Welcome to the New School Revolution General, the thread dedicated to games derived from the OSR movement.>What is NSR?>NSR is a subcategory of the OSR, it mostly follows the same play style but experiments further with the mechanics and settings.>Broadly NSR games have a gm, a living world, are rules light, deadly and focus on emergent narrative, interaction and exploration.>What is this thread NOT for?Meta discussions or drama of the games and its creators aka shadowboxing with twitter, reddit and the OSRG (frens with osrbros)>stay on topic>gamesShadowdark, into the odd, mausritter, cairn, mörk borg (and its hacks), dungeon crawl classics, mothership, knave, troika!, whitehack, blackhack, old school essentials (we know this is just a retroclone), etc. >links, resources, more games!, etc:https://pastebin.com/0W8WmbCk (BROKEN we're working on it) >previous thread:>>96999742Thread Question:Trokia adventures, have you ran any? Have you converted any to other systems?
>>97162687this thread is utterly irrelevant, as everything covered by this thread should be discussed on /osrg/
>>97164577Fuck off fishfag
>>97164577>Oh no I see a thread I don't like and go into it to be mad on purpose
>>97162687>trokia adventures There's a bunch of them but have seemed strongly character type focused when I skim them so less material for me to loot for other games. I've been keeping a copy of The Cerulean Curtain around that seems workable the next time I need a filler adventure for the evening though. I like the general tone and its got clear enough instructions I can run it in whatever system really.
>>97164577
>be level 3 Union Wizard>knows exactly two spells: Create Water and Stone Shape>works for the sanitation department>literally the only reason the capital city with 500k population isn't a cholera ridden graveyard>negotiates a 400 gold/week salary because if he strikes, everyone dies of thirst in 3 days>retires at 45 with a villa in the coast>adventurers call him a wagie while sleeping in mud
>>97162687I'm not this guy >>97164577 but what's the difference between OSR and NSR? I've never played anything from either "movement."
>>97170640OSR is devoted to early D&D, and its clones. The thing is that OD&D, Basic, and AD&D are all largely the same game, as Basic and Advanced are just OD&D with different bits from the the supplements, and a few tweaks here and there. The NuSR movement takes what they like to think of as the principles behind that game, what makes it work so well, and tries to build it into new games, so you have an eclectic collection of games that don't really have a whole lot in common with each other except in theory.
>>97170640OSR is try to get back to old D&D. Dungeoncrawling, open-world stuff, less plot, less in the way of character builds, player agency, gold for XP instead of murder as the focus, more negotiation as to how to handle less common gameplay situations, and fewer hard and fast rules (but not none). Slight variations on old D&D rulesets power it all.NSR is taking the more abstract, non-systemic parts of what OSR theorycrafters came up with (e.g. player agency, open world/sandbox play) and applying it to all sorts of games and rules engines. It grew out of the OSR, but really isn't doing the same things any longer. There are tons of non-dungeoncrawler NSR games, for instance, and rules can be anything, though they tend to really focus on the lighter end. More variety, less unifying it all together: both good and bad in trying to make a community out of it all.
Anyone have a system that works really well with Reach of the Roach God/Lorn Song of the Bachelor/ the Thousand Thousand Island stuff?My go-to system doesn't really feel like a tonal fit. Have been looking at Cairn 2e, but I feel neutral about it at best.
>>97170686I did a Yoon-Suin and 1K1K islands run for a while with mixed Into the Odd and Scarlet Heroes.Basically using ItO as the character generation base for player characters as east wind trading company goons going up the river into the heart of darkness and various tables and infestation from Scarlet Heroes as go-to dm bits as needed. Didn't get to use Reach of the Roach, everyone got tpkd by froghemoths before it arrived. ItO's fast combat and overall high deadliness suited the vibe and how I like to run games.
>>97170640OSR is archeology. it is strictly about the preservation of B/X (Moldvay/Cook). the goal is to take those specific rules, clean up the layout, clarify the wording, and organize them so they are actually usable at the table, but the engine remains identical. it preserves how it actually was.NSR dumps the specific mechanics to chase the feeling people remember having, the sense of novelty, weirdness, high lethality, and player agency. it uses modern design to recreate the impact DnD had back then, rather than the literal rules. it's DnD how we imagine it was, not how it actually played.
>>97173044>OSR is archeology. it is strictly about the preservation of B/X (Moldvay/Cook). the goal is to take those specific rules, clean up the layout, clarify the wording, and organize them so they are actually usable at the table, but the engine remains identical. it preserves how it actually was.Close, but no cigar. It's as much about B/X as it is about OD&D and AD&D. (And occasionally a bit of Holmes and BECMI.)
>>97170640The trolls who ruined the /osrg/ and bump this thread are the very last people you should be asking.
>>97173285Oh no, 2etard = fishfag is sad again
>>97174176like the mechanics are dogshit, but 2nd ed has the most iconic settings in D&D history. Dark Sun? yes please, that would be a cool contribution to /nusrg/ threads. 2nd Ed, ACKS, i don't care, as long as people keep the shitflinging to an acceptable amount
>>97174356I don't have a problem with people who like 2e: by all means talk about it if you want.I was talking to ONE specific troll known as fishfag, 2etard, nightlandsfag, and multiple other nicknames, who's been trolling /tg/ for a few years. He's been trying to hijack /osrg/ specifically every couple days or so for weeks, creating literally tens of troll threads that are regularly shot down and bitching and whining about how /osrg/ and /nsrg/ are not to his liking while NEVER contributing anything constructive to any discussion. Except for three character sheets he's shared that are full of errors, showing he's never even played a single game in his life.
