stat a couple of versions of this thing up, maybe give it some sorcerer levels too while at it.
Thank you again anon.

just checked out the osrg that looks pretty interesting, and I guess, i'll be making the swap now. thanks guys for the many years of posting together, but i'm afraid these games just don't do it for me anymore. i'll be sure to try out the osrg thread, it looks like a great new way to approach the old game.

>>96954473
My pleasure anon, I hope I've in some way contributed to a dope couple of sessions for you.

whats the best 2e moddule?

>>96954407
No you're correct, but it also required dragon age categories.
Dragons of Old age or older could take epic feats as feats without needing to qualify.
The issue is that nothing except pure dragons and kobolds have dragon age categories.

>>96954750
>but it also required dragon age categories.
I see.
I assume that's from the Draconomicon?
I'll go check once I'm done with work.

>Dragons of Old age or older could take epic feats as feats without needing to qualify.
Holy shit.
Fucking dragons man.

>>96954833
>the Draconomicon
Sigh... memories of the good ol' days...

File: 12515124214141.png (1.89 MB, 1500x750)

1.89 MB PNG

>>96947623
Would you run this as as an encounter area for a game in 3.5e? Its left to be customized, idea is its a light house type of map (perhaps a wizard's isolated keep if light house is too generic),10' square grid. Did it all in GIMP just as a mental exercise/time killer.

>>96954867
Good old days? I bought mine just last year.
It's a beautiful book.

>>96954884
You made that in GIMP?
Damn, that's pretty good.
Seems cramped enough to give casters and ranged characters quite a bit of trouble depending on what's inside that place

>>96954884
Sure but its sort of small. You'd have to think of a pretty interesting encounter for it to be worth doing.

>>96955089
just some noise gen techniques, blurs and feathered edge selects for what I used to create that shit with some layer style shittery. GIMP can create "fake high detail" shit if one puts their mind to it pretty fast.

>>96955110
You could add dungeon layers below the main floor for players to investigate as a full dungeon crawl.

>>96953778
>It's slightly undercooked as a system, I think
It's a lot of undercooked. Same as say Warlock.
Incarnum needed either a proper spread of Soulmelds - at least 7-9 per energy type/Plane similar to cleric domains. Or a "build your own soulmelds" system where by choosing certain effects you lose ability to get others.

Is there an easy way to take bonus attacks per round with a natural weapon(s)?

>>96955258
>Or a "build your own soulmelds" system where by choosing certain effects you lose ability to get others.
That would be pretty awesome.

>>96955261
A level of Monk lets you do iteratives with your unarmed attacks (or primary natural weapon?) before attacking with your secondary weapons.
Something like that?
Or more like the Rapid Strike feat?

>>96955261
Draconomicon - Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike.

>>96955310
>>96955294
Interesting, thank you. All the talk above about draconic monsters got me thinking about a couple monster builds to try out. And Ogre with the draconic tail is nifty, would let you take a reach weapon that normally leaves you defenseless if the hero(s) close on you because you can slam/trip attack anybody within 5/10 feet. I'm at work tho so I can't search through my library to find other supporting feats

>>96955258
>Incarnum needed either a proper spread of Soulmelds - at least 7-9 per energy type/Plane similar to cleric domains.
Horrible page-space sink given how they divvy up and would be significantly more awkward to parse the Incarnate/Soulborn line for than just using Alignment descriptors. And the increase in overt cosmology sensitivity dictates page space dedication to Eberron adaptation.

>Or a "build your own soulmelds" system
Systematizing it is very likely to just repeat magic item crafting guidelines with all the same arguments over how binding they are. Breadth is probably better attained through list-looting "catchalls" like Channeling/Possession inlet and clear but non-formulaic advice (like the Vestige or Mantle design articles) for converting appropriate content elsewhere to Soulmeld space.

>>96955546
How much the tail will be worth?
Because Improved Unarmed Strike + Superior Unarmed Strike cover most of your close combat needs.
Also don't forget that using improvised weapons is just -4 to attack. I literally had a barb using long spear in one hand with a shield, because eating -4 attack penalty was better than losing 3 points to AC with 12 archers around.

>>96953778
Pathfinder had their own version of soulmelds known as akashic veils, it gave the system a mich needed power boost(and added an optional cooking sysem.... for some reason...)

