Welcome to Mecha Monday! Here we dedicate ourselves to mecha RPGs, wargames, and boardgames alike. Here we start games, tell campaign stories, share resources & assets, and seek advice for our games and homebrew.Assorted Mecha Goodness:https://pastebin.com/E2wi55AZEmbryo Machine Translation:https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1r_cjOLuUp3HussVRhbQYU3G0zK6hwy1rLancehounds Homebrew:M3g4 folder/eMEBUbCL#kj2FRrlqTa-02U16XpnVRgPrevious Thread:>>96959074Question of the Thread:Following up on a question from the previous thread, what's your preferred method of leveling up and improving your mechs and characters?Thread Theme:https://youtu.be/cPg4cPGNPTQ
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As a relatively new Lancer GM, the level up system is interesting but pretty obviously limited. You can always give players extra long missions to challenge them and limit their progression, but after a while, it gets a bit formulaic where they just get a level after every set of missions.I saw in one of the splatbooks that there's a system to use money instead to buy licenses/gear and skill points, that seems interesting but I imagine a lot of people would just power through to an optimal build first and mostly ignore character growth itself. Are there any mech RPGs out there that make you spend money on ammo like the AC games? Something like that would make for a dynamic where you could keep some cheaper and lower tech options around for dealing with problems more efficiently to make more money for upgrades. It would probably make book keeping a pain in the ass though.
>>97092391Wish there were more STL's of stuff like this.
He’s back
are there any mecha RPGs that still give mechanical depth to the mecha themselves (part assembly is my main thing) while having a focus on the out-of-mech parts as well? i've been looking recently but all i've been able to find is mech autism simulators with implied diplomacy RP or diplomacy simulators with PBTA mechs
>>97096337Heavy Gear has both but it doesn’t have full part assembly
Anyone got the Blood Money Lancer supplement files?
>>97096337Mekton Z, man
>>97096337There's that Lancehounds brew some anon made last year as well. He went full Armored Core. The older ChromeStrike does that too, I believe.
>>97097640>>97098740>>97098794thank you all, especially the anon who pointed me towards Lancehounds
>TQIn the previous thread, Anon posted about wanting feedback on his ideas for character & machine advancement:>>97069291>Pilots don't have any limits to stats (mechs do, more on that later)I'd like to know more about this. How does that work. I know you use a D100 system, so... Mechs top out at 100, and characters can go above that? Could you say more about the reasoning behind this?>and have skills beyond pure numerical stats (like counterattaking, shooting several weapons at once, improving your stats when you have lower health, etc).So, in other words: feats?>I have 3 options:>- On level up, you have X points to increase stats as you want. (Pure point buy)>- On level up, your stats increase a fixed amount determined by your class (Like SRW Alpha Gaiden)>- A middle point, you stats increase a fixed amout, but you have a small amount of points to customize your stat gains (like SRW W)I'd recommend pure point buy, personally. Minmaxers are gonna minmax no matter what you do. Leveling up a fixed amount is boring and same-y. I mean, personally I hate the idea of Levels in general, but I do recognize that they can be handy in some contexts.1/2
>>971010342/2>>97069295>For the mechs, >- My first option is a fixed amount of upgrades and how much those upgrades improve the machine. IE: There are 15 upgrades posible for each stat, and each upgrade gives 10 to the stat. (like most SRW)>- The second one is that the improvment depends on the mech. One made for tanking improves it's defense by 15, but the sniper by 5 instead.>- Another option is that the number of upgrades for a unit is not fixed, and some can be upgraded further. The tanky mech can increase it's hp a lot of times, the sniper can increase it's ranged attack more times than the tank.>The first option is the easiest to implement, but it removes any base disctinction among mechs at least on base improvments. Second and third (specially if you combine them), allow for more distinction between mechs, but on the long term will create a very big bridge in the stats among mechs, and if you make a custom frame, it can lead to very disgusting minmaxing.>What to I do?Again, minmaxers gonna minmax. I might recommend option 2, but the bitch of this -- the bitch of any mecha game -- is balancing the points costs. Although, I guess your mecha upgrading is not based on point buy at all, is it? Actually, could you elaborate on that?
Does the hunter killer drone have much use in blitz? I always find myself going for the recon and demo ones over it
>>97103442I dunno, I always tend to just use my standard machines to take em out. Tho I suppose drones could be cheaper for that.
snow mecha for the winter season
>>97108942Soltic HT128 Bigfoot in snow camouflage with cold shielding says ho-ho-ho!
Have any Lancer campaigns been about fighting the Union?
>>97111856Yes, I had a few.1. mercs in space doing merc shit, came across union forces a bunch.2. a planet's honor guard defended their monarch to the end3. corpos ran into union resistanceIf you are talking modules then idk. probably one or 2
>>97112561I mean, I ask because I feel like Lancer is a solid game provided you don’t follow how retarded the setting is, and do your own thing with like-minded people.
>>97114237i really love how much the setting assblasts 4chan. a good sign they did something right
>>97114790No one is offended by the woke shit anymore. People realize it's a war now, and enemies are for hating, not being surprised by.
>>97114878>immediately proves my pointlol. lmao. they cant help themselves
If I have a conscript (drone) in combat group A and Combat group B has an officer in it (the political officer thing milicia and sra get) can the drone operate normally in formation with them?
>>97115080Yeah, it can ignore the penalties when in formation with any commander.
>>97114790The setting explicitly makes death a non-factor. It deserves every assblasting it gets.
>>97114790>basing your assessment of something on how much The Enemy dislikes itWhat is it like being a hollow parody of a thinking being?
I know it's in that contentious 28mag sphere, but has anyone here given Flames of Orion a shot? I like the relative simplicity and customizability from reading the rules. Although I can't help but notice how easy it is to make nuclear kamikaze aircraft to torpedo mechs with, which is funny.
>>97114237>Lancer is a solid game provided you don’t follow how retarded the settingPeople always say this but it's not a great rpg either. It's so heavily build and combat focused that it was designed to be played with an app, and then literally everything else is such an afterthought it took like two expansions to add money or trading. It's an analog video game where you get to do all the maths and dicerolls.
Posting my super robot game again, Divine Machine Golem: Last Day of the Universehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1caJu0EBGkkr40ObO82Qv_LF7GsmoQtOtbthrtYaokDs/edit?usp=sharingI'd be interested in hearing any thoughts or if people would want to play it.and unlike lancer it's cool
Anyone got any cool mech game assets?
>>97116882MegaMek has thousands of assets that one can easily use as tokens for online games, and is free
what would yall think of a western style mech with a stickerbomb coat?
>>97117590I wouldn't think of it at all
>>97117590Wouldn't that just be a Dreadnought with way too many Purity Seals?
>>97117590Perfect for an arena mech. It's what I did for my AC6 core.
Give me some fun bonus objectives for my players to do on maps aside from the typical kill/extract/hold stuff.
>>97120073Automated defense systems scattered around that are offline and can be activated by either the players or the enemy
>>97115352>deserves every assblasting it getsKinda like yer mom
>>97120073>Give me some fun bonus objectives for my players to do on maps aside from the typical kill/extract/hold stuff. Transport a VIP through a dangerous area, but VIP is unruly and misbehaves, causing problemsEscort a shuttle or convoy through contested territoryGet into enemy-held area and shut down unstable reactor -- or set explosives to blow unstable reactorPerform hostage exchange, but there's a double-cross going on. Or a third party, making each side look badImportant NPC is running away, trying to defect -- pursue and intercept before they make it into the hands of the enemyRaid enemy depot for fuel/ammo/supplies, and/or create diversion so said raid can be pulled off
>>97121420chatgpt please go
>>97121766So... You can't tell the difference between a person posting some quick suggestions and a plagarism engine mindlessly barfing? Please try contributing something to this thread, instead of flaunting your stupidity like you're proud of having a tiny dick.
>>97121996the double dashes replacing what would be em dashes gives it away plainlythat and you didn't actually answer the question at all, llm-kun, I'll stop responding now because I know you'll just keep going infinitely otherwise.
>>97122009Heh. I hate AI & LLMs and such as much as any decent person, but man, policing and scrutinizing people's punctuation on the internet is a sure sign of foolishness -- as you have so clearly demonstrated. Now go play outside, child.Meanwhile, back to >>97121420:Another fun mission is mapping an area -- like, having to actually travel over/across every single hex (or square or inch or whatever) on the map to provide critical recon data to command for, well, whatever reason. Surveying where to build a base, or a minefield? Digging up resources? Any of those type of things.
>>97118559>admits to being a brain dead 4channerlike clockwork
fuck the thread is dead this time around>>97120073how about a natural disaster such as an earthquake or volcano or tsunami taking place while the players are trying to do their mission
Would layers of aluminum alloy or steel be a good fit for armor in a setting where mechs need to be light, around 5-7m, inexpensive and easy to procure and produce, and not directly fight anti-vehicle weaponry (it's a monster hunter type deal)? Or are there other materials that could work better? I'm thinking of just it calling Steel Composite or something. They don't fly or have hot generators, but they tend to go pretty fast with their legs and get sent flying every once in a while because of monsters beating the shit out of them.
>>97098185Nevermind, I got it. Really like the tone and mission structure, and actually giving a use for money to be earned
>>97125970can you share please?
>>97126218Search on desuarchive “Blood Money” and you’ll find it in one of the previous pdf share threads with a gofile linklmk what you think about it
>>97125960Steel or Titanium are the most realistic armor materials with more or less modern tech. For higher tech you could maybe go for something like Borazon.
The commander of my MILICIA force is a recon hun and on top of vet for the command points I bought field armor for it and i was wondering, is that overkill for a vehicle?
Picked up the assemble preview sets to work on this month
>>97128520Field Armor I find to be pretty damn good. It might only really be somewhat useless for really high armor units (11 and higher) or really low. It can even be useful on humble Hunters. Even then those really high armor units generally come with field armor as a trait such as the Aller. I throw it on my Kodiak all the time. It's mainly a matter of cost and how much you anticipate this unit getting it's hands dirty so to speak. A recon hun might be slightly overkill unless you're anticipating commando units. But another varient lile the Hittite would be super worth slapping field armor on.
>>97128722Truly, "Wings of Advance" is delicious Japanglish at its most coolly evocative
So yesterday's session went pretty well! The gang made a good sabotage on a raider camp that's about to strike this town.Next time we'll see if they can face their retaliation.
Whats a mecha setting that falls between sleek and cool mechs and heavy and technical mechs. I'm thinking something like between Gundam and Battletech.
>>97130037We're all gonna die.>sad ESE Depresso noises.
>>97130130Armored Core.
>>97130130Gundam. Sleek is macross.
>>97130213Armored core is still too fast for my liking. I'd like my mechs to obey the laws of physics at least.
>>97130130titanfall, for as much as that setting does everything in its power to make you not play in the actual mech itself.
>>97130130Power Dolls or Full Metal Panic.I'd also say Heavy Gear, but that's slightly 'dirtier'. Tho some factions there are more shiny.>>97130139Oh please I'm sure you'll do *fine*.
>>97130037What game?
>>97128722When is the game supposed to drop officially? I tought it was end 2025
>>97130740Heavy Gear 4e
>>97130130Full Metal Panic is perfect to methe mechs are all clearly mechanical but they fight in an actually cool manner and some practically have magic. It "gets" mecha for me. You have cool big soldiers that are all vehicular machines but they fight like classical heroes from fantasy (and also they have rifles)
>>97130785I was going to attach a webm but I forgorlike look at this shit
>>97130795This is how I like to imagine mech combat. Fast AND Heavy. Being Heavy doesn't mean you need to be slow as molasses, it means you have momentum and power.
>>97130772Assemble is in 2026, the one currently released is promotional run for the Trading Card Game, you get a deck to play the TCG and models to be used as fancy token, and they're on round base. The actual Gundam Assemble game is on hex base.Next set is Barbatos
>>97110824sus
>>97130263Also Armored CoreJust Armored Core 1, 2, and 3 instead 4, 5, or 6
>>97130795Man I wish I knew this existed when I was a kid.
>>97130795>after the shot at the start, not a single reaction from the environment to multiple tons of metal leaping around and hucking explosivesMight as well be watching ghosts brawl
>>97130795>>97130852>>97133467>>97133553Full Metal Panic is really good mecha fare. I sure do hope we get more eventually, even though the studio burned down. I understand the author is doing a new story.
>>97133553At a certain point I just stop caring. It's not a 3 part 80's ova or some modern chinese money "everything falls into cubes" show. Environmental destruction is expensive. If you choose to cut it to get other things done, fuck it. Everything's a compromise.Same with people complaining about anime mechs not having enough physical damage and paint scratching and whatever. Shit's expensive. You've gotta make space in the budget for one of the shoulder covers to get blow up midway through the fight.
It's a new Mecha Monday, and the missiles are flying. What mecha games do you think handle the Itano Circus well?
>>97116882As the guy who posted that screenshot, I can recommend searching for Star Wars VTT assets and maps. There are subreddits for it (yes, yes, I know) where you can find free ships and terrain and such. Sometimes you can also hit up Spriters Resource and rip assets from games; search "SD Gundam G Generation Cross Rays" for some examples.Mechs themselves are harder to find, but sometimes map artists will also release vehicle/token packs. I frequently raid Retrograde Minis and their community; it is primarily meant for Lancer, but there are a lot of hull shapes and pieces that can work for other games. And of course, if you don't require them to be top-down view, you can just find suitable artwork of a mech and make a token out of that.>>97117320I haven't used MegaMek in a long time, so could you tell me if the resolution on individual hexes has improved? Used to be kind of small for my needs, so I preferred to scan my physical mapsheets or trim out specific terrain features.>>97122116>Another fun mission is mapping an areaAnd if one of the PCs has better sensors than the others, it lets them feel more useful when they can cover a wider range or do the job faster!
