>leader of an organization is individually stronger and more skilled than all of his underlingsWhy is this such a common trope in TTRPGs? It is literally never the case in real life.
>>97056868>in ttrpgsYou obviously ment d&d and adjacent, like pathfinder, because that's not the case for the entirety of ttrpgs out there. That said it's because in d&dish games levels also (used to) express standing other than pure raw power scaling.
>>97056868>AC 41I assume his mundane clothes are absolutely magical beyond comprehension
>prison warden that can kill ancient dragons and greater demonsWhat's he the warden of, Hell?
>>97056868>it is literally never the case in real life.Pharaoh killed 8000 ennemies in battle while his troops were cheering, according to the Pharaoh's scribes.Yudishtir killed 700 men in battle while leading his troops to victory, according to the Mahabharata.King Arthur was also quite skilled.So yes, in real life, individuals are squishy and no warden can be stronger than 20 prisonners, but Pathfinder is about playing in a DnD world. Personnally i prefer the Warden to be a low level man with something to keep people in check (for example he could've raised a Monster who treats him like his mum).
>>97056868Play other systems. Problem solved.
>that number bloatD&D editions past B/X were a mistake
>>97056868>It is literally never the case in real life.Yeah, it's a game. Not real life. The leader is stronger so that once the players get to him, there's a challenging fight, because ttrpgs are typically combat focused games.
>>97056916>Pharaoh killed 8000 ennemies in battle while his troops were cheering, according to the Pharaoh's scribesMy mate paul did this
>>97056916>Pharaoh killed 8000 ennemies in battle while his troops were cheering, according to the Pharaoh's scribes.Those fellas also wrote that he used his psychic powers to invade his enemy's dreams.
>>97056983>He doesn't know
>>97056868It's also common in fiction in general, both for bad guys and for good guys, and not just in modern fiction. Gilgamesh isn't a wimp hiding behind the walls and warriors of Uruk, kings and nobles are the only ones doing real shit in the Iliad, Beowulf kicks more ass than his men, Darth Vader is more dangerous than stormtroopers. It's not just an RPG thing, and it's a thing because it's often cooler than the alternative.
Because it's a common trope in fiction in general. Organization leaders are usually important for plot (also a trope) and so standoffs against them have to be more memorable.Fantasy is often an escape from reality so people choose to escape to worlds where people in charge are actually competent.>>97056887>>97056916I assume OP isn't talking about published stat blocks only, but enemies GMs come up in general too. It's a common system agnostic trait, some just reinforce them with published statblocks in modules.>>97056916King Arthur and Pharaohs are reasonable comparisions, but Yudhistir was far from the best in his army. There were literally multiple dozen in his army that outperform him on the battlefield. He was the leader of the faction, Dhrishtadyumna was the general, and even he was outmatched by warriors like Arjuna, Bhima, Abhimanyu and Ghatotkacha from his own army.
>>97056868>Apothecary Pavel...
>>97056887In Shadowrun CEOs are literally dragons.
>>9705688740k is d&d adjacent?
>>97056868Because it makes for a more satisfying story.
>>97056868I wonder if you can figure out what might be the difference between games and real life.
>>97056895Nope. His +3 greater striking speed handwraps of mighty blows are the only notable equipment he has.
>>97056983And William Wallace kills men by the hundreds, using fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse.
>>97057079These days, most CEOs are probably insect spirit hosts.
>>97056868>this dumpy, average looking PRISON WARDEN is a greater threat to you than an adult dragon>nearly as physically strong as one too>his big gimmick is that he can punch someone fairly hard and knock them downI feel like there's some way to square this in a world where there's adventurers walking around with enough power to fight and kill massive legendary monsters, but this is just so fucking lame. You need a guy strong enough to be able to keep dangerous, powerful individuals imprisoned and they made a guy who just punches and shoves people around.
>>97056868>It is literally never the case in real life.What? Are you implying that Churchill and Eisenhower DIDN'T lead the troops from the front on D-Day and didnt fight toe to toe with Hitler on the Normandy beaches?! are you suggestingthey just let a few hundred thousand zero and first level chaff do all the fighting instead? That seems a bit far fetched.
>>97057073>I'm CN
>>97056906While you were stealing from food stalls, he was studying fitness.While you were picking pockets, he was mastering his parries.While you wasted your time planning muggings in pursuit of petty cash, he finished his Criminal Justice degree.And now when you're sentenced, and the prison is your new home, you have the audacity to come to the WARDEN for a parole hearing?
>>97056906Small spoiler but kind of, one of his prisoner is a dragon, most prisoners are hidden there for political reasons, the prison itself is magically sealed by powerful spells. Yet the only reason he's so strong is because the adventurers are 16+ in that AP. It is kind of silly, having Popeye the Sailor watching over some prison.
>>97057244Everyone knows Truman was at least as strong as an atom bomb
>>97057410Dndlikes trying to be realistic has always been an exercise in absurdity. They'd probably raise fewer eyebrows if he had some crazy ornate armour, and a big magic sword. This guy is clearly a part time gamer, and I find him being a warden harder to believe, than some roided up gnoll with a fiery chainwhip somehow wrote shift orders.
>>97057425Lies. The entire Manhattan project was a fraud. They just airdropped Macarthur on Japan twice, and he punched the ground so hard it incinerated Hiroshima and Nagasaski.
>>97057448The Gnoll would make more sense.>"you could rule a kingdom instead of whiping prisoners!">"me like my chainwhip, simple as"
>>97056980This is paul btw
>>97057468Your ideas are intriguing, but how do you explain the radiation?
>>97056931no i will not buy your zine
>>97057479>Be gnoll>Get cool whip>Told to guard prisoners>Own kingdom of slaves that do what I want>I am king, they call kings "warden">I make slaves dance for me and carry heavy things>I get to eat the ones that don't do as I say>Love to be gnoll!!!
>>97056868it's common in fiction in general, not ttrpgs in particular
>>97056868He looks like Jontron.
>>97057634He worked up a sweat, it was that rancid.Unrelated to his power level, he just had a bad diet (American) and stank that bad.
>>97056868Meritocracy is the biggest fantasy there is.
>>97057158
>>97057244>Are you implying that Churchill and Eisenhower DIDN'T lead the troops from the front on D-Day and didnt fight toe to toe with Hitler on the Normandy beaches?!I read "Hitler" as "Hillary" and some quite funny images popped up in my head.
>>97057097It's a few steps, and 40 years, removed but yes. 40k is Warhammer Fantasy in Space, and Warhammer Fantasy's setting originated as an AD&D1E setting.
>>97057244world war 1 and 2 very much still had “lead from the front” as a principal for NCOs and even captains were out and fighting. Yeah they weren’t superman and they still died but the ones that survived were still more competent than the average grunt cause they had to be.
>>97058656based propaganda believer
>>97056868As lame as Pathfinder 2e and its adventures are, that is literally the basis on basically all heroic fantasy.
>>97058697The organization of 1 competent man leading 10 men of unproven competency to increase their effectiveness, you can conclude that the one man is generally more competent than the men he’s leading.
>>97056868Because you tend to face the leader in the finale and it's much more climactic if it culminates in the hardest fight so far. The leader being a wimp only works in certain contexts and is just as much of a trope.
