Part the Veils Edition>Bans (new)https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/banned-and-restricted-november-10-2025>NewsThe 2025 Magic Con and Pro Tour Schedule:https://www.magic.gg/news/the-2025-magiccon-and-pro-tour-schedule>Metagame Mentor: The Winners and Losers from Standard's 2025 Rotationhttps://www.magic.gg/news/metagame-mentor-the-winners-and-losers-from-standards-2025-rotation>Spoilershttp://www.magicspoiler.com/https://mythicspoiler.com/CONSTRUCTED RESOURCES>Current meta, complete with deck listshttps://www.mtgtop8.com/https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/>Build and share casual deckshttps://deckstats.net/https://tappedout.net/CUBE RESOURCES>Build and share Cubeshttps://cubecobra.com/landingCARD RESOURCES>Search engineshttps://scryfall.com/https://mtg.wtf/>Proxy a deck or a cube for cheaphttps://www.makeplayingcards.com/https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM>Play online for freehttps://untap.in/https://dr4ft.info/>What is EDH?https://vocaroo.com/1ihc21gJLBh1>The Slop is for the Pigs. Pigs eat Slop.https://x.com/RealPokemoki/status/1972817965847617963>WotC's War Crimeshttps://pastebin.com/JRYDiAjq (OLD)https://pastebin.com/nEcKGAys (NEW)>Previously>>96981118 >TQWho is your fave planeswalker?
>>96990574>TQthe dead onesnot Domri, though
Saw these 2015 decks at walmart.
which avaturd prerelease kit is the strongest?
>>96990906Katara is probably the most threatening "guaranteed" card, but beyond getting a rare of a specific mono color they don't really account for much
PURIST STATUS ???
Going to my first prerelease tomorrow.What am I in for?I'm a scrub who just plays casually with friends, and I'm poor at building my own decks.>>96990678Good taste.
>UB bad>but not THIS UB
>>96991081Yes.There will always be at least SOMEONE who likes a particular UB set, even if UB as a whole is bad.
>>96991020>Going to my first prerelease tomorrow.>What am I in for?Waste of time.>I'm a scrub who just plays casually with friends, and I'm poor at building my own decks.Waste of time and money, then.
I've been testing a set cube for Final Fantasy. The buster sword seems a bit too good. I'm considering cutting it from the cube. Otherwise it's 4-2-1-1. What do people think, should I skip the sword it sure would save my wallet a bit?
>>96982927>Give their cross-promotion track record, I would be surprised if they DON'T have MTG content in MHWilds. What would it even be though? Chandra palico armor? What does Magic still have that's iconic?The funniest possible thing would be you have to fight some medley of monsters being ridden by Kinnan.>hello, our half of the crossover is an ugly steven universe looking brown kid>please look forward to him
>>96991109>Waste of time and money, thenI'm literally going with my friends.
Waiting for mtg forge to finish implementing their avatar set. Why is playing against bots so much fun?
>>96991158Anon, if you had any friends you wouldn't be on 4chan.
>>96991202My friends post here too
>>96990678Bolas can come back whenever he wants, why not my boy Venser?
>>96991081New York block bad
>>96991536Here's his corpse.
>>96990541I don't like Yorion. It feels that deck is spread out thin with it. Pact is also an option, but I prefer a tighter focus on Doom. It's why I play Starfield, for more enchantment attrition style.
>>96991578Again, the cool walkers can cheat death through contrived bullshit, so why not Venser?
Got prerelease in a few hours, which kit should I pick if I've got the option?
>>96991606Because Elspeth died in Theros a plane with an actual afterlife.
>>96991606Because he got desparked.
Are there any resources I should look at to get the lay of the land as a prospective new player? I looked over the OP links but didn’t see anything that seemed like an obvious starting point. I’m considering getting into magic semi-properly, but not settled on formats etc and not sure what’s a sensible use of money and what’s a trap. I’d lean towards pioneer - the balance between not having to bin my cards if I don’t use them for a couple years and not having to deal with cards going back decades seems like the nicest option for approaching it casually. And I’m interested in the new avatar set, I like TLA and so do a few friends who I might be able to lure in to play with me, so I’m drawn to getting a bundle or some packs from that. But on the other hand if I do go pioneer I imagine the sensible option would be to ignore whatever happens to have just released and focus on building up a collection of all the most cost-effective staples in the format, maybe even just order the specific cards for a budget deck and forget entirely about buying anything directly from WotC. And I’m still not entirely sure I want to pull the trigger on getting into what is really quite an expensive hobby - if I want to be able to participate in casual local tournaments without just being a free win for whoever I go up against, what’s the cost floor likely to be?
>>96991536>why not my boy Venser?
>>96991638Download and play Arena. Pioneer is a living dead format. Focus on Standard, then you can use your Standard cards to play Pioneer.
Don't sleep on the fact that monored now has a one-mana redirect for hosing spot removal.This is not okay. Mark my words, you'll all see I'm right.
>>96991136Baby bitch move, its the fucking BUSTER SWORD, full set or bust
>season 1 characters have one color>season 2 version adds a second color>season 3 version adds a third colorCall me easily impressed but this is my favorite gimmick that I've ever seen.
>>96991649I’m not interested in spending money on digital cards - I’ve played hearthstone since beta and stopped spending money on it years ago out of disgust for how greedy it was getting, and arena is more jewish by far. I’d consider physical cards because I can hold them, lend and borrow them to and from friends, and sell them if I decide I no longer want them, but I have no interest in sinking money into arena. Is pioneer really that dead? I went to a local FNM yesterday and the guys who let me borrow a deck and in were playing commander and then pioneer, and from what I could gather the tournament that would have happened if people hadn’t been occupied with pre-release stuff instead would have been pioneer. Was it just rare chance that I found people playing it? Or did you just mean “dead” as in non-rotating?
>>96991701The assumption was that you don't know shitfuck about Magic, so Arena is there to teach you how to play.
>>96991701nta but Pioneer isn't getting any major tournament support in the next year, this means local stores have less incentives to foster a Pioneer environment in the long runif your local scene already has an established Pioneer scene, then go for it, but you should be aware that could change down the line, say 5 or 6 months from nowwe just don't want you to invest money into a format and then have nobody to play with
>>96991682>card has the name of the seriesI clapped
>>96991708I wouldn’t quite say I know shitfuck about it, I dabbled a little during uni years ago, I’ve played a bit of arena, and I’m aware of all the core mechanics and rules - and a decent bit of what I know from hearthstone is transferable. But yeah, if I do get into magic properly I’ll get some practice in arena, I’m just not interested in spending any money there. Maybe I misunderstood you - were you saying play arena f2p for practice, and when investing in physical cards focus on what’s in standard and it can double as an okayish pioneer deck?
>>96991647Fun fact, Venser was Maro favorite walker
>>96990574...and he's never coming back.
>>96990574>TQmy nigga, Koth
>>96991736Careful now.
>>96990574>Shitty Art: >:(>Shitty Art Nippon Eddition: :D
>>96991682Oh hey looks like Hasbro marketing is trying (failing lmao) to drum up hype for this load of fucking garbage.
>>96990574There can be only one.
>>96991802
>brings cat oven back to standardYou're welcome.
>>96991831i'm too stupid to understand so i need you to break down the loop for me
>>96991847Umbral Collar Zealot for a sac outlet and Bloodghast gets infinite sac and landfall triggers. Multiple payoffs like Vinelasher, Bloodwitch, Sepheroth, and cat oven staple Scavenger's Talent make it about as easy to present a loop as with Ygra in pioneer.
>>96991861That is waaaay more setup involved than cat oven and more vulnerable since all pieces are creatures.
>>96991890As someone who's been playing it for several years I think it's more consistent than pre-WOE cat oven. It has built in recursion, can be done in response to removal, and all the pieces you want work well together without the combo. It'll also likely be the only deck maindecking Soul Cauldron for redundancy with Zealot.
>>96991890It's very, very consistent tbqh. There's so many different wincons that all feed off that engine.
>>96991682Toph didn't appear in season one
>>96991087and those someones are evil
>>96991701>and arena is more jewish by far.Arena is f2p with a little patience. It is literally the only official way to play mtg that doesn't require any money whatsoever (unless you have friends willing to donate cards to you or some shit), so I'm not sure what you're on about.
>>96991136you have 1 copy of every other rare and mythic but the buster sword in particular is what you're worried about?how much FF draft have you actually played? because I'd be way more worried about cards like Ardyn and Dion
>>96991682(and aang has a 4c version for the ending)but yeah it's pretty neat.they kinda fucked it up with Sokka whose 1c version is instead wu hybrid
>>96991682Toph and Azula weren't S1 characters. Sokka doesn't have a mono color card, he got a hybrid card for some reason. There's no WG member. Zuko is a wedge, while the others are shards. This whole "cycle" annoys me.
How'd you guys do at your prerelease?
>>96991136It's like the most iconic thing about FF7, you can't cut it
>>96992117Azula appeared in Zuko's flashbacks in s1.
>>96992183Yeah for like five seconds in the background and unnamed.
I’m back, larper-kike, and you’re still not funny. Go back to sucking nosewater’s cock retard.