Working on a Mecha RPG system, set in a wild-west Earth abandoned by government and corporations after worker unions went to war, retrofitting industrial mechs for combat. Not sure what direction to lean in terms of gameplay, though. I've only made one other system from scratch and I'm working on a few other ideas kind of concurrently.So far I'm taking apart other systems that do things I like to try and make a system that's not too dense, but still has the tropey elements and mechanical bits (pun intended) that I like.> 4chan's own Wild Cards (the system where you use cards instead of dice, representing resource management)> Magnagothica Maleghast (small-scale, tactical combat scenarios, mech customization)> PbtA like MASKS and Avatar Legends (Moves feel like a good way to handle tropes of the wild west genre like standoffs, possibly adaptable to cards as previously mentioned)Any mecha systems that might be good material for the sort of thing I'm doing here? Scarce resources, survival on a bleak but slowly-recovering Earth, something about the way of the gunslinger/mech pilot fading away after the war...
>>97120073I was going to upload a PDF of bonus objectives from Lancer Enhanced Combat but the nigger mods still haven't turned them back on, so you're getting an image dump instead.
>>97139787
>>97139793
>>97139795
>>97139798/dump
>>97139787>>97139793>>97139795>>97139798>>97139802thanx anon
>>97111856i'm funny, I usually run my campaigns sort of parallel to union's own goals, intersecting only so often in such a way that both parties change priorities based on their meeting.good uses for union, for more than just an opponent:>a ticking clock; the presence of union in any wartorn area generally means that the conflict will end, soon.>omen; the UIB knows something you don't.>philosophizing; they're ultimately well meaning, if perhaps misguided to most.the setting has potential, but the aversion to treating it with more honesty (realism falls short, really) by the devs weakens it quite a lot. there's some of it between the lines, but you can see where concessions were made. the reason lancer hasn't continued being made is because, ultimately, leftist infighting between the devs. whomp.
>>97140128Personally I'm using Union as a ticking clock in my game, players are fighting an opposition force using some not so sanctioned means and they know that when Union gets there conflict is going to stop real fast and bureaucracy is going to rear its ugly head so they're trying to knock out as many key players/infrastructure as possible before then (and then probably go under cover to try to do more damage under stealth after)
>>97133553I dunno I think the scenery destruction is appropriateLike, yes, they're big robots, but steel and concrete structures don't just fall apart because you touched themalso it makes for better fight coreography if scenery *exists*. If mechs are too big you can basically start treating a lot of scenery as just fields with the occasional building or so, but if they're small enough to use the scenery to their advantage it can lead to very cool fights
>>97130130Code Geass. serious.
>>97140258it's actually fucked up how cool the mechs in code geass are - until they start flying and then it becomes dogshit gundam seed space lasers
>>97139802Is it me, or is the quality of this one way worse
>>97140237Compare the destruction in your clip to that of the other one. Yours has good damage levels, the other has nothing.
>>97140940the semaphore gets wasted, the building the guy was taking cover from gets wasted too, the streets gets shot to pieces and every single action they take kicks up shitloads of dustI dunno it makes complete sense to me. They're not exactly crashing into buildings, just moving and shooting and that shouldn't be destroying the city
>>97141024>the semaphore gets wastedThat is a traffic light, and it's also the last bit of actual physical damage in the clip.the building the guy was taking cover from gets wasted too, the streets gets shot to piecesNo. The buildings are entirely untouched. The explosions appear on the surface of the tarmac but don't actually affect the surface.>every single action they take kicks up shitloads of dustThe dust is there to hide the lack of physical disturbance, if you watch when it clears there's nothing else there.Compare that to the second clip where every shot of anything colliding with a concrete surface has impact marks.
if you make mechs above 8-10m it starts getting really hard to making good interesting maps without needing huge sci-fi megastructures like armored core 6
>>97144162There are plenty of normal buildings big & tall enough to block line of sight, but offer kinda brittle cover. Really big big robits like Mobile Suits, Variable Fighters, Heavy Metals, TSFs, Battlemechs, etc carry weapons that can destroy buildings and/or shoot through them.
>>97147686yeah its what I said. Basically it becomes just flat terrain where you just shoot at the other guy until he dies. A huge reason I hate space and air battles in Gundam is that it's 90% just MSs shooting and missing. A lot of the memorable fights in Gundam are on the ground when they actually make use of the scenery and gravity to have good fight coreography that uses the humanoid body in a cool fight"coreography" I think is the keyword here. We as human have years, centuries of imaginations and works pertaining to humans fighting each other with fantastical powers and hundreds of weapons, and only recently we have accessibility to be able to visualize a lot of it, which has given artists great power to illustrate fantastic duels that would sound impossible to imagine otherwise. Just look at any fight MAPPA animated in the JJK or Chainsaw Man anime recently and compare it to fights in older art, it's the coolest shit that we would *never* be able to make back in the old days of The Odysse.But I think the mecha genre has not caught up to it yet. A lot of "hey look at this intricately designed robot", but barely a bit of "ok but how does it fight in a way that creates interesting stories, and doesn't look like a slow walking target or a DBZ character?". I think that's the issue a lot of people have with mecha, it doesn't offer something interesting to people who already aren't interested, despite being interesting by itself itself.Mecha is the perfect blend between modern military stories and modern fantasy. You have vehicular combat with machines just like real life, but you can show them using swords, shields, jumping and fighting just like humans, doing cool acrobatics and the coolest shit, aided with tech and rockets and all that jazz. And yet so much of mecha media is "they fly/glide/walk slowly for some fucking reason and they shoot at each other and the other guy dodges or ignores it, I guess". Yeah no wonder people don't think about this shit
>>97147783ignore this
>>97144162Well you're looking at that backwards. This is perfect justification for your obscenely large megastructure games. Those guys are always grumbling that it's cool but they have no realistic ways of traversing them.
>>97147848why's he flying with the gear down
Newbie here: I've been in the mood for something mecha related recently and had a curioisity. Are there any games out there that demonstrate or showcase the technological superiority of the mechs vs non-mechs well? I'm not necessarily saying it HAS to be "Oh my god, the mechs are SOOO powerful and they just autowin every battle cause they're so cool," but I want the setting/rules to demonstrate WHY it's so devestating to have a mech on your side. Something like Heavy Object where they demonstrate how warfare has completely changed with the introduction of the HOs. It's even fine if a tank or a foot soldier COULD potentially beat a mech, but I want it to be a clear distinction like a level 1 vs a level 15 in another game.
>>97148940What would that look like mechanically? If it's a power gulf such that only extraordinary circumstances could cause a non-mech weapon to do more than negligible damage to a mech and a mech can turn a random human into a red smear without noticing, it's hard to give both of them rules equity. I'm not saying you have to go full Lancer where the pilot rules are a joke but it does rapidly approach that point.
>>97148940Mekton and even Cyberpunk 2020 qualify. Since mecha can make full use of Reflex boosters. Tanks can bring similar or even higher firepower to the table, but they lack the mobility and ability to dodge of a mech. And if you can't dodge you are fucked. Mekton settings also emphasize mobility of mechs so they can easily outflank a tank even if going through front armor may be somewhat hard.
>>97148940isnt that the premise of zeons initial rebellion in UC gundam? they develop the mass produced mobile suit first which gives them a huge advantage until the federation comes up with the GM and then they go even until the federation gets a hold of a gundam. if you can tolerate production values of a ps2 cutscene then gundam requiem for vengeance also kinda has an element of why a force with a superior mech technology is so devastating. in pretty much every setting i've seen where the mecha becomes immediately dominant, the mecha usually also have a secondary movement system to help the shortcoming of just walking everywhere. jetpacks, boosters, rollers, etc. only one i've seen where that wasnt the case was eva, but the eva's were weird biomechs that could run insanely fast and were such a massive scale that they were more kaiju than mecha
>>97149067Eva was fine because all the threats came to them, and even they still had carrier craft they sometimes used.Luv it when mechs have carrier craft and heavy lift helicopters and whatever else.
>>97149033Well like I said, it doesn't have to go that extreme. I really just want a mechanical impact on the setting that demonstrates that there is a clear gulf between someone with it vs someone without it that makes it so that being without it is a huge disadvantage.Sort of like the gulf in most fantasy RPGs in general between someone that has a weapon and someone that just has their fists. They COULD try and fight back, and MAYBE they could win, but they are insane for trying instead of running to look for their own.>>97149050Mekton spooks me a little cause it's very clearly Gundam theme'd, and I've watched very little Gundam. Feels like I'll attract the Gundam fans and be crucified for not knowing things.>>97149067All the above said, I should probably get into Gundam at some point though. The problem that I've run into is the media I've been watching has been Giant Robot vs Giant Robot/Kaiju, and ultimately what that winds up looking like is a Cyborg vs Cyborg/Monster fights since the scale is always super zoomed out, and I don't "feel" the impact of the scale or the dominance of the technology.
What are some mech games that lend themselves well to solo play? Bonus points for featuring decent options for customizability for the mechs.
>>97149138gundam is also notoriously hard to get into, with a lot of shit in the main universal century storyline that never got a western release, is hard to track down or has spotty translations, multiple versions, etc, and then you have all the spinoffs like wing, G gundam and so on which have no connection to the main story but sometimes have similar....tropes that can make it hard for a newer viewer to discern between the two like the antagonists zechs marquise and char aznebele essentially being memetic clones of each other but completely unrelated characters, or mobile suits like the zaku and leo both being army green cyclopse mechs. if you have netflix, i would say requiem for vengeance can be enjoyed without pretty much any prior gundam knowledge beyond the fact that zeon and the federation are two warring factions. its a fairly self contained series. 8th MS team as well has a similar vibe. both of those are also quite short so you dont need to devote weeks to watching them, you can finish requiem in just a few hours, 8th MS team a little more than that. and those series do a good job of staying grounded as well. some other gundam shows like G gundam or seed end up getting quite fantastical to where the mechs feel more like RPG characters than mechsspeaking of mechs and RPGs though, if you want a video game that sells the power and dominance of mechs, check out chained echoes. a small and very cheap indie game, super nintendo or ps1 style graphics and gameplay reminiscent of rpgs of that period, its a hard bitten story of a company of mercenary mech pilots and has some surprisingly well written characters and cool designs. not an overly long or difficult game and i think it was like $10 when i got it. just be patient because when you play it, you dont get the mechs right away. once you do its worth it though
>>97149199You simply start with the original show and then watch everything else tomino did in succession. There weren't any spinoffs for this entire early stage of the franchise, there's nothing to be confused by if you ignore all the later stuff until later. All the spinoffs and alternate universes are just "watch it if you feel like watching it".
>>97148940BattletechTon for ton Mechs are more survivable and tend to pack more better weapons, and need crews of just 1But they're also around ten times as expensive
>>97149191I tend to find the best stuff for solo, at least for me, are the stuff that you can get MEGA autistic about, because when you're playing solo there's no need to worry about boring 4 other people at the table while you handle fiddly bits for 40 NPCs and 6 Party NPCs and then send that off to your accounting department (also yourself) to crunch the numbers and file the reports with, etc.So I would just find THE most heavily autistic thing you can find around and run headfirst into that.
>>97147783>yeah its what I said. Basically it becomes just flat terrain where you just shoot at the other guy until he dies. >A lot of the memorable fights in Gundam are on the ground when they actually make use of the scenery and gravity to have good fight coreography that uses the humanoid body in a cool fightYou kinda contradicted yourself with these two statements, but anyway...>A huge reason I hate space and air battles in Gundam is that it's 90% just MSs shooting and missing. Wellllllll I dunno about that. For one thing, they often have asteroids, colony wreckage, and debris that they use as cover and such. And for another thing, most mecha battles in most shows generally are mostly missed attacks, ended with lethal damage. Partial damage (like severed limbs, etc) is rather rare.>I think the mecha genre has not caught up to it yet. A lot of "hey look at this intricately designed robot", but barely a bit of "ok but how does it fight in a way that creates interesting stories, and doesn't look like a slow walking target or a DBZ character?". I fundamentally disagree with this. Have you watched original Macross? Or, say, V Gundam?>I think that's the issue a lot of people have with mechaNah, can't say I buy that.
>>97148940>Newbie here: I've been in the mood for something mecha related recently and had a curioisity. Are there any games out there that demonstrate or showcase the technological superiority of the mechs vs non-mechs well? Mekton Z!>I'm not necessarily saying it HAS to be "Oh my god, the mechs are SOOO powerful and they just autowin every battle cause they're so cool," but I want the setting/rules to demonstrate WHY it's so devestating to have a mech on your side. If you're playing Heavy Gear, the deal is that they're multi-terrain, multi-purpose, multi-duty, and maneuverable. If you're playaing WH40K, well, Titans have void shields. If you're playing Battletech, uh... um... I dunno, Battlemechs seem like they wouldn't be any more effective than tanks, and maybe less so. >Something like Heavy Object where they demonstrate how warfare has completely changed with the introduction of the HOs. It's even fine if a tank or a foot soldier COULD potentially beat a mech, but I want it to be a clear distinction like a level 1 vs a level 15 in another game.I think that would be in how you stat out the mecha. In Mekton Z, you can stat out everything however you want. Make all the mechs x10 Scale, and they're be close to unstoppable by anything less than a battleship.
