>For undead and similar effects, do you use standard level drain, something like Melan/Echo From Fomalhaut's method (Con and Strength drain, with 1 point of recovery per day), or something else?
Standard level drain. Never saw a reason to do otherwise. Players need monsters to actually be afraid of, and psionics needs to have serious risks attached to its use.

>>97012730
I have never used anything but standard level drain, although recently I have been considering using it to attack experience points instead

>>97012999
>recently I have been considering using it to attack experience points instead
Doesn't seem much of a difference at first sight. What would the actual rule be?

>>97012730
I use something similar to the Melan method. I've just never felt the need to have undead be that harsh, though I get some people will see that as weak sauce.

>>97012743
>and psionics needs to have serious risks attached to its use.

I'm missing the connection here. What do you mean?

>>97013013
I know it's not much of a difference but I want these types of creatures to be something I can use as a serious existential threat, without having them instantly shred a high level party.
I was considering something like: (HD*250)*damage die.
I might be overthinking at overcomplicating it, I just like those monsters getting more use, and level drain is so dangerous that it can quickly lead to resentment

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>>97013016
>I'm missing the connection here. What do you mean?
Ah, my bad, I should have clarified that. I have a slightly expanded psionic encounter list that incudes energy draining monsters like wraiths and spectres. I love the official psionic encounter rule (picrel), but several of the monsters on it are a bit of a pain in the ass to run, so I have expanded it with have monsters that are relatively easier to DM while still being scary. I use ghosts too.

Flavour-wise: Think of it like psionic activity acting like a beacon of sorts. These monsters are not psionic per se, but they can feel it and are attracted to it.

>>97013049
>I was considering something like: (HD*250)*damage die.
It's not a bad idea in principle, but the problem with those numbers is that they're a bit of a joke for high level characters.

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>>97013104
4chanX image upload no work? (._.)

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>>97012999

>>97013104
I totally agree with you, figuring out a way to scale it is the issue. Perhaps a multiplier of the creatures hit die and the targets hit die applied to the static value, then multiplied by the damage die?

>>97012730
I like standard level drain; I understand why people think it's too harsh and I respect people toning it down, but in my experience the hazard of real level drain is the only thing that creates the proper fear of those monsters. A wight is basically meaningless without it.

>>97013147
>Perhaps a multiplier of the creatures hit die and the targets hit die applied to the static value, then multiplied by the damage die?
That's better, but still polynomial in HD/level while XP growth is exponential. Did you consider a % of XP loss instead? Something like a flat 10% or 20% per level drained. It's less than standard energy drain, but still fucking annoying.

>>97013164
I agree with you.

>>97013175
You've given me much to consider. I will tinker around a little bit more, maybe put some math on paper, see if I can come up with something that's reasonable and rational

>>97013195
Do let us know your conclusions, I'm curious!

>thread quiet for an hour
>then rapid one post per minute "Yes-indeed" "Oh thank you" posting
huh. that's weird.

>>97013221
...okay? That's how a conversation works

>>97013221
Things got real quiet real quick.

Stupid question: why is green slime considered a creature and not a trap? It really seems like just another trap, but for some reason it has HP. Does anyone have any insight here?

>>97013876
It can move.
Otherwise I agree

>>97012730
TQ: To me energy drain is tied to rolling your hit dice every level, so that rerolling your hit dice upon being level drained isn’t such a big of a deal.

>>97013866
>Um, so THAT just happened!

>>97013866
And now he's right back to it.

>>97012730
I grant a save against it if there isnt already one, otherwise standard.