>>96992117>he got a hybrid card for some reason.to fill out the draft set lol, but still, yeah
premodern
>>96992239You're beyond mindbroken, Nosewater
>>96992444balding & malding formatavatar is life
thank god i live in a civilized part of the world with competing gamestores offering $40 prereleasescan't imagine having to pay $60 and needing to take home two packs just to break even
>going to a prerelease in 2025
>>96992550sorry they don't have an accessible LGS in Appalachia bubba
the only LGS I know about in my city got shut down for scamming people over One Piece lol
i wouldn't be surprised if the ones near me sold well-made fake singles but honestly who cares at this point, you can just binder trade for authentic copy and buying ungraded mythic rares is an L no matter how you do itdesu it was my first prerelease in like 8 years and it was more fun than expected, a lot less sweat than there used to be both literally and metaphorically
>>96992569Accessibility isn't the problem here in Nebraska
>>969921693-0;6-0. I rolled a dice to choose my box and got the busted one.
>>96992629Dude used his firebending mana to Crack a clue, so I flashed in the fish and drew 2 and blocked something, then he tried to cast a removal spell on it, and the judge watching our table stopped me from putting it in the graveyard amd reminded us there was a ward trigger, so it turned into like a 4 for nothing play...
>>96992532Stay mad kikesucker
>>96992072I’m already at over 100,000 gold on daily plays after 2 months for free drafts when Lorwyn drops by skipping all UB product. The only arena bitches that cry about wildcards are nonwhite players.
>>96992629God I wish my prereleases were only 3 rounds, last time I went to an evening prerelease it was 5 rounds and I had to tap out halfway through because it was getting late and we still had two rounds to go. That's why I only go to afternoon prereleases now.
>>96992569I actually have 2 LGSs in my tiny North Georgia town in the mountains
>>96992629I went 3-0 at my midnight prerelease but sadly no additional prizes
>>96991727Nobody plays paper standard. Are there any shops around you that actually fire type 2 events anymore?
>>96992905I don't know what people play, that's why I'm asking. The only people I've encountered so far were playing commander and pioneer but I don't know how representative they are of the local scene. What do people actually play in your experience?
>>96992905I think the vivi ban might help. Our store had been firing at about a 75% rate prior to the ban.
>>96992731Gaslight harder, jew lover
I can't believe modern is dead
Modern died with Horizons #1.
>>96992958there are four game stores around where I live that I have experience with and the mtg turnout is dominated by commander, although there are some drafts as well. Two of them do standard but it's a smaller turnout and the other two don't even bother with it at all.
>>96992983Remain ass-cratered kikesucker
>>96993063Your jewish trickery isn't working, Nosewater
>be brazilian>local WPN LGS hosts Legacy, Pauper, Modern, Commander and Standard every week, all of them with at least 10 to 15 players a nightWe are really the MTG Country, even with cards not being printed in portuguese anymore.
>>96993002Nah. It barely survived MH1.MH2 though...
Play legacy whiteman.
>>96993382Its dead, jim.Also last time I played I dropped more than one game to fucking dinosaurs on a spaceship or whatever the fuck that dr who card isMake legacy w/o ub and ill play again.
>>96993002Mh3 killed it for meKilled legacy too I understand the appeal of premodern but I have no reasonable way of playing it
>>96991181because they're fucking stupid and let you roll over them without so much as a minor inconvenience on the way there
entomb had a white folks, it's racist. it had to be banned! BISMILLAH OOK OOK GIB ME DAT
evens - play a modern league with ruby belcherodds - play a legacy league with oops
Is just me or this set is one of the biggest shits they ever printed?
how long has the situation been no stock at msrp for months leading up to launch? that's pretty crazy even if its intentional scarcity
>>96993628nah, aetherdrift and spiderman were horrible, avatar is just ok
>>96993628>one of the biggest shits they ever printedwe can/will get worse
>>96993628my first impression is neutral / somewhat positive
>>96990574>TQi have never liked planeswalkers as a card type but i like the art on this one
>>96993628its not even the worst theyve printed recently and its very middle of the road overall
>>96992992I can
>>96993266It's not just Brazil, most european countries I've been to and/or know people from mostly have healthy scenes in multiple formats (funnily enough bigger cities sometimes have the smallest scenes, I bet it's because it's much more expensive to have a store in those cities). The decline of non-EDH paper magic seems to be an uniquely american thing.
>>96993628It's an alright set, nowhere near as good as FF but it's so innofensive that I can't imagine how anyone could rank it in their worst sets ever list unless they were trying to be hyperbolic on purpose.
>>96991606Because Elspeth died in a plane where the dead get to come back to life and Bolas is the single strongest walker to have ever existed in canon Venser was both just some guy and died in New Phyrexia. I honestly don't even get what's so special about him other then him being the example in the Venser scale, it's not like he was especially loved when he was alive
>>96993511barely missed a 3-2, damnneeded to topdeck a mana source in a deck with like 30 of them and drew a belcher insteadlegacy is much better after the bans but tamiyo and ring being legal is super silly
>>96993628But dude but bro they printed 18 Azulas. That's my freakin' childhood bro. I love things I remember. Plus making custom cards is really hard, you have to think of what color the character would be and then uhhh think of some ability that draws cards and would be good in commander to slap onto it.
>tamiyo is legal in legacyhey, I got an idea! let's print a card that says you go +infinity in card advantage. what should it cost? how about U? that way it pitches to force when you aren't drawing infinity cards
>>96993628Is UB trash, we can all agree on that (the not UB shills at least) but taking into account Marvel Heroes, Star Trek and in my opinion THE WORST, TMNT are on the pipeline, then Avatar is pretty mid
>>96990961You can’t use that construction when “that” is referencing a singular specific countable object earlier in the sentence. You are truncating it down to make it seem more proper than it actually is. Again, using “that play was bad” in a construction where it is not the subject means that it could be the group agreeing that the concept of play itself is bad. This is the entire reason determinators like DAs exist.
>>96994193It’s more that Venser’s death was especially cruel and vindictive for a guy who hadn’t done much of anything wrong. It felt like someone on the writing team had it out for him. Not helped by Karn basically ignoring the phyrexia problem for several years.
>>96990771Ive seen some theme decks and a few two player starters but not these or those mystery boxes. I really want a mystery box this year but the local game store owner/scalper beats me every time they get stocked. Dude is a fucking whale so i wonder what the mark up is to play athis store.
>>96992958>>96992978>>96993046Different anon here, but theres one store around me that I know of that still has standard somewhat regularly. I wish there was more though. Commander is fun, but personally Standard is just as enjoyable, and sometimes more so depending on what I'm looking for. I don't care for digital card games by comparison, but can be fun for practice or to learn rules, but otherwise in person is preferable for me.
>>96991781>>Shitty Art Nippon Eddition: :Dimplying that shitty art from nippon isn't leagues better than shitty art from the west
>>96994051American zoomers are uniquely mindbroken and neurotic, which causes them to retreat to the EDH hugbox.
>>96994639Not sure I understand what you mean. Commander seems more unforgiving than standard half the time, at least in my experience.Sure you can try and ask nicely for someone to kill someone else and not you, but thats about the extent of it.I've only recently started playing EDH with some friends, and just the other day I was dead by turn 4 thanks to picrel.
>>96994639The only time I have met a commander player irl he was older than me
>>96994366The entire story the Scars of Mirrodin block feels like a vindictive fuck you towards everything in Mirrodin honestly
>>96994724Absolutely. It was kind of nuts to have all these almost planeswalkers like Glissa be forced to give up their sparks and for it to ultimately mean nothing.But again, I think the Venser fixation in particular has to do with Karn personally being very flippant about Venser killing himself to save him.
>>96994639Zoomers don't play MTG
Ultimately the problem with Commander is not the Commander itself.The problem is that it's became the cash cow for Wotc (and Hasbro by extension), so every decision they make about Magic is always to the benefit of Commander and more often than not detriment to non-Commander formats.
>>96994216just call azula players pedos if you want to be a twitter gatekeeper, its in vogue anyway
>>96991536Bolas only really died once and he came back because Elder Dragon and Time Spiral was going on at the time. They could finagle some ways to bring somebody like Venser back but I think they just generally want somebody to stay dead if they die with some exceptions given to REALLY big-deal characters, but even then... Eh.
>>96994724Quest for Karn is arguably the worst Magic fiction ever to be honest. I know people harp on Forsaken but Forsaken is "just" boring and out-of-character. Quest for Karn just does so much nonsense.
>>96994720>I've only recently started playing EDH with some friends, and just the other day I was dead by turn 4 thanks to picrel.See you seem to be in a group similar to my own, where some friends, most of which are longtime mtg players, picked up EDH as a side thing for fun. But try to replicate that game with EDH-only randos and whoever got that turn 4 kill would be getting lectured about ruining the fun for the table.
>>96991620Additionally, they very clearly set up methods by which Elspeth could come back. She was very intentionally meant to be revived from the moment they wrote her dying.Gideon, meanwhile, died in a very 'final' way, despite him ostensibly meeting up with his old Theros friends in the afterlife (but I think that's more meant to be a symbolic art rather than literal anyway).