>>97149067>isnt that the premise of zeons initial rebellion in UC gundam? They develop the mass produced mobile suit first which gives them a huge advantage until the federation comes up with the GM and then they go even until the federation gets a hold of a gundam.Yes and no. The Zeons made the first MSs and it took most of a year for the Feds to catch up. Initially the Federation had the Gundam, a Guncannon, and a Guntank on the White Base assault carrier and that was IT, they had no other Mobile Suits at all. It was several months later that the first GMs were produced, and then the war really started turning.>if you can tolerate production values of a ps2 cutscene then gundam requiem for vengeance also kinda has an element of why a force with a superior mech technology is so devastating.I was surprised how much I liked R4V, and how faithful to the spirit of Gundam it was.>in pretty much every setting i've seen where the mecha becomes immediately dominant, the mecha usually also have a secondary movement system to help the shortcoming of just walking everywhere. jetpacks, boosters, rollers, etc. I chalk that up more to it being easier/cheaper to animate the mecha zooming around than to animate them running. However, there are still mecha settings where the mecha do just run around. Dougram is a good example.
>>97149138>I really just want a mechanical impact on the setting that demonstrates that there is a clear gulf between someone with it vs someone without it that makes it so that being without it is a huge disadvantage.I appreciate this. Mekton Z can do that for you, in that you can spec out everything yourself.>>97149138>Mekton spooks me a little cause it's very clearly Gundam theme'd, and I've watched very little Gundam. Feels like I'll attract the Gundam fans and be crucified for not knowing things.It's Real Robots in general -- Macross, Votoms, Dougram, Gundam, Patlabor, Orguss, etc etc etc. It make nods to Super Robot fare too, but isn't ideally suited to it.>>97149067>All the above said, I should probably get into Gundam at some point though. Yes you should. Watch the original Gundam TV series, then Z Gundam, then the Char's Counterattack movie. Gundam ZZ happens between Z and CCA, but you can skip it if you like simply because it's not very good.>The problem that I've run into is the media I've been watching has been Giant Robot vs Giant Robot/Kaiju, and ultimately what that winds up looking like is a Cyborg vs Cyborg/Monster fights since the scale is always super zoomed out, and I don't "feel" the impact of the scale or the dominance of the technology.Have you watched much Super Robot fare? I might recommend Zeorymer, The Big O, and of course the masterpiece that is Bang Bravern.
>>97154976i've watched requiem 3 times now all the way through, its a good show, it just has some stiff character animation and dialogue line delivery, which turned some people off. if i remember right the show was an experiment to see if a modern animated show could be made entirely in a real time rendering environment in unreal engine 5
What's the best system for super-ish mechas?I tried GURPS but every rule for mecha combat feels like a kludge.
>>97157742just use DnD 3.5 or any "big number" fantasy system and adapt it. My setting isn't very "super robot" but the mechs are quite agile and mostly fight monsters, so I just rebuilt PF2E with mecha building
>>97159021>PF2E with mecha buildingDo tell more.
>>97159360I mean it's basically what Lancer is
>>97157742>What's the best system for super-ish mechas?Lancer. It's a superhero skirmisher game.
>>97159360Looking back on it, I don't think what I did will be of much interest to you because super robot is way more hero-based. My game is basically Armored Core PF2E, I posted about it more here >>97066076>>97066251here's a screenshot of a few parts mechs are built with, plus some weapons, so you can have an idea on what it looks like in practiceI had to translate these tables, and I'm sorry if the translation and screenshots are a bit odd, I did it in a hurry. Also ignore my shitty art.but basically, it plays like a more traditional fantasy TTRPG, but you have guns and tons of weapons and feats recontextualized into mechs using tech and their parts. Parts gain feats that PF2E characters would gain through their classes so players build mechs based on what they want.if anything, check out Starfinder 2E, that probably has more interesting things for a mecha game since it's sci-fi and it's still compatible with PF2E. I would have used it as a basis before making my system but I would have to redo a lot of stuff now.>>97159383I wouldn't call Lancer basically PF2E. PF2E has a lot of feat bloat while Lancer tries to make it very simple and "tag"/"trait" based>>97159418I do agree with this though, Lancer is pretty "super robot".
>>97157742>>97159670Play Battle Century G. It's a super robot mech game.
>>97159021>>97159936yeah no you just want Battle Century G
>>97159958>>97159936why not S ?
>>97130852>Being Heavy doesn't mean you need to be slow as molasses, it means you have momentum and power.Momentum need to be cancelled and heavy kinetic power require buildup to feel credible.You can't have both speed & mass without making both feel cheap.As much as I appreciate FMP KINOgraphy, it's full of completely magic move and I'm NOT talking about the Lambda drive literally cancelling gravity & mass (as displayed in the final by jumping over a mere billboard). I'm also tired of school settingAlso pointing out that anytime a mecha instantly change direction or fall to the ground without bracing, the pilot is subject to an acceleration no different from falling several floors high. Not talking about airfighter 15G, more like Lithobraking 50G. So you really need "Inertial Canceller" magic.
>>97160270Btw, when I mentionned the lambda drive making a joke of physics I was talking about this exact jumping scene >>97140237.Disbelief breaking scene also include mecha pushing each other away with no difficulty whatsoever.
>>97160026Probably force of habit. Plus, "G" is the most super robot letter out there, symbolizing hot-bloodedness.
>>97148940>Are there any games out there that demonstrate or showcase the technological superiority of the mechs vs non-mechs well?I'm surprised you weren't spammed with "mecha are cheated anyway" post.You word your demand like you expect verisimilitude that logically justify mecha, yet still want it arbitrarily favoring mecha.Basically you want self-consistency that just happen to make mecha feel logical. It's a level of worldbuilding that already rare without going into /m/ niche, I can't help you there, I'd have to write it myself to pass my criteria>>97149067The premise of Gundam require minosvky particles to fuck sensors so hard it's Vietnam in space, exploiting your enemy being poorly equipped for short-range combat, pretending your mass-produced giant are just construction vehicles, profiting of limbs to rotate in space without using fuel (AMBAC), and also having safe-nuclear-reactor powerful enough to casually stroll over mountains.
>>97157742Mutants & Masterminds works perfectly fine. You can either use 2nd edition which has a full blown Mecha supplement or adapt it to 3rd edition - not like its hard. Biggest problem with M&M is cheapness of getting new options through powers (arrays) and players coming up with different bullshit. Mechas being external and needing to find parts/weapons/tools for them neatly sidesteps that problem.
>>97148940>>97160524>Basically you want self-consistency that just happen to make mecha feel logical.I just made mechs fight monsters instead of humans in my setting. Kinda like Muv Luv but less fighter jet-y. It's even set in modern day and the mechs move with a different non-convention system that can only be used for them, but makes them affordable and simple, but not too powerful. A tank or a helicopter squad can't handle a dozen fast, big monsters chasing after them in a destroyed city, but a mech party can, way more easily. A tank does blow a mech to pieces in a single shot and helicopters can just fire missiles at them from really far away, though.Yeah of course if your mech is fighting humans you're fucked. You're a big target towering over buildings being chased by missiles and losing limbs to stray AP shells. It's why we don't build mechs in real life (beyond the other reasons).Asking for a setting where mechs fight against military but the setting is also advanced enough in technology to HAVE mechs requires some shit like Minovsky Particles because otherwise it makes no sense. And it's even worse because anon said "but I don't want them to be too overpowered", because now you're giving yourself even more of a handicap.If you want mechs to be "reasonable", you need to ask why a big human with a gun would be useful.
>>97160524>>97160627I think you missed the point a little bit. While, yes, I would prefer consistency over non-consistency, what I ultimately hate is that when I am watching something Mech related, I don't FEEL the scale or the power, and that's because you're typically fighting other Mechs or Kaiju. Just makes it feel like an anime swordsman in robot cosplay.
>>971626049th thousand post about mechs where someone asks "but where's the WEIGHT??" for the billionth timejust go watch pacific rim or gundam 08th ms team again.
>>97162604well then what kind of mecha media do you like there are a dozen media where mechs are heavy and slow
>>97162627What a pathetic quitter's attitude.>>97162647>well then what kind of mecha media do you likeI think Heavy Object so far has been an almost perfect example, if not THE perfect example. Things like that would ultimately be preferable.
>>97157742For Super Robots, I'd say Battle Century G
People who have infinity restrictions on when they're allowed to enjoy mechs are great. They've gatekept themselves totally out of the scene. They'll be annoying for a short while but there's little staying power in going "uhhhhh I don't get it!".
>>97130852>>97160270>moves at near speed of lightwhat are you going to do?
>>97159383Really? I've been looking to adapt the Starfinder mech system for PF2, but I don't really have the time or the skill to do it, my plate is full with learning PF2 as it iswould you recommend Lancer as a mech game system to use alongside it?
>>97165233I mean if you were to do that I'm not sure what you would be using the PF2 rules for. Just play lancer straight up.
>>97165233why don't you just use what this guy did >>97159670 if you want to use specifically Pathfinder?
>>97165244because the mechs are just a complement to the main game. right now my approach to mechs in PF2 are just constructs with a few extra rules>>97165312didn't know that Starfinder 2 already has rules for mechs
Not really /mm/ related but what do you do with a player that refuses to learn?I'm 8 months deep GMing a weekly game with 4 players and the other 3 have gotten everything down pat, one in particular has really figured out the system and leads the party well with some really fun and cool strategies both in and out of combat. But one guy seems like he's just there, he builds his character in a certain way then doesn't actually play to any of his advantages, he forgets basic action economy and abilites and constantly loses track of his stats/gear. We as a group have to remind him of a lot of things during his combat turns and roleplay options. I've tried talking with him about it and he just says he's busy and tired (we're all adults with mostly full schedules), but wants to keep playing. Any advice?
>>97167991kill them
>>97167991Is it negatively impacting the group? Do you value your relationship with this person more than the game? Does he see it as the weekly hangout rather than as a goal unto itself?
>>97164976We die.
>>97168106It's negatively impacting the group in that him making poor plays cost the party a mission failure in a couple cases and some avoidable player mech destructions here and there. I've known the guy for a while and while we're not super friendly I value that friendship over the game itself. He definitely sees the game more as a weekly hangout rather than a goal or something to win.
>>97164976at that point why are you even bothering to write a story
>>97168250genuinely just kill him
>>97164976I laugh in Zero Shift with my cock erect.
>>97168250Then you might need to start pulling punches. You work with the tools you've got, and you as GM need to decide if the problem is that this player isn't engaging with the game, or if the game is structured in a way where lack of engagement interferes with group enjoyment. Obviously I'm not saying the GM is the party's IRL life coach/secretary/therapist but you do control the pace. I've had D&D games where the healers forgot they could cast spells. I've had tactics games where only one player actually understood how to sequence their turn and went about using their resources with a plan. Both of those were better than what I have now, which is no game.
>>97168269>impacting the group in that him making poor plays cost the party a mission failureClearly he's playing with a man who wants to be a loser.
>>97168250Maybe he should just sit in, watch, snack, hang out, and not play?Alternatively, maybe he should play a character who works back at the base/ship/whatever, and doesn't go into combat?
I regret being so hostile to tankfaggots all these years, droneniggers are infinitely worse every time they force their way into mecha discussion. This is a venting post.
>>97168710But consider a mech with a drone
>>97168710tankfags get justified because of mechwarriorfags while dronefags get countered by a good stark jegan pilot
>>97168256NTA but cause even a high-flying crazy fantasy story with all sorts of bullshit happening can still have some really fun characters and events.>>97168710I mean, it's all the same thought process. Some people just have an obsession with bringing things down. It's always "heh, such hubris, you did anything cool at all? a simple landmine could destroy it..." with these guys. It's also a race to the bottom so "heh, a tank? what a waste of money..." is the obvious next step. Eventually we'll probably get "heh, drones?". Maybe microbes. "heh... a mere infection could kill your drone pilot..."
>>97169705>a mere infection could kill your drone pilotThis man has forgotten War of the Worlds.
Argh. Had one of my two best, longest-running, most invested players bow out of the campaign. 80 sessions in, and right after we'd had a rough patch due to communication failure. I've got a ringer I'm bringing in, very excited to join, but it has been hard trying to recalibrate for the loss of the other player and all the stuff I'd built around that PC. Also recalibrating enemy design and composition, since the old PC was a hyper-mobile duelist and new PC is a huge support technician.No particular question attached to this, mostly a vent post.>>97164976Use my mech's electronic warfare suite, and the technical specifications I seduced out of the enemy mech designer's daughter. By disabling the inertia protections, those near-lightspeed maneuvers become lethal to the enemy.>>97168185Love that movie, love that quote.
>>97170629>By disabling the inertia protectionsNigga you removed his limiters and made him faster. When has removing the protection system ever not made a mech deadlier?
>>97168250>He definitely sees the game more as a weekly hangout rather than a goal or something to win.Ask him to leave the game but in return ask for a second hangout night some other day where you play casual games, drink beer, and chill.
>>97170629>and right after we'd had a rough patch due to communication failure.So what happened and why is it unfixable?
