Gestalt is something I crave in an RPG. I like mixing and matching two (or three) different classes into something wild and possibly game breaking.I know a lot of DnD games have fan rules for it, and pointbuy can allow any character build potentially, but are there any games that offically take the class-system and let you get weird with it? Multiclassing isn't quite what I'm looking for, because you're always going to be sacrificing your end game potential. Fantasy or Sci-Fi or whatever.Also I guess post your cool gestalt ideas.
>>97113200>I know a lot of DnD games have fan rules for it,A lot of DnD games have actual rules for it. 2e I know has multi-classing function that way for non-humans, the term Gestalt comes from the variant rule from 3.5, and 4e has Hybrid rules. More versions of DnD have this sort of thing than not.
>>971132764e Hybrids are neat, though you still give up stuff for it, kinda like an upfront multiclass limitation. I forgot 3.5e had it as a variant.
>>97113314I tried 3.5 gestalt and it was honestly really quite cool, though I had very advanced players, it would possibly quite painful to run with newbies due to complexity and the ivory tower design.
>>97113200Shadow of the Demon Lord and Shadow of the Weird Wizard are both sort of based around this.
>>97113200Through the Breach gives you Pursuits, which is different from classes in that there's no penalty for changing them between games, and switching is often encouraged depending on where you want to take your character. The only thing that changes is the starting equipment for your character, what pursuit-specific power they get during the session, and what skills they can increase if they level up. Otherwise, you can stay along your current Pursuit's path or switch between them as much as you like. You even retain perks from paths that you've stepped off of. So you could do things like play a hard-working laborer that discovered a magic book and started trying to learn magic, or a scholarly lawyer that starts becoming a crime boss, or to get weirder a common thug that starts becoming a ghoulish cannibal to survive.
>>97113200What are your cool gestalt ideas, OP?
Shadow of the Weird Wizard would be an ideal pick for this (and Shadow of the Demon Lord, but SotWW is stronger for this aspect). You get a Novice "Path" at level 1 which is a broad archetype (Fighter, Mage, Priest, or Rogue). At 3 you get an Expert which is more specialised and flavourful than a Novice is, and these are more like traditional classes in theme and mechanics (Wizard, Berserker, Assassin, Paladin, Commander, etc). There are 42 of those in core. Then at 7 you get a Master Path which is narrower again but more powerful within that niche, and kinda take the sort of thematic space a prestige class in D&D would. 120 of these and you've got marital Paths dedicated to specific weapons and fighting styles, like the Dragon Fist, Fencer, or Cavalier. Paths that are picked by the gods to serve them such as Herald of the Dawn, Flagellent of Want, or Dragonite. Paths that master magical traditions like Chronomancer, Oneiromancer, or Battle Mage. Plus a selection of stranger things still like Bearer of the Black Blade, Sanguinist, or HorologistThere are no restrictions about what you can choose. Fighter > Veteran > Battle Master is as valid a pick as Mage > Jester > Giant Killer. SotWW is built to allow any combination you want and for you to still end up competent. It's generally harder to make a bad PC than a good one, which lets you both really play around with those combos or pick based on whatever has happened at the table. There are synergistic choices, but SotWW does a good job at rewarding both specialised characters and those that went broad. SotDL had a fairly large flaw in this aspect as taking magic later than Novice generally gimped your ability but in SotWW that's no longer the case. Your spell picks are scaled to the tier of Path so if the only magic you get comes from your Master Path you'll have a couple powerful spells but miss out on all the extra lower tier stuff and synergies a full caster might have. There is a lot of support for gishes too
>>97113200It'd be pretty easy to do in Anima since each class at its core is just a list of what is more or less expensive. Being able to use magic is a bit more of a bump since it doesn't come from a class, but from a thing you pick up in character generation.
>>97113200I never understood the appeal of this, i get having a solid framework for building new classes ex novo but wanting to chop and glue together bits of different classes is just one step away from classless games full stop. Just make peace with yourself and start playing with hero, mutants & mastermind, gurps, etc...
>>97113200Not an rpg, but Sherri S. Tepper's True Game book series had Talents, 11 powers that people could have, and for which people had different names depending on the combination of talents they have. For example, if you have the Talents of necromancy and healing you're a Mourner, but if you have necromancy and clairvoyance you're a Timereacher.You can find various combinations named at this website: http://www.hambo.com/misc/talents.html
>>97117530Like OP said, he's a powergaming faggot who gets his giggles from finding oh-so-clever ways to "break the rules"
>>97121582Gestalt doesn't break anything, it's just a different rule set.