>>96994720EDH is to MTG as Dota/League is to RTS. Whenever you lose you can always just blame some external factor like your idiot opponents letting some guy resolve a Rhystic Study. This skirts the 'ladder anxiety' problem of a 1v1 card game by turning everything into a low-stakes board game.
>>96994820As far as I know all of us except one person had played standard prior to EDH.Ironically enough, the person who won that game overall was the person who started with commander, and only because I was able to cause the person playing Ghyrson to deal a substantial amount of damage to himself once before I died.Most of them do tend to be of the mind set of "lose fast and start a new game" though which to me isnt really that enjoyable given how long a full table rotation can take in commander/edh. But it is what it is. I still have fun with the most of the time.
>>96994844Not on dota. The constant variable is you there.
>>96994890It's not a matter of people who started playing with commander being worse players, someone that hasn't been playing for super long can learn the game just like any other person who started before them once did, but starting out in a group of people who played non-EDH formats probably made the new guy learn that playing in order to win a game is the natural state of a game. It seems silly (because it is), but in many groups of EDH-onlies the notion that the plays you make are made in order to somehow progress to a state where the game eventually ends is completely alien and offensive to them.
Please buy Spider-man.
>>96994911nah
>>96994771even if wotc didn't give a fuck about commander the format would still suck because its rules set is fundamentally flawed and incompatable with regular MTG.
dumb apes can't handle packages right
>>96994808These retards know what they're doing at this point. This shit is headed directly for the Infinite Crisis MTG Edition.
>>96994960
>>96994962>tfw Urza and Yawgmoth, Bolas and Ugin, etc. are actually ancient reincarnations of blah blah blah from the Oververse and blah blah blah blah blah need Eldrazi to reset the blah blah blah now watch the Netflix show.
>>96994911man its such an oldhead move to think Spidey is still a solo carry, it'd make sense if it didn't come directly after the Tumblr sets
>>96994908>plays you make are made in order to somehow progress to a state where the game eventually ends is completely alien and offensive to them.I've noticed this, and I do think it is a bit a of a dumb idea.But at the same time, I do think a 3 turn game ender isn't really that enjoyable.
>>96994911probably actually a smart move if you're a whale to grab a crate of these and throw them in some temp controlled warehouse so your grandkid can be wealthy off shit everyone else used as coasters
>>96994908>when judges want to play something other than magic
>>96994768I'm a zoomer and I play MTG. Only standard and draft though. Started around 2014
>>96994997>buying fat packs for $70 each and paying tens of thousands to store them for two generations from nowmagic will not last that long, anon
>>96995182Yes it will. Also, I meant like a whale who has such storage space on hand, not a bespoke temperature-controlled facility. >>96994962
>>96994724>>96994753I'm pretty sure the entire premise of Scars (the elders of Mirrodin vanishing from the plane) makes literally no sense. There should be like 4 or so people that even remember being taken by Memnarch literally everyone else was born in the plane. There was an entire plot point of how among all the elves and trolls there was one fucking guy who remembered, the last remaining non-Mirrodin troll. The fundamental concept of the block that led to Glissa and Slobad and everyone else dying doesn't fucking work even a little
>>96994808Quest for Karn is up there but for me it's Teeth of Akoum
>>96995182It totally will and you know it.
>>96995263I don't think this writer knows how cheese works
>>96991667>>96992081>>96992179I cut it. I’ve put in two hero’s blades instead of elixirs. And made a bunch of other changes. I just don’t like the buster sword, it annoys me for some reason. It snowballs out of control.> I'd be way more worried about cards like Ardyn and DionThey’re on the chopping block potentially as well but for some reason they don’t annoy me as much. Maybe it’s because they’re not a colorless weapon.
Wasn't this supposed to not be delivered for like 2 weeks
>>96995313Forgot pic
>>96995319>>96995313Prerelease was yesterday famalam
>>96995324Oh I see
>>96995324These days isnt "prerelease" just actual release?I swear almost every store just starts selling them same day.
>>96993075Keep larping kike, it won’t make your delusions true
>>96995367Pretty much, it's like how Christmas creeps earlier and earlier every year.
What is /mtg/ doing right now? Working on an Avatar deck
>>96990771Was this the one with 1 fetch land? Sad that modern is shit now.>>96991536He gave his heart to Karn. Technically Karn had Urza's, Glacian's, and Venser's soul inside him. >>96994798>stay dead if they die with some exceptions given to REALLY big-deal charactersI wouldn't call Ertai a big character....The guy had his death on screen (in books). WotC is so retarded they couldn't even check a wiki before bringing him back...(I hope I choose the right pic)>>96995324If you hadn't said it I would not know. Only 2 pics of anons showing new cards. (member when there was at least 20 pics of prerelease pools)
>>96992169I went 2-1. Got in a 5 way tie for second place and won 3 packs. I got Ozai, the Phoenix king as the promo and then I drew another one from a pack. I also got Zuko, conflicted, day of black sun and Ozai's cruelty. The game plan was to basically stall as much as possible, playing removal (8 of them) and cheap blockers until I could play Ozai and win the game.I didn't understand the round 3 pairings. I was 1-1 and played a guy who was 2-0 and another guy who was 1-1 played a guy who was 0-2. I think they fucked something up, which is why it was such a big tie at the end.
why did they add shrines to this setare we getting shrines in lorwyn/strixhaven?
>>96995577
>>96995577Probably not, as usual it was for 5c commanderslop
>>96995533Sealed with my friends soon. Don’t have the avatar cards yet but I still have some Amonkhet packs. Amonkhet sealed is better than draft, not quite as aggressive.
Autistic worrier asking a dumb Autistic question. Been playing arena for like 2 weeks for standard, gotten really into it and wanted to play irl commander, learned theres a small lgs (literal basement but decent sized), and I want to know, do you just, ask if a pod has room for ya? Dumb i know but socially inept and awkward, and just want to buy a precon and play after double sleeving it at the place.
>>96995835Yeah, just ask. People aren't mind readers. You should probably should go to the commander thread, they might have more specific advice.
>>96995835No idea. Ask the LGS. Different places do things their own way. Last time I went I just showed up when it was organised and paid a fee to play. Won some cards because I came in first place which was kind of bullshit because my friend at the table played kingmaker and made me win over someone else.
playpremodern
>>96992444>>96996064Ban ritualposters.
How do we feel about him?
>>96996085It's basically a 2cmc mana dork that provides leyline of abundance for all your other dorks. He'll be good if green is good. Maybe even if it's not.
>>96995533Jeskai Blink vs Rakdos discard
>>96994604two shades of shit
>>96996085Green devotion Pioneer.
Khaki pants? Polo shirt? God I hate UB slop.
>>96995275Yep. >>96994973
I love resplendent angel
>>96995372Pretending to be me won't trick anyone, kikewater
>>96996085UBshit/10
>>96995533I just played Avatar Jumpstart with my roommate who likes Avatar. he seemed to have fun having never really played before and just watched some Arena over my shoulder once or twice. cards have so much fucking text nowadays lol I had to explain every little thingAlso I opened a "Kyoshi" theme, which contains "Avatar Kyoshi, Earthbender" and "Tectonic Split". According to TCGplayer, these cards are valued at $12 and $10 respectively, but surely those values are going to crash in the next week or so, right? They aren't reprints so I don't have a baseline to compare them to...
>>96995285I don't think (you) know how Kor milk works.
>>96996696The former, yes since they'll use them once then get bored; the latter, maybe not. Sure, you lose half your lands; but then your lands give triple mana of any color, so it's not even that much of a negative
>>96990771You can get them cheaper on TCG sadly ain’t worth crap.One time at target I found a stack of baldur’s gate precons stashed behind a bunch of lorcana crap for 50 dollars each. That was an easy flip.
>>96993628>Is just me or this set is one of the biggest shits they ever printed?
>>96993628>Is just me or this set is one of the biggest shits they ever printed?>Bestiality as a major theme, while preaching the virtue of destroying civilization.>Furry porn artists doing card art.>One of the worst limited formats of all time.>Simultaneously destroyed EVERY SINGLE FORMAT.The day WotC tops Ikoria for worst of all time is they day Magic actually dies.
>>96996696Unlikely that either of those cards will be very good, they cost too much despite their big effects. Maybe if they're popular for commander there'll be demand, but the price will most likely drop sooner rather than later.
>>96995835My technique is to either willingly go up to the least annoying group and ask if they have room in their next pod.If no group seems particularly not annoying or if you’d rather have people come to you, just roll out your playmat and start shuffling your deck at an empty table. This is the signal to anyone else coming in that you’re looking for a pod. Never done that and not had at least one person approach. If one guy approaches alone, ask if he wants to play some 1v1 while you wait for more players to show up. Usually people will wanna jump in if it’s the first few turns or just start fresh after that.I’ve been organizing cards for actual 1v1 at smaller stores in the past and had people ask me if I was waiting for a pod lol. You’ll be fine.
