Are there any mech games where the mechs are a sideshow to other vehicles? I like the idea of blowing up mechs with superior conventional vehicles but basically every mech setting ever made exists to justify the opposite of that happening.
warhammer 40k but that has the downside that you have to play warhammer 40k
because a setting that has mecha justifies the mecha being better than traditional machines. if the mecha aren't, they would never be used to begin with.
>>97181897You can still have mechas as long you invent some niche where they excel in the setting (such as urban combat), but nobody would field them outside of that environment.
>>97181927sure but that goes for anything in a tactical setting. you dont send heavy armor into narrow streets, you dont send unsupported troops to assault a fortified position.
>>97181897In Battletech conventional vehicles are still used despite mechs existing because they're cheaper and simpler to produce. Just flip that around.
>>97182034Then it's not a mech game.
>>97181927In theory. But that just goes against OP's point anyway, where if the mechs only show up where they're useful, then the conventional vehicles aren't going to be superior in that context. So there's not going to be many opportunities for blowing them up.
>>97182058If it has mechs in it, it's a mech game.
Oh I'm sorry, did you go recommendation baiting for cheap subversions and you got fantasy vehicles dabbing on conventionals forever? Jeeze. That's rough. Maybe you should make like 100 more threads trying different angles to get people to give you recommendations.
>>97181850Then it's not a "mech game", it's a game with mechs.AT-43 might scratch your itch.
>>97182540>Then it's not a "mech game", it's a game with mechs.There's no real difference
>>97181927>You can still have mechas as long you invent some niche where they excel in the setting (such as urban combat), but nobody would field them outside of that environment.Light Woods says hi!
>>97181850no one likes playing against parking lots
>>97181850WH40K is just that, but because mechs are lostech and very rare.
>>97181850Manticors and Demolishers? 12 Longtom Cannons 26 boards away and a concealed spotter is how you deal with mechs.
>>97181850>12 tracked vehicles with no more than 6 MP>Have to deal with various problems that come from being tracked like poor movement in dense terrain>Tracks can take damage and turn the tank into a turret>Can suffer a crit that causes all of its ammo to go up and kill the crew>In BV you could take two lances of mechs of average 1,500 BV>In C-bill cost you could probably make a lance of average 7.3 million C-bills each work>They all have about the same front armor, 40 to make it even. They'd go down one after another in focused fire while the tanks are forced to spread their damage out even if they focus one mech and depending on where they pick their fight the tanks won't have as much TMM to work with while the mechs can keep their maximum TMM in all situations>Tanks might be able to threaten headcaps if they're lucky or bring down light mechs if they're out of position>Ultimately it'd come down to where the fight happens, open field the tanks have an advantage, wooded area the mechs would have a large advantage. But with their generally superior movement options mechs would be able to dictate where the engagement happensMechs need to respect combat vehicles, but in this case you'll need more than just tanks to win. I know that isn't the point of what your topic was, I just wanted to analyze the pic related.
>>97182984Why would you deploy from a dropship into a seemingly empty map square? You could just stay up until you found the artillery and deployed there instead. I dunno why people forget mechs deploy from super advanced go-anywhere dropships.
>>97181850Heavy Gear, sort of. The game tries to stress that Gears are not intended to be replacements to tanks and that tanks are viable and super dangerous. But they also only stat out like ten tanks vs a thousand mechs and most of said tanks have really stupid looking designs you wouldn't want to use anyway.
>>97182555So is this a green image?
>>97181850Heavy Gear.
>>97183103The tank heavy faction is indeed very tank heavy. I've never played with or against them (Paxton Legs Company for life!), but they sure are there.
>>97181850Firelock 198X, albeit it's one faction that has mechs. They're basically android elves made from early 90s Cold War Tech.
>>97183423From the thumbnail I thought the green spot was a tiny based pepe.I am now sad.
>>97186426Good. Frogshitters don't deserve nice things.
>what if we took [genre] but made it lame?
>>97186426Don't be sad friend. >>97186597Oh hush.