Also here is the stuff that happened in my last game I guess.
New campaign.
Party is
Human Druid
Elf Cleric
Half-Elf Ranger
Dwarf Fighter
Dwarf Thief
Half-Orc Fighter
Gnome Illusionist

They went to clear an ancient temple that was abandoned a long time ago and became overrun with monsters. The church who lost the temple in the past went on a big crusade/effort to get back the stuff is lost/trying to get its glory days back. Kinda like undergoing a sort of renaissance. One of the high priest hired the party to help them get their temple back. They can get all the treasure back except for religious items which they must bring back. They will be paid extra for each artifact they retrieve and were promised a generous pay if they managed to clear out the temple.
On their way they stumbled upon a small cave which was the lair of giant spiders which captured townsfolk and pretty much anything they could get their hands (claw? Paw? Legs?) on and brought them to this cave to lay their eggs inside live victim. I made it so their poison paralyzed for 24h instead of killing and they could lay their eggs against a paralyzed victim which would kill them in 2d6 days as the eggs would hatch and ear them from the inside unless a Cure Disease spell was used beforehand. They could also shoot webs (as the spell, once per day). The party fought well and killed all the spiders despite the Ranger, Druid, Illusionist and Thief getting paralyzed. The Dwarf fighter died against the last spider, didnt even got paralyzed just bitten to death. The Druid was egged. They find some treasures but no magic item except a healing potion. They did find a bunch of cocoon. Opening them they found mostly dead people/animals. A couple of them still had living people including a bugbear which was to tease the existence of a bugbear lair nearby. The party went back to town with the folks they saved and the bugbear. Cont-

>>97013866
>point that out
>he immediately starts the same minute-by-minute posting again
Jesus christ.

>>97013905
Yes, indeed!
Does traffic in this thread bother you?

>>97013964
Who are you babbling about? And why are you replying to yourself like that?

>>97013913
Is the bugbear going to be welcome in town?

>>97013876
>why is green slime considered a creature and not a trap?
Because it's a creature and not a trap.

>>97014209
>Hey why is the sky blue?
>Uh, have you ever fucking looked, it's blue because that's the color it is when you look at it retard!
Kek never change, you petulant little bitch

>>97013913
Do they realise they're egged?

>>97013913
Cont-
The druid warned those infected of their fate if they did not come with them and convinced the bugbear to also follow them if she did not want to die. On the way back 2/6 townsfolk died from the spiders. They also questioned the bugbear lady but she didnt sell out and told them to fuck off despite the PC offering bribes and threatening to kill her/let her die. (I had her roll for moral with penalties but she still passed all her rolls) So 4 made it + the bugbear. Back in town the party sold their treasure and bought scrolls to cure everyone including the bugbear. They tried one last time to have her crack by showing her the scroll after saving everyone else. They had a big long talk with her and eventually convinced her to spill the beans in exchange for protection and money since she was afraid of getting killed if she went back now that the location of her lair was no longer a secret or killed in the wild if she ran away alone. (The druid player really wanted this bugbear and gaslit the whole party into trying to get her on their side. The Illusionist and Dwarf Fighter players were against it but eventually got outvoted) The player who lost his Dwarf rolled a Half-Elf Fighter with 18/88 Str and they went back to towards the temple. On the way they encountered a pack of wolf which they killed. The ranger skinned them for pelts. Then they stumbled upon poachers/hunters who were capturing exotic animals to sell. The party gave them a good beating and killed one of them by accident. They released all the animals in the wild. Then they decided to make a slight detour to the bugbear's lair. Their bugbear friend (Which I will no refer as Kruffy and yes I am bad with names) told them about the guards and pit trap near the entrance. They killed the two bugbear guards very quickly due to some lucky crits. (I planned for Kruffy to betray them and sell them out but the two guards did not even had the chance to act.) Cont-

>>97014267
I had the druid and ranger rolled for it after they asked to know more about the spiders.
>>97014026
No. They stationed her outside of town with 3 PCs guarding her while the rest went to town.

>>97014338
Thanks for the report, keep'em coming. It was a bit painful to read, though. You should consider using paragraphs next time.

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>>97014251
Not sure what your issue is, Anon. It has hit points, saving throws, a movement rate. Which makes it a creature in the D&D sense.

Alternatively, it has a way of feeding itself, it can reproduce, and it can be killed. Which makes it alive in the biological sense.

Those are all properties of living creatures, not of traps. No idea what makes you thinkit'satrap.

>>97014450
He's asking for the design rationale that explains why it was a creature and not a trap given that it is largely immobile and designed to be a "falls on top of you randomly when you walk under it" effect.

Like I said, you're the kind of autistic retard that would get upset when somebody asks why the sky is blue, instead of just trying to explain how diffraction works.