>>97125960You could have steel or titanium armor with an inner liner of something like Kevlar to protect the crew/pilot fromstray shrapnel if anything gets through the armor plates
>>97125960Have you heard of our lord and savior Aluminium 7075?If you're up against nothing greater than small arms fire, and are a vehicle, consider good old Al 7075Cheap, light, good enough, very recyclable, plastic deformation before fracturing, less spalling than steel, awesome toughness (but not much hardness)Do note the downside: it makes you look like an armored vehicle, so they might use heavy weapons on youDo note the upside: it makes you look like an armored vehicle so they might waste heavy weapons on you
>>97170708>Nigga you removed his limiters and made him faster>mfw>>97170963It wasn't unfixable, and I had planned to talk to the group about it during the week. For what it is worth, the player gave other reasons for needing to bow out, and we are still friends. But their departure really took the wind out of my sails, and made the "what do we need to fix" conversation much harder.Anyway, I'll be chatting with some of the players tomorrow during our usual session slot. I'm aiming to resume the game next weekend.
>>97162604Just to be clear, this anon >>97160627 is not >>97160524 (me)If you want to "FEEL" anything, you REQUIRE self-consistency.Regardless if you are using a magic mecha to fight a Kaiju in Tokyo or send big exoskeletons inside a low-gravity Lunar metropolis to defeat hacked construction robots, it needs to follow unwritten-rules. From motion-limit to power-scale.Human are hardwired to recognize pattern and put off by anything that don't follow any.
>>97164976I remember to activate my device that instantly make object from another dimension disappear, aware that its silly physics couldn't harm us in any ways.
>>97172326>Just to be clear,[...]I know, I was just addressing the both of you.>If you want to "FEEL" anything, you REQUIRE self-consistency.Not necessarily. I'm rewatching Code Geass since I never finished it, and I think this is another example that I like, and it definitely doesn't follow consistency and you have some of the mecha flying around doing anime swordsman flips. But I like it because I can feel how much the Knightmare Frames outclass tanks and other devices.Also>Human are hardwired to recognize pattern and put off by anything that don't follow any.I think this is only true of the autistic. If the normies hated this so much, I don't think we'd have marvelslop or today's political climate.
>>97171187looked it up and that looks perfect. No, the mechs in my setting aren't fighting military so there won't be heavy weapons. Though they might get a hammer on the face or clawed really hard>>97171156the cockpit block itself would be the most armored area of the mech itself so I might add on something like thatOn that note, I also want some suggestion on ammo. Due to a treaty in my setting, the materials allowed for projectiles are mostly Zinc, Copper and Bronze, with all bullets being subsonic. Any interesting notes or materials/composites I might not know? Same thing, affordable or easy to procure and strong enough but not good at heavy armor piercing.
>>97160627>Kinda like Muv Luv but less fighter jet-y.Gunparade March?
>>97170629>disabling the inertia protections, those near-lightspeed maneuvers become lethal to the enemy.Do GTMs even have those? I'm pretty sure the War Caster (aka Knights aka Headliners aka Chevaliers) bullshits enough to survive the impossible G on their own. The controls of GTMs traces the user's movement like Mobile Fighters so technically the weares themselves needs to move that fast, proportionally.
>>97172366Code Geass is... no quality. It's not even built around the mecha, they are just decoration for the power-fantasy.I'm clearly no fan and there's no feeling of "mecha superiority" when I just eyeroll at obviously cheated mecha that obey different laws than anything else, the director no even being able to keep the rule consistent in a fight.Mecha have enough problem with the fact that as soon agility isn't enough to avoid/dodge ranged weapon or projectiles, anything with a good enough turret should one-shot them.>I think this is only true of the autisticNo that one is scientifically backed. The pattern doesn't even have to be a real one. If Magic A = Magic A, it's a pattern. If every time you hear a music, a certain character appears, that's a pattern (called a Leitmotif). Hell, plotline is the most basic pattern, no plotline or even formula? No interest.https://brainhealthuniversity.com/brain-health-insights/the-brains-obsession-with-hidden-patterns-seeing-meaning-where-none-exists/Also "marvelslop" are striving precisely because they've united them into a multiverse, creating patterns that didn't exist when they were unlinked, just like they've trained their audiences to feel a need to clap anytime a new actor appear. Political climate & culture war strawmen have nothing to do with it, it's pure consumerism & herd mentality.
>>97172515>the cockpit block itself would be the most armored area of the mechWow, almost like a kind of core that's armoured? An armored core?
>>97177548haha yeah, but it's mostly because the cockpit blocks are standardized, and the market leaders were the ones with the most safety features, so they stuck with that. There IS armored core-like mecha building, but a bunch of safety features became standard or basic requirements over the years. the Feds don't want the civilian survivors of a near-extinction war piloting suicide machines when they're at the point they don't even want to send the military to fight
>>97177494>Code Geass is... no quality.>there's no feeling of "mecha superiority" when I just eyeroll at obviously cheated mecha that obey different laws than anything elseHard disagree. Especially in the first part of the series. But let me ask you if you feel there is a mecha source that does it better? Especially one you feel is about the mecha and not a decoration for a power-fantasy?Also, I don't hate it when the mech is fast or agile, I just don't like it when it starts becoming a shounen with anime flips. And yes, CG does get like that towards the end, but at least its earned it through the first part of the show.>No that one is scientifically backed.Well, first off, what you linked is actually closer to an explanation for where religion comes from. There is other scientifically backed data that people actually hate TOO MUCH pattern and rigidity, and they seek some novelty.More importantly, what I meant by "this is only true of the autistic" is that only the autistic are capable of noticing patterns that strongly. Yes, people do like it when they notice patterns themselves, but normies are not going to notice that Dr. Strange violates a lot of the principals of the Spiderman universe by confirming that magic is real and doable vs. Peter's necessity to engineer web canisters and get his powers from nuclear mutation, because normies are going to clap more at the novelty of "OMG DR. STRANGE AND PETER PARKER!" Just like they are never going to notice and care that when they equip certain mech with certain parts it breaks conventions and rules established. They appreciate the novelty of "HOLY SHIT I CAN ZERO SHIFT NOW!" moreso than the pattern of the laws of physics. They only need a flimsy excuse to accept it.
>>97178239I think the maneuverability of the mechs in Code Geass is okay, especially when the "most anime shit" comes from the literal best pilots in the setting, but it does in fact go to BEYOND ABYSMAL DOGSHIT territory when they get flight units and it becomes Gundam SEED. Every time the mechs aren't flying, the fight choreography actually exists and looks cool
>>97178255To be fair I think the authors tried to show how the knightmare tech progresses through the war. From down to earth landbased machines, to way more powerful prototypes that won't be out of place in Armored Core, even if as starting frames, to outright flying gundam like machines. And, frankly, I'd say they succeeded in that, but the choreography of fights suffer for it with animators/directors being way better at doing more grounded combat.
>>97178239>Peter's necessity to engineer web canistersThis is a good example because organic web shooters were such a natural fit for the character that they've basically become the status quo and been sort of retconned as the default option in most cases.It doesn't make much sense, but it thematically suits much better than "oh and yeah I guess he's also a super-scientist who made this incredibly amazing compound and deployment system but he never sells it or anything". Sometimes the choice that makes less sense, makes more sense.
You know I'm talking to you so I'm just going to keep it simple instead of quoting every single post you've madeDude. You want something impossible. You want "mechs that feel superior to vehicles" but also they "have WEIGHT and FEEL" (I hate this fucking phrase so much) but also "they're not a power fantasy!" but also "it's realistic and scientific"-Stop.In Mobile Suit Gundam, the Mobile Suits have a REASONABLE train of thought: There are other military vehicles, but a very efficient fusion generator emits a particle that scrambles radar and visuals and makes encounters take place in closer ranges; In space, limbs can be used to create rotational energy (which is the AMBAC system); Zeon's top brass is a bunch of fascists so they prefer aesthetics that makes their enemies afraid; Zeon develops huge humanoid machines that use the fusion generator and that means they need to fight in close range; Mobile Suits are used everywhere due to their mobility and versatility. and their legs also allow them to operate in colonies with artificial gravity and even planet-side.Do you see the "reasonable" line of thought there? Your average sci-fi nerd isn't going to care that much since a lot of the justifications do in fact make a bit of sense. If you DO in fact analyze each part with a fine comb, there will be cracks, BUT it's okay because it leads to a good story.What you're asking is practically impossible because we have dozens of real life reasons that make mecha impractical and have disadvantages against normal military vehicles and weaponry, AND you're also asking for them to be more grounded and "weighty". This doesn't fucking reasonably work. There is no writer besides the most glazeful autist that will write something like that and not see the obvious fucking problems. You need a line that its okay to break. Alternatively you can play Ring Of Red for the PS2 and realize how what you're asking makes no fucking sense.
>>97178308>but it thematically suits much better than "oh and yeah I guess he's also a super-scientist who made this incredibly amazing compound and deployment system but he never sells it or anything".It actually doesn't, considering that Peter is an engineering student in a super science program under Doc Oc. But whatever, I'm not really here to discuss cape slop.>>97178313>Dude. You want something impossible.What *I* want is not impossible though. Heavy Object exists and does what *I* want perfectly. It provides a concise breakdown of why the HO is a great weapon and demonstrates this through its dominance while also simultaneously having drawbacks that allow foot soldiers the capabilities of capitalizing on the flaws of the system.What YOU think I want seems to be based off of some obvious ghost you're fighting that I can't even begin to delineate where it begins, because it seems like you think I want real life to actually build a mecha and you are carrying the unfortunate weight of knowing that it will never be, so it seems you want to gravitate towards 50 foot super heroes in plate armor. Which, okay, but I don't care about this ghost you're fighting nor did I ever. I just want shit that can demonstrate the weight and feel of a mech as to not make them limp and impotent.
there's no one that hates mecha more than mecha fans
>>97179851this is true of all things
>>97179851I'm a mecha fan, and I love giant robots so much I want to marry one
>>97180709Don't we all?
>>97179851This guy isn't a mecha fan. Heavy object isn't even a mech show anyway. They're really just big round tanks. They're miniature death stars to be invaded and blown up. The death star isn't a mech.He's just doing this to keep trying to tie together "heavy and weighted and realistic" with "loses to conventionals" btw. He'll insist it's weightless flippy ninja nonsense if the mechs win anything.
>>97182276EVERY SINGLE FUCKING MECHA THREAD on /v/ and /tg/ there's always the one faggot saying "BUT WHERES THE WEIGHT" EVERY single FUCKING time and they're always so fucking annoying. It's almost as bad as mechwarrior fags
>>97181618
>>97180709>>97181618>>97182418oh hey the fellow robotfuckers are here
>>97182348What if we put the mecha in space so they are weightless?
>>97182276>Heavy object isn't even a mech show anyway. They're really just big round tanks.Retard. Heavy Objects are just round Metal Gears.>>97182348>Playing Armored Core 6>Find a car on the road>Walk up to it to compare heights>Pinky toe of mech lightly pushes a breeze towards it>It rotates off 30 feet into space then explodes and vanishes in a minute puff of smoke>Mech doesn't even react to this; If I didn't have the camera on the car sprite, I would have never known that this event even occurred.>Same goes for storage crates, tankers, industrial grade silos, etc.>Apparently mech fans like you: "Yeah this is fine and desirable that your mech just feels like a dude in cosplay. God, why would anyone want the opposite of this?"Like this is so bizarre to me that people would bitch about this so much. What if your mech punched something and it just flopped like a wet noodle? You understand that you WANT to feel weight and impact right?
>>97183212>just round Metal GearsThat's a tank. If my uncle had two wheels he'd be a bicycle.
>>97140269This. Shit was peak when they were basically just super agile tanks with arms. The intro of the Burai Kai was as good as it got.
>>97159670hey this is actually super cute
>>97115431I've been so disappointed with various indi (war)games I don't buy them without pirating them anymore. Did you get a legit copy?
>>97178239>Hard disagree.How dare you miss that my tastes are objectively superior!?>But let me ask you if you feel there is a mecha source that does it better?If I have to go anime that are grossly equivalent to small, agility-build mecha, I'd say Full Metal Panic, even if the MC is obviously a surrogate for kids and get his super special mecha with Kitt AI.Arms Slave not all being colored like toys give some seriousnessStandardized weapons (even if gross upsized gun) show they don't have infinite budget/manufacturingTacticool operation show how they replace many units by themselves (even if you deployed them with stealth heli-carrier)And their agility give them kinography while justifying legs & arms.Even the cheat-drive is best suited to mecha>hardwired patterns topic"Autistic" is a compliment nowadays, the certainty they CARE for details and KNOW what they want.Renown writers and artists are easily called autistic for the efforts they put into their works and are appreciated for that. Take Tolkien."Normies" are still hardwired to like patterns, they are just unwilling or incapable of recognizing it and are drawn to pattern that marvel-slop maker know very well and even predict. For instance: giving a few seconds of silence after a new hero appear first so the hardcore fans can clap, or giving exactly the battles the fan want.>Zero ShiftPatterns, once you look past Zone of the Enders metatron as being magic-looking, you notice its rules (especially as it is a mecha game first).Space compression is how you store items, space compression is how the setting's FTL catapult work, space compression are shield, weapons, and subsystem.And the build up to the final of the ZoE 2.Another pattern: Viola keep coming back in ZoE 1, come back as a cyber-AI in ZoE 2, and is killed as a soulless fake, while Ada, born AI show some soul.>tl;drPatterns = mastercraft qualitychaos = uninspired shit
>>97182348You are either unaware that feeling of mass & inertia are to mecha what techniques & choreography are to kung-fu movie, or you are a nihilist who believe that thinking "caring about anything is silly" will make you feel smart.
>>97182541weightless =/= massless
>>97183212>a dude in cosplay.a dude in cosplay would be forced to display some weight and move according to physicswhat you describe is worse, considered a flaw in a game' physic engines.Despite that Armored Core 6 is really good, it cut down a lot on ZoomZoom!QuickBurst! and still play smoothly because it let go of its more annoying mechanics.
