>be me>DM makes shit up, point out what the rules actually say without ulterior motives of gaining advantage ingame>DM: REEEE STOP RULES LAWYERING!11Why shit DMs do this? I literally provided the page number, look it up. Pic AIslop of "fat smug nerd".
>>97015143stay in your containment thread, faggot
>>97015143>be meYikes.
>>97015199>gets her panties in a twist because of capital DThe same concept applies to any system. I've experienced the same exchange in Star Wars and World of Darkness games. There are GMs who don't know the rules as well as they should (which is fine really, I don't expect people to know every rule) but what makes one a shit GM is having too big of an ego to make a correct ruling when presented the actual rules.
>>97015143>be meFirst mistake.
>>97015143>point out what the rules actually say without ulterior motives of gaining advantage ingame>without ulterior motives of gaining advantage ingameNo player has ever done this
>>97015328Lmao the wargamer would NOT be so thankful, more like they would have a shit fit unless a TO is called and they are forced to acknowledge their mistake
>>97015328Consider that wargames and ttrpgs are completely different hobbies.
>>97015343"T-Sports" isn't wargaming>>97015350Not entirely true, TTRPGs are an offshoot of wargaming meant for a more casual (retarded) audience.
>>97015313In fact the actual rules would have been disadvantageous in the situation at hand.
>>97015362Even as early as Greyhawk there was a clear distiction between an RPG and a wargame. The only reason the term RPG exists is because the earliest creators and players determined that they were definitevel not wargames. You're thinking of "skirmish" games like mordheim.
>>97015368>the situation at handThe one that isn't described and didn't happen? yeah okay playoid.
>>97015415"Skirmish Wargames" as you understand them are upscaled RPGs, not downscaled Wargames
>>97015328This is more of modern nu-ttrpg "gamer" issue. I'm pushing 50 and have played since the red box. For me the rules are almost sacrosanct, not to be altered unless there's genuinely nonsensical design flaw or glaring hole in what the rules should cover. At which point it is patched by a houseruling, documented, communicated and considered binding. None of that pulling shit out of my ass ad-hoc and the next time something similar happens pull another completely different ruling like a fucking goldfish lacking long-term memory. And yes I'm aware they don't actually lack long-term memory.
>>97015313I always do this to the impotent cries of my fellow party members. I once corrected a DM who tried to avoid killing one of my characters. I don't give a fuck, the Game is what matters.
>>97015143What was the rule that was being disputed? Surely you'd be able to provide it and the context for the dispute to prove this isn't at all a bait thread.
>>97015460>how would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast today?>me eat brekfest cuh, wadda u meen *scratches nose*
>>97015496Is that your final answer, OP?
>>97015496It is funny how retarded and autistic most of /tg/ is nowadays, most would fail the breakfast question>what system>what setting>when did this happen>is this real>that never happened to me
>>97015514>>97015496Why is it a simple question for more details makes you so upset? Aaah, I get it - no answer because no games...
>>97015557Do you have a time that a GM made a ruling that you disagreed with?
>>97015514Back in the 80s when I was a kid normies around me called ttrpgs "smart kid hobbies". They'd be disappointed to see kids these days fail to even engage in hypotheticals. You'd think you NEED to be able to understand "imagine if" to be able to play ttrpgs in the first place, but apparently not.