>>97013895
>To me energy drain is tied to rolling your hit dice every level, so that rerolling your hit dice upon being level drained isn’t such a big of a deal.
Am I the only one who doesn't understand what this means?

>>97014361
Fair.

>>97013876
you can't disarm it
you can fight it

>>97014464
ntayrt
are there other examples of living things, or at least animate creatures, that are traps rather than monsters?

>>97014338
Cont-
The party used Kruffy to get a couple of bugbear to the entrance and pushed them down the pit trap. Worked well until they failed to push one of them who managed to escape and ran away screaming about them. The PCs decided to cut their losses and leave to come back later. Also the bugbear now knew that Kruffy betrayed them since the runaway recognized her. (The druid player used this moment to gloat about how vindicated he was about "recruiting" the bugbear and how much of a good idea it was.) Party went back towards the temple. Met a Dryad like fey who first appeared friendly and invited them to a tea party but she secretly charmed each and everyone of them into becoming her servants except for the elf who resisted and the bugbear and half-orc which she deemed to ugly to charm. The trio beat her to death when she revealed her true color and tried to use the charmed PCs against them. She had a +1 Dagger which the thief took and some jewelry. After some travel they finally arrived at the temple and were greeted by an horde of undead lead by an orc shaman. The party almost wiped but they managed to win by the skin of their teeth.
End of session.

>>97013221
it's almost like you can tell exactly when he makes the discord posts.

>>97014507
I suppose that depends on where you draw the line, because something like a brown mold is technically living but it's a trap.
But basically I can see the line being drawn at ambulation, whether or not something is capable of moving.
Green slime is just one of those weird niche areas

>>97014550
Do you think it's productive to post multiple times in a thread complaining about people talking about games, while yourself babbling about discord?

>>97014464
>it is largely immobile
In AD&D, it is immobile. Like brown mold and yellow mold. Not sure what makes you think that that makes it a creature. Rolling boulders, on the other hand, are traps and not creatures, even if they move.

>and designed to be a "falls on top of you randomly when you walk under it"
Same as piercers and lurkers above (lurker-aboves?). All of them monsters.

>>97014568
Maybe you seem to have a misunderstanding of the conversation here?
In OSE, green slime is not a trap, and is a creature listed as a monster entry. It has a move speed of one foot per round.
I agree with you, that in all respects it should be a trap and not a creature.
However since he asked, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and replying in good faith.

>>97014568
>>97014586
Also I'm sorry if I'm coming across as snarky, today was a bad day

>>97014557
Ambulation and killability makes enough sense to work with as far as I'm concerned. There's potentially argument to be made about various ways of disinfecting mold to be killing it but I'm not sure I want to run Disinfectants & Detergents and get into edition wars about teatree oil splats.

>>97014586
>I agree with you, that in all respects it should be a trap and not a creature.
I'm saying the opposite, that it's a creature and not a trap. Perhaps I wasn't clear? I'm saying that whether something moves or not has nothing to do with whether it's a creature or a trap.

>>97014601
>Also I'm sorry if I'm coming across as snarky, today was a bad day
No big deal, if I had an issue with snark I wouldn't be on 4chan. I do hope tomorrow's better, Anon.

>>97014564
Stop giving him (You)s and contributing to the noise. Hide and report, if it bothers you.

>>97014637
yeah, it moving is why I'm okay with considering it a creature, but I also think it's fairly irrelevant. As for how to remove it? Make it simple and just let them use any strong substance, alcohol, vinegar, hell even lamp oil might be effective.
>>97014640
Thanks for the pleasant exchange.

>>97014470
in od&d before variable hit dice, it can be implied that all hit dice are rerolled upon every level up. so in the case of energy drain, rerolling your hit dice isn’t out of the ordinary.

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>>97014691
The inspiration source for black puddings, as well as green slimes and yellow and brown moulds and similar monsters, is clearly the 1958 movie The Blob, which even had a sequel in 1972, so shortly before D&D came out. Which makes it a monster also from the plot and archetypal point of view, additionally to the technical D&D POV as well as the biological one.

Actually I'm considering rewatching it tonight.