>>96955826
>and added an optional cooking sysem.... for some reason...
Sometimes pathfinder devs just do shit anon. Their reasons aren't always going to be comprehensible to those of less advanced autism.

>>96955894
>How do we resell the garbage from 3.5e retrofitted to our stats in a way that will pump up our page counts to 300-500 to justify the dead trees our products sell as.
Its about as deep of a cutting thought process as that. (Pun intended.) They have the Electronic Arts/Paradox Interactive mentality.

>>96955933
Anon, the cooking system thing was given it's own books.
Two books in fact. The Soulmeld system is already complex enough to pad page counts on it's own.

>>96956019
Sounds like someone was starving for ideas there.

>>96956031
>fills two books with it
>starving for ideas

I don't think you know what that term means, anon

>>96950346
>what are the uber-crafting mechanics in pathfinder like
Really fucking good, honestly.
I made a crafter dwarf follower that got 60% discounts on prices depending on the item, and a huge bonus on how much in price you could craft per day for both magic and mundane items.

>>96954157
>they should be weird and completely inhuman
Why?

>>96954345
>because the official designs you'd find in the books aren't available.
This.
A lot of art from older game books is basically lost for this reason.

>>96956105
What about for actual bonuses? 3.5 had a weirdless large amount of 1st and 3rd party content that expanded on the quality of masterworks you could make.
With just 1st party material alone, an ubercrafter can make a +5(attack & damage) sword that inflicts 5 bleed for 1d4 rounds on a crit, has an additional +5 luck bonus to attack/damage, inflicts a -5 penalty to saves vs magic on targets, gains a +20 to rolls vs disarm, a +20 vs rust/acid/disintigration, +10 to all items saves(stacks with previous), add +10 to it's hardness, apply poisons and/or alchemical concoctions as a swift action, etc. all without considering special materials, item templates, or magical enhancements.
Adding 3rd party material, The same sword above is now +20 attack/damage as it's base and adds a +15 damage vs Evil, +15 Damage vs undead, +15 fire damage(all multiplied by crits btw), has it's crit threshold increased +1, has it's crit multiplier increased +1, automatically dispells magic on anything it hits, gives a +15 racial bonus to ALL skill checks in the hands of good creatures, can be enhanced at 1/24th the usual xp cost, and can have the effects of 4 special materials simultaneously, not counting alloys like oerthblood.

>>96956323
>weirdless large
*weirdly large
I didn't even know weirdless was an actual word before now. Thank you autocorrect.

>>96956139
Because they they both Are inhuman anon. The cloth's they're wearing and the items they're wielding don't make sense for their anatomy, much less that powers each monster is known to wield.
When a non-humanoid monster is using tools, it should use tools that support it's anatomy and biology. Technology and Tools developed by and for birds isn't going to resemble anything made for humans for example.

File: 21521515151.png (883 KB, 961x680)

883 KB PNG

>>96954251
Magic Circles in anime are just pure cinema though (and usually have roots in solomonic magic), Witcher pales in comparison.

File: cardcaptor_sakura__magic_(...).jpg (286 KB, 1600x1126)

286 KB JPG

>>96956746
I give you,
The GOAT.

File: 21521521515151.png (672 KB, 677x382)

672 KB PNG

>>96956746
More fictional but they understand the origin of magic circles in the western occult even if you didn't get that's where they are from. They are usually more elaborate and very unique to series if they are not copying Solomonic circles. If anything D&D Spell Casting is unironically Ninjutsu tier shit. (Physical gestures, spells taking long to charge up and then cast with a verbal component and boom! You got your magic spell, or Ninja Technique in Naruto.)

>>96956776
>If anything D&D Spell Casting is unironically Ninjutsu tier shit.
Good to know it's not just my group that jokes about that.
We are a bunch of weebs in their 30s.

>>96956785
Easy way to hack up a Ninja from Naruto to 3.5: Take Assassin/Rogue, add access to all spells (just rename them to equivalent Ninja Technique, Genin level Ninja starts with 7 spell levels they can place into max level 3 spell, 0 level spells cost 1 extra, they got as many Chakra Points as final amount of starting spell levels on their sheet that recover through meditation/charging (wasting a turn with a concentration skill check)/rest.)
Completely broken but that's how it would be.