>>97015680ttrpgs are for gay kids now, smart kids still play non-warhammer wargames
>>97015680Asking “what was the disputed rule” is more than just a gotcha. Some rule disputes are egregious enough to warrant some autist calling it out for consistency sake, while others are either based on such situational interactions that pestering the GM about every single one bogs the game down, or the conflict is in regards to a GM’s stated homebrew going against rules as written. So it’s information that would be better for answering this hypothetical than just presuming one side is too autistic to let a minor ruling slide.4jjnv
>>97015143I am generally the forever GM in most situations and it's been that way since TSR, FASA, and GDW were still a thing. I have run at least 20 different systems over the years and I've run into several things that might be why he does things this way.1. He's read the rules, knows they're borked, and now he's doing what he can to turn it into an actual game. For me, Shadowrun 2e; I loved so much about it except the rules. A lot of rules systems will actually not be systems but a Frankenstein mess of individual rules that seem cool on their own with out being tested.2. The rule in question adds effort and complexity without adding fun. There are so many games with edge case rules that don't add to the gaming experience. There are games where certain rules only make sense in one type of campaign, like in Traveller. (If you're doing a freetrader game then you need a lot of economic rules but if you're a deep space salvage team it just adds paperwork that doesn't add fun.)3. He's so used to players ignoring rules that he doesn't bother to use them all. I have a friend that loves RPGs and will play anything you're running and then turns it into 5e because he doesn't learn new rules systems. So do you spend game time making him feel like shit or do you just roll with it and have fun?4. He's in over his head. A lot of GMing is being the marionette puppeteer while doing taxes. A lot of good GMs are just average Joes who don't have high intelligence, fastidious record keeping skills, or good multitasking ability. A lot of GMs take shortcuts and rely snap judgements to make things move forward.Finally, I'll say that Rule 0 is a thing and players should respect it. He's running the game, it's his call. As long as he's consistent, you should be fine. Also, in the middle of a session is not the time to bring up the rule as you're breaking the session and his flow, bring it to him one-on-one later.>Pic AIslop of "fat smug nerd". Matt Coleville
>this repulsive lazy shitpost thread will stay up for weeks or months while mods yeeted a thread discussing the problems with this board and 4chan in general.This site is absolutely disgusting at this point. Nothing but lazy shitposting, A.I. image spam, shills, schizos, bots and retards. 2016 was a paradise compare to today.
>>97015447>I'm pushing 50 andOpinion discarded
>>97015143If your intent is just to help the GM and no player at the table is getting screwed over by a ruling - it's better for game flow and pacing that you just go with the GM's ruling at the time and bring it up later. Doesn't disrupt the game, but still helps GM with rules knowledge. Nobody else at the table wants their limited gaming hours broken up by people having to check the rulebook.
>>97015447>I'm pushing 50I say this with love in my heart and wishing the best for you, you should probably stop browsing 4chan
>>97015865>Also, in the middle of a session is not the time to bring up the rule as you're breaking the session and his flow, bring it to him one-on-one later.I feel for your players who have been stuck with a shit DM like you. This isn't a movie that you are directing, it is a game. Discussion about games only makes normies uncomfortable, you should ask yourself why you are playing with people who dislike games.
>>97015313yeah they have
>>97015680If this hasn't happened to you, you have no reason to care.If it has happened to you, you are capable of providing an example.
>>97015962What else are you going to talk about, faggot? It's not like you've ever played a game in your life.
>>97016431>Rules lawyering is fun!Yeah, because all the other players love to hear that one guy nitpick over some dumb obscure rule in the book for 45 minutes rather than getting on with the adventure.Be a good little spurg and keep your time wasting nonsense in your pants until it's not bothering anyone else.
I'll do whatever the fuck I want and you WILL learn to play the game correctly or I'll kill you.
>>97016536Yes, sorry normgroid but you add nothing to the game
>>97015270He meant the AIslop you fucking slopfag.
>>97016571>killing your players for their characters actionsbased
>>97016609>Luddite janny impersonatorLMAOing @ ur life
>>97015447You're a liar and/or an idiot. ADnD rules were essentially unplayable as written and there is not a single table that played the game RAW. Some think they did, but they were simply confidently wrong. A game master was initially called a referee for a reason: they adjudicated rules and scenarios. Gary was obsessed with trying to create something air tight that handled every scenario, but never accomplished it and he himself gave up and simply started making shit up. The hobby of rpg and wargame are deeply intertwined and come from the same roots, and "sacrosanct" immutable rules interpretation has been the siren that has lead us into the rocks of tournament focused wargames and ttrpgs that amount to skirmish battle games that don't actually need a referee at all. An impartial referee making shit up for a party of self-interested and sometimes in conflict players is the heart of actual play, and anyone who thinks otherwise is historically illiterate and probably too autistic to function.
nope RAW is god bitch
>>97015455A video game may be more your speed.
>>97015447Thanks for your input grandpa.
>>97016707mad :)
>>97016394I've been here since the beginning.
>>97017399That's not something to be proud of kek
>>97016536Correcting a ruling is not rules lawyering, trying to twist rules for your advantage is.>okay this halfling bandit moves 30 feet and..>ackshually halflings have move speed of 25 feet, so unless he has bonuses he can't do that>STOP RULES LAWYERING RRREEEEJust take the L and admit you were wrong, everyone remembers something wrong sometimes.