>>97174509>he's never even played a single game in his life.man that sucks, i kinda know that feeling. got my first rulebook (wfrp 1st ed) in middle school and hung out on irc, but didn't have anyone to play with until uni. even now i have like 7-8 systems on my shelf that i'll prob never play. good thing there's a fuckton of crpgs for AD&D though, like the gold box stuff and baldur's gate. wouldn't wish the no games misery on anyone.
>>97174645I'd have empathy for him as well were he not the most obnoxious and retarded troll on the whole of /tg/ (and he's up against some fierce opposition!)
>>97174645ntayrt You never ran it for yourself or convinced anyone in middle school to play with you?
>>97173285profoundly ichthyosexual
>>97174990looking back there wasn't anyone interested, can't really blame myself. finding people at uni felt like a cosmic coincidence. one day some guy just barged into my dorm room trying to sell me contraband weapons because he was still tripping from a cyberpunk session, kek. i have too low verbal iq/extrovertednessto run a game myself
>>97174992
>>97174992Your posting style is too easily identifiable to deny your own existence, fishfag.
>>97175319>thinking the trollcow is retarded is a posting styleSo all of /tg/ is your fishfag.
fishfag backstory reveal
>>97175405lmao
>>97173285You shouldnt mention them. Report, ignore, and post ontopic.
>>97174509Actually the guy who posted those threads here. Im gonna say what actually happened.Trollcow used VPN/proxies to mass false report those threads and get them flagged as spam. Hed also come into the thread and claim they were "hijacking" and once they were deleted, post threads up that just "reworded" the OP from the threads i posted. I just wanted to have a legitimate discussion, not one in a thread thats got a forced contested narrative on what the OSR is in his personal opinion. Trollcows false appeals to authority, tradition and no true scotsman fallacies have regularly derailed the threads. This nsrg was made in an attempt to force out topics he doesnt like. I dont like Mörk borg, but im not going to censor discussion of it.
>>97177322>Actually the guy who posted those threads here.So it was always the same guy, despite your continuous claims that you are multiple people. Saving this post.
>>97177358Go ahead. Ill stand by that i posted those threads, and the character sheets, but thats all i posted.Every post thay you dislike is not a particular strawman, trollcow. I postef the threads and the character sheets because i didnt want /osrg/ to go from a general discussion thread to an echo chamber for a cherry picked contested definition of what a movement is. It foesnt matter how much you personally dislike a system and try to censor discussion, people will keep talking about it because its on topic and part of the OSR.
>>97177386>I don't even know the rules of the game, to the point I'm unable to create a character sheet without glaring errors in it even on the SECOND attempt after getting corrected, but I care about it enough to try and troll the whole general to death.Never change, fishfag.
>>97177386>use the retarded catchphrases only one guy uses>I'm definitely not the same guy though>I admit that I did at least half the stuff I'm accused of howeverlmaoYou know what, I used to think separating the generals was stupid but now I approve of it just so you personally stay asshurt.
>>97177627I've said it before and I'll say it again: Fishfag is such an odious and revolting piece of subhuman refuse that he's managed to accomplish the unthinkable: bring peace between OSRfags and NSRfags.
>>97177386You really shouldn't have engaged with the trollcow. Posting character sheets just convinced him that people are actually reading his posts and bothering to care what he thinks.
My memory is failing me; the book containing this page should be somewhere at my puter, but I cannot remember its title at all.
>>97178164Looks like an issue of Knock to me. Shouldn't take you too long to flip to page 46 of each one to check.
>>97178265That is indeed it (#1). Thanks, anon.
>>97177322>>97177358How do you know this?
>>97177322>>97177386>>97177832Fuck off fishfag.
>>97173285Eat shit and die, fishfag you disgusting cretinous troll.
>>97175405D E E P E S T L O R EEEPESTLORE
>>97177322Fucking kill yourself already, fishfaggot.
>>97177386>and the character sheetsLOL fucking loser, not only are you nogames, you're nevergames. Broken, unused character sheets will forever be your legacy.
>>97170661>both good and bad in trying to make a community out of it all.This is the tricky part. The openness can have great creative bursts but momentum is difficult ot maintain with a lack of cohesion.
Which OSR has the most "dungeon synth" feel?Like, the feel of gritty black-and-white screen-printed books. Simple and pulpy with that semi-woodcut-looking art.The dark, inky aesthetic. Touches pushing back the shadow, goblins scurrying around tapping their feet on stone. Black and white. Grimy zines, screen-printed blacks that swallow up detail, big voids of negative space, medieval marginalia energy. Weird ugliness. Brooding. Battered pulp covers with pre-digital printing imperfectionsI mean the aesthetics of printed materials, not the rules or adventures.What OSR or NSR materials (rulebooks etc) or even Zines embody this aesthetic best?Cairn? Shadowdark? Who wins here on aesthetic groundspic related
>>97183316Dungeon synth and woodcuts isn't even lined up. Vermis is dungeon synth as an a e s t h e t i c object if you want, not even pretending to be a game so I respect it more in a lot of ways. They at least realized what they want to do, visual story telling with nostaligic cultural ties to 90s entertainment videogames, without gettin gtheir half baked bad design stuck in it as >rules lite There's 2 of them. Full books instead of zines though.
>TroikaI've seen this everywhere but I was always put off by the art honestly, what do you like about it?
>>97185621>what do you like about it I don't really, its mysterious to me in the nusr appeal as well. Some of the adventures I've seen looked neat but many didn't and appear largely character type based.
