Do you think that most enemy abilities in D&D 5e lack variety? Basically everything in official content is just "attack roll for damage," "save for damage," or "just reskin a spell."What are some abilities, either official or homebrew, that you think break this mold?I think the Roper is a good example, since the combination of Tendril, Reel, and Bite have definitely raised the stakes and fun factor at my table.
>>97133568>RoperThat's a pretty week example. Pulling creatures 25 feet is the most unique thing it does, but it's only necessary in the first place due to how slow it is.If you want some better examples>GhostMagically aging people is very unique, and while there are some other monsters with possession, it's fairly rare>ShadowBasically the only 5e monster with ability score damage>Intellect DevourerSave or die effects are otherwise very rare in 5e>Elder OblexEating memories is fairly unique, even if a bit easy to cure>Gas Spore, Slaad, Elder Brain Dragon, Carrion Stalker, Rot GrubsOn the list for similar reasons. Namely, hyper-deadly parasites/diseases. 'Save or die within X hours/days' isn't the most interesting either, but it's something>TlacatecoloWeird name, but has a disease that inflicts Exhaustion, which is potentially lethal, but more importantly will have lasting effects for several days if not cured immediately. >Salamander Inferno MasterHas a fireball effect that lights people on fire, but as previous, causes exhaustion levels while burning, so it matters more in the long term. >Soul Shaker, Phoenix, FlameskullHave some interesting ways to revive themselves>Archon of the TriumverateCan tell if someone has broken a law in the past 24 hours. Not very combat-oriented, but strange enough that I wanted to mention it.Any monsters with regional effects are also worth a mention here, since those tend to be somewhat more unique even if they aren't applicable to combat.There are also some good creatures with antimagical effects, although most of those aren't very interesting beyond that.A Canoloth has truesight, magic resistance, and blocks teleportation within 60 feet of it for example, but if you actualyl fight it it's just bite/claw/whip tongue. Similar deal for Flail Snails or Helmed Horrors. Useful for not getting screwed by magic, but otherwise don't do much except smack things.
>>97133755Thanks for the great review! I picked the Roper out because I like the mechanic of grab, pull, eat. The whole slowly being reeled in by something with big AC and big health (for a weaker party at least) can be fun-scary. And fighting multiple of them, you can have 2 or more grab a PC and tug-of-war over which gets to eat them.I agree that unique curses, diseases or effects are cool, and definitely have more variety, but it's still a "fail a save, be inconvenienced, find a greater restoration." Have you or your DM ever homebrewed new abilities? Here's one I used for a hefty, evil, caster boss earlier in my game:Deathbell StaffAction: Attack: Has advantage vs a target with Psychic Ringing condition. +9 to hit, dealing 2d6 bludgeoning + 1d8 psychic. If target has Psychic Ringing condition, the timer resets.Bonus Action: Tap Staff: In a 60ft radius, targets not immune to psychic damage (which the staff grants) make a Con save DC 15, and on a failure take 1d4 psychic, -2 to AC, attacks, saves, an ability checks. On a save, target only takes half damage. Psychic ringing lasts until the end of the user's next turn.Unleash: Happens automatically once Psychic Ringing deals a total of 30 damage. All creatures in 60 feet (sparing evil-aligned) make a DC 18 wisdom save or take 4d8 psychic damage, are deafened for one minute, and if they fail by more than 5, are stunned until the end of their next turn. On a save, half damage.
>>97133940>I agree that unique curses, diseases or effects are cool, and definitely have more variety, but it's still a "fail a save, be inconvenienced, find a greater restoration."Sure, but you'd be surprised how few things in 5e actually cause the "be inconvenienced" part. There's a reason my list was so short, because a lot of monsters just deal damage and maybe poison someone for a minute. Like just for an example of something that feels like it could be unique but isn't>Catoblepas19 Strength and 21 Con, so it's just a melee beatstickCon save for standing near it or you're poisoned for a roundSmacks you with a tail for a Con save or you're stunned for a roundDeath ray for a Con save that deals necrotic damage on a fail, half on a success, and max if you fail by 5 or more.So many monsters function this way. Melee beatstick, extra damage or generic conditions on a failed save. Compared to that, any monster where the condition is something that lasts on the scale of hours instead of rounds/minutes is a drastic improvement. Same with the cases where it's a non-standard condition or does something extra.Petrification is probably the only exception I'd bring up for standard conditions. Since while that also gets fixed by Greater Restoration, hauling around a statue of your friend until you find a safe spot can add to the challenge.
>>97134098>Like just for an example of something that feels like it could be unique but isn'tI can forgive creatures like this because they have thematic variety. You're right that it's still limited by being just poison and stun, but it does fit with the monster.I'm honestly struggling to think of something that really does step outside the norm. I found somewhat of an example in my DM notes, of a swamp-zombie type where they dogpile grapples on a player, each grapple increasing the DC to be pulled into the muck. It's still basically a save or take damage, since it's just a unique way to get to drowning the player.Conditions are an excellent way to be unique. I might've overstepped with calling your list inconveniences, since things like aging, taking memories, etc, are very cool (despite being "easily" fixable in the meta). And great point on petrification, it's 100% on the DM to make accidentally dropping and breaking the statue a risk without safe transport like a portable hole.So I guess I don't mind when the typical things (conditions, damage, etc) appear in a unique way, since that just is how the game works. You have HP and abilties, and those should always be at risk.I guess the question is less "what can you do that isn't a curse, condition, damage, etc" and more "how can you deliver that in a way that isn't an attack roll or save." The Catoblepas fails there. I've used telegraphed attacks before, where a boss with a big sword winds up, and I either tell the party or base it on passive perception that 2x4 squares are about to be hit with guarunteed damage. It's still damage, but it's on the players to move out of the aoe.