>>97056868Kung Fu movies like to do this too.The leaders of the gangs are always the strongest guy with the most ridiculous training and sometimes superpowers. Generals of armies are always the highest level mostest powerful guy that no amount of mooks are capable of stopping. But I think video games (built on the old kung fu method of general is more powerful than any minion) has inspired the concept of the leader of any group is a final boss type of character.
>>97058824gullible
>>97058970My crane fist lets me cook the books WHILE fighting the IRS.
>>97058970All the accounting chops on the planet mean shit once hands start flying.
>>97056868>in TTRPGsIt's prominent in much of fiction as well. It stems from the classic trope of the heroes fighting a large group of weak foes before facing off against a stronger, singular foe at the end.
>>97056931That's PF2e thoughbeit.
>>97056868It's common in a lot of fiction because people like the idea of power escalating to the key antagonist's level. It's also not entirely irrelevant to real world history, though perhaps exaggerated. Consider the era of knighthood in early Britain, for example. Your average foot soldier has nothing, and is barely able to wield a weapon. Above them are people with limited wealth, and better access to weapons, armor, and opportunities and purpose to learn to be good at using them. Above them are nobles who coordinate them, who are themselves wealthy enough to have quality equipment, access to the best tutelage possible, and the expectation that they will have to fight on the fields for glory and success as well. To some extent, it is not going to be surprising that the higher you are on the societal totem pole, the more likely it is that the floor of your capability is higher.
>>97059077Being wealthy makes you less likely to learn useful skills, not more.
>>97059084Friend, we are talking historic examples. In the given example specifically, we are talking about a land that is not fully consolidated, and is actively fighting off invaders while the bosses clash with each other for control of the lands themselves.The very concept of a lord is that they are the protector. It's like a protection racket where the people with the most ability to kill the people who want to kill you are the ones who get to have the most stuff.
>>97057708damn, those japanese wouldn't have died of flesh peeling, organ melting and blood loss if he just took a bath before punching
>>97059097Except everyone with half ab rain knows it was never actually true. The people at the top are all retarded lazy slobs.
>>97059123If you knew half a thing about historic feudalism, or even just the origin of the word "lord" then you'd know you're talking out of your ass. It starts with who's got the capability to protect the food stores for the collective, and those people become the upper class by virtue of having the violence to acquire and keep things.
>>97059180They don't conduct the violence themselves, they get other people to do it for them, retard. People cling to those high positions specifically so they won't have to do shit themselves.
>>97059014You’re not as smart as you think you are.
>everyone at the top was always totally lazy and incompetent, always! What, other cultures? Other eras? No, everything works exactly like the nation I was borh in at the exact time I am alive, things were never different and will never be different no matter how much time has passed or will pass!So why do the non-lazy and non-incompetent keep following them? How does one guy go on to become leader of a tribe, then of a coalition of tribes, then of a nation, then of an empire?
>>97059455>So why do the non-lazy and non-incompetent keep following them?for the same reasons you do now
>You have fought your way past armies, skilled bodyguards and second in command who almost killed you>Now you must face the real foe!>Level 3 Commoner with some social skills
>>97059084Uhhhh yeah totally>plays video games>eats take out>buys soda with EBT>watches netflix>""""""learns"""""" by watching youtube tutorials
>>97059182Hey Einstein, in an earlier civilizations, literally being able to fight people and take what they had was a real thing. It doesn't resemble modern day "they're do-nothings who inherited it" all that much, because it was before there was so much accumulated shit that could be inherited. And it also doesn't resemble "they don't have to get their hands dirty," because getting their hands dirty is how the opportunity for gathering that wealth was established.
>>97059770You fell hook line and sinker for the oldest propaganda ever.
>>97059782Do you have an actual argument or are you just going to reply to everyone in the thread with the same line about propaganda?
>>97059790He's mad because he's poor and his boss sees him as less than human which comes off as "incompetence"
>>97059790The argument is that in the information age we can effortlessly observe the trends present in every single power structure in the entire fucking world, and there is no meritocracy and obviously never has been no matter how far back in time you go or how shitty the living conditions of a given place are.Not even in the poorest, shittiest countries with the harshest living conditions like you keep harping on about does competence result in power or leadership. It's all propaganda to keep cattle like you full of hope and working hard.
>>97059782Propaganda doesn't exclude the fact that rewarding people was the most effective way to reward soldiers: "First on the wall" used to be a thing in the Roman Empire. The chinese too had rules to elevate socially their most competent soldiers, for example the man who killed a General. It supposedly resulted in a meritocracy.Also, it isn't hard to believe the blueblood propaganda when the nobility is one head taller than the average peasant, has a fair skin, and is bred to produce fighters. A current example are the generals in North Korea: they have tens of medals on them for wars fought by their faters or grand-fathers (you can look it up), they inherit the deeds of their ancestors.
>we can effortlessly observe the trends present in every single power structure in the entire fucking world silly goyim and it's always been like this there's nothing you can do to change this.who fell for propaganda again?
>>97059862In the poorest, shittiest countries, warlords kill everyone who oppose their rise to power. In earlier eras where soviet surplus didn't fall from the sky like rain, the warlords were the guys who could fight, because otherwise they'd be killed by other warlords.
>>97060015There was no era where warlords fought personally.
>>97056868Because most RPGs follow the same general pattern to adversaries. Mook, Mini-boss/LT, Boss/Captain, Final Boss. Level based games make the various bad guys higher level based on where they are in the food chain. Also it is done to scale challenges properly. Now by asking this question in comparison to real life, you caused a cat-girl somewhere to die. RPGs are simulations that cannot cover all variables in real life. You are incorrect that it isn't the case in real life. Let's take a military unit for example. The squad have all finished basic training they have anywhere from 1 to 5 years in service (yes some may have more) it takes a minimum of 2 years to make corporal and 3 years to make Sergeant. The reality is (oops there goes another cat-girl) it usually takes longer. The Sgt isn't physically any stronger than the troopers in his squad but he is generally more skilled, at least in military matters.
>>97059770do you have zero social experience?People don't exploit others because they can beat them up, people use social pressure and amnipulation to make someone stronger do shit. Do you think shaming and ostazising were made up in the 70's or something?
>>97060029There are many accounts of warlords dying on battlefields which are not their own front yards.
>>97060205Because they were neither good warriors nor smart enough to realize that about themselves.
>>97056868>In ttrpgsBecause they're largely based on overcoming challenges, becoming stronger and then overcoming slightly stronger challenges in a positive feedback loop that progresses through a narrative. Doesn't work if the tension doesn't increase. >irlGo fight your supervisor tomorrow and report back. Everyone itt should do this.
>>97060193>shaming and ostazisingdon't work when the guy you are trying to shame has proven himself a very competent warrior, have other competent men that follow him out of respect and of his capability for effective violence and therefore can simply force his waythe methods you trying to appeal to only function on stable, civilized societies
>>97060451>do you have zero social experience?well that answers that question lol
>>97056887Most media run on the logic that Authority equals Ass kicking. It is far from being a D&D specific thing.
>>97060463social experience wont stop a roaming warlord from killing you and taking over your place
>>97060193Social pressure is only as valuable as how valued the opinion of the person doing the pressuring is. Saying that you can just out-moral someone that has a bigger gun than you and therefore you win is Reddit retard logic.