Troika goes way too gonzo for my tastes. I like a classic medival aesthetic, but I stick to nusr because I'm drawn to rules light with just a dash of simulationism to escape feeling like a video game.I feel really out of my element when someone hears im into OSR and starts sending me "Orcs are flying fluffballs who feed off of orgasmo energy and remove the concept of the color green from your mind on a 1d6" type shit. I just want to have my players go into old ruins while discovering the cause of their downfall.
>>97187396>I just want to have my players go into old ruins while discovering the cause of their downfall.gross negligence in infrastructure spending by the pointy hatted ne'er do wells
>>97187396You check out Mythic Bastionland? >Orcs are flying fluffballs who feed off of orgasmo energy and remove the concept of the color green from your mind on a 1d6" type shit.I can fuck with a bit of that but it needs enough grounded contrast to work for more than a one shot.
don't die yet
https://andrew-cavanagh.itch.io/cairn-bx
what's the consensus on hard endgame conditions (like Mork Borg's Calendar of Nechrubel)?curious if you prefer the impending doom mechanics that mechanically force the campaign to a close, or if you find them too restrictive for long term play. does having a literal countdown to the apocalypse enhance the tension, or does it just turn the game into a sprint that kills the sandbox feel?post favorite "the end is nigh" mechanics or tell me why they're a gimmick
>>97207046I think it's an alright concept in theory to have strong impending doom as part of the game world but a shitty execution to have it be inevitable in a gameplay style that is designed to facilitate living worlds and player agency. It's like they wanted to outdo Death Frost Doom but never actually played anything to completion.
>>97185621>>97187396That's because Troika is like half a napkin doodle for a surreal world wrapped around a bunch of torn up wacky OSR ideas that were haphazardly taped back together into a "game". Even if you wanted to do the rest of the work that the designer refused to do before selling his stale turd of a game, what you actually get from the material in there is just incoherent bullshit.
>>97213637Real. I don't think I've ever even seen a Troika play report, let alone one that's from an ongoing campaign.
Cyberdark looks cool as fuck, what I’ve seen of it and read through of it, and even the little demo the put out, very cool.However, this RPG company has almost no track record. What they have made looks like trash lmao.I’m conflicted.
>>97203519isnt cairn already b/xkek
>>97220189No, it's not
>>97226302Just let these threads die and return to /osrg/.
>>97226363Why?
>>97226368There's clearly minimal interest here and there's more trolling than there is discussion. All this thread really succeeds at is confusing newfags.
>>97226394>more trolling than there is discussionThat's for the mods to worry about>confusing newfagsThey're not as stupid as you think they are
>>97226425The mods don't touch /tg/ anymore.>They're not as stupid as you think they areYes they are because I don't, I just know that this thread brings about nothing at this point.
>>97226464All the threads on /tg/ have to be immediately relevant to (you) personally? Get fucked.
>>97226394There's plenty of interest in the games, just not in this thread ever since it became obvious it's only being bumped by the trolls from the /osrg/, and no one wants to be around them.
>>97226565Nusr has always had a discourse problem, ts not enough commonality to get traction.
>>97226363whenever you mention something nsr there they call you a fag and tell you to fuck off to here
>>97226575The first several /nusr/ threads had a lot of genuine discussion, but the /osrg/ trolls just kept showing up, until the thread has become nothing but the same sort of posts they use to pretend they haven't killed the /osrg/.
>>97226464>The mods don't touch /tg/ anymore.Yeah, sure, all those deleted posts and threads lately are just people getting really embarrassed by posting dumb shit like (You) and deleting their posts out of shame>>97226580Why wouldn't they? NuSR is inspired by OSR, but the games have almost nothing in common mechanically with it, or even with each other in many cases. Go post about Cyberpunk 2020 in the Magic the Gathering thread and see what kind of reception you get
>>97226610implying games like shadowdark or mork borg have nothing in common mechanically with other OSR titles is laughably retarded
>>97226618Please just ignore that troll instead of engaging with him. There's no one left who still bothers believing anything he says anymore.
>>97226610Not a single one of my posts in this thread, or that I've made in the past week, have been deleted.Show the proof.
Anyone know of any adventures or modules that take place in an amusement park?
>>97226618do those games belong in /osrg/?
>>97226763I think there's a Ravenloft module set in a carnival, called Carnival. Published in the late 90s though, so it's bound to be garbage.>>97226777There's not much for DMs of those games to discuss with DMs of AD&D or B/X, the rules are very different, particularly for Mork Borg. Shadowdark is closer, but still has some weird quirks.
>>97226807Hi, you failed to provide the information that was requested!>do those games belong in /osrg/?Would you like to try again?
>>97226828Hi!Can you quote the post that says>Please take all discussion of those games to /osrg/?Please and thank you :)
>>97226838>uhm, no u!bad trollbot. stop shitting your code and answer the question.
>>97226854Hi, you failed to provide the information that was requested!>Can you quote the post that says>>Please take all discussion of those games to /osrg/?Would you like to try again?
>>97226856>well double no u!daww, its broken, that was easy :)nogames trollbots arent very well built
>>97226867Hi, you failed to provide the information that was requested!>Can you quote the post that says>>Please take all discussion of those games to /osrg/?Would you like to try again?
>>97226565>there was plenty of interest in this thread until everybody interested in this thread realized that all posts in this thread were artificial bumps?????????