>>97185999Buddy, are you stupid? Being in microgravity (space) is weightless. That's the fucking sentence being said. If they are in microgravity, they are weightless and all weightlessness is thus totally appropriate. Tell me your racial background immediately, I wish to customize the slur I intend to call you.
>>97183373It's arguable that Akito the Exiled had the best mecha action in all of Code Geasshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3InnltG1aI
>>97178295This. I feel like it kinda makes sense that the fights become less impressive visually as time goes on because it matches the progression of real warfare, where close combat and individual skill have become less and less important ever since the day gunpowder became widely available. It also fits thematically with Lelouch's character arc, as he goes from a small time rebel leader to a political figure on the world stage that the combat scenes grow more impersonal as the focus shifts to large scale plotting and scheming. I don't LIKE it, but I respect what the writers were going for from an artistic standpoint.
>>97186939I fucking love this one so much it's the peak of mecha action for me
>>97186939actually crazy how good mecha action can look when they're not allowed to flyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMUTdPkMkLkGundam Wing and SEED ruined mecha action forever
Flying/space mechs can also have great choreography. Geass just goes to shit near the end in general. It's take that shows someone hasn't watched much mecha.
>>97187753it's not impossible but it is significantly more difficult and a lot of media barely tries. So much media is just mechs A-posing in space with a billion thrusters
Anyone play ever play this one? I looked at the rules they showed as a preview and it looked a bit more like a narrative system but it also glosses over some of the stuff you can do with the mech customization.
>>97187983Seconding this question, because I've yet to hear from anyone that actually played it. The game has been out for a few years now!
>>97187638>actually crazy how good mecha action can look when they're not allowed to flyDude, there's plenty of good mecha action with flying mecha. Have you never watched Macross Plus? Muv-Luv? Majestic Prince? >Gundam Wing and SEED ruined mecha action foreverHow is it that I'm 55 and you're a grumpier old man than I am?? ...Oh, wait. This is /tg/, not /m/. There are tons of grognards here. Silly me.We should get this thread back to mecha gaming. It's Monday again, and this IS the mecha Monday thread. So!>>97092391>what's your preferred method of leveling up and improving your mechs and charactersWell, I dislike levels (and character classes, for the most part) so it's straight-up experience points for me. For characters, anyway. For their mecha, it'd be construction points. Depending on the game, the CP earned from playing can be spent on new weapons and other equipment packages for the next session/sessions, or banked for an eventual overhaul/redesign, or banked even more for a whole new robot to be introduced mid-season or so.
>>97183235I fear this conversation is quickly going to devolve into this discussion (pic related). I'll just say that I consider mecha to be giant (bigger than a city bus) mobile mechanical devices that are piloted, and I'll probably keep claiming that until you find the obvious plucked-chicken I missed and sarcastically tell me "Behold, a man.">>97185747>How dare you miss that my tastes are objectively superior!?Then this means war.>Full Metal PanicI really need to rewatch this. I remember really liking it as a kid and I barely remember anything, but from what I remember of it, I'd agree with you.>"Normies" are still hardwired to like patterns, they are just unwilling or incapable of recognizing itYeah, and that's exactly what I'm saying, but I'm going a step beyond that. They aren't really necessarily noticing "true" patterns, but rather just the patterns they feel they are cognizant of. And even within that scope, like I mentioned before, even normies who notice patterns actually dislike TOO much pattern. This is why normies hate it when "it's too predictable" who the killer is in a mystery movie, or "It's just the same 8 gyms" in a Pokémon game even if tons and tons of the elements are different.>Patterns = mastercraft quality>chaos = uninspired shitI would actually argue that this is close to the truth since it overlaps with it, but is off the mark. Rather than patterns that makes mastercraft quality, it's consistency. If the art style/rules are consistent is when it shows quality.>>97186041Yeah but it demonstrates the point. You could quickly turn that flaw into a bonus if all you did was play a loud crunch sound and shake the screen + some motion blur from the explosion when you walked into something and trigger the "fly into space" animation, and people would literally cream their pants at how good the mech feels.>Despite that Armored Core 6 is really goodAgreed. I'm definitely enjoying my time with it.
>>97187998Honestly that alone feels like a condemnation in of itself. If it were really good I'd think people would be more talkative about it. Not like Macross is really that niche or anything.
>>97188096You should fear being gay and wrong. Mechs are anthropomorphic. They need to have some kind of non-conventional element like legs or a head or hands. Heavy object isn't mecha. They're literally just tanks.>I'll just say that I consider mecha to be giant You just said votoms isn't mecha and you're gay and wrong.>if all you did was play a loud crunch sound and shake the screen + some motion blur from the explosion No, that's actually going to lead to players asking "why does the game keep shaking the screen and making loud noises and getting blurry?" because the cars are minuscule and hard to notice. You've shot out the other end and you think small immersive details should override everything else.
>>97187753
How about coloring? How do YOU paint your mechs? Are there ace customs?
>>97188461me personally or how it works in my setting?
>>97188523>>97188461well I'll talk setting because I don't have minis (unfortunately)My setting is mostly civilian monster hunters fighting monsters, although the military do use mechs as well but in combined warfare strategies (as regular vehicles and missiles can shut down mechs pretty easily if the pilots aren't above average). The civilian monster hunters are basically all Ace Customs, without the aces - the organizations benefit from their pilots having good branding, so they incentivize their pilots to customize their mechs and paint livery on them based on their own tastes and aesthetics, so the pilots gain reputation individually and said reputation is tied to their organization. There are mechanical artisans that specialize painting, vanity, physical modifications on parts and more (which is the excuse I give my players to allow a variety of mech designs regardless of parts equipped), which means there's a massive culture of mecha fancy, both for combat but also for entertainment (as mechs are used in a variety of fields besides combat). Each region has a dominant aesthetic for the average mecha pilot, but there's tons of variation; A war that occurred a few years ago kind of shuffled people around worldwide, so there's a bit of everything everywhere. Not all pilots want to play doll though, and it's perfectly fine to just buy your parts and use them the way they are, but there will probably be SOMETHING your average pilot will want to change.Military mechs are usually standardized with their paint and design, and commanders have small markings for the sake of it. Military mechs are MUCH more powerful than your average civilian monster hunting mech though (as in, they actually use live AP ammo and have access to good transport and sensors), so if you see 3-4 greyish/greenish mechs using practically the same parts and equipment, you fucking run.
>>97188258>You just said votoms isn't mecha and you're gay and wrong.Votoms are power armor. Change my mind.>No, that's actually going to lead to players asking "why does the game keep shaking the screen and making loud noises and getting blurry?" because the cars are minuscule and hard to notice.They're not THAT small. That's a genuinely retarded take on the subject.
>>97159021>TR-6 Hazel II for a split secondI'm doing it, I'm making the bearded millennial with glasses face.
>>97168290>DROP THE BASE BASE BASE BASE BASE BASE BASE
>>97187787G Reco was Tomino at his most derangedthere were parts I did like, a lot of the designs are great, but the story is so fucking retarded.G Arcane never transforms.
>>97188637Interesting flip to how usually the ace customs are above the military grade stuff. The way you describe your player aces makes me think of how a race car wouldn't out do a tank but might be outfitted to also handle fighting off pests.
>>97189406Military grade stuff is still usually more powerful because civilians have tons of restrictions (more accurately, parts/weapons manufacturers selling to civilians do) due to a treaty filled with bullshit - like only being allowed subsonic ammo using materials like copper and zinc. They do have their strong points and some of the most expensive stuff is still absurdly powerful. The top ranking monster hunters are absolutely demolishing an entire military base solo.Basically you can find a civilian fighting monsters with a mazinger rip off, firing (literal) magic beams, but they still get oneshotted by a military mech wielding a AP battle rifle.The military doesn't mind the civilians because they don't want to spend their manpower fighting the monsters anyways, so the government opened this clause to allow civilian monster hunters legally, otherwise it would be happening anyways because the government can't oversee every single city in the post-apoc world, they have much bigger issues to deal with like the near extinction of their species and how the world is an absolute clusterfuck.
>>97188637How expensive are the mechas to buy and maintain? IRL it would be impossible for a mercenary to use a tank, even an old monkey model.>>97189973>Military grade stuff is still usually more powerful because civilians have tons of restrictions (more accurately, parts/weapons manufacturers selling to civilians do)Reminds me of the civilian knightmare frame gladiatorial fights in the Code Geass spin-offs.
>>97189973>The military doesn't mind the civilians because they don't want to spend their manpower fighting the monsters anyways, so the government opened this clause to allow civilian monster hunters legally, otherwise it would be happening anyways because the government can't oversee every single city in the post-apoc world, they have much bigger issues to deal with like the near extinction of their species and how the world is an absolute clusterfuck.I think you could get some ideas from the Japanese bear problem.Sure, the JGSDF have automatic rifles and tanks, but common sense and laws keeps them from running around the country with tanks and IFVs to kill bears and small caliber rifles meant to kill humans are ineffective against bears.Similarly, your monster hunters could use a different set of weapons that are effective against monsters but inefficiant against other mechas, and ammo could be tightly controlled by the government to keep them in check (IIRC hunters in Japan needs to keep their ammo in police stations and needs to report after using).
>>97189973>The top ranking monster hunters are absolutely demolishing an entire military base soloSo they have a treaty that deliberately limits their combat capabilities on the level of modern gun laws to keep them deliberately suppressed, but also some of them are so unbelievably strong anyway the military stands no chance against them? What does this power scale actually look like? Where's the middle ground between hunting with rimfire varmint rifles and dropping a thermobaric bomb?
>>97189995>How expensive are the mechas to buy and maintain?An entire mech (as in, not a single part) is as expensive as a middle class car. That's how widespread mechs are.Basically, the mechs movement system works on literal magic that basically results in a humanoid body. They have an internal frame that is moved by telekinesis using the pilot as a magic battery and subconscious body. Everything else is equivalent to our world in terms of tech. They use car batteries (kinda) for energy supply. They use kinetic weapons. Their heads have cameras and sensors equivalent to decent cameras but built to take impact. Their cockpits use 3D eye tracking monitors with normal joysticks and pedals. There's some fictional stuff but it's all reasonable.And because there's an entire industry of it, it's all just a bit affordable. None of the pilots buy their parts individually, their organizations separate an allowance for them to buy parts, ammo and weapons, and repair their mechs. The industry exists because this market lets them develop their tech legally while also being very lucrative, as the world is a shitshow filled with trillions of monsters and there's a bunch of things mechs can do beyond combat as well>>97190002That's essentially how it works. They still can use rifles and cannons even if their ammo is dogshit because that still hurts monsters just fine, but they're not taking out a tank>>97190016When I mean "top ranking" monster hunters I mean like 3-4 people per region at most wielding some crazy bullshit because they got extremely lucky with their money or circumstances. The vast majority of pilots would get their shit kicked in. Some crazy motherfucker with 30 drones strapping a bunch of IEDs could still cause some ruckus on a real military base. It's like that. Even your "above average" pilot is still dying in a single hit to a tank shell. And the military can absolutely field elite squadrons easily to eliminate "annoying" pilots if needs be
>>97188860>Votoms are power armor. Change my mind.If your limbs aren't in the suit's limbs then it's not power armor.
>>97190059
>>97190042So the concept is to play as some nerfed post gun-grab dips fighting monsters that the military is literally just too busy doing other important things to bother with? The absolute worst thing you can do for your setting is immediately establish that there's other, cooler, more capable guys doing more important stuff and they could easily destroy the players regardless of their level or ability.Are you prepared for the first question out of anyone's mouth to be "can we play a campaign as the military guys?"
>>97190042I agree with >>97190085Why not go for something like Xenoblade X, where there's no military and the players are part of a militia?
>>97190085>>97190168I'm at work right now so I wrote this in a bit of a hurry>There's nothing really stopping players from playing as military. >The military ironically gets way less action than monster hunters. There aren't many groups opposing or dealing with the major governments and everyone has enough issues on their own. Most military work is aiding government projects and dealing with small insurgent groups or special operations from rogue countries.>I did play Xenoblade X and it IS a bit like that, the players basically play as official militia. They don't directly answer to the government but the government does regulate them and give them access and clearance to operate without much issue. They also facilitate communication and offer jobs and contracts to organizations. Even the military offers jobs to them sometimes.>Player Characters are, by basic writing conventions, relevant enough to either be powerful or interesting on their own. On a Lv 1-20 scale, characters Lv.10 onwards are capable of facing the military (within reason) and players Lv.19-20 are the super motherfuckers I mentioned previously. And even then there are threats. I think you guys just had some incorrect assumptions. The player characters get in a huge variety of missions beyond monster hunting. There are guard duties, patrols, expeditions, searches, aiding research, spelunking, doing illegal shit for corpos, cartography, fighting important targets, pirates, rogue pilots, specific powerful monsters and entities and a lot more. Most of my players prefer playing as this civilian militia because it gives them a lot more freedom on character building. One of the PCs of my major campaign IS ex-military, and they quit because they wanted more action and freedom. It happens. If I want to GM a military unit I'll just write some Project Wingman-like plot and get to work.