>>97060510yup that's why in nuclear countries only the best bomber pilot gets to run for president
>>97056895My hatred for>Mundane character or beast>Retarded amounts of AC without high dexcannot be measured. Hate when RPGs do this and the guy doesn't look like a fruity peacock ala a FF villain
>>97059084Don't mistake "the wealthy" for "the rich". The former coast on generational wealth doing nothing, the latter were investing their money in themselves and their progeny for high-value skills/education to eventually become "the wealthy".Every single power structure in existence initially relied on individuals being better/working harder/networking more to form and it's only after consecutive successes do you have worthless layabouts wiping their asses with bills.
>>97060560That's just wishful thinking on your part.
>>97056868because it's just a perfect opportunity to put the plot on hold to elaborate on a character without feeling like the whole thing's losing momentum, same as why in all those disney films you watched as a kid there's a musical number for the lead and one for the villain.
>>97060568No, that's a casual observation of IRL history, which you would understand if you weren't just looking for excuses to never try at anything and live exactly the same vapid purposeless existence as "the wealthy" except with lower QoL.
>>97060524we are not talking about stable, civilized, modern democracies, we are talking about pre-modern, unstable regions where historically the ruling class and the warrior class were one in the same
>>97060594Your views don't actually line up with any part of recorded history though.
>>97060600we are not talking about anything because the ork-like society you're talking about has never existed
guys pack it up. anon has proven to us great generals, officers, and even middle management is a myth to keep the hard working man in the dirt. The USA, Germany, Russia, and every other civilization on earth wasted their time and money with force organization, officer training, and grand strategy. Leadership is a meme and unguided soldiers running around shooting each other would’ve worked just as well.
>>97056868Not true.
>>97060636why is lenin burning his dick off
>>97060610do you think the germanic warlords established themselves all over western europe during and right after the fall of the roman empire by playing social games ? or that the mongols took over half of the world under Genghis Kan (who we have records from his enemies about him leading men in battle and sieges) by using playing politics ?
>>97060635I honestly have to wonder how he thinks civilization progressed or even kept itself going throughout the ages, is he one of those retards that think it just happens?
>>97060659yes, they diddid you really think they took charge by dueling everyone?
>>97060659>>97060635Genghis was an SSS+ tier master administrator though, guy had a remarkable eye for talent and administration
>>97060661Name 10 monarchs that have personally invented technologies.
>>97060706Why’s it gotta be a monarch?Why’s he gotta invent something when his job is to be a political and military figurehead?If he’s merely good at his job’s required skillset does that make him incompetent?
>>97060606Proof?
>>97060826Well since you're ascribing the entire progression of society to the merits of the people in charge of it, surely you can come up with tangible examples of the most uniquely powerful individuals actually doing so?>If he’s merely good at his job’s required skillset does that make him incompetent?The only skill a monarch exhibits is being born.
>>97060900>The only skill a monarch exhibits is being born.historically monarchs that had no skill but their birth usually ended up either as puppets of some court figure with actual skills or deposed by some fed up general
>>97060963except for all the ones that didn't get deposed but still didn't do anything during their reign
Just stop replying to the poorfag he will never agree with you
>>97060972they don't going out of their way to pull some grand deed doesn't mean they had no skills and I doubt you would consider maintaining an stable administration as "something"also note that getting depose was only one of the two usual end results, the other being getting turned into a puppet of come court figure with actual skill
>>97061001>they don't going out of their way to pull some grand deed doesn't mean they had no skillshaving all that power and not achieving shit with it does speak of total incompetence>I doubt you would consider maintaining an stable administration as "something"holding on to shit you already have does not require any skills, not when you ostensibly have the most shit in your region and thousands of people who will protect it for you on your behalf
>>97056887Retard
>>97060636It's called manscaping.
>>97058970>Generals of armies are always the highest level mostest powerful guy that no amount of mooks are capable of stopping.This kind of has a case of truth in media. In many Chinese dynasties part of the promotion test for officers involved proper technique demonstration with oversized weighted weapons. You needed to prove that you were physically fit enough to fight at a massive handicap.
>>97056868For me, it's the retarded bell chinos. Out of any pants youncould wear(or not wear), and you had to choose the one ones most likely to get stepped on by yourself and make you trip, ESPECIALLY with thwt ultralow cut
>>97060670He was the best of both worlds, really. A warlord in both the "can take leadership on the battlefield" and in the "I know how to conduct war with ruthless effectiveness" type. He was sharp about how to lead the operations, and even in politically strong-arming people.
>>97060193Some people really do exploit others because they have access to means of forcing them. It would be silly to suggest otherwise.When the guy and his buddies who are really good at fighting say "give us a bigger cut of what the community produces, and we'll make sure to kill any raiders that want to take your lives/property/food/etc," that's the basis that feudalism is built on. The strong get more resources because they are needed, and they are fully aware of the opportunity that is for them. What's also where mercenaries come from; they aren't beholden to a society that makes them strong, they are selling their ability to deal violence.It would also be silly to suggest that threats of ostracizing these people is useful, since you need them to protect you, but they could fuck off and go fight for someone else.So, those lords, the "loaf wards," the "bread keepers," who got so much by protecting everyone else's food they need to survive, accumulate so much stuff for having done so that they have more resource-based influence over everyone else too. The floor is that the farmers need to keep farming so everyone can eat, but the upper class is all warriors and people who descended from warriors, and they are still keeping themselves battle-ready in case they have to do the one thing they're supposed to do. And then they start building things like tradition, and figuring out training, and some of the ones who gained the opportunity to become educated start writing manuals.As long as they remain in a land that is actively in need of defense, or is actively warring otherwise, they more or less remain that way. It's not impossible for there to also be a rich merchant class in structures like these, but they are influencers, not leaders. Notably, if you look at how knights and lords were in the British Isles, they were war leaders on the battlefield, and also glory-seekers for combat. Beating important people is money and reputation.
>>97057410World of Warcraft ass rules.
>>97056895>>97060549PF2e adds your level to all DCs and checks you're trained or better in. In a Proficiency Without Level game (optional rule) he'd have 22, which is still really high but >+5 dex>+3 armor rune equiv.>Expert in unarmored defense (+4)Gets you there starting from 10 base AC. Nothing unbelievable for a level 19 dude in charge of a magic prison.
>>97060451>have other competent men that follow him out of respect Respect is a social construct. A samurai that lost his lord was the lowest scum in society, and the lord was some magistrate born into the position.>and of his capability for effective violence and therefore can simply force his wayyou can kill people in their sleep, and even if they survive after 5-10 attempts they're gonna lose all composture.Violene isn't omnipotent.
>>97060659>established themselves all over western europe during and right after the fall of the roman empire by playing social gamesYes.They made up moral causes, played along with the romans when it worked, betrayed when that worked better. The capacity to convince people to do what you say is a separate thing from the capacity to murder people. They might meet, they might not, usually they don't.
>>97060655It's a bidet you uncultured swine
>>97056868>literally neverAlexander would disagree
>>97060659It was both politics and war kind of to be fair.