>>97226610>Why wouldn't they? NuSR is inspired by OSR, but the games have almost nothing in common mechanically with it, or even with each other in many cases. Go post about Cyberpunk 2020 in the Magic the Gathering thread and see what kind of reception you getThis. This is like getting mad that you can't post about Mekton Z, Vampire or Runequest in an OD&D thread because those games were ultimately inspired by OD&D. Eventually a style detaches from its original inspirations, and the NuSR is the big RPG movement of this decade just as the OSR was of the 2010s or Forge-style indies in the 2000s.
>>97226618Mork Bork literally has nothing in common mechanically with other OSR systems unless you count things like "uses dice". It's not a clone of any degree of distance, it's a system created entirely from scratch and for fundamentally different purposes. It's weird that you don't know this if you actually care about Hork Stork.
>>97227761>literally just the standard D&D six stats compressed into four>roll a d20, add a modifier, try to beat a target number, broadly compatible with ascending AC in OSR clones like Black Hack or Swords & Wizardry>variable armor reduction, same as Into the Odd and The Black Hack>2d6 morale checks, same as Moldvay Basic>uses short rests/long rests to restore hit pointMork Borg is a B/X clone, unless you're mathematically illiterate, and can't grasp how DR mirrors THAC0
>>97227821>literally just the standard D&D six stats compressed into fourIf you're willing to allow "has ability scores" as proof of clone status that makes virtually every RPG ever a clone. Bork is closer to GURPS than to D&D.>roll a d20, add a modifier, try to beat a target numberSame principle here: d20 vs. target is probably the most common resolution method in the TTRPG space, especially if you count d100 rolls which after all are the same thing multiplied by 5 and thus "broadly compatible". The fact that ascending AC is one instance of this type of roll means nothing, especially since the actual old-school games don't even use it.>2d6 morale checks, same as Moldvay BasicThis is the only one where you really have a point but it's nowhere near enough on its own, particularly considering the prevalence of Xd6 rolls in Bork.>uses short rests/long rests to restore hit pointAh yes, just like my OD&D!
>>97227821>Into the Odd and The Black HackThose are both NuSR games
>>97227842>Bork is closer to GURPS than to D&Dhas to be a bait. GURPS is roll 3d6 bell curve, Borg is linear d20>"has ability scores" makes every RPG a clone, "d20 vs target" is genericit's not just it has stats, it's the modifier spread:D&D's 3-18 stat range yields a modifier from -3 to +3in Borg you roll 3d6, use a table to determine a stat from -3 to +3>damage/restGURPS: shock penalties, limb targeting, consciousness checks at negative HPWarhammer: critical injury tables, insanity pointsBorg: you have HP, when it hits 0, you dieit's the D&D abstraction, it's not "generic" it's specifically the Gygaxian model of health
>>97227913Reading comprehension, in the name of God, Anon. Bork is closer to GURPS than to D&D *in the array of ability scores specifically*.
>>97226876Do shadowrun and morkborg belong in /osrg/?
>>97227761>Mork Bork literally has nothing in common mechanically with other OSR systemsBait>It's not a clone of any degree of distance, it's a system created entirely from scratch Lmao WHAT
>>97227930Hi, you failed to provide the information that was requested!>Can you quote the post that says>>Please take all discussion of those games to /osrg/?Would you like to try again?
>>97226602We mostly talked about mothership, which had enough hype to get enough people playing it a bit. The rest is a lot harder to get into beyond very basic dungeon outline or room content advice and even then mechanical distinctions in a lot of nsr is all over the place so the discussions get very vague and abstract. Which is feasible for a bit but one can only say >make sure the room has interactivity in some many ways.
>>97226610>>97227753Its cross compatibility that most of the fanatics are missing the point of. One of the highlights of actual osr material is that its cross compatible. You can run B1 in it with minimal effort and you can run any module from it with Basic with minimal effort. There can be much wailing and gnashing of teeth about what that effort entails but most of the nsr systems get far away enough it is more effort than with a retroclone to the extent it may very well be a different game. Being a different game is okay, its just harder to tie in or for the wider community to get much out of. Oh there we go. NSR just takes, it doesn't contribute. lmao We're the orcs.
>>97229467If we're being honest a big problem is also that a lot of NuSR enthusiasts really are "collectors" who don't run the games they buy, ie nogames paypigs. That's the unfortunate reality: many of these games are *primarily* reading material for guys who buy them instead of Funko Pops. Which means a significant part of any given print run never gets used, which further reduces the available conversation about those games.
>>97227989Wow, it's so easy to break a chatbot these days! Crazy how they're incapable of even answering a single simple question, and just start spewing it back
>Trokia adventures, have you ran any?Slow Sleight to Plankton Downs, twice. First time it got quickly out of hands, very new players and I was still learning to guide strangers into having fun in a collective way. Second time it was run as intended and it was kinda disapointing.I don't have strong feelings against Troika but I don't find it particularly fun.
>>97185621>The Cerulean CurtainIt's the lightest of games while still sort of being a game. It opens the door to people to be as weird as they can and some people do stuff you wouldn't find anywhere else. The studio that makes it seems nice.>>97187396Just play Cairn
>>97213783Because only B/X people do play reports. MoSh has a sectin in their discord dedicated to that and I've played way more sessions than I've seen posts in there. Someone telling you about their campaign is the worst possible content.
>>97226763https://skinkworks-games.itch.io/paradise-parkI think I saw a Liminal Horror one but I can't recall the name
>>97227842>specially if you count d100 rolls which after all are the same thing multiplied by 5 and thus "broadly compatible".I don't believe there's any d100 system that uses target number, they are all roll under.Please don't start discussions that go nowhere about topics you barely know. I generally agree with you, but your arguments aren't interesting to read.