>>97182058If everything on the table is a giant mech then nothing is a giant mech. Contrast and scale are good things. Most battles in battletech are fought without mechs or with a small ammount of them. Also battletech mechs are maximum 13m (15 with the new scale) tanks and helicopters are not smaller than mechs, a shame the models are scaled to look like pacific rim robots. In infinity you play 1 or 2 mechs max, mixed with other troops.
>>97183103>>97186281that game looks interesting, I'll give it a try in TabletopSimthanks
>>97187095>Today the Tennessee Titans will be playing the New York Giants, making both teams appear regular size.
>>97187095>Most battles in battletech are fought without mechs or with a small ammount of them.This is absolutely not true. At minimum whatever force is on the offensive will be using almost entirely mechs.
>>97187213Three points of Pride!
>>97186426But is the image green?
>>97187224I think he meant battles in the in universe wars. Most Mechs are more like Calvary in universe, you use them when you need the mobility and power to assault a position. Plus they're easy to drop basically anywhere with dropships. Most garrisons are probably mostly tanks and infantry with a lance or two of mechs if your position is important.
>>97187224Yeah not really, in most eras mechs are rare, most planets don't have mechs. Also you have the republic era were mechs are also not common. Yes the great houses have a lot of mechs same for some mercenary companies but the galaxy is a big place and most planets are inconsequential or with low population.
>>97187252Super green.
>>97187275If your planet has a jumpship and dropships to invade another planet it's going to have mechs.
>>97183053Classic battletech has to many rules to make tanks bad on purpose. Mobility crits should be way less common to begin with.
>>97187300Because battletech is inspired by anime, and anime has tanks being blown up by superior mechs.
>>97187291Believe whatever fantasy makes you happier.
>>97187300It kind of makes sense in a way. Tanks are pretty vulnerable to being tracked in real life. Though the argument could be made about the legs on mechs being more vulnerable.
>>97187313Nigga jumpships are way less common than mechs
>>97187291>If your planet has a jumpshipWhat are you, a Successor State?!
>>97187317As you say, bipedal legs are way more prone to mobility damage or kills than just tracks. Tanks by design will always be more resilient and armoured than any mech ever designed unless it starts having energy shields or something like that.
>>97187322One of the sides in combat will be since you can't have two planets fighting each other if one of them doesn't have a way to get to the other.
>>97187357Light Woods says Hi again.
>>97187322Aren't most jumpships owned by Space AT&T?
>>97187365Or you rent a Jump Collar like everyone else.>>97187382>Aren't most jumpships owned by Space AT&T?I'm not sure, I sort of figured they were independent entities, ComStar was probably one of the few remaining Jumpship manufacturers at the height of the Succ Wars.
>>97187373I always found mechs being able to navigate woods and tanks having trouble a little silly in BT. I'd think the stompy robot would have more trouble moving around trees than the tanks would.
>>97187401>Or you rent a Jump Collar like everyone else.You still need to have the dropship. And space on board the ship is at a premium so you can't afford to fit hardly any conventional forces on board.
>>97187404Well part of that is people severally over estimate the off-road capabilities of tanks; A good stump might give a tank pause while a Mech will hopefully stride right over it.>>97187410>And space on board the ship is at a premium so you can't afford to fit hardly any conventional forces on board.And if you aren't backed up by conventional forces, all you're going to be able to do is raid because BattleMechs suck when faced with attrition.
>>97187425>BattleMechs suck when faced with attritionQuite the opposite, battlemechs are able to attrition their enemies down much better because they take a fraction of the damage while dishing out far more damage and getting to decide on what terms the battle happens, as well as having superior logistics.
>>97187410Honestly that's probably WHY Mechs are so good. You can carry a lance in one of the dinkiest and most common dropships available and they can make a severe dent. Then bring in your conventional forces to actually hold the place for a longer period of time. Like I said in another post, they're cavalry.
>>97187441*Laughs in MechTech*
>>97187450Sure but they're heavy medieval knights in the early middle ages when nobody had pike formations yet. There is no counter to a mech, they're blatantly superior in every way.