>>97016609Nta but it honestly didn't occur to me either that someone could be seething over AI in 4chan of all places. That's a redditor mindset. I can't imagine a 4channer giving a flying fuck about some artfag's intellectual property rights.
>>97016700Yes, please tell me how my 30 years something of ttrpg experience is wrong. How old were you again and when did you start playing? You thinking of it as history tells me you weren't there, for me it's memories. Rose tinted glasses, perhaps.
>>97017444you think it has anything to do with rights? lol
>>97017482No problem. Your experience is wrong. Hope this helps, bitch.
>>97017493It usually has very little to do with what the art looks like, correct.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
>>97017510Yeah we've all seen the shit art that gets dumped with zero discussion in the running character art threads. I don't get how people act like they've got a leg to stand on compared to the AI sloppa
lol cope
>>97017510It has everything to do with how fucking shitty the generations look
>>97017556OP's pic, maybe.
>>97015143>>97015328Oh, it's this faggot again. Seething about RPG players despite having never fucking played anything.
>>97017482Your 30 years of TTRPG experience is wrong. Your brain is failing and your memories are being viewed through rose tinted glasses so thick that you can only discern vague shapes and forms.
>>97017582>kids these days think 46 is when you start having dementia
>>97017493Still a profoundly reddit coded mindset.
You don't even know what their position is LOL
>>97017612I am entirely unbothered by reddit following 4chan's example in hating slopfags.
>>97017615you're a massive sperg that can't actually articulate it thoughbeit
>>97017629>thinks /tg/ is the standardoh sweet summer child
LOL
>sperg stops the game to throw a tantrum over rules minutia that barely altered an action's expected outcome
>>97015514You for got the new one>Grok, is this true?
>>97017682>The minutia is my character dying or not
>intellectual dishonesty>strawmen>sperging about offtopic like AI generated pictureThis thread is a prime example of how far /tg/ has fallen and OP bait post isn't the worst of it.
>>97015143Proper etiquette is to just rolling the DM's ruling during and discuss rules disputes after as to not slow down the game.
>>97015447basedI'm 32 and sameAnd I play Mathfinder lmao
>>97017904Some DMs are beyond help, they see rules as suggestions at best and as a hindrance at worst. They are the ones that should write a book or join some improv theater group as they have little interest for the game part.
>>97017996Yeah, but if they are beyond fixing then you just finish out the session and decline to come back for the next.Unless real shit is going down its just good manners to wait until the social gathering is over.
>>97015143because you're annoying them obviously? are you retarded?
>>97015328in wargames the rules matter though
>>97015447>I'm pushing 50Fuck off, shambling mummy.
>>97018014Nah, if someone lacks the competence to sit on the GM seat, I will point that out. In a polite tone, of course. I'm not one to cuck out when I see a bullshitter, doubly so if they cultivate a facade of knowing what they're doing. Triply so if there's new-ish players on the table, to stop the storyshitter* corruption in the bud.*I use the buzzword to represent this brand of GMs that are loosely directing an improv play with practically zero rules framework, not someone having any plot in their games as the ironic shitposters do
Oh he's trolling. Don't bother replying lol
>>97015143Yeah, because the GM knows what the rules are and is choosing to ignore them and substitute them with a ruling, as Gygax intended.
>>97018508The issue there is that if your the aggressor, your the one making a scene and so unless you have vastly more charisma that said GM and/or the back of other players your going to come off as an asshole and likely push said new players into the worldview of the GM, especially if they came to the game for the exact storyshitting* your pushing against.Those kinds of problem can only be fixed on an Institutional trickling down to culture over years level so you gotta pick your battles and most just are not worth it.
>>97018577I'm afraid that institutional trickling down to culture over years level is long lost. And you are correct in that many young players these days might very well seek that streamlined dumbed down mother may I style of playground play. And you're right in picking my battles too, maybe I should just focus on showing my own kids the ropes. Which I've done, I'm running an AD&D dark sun campaign for them right now, my son is playing a mul gladiator and my daughter made thri-kreen psionicist. They're hired by a slave trader to guard his caravan and be his entourage in general, this way I can easily prod them along and have sort of a quest giver NPC at hand and a moving headquarters to tour them on the setting.
>>97015328One can only wish this was true.
>>97015865Generally I agree, but >>97015865>he doesn't learn new rules systemsI wouldn't play with such a person.