>>97229771Most big NSR games are free
>>97233496nta but the rolemaster line and all it's clones are d100 + modifiers so they function the same as a d20 system but with granularity other than that i agree with you
>>97233503Which ones are free?
>>97233428>I don't have strong feelings against Troika but I don't find it particularly fun.Makes sense, I hadn't even found anyone who had played it.
>>97233503This may shock you but having a free no-art PDF does not stop paypiggies from oinking over the hardcover with Kickstarter FOMO exclusives.
>>97244409I pirate everything at this point, too many totally useless shovelware items. If I think its useful after reading it I go back and buy it. Doesn't happen as often as I'd like.
>>97245051Good for you, but that in no way detracts from Anon's point: >>97229771In fact, the large proportion of shovelware kind of proves his point.
>>97245072What about anything I posted made it seem like I was trying to detract from their point?
>>97245172Good question.
Reposting this hereI made a one-page "dungeon" for DCCIt's more of a side quest, but feel free to tell me what you think.It was originally written as a solo thief adventure, but it should work fine with 2 or 3 people as well.
>>97246253For my own preferences, I think it would be good to make a few additions and removals. Not to be cruel but like why in god's name is "depending on the season, there is an 80% chance for there to be ripe tomatoes," something you need to spell out for anyone running this. Also regarding percentile inclusions I think they should be included in the layout ahead of any box text since they change the narration.You have some time sensitivity here but no real reason for it to matter, maybe add a dog or something? A roving threat of discovery that players can react to and force their hurry.More editorially, it's DCC, go gonzo w/ it. You really only offer up the one end point with the document, maybe there's a ghost of the former land lord that knows the skinny on what belongs to who. Maybe theres discoverable information on why this neighbor might be particularly covetous of the land.Appreciate the detail about the daughter learning to read, though it feels like that detail would be hard to discover unless there is more surrounding this story that could allow players to learn and exploit that. I think all characters could benefit from something like that.Maps look great, layouts good, love the inclusion of the side profile.Just needs some zazz
>>97245800Too bad you got no answer. :)
>>97162687Ran the Iron Coral from the ItO book for christmas.Been using ItO for ages but handn't run that one. Good times. Felt a bit sparse on treasure but liked getting back to a very stripped down keying. 2 dead, 2 escaped, one player rerolled as one opf the crabpeople. The big venus flytrap mouth didn't seem like a great encounter, wasn't sure if being eaten by the monster dropped off in the room behind it so I ran with that. Converted a 5e critroll fag to rules light, felt good. Took them a bit to realize their backstory and trying to identify the monsters as wotcdnd monsters wasn't important but when they did they got really into it.
Are all NSR games similarly grounded as OSR? Or are there high powered versions.
>>97235271Cairn, Mork Borg (art free version), Mausritter, The Black Hack, Black Sword Hack (its SRD has all rules but no art)
>>97251227It's hard to say anything definitive about NSR games as a whole, there's a ton of variety. OSR gets high powered at the upper end, though, and if you want really high powered, Godbound exists and is no worse than Exalted.
>>97251272i was wondering because from what i've seen most systems seem to just make you roll together your class and stats and then you come back after getting chopped to bits. and that's why there is 50 pages of classes. and a game that's not as deadly would be more easily pitched to people that only ever played 5e.
>knock knock>detect magic>identifyare those really necessary? what system got rid off that baggage?
>>97251264>Mork Borg (art free version)How long is that, two pages?
These /osrg/ and /nusrg/ bumps are getting sadder and sadder.
>>97252278Why would you bother to post that?
>>97252544Because he's a collosal faggot, duh
>>97251264Carin and mork borg are very shit games. Mausritter is only sort of free it works best with the peripherals which you can print on your own but not as well as what comes with the box, Black Hack is also trash. I'll check out the Black Sword Hack, although anything that has >hack in its name is already dubious.
>>97252278They still have a long way to go until they reach the sadness level of the """free OSRG""" troll thread.
>>97252554Mork Borg is a fractal masterpiece where every mechanic is a seed for infinite diegetic complexity, it's rules dense in a way that implies entire subsystems most people simply lack the processing power to unpack. a single agility test here contains more ludonarrative gravity than an entire Player's Handbook of feats and subclasses combined because the system doesn't need to explain the world - it mathematically enforces it.in 100 years, when every other system is just dust in the landfill of forgotten mediocrity, Mork Borg will be the only thing left standing, studied by future civilizations as the Rosetta Stone of pure ludology.
>>97253301To be fair you have to be very high IQ to understand rulelite coffee table books.
>>97254286LOOK AT ME, MORKYI TURNED MYSELF INTO A BORGBORG RICK
>>97257227>the pickle meme >a thinking man's macro
>>97252554Honestly Mork Borg is pretty fun as long as you take it as intended, i.e. not seriously. Cairn is absolute dogshit for attention-starved redditors though.
>>97264070why? i only recently started reading up on osr and nsr stuff and cairn gets talked about pretty often
>>97267726Cairn's fine, he's just being hyperbolic. Its main sin is lacking a distinct 'identity'. I prefer Errant as an evolved version of Cairn btw
>>97252194around 40 something I think>>97251424>and that's why there is 50 pages of classes.what games are you thinking of?Cairn 2e and Bastionland have a lot of "classes" but it's more like backgrounds than a class.
>>97267726It's called bait.Cairn is just ItO with an extra rule for longer term damage, but 2e added some pretty nice procedures. People who skipped on B/X can use those to still have a mechanically engaging and consistent exploration system, it's debatable if they are the best but they are there and they've been throughly playtested.