>>97187457*Laughs in Grey Death Legion*Get better bait troll...
>>97187463>Grey Death Legion....the battlemech mercenaries? Your counter-example is...more battlemechs? What?
>>97187473And thus you out yourself that you know nothing about the first piece of BattleTech fiction...
>>97187480So you're just making shit up then. You don't know about the Shadow Hawk piloted by Captain Grayson Death Carlyle, or the Wolverine, Locust, Rifleman, Stinger, and two Wasps piloted by Delmar Clay - Wolverine, Lori Kalmar, Davis McCall, Hassan Ali Khaled, Piter Debrowski, andd Jaleg Yorulis. You haven't read anything, you're just spouting random words.
>>97187273The garrison conventionals are usually more like rear line troops, especially the infantry, and are not likely to get into actual fights. If raiders are coming in hot, the infantry will most likely be placed in and around critical buildings and the most likely targets, the tanks will be spread out all around the outer perimeter to catch runners and flankers, and the mechs will be up front and directly in line with the enemy, with the addition of whatever tanks were unfortunate enough to be on the correct side of the net.
>>97187404Tank traps are almost entirely just the bases of trees but made and placed where you want them. A stump is natures way of keeping tanks humble and in their place.
>>97187499So how did you like Sarna?And what weapon did Greyson Carlyle threaten Lori's 100 ft Doom Locust with WHILE HE WAS ON FOOT?!
>>97181850Like these guy said >>97183103 >>97186158, a tank will slime a mech in combat most of the time. Once you get into something like gear striders it's more even, especially since the original gear strider was specifically built to bust tanks. But the two poster factions only have 2 tanks with a couple variants between them and the third posterboy faction doesn't even use tanks.And it's a shame because there are tanks like the mongol mentioned in the fluff that have just never been expanded upon and I want more combines arms. The recon hun it my go to southern command unit
>>97187997You mean him and his MULTIPLE LANCES OF MECHS? Hell, the Grey Death Legion is an unusually heavy mech force that doesn't have much in the way of combined arms.
oh shit he doesn't know kek
>>97188085lollmao even>22 mechs>20 infantry>2 aircraftYeah having more mechs than infantry is super combined arms
>>97187997Gruntniggers will see one scene where a female pilot in an inaccurate mech goes crazy from ptsd and surrenders for basically no real reason and think "yep, boots on the ground have still got it...">>97188021Heavy gear does the votoms thing where mechs are like 1/3rd of the price of a tank instead, and they can still fuck them up with anti-tank loadouts. It's just flipping the script in a way that makes mechs come out on top again.
>>97188103>Gruntniggers will see one scene where a female pilot in an inaccurate mech goes crazy from ptsd and surrenders for basically no real reason and think "yep, boots on the ground have still got it..."Hey it may be crazy, but it worked.Shit heads who think Mechs are "GODS OF THE BATTLEFIELD" will end up dying to a Vedette.
>>97188092...what do you think combined arms means?
>>97188156Mechs are indeed gods of the battlefield though. That's all just retcon cope. Some angry retard fans got into the writing room and started demanding infantry be able to shoot mechs to death with their rifles and actually got their way for a while.Thankfully fixed with the modern asset rules, where literally everything but mechs is expendable and basically auto-dies after being targeted for a set amount of time. It's good to see mechs back up on top where they belong.
>>97188182It's 'technically' combined arms but not in a satisfying way. I don't want to play a game where mechs trash infantry and conventional vehicles over and over to show off how much better they are than everything else.
>>97188218Nah mechs still aren't an auto win. Even the mighty Atlas has to give a little respect to the Demolisher if he meets him in the wrong place. It's all in how you use both. A tank IS still generally less deadly than a Mech. But a gun is a gun. And you're rarely running into a tank by itself.
>>97188218>>97188236*Laughs in LRM Carrier*
>>97188282>Laughs in LRM mechs
>>97188236>having roughly 50/50 mechs and conventional isn't combined arms lol okay anon
>>97188317There's literally more mechs than there are infantry.