>>97056916>Pharaoh killed 8000 ennemies in battle while his troops were cheering, according to the Pharaoh's scribes. Meanwhile the Hittites be like>we had a minor 20 v 20 skirmish against the Egyptians and lost three guys, one of whom tripped because he was drunk
>>97056868>high level enemy is just a guy who beats you upUnironically love shit like this. Granted i run a comedy campaign, but still.
>>97056868Most Euro nobility farmed XP through hunting like cray. Like Franz Ferdinand killed at least 274 000 animals during his life, which should've netted him enough XP to tank a bullet or two under D&D rules.
>>97062986He was skilled, no doubt, but those numbers are #1, somewhat inflated, and #2, most likely he employed many hunters to capture and herd animals in a closed space where he could shoot and hunt them from a cozy point, maybe even claiming others' hunt as his own.
Welcome Back, Kiryu Kazuma
>>97063031>most likely he employed many hunters to capture and herd animals in a closed space where he could shoot and hunt them from a cozy point.This reminds me of the story about Theodore Roosevelt and the bear, Im a big proponent of hunting despite being too lazy to have ever done much of it. But its hard to contemplate how turn of the century upper class hunting had any appeal outside sadism.
>>97063109Hunting is fine as a sport in moderation but killing 100k+ for trophy hunting is not endorsable by any margin.Not to mention that this guy was the trigger for WW1, killing millions, which in turn caused WW2 too. Insane K/D ratio.
>>97059595Kinda happened in my old campaign. While preparing a city for a coming siege, the party found evidence of a traitor working with the enemy. They've eventually discovered the traitors prepare a demon summoning inside a warehouse. The rogue, pretending to be an emissary from the enemy forces (her favorite tactic) managed to talk her way to the leader of the traitor to find out all she could before pulling a pistol and shooting him point-blank for the highest individual damage roll (sneak attack + crit) in the entire campaign.He was a greedy (((merchant))) who funded the whole thing, but had no combat skills and like 10 hp.
>>97056887There needs to be a /D&Dseethe/ general, so the more retarded and irrational of you can get it out of your system and stop shitting up other threads.
>>97056868>It is literally never the case in real life.>Post a leader of violent thug gang
>>97063646You may say i'm wrong but you cannot say that in my post i'm berating d&d or whatever. I didn't write "ah, look how stupid d&d is for doing this bullshit that op says", i simply stated that levels in d&d indicate social standing other than exclusively being a power scaling measurement. Fucking projecting retard.
>>97056916>according to the Pharaoh's scribesKim Jong Il got 11 holes in one on his first game of golf according to NK state media
>>97063880Well there are 2 ways to look at it.Irl it's propaganda, and he isn't actually a surgeon, a competent jet fighter, poetry writer and skilled strategist.In ttrpg however, him being a 19th level dictator with skills at +33 is reasonable. Can't have your King be inferior to the local Warden.
>>97062121PWL is the best way to play
>>97063653>>Post a leader of violent thug gangall of those guys are fat and/or short in real life
>>97057381That guy has higher AC than a block steel does. I don't believe that even Dragonfire could melt him...
>>97061310I thought that had more to do with available education and training. Generals being wealthy nobles had the capacity to gain an education from expensive trainers and were well trained in things from tactics to armed and unarmed combat. And under the rules of Kung Fu the more training one has, the more superhumanly powerful they were. So a general had years of expert training and therefore could not be defeated by poorer rank and file troops who had less to no real training.
>>97059084The only way to actually get some form of martial training and education at all was to pay for it. And peasants really had no spare money to afford a lesson from any master. Anyone knowing how to expertly swing a sword learned that due to coming from some wealthy family that could afford to hire trainers. The rapier was genuinely a rich man's weapon, same for the jian in China. It was a difficult to learn to use thing that only rich people could afford to learn how to use.
>>97065433>The only way to actually get some form of martial training and education at all was to pay for it.No? Just sign up to be a soldier if you wanted to fight, join a monastery if you wanted to learn how to read, or become an apprentice if you wanted to make stuff.>Anyone knowing how to expertly swing a sword learned that due to coming from some wealthy family that could afford to hire trainers.Sword instructors were the Steven Seagalls of their era. Just look at the retarded shit they put in their manuals.
>ITT>people so stuck on how 3.5 D&D modeled characters that anything different literally melts their fragile brains
>>97065753Do you think they really trained soldiers back then? The answer is that they didn't all that much. It was very "here is your equipment, and this is how you use it in formation when the nobleman in charge of you tells you to. Good luck out there, extra body."The nobles were leagues above the regular soldiers in both ability and resources, since they could afford good equipment, training, and horses. In ye olden days, a knight is a man at least rich enough to have armor that isn't shit, weapons that aren't shit, the training to fight using both, and a horse he knows how to ride in combat. These are things that rank and file soldiers could neither afford, nor have the opportunity to acquire as skills. But they're things that the already richer lords and their vassals could use to their advantage.
>>97056868ngl, I clicked on this in the catalog thinking this was a Tintin thread and someone had done a mockup statblock for Captain Haddock.
>>97065941>Do you think they really trained soldiers back then? The answer is that they didn't all that much.I'd wager that the training ordinary soldiers did receive was a lot more than what the nobles did. Just the marching a soldier would have to do would put them above a nobleman's level of fitness by default since they just rode horses everywhere.>The nobles were leagues above the regular soldiers in both ability Except as I keep telling you that's just wishful thinking.>Surely they didn't just sit on their wealth fucking around all day! They must have used those resources to improve themselves!is what you really want to believe because the alternative is really depressing.
>>97065753About 3 weeks of training and marching vs a couple years of private training from an instructor. Which was a standard thing for English and French higher classes. Fencing instruction was a rich man's past time for almost everyone for centuries.
>>97065941>Do you think they really trained soldiers back then?varies wildly depending on reigon and era, roman soldiers were well trained as were Grecian hoplites (2 easy exaples) wheras during the peasants crusade they were given nothing
>>97066006and you would be wrong.Join the Army receive actual training thing was not something that happened in the feudal era, and not necessarily a thing until Cromwel's time. The professional army stopped being a thing between the fall of Rome and the mid 1500s. Before that they handed a weapon to a called up peasant and told them to go march. The only people who were actually educated in it were the upper classes who's job it was to be the fighting man. Knights and commanders.Knights might have spend some effort and money on training up their individual retinues, but that's if they even could afford it and up to their digression on who they were going to hire and keep in the,m. Which was typically never more than about a dozen or so people at best. Medieval armies were whatever fighting age and capable peasants a count had on his lands.
>>97056868>AC 41>450 hit pointsMan I hate DND.
>>97063540Now imagine her surprise if the greedy merchant had 450 hp and a greater striking speed dagger+3 of mighty morphin power ranger.
>>97066012>>97066040Believing that nobles had access to secret sword techniques that turned them into super warriors is hilarious.They rode horses, wore the best armor available, and had huge entourages. Of course poorfags couldn't do shit, skills never even entered the equation. So logically speaking, there was zero incentive to actually develop said skills.
>>97066162Why would he, though?I swear, you people are too stupid to look at the entire situation, or that different games have different assumptions about the characters in it.Pure nogames faggotry.