>>97273081>People who skipped on B/XCan and should kill themselves
>>97267726Cairn is literally just "what if I wanted to play Basic D&D but I was too retarded?". It has no qualities or advantages compared to something like Moldvay, thus can't justify its existence.
I ran Miami 86. For a Cairn hack I have to admit it handled shoot outs much better than expected. I'm not sure how much my players retained it was 80's Miami, I started worrying I was being overbearing when describing random stuff just to help the vibe. Pseudo 80's shit a la Stranger Things kinda killed a lot of things that also existed in the 80's, but that's how vintage goes. Still, I wish the system had something I can't imagine that solves that issue, it's not that it's a bad book but it's hard to run when you need everyone at the table to have a certain cultural reference point.I still have to see how well it works for longer campaigns. It has some support with NPCs and locations and generators, but I feel it's all a bit weak.
>>97276717>can't imagine why people would play more than one game>literally incapable of imagining someone using different things for different moments>calls others retardedDon't do this. I know you're trying to bait to get a bump. You can do that once or twice a thread, but if you do it a dozen times the thread is just shit and no one wants to be part of it.This general doesn't need constant posting, it needs new people checking and getting into it.Go learn from the horror or mecha generals.
>>97278104While I undersatand your suspicions, I'm sorry to have to inform you that i am 100% sincere and not bumpfagging. Mork Borg (as much as it gets memed on), Mythic Bastionland, Vaults of Vaarn, Black Sword Hack etc. are all games with a sound justification for existing, games that provide something unique of their own. You don't have to value them but the people who do have good reasons for it.Cairn is like Knave: it's just a half-finished shitbox for people who can't tolerate B/X's roughly thirty pages of rules and that's brainless and contemptible. (And Cairn 2e is like Knave 2e is that it's still just as unfinished but tries to mask that with a profusion of trash tables)
>>97278340B/X printed version when
>>97278728you can order it, it's POD in dtrpg or whatever
>>97278092how do you run an osr-adjacent game without magical healing?you might want to check out Cartel (the pbta Narcos game) or the 100 Bullets comic for inspiration, it's like a modernized digestible take on the era without the kids on bikes trope.
>>97279021>how do you run an osr-adjacent game without magical healing?In ItO games you have 1d6hp that recovers with minimal resting but all attacks hit. Damage above your hp is taken down from your stats. Functionally what is called "HP" is actually consumable AC. If your stats go down you roll under your new lowered stat and if you fail it's a crit. I don't recall how it goes in ItO but in this one crit damage means you're down until someone takes an action to help you. People went down and up all the time. Any hit has a high chance of downing you, anyone can pick you up, you are constantly more and more likely to go down with any hit.That aspect went pretty good, the players had multiple options and tried things I doubt they would in other settings/systems.The mechanics for automatic weapons are also pretty good and in-line with the system. You roll a die for each target and everyone gets the lower one. That means each new target probably lowers the damage, but after a couple rounds all HP is spent so any damage could be critical and get them out of the fight.It was a decent one shot. I just wish I had some better way to make players adapt to a different genre. I recalll 100 Bullets being more grunge than glam. I wanted that Phil Collins playing over a shoot out kind of vibe, the closest players got was wantign Push It To The Limit playing all the time. But I read like over a decade ago.
>>97279136>I don't recall how it goes in ItOSimilar but deadlier. Failing a critical damage roll means you're out of action until someone else gets to you and you have a short rest to restore HP. If no one gets to you in an hour you're dead. Sounds like the Miami 86 helping each other up is faster and fits the fleshwound action run and gun vibe. Combat in ItO can get very deadly very quickly if enough party members get hit and taken out of action. Tends to result in TPK or a few survivors running away in my experience. Might try the 86 method next time.
I'm looking to run Dead Weight for Mothership as an introductory one-shot. Does anyone have experience in tracking/progressing time as the ship falls apart? I'm particularly aware that as written Renato’s body breaches the reactor two hours after the incident. I'm leaning to have this occur about halfway through the night, with the activities needed to jettison the pearl artificially eating up in-game time so the climax at the seventh hour comes at a faster real team pace. However, having the player's work up until that point undone is a bit of a risk.
>>97280269It makes sense. ItO wants you to avoid combat as much as possible, M86 really wants you to get a shoot out with the cops.There's also rules for chases, very small, but they're there and you get some example cars and boats so you can use them as reference. It's a nice ItO clone, nothing crazy, but covers some bases in case you didn't know how to approach them and has some nice inspo. I also got it from the share thread so it's a lot for free.
>>97280484Secret countdowns never worked for me. You could go the BitD route and have a pizza slice clock on the table, more gamey and players can act accordingly to clear canonical information.I usually lie a bit because anything you do to inform them of stuff they shouldn't use to decide is gonna break immersion. At that point just make it as dramatic as possible.
>>97280484try narrating knock-on environmental effects like stuff detaching loudly in the distance or have a fire break out and an alarm go off. if they spend time investigating, give them a fair estimate of time left.
>>97280802I've run BitD, and I agree with the pros/cons of the clock. I think for Mothership, it makes it too meta-gamey and doesn't suit the horror setting where you should never have complete information. But thinking about it in the way you've set out has helped. If the players can't control it/take decisions based on it, move it earlier so it acts as a shock rather than as a complication. They're unlikely to go to the reactor first as the power is still on. Thanks.>>97281127I think I'll write in that there's a transponder on Renato’s suit so the bridge can pick it up.