>>96995963Prizes for “winners” in pods is fucking dumb. My old LGS just did a raffle. You weren’t even required to pay to play in a pod but it was a way of supporting the store during FNM because prior to that commander players would just take up 75% of the tables and pay nothing. It was like $5 for a chance to win a precon kit or bundle depending on how many people showed up. I once went to a store that did two-headed giant commander with prizes for pod winners, and encountered a team that was a yuriko player and a monoblue control mule whose one and only job was to make sure we couldn’t do anything to interrupt the yuriko player from draining us. Very funny.
>>96996758considering they're not legal in Modern or Standard I'm pretty sure the ONLY people buying them are Commander players, and collectors
>>96996770Yeah I agree pretty stupid given the game is about diplomacy. Everyone got a promo at least but they gave me a couple boosters. My friend got banned for using counterfeit cards after I hooked him up with my contact. I told him not to use them at the store but some people just don’t listen.
>>96996775Yeah that's what I'm saying. They're timmy commander cards, and while commander has a lot of players, there's already a lot of timmy commander cards.
>>96996786Who the fuck was deck checking during a commander game? Lmao. I see so many trash prints in official cards since Neon Dynasty I probably wouldn’t bat an eye.
>>96996798>Who the fuck was deck checking during a commander game?Yeah it’s pretty retarded. This was several years ago I think, just before Theros. I wasn’t there so don’t know the details. I think he showed up with a deck filled with extremely expensive cards and was showing off.
>>96996747>Bestiality as a major theme, while preaching the virtue of destroying civilization.This sounds like bullshit you randomly made up tbdesu.
>>96996845he's exaggerating / very strongly interpreting thematic material with the first half of that statement. but not the second. the most sympathetic way you could read it is as a "both sides make good points" kind of deal, with the strongest argument in favor of destroying civilization being something like "Kudro is a meaniehead"
Ikoria media literacy be like: No you must empathize with the giant carnivorous monsters that trample upon things (especially Godzilla, Death Corona, who is not a herald of any plague) and let them inside our walls because ... because otherwise it's racist okay?
>>96996916>/mtg/ media literacy be like: giant apocalyptic monsters are bad, that means any and all actions are reasonable as long as justification is their eradicationThey were pretty clearly not against killing the big bad guys, even the pokemon trainers were fighting them.
>>96996845>>96996875everybody knows Ikoria is the monsterfucker set
>>96996967yjk
fuck the monsties
>>96996916Nobody thought that, not even the Bonders. They just wanted Drannith to stop killing their people.
>>96996845>This sounds like bullshit you randomly made up tbdesu."The author's barely disguised fetish" is still the author's fetish, anon.And the second half of that statement, no, it is no exaggeration. The entire plot of Ikoria was about how heroic it is to butcher every person who thinks society is good by unleashing hellish monsters upon them. The story presents the total destruction of civilization and the massacre of people who uphold it as a good thing, and it presents the guy who is protecting one of the few remaining cities of the world against endless hoards of monsters as the villain. It is a repulsive, anti-moral story and unironically one of the most vile stories ever told.
I still can't fucking believe the Coppercoats were the villains of the Ikoria story. And the monsterfuckers conspiring to kill feed everyone on the plane to monsters and destroy all of civilization were the heroes.Like what the fuck even, man. What kind of rotten black-hearted sack of shit do you have to be to write something so repulsive?
>>96997102>>96997116Anon are you okay?
>>96997116Anon ... the "humans" won. Look at this creature. You trust it's a human right?
>>96997124No, I am not okay.I live in the cursed timeline where Ikoria got released.
>>96993628It's not even the worst set this year.Not even the second worst set this year.The Avatar set seems decent enough but probably not particularly memorable.
Did any of you guys go to your prereleases these past few daysMy bf and I got some bangers>Koh the Facestealer>Wan Shi Tong Librarian>Wall of Ba Sing Se>Bumi Unleashed>The Legend of Kuruk + Yangchen + Kyoshi>Volcano of Roku's Island>Plenty of solid rares and borderless cardsAbsolutely gonna make a mono blue commander deck with Wan Shi Tong. I want to run cards that let my opponents tutor left and right. Good recommends?
>>96997238Not sure if gay or e-girl
>>96997252Recommend cards or share what you pulled motherfucker
>>96996639Your tired larping kike joke is as dead as your brain cells Nosewater
>>96997238>BFTits or gtfo>But I’m maleLol faggot
>>96997102>The story presents the total destruction of civilization and the massacre of people who uphold it as a good thingIt literally does not. Lukka is presented as a tragic villain who lost touch with reality and started abusing the eludha via the Ozolith to force monsters to obey him. When Kudro called him insane for wanting to use monsters to protect Drannith Lukka killed him and was shocked that everyone thought he was the bad guy. At no point does anybody other than maybe Vivien (kek) think that what he did was justified.
>>96997238My packs had jack shit other than Ba Sing Se and Lotus Tile... those didn't help me win any games at least I can sell them to commander players for $10 a pop3-1
>>96997301faaaaaaagggggo kill people and die in the war you keyboard raping bitch
>>96997316based>>96997238based>>96997269gawd tierwould prey on10/10
>>96996967thats why its peak
i just really don't like the outfits for the humans on ikoria they look like extras on an '00s Sci-Fi channel original series
>>96996570>using the we wuz latinx Resplendent Angel artThe absolute state of Ajani's Pridemate players
Ikoria should have just been Naya 2.0
>>96997411Bros but think about Godzilla (and the obese purple haired people named "Knotters") ... those won't fit Naya!
I've never really played MTG but I like avatar and want to play green/white/redis that viable or am I fucked
>>96997394I legitimately don't know how to unlock alt art.
>>96997423in draft? yeah that's be an allies deck probably with a green base so you can fix your land more easilyin standard? well it wouldn't be viable to the top of the ladder but you could get some wins in casual gamesif you have this guy, boom, you're there
>>96996747>Furry porn artists doing card artQRD?
>>96997441>https://www.furaffinity.net/user/caraid/for example
okay hear me out
>>96997461Pretty shit, be better if it tapped for blue.
How about>Fiveome>Land - Island Mountain Plains Forest Swamp>When ~ enters, each opponent creates a treasure token
why are we trying to enable 5 color slop again?
>>96997441>QRD?Furry porn artists were hired to do card art for Ikoria.I don't know how much more of a QRD would be needed for you to understand it.
>>96997332The Ikoria book is fanfiction anon.The canon story is on the cards. The book is not canon.
>>96997238>WotC failed viral marketing attempt no. 8 billionBuy an ad, you morons.
>>96997493nta but list out the artists so my friend can research
>>96997501I am genuinely having fun animeshitter!
>>96997502No. Do it yourself.
>>96997505>I am genuinely having funThe chairman of the Septic Tank Diving Enthusiast Association of Nebraska be like...
>>96997125>Get back into MtG because of FF I'm sorry>Get picrel>Damn this card is fun and really strong!>Wonder what the original art/design is likeWhat a let down when I looked it up.
>>96997498>The canon story is on the cards.Only supports my point.
>>96996085A good, but boring card. It would have been a very solid uncommon or common a decade ago
>was gonna try and make my own revisions to the Avatar Jumpstart packs I've opened>do a little poking around and find out some guy already did exactly what I was planning on doing for every single theme in both setswell okay I feel somewhat jilted now. this started because I opened picrel and it was such a lame theme -- the Serpent has a "Three or more Lessons" payoff, but the pack only has one Lesson! so if your other pack doesn't have at least two lessons then it's literally impossible to flash in the Serpent. so that's one out of four packs opened so far that I was at least a little disappointed in.
>>96997536I'm gonna assume you didn't realize that that's the Badgermole *Cub* alt art which is a thirty dollar mythic
>>96997552I know what it is. It should be an uncommon. It has no reason to be mythic. It's just more lotus cobra nonsense
>>96997502see >>96997451
>>96997562oh that's just not okay
>Playing Arena till I win a game>Playing for 2 hours nowGuess its no fun allowed tonight.
>>96997615wtf are you playing?bo1 casual should pin you against an equally bad deck for a relatively fair game
>>96997661Just the precons in ranked.I won straight to Silver 2 when I reinstalled, and now I've just been playing and still not won a single game with it lol.
>>96997671>>96997661
>>96997671If games are going be won based on random draw anyways, might as well have fun in casualyou can play anything you want and win, I almost wonder if they have bots running in casual to lose against players on purpose
>>96997690Just wanted to see if I could get to gold with the precons.Finally won a game after. And now I'm going to sleep.
>>96996064I tried pre modern and I really don't see what the hype is all aboutfor reference I played stifflenaught, goblins, oath and psychatog and it really didn't feel very engaging, I get that the appeal is to use high powered cards but being able to just go stifflenaught and hold gush + foil or just ahving retarded powerful staples around like STP and Wasteland just ain't it for me.
>>96994724>>96994753>>96995248The issues with Scars were twofold.One is that Mirrodin from its initial creation was indented to be a backdoor reintroduction for the Phyrexians when the team felt it was time to pull the trigger and so the plane had that albatross around its neck.Second is that Scars block was Mark's self professed hardest series of sets to make as designer, like days away from costing him his position if he couldn't get it together levels of issues, which combined with stuff like Doug's article of how long the iterative process to name just the Metalcraft mechanics shows that while the team wanted to return to Mirrodin they had no clear idea about what to actually do with that return, which bled out into the rest of the material around the set.