>>97056868>Perception +37He can see microbes in total darkness>Legal Lore +30He knows any law the instant it is passed>HP 450He can fall from any height, hitting solid stone head first at terminal velocity, and it CANNOT kill him>Speed 30 feetHe can sprint at 6 mph
>>97066192Who wins, the guy in armor on a horse or the guy in armor on a horse who also knows how to use his weapons and trains regularly?
>>97056868Is there a writeup for Tintin as well?
>>97066292the guy who has 12 buddies backing him up
>>97059595The difficulty of defeating a boss is the fact that he uses other people as protection
>>97059595Every action movie is formatted like this
>>97056887Have you ever heard of the experiment with the monkeys and the trapped banana?Scientists put monkeys into a large cage and hung a banana from a rope. Whenever a monkey got close to the banana, a loud alarm would ring and all the monkeys were sprayed with cold water. They quickly learned not to touch it.Over time the scientists changed out some of the monkeys with new ones.The newcomers immediately tried to go for the forbidden banana but the other monkeys would violently stop any attempt until the new monkeys learned their lesson. Over the course of the experiment, the entire original group was gradually swapped out with new monkeys. At the end, none of the monkeys in the cage ever felt the actual consequences of the alarm/cold water but they'd still attack new monkeys who dared to get close to the banana.
>>97066162She did kinda expected something like that (she knew he wasn't a spellcaster, as they were just preparing ritual grounds for the actual summoner who was supposed to sneak into the city just before the attack), the gunshot was to be an opener and a signal for the rest of the party to breach the warehouse while she ran.A shame, if they've captured him alive, they would've found he also delivered poisoned provisions to the city garrison before it became a problem.
>>97059084You have never learned history at the university level. You likely never passed high school history. And it shows. Kill yourself.
>>97066525bootlicker seething
>>97060706Damn there's really nothing huh?
>>97056868>he thinks he can run a prison without being able to personally box out adult dragons
That's always a problem with humanoids - they can have X levels, so who knows if the guards have 4 hp or 40? I guess that's something to accept, just like the logic in action movie - the cult leader is somehow a karate master so he can fight the hero, else the climax of the movie would be weird.
>>97066292The 500+ guys in the winning side of the battlefield. I don't give a flying fuck if they only have sticks and rocks, the more guys the side has that side wins. The end. But thanks for displaying how much of a fucking anime addicted retard you are.
>>97066525>Seething aniemfag cannot stand his hours of watching was not an actual real life history lesson
>>97066312The guy who has martial skill has 20 buddies backing him up because other warriors respect his skill and follow him because of it
>>97056868Is it all that surprising? In a fantasy world I'm sure dungeons and jails get a lot of stupidly powerful shit in them. The guards and warden need to be fucking superhuman too just to keep all that shit imprisoned. One Piece thought of this a long time ago since Admiral level inmates who can blow up islands are kept on the bottom floor and they do sometimes escape. You need guys that can handle someone who can reverse gravity or move at the speed of light potentially escaping.
>>97066771yeah and you work at mcdonalds out of respect for your manager's skill with the cash register
>>97066744>>97066744Numerous recorded instances of superior trained, commanded or equipped forces defeating numerically superior but otherwise inferior enemies disagrees with you.
>>97066782I don't work at McDonald's, and the quality of the leadership does actually influence if I want to work for them.
>>97066790>You NEVER insult my animes!! REEEEEEEEEEE!cope retard.
>>97066790>Numerousthey make up a miniscule minority of all armed conflicts, so rare that pretty much every instance of it has been recorded and glorified to no end
>>97066790War is a numbers game, that's it. The side with the most people to fill the field wins. If you were not completely fucking retarded sperg that gets all their info from games you would know that.
>>97066803I didn't say anything about anime, but your insistence that numbers are the only thing that matters and that all leaders are incompetent lazy retards undeserving of their station (who are somehow never usurped by more competent people) is a braindead take
>>97066790>Nuh uh!!!! Those 300s guys were like level 27 or some shit and no amount of lower level, poorly trained bad guys that never did any grinding could stop them!!!!Real life aint Dragonball anon, the Spartans were all killed to the last man.
>>97066807>>97066808Are you a brownoid? Literally the entire history of European colonization is Eurochads dabbing on numerically superior savages because they have superior training, tech, tactics and logistics
>>97066812Yeah except I have an education and now things. Two things you seem to lack here.
>>97066830...and the diseases they bring with them wiping out millions of people.
>>97066812Numbers are the only thing that matter. There is no recorded instance of some super high level unstoppable magic kung fu man who killed armies all by his lonesome with his super amazing +50 infinity sword. This is just outright fucking stupid that you keep trying to defend that fantasy scenario.
>>97066837And things like the 40 some other tribes guys like Cortes brought with him to massively outnumber the Aztecs. But you know, Aryan ubermech dreams as usual....
>>97066845no dude nobles were supermen who could each take on at least a dozen peasants completely naked because they TRAINED
>>97060706We jumped from "fighting" to "inventing" for some goofy reason and I'm not sure why.
>>97066853try following the reply chain
>>97066853Okay name 10 nobles that single-handedly defeated whole armies by themselves because they TRAINED HARD.
>>97066858Try being less of a retard.
>>97066864How come you're not asking for ten kings or cultural equivalents that lead from the front?
>>97066877Because you're the faggot that keeps claiming super dooper Dragonball style training will defeat any number of peasants forever and ever. Now you are deflecting by being challenged to name them. Why not shift some goal posts some more while you are at it.
>>97066853Because some retarded king starting a war for a bit of extra land didn't actually contribute anything to the progress of civilization.
>>97066751>self portrait dot jaypeggingBig off there historylet
>>97066877Because that's not a meaningful contribution or a display of skill that warrants all the extra resources and privileges they get. Not to mention that the overwhelming majority of them didn't bother to even do that much anyways.
>>97056868It all depends on the setting and situation. There are so many all or nothing midwit takes in this thread it's ridiculous. D&D 3.5 had npc classes for nobles, one that was more a politician might be lv5 at best but min maxed for social. In a Roman campaign it would be highly appropriate for Ceaser to be a high level fighter with age negatives taken into account while a Senator might be a mix of former warriors and simple npcs with a lot of charisma and/or connections.Shitty bait thread and smooth brain takes.
>>97066997>smooth brain takesthanks for contributing your own
>>97067014No value Reddit snark reply, imagine my shock
>>97066997That is not what anyone is arguing and nobody cares.
>>97066845No, but there are instances of armies routing enemies 5 times their size or more, and obviously that fantasy scenario doesn't exist because we don't live in a fantasy world. If you lived in a magical world where someone could get that personally powerful, then people like in the OP wouldn't be unreasonable
>>97066848The disease and allies like the Tlaxcalans were important strategically to beating the Aztecs and dominating the region.But read the history of Cortez' campaign, there were many battles where he had little or no native support, in hostile territory, outnumbered, and they still won great victories. There is a reason the Aztecs thought he was a god, and it's not just because he matched their myths about the feathered serpent returning as a white guy. Meeting the man did not dispel their delusions of his godhood, in fact facing him in battle just supported their belief in it.The Conquistadores were the closest thing to DND characters to ever exist.