>>97018734That's cool anon, I'm glad you get to do that.
>>97015447They hated Methuselah because he told them the truth.
>>97018577you're
>>97018734mother may I is better
>>97018300They matter in ttrpgs as well, why else would you have a referee?
>>97016707>rules is video gamesNormgroid cattle should be shot
>>97015328me, on the bottom right.
Anyone have any good stories of PCs shitting they pants at a table lolHappened to me in a traveler 2300 one shot
>>97015143Looks like me except I got blue eyes, more hair, and gray streaks on the temples.You'll have them too, one day.
>>97021719Nigger.
>>97017482You sound like a fat retarded boomer who thinks that time spent in the hobby = valuable opinions on the hobby.
>>97017482Shut up unc
>>97021849do you mean players
>>97015143>Pic AIslop of "fat smug nerd".it's funny because it feels like that's you
New poster here. I don't think many of you grasp just how repugnant a "fat, smug nerd" really is, both in appearance, and in demeanor, and especially how he represents a deevolution of humanity in the modern era; a product of processed junk food, endless media, a sedentary lifestyle made possible by post-war industrialization, the Information Age, and a raging sense of entitlement brought about by years upon years of receiving reinforcement for his life decisions instead of shame. Men like this need to be broken; their wills shattered and their lives upended by greater powers than they - to remind them that they owe something to the men who came before them who made their sloth possible. But it doesn't. They just bloviate and shake their chins, and exude their odors. And those games that they defend the rules of? They're many editions evolved from the hard, gritty, fun versions their original authors intended. No, they are the pale, blubbery descendants, evolved by dozens of committees of mediocre, craven head-nodders who believe that "choice" is a feature, and "fun for everyone" is somehow a virtue. So when Josh Blubberchins starts arguing with the DM about some rule, he is defending his tortle barbarian warlock with all the fervor of a man who is being denied his Big Mac meal at the drive-through. What has actually happened is every classic game has become a menu of self-entitled bullshit, and the DM has, for one brief moment, denied them their Happy Meal feat combo or something, and their anime fantasy isn't coming to life at the table.
Your copypasta is neither interesting nor entertaining. Revise and re-submit. Do not argue.
>>97015143>fake story>nogames>aislopI rate 0/8, not even a bait.Fuck off.
>>97016618Go be a subliterate pajeet somewhere else.
>>97024034Cope. You got the rules wrong. Take the L and accept the correction.
>>97017434Your character gets the level of exhaustion.
>>97015143Wow, look at it! Another no games thread with a slop. Of course, it is some abstract rule X in question in the totally real story. Fucking puckee...
>>97024034Thank you for writing something actually meaningful. Do you think that it's possible for newer TTRPGs to return to a less enabling state and be successful, or is the saturation of the market by large corporations that can just throw resources at marketing too much of a disincentive? I haven't been so fortunate as to play any more recent games, but I've been looking to expand my horizons because a member of my group is moving away.
97015143This kind of shit would often be better discussed after the game, mostly because it is more important for the show to go on.> in the rare occurence where the DM mistake Power Word, Kill for Wail of the Banshee, it may be reasonable to ask him for confirmation
>>97025400Shadowdark, and similar indie rpgs are trying to recapture those early days of brutal RPGs, and have been widely successful. Mork Borg and DCC are also popular. None of these games comes with the sense of entitlement present in 5e.
>>97025165That OP pic is way too flattering to the true appearance of a FatSmugNerd. It doesn't capture the desperation, the dirty eyeglasses, the autistic stare, the social confusion, the chins, the questionable patches and pins on his bookbag, the bouts of uncontrolled rage. No, the FatSmugNerd is a product of our world. He belongs in World of Darkness or Unknown Armies, where he can be lovingly illustrated by an artist who understands what creatures our world has produced.
>>97027497>None of these games comes with the sense of entitlement present in 5e.Is there a single other game that does?
>>97015143>point out what the rules actually say>DMpage 6 of the phb describes the how to play as:>How to play>1. The DM describes the environment. [...]>2. The players describe what they want to do. [...]>3. The DM narrates the results of the adventurers' actions. [...]>Often the action of an adventure takes place in the imagination of the players and DMThe rules state thatt the DM's job is to make shit up, tell you, hear your input and make more shit up. You clearly haven't read them.
>>97025400Don't reply to yourself.