>>97188351>20 infantry+2 aircraft >22 mechs So its only combined if its exactly the same amount of everything? Where are you going with this? Its obviously retarded.
>>97181850>are there any fantasy games where swords are a sideshow to the guns?
>>97188282>Dies to one LRM counterbatteryLove these things but you have to constantly babysit them and make sure their positioning is perfect.
>>97188360Well I don't want a setting where the infantry are outnumbered by the mechs, there.
>>97188291*Laughs in LRM Carrier EVEN LOUDER*
>>97188379>Laughs in Archer even harder
>>97188385>>97188368>Love these things but you have to constantly babysit them and make sure their positioning is perfect.Which is why you indirect fire Anon.
>>97188369So you admit there are many forms of combined arms. And you want a setting where there are more infantry than mechs. Which is all the settings ever with mechs. So we're done here. Glad you figured it out.
>>97188407>Which is all the settings ever with mechs.Not Battletech apparently.
>>97188422So you want a game, not a setting. Try and keep up anon. I get you're salty and retarded but do try and not choke to death on your own tongue.
>>97188249>A tank IS still generally less deadly than a Mech>you're rarely running into a tank by itselfThey're the budget option but they're not even that much cheaper. At most they have the niche of being able to quickly arm less skilled/trained crews when you have a surplus of men. People will point out that some tanks are particularly powerful but they usually cost just as much as a mech but with less flexibility in use and more potential crew loss.I dunno why all the gruntfags don't just get into battle armor anyway. Instead they really want totally regular guys to beat up mechs all the time with very little justification. There's the little anti-mech armored soldiers right there. You can actually stand a chance that way.
>>97188438Battletech is also a setting. They are not mutually exclusive.
>>97188446>They're the budget option but they're not even that much cheaper.What tanks are you buying that are as expensive as Battlemechs?!>Instead they really want totally regular guys to beat up mechs all the time with very little justification.Because some of us aren't going to have power armor, so we have to lure Mechs into grease factories.
>>97188450In the setting there are always necessarily more infantry than mechs except in clan trial in the majority of conflicts. Your demands are impossible as you state them. So take a bit, try really hard and actually figure out what you want. Then explain it.
>>97188465>In the setting there are always necessarily more infantry than mechsExcept when there aren't, see the Grey Death Legion
>>97188476>Again the troll uses the Mercenary unit know for teaching guerilla anti-mech infantry tactics as proof of Mech superiority
>>97188483Well they must not particularly believe in those anti-mech infantry tactics if they're not even willing to have as many infantry as they have mechs.
>>97188459Tanks aren't worth their weight in mech. Two tanks at the cost of one mech aren't equal to that one mech. They even tested it on /btg/. The mech can also be deployed in more ways, in more locations, with a wider variety of refits, so in the long run they get even more cost efficient.
>>97188485>if they're not even willing to have as many infantry as they have mechsOk dumbass, you remember someone in this thread mentioning how expensive it is to move troops in this setting, right?So, instead of paying a merc outfit out the ass to import a bunch of troops, you can instead hire this much smaller outfit that will then teach your bumfuck local militia all the tricks for ass-raping Mech forces.>>97188507>They even tested it on /btg/.Buddy you are talking to the guy who made a budget fusion PPC Tankette.This thing cost a little over a third of an Urbanmech and two can definitely outfight one.
>>97188541>you can instead hire this much smaller outfit that will then teach your bumfuck local militiaDoesn't exactly work out great if you're invading an enemy planet and they outnumber your infantry force by 20,000 to 1.
>>97183423It is black and white and green. If you reversed it, and the lady was green and the spot on her shoulder was black and white, it would still be black and white and green.
>>97188541Custom builds aren't canon. They don't make things they don't make because they can't and the system does not fully reflect their actual capabilities in universe, otherwise everyone would just be using jumper mechs that can't ever be hit.
>>97188651I make my own Canon, with Hookers in Blackjacks!