>Military mechs are MUCH more powerful than your average civilian monster hunting mech though (as in, they actually use live AP ammo and have access to good transport and sensors), so if you see 3-4 greyish/greenish mechs using practically the same parts and equipment, you fucking run.>you can find a civilian fighting monsters with a mazinger rip off, firing (literal) magic beams, but they still get oneshotted by a military mech wielding a AP battle rifle>When I mean "top ranking" monster hunters I mean like 3-4 people per region at most wielding some crazy bullshit because they got extremely lucky with their money or circumstancesI don't want to just shoot you down because you've clearly put some work into this, but I don't get it. The part that confuses me is you haven't said what hunters use that's supposed to be on that power level. The military gets the "serious" mechs, the player starts with doodoo guns, so what's the crazy bullshit that beats up the military when a dude with a magic mazinger mech is still instantly superowned by a basic military machine?
>>97190405>>I did play Xenoblade X and it IS a bit like that, the players basically play as official militia.Just want to point that even in Xenoblade X where things are pretty dire access to Skells requires a lot of money (ie proof of great contribution to NLA and, to a degree, loyalty), a license, and I'm pretty sure the maintenance could only be done at NLA, so potential rogue would be severely limited by it.On the flip side, Skells were no civilian/monky models.>>97190572>I don't want to just shoot you down because you've clearly put some work into thisSame. Do you really need 3-4 guys per region that can wipe a military base?The closest comparisons I can think of Code Geass. The civilian models were way worse than military ones (eg one model has its power output reduced by 40% and the armor is equally reduced), the only way someone could do something against the army with a knightmare frame like this would be either being ridiculously good (like Marianne) or having some Geass (like Bismarck or Rolo).Even if you go by Armored Core standards, that's like having 3-4 irregulars/dominants per region.
>>97190405to expand a bit furtherthe reason I don't tend to GM military characters in my setting is because I made a whole Armored Core mecha building system that the military doesn't really use, but the monster hunters do. >"alright you guys are going to play a military unit!">"cool! when do we get to build and customize our mechs?">"You don't. Pick one out of these preset loadouts."goes a bit against the point>>97190572I said mazinger as an example but it was mostly a joke. There's a bit of magic bullshit in my setting but nothing too powerful. You can make a mazinger rip off but it's not beating a tank batallion.this might be a bit weird as an example but:Imagine the vast majority of civilians are flying jets equivalent to something like the F104 Starfighter or the Mirage III, and some of the decent pilots are flying F-5s or Su-17s. All of it with some regulations. The military by default is using an F/A 18 or an F-22. There are, however, some civilians that have enough money and connections to get something like a Morgan from Ace Combat, and there's only so much a random military base can do about that without busting out something like the Valkyrie from Macross from a more fortified base.>>97190658The code geass example is a bit better. Do consider these 3-4 irregulars tend to be very well known, and "attacking a military base" is the kind of shit that would ruin your career with most of your potential clients, so that rarely tends to happen. And the Military would absolutely bust their ass too to take them downI'm grateful for the patience from both of you.
>>97190675>goes a bit against the pointCounterpoint: Wanzers. In Front Mission the military were not wussy about letting their pilots cutomize their wanzers.But I understand wanting to avoid the strictness of military, that's why I suggested Xenoblade X.>Morgan from Ace CombatWhy don't the military have their own Morgans? If individuals, while rare, can manage to get their hands on one of these, the military, operating on a whole another level of budget and connections, should be able to get their own as well. Do they require materials harvested from rare, powerful monsters or something? If so, why don't the military go after those as well? Being able to make a Morgan when you're flying F/A-18 is quite a jump, the military would have divisions only to procure these materials.>so that rarely tends to happenThe problem is that it's something that should never happen, from the point of view of the government.If you believe in neorealism, then states are security maximizers and will reject a power balance where an individual possess military power that can threaten them.
>>97190855>Why doesn't the military have their own morgans?They do. I said that in the post (the valkyrie from macross but I guess that might have "flown" over). But they're expensive, just like how the only civilians capable of getting something like that are high rollers and the best of the best. The military isn't going to field every soldier with a superjet in a post war economy when the basic plane does the job against like 99% of their possible opponentsI do agree with your final point. Though I'd say that the government isn't that worried about those cases, because they know that if it does happen, it'll sort itself out eventuallyBut also, that's not even the most egregious example in my setting of what you're describing: here's a fucking wild one>Currently the setting is a post war semi post-apoc world after a war against an invading alien force that practically decimated 90% of the world's population and forced everyone together >During said war, the alien invaders had an insanely powerful class of super kaiju capable of wiping out entire countries on their own. Think Angels from EVA but on crack>The only way the planet survived is because a huge Super Robot showed up from nowhere that was also insanely powerful and could overpower said super kaiju>Said super robot was the blackest black project of one of the most powerful countries in the planet, and was powerful enough to subjugate the entire planet on its own>After killing all the Super Kaiju, it vanished for a while>Years pass, people figure out how to build mechs on their own loosely based on the tech of the super robot, and they find out that it's *still around* even after it's country of origin has been completely decimated and all of its leaders are goneThis means that everyone knows that there's a super robot capable of destroying the planet... just walking around every once in a while. No one knows who pilots it and it doesnt attack anyone. BUT IT'S AROUND. And people fucking hate it!
>>97190917>might have "flown" overFair. I thought it was an impossible metaphor.>But they're expensive, just like how the only civilians capable of getting something like that are high rollers and the best of the best.Expensive for individuals, even very wealthy ones, is cheap for the government.>The military isn't going to field every soldier with a superjet in a post war economy when the basic plane does the job against like 99% of their possible opponentsAgreed but in this case, if a couple individuals can field it per region, the military should have at least as many in that region and I'd wager they'd field them near the individuals, given they're the 1% threat.I'm fine with the rest of your setting, the only thing that bothers me are those super aces. They fell sort of out of place. I think it would be easier to accept them if, for example, most mechas were realistic types (eg wanzers) but these guys somehow got their hands on super mechas by hunting monster, as in not man-made.>super kaiju capable of wiping out entire countries on theirEl Millennium?>Said super robot was the blackest black project of one of the most powerful countries in the planet, and was powerful enough to subjugate the entire planet on its ownKeeping the SRW motif, it feels like they had their own Ingram Plissken.
>>97190917>>97190675>>97190405nigga you're at work how bout you stop being a bum ass mfer and get back to your JOBbroke ass niggaalso ain't you that furfag?
You are all AI. I am the only real poster.
>>97191072Apologize to my gf with big cockpit.
>>97191072Ice cream? I love ice cream!
>>97190675The way I interpreted it; the US military wouldn't send a flight of 4x F-15EX Strike Eagles to kill a population of feral hogs, the budget bitches would get their panties in such a twist that it may counter the rotational energy of the earth.Instead, the government will put out a bounty on hogs in the region and Cletus and Clyde will do some walmart AC-130 action out of a Cessna Skyhawk with AR's. It will cost the government 5% of what running the F-15s would and the result is acceptable; the monster population has been culled.
>>97191072I stand with SkyNet.
>>97191491Are you telling me the bean counters are right? Heresy.
>>97188096>I'll just say that I consider mecha to be giant (bigger than a city bus) mobile mechanical devices that are pilotedYour definition does manage to miss feather-less chicken-walker while including giant drone piloted remotely.My definition involve any vehicle capable of limbed locomotion carrying its operator and structurally capable of walking without him inside.many Iron man with AI suit end up mecha instead of exoskeleton, and I say fuck to the idiotic notion that if you need to pretend-move inside it make whatever into "exoskeleton" (which I define as structurally dependent on the operator)>Then this means war.I agree with this statement as the discussion is about mecha used in warfare.>Full Metal PanicFair warning: they slept on the license, then decades later underdelivered when they remembered it.>This is why normies hate it when "it's too predictable" who the killer is in a mystery movieThat's not "too much pattern" that's a pattern too simple.Think about how you'd solve your own example:Do you make it illogical and Plato's killer was actually a plucked chicken that crossed the road for no discernible reasons?Or do you make sure the killer isn't obvious by baiting your spectators in another direction before revealing the real pattern (which have to make sense)?>same 8 gymsThat's using the same pattern 8 times, it's not "too much pattern".More patterns would mean making each gym specialize in something differentGreater pattern mean specializing in something you've established there was 8 of. Predictable yes, but it's just a matter of execution.>it's consistencyConsistency IS how you call making sure all patterns are part of a greater one.So I stand my point and you cannot escape the universal pattern where I'm right.
>>97191491I think so too, and it's what I meant initially with the government basically not wanting to deal with the monsters to begin with. The world has a population crisis and the military doesn't have much personnel. They do have great equipment and money so if anything does need military force, they have it. If some random fucko shows up in a military base, there's probably a major base not too far away with the "fucko remover 9000". It's mostly a question of efficiency. They can't *completely avoid* incidents due to the circumstances of the world (there's not enough people in the military, there's a lot of unpopulated and remote areas), so they mostly just leave it at a reasonable take. Most of the military is stationed near populated capitals with the intent of protecting them since they're the biggest bastions of civilization. On the note of the monsters, they're immortal. The super kaiju died out but all the rest come back no matter what and people still haven't figured out why, so they're still all over the world. People have reclaimed like 25% of the planet as it is. The military going out of their way to deal with the monsters would be a *massive* waste of resources.Yes its a bit idealist, but it's not a very grim setting to begin with. Despite taking place post a major apocalypse, it's mostly a world about hope. It's a "we're adventurers with cool mechs and we fight monsters and corporations and rogue pilots" type of setting. There's a reason I'm using Pathfinder2e and not something more gritty.>>97190983>I think it would be [...] as in not man-made.I do *really* like the idea of mechs being built with monster parts, ala literally Monster Hunter. You're not that far off on how the top rankers get where they are. But basically they're LV.20+ charactersMechanically, most average pilots are like Lv. 2-5. Good pilots are level 6-12. Everyone that above are basically protagonists on their own right. And there are "Military NPCs" Lv.20+ as well
>>97192405So if the monsters are immortal, is the story going to be the ol' 'the real monsters are human' or are we going on a brontosaur punching adventure to try and figure out how to kill them for good?
>>97192533Second one. Everyone's fighting their asses off to find out why the monsters keep showing up no matter how many they kill, and they're up to put the best fucking fight they can muster, now that they figured out the punching robots. And they're fighting every fucking kind of monster you can imagine, it's a variety show. I'm a hack but not nearly close enough to do the first one. There aren't even humans in the setting to begin with. I won't elaborate further on that one to not lose any goodwill I have left
>>97192582See, when you put it like that my default assumption is anthro in robo punching cosmic horrors in a desperate bid to rage against the dying of the light. Honestly, kinda sucks that people default to furry hate when there's some good shit out there, especially with the characterization (and customization!) that comes with expanding beyond humans. Either way, hope you have fun with it anon <3
>>97192675Oh hey, someone reasonable. Thanks for going with me on my rambles.
>want to design intricate combat maps but my players could potentially go in like 3 different directions so I have to wait until they decide what to dofeels anxious man
>>97192725Looks very 3rd Gen Armored Core. That rifle even looks like a Karasawa. Neat.
>>97192886Make maps that you enjoy makingSave the unused ones for laterAlso holy fuck this is the most cancerous captcha I have seen all year
How many variants do mechs actually need? I've been refining my roster for a while now and I'm going back and forth on how many each different mech should haveAlso a couple of other more minor concerns, first off how many is too many? I've got a great list of names but it's difficult coming up with different designs to fit each one. And then also I have a second list of mechs used by a B faction, and their thing is supposed to be they're space people, but their mechs are all spider walkers and I guess I'm trying to retroactively justify it
>>97193014what game or IP?
>>97193014>How many variants do mechs actually needThis question's kind of useless without context. Are you making a quick play boardgame where the objective is to get dudes on the table ASAP, a wargame where people can take time to ponder their list, or an RPG where the mech's characteristics affect what the players can do with their environment?
>>97191942>piloted remotelyWhat's wrong with Robot Alchemic Drive?>My definition involve any vehicle capable of limbed locomotion carrying its operator and structurally capable of walking without him inside.>walkingBEHOLD! A MAN!For your spoiler, I'd say that that turns more into cyborg then actual Mecha. I guarantee that if you ask most people about mecha, they'll throw in a qualifier about the large size. That's why I think it HAS to be large, and I'm willing to kill the few exceptions on the way to that.>I agree with this statement as the discussion is about mecha used in warfare.Everything, even consumer as non-profit things, are used in warfare via strengthening economy and GDP which directly influences war.>Fair warning: they slept on the license, then decades later underdelivered when they remembered it.Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I'm a strong advocate in my older age that the maximum any series should be is 50 episodes, and ideally should only be 8-24. Length just increases the odds of jumping the shark.>That's not "too much pattern" that's a pattern too simple.I don't think there is a meaningful difference between the two. For example, in your murder scenario, let's say I include all of those elements, but it's still "too predictable" because the story still follows all patterns to a T, including meta-patterns, which means the audience either sees through the bait, or sees the bait and recognizes it as such and latches onto the only other possibility with the context that the mystery story SHOULD have a solvable and identifiable criminal instead of the more likely realistic situation of a random mugging gone wrong. Why wouldn't the audience love that? They have patterns and can clap like seals at them. What gives here?>That's using the same pattern 8 times, it's not "too much pattern">8 times>Not too much????>Consistency IS how you call making sure all patterns are part of a greater one.But you actually are agreeing with me here
>>97192725Gosh darn it, you got my autism going from all the things you could do in this setting. Different species are going to go down different mech 'evolutionary' branches and focus on what has helped them survive as pre-mecha beings; grazing herbivores may focus on top-tier optics and speed, whereas ruminates make absurdly reliable and efficient parts, or panthera may have aggressive frames focused on stealth.If you do end up using the monster hunter idea, it would be interesting to have social disdain for hunters that fuse their tools with the flesh of the enemy - your frame may be a better killer, but the others are concerned with what you're going to kill next. Since the monsters are immortal, it would be cool from an rp perspective if you had to carefully balance what monster parts you use, lest they have enough mass to regrow. That being said, it would be quite tedious for the gm.