>>97281270This more about movies, but Hitchcock once said that you can either have surprise or suspense.>Surprise: Two men are talking in a bar. Their table blows up.>Suspense: Someone sets up a bomb. Two men sit down and start talking. You see the clock ticking and getting closer to blowing up. Then it blows up.It's kinda similar. If they have meta information you can use it to create suspense, but you'll lose impact. If you focus on impact you can't really build it up without killing it.
>>97281270>>97280802Wait does Blades make the MC clocks from pbta player facing? That's fucking dumb.
>>97282297that's actually genius and it can be picked apart endlessly from different angles why it's geniusbut the most basic tldr; idea>have a timer>players don't know about the timer>it doesn't go off in the endwell then it might have been non-existent at allwhat purpose did it serve?when you have a player facing timer it immediately creates suspense and tensionit does many other things to improve a game but this alone is enough to warrant player facing timers in your games
>>97283531Anon, having the players know there is a timer, advancing it and communicating that through narration and events thus letting the tensions and events build diagetically is gm101. If you have players who aren't fucking retarded and you can actually run a game, tension and suspense happens through actual play. If you need a visual aid to track sure why not. Don't put the information about what the phases of the clock do or how many there are on the board unless its something like 10 Candles.
>>97229580>Waaah it's harder for me to steal ur evilDo OSRbabies really act like this?
>>97283531I think it works really well in BitD as you have the flashback system. The whole system is a genre send up of heist films, so it plays as how much narrative the players can force before their mistakes catch up with them. You normally have a "bad thing" clock, and something is about to happen that advances it. The players need to decide if they spend their stress now to make up a story to escape the consequences or save it for later.Other PbtA systems like Mothership don't have real ways to fight to clock, and so it becomes like you said - it is redundant because it either doesn't go off or it kills tension or play pace because players agonise over a tangible bit of "real" information. Mothership can get away with being based upon PbtA because it's meant to be especially lethal. Most modules have at least a full refresh of characters sitting around, it plays like an old-school filter adventure sometimes.
>>97286139>PbtA systems like Mothershiplolwut
>>97287199probably OP bumping the thread with chatGPT generated nonsense
>reeeeing that player-facing clocks are boardgamey trash while playing a literal Chainmail wargame port
>>97287199Everything is pbta if you want it to be I guess.
>>97289414>literal chainmail wargame port Wrong thread. The group combat or battle rules in Into the Odd are lackluster, do any of the nusr/posr game mange to do mass combat interestingly? Forbidden Psalms did not look very good.
Got told to ask in here because of a lot of shitposting, and looking at the bottom of the thread I kinda believe it.Anyone have the answer to this post? >>97293851
>>97293893>Classless Into the Odd is classless and works well with it and encouraging the gameplay style you like. Maze Rats is not quite classless and ok. Good tables to use regardless. There's probably more but those are the two that come to mind. >levelless No idea sorry, don't swing that way. >solo Scarlet Heroes is great but its not classless or levelless. Does a good job of being pulp hero action for solo or 1 player games. The class and level features aren't intrusive but if they're a deal breaker it might not work. There's a stripped down version called Exemplars & Eidolons, no real opinion on it, just know its a thing.
>>97293992>Into the OddThank you friend, I've been meaning to look into that one. That and Maze Rats. I've heard of Scarlet Heroes and that's not off the plate cause I remember liking how it works seamlessly with the stats. I'll keep looking if anyone else has suggestions too.
>>97294016There's 3ish Into the Odd rulebooks, the original, the reprint and the one that came with Silent Titans. The reprint is likely your best bet although I like the original for being very short. The Silent Titans one has an expanded character creation table but its customized for the setting.
>>97293893I think Dragonbane is classless and levelless. I'm not sure though because I haven't read or played it myself, just read about it.
>>97294122>>97293893It's not really classless. Characters can branch off into other classes with heroic abilities, but it's a chore.It's kinda levelless, but you get stats that can improve with each session, and heroic abilities than can improve your HP and Willpower. So a character who only played 1 session will be noticeably less skilled than someone who went through 10 sessions.But yeah, it's not like DnD, where a lvl 10 character will wipe the floor with a lvl 8 character.
>>97295146>It's kinda levelless, but you get stats that can improve with each session, and heroic abilities than can improve your HP and Willpower. So a character who only played 1 session will be noticeably less skilled than someone who went through 10 sessions.That's fair, but at the same time, isn't that the case for practically every levelless game? There's virtually always *some* advancement system, unless you're playing Traveller, or something designed for one-shots. I at least assumed that Anon still wanted a game with advancement.
>>97295167Idk, I just said what the Anon really wants, I just gave what info I know about Dragonbane.By the way, I enjoy it a lot, but then, I play it with TTRPG noobs. It's pretty barebone and you really need to homebrew a lot of stuff in. I'm not sure if any DnD veteran here would enjoy it. But it's okay for new TTRPG fans who don't want to read a ton of rules and dwelve into character builds.
>>97295167>>97295180Just to clarify, usually what happens when I feel the urge to try to get a functioning group together is I think through what stories I kind of want, and what usually happens at that point is I'll start imagining events I would love to see in my fantasy fiction, like for example the group sits down at a campfire and begins sharing things with each other.This is the point where my turbo autism flares up: I start thinking about the thief teaching the fighter how to lockpick, or the Wizard teaching the Paladin a spell. Especially with the lock pick, my real life knowledge knows that it only takes like 2-3 minutes to teach someone how to pick a lock. There's no reason the entire party can't figure out how to do that, and likely they can teach each other magic or something. But then I look at classic D&D and realize that this scene cannot happen. Hell, it couldn't happen reliably in post-WotC D&D either cause you'd need feats and shit.Sure, someone could say "well teaching them to do something is way different than them being skilled enough for a level 1 skill of the class," but the issue I have with that is that it feels like you're retrofitting a failure of the system with an after-market excuse, rather than having a system that can facilitate and encourage that scene to happen organically. So I'm looking for something that comes close to that. And also because the video games I like, I tend to prefer RPGs that are more like adventures and have a single character that can more-or-less learn to do everything than I do replaying the game 12 times to try every class combination.