>>97187425To a point, but that's also what dozer blades and combat engineers are for. There's definitely something to be said for the amount of piloting skill and training required for a mech to move through woods or rough ground without tripping, and Battletech severely under plays how much damage a 25 ton mech falling over would do, let alone the bigger ones. Every gun would be fucked and out of alignment (at least) and it should definitely not be so easy for them to stand back up, let alone continue to fight. A tank getting stuck is usually a death sentence if there isn't an ARV ready to pull it out, but the turret can still fight, and if it doesn't get blown up it'll be fine once it's freed, where the mech *should* be out of action. However a tank going through trees can very very easily get it's gun instantly wrecked if it hits a hardwood tree any thicker than your wrist and turret gets spun.Personally, I think a troop of 50 ton tanks with the same weapons as a lance of 50 ton mechs, and equally experienced crew/pilots; the low profile tanks would win against the towering easy targets every time, in a fair fight (which doesn't exist outside games anyway)
>>97188543Mechs have largely replaced the infantry role in Battletech. Mechs are common and cheap enough that they can spam them in enough numbers to give most of their professional military soldiers mechs.
>>97188156The idea of a little 5 ton tank, ripping across a battlefield at 216kph is fucking wild. Sign me up
>>97188748>Mechs are common and cheap enough that they can spam them in enough numbers to give most of their professional military soldiers mechs.Who the fuck are you, the SLDF?!>>97188761Ride eternal, shiny and chrome!
>>97188776>Who the fuck are you, the SLDF?!Nope, any mercenary group can do this.
>>97188725>the amount of piloting skill and training required for a mech to move through woods or rough ground without trippingIt handles foot placement and balance automatically. You don't need to individually control each foot and where it steps. It just works.>and equally experienced crew/pilotsThat means you need about quadruple or more crew.>the towering easy targets Mechs can crawl, crouch, poke their guns over terrain, etc. They don't have to stride around if they don't want to. A battlemech in line of sight can be a big rock with a gun arm being held around it.
>>97188874>That means you need about quadruple or more crew.It never did make sense to me that they don't just give neurohelmets to tank crews so they can control it with one man
>>97188885You would need a driver who is mentally capable of moving wheels, treads, or a hover skirt as naturally as he moves limbs. Also the main benefit is to directly translate the pilot's sense of balance and the mech's sense of where all its limbs are at any given moment into one fluid movement pattern. Vehicles are low to the ground and don't have limbs to flail out and significantly alter their center of gravity. The only real benefit would be the full 360° sensor awareness, but having a dedicated crew member to watch the radar and look at the camera feeds is almost as good for a fraction of the training time or expensive neurological interface that not everyone's brain is capable of using.
>>97188937>You would need a driver who is mentally capable of moving wheels, treads, or a hover skirt as naturally as he moves limbsThat doesn't make any sense. You just said that the mech handles those things automatically, you don't need to control it.
>>97188946At any appreciable speed, it has to use the pilot's sense of balance. You can slowly, methodically walk a mech in non-combat conditions without a neurohelmet. If you run, duck, hop, dodge, dip, or dive without a neurohelmet, it's going to turn horizontal and stay there. Vehicles can move at combat speeds without needing to tap into the pilots sense of balance.
>>97188946It handles them subconsciously unless you're a brand new pilot who's never used that mech before. You push the arm lever forward, the arm shoots out, and whether it punches, grabs, slaps, sweeps, or fistbumps something is based on the intention it reads through the neurohelmet. When a tree is in your way, you swipe the controls to the left and the mech leans way over on its next stride, clears the trees, then goes back to a neutral balance, because it read your intention to do that and used your sense of balance to not eat shit in the execution. There are things a vehicle could do with such control, but it's not a lot on the ground. Aerospace fighters use a variant of the neurohelmet to maneuver in air and space.
>>97188993That seems...pretty silly.
>>97188996It means you don't have to waldo it or sit there and program in every weird little movement you might have to do and then remember all the command macros in the middle of a firefight.
The takes in this thread are so retarded I needed to scroll up and check I'm not in /btg/.
>>97188796>Nope, any mercenary group can do this.And they have there own orbital mech factory then?