>>97067031and each of those instances is the result of external circumstances and not every soldier being 5 times stronger than every enemy soldier
>>97066390That was a thought experiment, not an actual experiment that took place
>>97066602Usually there's some indicator of power. If they have plate armour covered in glowing runes and floating crystals are circling their heads, they're probably powerful. But the pf2e way has little, ordinary looking old ladies decapitating people by flicking them with a +5 vorpal human bane linen handkerchief
>>97066751When you post a wojak with greentext, the wojak is saying the greentext
>>97067060No fucking shit, my goalpost moving friend. But the existence of those circumstances proves that war is in fact not just a numbers game.
>>97067204no it doesn't you retard
>>97067046Weirdly the Aztecs were the closest thing to a jungle snake cult of death worshipers that the average adventurer would go after too.
>>97066192You do have to develop said skills when you're also defending the countryside from invasions and raids from offshore. As it turns out, competent battlefield commanders were kind of integral to keep everything from being swamped by Saxons both in terms of leadership and their access to being good at fighting in armor/on horseback.
>>97067237You don't have to develop any skills when you're in charge. Just tell people what to do and punish them if they don't. That's why leaders don't actually have any skills, and it becomes increasingly more exaggerated the higher up a given chain you go.
>>97067253>"I'm going to keep saying my talking point despite being given a historic example of when this happened and was useful."You can just confess you don't know anything about the matter. Or that you just want to have a pointless argument to try to tilt people. Whichever it is.
>>97067263I don't care if you're getting tilted. It's still exactly how it works.
>>97067211Yes it does. There were literally hundreds of peasant revolts throughout the history of medieval Europe. Do you know how many were successful? Not fucking many. Popular revolution didn't become feasible until gunpowder became widespread enough to be a readily available force multiplier. Before that popular revolts were routinely crushed by forces of knights, men at arms and mercs a fraction of their size. Training, discipline, quality weapons and armor and horses trump large numbers with garbage equipment, minimal training and no discipline.Now if you're gonna say "oh ho it's still numbers because we can count the number of trained soldiers and weapons and armors in their inventory, and how much money is in their coffers to pay them you're moving the goalposts again, because the original contention was a braindead take on combat that "hurr side with more guys always wins"
>>97067291peasant revolts were rare as shit you drooling retardyou need to read some actual books instead of imagining what history was like based on fiction and reddit posts
>>97067253Do you think all leaders are simply given the role suddenly for no reason? Certainly that does happen, for example with blood succession where a moron is the heir, or hos father didn't prepare him to lead. There are also instances of people being promoted to their highest level of incompetence, nepo babies, and people who got rich by being lucky and mistook it for intellect or business skill. But sometimes leaders are people who have actually done the job and now moved up or started their own gig, you know.Did you know that leadership itself is a skill? The art of identifying talents, delegating to those best able to conplete tasks, and handling reward and punishment to keep your organization running smoothly, not to mention making important decisions. The existence of incompetent leaders doesn't disprove the skill of leadership. Of course you'll just say "no, they don't, no it's not, all leaders are idiots" because you are an envy brained loser who has never lead anything or anyone but constantly complains about the actions of leaders while saying "I could do it better if I was in charge".
>>97067326>Do you think all leaders are simply given the role suddenly for no reason?There's always a plethora of reasons and competence is almost always dead last on the list.>Did you know that leadership itself is a skill? The art of identifying talents, delegating to those best able to conplete tasks, and handling reward and punishment to keep your organization running smoothly, not to mention making important decisions.All of these things are leagues easier than actually working. Which is exactly why the dregs always cling to those positions.>Of course you'll just say "no, they don't, no it's not, all leaders are idiots" because you are an envy brained loser who has never lead anything or anyone but constantly complains about the actions of leaders while saying "I could do it better if I was in charge".Your rich daddies surely could do no wrong and righteously dedicate their vast wealth towards self-improvement for the good of all. Dumb bootlicker.
>>97067253I do think a majority of Kings like to think their Knights have a pretty good idea of what the fuck they are doing to be worth awarding a land and title. More so than just having some men at arms they can call up to hang out with them on a battlefield.
>>97067291>Here's a list of things that never happened to back up my made up points!!Yeah okay retard, /a/ is that way.
>>97067350But there's nothing to actually indicate that.
>>97067291Actually overwhelming majority of revolts were some landed lord or lords rebelling against the crown. A good majority of them were put down in the UK and France, but in the Holy Roman Empire they were almost routine occurrences. Very very few consisted of peasants rebelling against their own lord, and they still generally had the backing of another feudal lord or the church who also called up some landed nobility to do the actual heavy lifting.
>>97067350Aaaaaaaand you would be both wrong and kind of stupid to assume it.
>>97067350I do think you know fuckall about history if you really do think that a noble has anime training powers.
>>97067303>>97067303Wow, you should take your own advice. First of all, the medieval period is a millennia give or take, and medieval europe is such a broad term that encompasses an entire continent with literally thousands of polities due to feudalism. Even if you characterize peasant revolts as rare, that is still enough time and space for there to be hundreds of peasant revolts to use as data points. Do you know what was even rarer than peasant revolts? Successful peasant revolts, you retard. They happened, but they were much less likely to succeed than fail, as evidenced by the paucity of historical peasant states.Peasants were constantly revolting over taxes, religious disagreements, and the like. They became more frequent during the time of the black death, for obvious reasons. The frequency of peasant revolts varies wildly depending on time period and area. But to call them rare is ignorant, there were likely far more peasant revolts than are even known because smaller uprisings that were quelled easily may not have any records. It's impossible to state a clear number of peasant revolts in Europe for this reason and if you were as educated as you claim to be you would know this.>>97067357You have no argument, retard.>>97067346Yep, spiteful mutant detected.
>>97056868People LOVE to guzzle propaganda and worship the rich and the authoritarian. There are so many stories about gigachad kings and super clever rich folk.Nobody is comfortable with the thought that those people don't actually deserve to have as much as they do, surely they must have earned it.
>>97062642Well yeah would you admit your enemy is like a wargod who's come to beat the shit out of you personally?
>>97056887OP complained about a common trope in every form of fiction and you started bitching about D&D. Sorry.
>>97056868It is the case in all non jewish societies. Getting told what to do by a retard because money is a brand new aberration to the natural order.
>>97056916>Pharaoh killed 8000 ennemies in battle while his troops were cheering, according to the Pharaoh's scribes.I love that there is an ancient "and then everyone clapped" post preserved for all time.
>>97057244In more recent news, Bin Laden personally piloted both of 9/11 planes.Feds just don't want you to know because letting him escape after the crash would make them look incompetent.
>>97056868Better nutrition, better equipment, better training.
>>97066744>I don't give a flying fuck if they only have sticks and rocks, the more guys the side has that side wins.The roman army that defeated Boddecia says hias does the english that beat the zulu despite being outnumbered hundreds to oneor when the samurai were slaughterd in the 1850's
>>97062121Why would a dude in chage of a magic prison would look like a normal dude in charge of a poor prison? why does he even need keys if it's a magic prison? why does he need a scarf and a raincoat if it's a magic prison?
>>97069001Better pizza.
>>97056868boss fight
>>97056868it makes absolutely sense in a game where you can grow in power to such a degree that the common people can't even touch you. IRL, no matter how badass you are, you can always die to a knife or a bullet. in a world where superpowerful beings exists, why wouldn't they be in charge of everything?