>>96996747Are you forgetting Neo Tarkir's Necrophilia?
>>96997116>I still can't fucking believe the Coppercoats were the villains of the Ikoria story.They literally were not? Kudro was the villain because he would rather see Ikoria continue fighting monsters for all of eternity to cling to his power then simply use the solution to the goddamn problem that bonders provided them, the coppercoats themselves are nothing but heroic. In fact the people hunting Lukka aren't even part of them because Kudro k ew they wouldn't want to murder their own captain
>>96997425You either click on not collected or you click on the diamond next to the craft button.
You know what Standard really needs?A Blazing Shoal reprint.
So is this owl bro going to make draw go blue control decks a thing in Standard again? Like voice of victory could be a problem, but flashing out a big ass flying vigilance that draws a bunch of cards at endstep seems pretty strong, doesn't even need to be mono blue, fuck stick it in a blue green ramp deck or esper control pile.
>>96998035Lol no. If anything, he's going to slot into UB midrange and make Kaito even more cancer.
My Jund Roots has actually been performing decently standard is fucking saved
>>96998129post list my guy
>>96998129>My Jund Roots has actually been performing decently standard is fucking savedYeah the slight easing off of the gas pedal has let a lot of decks that need to not just fucking instantly die on turn 3 do their thing. I wish UB ate a Kaito or Creativity ban too but whatever.
>>969981491 Osteomancer Adept (BLB) 1031 Mountain (BLB) 3764 Overlord of the Balemurk (DSK) 1132 Enduring Courage (DSK) 1331 Swamp (DSK) 2821 Agatha's Soul Cauldron (WOE) 2422 Insidious Fungus (DSK) 1864 Forest (DSK) 2864 Insidious Roots (MKM) 2082 Dredger's Insight (DFT) 1594 Terra, Magical Adept (FIN) 2451 Cosmogoyf (EOE) 2151 Blood Spatter Analysis (MKM) 1892 Scavenging Ooze (FDN) 2324 Molt Tender (DFT) 1714 Rubblebelt Maverick (MKM) 1741 Defiled Crypt // Cadaver Lab (DSK) 914 Gene Pollinator (EOE) 1861 Great Arashin City (TDM) 2573 Stomping Ground (EOE) 2582 Thornspire Verge (DSK) 2704 Wastewood Verge (DFT) 2682 Blooming Marsh (KLR) 2802 Underground Mortuary (MKM) 2711 Fabled Passage (BLB) 2522 Curious Forager (BLB) 169
>>96998172>Cosmogoyfbased
Would you celebrate with me, anon?
>>96998198No.
>>96998198SureI'll gift you an octopus so I can have 3 of them.
>>96998250
>>96998270>Gift an Octopus>Gain nothing for giving the gift.What did they mean by this?
>>96998288Reading the card explains the card.
>>96998288It's for the holiday Cheer.
>>96998292>ctrl + f>"If the gift was promised">0 resultsYes, and? Just create the fucking token. There is no need to make it the Gift mechanic if you aren't using the fucking function of the Gift mechanic.
>>96998270A-A-Anon, are you into tentacles?
>>96998297are you stupid
>>96998321Explain why the card needs the Gift mechanic, please.
>>96998341So you can (optionally) give your opp an 8/8 octopus that you can create a copy of on the end phase using his trigger.NTA even, you're just retarded.
>>96998341Gift is there to give you the option to give an opponent the token. If you give the opponent the token, Octomancer can then copy it for you. If you'd rather copy something else or just get Octomancer now you can not do that
>>96998381>So you can (optionally) give your opp an 8/8 octopus that you can create a copy of on the end phase using his trigger.No that can be done with normal triggers.I asked why does it need the Gift ability, retard.
>>96998384>Gift is there to give you the option to give an opponent the token.That can be done with normal triggers, you moron.Why does it need the GIFT ability. THE GIFT ABILITY. Learn to fucking read lmao.
>>96998385Because it's a Bloomburrow card. It's using a set mechanic to do something cheeky with the wording. You're giving your opponent a benefit to benefit yourself as well, just because the card doesn't directly use the other half doesn't mean it's functionally a Gift card
>>96998389Why do cards have "fight" instead of "each deals damage equal to its power to each other?" The point of a keyword is to take a mechanic and, you guessed it, key it to a word or phrase.It's a card that can optionally give something to the opponent for a benefit and it's Bloomburrow so it fits in theme, why wouldn't it have the Bloomburrow "optionally give an opponent something to benefit yourself" keyword?
>>96998385>Why does the gift mechanic exist in the first place if you can just use normal triggers instead?Gee I dunno, maybe because that's a set mechanic that other cards sometimes interact with?At this point you're just bitching about Gifting existing as a mechanic.
>show up at venue for games unrelated to mtg>huh overflow parking? never seen that here before>wander around for a bit, ask some bro on the move what the hustle is all about>"oh there's a mox on the line"that's how you hype your game.
>>96998394Not relevant. It does not use the Gift mechanic. It should not include the Gift mechanic. That's as retarded as printing Lesson cards without the Learn mechanic.>>96998400>Why do cards have "fight" instead of "each deals damage equal to its power to each other?" The point of a keyword is to take a mechanic and, you guessed it, key it to a word or phrase.Fight is a standalone action keyword. Gift is a linked ability. Linked abilities require two halves. This card does not have the second half. It should not be Gift keyworded.>>96998402>Gee I dunno, maybe because that's a set mechanic that other cards sometimes interact with?Not relevant. If you want the card to feature the fucking set mechanic, MAKE A DESIGN THAT FEATURES THE FUCKING SET MECHANIC. Don't just staple the keyword onto a design that doesn't even fucking feature half the keyword.
>>96998421>MAKE A DESIGN THAT FEATURES THE FUCKING SET MECHANICIT DOES It FUNCTIONALLY DOESThat is the entire concept of the card you retard it lets you benefit from the opponent gaining something without necessarily having to spell it out directly with if the gift was promisedYou are retarded
>>96998427>IT DOESWhere on the card does it say "If the gift was promised" anon?Point to the line. Surely you wouldn't just blatantly make a completely, easily proven to be false statement?
>>96998421>If you want the card to feature the fucking set mechanic, MAKE A DESIGN THAT FEATURES THE FUCKING SET MECHANIC.It literally does. You're the only one claiming that there needs to be a second half to giving a gift.Why is it mechanically relevant? Because of cards like picrel. Shut up already and accept the loss, you aren't half as clever as you think you are.
>>96998434It has an effect that lets you benefit from the octopus entering (making a copy of it)It doesn't directly spell it out via "if the gift was promised" but if you have an IQ above 10 you can grasp the intent of the card
so is this how people reacted to the "sacrifice cycling" cards in urza's destiny that didn't have the word cycling written on them
>>96998442>It literally does.I love when people just state blatant fucking falsehoods that can be easily and instantaneously disproven. Fuck off, you liar. The card is posted int his fucking thread. I can read it. It does not, in fact, use the mechanic. It is in plain fucking text. You are a lying sack of shit.
>Pigeon picking up hot dog from NYC is... le bad!>Pigeon picking up kwason from Art Deco land New Capenna is... le good!>Several dozen Spider Hero cards with Marvel flavoring is... le bad!>Several dozen Spider Hero cards with basically no flavor is... le good!Was Through the Omenpaths good?
>>96998475>Was Through the Omenpaths good?It was medium at best with some outliers being "good," but if it is true that they had to scramble at the last minute to put the art and flavor for it together, then that would bump it up to good imo
>>96998447Nta but the gift is a kicker cost. With this card there is no kicker, just optional token creation.
>>96998498If it was kicker, surely the word kicker would be written on the card.
>>96998475in principle they're slightly better than the spooder cards. yes, in principle, a pigeon stealing food in New Capenna is less objectionable than the same thing happening in NYC with a Peter Parker quote in the flavor text. in principle. but in practice1. still pretty bad because of the weird theming (so many ugly spider hybrids and cards from planes that have nothing in particular to do with spiders and yet have a giant spider in the card) 2. the artwork itself was lower quality than average. just compare the two illustrations in your post
>>96998447>It doesn't directly spell it out via "if the gift was promised"Correct. Thank you. I am right.
>>96998501>NOOOOO! It literally has to say the word kicker on it or else I can't gain an additional effect by paying an additional cost!!!!1!!!!11!it's too early in the morning for this level of autism
>>96998506But it doesn't give you an additional effect when you pay the additional cost.
>>96998506If it doesn't use the gift mechanic, why does it have the gift mechanic anon?
>>96998501Anon, there's only kicker and horsemanship.
>>96998510It literally does>give an opponent an 8/8>end of turn copy the opponent's 8/8 and now you have oneadditional cost, additional effect. Sure, you can have other tokens out to copy and not require the gift but with the very safe assumption that there's an empty board, there are no other tokens out to copy
>>96998475>Was Through the Omenpaths good?Better than Spooder, but that's practically a vacuous statement.I would have liked it more if it didn't have a shitton of legendaries that were converted into irrelevant nonsense characters. I liked having a bunch of cards set in previous planes, but then a legend shows up and it's like a bootleg character from whatever China's equivalent of MtG is.>>96998498Ah don't start with this. "It needs to behave like kicker despite not being kicker". "It needs a second half that references the gift but I won't show you where it says that".Quit encouraging the retard.