>>97188996We're already halfway to doing this ourselves. You can control prosthetic arms with brain signals alone. It's probably one of the more well aged elements of the setting.
>>97189107And you know what's really stupid? There's been an effort to downplay what neurohelmets can do, there's a subset of fans and writers who want the neurohelmet to basically just be a portable MRI machine and that's it. The oldest lore had a bunch more described uses and feedback where it transmits information both in and out of the pilot's brain. There was even a derivative civilian version used in universities that beamed cliff notes and the direct text of citations into your head as they came up while you read scholastic literature.
>>97189130>there's a subset of fans and writers who want the neurohelmet to basically just be a portable MRI machine and that's itOh man I hate those types, you could do some real shit with that kind of Mind-Machine interface, but since that's too transhuman, they'd have neurohelmets be really expensive haptic feedback devices...
>>97189107Controlling stuff with neurohelmets is fineWhere battletech gets silly is all the restrictions it places on its tech to nerf every other vehicle and weapon. They think they sound scientific but they really just sound like a 5 year old shouting abut how "their mech can't be blown up cause it has the anti-everything forcefield and only mechs can have it and it has the anti-everything laser that penetrates lesser forcefields"
>>97189149I think they just come up with the rules first and bullshit the lore as they go along. I don't know what the creative process is like, but it would make sense.
>>97189149If you put all the mech tech in a tank, then you might as well have just made a mech. You made it just as expensive and trained a special pilot to the same standard.
>>97189227Yeah see, what I'd like to see is a setting that's the reverse of that, where the tank is the expensive but elite option compared to the mech
>>97188218Infantry wins wars, now and 1000 years in to tje future.
>>97189174Not even that, they started off with someone else's designs with different justifications and then made up their own setting with its own rules. They started with the designs of the mechs first and worked backwards.>>97189227People say "heh, that would just make a better tank..." but the tech is cheap, advanced, and reliable limbs and a mind-machine interface to make moving them natural and suddenly their tanks all have limbs, and they get really upset for some reason. That is a better tank. Your tank has been improved.
>>97189249Mechs ARE infantry. They do everything infantry does but better. That's why there's more mechs on the battlefield than there are infantry.
>>97189248Heavy Gear or maybe ChromeStrike. Most mech games are going to be about mechs though, because they're not tank games.
>>97189255Mechs can become tiny and get in to buildings now?
>>97189275Going inside buildings isn't super important when you don't need to use buildings as cover for your fragile body.
>>97181876This is only the case for imperial knights and tau. For everyone else it's >normal ass tanks>tank but it has a plow or some construction equipment welded onthe setting is tens of thousands of years in the future but everyone is still using modern day tanks? fucking really? Shit is trash>inb4 but they're actually firing super special fucking ammo hand crafted by ad-mech-I don't give a fuck, they look like normal ass modern tanks, they're not futuristic at all.
>>97187321Yes, however, they are also older technology, that has proliferated further into the periphery as humanity slowly spread among the stars; nobody can really say what the furthest outpost of human habitation is; it could be as much as twice the diameter of known space.
>>97189249What about wars in space? You gonna dig your trenches in the asteroids?Anyway infantry already got pretty owned by mechs becoming the premier weapons platform, but battle armor removed even their niche benefits. The one upside to infantry is that they are cheap and expendable, which is not an upside for the infantry themselves.
>>97189310>the setting is tens of thousands of years in the future but everyone is still using modern day tanks? fucking really? Shit is trash>I don't give a fuck, they look like normal ass modern tanks, they're not futuristic at all.The fun fact is, that specs-wise, 40k tanks are shittier than the early WW2 prototype ones, so there's nothing modern about them, other than some of the more sci-fi guns on some of them. Because 40k is essentially a WW1 game with a coat of science fiction paint.
>>97189451Eh that's more because the designers can't into scale. They throw around terms like the Baneblade having an IMPENETRABLE 200mm armor thickness! They try to save face by saying that the thickness is way more effective but it doesn't work that way.
>>97189482Sure would be a shame if someone were to superheat the armour and make it violently explode into a plasma... too bad no one in that universe has such a weapon