>>971335685e's monsters all have a near universal gimmick>surround a target>attack 2 or more times>if the attack has an extra effect resolve that>repeat until dead
>>97134257It is a tragedy isn't it. I don't have any experience with previous versions, but I wonder how different they could be on this topic. I do think it makes sense, since game-wise, a fight only involves what is on your character sheet, and anything else is basically roleplay.
>>97134243The distinction I draw is mainly between more generic conditions, and those that are either more unique, or more cumbersome.Getting Petrified for 1 minute really wouldn't be anything to worry about. Getting petrified for 24 hours suddenly poses a challenge. The PCs might not have the solution on hand, and thus even if they killed the monster responsible, it throws a wrench in the remainder of their adventure.Similar case for the ones that afflict Exhaustion.That's the thing that tends to make monsters more unique in 5e, but it's mostly due to how many monsters don't have that. They deal damage, maybe poison someone for a few rounds. Then the monster dies, the party casts some basic healing spells, and they move on.That's what causes a lot of monsters to feel generic, because combats with them always end in a similar way.
>>97134441>That's what causes a lot of monsters to feel generic, because combats with them always end in a similar way.So it is necessary for some monsters to feel generic, because they just are, they're minor encounters on the road or in a dungeon. When you have petrification and exhaustion, that leads into story-shaping territory, changing how the players deal with the rest of their journey. I like that way of looking at it!It is tough though to make combat itself, even the "unique" ones, truly unique. Thank god we roleplay while doing this, to cover up the underlying simplicity.
>>971335685e made a concerted effort to streamline monster stat blocks under the apprehension that monsters are generally only going to be used for a single encounter so any ability they can't use in the five rounds before they die is just pointless bloat. IMO this tended to make them a lot less interesting, and it definitely gave DMs a lot less guidance for the sort of things they could do outside of combat. Compare the stat blocks for a 3.5e mindflayer or pitfiend to their 5e counterpart. The former might be slightly more complex but I think it's hard to argue that they don't have more depth.
>>97135351>>97134306>I do think it makes sense, since game-wise, a fight only involves what is on your character sheet, and anything else is basically roleplay.That was exactly my problem with the "any ability they can't use in 5 founds is wasted text" comment I read one of the wotc developers make in some article. Even if they don't use the ability in combat then having it on the character sheet can inform roleplay. A pit fiend probably isn't going to rely on polymorph and charm person in combat but it's great if the party first interact with him in the guise of the king's vizier or some shit.
>>97133568I have the opposite opinion. I think that most monster stat blocks are several orders of magnitude more interesting to play than any PC class. But that's because martials are irredeemably fucking awful and I think spellcasters are ghey.
>>97135405That was a direct response to the absolute faggotry that was monsters being designed as a walking pile of spells.
>>97133568I had a GM who would always add a rider effect to every one of his monsters' attacks. Stuff like:>Almost every bludgeoning attack will either force a STR save vs. Knockback, DEX save vs. Knockdown, or CON save vs. Stun for 1 round.>A bite that also grapples on hit. If the target doesn't escape by next round, then the monster usually uses a devastating follow-up attack.>A slashing attack that causes bleeding (represented by necrotic damage equal to the original wound) every round until someone makes a Medicine check or uses healing magic. CON save to resist. Further attacks cause the bleeding damage to stack.>A massive barbed javelin that impales the target for piercing damage, knocks him backwards (STR save to resist), causes further bludgeoning damage on collision with a nearby surface, and restrains the target to that surface (takes an action and a STR check to escape).Those are the ones he seems to love most. It can get a bit overwhelming when a monster has Multiattack and has a different rider effect on every one of its attacks.
>>97133568>Do you think that most enemy abilities in D&D 5e lack variety?No.Mostly because I don't play D&D, so I seldom think about it in general.
>>97134306Why do you think combat is separate from roleplaying?
>>97133568My monsters use Adaptation, Alternate Form, Animal Control, Animal Empathy, Animal Mimicry, Animation, Armor, Astral Projection, Attuned, Aura, Banish, Blast, Blending, Blind, Blind Fighting, Blink, Boost, Buff, Clairvoyance, Cloud Minds, Communications, Constructs, Danger Sense, Darkness, Dazzle, Deflection, Density, Detection, Determination, Dimensional Travel, Dispel, Drain, Duplication, Elemental Control, Emotion Control, Energy Absorption, Ensnare, Evasion, Extra Limbs, Flight, Force Field, Energy Form, Liquid Form, Solid Form, Gaseous Form, Gestalt, Growth, Healing, Hyper Breath, Illusions, Immunity, Invisibility, Irritant, Languages, Leadership, Leaping, Life Drain, Light/Effect, Lightning Reflexes, Luck, Machine Control, Martial Arts, Master of Disguise, Matter Chameleon, Mind Blast, Mind Control, Nullify, Phasing, Plasticity, Polymorph, Portable Storehouse, Possession, Power Absorption, Power Mimicry, Precognition, Preparation, Psi-Screen, Psychometry, Radar, Regeneration, Resistance, Running, Separation, Shockwave, Shrinking, Slay, Slick, Speak with Dead, Spinning, Star Gate, Stretching, Strike, Stun, Summoning, Super Senses, Super Speed, Swimming, Swing Line, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Teleportation, Time Stop, Time Travel, Total Recall, Tracer, Transformation, Transmutation, Tunneling, Two-Dimensional, Vanish, Ventriloquism, Wall-Crawling, and Weakness Detection.
>>97134306Well?