>>97069140In this particular case, the prison is actually made of boats stranded on an island, with a magical bad weather to ensure no one can leave. He may have good Saves but he could still catch a cold.
>>97068089Op literally had attached to his post a fucking npc from a pf2e module, it's not out of the blue referring to d&d and adjacent in this case, also reply to the correct post you fucking troglodyte.
>>97056868Why does he look like a lighthouse keeper? It doesn't scream superhuman prison warden to me
>>97067372This is a silly point when peasant revolts are distinguished from other forms of uprising in any serious source. They also weren't uncommon by any means.
>>97069351>OP calls out all TTRPGs>fag feels the need to "correct" him, saying it's only D&D and Pathfinder>"teehee guys, I'm totally not seething at D&D"kek okay whatever
>>97069469It is objectively more prominent in d&dish games, also i never berated d&d because of the adherence to this trope, learn to fucking read.
>>97069410Well his magical handwraps don't look like they should, either. That and he doesn't look like someone with STR+6 and DEX +5. That said, in the Pathfinder world (Golarion) where such absolute units exist, it makes sense to put them at highly sensitive posts, since they're way above any normal humans.
>>97069495>It is objectively more prominent in d&dish gamesit's equally prominent everywhere
>>97069546We may argue about that if you drop the mongoloid and baseless slander, you know.
>>97070162The dice tell the best story
>>97060661>>97060706I'm still waiting for my list, faggot.
>>97066744There is actually a point where the difference in advantages overcomes the difference in numbers. That is to say, the more advantages you have, the more of the opposing forces there needs to be to mitigate those advantages. But also, sometimes the matchup is just not even close enough for numbers to mean anything.If someone has a large, fire-breathing dragon to ride on, they can basically solo the whole enemy army that doesn't have the means of putting together a weapon that can so much as knock the thing out of the air, let alone pierce its hide. This is a drastic fantasy example, but the point still stands. If two men duel and one of them has armor that the other man's weapons can't pierce, and weapons of his own that will destroy the other man's meager defenses easily, it's generally pretty clear who will win that outcome. And that might still be the case for two, three, etc, fighting him at once. Now add the problem of the man also being on horseback, when the other forces don't have horses, and are not trained to be able to fight opponents who are on horseback. We know from plenty of historic examples that solid cavalry sometimes have the opportunity to just decimate foot soldiers despite being outnumbered.
>>97067046There is no good evidence that the Aztecs thought Cortez was a god. Cortez never mentions this as a thing that happened. Historians nowadays generally trend towards thinking that it's probably not a thing that actually happened. The suggestion that this is what happened comes from Sahagun's writing. He was there firsthand, but he was also a man who had his own religious agenda and who knew how using religious jargon could sway people. Given that there isn't strong enough evidence, it's becoming more common to think that he was just making up prophecy bullshit to try to get the natives to THINK that Cortez was a god.
>>97073603Yup, war is about resources,which includes bodies AND equipment.But individual skill and competence still don't really come into the equation.
>>97074090It matters more than zero. Not being competent at knowing how to navigate, survive, and fight on a battlefield is a good way for your advantages to not make enough of a difference in many real world situations, including the kind that we're talking about from a historic perspective.The fact that opposing nobles would tend to try to defeat and capture each other tells us plenty as well. Being good at fighting wasn't just a matter of warfare, it was also a matter of them trying to force dick-waving contests into those situations. This is also not exclusive to Britain; it was normal to see people challenge each other to honor duels on Japan's battlefields as well (racking up more and more bragging rights, and getting paid more for killing people who had more bragging rights).
>>97064858>t. only knows thugs from Hollywood moviesI kinda envy yoy.
>>97075951but enough about you
>>97075871>it was normal to see people challenge each other to honor duels on Japan's battlefieldsno it wasn't, retard
>>97056868It's basic game theory man, your slavish devotion to 'realism' is why your games aren't fun
>>97074090>individual skill and competence still don't really come into the equation.On a battlefield, the training of the troops is more about acting collectively, not panicking, following orders... than about individual prowess. A trained army of mercenaries will beat the shit out of untrained peasants, not because they are individually superior but because they act like a unit.Old D&D used to reflect that, your high level Fighter attracted a small group of mercenaries and could ask his peasants to come and fight, he was supposed to lead them. The Companion book in BECMI had a system for Battles, and the boss would just add a few % to the efficiency of his troops, training, ground and strategy were considered more important. Is there anything like this in Pathfinder?
>>97076734>Is there anything like this in Pathfinder?the Leadership feat
>>97056868>Why is this such a common trope in TTRPGs?Have you seen your politicians?
>>97076318It's not a dominant matter of Japanese war culture, but it's not a thing that didn't happen. It's also just a very old matter. Situations like this dropped off after the Mongol invasions.
>>97077602are you actually this stupid or just pretending
>>97075871>>97076318>>97077602>>97077608There is a kind of truth to this, but like this Anon said in relation to stories about Cortez >>97073638 there's a very serious amount of historians doubting records that don't have good evidence and don't make sense.In this case, the idea that people tended to pair up all the time in Japanese battlefields is more or less ridiculous. However, there is a real grain of truth to it somewhere in there. At times, a samurai and his retinue were like private contractors, and they were focused on the fight at a smaller scale. They really would look for small groups, or sometimes individual opponents, that they thought they could pick off, and work through the battle that particular way. And on occasion, samurai, or even other important figures, would happen onto each other and get into these smaller-scale skirmishes. Which is to say that one one ones still happened, just that all the theatricality of honor duels on the battlefield is kinda nonsense. They were just part of the happenstance of the fighting, and how people were engaging in that fighting.
Because it's cool to fight a bunch of guys then fight one really strong guy at the end. It's a lot lamer if the guy you fought all the way here to get is a total pushover. Sometimes you do it with a mech suit, sometimes an artifact or power up of some sort. But sometimes it's cool for the guy in charge to just be able to kick your ass.
>>97056868>that color scheme>that pose
>>97078951>Dr. Pavel, I'm prison warden
>>97056868Isn't this the setting with demigod black tiefling girl bosses and her super human thugs with the same level as dragons?
>>97078834Adding to this, even in those particular situations, there were some instances of samurai declaring who the fuck they were on the battlefield. Not in some "I am X and Y, and I challenge you to honorable dueling!" necessarily, but for other good reasons.For example, if you were basically a military contractor, you weren't necessarily going to be easily identifiable among the men that you were fighting with, and needed people to know who you were. So, as absurd-seeming as it is, sometimes they would openly declare who they were and who they were fighting for when coming upon people on the field.And also, because they were military contractors, they needed to be able to identify their kills. More kills and better kills for samurai could mean better pay. They would do things like gather the heads of their slain foes, use specially marked arrows to identify their kills (since samurai were horseback archers far more than people tend to know), etc. If you found another samurai you thought made for a good target on the field, and he'd made some declaration about who he was, you would want to remember what he said so you could report your contributions for the battle. It was all about getting paid in these cases, basically.
>>97056868To be fair, most of these cases would be forgivable if the high-level guy was explicitly a former PC the way Mordenkainen is written.My line is when an entire community of people are high-level arbitrarily with no respect to their actual accomplishments.
>>97057000Even early modern figures Napoleon and George Washington did things that would violate common sense like leading the charges and storming forts from the front. Naps killed a man in bayonet-to-bayonet combat.