>>97192582>SpoilerYou should look up Monsterpunk. It's not very mecha, but I think you'd enjoy it nontheless.
Are there any mecha-musume TTRPG's? I'd love to have something to craft up for some WAGA YAIBA type bullshit.
>>97193094My own>>97193096More RPG oriented. I've been thinking about it recently and a lot of the different variants I had written down could be reduced down to upgrades players can apply to the units but at the same time I feel like that can strip away what is making each mech different to begin with, you know?
>>97190675>There's a bit of magic bullshit in my setting but nothing too powerful. You can make a mazinger rip off but it's not beating a tank batallionI can't imagine it with the information you've given. I don't know what a high level hunter is supposed to get access to that makes them stronger than the military mechs while also under weapons laws that restrict them from being stronger than military mechs. >without busting out something like the Valkyrie from Macross from a more fortified baseThis just loops back around. The players start on the bottom of the power scale, become stronger, and end up... still firmly under the boot of the government, no questions asked. It's not even close. Leveling up is just selecting how much the military has to send out to obliterate you with no escape from Samsara.>"alright you guys are going to play a military unit!">"cool! when do we get to build and customize our mechs?">"You don't. Pick one out of these preset loadouts."I mean does it matter when they're all way better? Is it fun to come up with a custom build that gets immediately killed by a basic mech with gun? What's the combination of sick magic powers and looted parts that makes up for "get oneshotted by a military mech wielding a AP battle rifle"?This is just reminding me of Lancer doing "yeah actually spaceships are like 10 billion times as strong and more important and if a real war happened everyone would stop bothering with lancers". It deliberately minimizes the players importance in the world, which is what they wanted because they specifically didn't want players to be able to upset the setting.
>>97193912>Is it fun to come up with a custom build that gets immediately killed by a basic mech with gun?You're not fighting the *military* for 99% of the game unless your player group is really fucking stupid. Mechs can take hits from monsters and other non-military mechs just fine. In fact pilots get on kerfuffles with each other both for sport and to compete for jobs all the time. There's no reason to fight the military.>I don't know what [...] laws that restrict them from being stronger than military mechs. If someone has that much renown, they have connections.I think you missed most of my posts but basically, no, the military is not unbeatable, but they are reasonably strong enough that most hunters won't bother fighting them. Because. There's no reason to fight them. If the government gets uppity about you and you don't want to kill a billion soldiers, just hide. Go anywhere else like every other pirate or rogue pilot that doesn't want to deal with the government. Most of the world is desolate and inhabited; You can just ignore the government and they'll stop giving a shit eventually. If you're really, really, dumb, you COULD go for a scrap run on a military base but you'd be asking for so much trouble for not enough wife-changing money.Yes I don't like how Lancer does worldbuilding too but I didn't do anything like that. One guy being able to take on the entire military, and the military being a massive boot that can crush everyone under are both things that don't happen because it would be a waste of time, resources, money and life for both sides if they tried. Rogue pilots have a LOT more money to make from annoying corporations.>>97193577>>97193585The "using parts from monsters" thing doesn't happen that often but it's a plot point in my campaign. One of the corporations is trying to develop a system that uses a monster's body and frame to make beefed up mechs and it's fucking things around, and one of the player's character is involved.
>>97193730GURPS had an article on it in one of the Pyramid issues.
>>97193813>that can strip away what is making each mech different to begin withIf you're letting people build freely, you might as well differentiate the frame by position and size of upgrade slots, hardpoints for hanging shit off them, etc. Toss in a couple of weird ones where they have a unique feature the frame is built around and can't be added as an upgrade.
>>97194008I still don't know what the players are supposed to get access to other than the basic limited weapons. What kind of abilities do players have? It's fine if they can't have AP ammo but they get other options instead.
>>97186939CGI looks so fucking bad
>>97190983>>97192405Turn the monsters into robots.
>>97195358I usually dislike CG in anime, but I have a certain degree of tolerance for it in /m/ stuff as long as the quality isn't total shit.
>>97157742Man, Linebarrels was good. I swear this artist has yet to really fuck up with anything he does, although he mostly seems content to licensed tie-ins these days between his Ultraman and Batman stuff.
>>97195763I feel like mecha is one of those things that can look good in any style of CGI, whether it be low poly graphics, 6th gen graphics, hollywood bayformer graphics, you name it. Usually its the people that don't integrate well with the mecha, having standard 2D anime characters can look weird next to the mecha, but even worse than that is when the characters are done in the same CGI style of the mecha. Its hard to find that right balance.
>>97179868Just like how no-one hates nerds more than other nerds
>>97195203just because they have some regulations on their weaponry and ammo doesn't mean they can't use anything. To give an example, here are the weapons the main party in my campaign have in their inventory, garage or equipped>Rifle>Sword>Shield>Sniper Rifle>Grenade Launcher>Gas Grenade Launcher>Revolver>Striking Gloves>Autocannon>Rocket Launcher>Greatsword>Bow>Missile Launchers>Heavy machine guns>Great Mace>Heavy Rocket Launcher>Repeater RifleAnd there's tons of stuff available in the shop.The mechs are also quite agile and can strike hard when needed. There are a shit ton of feats and maneuvers they use in combat (mostly coming from pathfinder2e)"not being able to use AP ammo" is actually a miniscule restriction. There are other worse ones.>>97195523They already fight other players in VR skirmishes and to scare them off from contracts, and thanks to what I mentioned about artisans and mecha customization, they have seen a variety of bullshit at this point
>>97160270Come to think of it, did FMP ever actually get an ending? I got as far as the heroine getting kidnapped and the main char getting his final upgrade suit, but not so far as the sniper getting killed.Which was the style at the time.
Anyone play Ember: Obsidian Protocol?
>>97197633So we'll make mecha for the purposes of having a rape machine?... actually that's brilliant
>>97196734It already has a sequel where Sousuke & Kaname are married & have two kids, while Tessa is still single.They named their daughter Nami.
>>97197633>non-humanoid machines can't fuckWhat is this babby degeneracy?
>>97197633coward
>>97182276>anon spams about how realistic "heavy object" is about "revolutionizing warfare">look up what heavy object is>pictures of anons mom>it's a giant machine with way too many guns pointed in every direction>the design that was tried in every kind of application and was found in all cases to be instantly obsolete compared to missiles or bombs and wasteful and pointless compared to having about two with significantly different use caseslol
>>97169705>Drone>PilotPick one
HP means health points. HP can also mean horsepower. Of course mechs don't use HP but would it be a fun idea to give it a different name like Heavy power or something and refer to HP as if it could be health points or horse power interchangeably? Or does it make too little sense to even make the comparison?
>>97196052I thought you were going for an alternate power system where the players would have like, hand made gear or enormous hunting weapons or magic or as the other guy suggested, looted monster parts into swords or something like MH, but they're just using cucked versions of conventional arms? They have heavy rocket launchers but with limited payloads or something for what purpose? You're literally just piloting shittier mechs with shittier guns? This is a local lord setting. A pointless hard cap on player power levels so that the epic combined arms guys with their grey realism mechs are untouchable and actively defended by the constructs of the setting, with a fiat they can call in if they ever got owned. It's like a city besieged by monsters with town guards that go up to level thirty. I don't think there's anything about this that wouldn't sound better if you either smoothed out the power level so the monsters aren't just a nuisance for scrubs with shit gear and added a little tension (if we can't stop them, who will? Oh yeah the military would own them lol), or if you at least made the players mystical, heroic, using bizarre abilities and went full scifi MH or dragons dogma. The players don't have to be the strongest, but you need a unique hook with lots to work with to at least not come off as weaker versions of the NPCs.
>>97200545HP means, "Hit Points," because the term was originally used in naval wargames, to refer to how many, "hits," a section of a ship could take.
>>97200545>HP means health pointsI cannot recall a single game that actually uses Health Points as a term.
>>97200625look man you're ignoring a lot of what I'm saying for the sake of implying that my setting is something that it is not, while this whole part is not even the focus point. I don't really know what to tell you. You're basically saying that just because the average joe can't beat a military base that it's a cucked gameplay experience, so like, sure I guess. The unique hook is that players get to make somewhat down to earth characters that rise to renown through experience and skill and get into cool missions and adventures with their cool robots. That's it. You don't need to be able to destroy the entire french army at Lv.1 to be cool.
>>97200057Neat. Anyone reading Hero Organization? The authors feel like they're really trying to get that sweet toy money with this one.
>>97202489I am but I really don't care about the story that much
>>97202498It's not bad... but it sort of feels like they're moving things along too quickly so you don't really get to know anybody. I guess they're scared they're gonna get cancelled in the questionnaires at any moment.There's probably going to be some twist that the Starbeasts are man made or something at some point as well.
>>97193563>Robot Alchemic DriveBy /m/ standard it's fully acceptable, just another mechanized vehicles, but it's not mecha by in a useful terminology.>BEHOLD! A MAN!Unless it is capable of crossing obstacles without using its tracks, it fails at the "limbed locomotion" criteria.If it is capable of that, I have no problem with a mecha that use wheels/tracks/flight most of the time.>Everything [...] influences warI fear that by having this discussion we are (accidentally?) cooperating for mutual understanding & profit.>I'm a strong advocate in my older age that the maximum any series should be is 50 episodes, and ideally should only be 8-24In my old book what matter is for stories to be started with an ending in mind. Episodic stuff is a distinct matter.>but it's still "too predictable" because the story still follows all patterns to a T, including meta-patternsYour argument break here because "following to a T" mean following an already known pattern that was overused/explained until it became "simple". No different from "reusing simple patterns" versus "creating a complex pattern" (expected to be complex for you or your public at least).>instead of the more likely realistic situation of a random mugging gone wrong. Why wouldn't the audience love that?Are you defending baiting with a plot then finish it with "Oops nevermind it doesn't make sense, it's probably a random mugging"?That's literally what people hate most, at best that's parody IF you have set up patterns needed to make it parody.If the murder-sleuth story is about clearing "obvious murderer" and proving it was a random mugging, then that's making the bigger complex pattern people watch those shows for.>????You cannot appreciate anything that appear 8 times or more? I need to tell you about octet & bits.>But you actually are agreeing with me hereMore like I'm right and you accidentally came to the logical conclusion of all my points, despite arguing against them.
Do you use AI art on your games? Why would you not?
>>97111856I once ran a campaign like that. >The main premise was that a huge force of pirates starts harassing a crucial world without any reason or clear goal.>Turns out they are Union false flag>As players dig deeper, they learn that Galsim is a sham. It's been giving inaccurate predictions for centuries.>But Union leadership is so indoctrinated into the idea of it being always right they start to "fix" its mistakes by stirring shit in real world to match the simulation.>Players join a military coup and storm Mars facility to switch off the simulation>Destroying the minds causes a new Age of Strife style dark age
>>97203843shoo ai slopper
>>97200405That anon you're talking about here, you're basically completely rehashing what I said a little later than that post about fighting a ghost. I only wanted a mecha work that demonstrated dominance and superiority. I never wanted literal realism, and if I used the word realism before, it's because I think you're sniffing farts if you insist on verismilitude instead of just using realism.
>>97203145>but it's not mecha by in a useful terminology.Why not?>it fails at the "limbed locomotion" criteria.That's literally the point of why I bring it up. That's a mecha build from Armored Core 6. Your definition would have to bite a bullet and say this well known mecha game can be turned into not-mecha just by swapping the leg parts for the tracks parts.>what matter is for stories to be started with an ending in mindI'm fine with it meandering a bit, but it needs to end before it gets silly.>Your argument break here becauseNo, none of what you just said here means any of that. None of that logically follows. Something does not become "simple" because you understand it, and no one said a pattern was over explained or overused in that example. You're inserting massive assumptions that are not at all connected to each other.>That's literally what people hate mosAgain, that's why I brought it up. It follows real life patterns that people can recognize, that people can be accused of a false crime when it turned out it was a random mugging. Yet people hate that, despite it following your criteria of "people love patterns." So why do people hate that?>You cannot appreciate anything that appear 8 times or more?I literally just got done telling you about a real life example of people specifically hating a pattern that appeared 8 times and will appear more. Why are you talking like this doesn't affect you or what you're saying?>More like I'm rightYour statement just got done saying that Consistency is the tool to make patterns, and people love consistency. That would mean that any perception you're having about people just simply loving patterns (despite the patterns I'm bringing up to show they actually will often hate it just as much) would naturally be better explained by consistency instead.
>>97193014>How many variants do mechs actually need? I've been refining my roster for a while now and I'm going back and forth on how many each different mech should have.There's no hard and fast rule, obviously... But I'd say it only makes sense that the more mass-produced the mech is, the more variants it should have. If you're talking about mechs used by the players, it would be good to have at least as many variants as there are players. (If they all use the same base model of mech, I mean.)There's also the question of _categories_ of variants. Like, there can be variants for specific environments/conditions AND variants for different missions. If you have variants for ground, air, space, underwater, desert, and cold climates AND you have variants for infantry, recon, heavy firepower, sniper, artillery, and electronic warfare, well... that could be as many as 36 variants right there.>Also a couple of other more minor concerns, first off how many is too many? Variants or base mecha?>I've got a great list of namesI know that feel! I love coming up with names
>>97191942>My definition involve any vehicle capable of limbed locomotion carrying its operator and structurally capable of walking without him inside.So M.Lovers are not mecha...?