>>96956831
Spell points "wizards" are jokingly considered Tier 0 for a reason.

>>96956861
>Grease.
>Sleep.
>Fireball.
heh.

>>96956776
>If anything D&D Spell Casting is unironically Ninjutsu
Unfortunately, that's actually historically accurate to european magic traditions. IRL wizards were in fact priests and spells come from prayers to specific pagans gods.
The runic circle was actually a very late addition taken from alchemy mixing nordic runic traditions with hebrew word magic traditions.

TL;DR: an IRL accurate "wizard" would actually be a class that mixes druids, wizards, and clerics together.

>>96957223
it would just be a Bard.

>>96956776
>If anything D&D Spell Casting is unironically Ninjutsu tier shit.
It started as a sort-of "delayed trigger" system in the poorly-explained back end leaving the ritual at home, or to the god who's power you draw on, but those mechanics dissolved in 3.X under the weight of quality of life attempts (naturally breaking balancing restrictions in the process) and weirdass casting mechanic alternatives.

>>96956831
And if Naruto d20 does not satisfy you (of course it exists, and of course it's a deranged mess haphazardly caked on top of d20 Modern), you could start with a Monk/Ninja theurge with the Stunning Fist and Ki Power uses merged, then get to juicing the Jutsu feats from Dragon #342 to the desired power-scaling.

>>96957223
>Unfortunately, that's actually historically accurate to european magic traditions.
...The point is the very clear demonstration that is not the case because the ritual trappings not much engaged with by 3.X pseudo-Vancian are rather central. The "runic" circle is quite far from the only such ritual trapping of esotericism in question, after all.

>IRL wizards were in fact priests and spells come from prayers to specific pagans gods.
Entities usually derived from pagan gods, but the theological framework and consequently context of appeal for intervention by those from which the "Wizard" archetype we have derives is quite different from the originating pagan practices.

>TL;DR: an IRL accurate "wizard" would actually be a class that mixes druids, wizards, and clerics together.
Or just a Sha'ir with the list-rummaging reoriented around choice of "spirits" beseeched.

>>96957404
Cleric is literally just a vampire busting necromancer, excuse me, ceremonial mage. Can't say that evil term in a Christian Tabletop RPG.

>>96957404
>It started as a sort-of "delayed trigger" system
Sometimes, other times 1e and 2e tried to explain it as originating from contracts with spirits like in the vance books, which makes less sense the more you think about it(like many mechanics in D&D)

>>96956746
>>96956776
If anything, it makes magic look extra stupid.
>DnD
>mage chants for a few seconds, waves his hands just right and farts out a fireball from his finger,
>anime
>>mage chants for a few seconds, waves his hands just right and farts out a complicated 2d diagram oriented in 3d space... which than farts out the fireball
so everyone is just picking the exact same spell manifestation

>>96957583
No no no, the magic circles in anime make sense if you think of them as this way:
>Mage is cracking open the fundamentals of reality that allows them through the correct formula to "pick the universal locks" which are held together by the magic circle "pins" which allow them to break through "reality barrier" and cast the intended spell.
If that makes more sense now with what most anime magic goes for?

>>96957607
>Over-complicated gibberish
Anon, why not just go for a simple system, like setting up a complex ritual in advance and suspending it to activate when the mage does a specific set of actions?

>>96958079
Same reason you can't water a garden by poking a hole in a dam. Magic on the brink of release is a ticking time-bomb. The longer you leave it primed, the less likely it does what you want when you want it.

>>96958214
Anon, I was not asking for you to ad-lib a reason for why your world needs to operate in the very dumb way your described. I was asking why you didn't build the world in a simpler way that didn't leave a bunch of holes you'll need to constantly patch over with new every time someone asks a question.

>>96958308
>constantly patch over with new every time someone asks a question
* with new lore every time someone asks a question.

>>96958308
Why not write your own ttrpg, sell several million copies, dominate the cultural space for 40 years, and start a 4chan thread about that gay world and its magic rules?

>>96958079
Why not just throw a molotov cocktail, you freakshit, blue-haired magifag.

>>96958320
own your mistakes, queer.

>>96958365
>>96958423
Anon is pissed someone is making fun of his favorite world of darkness clone.

Is there a RAW legal way to give a numeric LA to a creature that has LA -?

>>96959232
I don't understand what you're asking at all. Do you mean adding additional racial hit dice?