>>97080256>Naps killed a man in bayonet-to-bayonet combat.You really believe that? He was like 5 feet tall.
This guy would need to be executed by a firing squad of 130 musketeers.
>>97056868Because it makes games fun.Which is what playing games is about.
>>97056868>the Diadochi block your path
>>97082655Another instance of "people repeating historically inaccurate nonsense" in the thread. Napoleon was like 5'6". He was of average height.
>>97080256This ballsy motherfucker was basically a TTRPG villain, or hero depending on your side.
>>97083385He was way shorter.
>>97056868
>>97078951>>97083505You don't get to bring companions.
>>97078951you mean a completely different pose?
>>97056868>Why are tropes of heroic fantasy in my heroic fantasy TTRPG?
>>97066033Even then professional soldiers tended to be a class apart from the plebians, with the English Longbowmen being a kind of compromise where people who doubled as laborers were compulsed to train to be skilled fighters. It wasn't until the late 18th century that you saw the rise of professional, skilled low-born troops like the Roundheads of the New Model Army who would eventually evolve into things like career privates and the standard NCO/CO separation that Napoleon would refine to great effect.
>>97062121Isn't this just THAC0?
>>97057479>Hogger say get your dirt out of Boss Hogger's ditch
>>97080256>did things that would violate common sense like leading the chargesOne might think that until they realize the truth of war is that the team of guys who is more motivated to win, so utterly convinced of their own success and immortality, is the one who is probably going to win with some side helping of luck. Seeing Your Guy, the guy whom you're doing this all for, the larger than life figure you wish would notice you (and maybe get some personal awards from for good service), being right there up at the front has a decided effect on how the men will behave. They will be nearly suicidally brave with him around, out of pride or just desire for monetary reward.Equipment and training and numbers are all important but also exist as factors to manipulate morale.Even in modern warfare it exists to an extent but its undercut by the fact that in a late stage martial culture competence has become secondary selected trait. Peacocking and nepotism becomes rampant, higher leadership becomes overfilled with individuals who no longer have (or maybe never had) a clear perspective or even martial ability and become concerned only with their personal career success instead of operational goals. Competent leaders get selected against and filtered out because they think in contrary to culture not relevant to the actual mission. Shit like this kills the morale of the regular rank and file even before the shitty decision-making kicks in.
>>97087384that's just that ancestral worship copeit's always been the same
>>97079031that's from the very same adventure as lord guirden i think
>>97087245Pathfinder 2e has Margins of Success (+10= critical success, -10= critical failure), in AD&D 2e a +5 bonus means you're less likely to get Hit, whereas in Pathfinder it may also mean that you are immune to Criticals and your opponent is more likely to crit fail. It is a huge difference.> example> you need 14+ to HitIn Add2e it just means your chances to Hit are 35%. However in Pathfinder 2e, you'll fail critically on 1-4 (20%) and you'll hit critically on 24+ (0%).From there, being 4 levels higher now means that you hit on 10+, never fail critically and can succeed critically on a 20.Because of this, a few levels of difference is a huge gap, whereas in Add2e your stats would only slightly change every x level (Saves would get less than +1 per level, for example).
>>97088103I see. That's pretty useful and clever. Maybe I should try PF2E soon.
>>97088233NTA: PF2e is... fine. I have loads of gripes about how Paizo tries to handle class design, items, and stat balancing but the actual math is good enough to work around. I would reccomend you go in with moderated expectations, and probably bake in a few optional rules like Automatic Bonus Progression, since the system is balanced around assuming optimal item bonuses anyway. Personally I like playing with Profeciency Without Level, which takes away the flat level bonus, but that's more down to taste/campaign style.
>>97079031somebody post it
>>97056868looks like a random fat nerd self-insert
>>97056868because in TTRPGs the organizations are warrior kings, mercenary companies, and bandits, where those ARE the kinds of things that lead to leadership status.
>>97056868Because the games don't emulate real life, they emulate heroic storytelling in which the authority and power leaders wield is symbolized by them personally being great warriors. If you do not like this, you should run games in which it is not the case, but that's part of the expected milieu.
>>97087709What a brilliantly unfalsifiable platitude that makes you sound above it all, retard.
>>97087709Wrong
>>97087384Morale is a sort of intangible and important matter in warfare, and seeing your leadership figures in the field with you being competent and suffering your problems with you helps with that, but there is a degree to which you're talking out of your ass. Same with the degree of cynicism you seem to have for systems; not all of your beliefs are just a given, even if you can provide some examples where these things happen.
>>97056868money in real life gets you cool shit like swords and guns, both of which instantly kill youit also gets you cool shit like armor and tanks which prevent you from dying instantlymoney in ttrpgs doesn't do shit half the time because equipment isn't nearly as overpowered as it is in real life
>>97056868Heroic fantasy logic. Think of it this way: in reality, you have a security team and a set of specialists who are better at stuff than the boss. They are in all senses a figurehead who serves to concentrate criticism and create an illusion of coherent decision-making.In fantasy, this is not an illusion. They are the decision-maker because they are the best, and not a champion or an advisor or something similar. Because if the best were the champion or the advisor, it would have to be kept secret somehow, else no one would care what the head of the organization thought; they would go straight to the actual elite to handle it.
>>97096944Yeah but being the best at fighting doesn't make you the best at making decisions or even want the responsibilities of making decisionsThe head of an organization should be competent enough to handle himself and be better than any young upstarts but there should be plenty of seasoned vets who are stronger than him in a fight but still recognize his other competencies that they accept his leadership.
>>97097096>Yeah but being the best at fighting doesn't make you the best at making decisions or even want the responsibilities of making decisionsBeing the leader doesn't make you that either.
>>97097370>Being the leader doesn't make you that either.In a meritocratic setting, it makes you the best that everyone can agree upon.
>>97097536Which doesn't actually make it true.
>>97097096Leveling up makes you better at everything in pathfinder
>>97098024But it doesn't.
>>97083385>Napoleon was like 5'6". He was of average height.average for a Japanese peasant
>>97101266You add your level to everything you're at least trained in (which is a very low bar)
>>97057244This is well documented.
>>97101426And there's the Untrained Improvisation feat you can take at level 3.Legacy version>Your proficiency bonus to untrained skill checks is equal to half your level instead of +0. If you’re 7th level or higher, the bonus increases to your full level instead. This doesn’t allow you to use the skill’s trained actions.Remaster version>Your proficiency bonus to untrained skill checks is equal to your level –2. This improves to your level –1 at 5th level and your full level at 7th level. This doesn’t allow you to use the skill’s trained actions.This version's better at every level except the 3rd when it's worse by 1 and 4th when it's the same.
>>97101286Average for a French man at the time he was living. "Haha, manlet," except he's just a somewhat short man by modern American standards, and still taller than the average modern American woman.
>>97107996He was a Corsican, though one well adapted to French culture.
>>97108072Yeah, that's technically right. Point still being that he was not short among his contemporaries.
>>97057448>shift ordersFuck this warden if he pulls me from an easy post to watch some shitstick on suicide watch
>>97107996He was called a manlet by everyone. Average height was probably just his cope.
>>97082655A midget can kill a man with a spear anon.