>>96998526>It literally doesImagine having the fucking gall to make such a bold faced, blatant, easily and trivially disproven lie when the thing that disproves that lie is literally in the same fucking thread and the conversation is about that fucking thing.Holy fucking shit FUCK OFF you fucking ass goblin lying fuck. WE CAN SEE THE FUCKING CARD RETARD.WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO GASLIGHT ABOUT THIS. WE CAN READ THE FUCKING CARD. IT IS RIGHT THERE.
>>96998502>the artwork itself was lower quality than average.Just wait for the higher res versions...
this is fun i like you guys
>>96998519nta, and I know it's written as a linked ability in the rules, but like why does that matter?
>>96998548>nta, and I know it's written as a linked ability in the rules, but like why does that matter?Because good design is important.
>>96998545ick
>>96998545>i like you guyskinda gae bro
>>96998519It uses the gift mechanic because that was the set the card was made for. It would be utterly asinine to spell it out using three lines of text when they made a mechanic that could shorten it to three words>>96998536your entire discussion about the card revolved around why it doesn't say the phrase "if the gift was promised," which sure is different than most other gift cards, but what does it matter? You're doing something with the gift after it has been given so effectively it's the same thing, no?
>>96998559>It uses the gift mechanicNo it doesn't. It uses half the gift mechanic, which amounts to it using none of it because the half that's missing is the fucking functional half.>It would be utterly asinine to spell it out using three lines of text when they made a mechanic that could shorten it to three wordsAsinine is stapling a mechanic onto a card for no reason other than "It's the set mechanic" and then not actually having that card use the mechanic.
>>96998552is there any specific misunderstanding or ambiguity that the card could promote in a real play environment?as written it synergizes with Jolly Gerbils. do you think the card would be better if it had an additional line of text saying "If the gift was promised, nothing in particular happens?" Or do you think they should have written out the optional cast/enters trigger entirely without explicit reference to the "Gift" mechanic, like basically turning the reminder text into rules text? Or do you think they just shouldn't have printed this specific card at all
Like for fucking real.>Set Mechanic Card>1UG>Kicker U>When you cast ~, if 4 mana was spent to cast it...You idiots are arguing that this templating would be even remotely acceptable. You are morons.
>>96998567>Asinine is stapling a mechanic onto a card for no reason other than "It's the set mechanic" and then not actually having that card use the mechanic.Sorry Anon but the data shows that players responded negatively when Mercadoan Masques didn't have any new keywords so here's ur keyword lmao enjoy
>>96998576>is there any specific misunderstanding or ambiguity that the card could promote in a real play environment?Not relevant to the problem.It is not a problem about clarity. Whether or not it is clear has nothing to do with the issue of it being a bad design.
>>96998577wow buddy that sure is equivalent
>>96998588Yes, it is.It is, in fact, a fairly direct equivalence.
>>96998590no it's notlet me help>Lands in Your Graveyard Burn Spell>{Mana cost that probably includes red}>Kicker-Sacrifice a land>~ deals damage to any target equal to the number of land cards in your graveyard.
>>96998607Aint a kicker.
>>96998607>adds Kicker to a card>does not reference Kicker in the effect>somehow thinks this is acceptable>somehow thinks this somehow supports his point instead of just demonstrating another thing that you would simply use a regular ability, not a keyword, for.My god he's retarded.
>>96998583whether it's relevant is a matter of opinion is the thing about that. in my opinion it is relevant and it seems relevant to everyone else disagreeing with you, and I hate to break down an autistic /tg/ conversation to its most basic building blocks like this, but are you going to try and convince anyone that it's actually bad design with arguments, or are you just going to repeat that it's bad over and over?because the way I see it is that you've firmly established that the full rules for Gift (which most people who play Gift cards probably aren't even aware of) say one thing, and that if you take those rules at face value, then Octomancer doesn't technically use the entire Gift mechanic. But most people (I think) wouldn't see that as "bad design" even after you've pointed it out, they would just chuckle or maybe even think it's kind of neat.Unless you're seriously arguing that it does not, in fact, trigger Lucky Gerbils? In which case wew imagine playing with this guy, but also maybe you should write an email to Wotc about that, I wonder if they have any reply.
>>96998615you literally get more effect of you pay the additional cost
>>96998620>whether it's relevant is a matter of opinionNo it isn't. It is a matter of logic.Not going to read the rest because you opened with an absolutely idiotic statement.
>>96997451>>96997575Why is this a problem? This art is completely inoffensive.
>>96998624Cool story, bro.It's not kicker.
>>96998626if I had Lucky Gerbils in play and I cast Octomancer and gift you the octopus, would you say that I did or did not trigger the card draw
>>96998624Are x cost spells kickers to you
>>96998618you made an awful lot of assumptions bud
>>96998638Parasitism is bad design and claiming that a bad design works parasitically so it is acceptable is stupid.
>>96998626whether something is 'bad' design is subjective though, sorry to break this to you at the age of 42 but even if something is unclear or even self contradictory that doesn't make it objectively bad design. Richard Garfield even thought that part of the fun of the game would be interpreting weird or unexpected interactions at-table
>>96998475I would take Omenpaths ANY day of the week over UB garbage. I mean the cards at least fit Magic.
>>96998644they sure aren't horsemanship ;)
>>96998648>whether something is 'bad' design is subjective thoughNo it isn't. It's according to the standards of best practices of game design.
>>96998647okay, but now I'm just genuinely curious as to whether you would or would not let me draw the card, as its own question. would you? not playing for prizes or anything just at a commander table, or else imagine that somehow this combo was made legal and then pulled off in a format that you do play if you never play Commander
>>96998656Your curiosity is irrelevant to the card being badly designed. I will not humor your non sequitur stupidity with an answer.
>>96998652>It's according to the standards of best practices of game design.those standards are ultimately subjective and arbitrary, even if they're largely agreeable (which they are) they're the function of human opinions, not objective metrics or fundamental reality.non autistic people with IQ >115 go through this epiphany in elementary school btw
I think the issue is that there is a kicker cost (giving your opponent an octopus) but no kicker result (no extra effect). That the card works or synergizes better is irrelevant. Could've just said "you may create an octopus token for your opponent." Don't make no sense to have it be a kicker cost without a kicker effect.
>>96998652"Best practices of game design" is how Stone Rain got removed from the core set.
>>96998661>those standards are ultimately subjective and arbitraryNo they are developed through trial and error and refines and codified by expertise earned through years of experience.
>>96998660wellokay. I guess I'll never know
>>96998660The judge would rule that the card would be drawn, rendering your entire premise irrelevant.That's the real reason you didn't want to answer.
>>96998666>Could've just said "you may create an octopus token for your opponent." Don't make no sense to have it be a kicker cost without a kicker effect.but then it wouldn't trigger Lucky Gerbils. as written it doesnot for nothing but it's also from a Commander deck that has like 20 gift cards in it. so anyone playing that precon would be able to just glance at the card and understand how it works without even reading the reminder text. the card only becomes (very slightly) confusing and possibly contradictory if you happen to know the official rules text which most people playing don't.
>>96998683I don't care.
>>96998666The kicker cost is promising the gift. The kicker effect is the chosen opponent getting the gift. There can be additional effects that check for whether or not the gift was promised, but they're not required.
>>96998683>rendering your entire premise irrelevant. I mean... not necessarily! Just because a judge would probably make a ruling without much hesitation doesn't mean that something isn't "bad design." I was just genuinely curious to know how anon would handle that situation
>>96998686>but then it wouldn't trigger Lucky Gerbils.Who fucking gives a shit if it triggers fucking Lucky Gerbils. That literally does not matter in the slightest. If they wanted it to trigger the Gift support cards, then they should have given the card a fucking actual Gift ability.Holy fuck you are actually out here arguing that printing a card with "Kicker 1" and literally no text after that is fine because that way it could be countered by Ertai's Trickery. Like actually fuck off that is retarded beyond any form of reason.
>>96998699>Just because a judge would probably make a ruling without much hesitation doesn't mean that something isn't "bad design."At which point this loops back around to "Anon is just bitching about Gifting existing as a mechanic".
>>96998704It has a Gift ability.
>>96998712And a french vanilla creature with "Kicker 1" and no other abilities has a fucking Kicker ability.IT IS A LINKED ABILITY.YOU NEED BOTH HALVES, YOU IDIOT.
>>96998704>Holy fuck you are actually out here arguing that printing a card with "Kicker 1" and literally no text after that is fine because that way it could be countered by Ertai's Trickery.I mean if it was in a precon full of Expend cards and cards like picrel, then... Kind of, yeah!
>>96998721You are very stupid and advocating bad design.