>play shadowdark, excited for fast paced sessions as finally players see how much time they're wasting>it still takes 15 minutes to go around the table with most PCs still literally not doing anythingThe whole indie RPG movement thinks that there's some magic set of rules that will make their games better, but rules will never make bad players good. They will just stop having fun and play anyway out of obligation.
>>97295612you literally want d100/brp/runequest. It's a classless, leveless set of systems that feature small organic skill growth according to use and most iterations have a segment about downtime skill rolls and learning either from the community, a trainer, your friends etc.Even though i think that you are really undershooting the rigors of traveling the wilderness if you think that after a full day of hard travelling your party members will have the energy, the desire, the attitude,and the will to try and learn new skills. Also lockpicking isnt a 5 minutes deal. A friend taught me once, but it took me an eternity to open some locks. Things require serious practice for consistency and speedEither way, nor dnd nor oosr nor nsr will fill the void you seek to fill. These are gamist systems, which is why classes all have their protcted niches, not simulationist games
>>97296248>>97295612I removed thief years ago and haven't looked back. Everyone can use lockpick sets, just takes time. Eveyone can try to be sneaky. Everyone can try and learn spells from scrolls and spellbooks and magi, might not have the capacity based on stats but thems the breaks. Same for fighting. Still explores dungeons, still has enough compatibility to be nusr.
>>97295914Time pressure doesn't just come from player realizations about resource management. It also comes from the gm telling players >you're in a dangerous place, you need to make a decision now and being firm about it. Being stuck with a lame player because of social issues happens but I've found they can be at least pushed into not taking forever with direct moving game worlds. Torches as irl time is a bad meme though.
>>97287199Fishfag has never played ever, he uses chatgpt
>>97296248>Also lockpicking isnt a 5 minutes deal. A friend taught me once, but it took me an eternity to open some locks. Things require serious practice for consistency and speedI dunno about that. My friend gave me a set of lockpicks and I was cracking shit open in my own home within 2 minutes. I can grant the idea that you did mean "some" locks, but it's still a 2 minute thing you can do, and locks now are far more advanced than they would have been in a medieval-style setting without any magic. It's definitely not a "1 whole level sink" of your life though. I'd say a level is probably at least 2-3 years of training or the rough equivalent.>These are gamist systems, which is why classes all have their protcted niches, not simulationist gamesI definitely don't agree with this or the whole "Sim/Nar/Gam" trifecta. The game is meant to simulate certain aspects to different levels of abstraction. I think if an abstraction fails to even somewhat simulate an aspect, then that portion just simply fails and fails to be interesting.I will, however, take a look into the BRP system. I know Cthulhu and I believe Mothership are modeled on it and I've had a side-eye on Mothership for a horror game.
>>97296248Sorry, maybe this is a dumb question, but isn''t Dragonbane a d100 BRP?
>>97284421Their brains are smooth like marbles so turning one stat block into a new system is beyond them, even though there are like, six real stats in OD&D.
>>97297838not exactly. it is based on the previous d100 edition but streamlined heavily to a d20 roll under which works pretty much the same.if i had to describe it, it would be like what an nsr with some mechanical fidelity game is to the osr>>97297192anon i dont refute your ability with a lockpick. people have certain skills that others dont. Lockpicking was never the core feature of the thief class imo. It was those other near supernatural abilities.I think that doing away with skills restrictions is perfectly fine, but i prefer if character concepts still retain an edge at their specific niche>yeah i didnt elaborate on the whole simulationist thing. What i meant to say was that those systems branded as simulationist care and put much effort to simulate the mechanics of skills and learning and skill progression while dnd has a very gamist approach to that aspect, despite having some very simulationist approaches to other stuff like torches, keeping real time, encumbrance, etcdo check out magic world if you want d100 generic medieval fantasy and mythras if you want iron bronze age fantasy
>>97298190>Lockpicking was never the core feature of the thief class imo.I never said it was. But it is a fact that getting the ability to pick locks per the rules requires you to be a level 1 thief in all but White Box or other thiefless systems, whereas reality would show that this is a different story.>I think that doing away with skills restrictions is perfectly fine, but i prefer if character concepts still retain an edge at their specific nicheI mean I appreciate that for you too. But I'm just shopping around looking for systems that overlap the needs I want from OSR (procedural, low-power scaling, emphasis on exploration and less upon pointless skill trees like 5e, etc), and a way for this game to be able to fit a more flexible skillset to help match more of the fantasy I want to experience from in my head. Hell, since I haven't really played it yet, I don't know if I really do want it yet! But I want to give a shot and see how it shapes what I'm looking for.>Magic WorldI'll add it to the list.
>>97298190>not exactly. it is based on the previous d100 edition but streamlined heavily to a d20 roll under which works pretty much the same.>if i had to describe it, it would be like what an nsr with some mechanical fidelity game is to the osrOh okay cool, I have to admit that to me personally d20 BRP and d100 BRP are pretty exactly functionally equivalent BUT I don't deny that it's a distinction and I did think it was d100 based, so good to know.