>>97121978Aside from where he said>>97113200>I like mixing and matching two (or three) different classes into something wild and possibly game breaking.So not only is OP a powergaming faggot, he's also a retard that doesn't know how Gestalt rules are used.
>>97113200do you find the lancer/stodl style class stacking gives you this effect?
>>97113200Aside from classless systems, PF2e is my favorite multiclass system out there. Basic breakdown (I'll compare to PF1e for ease of understanding). In 1e, like many other games, class perks were bolted onto the class. Things like the paladin's Lay on Hands, Smite, or anti-fear aura were baked into the class and unable to be removed. Class archetypes existed, which were kind of like pre-homebrewed versions of a class with certain features switched around, but once you picked your flavor of paladin, you were locked in. Your class--and its abilities--progressed automatically as you leveled up.2e stll has plenty of that. Champions (the 2e paladin-equivalent), for instance, pick a "cause" and a "blessing", which each give them different mechanical benefits depending on the choice, and they do still get Lay on Hands automatically. However, a significant portion of each class's advancement has been moved over into class-specific feat lists. You get a "class feat" at level one, and at every even level after that, and you pick and choose your class features from these giant lists as you gain levels. You can, of course, be a paladin that has Smite, or Aura of Courage, but you can also pick other stuff instead. It's almost like 1e's archetypes, except you build your own for each character, choosing the class options you want as you level up.Enter the 2e archetype system: this is 2e's one-stop shop for multi-/prestige classing. Archetypes are essentially class-agnostic feat chains that anyone can take instead of choosing a class feat from their own class's list. The basic idea is that, each time you're picking a class feat, you can choose to forgo a little bit of your own class's development in order to get some feature or ability from outside of your class. The upside? You got to pick a feature that someone like you normally wouldn't get. The downside? You picked it *instead* of a feature you normally would get it. It takes the place of your class feat.
>>97128010Each archetype has the same basic structure. First, they have a "Dedication" feat. This is the beginning of the chain and a prerequisite for every other feat in the archetype. This is always where you start, and it generally gives you the basics of whatever the archetype is. If it's a multiclass archetype, it'll often give you that class's basic proficiencies and maybe one of their signature abilities. For instance, the Barbarian Dedication gives you the Rage action, while the Dual Weapon Warrior dedication gives you the signature dual-wield feat Double Slice. After that, it's off to the races. Class archetypes tend to have the same general structure: they'll provide you a "basic" feat that allows you to pick any low-level feat from that class's list, and also serves as a prerequisite to the "advanced" feat, which allows you full access to their feat list, using half your level to meet level requirements. This means that a level 12 barbarian with the fighter dedication could choose any fighter feat they qualify for, up to half their level (in this case, half of 12 would be 6). Recall a few paragraphs ago when I explained how much of each class's features were moved into these feat lists? All of those are up for grabs. You want to be a monk with Smite Evil? Go for it. A ranger with alchemical bombs? Go nuts.
>>97128018The only thing holding you back is that you've gotta take two feats from an archetype before you can pick a new one (you can't just dip 1 feat into every class). Other than that, the world's your oyster. And the best part is, your point about "sacrificing your end game potential?" That was a real problem in 1e, where multiclassing would halt your main class's progression. However, it's nonexistent in 2e, because the entire archetype system exists within class feats. The *only* thing you give up when multiclassing is that you're sacrificing your own class feats to gain access to another's. Your numbers still go up. If you're a spellcaster, you still continue to gain spell slots. If you're a martial, your attack bonus still increases. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, take a look at pic related. That's an investigator build I'm currently playing. You can ignore all the stuff in grey, but note that each archetype is color-coded. What you're looking at is an Investigator/Medic/Wizard/Halcyon Speaker/Cleric/Eldritch Archer. That's two multiclass archetypes and three prestige classes. You can get very weird with it.
Shadow of the Weird Wizard seems interesting. I am curious, though. Are there any systems out there where PCs can switch their classes at any point for a different one, while maintaining and improving their base statistics? Less defining than a SotWW path. Something like Dragon's Dogma, but with more crunch for PC statistics.
>>97113200Rule of Cool's Legend is close, it's like if multiclassing and gestalt had a baby. Classes are split into 3 thematically aligned tracks, you get to swap out tracks for other classes' tracks with a couple exceptions, plus a racial track if relevant, or one of the non-class aligned tracks.
>>97113200Fabula UltimaDaggershartDungeon World: Class Warfare