>>96998715"if the gift was promised" is not necessary.702.174.Gift702.174aGift is a keyword that represents two abilities. It is written “Gift a [something].” The first ability is a static ability that functions while the card with gift is on the stack, and the second is either a static ability that functions while the card with gift is on the stack or a triggered ability that functions while the card with gift is on the battlefield. The first ability is always “As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may choose an opponent.” Paying a spell’s gift cost follows the rules for paying additional costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h. The second ability depends on the [something] listed as well as whether the object with the ability is a permanent or an instant or sorcery spell.702.174bOn a permanent, the second ability represented by gift is “When this permanent enters, if its gift cost was paid, [effect].” On an instant or sorcery spell, the second ability represented by gift is “If this spell’s gift cost was paid, [effect].” The specific effect is defined by the [something] listed.
>>96998725>"if the gift was promised" is not necessary.You being unable to parse technically necessary from integral to the design suggests you are not intelligent enough to have conversations about this topic.
>>96998722This is getting really specific but I could even see a Duel Deck (RIP) with an Ertai's Trickery in one of the decks and a "Kicker 1 do nothing" in the other. I would find that cute, it would charm me.
>>96998689"Promising the gift" isnt a cost, it is electing to use an optional ability. Also your mental gymnastics fall apart with literally every other gift card.
>>96998731>I would find that cute, it would charm me.You have shit taste and your opinions should be disregarded.
>>96998734>"Promising the gift" isnt a cost, it is electing to use an optional ability. Also your mental gymnastics fall apart with literally every other gift card.>Knows fully well what his interlocutor meant.>Chooses to be pedantic anyway.For the love of fuck can you stop descending into sophistry at every chance you get for one fucking second?
>>96998734It literally is a cost.
>>96998704Obligatory.
>>96998743>This, but with Kicker 1The world these idiots dream of.
>>96998725>On a permanent, the second ability represented by gift is “When this permanent enters, if its gift cost was paid, [effect].”nta, but that's totally missing from Octomancer, isn't it? He doesn't have any etb, and he also doesn't have anything that cared about whether you promised that gift per se. Like if you summoned an 8/8 octopus through other means the same effect would go off at end step. I'm not seeing how the rules suggest the notion that you don't need that part, or if it's written there, I missed it
>>96998731"But I am a pig, I actually think slop is pretty good!"
>>96998731
>>96998742Are you seriously saying that electing to use an option, is the same as an additional requirement to use an option? Is your brain broken?
>>96998747>Gift is a keyword that represents two abilities. It is written “Gift a [something].”>The specific effect is defined by the [something] listed.It's referring to the chosen opponent creating a token or drawing a card.For instance:702.174d “Gift a Food” means the effect is “The chosen player creates a Food token.”
It's the same reason ronin doesn't have cycling 1R and doesn't synergize with astral slide or the other cards that mention cycling, you guys are just autistic.
>>96998756What did he mean by this?
>>96998748>>96998736Yeah I do actually think that would be pretty neat.To be totally fair, as far as the conversation about Gift goes, I do think that they should rewrite the official rule somehow to account for the existence of Octomancer, just because of the outside chance of confusion when it interacts with the literal one (1) card that cares about the Gift mechanic per se.
>>96998760What did you mean by that?
>>96998754Well, I already posted it, but here:The first ability is a static ability that functions while the card with gift is on the stack, and the second is either a static ability that functions while the card with gift is on the stack or a triggered ability that functions while the card with gift is on the battlefield. The first ability is always “As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may choose an opponent.”
>>96998756I don't know which "side" of the argument you're supporting with this post
>>96998761Octomancer already functions.
>>96998772its doesn’t
>>96998771The one that's not sperging out about how a card uses a set mechanic to do the same effect that's been done before in a different way.
>>96998780Show me the rule that you think it doesn't work with.
I'm gonna take a third path. Octomancer's the result of a promised gift but without any cost. Opponent shouldve gotten to draw a card or something in return for having an octopus foisted upon them.
Side note, why are people shitting themselves about lessons without learn? It's just a different way of working with the mechanic. Nobody would think the goblin creature type was pointless even if there had been a goblincycling mechanic or something like that which called out goblins specifically.
>>96998797>Side note, why are people shitting themselves about lessons without learn? It's just a different way of working with the mechanic.Make a different mechanic then.
>>96998797>why are people shitting themselves about lessons without learn?because then it's just arcane
>>96998804So if LEA had goblincycling on a card, we should never have goblin tribal? This is just lesson tribal.>>96998806Just like how there's no fundamental difference between a goblin and a merfolk without a card telling you.
>>96998747702.174b isn't referring to the "If the gift was promised" phrase, it's defining the creation (or draw) of whatever was gifted, whether that be a fish, food, or whatever. In other words, all Gift cards have two abilities, one being to pay an additional optional cost, the other being an invisible linked ability that creates whatever that cost was for the opponent (or allows the chosen opponent to draw). This is what it means when it says "The specific effect is defined by the [something] listed."That's the hangup that Anon is getting confused on; he's trying to insist that 702.174a is requiring a certain phrase when it's actually defining the creation of the gift.
>>96998809i do not care for your heckin spell tribal, nosewater
I'm gonna learn with Dina.
>>96998809>So if LEA had goblincycling on a card, we should never have goblin tribal? This is just lesson tribal.Make a new mechanic.Lesson is the Learn mechanic. If you don't want to use the Learn mechanic, make a new mechanic.Use mechanics for what they are designed for. Anything else is pure stupidity and total failure.
>>96998820Lesson is not the learn mechanic. Lesson does not mention learn anywhere. Learn is a lesson mechanic. It doesn't go both ways.
>>96998826>Lesson is not the learn mechanic.I am so done with this stupid fucking shit.Yes it is, you idiot. They are inextricably linked within their design space.
>>96998815I didnt respond to your rules quoting because you're too retarded to follow the conversation. At least the people who have different taste from me understand what's going on, you're out in a field somewhere playing by yourself. Feel free to stay over there, you're not even worth being called a slop pig.
Watch out for the cycle of Sorceries with unconditional Flash in the next set! They'll go great in your "Sorceries matter" deck that needs just a few more pieces of instant speed interaction!
>>96998834>Watch out for the cycle of Sorceries with unconditional Flash in the next set! They'll go great in your "Sorceries matter" deckGENIUS!
>>96998831I wasn't the guy who quoted the rules, I just read them and realized what he was talking about. In essence, you're wrong and gifts don't require the second clause you're so hung up on.
>>96998829Where in the rules or cards does lesson mention learn? It's just a subtype. If TLA had come out before STX, you'd have no problem with lessons without learn. Are we going to make new types instead of instants and sorceries because spell mastery exists?
>>96998848>you're so hunghell yeah i am
>>96998848The argument was not that Gift requires a second clause. That is a straw man.
The lazy Gift is pretty sloppy. What I find weird is they gave up on the "investigate" keyword altogether. Really fucks with my "when you investigate" cards. It's like they chose to unslop.
>>96998850>Where in the rules or cards does lesson mention learn?Jesus fucking fuck. Shut up. I don't fucking care if muh rules mention it.What matters is that LESSONS AND LEARN OCCUPY A DESIGN SPACE.The design space is LESSONS ARE THE CARDS WHICH LEARN EFFECTS FIND.Because of this, it is necissary that Lesson cards are designed differently than regular spells. Specifically, with lower power levels, and even better if Lessons include only a specific narrow design space that fits with the flavor themes of the mechanic.IT DOES NOT MATTER IF MUH RULES SAY IT.WHAT MATTERS IS THE DESIGN.Stop it with the fucking sophistic bullshit man. Just fucking stop. It's pathetic.You know what I fucking mean. I know you know what I mean. And yet you still bring up the rules as if it has ANY FUCKING CONSEQUENCE in regards to the quality of a design idea. Design ideas aren't within the rules you fucking retard. Design is a process, not the act of playing the fucking game.
>>96998859Maybe they'll give up predefined tokens altogether
>anon hates horsemanship
>>96998853Then you acknowledge that there is zero problems with Octomancer's logic and that its rules are consistent within the comprehensive rule framework of Gifting?Because I was referring to this guy >>96998434 when discussing Gift rules.
>>96998870>Then you acknowledge that there is zero problems with Octomancer's logic and that its rules are consistent within the comprehensive rule framework of Gifting?Never has this conversation been about even a single bit of that question. I will not answer it, because it is not relevant to the discussion.
>>96998864Why are you acting like there aren't tutors for other types of cards? Mystical teachings exists, so every instant and card with flash is lower in power because of it.
>>96998877take gavin's cock out of your mouth next time you try to talk
>>96998877>Why are you acting like there aren't tutors for other types of cards?I am not and they are not the same thing. Go be an idiot somewhere else.
>>96998864>Because of this, it is necessary that Ninja cards are designed differently than regular creatures. Specifically, with lower power levels, and even better if Ninjas include only a specific narrow design space that fits with the flavor themes of the tribe.hmmm
>>96998890Ninjas are not even remotely similar design space and you are an idiot for attempting to make this comparison.
>>96998875>Never has this conversation been about even a single bit of that question.There are over 60 posts explicitly whinging about it, and the post I replied to read "I'm not seeing how the rules suggest the notion that you don't need that part, or if it's written there, I missed it".Not sure what thread you're reading from, because it clearly isn't this one.
>>96998894Keep coping, I guess. All tribes affect the power level of the card. That's nothing special about Lesson.