>>97195358>CGI looks so fucking badFor characters, it ssssssssssucksssssssBut it's perfectly fine for mecha.
>>97203843>Do you use AI art on your games? Why would you not?Don't call that synthetic dogshit "art," slop-drinker
>>97206351Also not mecha, apparently
>>97206351>>97206436Not mecha, they say
>>97202424>look man you're ignoring a lot of what I'm saying for the sake of implying that my setting is something that it is notI can only react to what you put out there. It's not like you've expressed anything that sounds novel or unique for the players. You describe them in the vaguest terms. There's a treaty that means players get firearms and mechs that suck compared to even the most basic of military gear for ???? reason. You get to play the exciting adventures of some dudes who are expressly restricted and restrained while risking their lives to fight monsters for rewards, but the rewards are also explicitly diminished and downplayed and have a permanent ceiling over them. The military even has elites and forces of tanks that you've never described in any capacity or worldbuilding beyond their ability to stomp down hunters.This is something I expect to hear from a bad game of warhammer fantasy roleplay.>you play as adventurers, and you hunt monsters!>the local lords men in full harness could effortlessly destroy them, but they're doing other, more important stuff>you're not allowed full harness and pollaxes as well, only they can have them. You have leather armor and copper weapons.>if you act up and rock the boat the local lord will order his knights on barded horses to destroy you all, such hubris for mere monster hunters!
>>97206628yeah he basically spouted a bunch of bullshit that barely sounds coherent together, and all of it adds up into something that kind of sucks
>>97206628>All you did was describe [players start a level 1] and then they get [to level 20] and there are [progression elements in between].>How does that sound any good!?!?!?I'm not even that anon, but are you retarded?
>>97206628I'll try doing a lightning round to clear things up.>There was a war against alien monsters where 90% of the planet's population died and everyone entered "crisis management" mode>There was a colossal super-robot mech and it managed to fight back enough to avoid everyone's extinction>After the war, people fussed around about the supermech and figured out a semi-magical control system that could let them build smaller, simpler mechs easily and with affordable materials and technology>It's years later, there are still monsters around (not just the aliens but also regular monsters that inhabit the world)>Because of the low population, the military isn't interest in fighting monsters and the government agrees, setting them up near populated capitals to defend them if needs be>The government issues a treaty that legalizes civilian ownership of combat mechs (so there's interest in the market for mecha development and so the people have some way to fight back against the monsters without the need for military involvement every single time) as long as they meet certain regulations, which lets them fight monsters on equal terms, but make it difficult for the average joe to fight the military (because doing that would be extremely fucking stupid)>There are now thousands of civilian organizations of "monster hunters" fighting monsters, machines and everything else all around the world and exploring the post-apocalyptic world with cool mechs doing contracts for corporations, organizations, and even the military and the government for money, glory, fame, wanderlust or revenge (insert TTRPG "create your hero!" here)>The vast majority of people have average mechs that can take care of the monsters just fine but are in a disadvantage against the military. There are SOME really powerful pilots with connections, skill and money to have much more powerful outlier mechs that do make them more powerful than the average military mech, but they are outliers.that's it.
Vibe check for my system’s damage mechanics. >damage is split into 2 types - physical and energy>physical damage reduction is based on armor quality(DR1, 2, 3 and sometimes 4)>automatic weapons deal d4 and d6 damage and can deal 21d4 in a single attack>single fire guns and melee weapons tend to deal 1 or 2 d8/10/12 damage>armor subtracts 1/2/3/4 from EVERY dice thrown>automatic weapons have much higher damage potential on completely unarmored targets(“standard” armor is 2), but gets fucked dramatically more against heavy armor>energy shields can be any frequency(die size) you want, and have a battery life of X amount of dice>energy shields affect ALL energy based attacks >energy shields halve damage of all energy-based damage dice as long as the battery holds>energy shields that have a matching frequency to the attack(d8 for example) instead negates the damageOther traits to my damage system>dealing high damage in an attack triggers critical damage, which potentially partially or completely destroys several different parts(legs, either arm, head, weapon held in hand, back accessory)>shields are used to ACTIVELY block attacks, rather than passively increase chance to dodge attacks>shields have their own HP and take all damage if used to block>you can actively block with your held weapon or hand, but they can break at any time unlike a shield, and guns and hands only reduce damage to you by 50%>melee attacks have a bonus flat number attached to them(example: 1d6+2)>the bonus number is damage that isn’t reduced by armor>melee attacks also have an automatic level of advantage that makes them more accurate
>>97212151Seems reasonable but I'm not seeing anything here that really informs why a player wouldn't just pick the highest quality armor they can afford. Range intervals and accuracy also change quite a bit because 21d4 might be a bunch of pebbles but you're going to at least plink them, whereas a d8 is going to be 4 or less half the time anyways. What's your general level of HP? How many turns of combat do you expect it to take to resolve the average encounter?The energy system might be too cute, I like the resonance frequency as a concept but I can see situations like the party each choosing a different number then hunkering down behind each other as cover depending on what's shooting at them.
>>97212151There’s also explosive damage>counts as physical damage>characteristically has higher sized flat bonuses(for example, 3d10+8)>explosions also have a radius equal in size to the amount of damage dice it deals(in this example, epicenter space+3 spaces)>the flat damage only affects targets at the epicenter, and the damage is reduced by 1 damage did for every space away from the epicenter the target isFate>outside of mech combat, pilots “HP” is called fate>fate is reduced by fucking up and getting hurt outside of your mech>losing all fate means your pilot is unable to participate in mech combat, and has to be replace by a crewmate that doesn’t have any bonuses to anything if the player wants to participate >fate points can also be used in mech combat to gain advantage on attacks or second chances to dodge attacks>fate USUALLY can’t be directly targeted by enemies but can be damaged if a mech has broken parts>very rarely can enemies target fate specifically>losing all fate in mech combat results in character death as the mech explodes or the pilot has a heart attack or something
>>97212174>why not pick the highest quality armor all the timePrice is one factor, but mech capabilities is another. The frame of a mech can only hold so much weight. Each component of your mech has weight(legs, arms, head, certain back components, certain larger weapons). Quality 3 and especially 4 armor is really heavy so you have to do a balancing act of taking lighter(and weaker) components or a frame that has a higher weight capacity(at the cost of other traits like energy capacity). The system is hopefully on the more fatal side with people dying in a couple attacks or even 1 really unlucky one if you aren’t equipped properly. Average HP is in the 20s, with gimmicky lightweight mechs having as low as 15, and the higher quality mechs being in the 50sI wanted to make sure that mech customization and the human pilots inside the mech mattered to the players. Campaigns and missions are heavily designed around “human pilots find information on foot and THEN fight in their mechs”. And not having the information to take the right equipment that counters the enemy and avoids getting countered can make an easy fight into a full party death. So I’d 100% support the concept of the party hiding behind the one guy with a matching shield frequency to all the enemies guns
And for my last post on the night I’m gonna share some weapons..50cal machine pistol >used for context. The mechs are about 15 feet tall and .50 cal is the equivalent of the smallest and least damaging die sizeI designed all the “standard” representatives of each weapon type, and then I had fun coming up with the weaker versions of those weapons for cheap players and weak enemies. All with some flavor text.Beam Soaker>named after the way most of the energy from its blasts bounce off of and disperse against most hard surfaces like a water gunJackhammer rifle>Sounds more like a jackhammer than a gun. Has the range and effectiveness of a jackhammer tooHeat plug>deals the same damage as a fist, but with the advantage of not risking damage to your limb and can be stored on your mech at no cost.>needs to be stored near an exhaust pipe to absorb enough heat to be effective>ideal exhaust pipe is located near the ass of the mech>most pilots choose to risk the damage to their hands rather than pull the plug out of their assAnd if anyone has other fun concepts for weapons I’d love to hear them. Here’s just a few of the more unorthodox onesMega magnum >practically a 1 hit kill energy pistol>only 1 shot and also short circuits any mech within a 2 space radiusSaw rifle>shoots saws at people. Low damage, lower accuracy, higher chance to destroy mech partsBlunderbus>a shotgun that more “points an explosion in a direction” rather than actually shooting any projectile
>>97205413>Why not?Mecha is more typically reserved for piloted stuff on /m/.>Your definition would have to bite a bullet and say this well known mecha game can be turned into not-mechaYou missed my point.My definition have no problem with tracks system complex enough to perform limbed locomotion, ever so slightly.That aside, AC6 using non-limbed tracks part let you play with TANKS, while remaining a mecha game.I'll grab your bullets with my teeth and spit em back anytime.>Something does not become "simple" because you understand it...except it does? It's literally the only REAL metric between simple & complex, or why we say "it's simple to me" and so on.>Again, that's why I brought it up>despite it following your criteria of "people love patterns." So why do people hate that?Because your example does NOT follow what I have said in any way.Me: Murder sleuth investigation pattern is one big, complex pattern, even if the story is to clear the "obvious murderer" and show it was a mugging gone wrong.You: Murder sleuth investigation pattern start, get complex, then stop, unfinished. A new distinct random mugging pattern is brought out of nowhere.>Why are you talking like this doesn't affect you or what you're saying?From my point of view you misunderstand to the point of putting words in my mouth.You literally implied a "game that make you fight 8 enemy can't be good" when it's just the average vidya mooks.And if we are talking about BOSS-quality enemy, 8 is also not unusual.As I said lazy 8 identical patterns may be boring: YESBut 8 distinct pattern, built as part of a greater pattern where each symbolically represent 8 whatever, is one usually interesting pattern.>Your statement just got done saying that Consistency is the tool to make patterns,Something is consistent BECAUSE its component (themselves patterns) were worked into a bigger pattern.That's 100% my point.Inconsistency is when patterns don't link up nicely/at all.
You can test my definition all you want, but it will still be better than /m/ average "mecha = mechanized whatever" and first you need to understand it."any vehicle capable of limbed locomotion carrying its operator and structurally capable of walking without him inside."At the time my goal just to distinguish it explicitly from Exoskeleton (can't hold itself without the operator) or Power armor (worn).And as I said it ended up making Iron man suit mecha for those capable of walking on their own while carrying the operator and Dr. Octopus technically a cyborg given the level of bio-integration, but if the tentacles were just a backpack, that backpack would be a mecha>>97206351Your pictured example would in fact be capable of limbed locomotion, therefor mecha.It doesn't matter if a mecha is also capable of flight.>>97206436Same as above, tentacle-arms allow it to lift itself and perform limbed locomotion if it wants to.Let's imagine an hypothetical stupid case: Imagine a vehicle that look 100% humanoids, with mobile part even....except that somehow what move is so stupidly made it is functionally speaking incapable of limbed locomotion (an achievement in itself) and it only moves around by flight.It's "still /m/" by their standard but by any good terminology it's just a flying vehicle.>>97206445It's vacuum-capable and operating in 0/low gravity, the arms alone make it capable of limbed locomotionThe legs were not for show tho, they were part of Gundam's AMBAC justification for MS fuel efficiency.pic game is "Intrusion 2" for those wondering.
>>97213426>Mecha is more typically reserved for piloted stuff on /m/.But what makes the term useful vs not useful and by what standard?>My definition have no problem with tracks systemIt does. You're now bending it arbitrarily to make this wiggle room. You made a cringe line about catching the bullet, but you just tried side-stepping it by adding new conditionals, which means you did not bite any bullet here.>...except it does?It doesn't whatsoever. I fully understand my tax laws, and tax laws are incredibly complicated on purpose. Simple vs Complex is not dependent on subjective perception. It's based on how many systems/rules/things are overlapping each other.>Because your example does NOT follow what I have said in any way.Except it does. The pattern I mentioned with the random mugging pattern is not brought out of nowhere, that's a 1:1 equivalent with real life, which is a very obvious and distinct pattern. Yet people would hate this story despite it following a pattern.>you misunderstand to the point of putting words in my mouth.No, you're just comically having an almost entirely separate argument. You have stated people like patterns. I have pointed out that there are tons of patterns that people notice and then hate, giving an example of how people hated that Pokémon kept following the patterns.Everything you just stated in your post has nothing to do with anything here. Nobody implied anything about "fighting 8 enemies = bad," and you're borderline schizoposting at this point. I'm just stating that people have noticed this pattern and there is a large group that actively rejected/hated it, which undermines this idea you have that patterns = liked.
>>97213426>>97213429>Something is consistent BECAUSE its component (themselves patterns) were worked into a bigger pattern.Except you can have consistency without patterns is the problem with this idea. Pokémon Red/Blue didn't have patterns as it was the first game and just sort of did whatever, but kept a logical coherence with the rest of the game. That's why your point is without merit.>You can test my definition all you wantYour definition has already fallen apart at the first sign of a non-standard mech design that you had to wiggle away from.>Your pictured example would in fact be capable of limbed locomotion>...except that somehow what move is so stupidly made it is functionally speaking incapable of limbed locomotion (an achievement in itself) and it only moves around by flight.If what youre saying is the basis of your definition, this is even more retarded than I thought. Your definition of what is and isn't mecha changes depending on the location. If you create a Gundam, but then put it onto a planet where it stops being capable of walking due to intense gravity crushing its legs, it stop being a mecha. Whereas if you take your example mecha that is actually incapable of limbed locomotion and put it on an astroid where it can start monkey-walking, it becomes a mecha.And the worst part is that because Mecha are sci-fi, they are VERY OFTEN in space! This isn't even an edge case for the definition, it is one of the primary arenas for where mecha thrive in! How do you even justify this?