>>96959252
No.
Some creatures have LA- in their statblocks, while some have LA 0, 1, 2, etc, correct?
Is there a raw legal way to make a base creature that would normally be LA - into a creature with LA [number]?
I'm asking simply out of curiosity, mind you, but I don't even know if that would be useful for anything at all but the question did come to mind while I was faffing about with some creature statblocks.

>>96959292
LA 0 and LA - are the same thing. The only way to "add LA" to a creature is through templates.

>>96959308
>LA 0 and LA -
I can think of at least one difference, defining if a creature is playable or not by RAW (I think??).
>The only way to "add LA" to a creature is through templates.
So by RAW, adding a template to a LA - creature would make it a LA 0+[template LA] creature right?
By that logic, I guess that's one way to make any monster playable then, slap a LA 0 template on it and off to the races you go.
Interesting.
Useful? No. That's the kind of thing that needs to be hashed out between player and DM, but still, interesting.

>>96959232
Why would you want to? Anyone who thinks LA- matters only needs to remember that you can still polymorph into LA- monsters.

>>96959372
None of what you are saying is real or true. You are just misunderstanding what LA is/means. You could play a regular donkey or a crawling head, there are no rules about what you are allowed to play as. Maybe take it from the top and explain slowly and thoroughly what it is you are trying to accomplish

>>96959389
See >>96959292
I'm asking simply out of curiosity.

>>96959372
>defining if a creature is playable or not
Oh, and that might also apply to the possibility of having said creature as a cohort too, which would be more relevant if that's true at all.

>>96959406
>None of what you are saying is real or true
> there are no rules about what you are allowed to play as
Really?
Shit. I've had it in my head for the longest time that there was a rule somewhere about creatures with LA: 0 and creatures with LA: — being different, in that the former can be playable.
Maybe that was specifically for templates?
Guess I'll have to go after where the hell I got that rule from.
Well, if that is true, then from what was posted before, a template with a LA should make a LA: — creature cohort or pc legal, if there is such a rule.
Time to go read the PHB, DMG, and maybe the Rules Compendium to see if I can find anything about that.

>explain slowly and thoroughly what it is you are trying to accomplish
Nothing. It was just a question that crossed my mind while I was doing other statblock related things.

>>96959406
>>96959435
>https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm
>Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Humanoids and Class Levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL...

I remember seeing a rule or perhaps a ruling somewhere that secondary effects like poison or ability damage only come into play if the attack inflicted damage.
meaning that if a creature's DR blocked all HP damage, the poison rider on that damage doesn't happen.
Is that a thing or am I confusing it with some 3pp stuff.

If that is a thing, would temporary hitpoints such as those from False Life block the rider effects too because the attack didn't reach the real hit points?

>>96959435
I consulted the oracle (chatgpt) and it says that in the monster manual and in savage species it says that any creature with an LA:– is "unsuited" for a player character, and in the 2007 rules compendium it elaborated that LA:– is "not available as a player character race". I don't have my books infront of my atm so I cant verify this, but if chatgpt is to be trusted here then you are correct (and, unfortunately, I was wrong)

>>96959463
>I remember seeing a rule or perhaps a ruling somewhere that secondary effects like poison or ability damage only come into play if the attack inflicted damage.

It's under Damage Reduction rather than Poison for some reason.
>If that is a thing, would temporary hitpoints such as those from False Life block the rider effects too because the attack didn't reach the real hit points?
Unfortunately, not by RAW. Temp hp damage is still damage.

>>96959501
thank you. as usual am looking for things in all the wrong places.

>>96959435
>>96959450
>>96959474
>(and, unfortunately, I was wrong)
Page 172 of the DMG (or at least the version I have) almost says what the SRD says.
Almost but not quite. So that might be why you didn't think that was the case.
The Monster Manual, on the other hand, has that exact text, on page 7, and it points us to the relevant pages in the DMG too, which is pretty neat.
>Level Adjustment
>This line is included in the entries of creatures suitable for use as player characters or as cohorts (usually creatures with Intelligence scores of at least 3 and possessing opposable thumbs). Add this number to the creature’s total Hit Dice, including class levels, to get the creature’s effective character level (ECL). A character’s ECL affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level, and the character’s starting equipment. See pages 172, 199, and 209 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more information
I couldn't for the life of me find anything about LA in the Rules Compendium.