>>96998870You legitimately cannot follow a conversation. "Aha, but you see, it doesn't violate health code to serve slop!" No one cares about what you're talking about. Back to your field.
you know maybe if lightning bolt had been an instant - electric and fireball had been a sorcery - fire we could be talking about noncreature tribal
>>96998885What is the design difference between learn getting a lesson and burning wish getting a sorcery?
>>96998875>he backpedaledglad we got that straightened out then
how come no one ever forwardpedals?
>insanely powerful and meta card>really fucking ugly scowling chick on it>reprint it multiple times and it's the same shitty fugly scowling manface bitch>release super duper speshul version only available to pro tour winners>equally ugly sneering middle aged womanWhy do they hate DRC?
>>96998930They've done it a bunch of times already, it's just less explicit than creature tribal. Arcane is the obvious one, but they've also done instant speed tribal, cmc 5+ tribal, cmc 4+ tribal, etc. We've already been talking about noncreature tribal.
>>96998951I think that's called "doubling down".
>>96998946>Put up straw man>Interlocutor won't approach it>Claim interlocutor is backpedallingholy fucking shit you are insufferable
>>96998946>make an unrelated argument against a position no one took, that Octomancer violates the rules>What? Anon, fuck off, that's not what we're discussing>HA! Got em!
>>96998932>What is the design difference between learn getting a lesson and burning wish getting a sorcery?That one of them is Learn/Lesson and the other is a Wish.If you weren't able to answer this question yourself, something might be wrong with your brain.
>>96998912>Keep coping, I guess. All tribes affect the power level of the card. That's nothing special about Lesson.The concept of tribes each having a unique design identity suggesting that Lesson/Learn should ALSO have its own unique identity seems completely lost on you. Which is hilarious. And pitiful.
>>96991536Even if Venser is dead, its not like they CAN'T do a story set sometime in history, while he was still alive"Venser, the Young Planeswalker" or whatever. Why did they even kill him? Mark was just a faggot for no reason?
>>96998972>Even if Venser is dead, its not like they CAN'T do a story set sometime in history, while he was still aliveNo no no we can't do that. Teferi is a time traveller but that doesn't mean he can travel through time.
>>96998972>Mark was just a faggot for no reason?YesI think they just hated Venser because he was a more realistic bluefag self-insert. A powerful and smug genius who is also crippled by his neuroticism, self sabotaging, and addicted to bug juice because he can't turn his brain off any other way. Then they replaced him with the even more insufferable, incredibly bland Jace.
>>96998972>Mark was just a faggot for no reason?He's awakening to the truth, anons.Quiet. Let him ponder.
>>96998797can't wait to play this in standard uggghghg gimme gimme gimme
>>96998971>The concept of tribes each having a unique design identityThere are ninjas without ninjutsu. There are slivers without a sliver ability. Goblins are not always red aggro creatures. They have their own space, but they also sometimes expand outside of that space.
>>96998972>Why did they even kill him? Mark was just a faggot for no reason?They wanted to kill off characters to raise the stakes, but none of the nu-walkers because they wanted to push them as the current face of MtG.In essence, Mark was just a faggot for very boring and corporate reasons.
>>96991536>>96998972it's actually a good thing that some characters die when they are killedthe specific details of his death aside if venser if your boy you should perhaps be glad that he had an exit to the carousel ride that is the magic """story"""
Remember when they had War of the Spark where Nigger Bolas unleashed hundreds of thousands of the most powerful and skilled warriors of a plane dedicated entirely to martial skill, zombified and clad in magic armor and able to rip the soul out of planeswalkers with a single touch, but only like 3 dudes died? And they were the most interesting characters like Dovin and Gideon.
>>96998968I thought you cared about design space, not the exact names or rules?>LESSONS ARE THE CARDS WHICH LEARN EFFECTS FINDSorceries are the cards which burning wish finds. Sorceries are designed differently because of that.
>>96999013>I thought you cared about design space, not the exact names or rules?Retard displays his total inability to understand that design space is centered around the names of things.
>>96999012the story and settings being so dogshit for so long is why I kinda don't care about UB ruining the game's identity. it was "ruined" in 2019 with WAR and MH1.if we had gone straight from KTK or ISD or LRW to Final Fantasy, then yeah that would have been a outrage. but the travesties have already been visited upon the IP and to me it's just a card game now.
>>96998996>There are ninjas without ninjutsu.Who cares.
>>96999028The most pathetic thing is that Magic has been around for 30 fucking years and is THE original TCG but they're actually getting worse at building cohesive lore, a compelling story, or iconic characters. I genuinely do not know what the fuck is even happening in the story and now there's just going to be Universes Beyond shit putting even more time between whatever is going on in the story. And the nu nu-walkers are so bland they make the Lorwyn 5 look like Dostoyevsky characters.
>>96999043>I genuinely do not know what the fuck is even happening in the storyTo the best of my knowledge:>Valgavoth is using his infinite, unstoppable power to send useless minions out and achieve nothing.>Bolas is rubbing his massive cock head against Ugin.>Loot is stealing everyone's breasts.Honestly the lore is a mess.
Valgavoth comes off as a really gay millennial rehash of Yawgmoth.>what if this demon absorbed a whole plane and he just uses it to... uh.. fuck with teenagers, and he's getting clowned in his own dimension by squirrels and shit? and he's a multiversal threat but doesn't do anything?How is this shit so ass?Also the Ikoria discussion made me remember how Lukka discovered the Ozolith and it gave him godlike bonder power and he realized that it's basically responsible for the plane being so fucked and an oldwalker put it there. Who? Why? It doesn't even matter because Ikoria is completely fucked and Lukka is dead and he's the only person who knew about the Ozolith. I fucking hate WotC so much.
>>96999036That's exactly my point. Nobody cares there's ninjas without their signature ability, why the fuck do they care about lessons appearing without learn?
>>96999098>That's exactly my point. Nobody cares there's ninjas without their signature ability, why the fuck do they care about lessons appearing without learn?Because it is bad design to have cards within a design space not conform to the aspects of that design space.>"They have already made mistakes, so why are you upset that they're making more?"Is shit and dumb.
>>96999098Because those are two intertwined mechanics that were released together in one set.
>>96999116>Because it is bad design to have cards within a design space not conform to the aspects of that design space.No it isn't, retard. It's actually bad design to have every tribal card be slaved to the same mechanic so you just ctrl+F an archetype and the decks just build themselves, like in shitty Japanese TCGs.
On the next episode of Magic: the Gathering: instants that can only be cast during your main phase while you have priority and the stack is empty
>>96999116Nobody considers them mistakes, other than you I guess. Design space is always changing and growing. You seem to be incapable of that.>>96999119Finally, someone admits it. Now consider if they had been released separately. Lesson comes out first with the TLA designs, then Learn appears in Strixhaven. Would you still have an issue with the TLA designs? I'm guessing not, despite the cards being exactly the same.
>>96999123>>96999136>"Just accept the inevitable trudge into the festering rectal spew swamp."No I don't think I will.
>>96999091>How is this shit so ass?Because they want edgy, dangerous characters without the edge or the danger that could cause complaints.Imagine if the Weatherlight Saga came out now and we had stories of Urza crushing entire planes down into batteries, generally with people still left on them? And Tsabo doing her thing, along with the horrors of OG Phyrexia?The investors would be appalled and worry about parents not letting their children play MtG.
>>96999148serious question do kids play mtgi've been playing for the last two years and haven't seen anyone below the age of 19 at an event
>>96999142>Just eat the same regurgitated slop over and overNo thanks
Earthbend these nuts.
>>96999148>The investors would be appalled and worry about parents not letting their children play MtG.I don't think any children play MtG unless their parents groom them into it. This game is competing with Fortnite, and that game is free. Lil' Timmy is not going to spend $200 every other month drafting and buying singles when he could get $20 of VBux and get the Season Pass or whatever the fuck and look at hot chicks. I've never seen such a fucking out of touch company as WotC or Hasbro. If Magic in 1993 looked like 2025 Magic the game would have died on the spot and we'd all be playing Rage TCG now.
>>96999175this is just a +2/+2 for earthbenders
Make the new thread
let it dielet MaNo win
This game would be better if MaRo was Mexican
>>96999091>>what if this demon absorbed a whole plane and he just uses it to... uh.. fuck with teenagers, and he's getting clowned in his own dimension by squirrels and shit? and he's a multiversal threat but doesn't do anything?He uses his power to put everyone in his dimension into an infinite treadmill of survival horror so he can continuously feed on his fear. He's an exceedingly simple character: he's a fear eating demon that wants to eat a lot forever. He's not getting clowned on by squirrels at any point. And he's not a multiversal threat, that has literally never been true. He's aiming to be one by trying to find ways to expand his hunting grounds and therefore feed more, but he just hasn't found any yet.
>>96999091>>97000009He's not a multiverse threat but he is a threat to everyone in the multiverse now. The omenpaths have turned duskmourn into a big pitcher plant where anyone from any realm can enter. This in turn has led to the house no longer "playing nice", so all the survivors are now being killed because theres now an endless supply of fear.
Here I made the new>>97000144>>97000144
