>>97231198
>>97231198
>When was the last time your party fought a dragon in traditional combat?
I don't think they've ever had a "sit down and fight" fight with a dragon. My dragons are annoying bastards who strafe with breath weapons and spells, using Flyby Attack all the way.

pf1eg accepted

>>97231813
Pretty much this. I always cringe when I hear about parties just standing there slugging it out with creatures of enormous intelligence and high mobility until the dragon lets itself be killed. It's just dumb setpiece thinking: it's not hard to make the things so much more terrifying by just having them do what they can do right in their statline instead of getting a sudden case of stupids.

>>97231831
I guess there's Xorvintaal if the sorcerer thing makes you cringe, but even that gives all kind of bonuses to breath weapons

>>97231198
>Draconomicon
Gods I love that book.

>TQ
Define traditional combat.
A little over a month ago we were attacked by a young black dragon and his reinforcements (two flying serpent-parrot homebrew critters) while traveling with our flying ship.
It wasn't much of a challenge.
Now we are going after that dragon's mother. That'll be a fun fight I'm sure.

>>97231813
>sit down and fight
Yeah. It doesn't make much sense for that to happen unless you somehow force the dragon into those circumstances like fighting inside a cavern or something.

>>97231198
>Didn't post kino 2e art like the last 2 threads
We've posted all the boring book covers multiple times over anons, can we switch to kino D&D art for the default instead?

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>>97231875
I agree with this.
I like a lot of 3e's art, but 2e is a vibe.

>>97231843
>Xorvintaal
>but even that gives all kind of bonuses to breath weapons
So that's what it does huh?
That certainly explains why the last dragon we fought had some weird ass sonic breath weapon.

>>97231831
I mean, younger chromatic dragons are about as smart as the average person or slightly dumber. No dragon you fight from 10th level down is gonna be some alien super intelligence. Their charisma and wisdom are also generally only slightly above average until they go up in age a fair bit. A young black dragon, cr 5, could very conceivably be goaded into a full on terrestrial brawl. Especially any dragon caught inside its layer is gonna be pretty unlikely to go outside and fly around in circles while you plunder its treasures.

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>>97231888
Xorvintaal sucks out the sorcerer spellcasting and replaces it with bonuses to claws, breath, and other things that actually feel like a dragon. It's in MM5.
1/2

>>97231888
Pretty sure anon was taking about the hot, pantyless women from clyde calwell and larry elmore art pieces.

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>>97231918
2/2

>>97231916
I was definitely thinking older dragons, but fair point. Some young dumb dragon hopped up on "bow before me I'm the master race" energy would make a decent melee opponent, I suppose.

>>97231918
>>97231927
These are some cool powers, in particular Twist of Fate and Deep Breath, but losing SR fucking hurts. I'd probably drop that.

>>97231918
Then you can add the class levels and more back thanks to the retraining rules. You can turn HD into actual character levels because the System treats them as the same thing.

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>>97231922
I'm aware.
I stand by my statement.

>>97231918
>>97231927
Those are actually pretty sick.

>>97231918
>MM5
This was the best one IMO, which is funny cause MM4 fucking sucked ass

>>97231918
>MM5
>>97231927
Huh.
I could swear that the Xorvintaal stuff was in some FR book.

>>97232202
Could be. Sometimes things get printed in multiple sources

>>97232048
Did we ever find out what went wrong with that book? Because it's bizarrely bad.

>>97232048
>>97232808
What's so bad about it?

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>>97232820
MM4 just ind of sucks honestly. 40 pages of draconians nobody cares about for example. Most of the statblocks are meh.
MM5 was a decisive return to form and almost everything in it is cool. Spawn of Juiblex stand out as truly awesome.
1/2

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>>97232828
2/2