>the oracle
I work in IT, use AI to "vibe code" toy projects, and I still sometimes forget that we can use these damn things to find information.
Anyways, as I said before, I asked simply out of curiosity, but the mention of cohorts in the rule actually makes it relevant to my group, since we have people with the Leadership feat.
Now to see if I can find an answer to my original question about turning LA: em dash into LA: number.

>>96959559
Even if you were to change its LA it will still be a modified variant of a creature that is not character playable

>>96959582
Given the reasoning in the monster manual on why LA: - means "unsuitable for use as PC/cohort", yeah. It's pretty clear that you are right as far as designer intent goes.
I'm still going to look further into it for my own curiosity's sake.
I'm leaning towards LA: - means no LA, and as such you can't add an LA to a creature that doesn't have LA to begin with, as far as the RAW argument goes.

>>96959559
Interesting thing I never knew before, but Savage Species has a massive master list of creatures considered "suitable" (there's that word again) for use as a character. Obviously this only includes monsters released up until the printing of Savage Species, but they are still neat.

I can't seem to find anything that uses a word besides "unsuitable" for playing as crazy monsters, so this seems to be more of a guideline of scope than a hard rule. I'd be really happy for anybody to be able to show me otherwise.

>>96953778
It doesn't really take the place of a magic item until you get to the binds, and there's a feat for that, an item for that, and just not using the bind effect. While they're a definite step up for each meld, they're also generally not necessary except for a few on both ends of the Incarnum power spectrum.

File: Bariaur.png (686 KB, 1160x1022)

686 KB PNG

Bariaur seem very good if you're using LA buyoff. They aren't listed in the SRD tho under their list of playable races. I wonder if I have a more comprehensive list somewhere in my trove that I've just never looked for before

Just to be sure, alternate form/change shape used by Monsters to disguise as Humanoids lets them mimic clothes right?
Like would you say a Succubus for example could decide how she's dressed on the fly, or would she actually have to secure different equipment?

>>96959903
you have to account for the 3 racial hit dice, making the ECL +4.

File: Bariaur Dragon Magazine.png (1.94 MB, 1414x1011)

1.94 MB PNG

>>96960022
You're thinking of the Exalted Deeds variant (planar handbook refers specifically to that variant as Exalted Bariaur). They have 3 racial hit dice and an LA+2. There is also a third variant in Dragon Magaize if that isnt confusing enough already.

>>96960045
I think that the Dragon magazine version there, other than the occasional cuts and changes that happen all the time like with the Synads, is either the Savage Species alternate progression for playing a HD/LA having race from 'normal' level 1 or the version that it was an alternate for.

>>96960017
Nope, neither of those abilities allow you to change clothing. If Pathfinder equipment is available, Sleeves of Many Garments fix this pretty easily though.

>>96954282
i'm you're looking at Pinterest, you can opt out of ai slop in your options. it filters out like, 85% of AI.

File: Rune Circle (Races of Stone).jpg (265 KB, 733x513)

265 KB JPG

>>96954282
you're looking for this?

>>96960754
Crossposting this here on the off chance that any of you might be interested, I usually only post in the dedicated Paizo thread but I figure while this one is alive I might as well let some of the rest of you know about my work.

>>96956323
How in the Fuck are you making non-magical +20 swords???

>>96960931
Master Crafter from Dragonlance is kinda bullshit.

>>96960931
Hey I'm sure with current technology we could make something that would pass for a +12 sword at the very least

>>96956831
Reminder that Naruto was pitched as a manga about wizard but the editors pushed for it to be about ninjas instead because it'd do better domestically. They changed the aesthetic and names, but not the story
>>96958214
>Magic on the brink of release is a ticking time-bomb
Which is addressed in the Dying Earth novels themselves, and it's why wizards are (in-universe) almost always old as shit: it takes time to learn how not to blow up
>>96958423
I suggest you take a look at the (often handwaved away) material components for a lot of arcane spells

>>96960764
>All 6 of her limbs
>Picture clearly shows ten limbs, with eight moving towards the viewer
methinks someone got too focused on one pair of "limbs"

>>96961057
Thinking about this, i'm pretty sure that anything coming out of a factory or machine shop counts as a masterwork tool