Why were so many of the "OG" game designers insufferable faggots? It seems like the vast majority of game designers from the 70s and 80s were self-obsessed dickheads who openly hated and looked down on their customer base. There were obviously exceptions, and some like Gygax would go on to regret and apologize for it, but still, what made so many "professionals" back then such fags?Pic related: WFRP author James Wallis's response to a letter criticizing how railroaded The Enemy Within campaign was.
>>97250997Because a lot of them are losers (in no small part because they were assholes) prior to elfgame notoriety, which many still felt some insecurity about because it was not good at paying the bills.
>>97250997Because they were following Gary's lead, mostly (like you noted). Informed by the belief that the "inventor" of RPGs insisted that the GM should be as adversarial as possible, if not outright malicious whenever they felt like it, they carried that belief forward into clumsily designing games. Just like how they believed the GM should be allowed to do whatever they want to the players, they believed they had that same level of authority as the creator of a game. They created the game. You didn't. You are inferior to them. You don't wield the unconditional social power they think they have. You don't get to question them, because only the most superior, intelligent, and coolest people can make games, and you didn't, so you don't get to judge them or criticize their blatantly retarded behavior.
If you want to see someone take the crown as the most insufferable faggot, look no further than Mentzer.His claim to fame was dick-riding Gygax and being his major goon and lackey, and as a designer was about as mid as you can be. He took control of the Basic D&D line, and stitched on some thoroughly mediocre rules that revealed that he really didn't have much talent as a designer.When Gygax was removed from TSR, Mentzer left with him, and they ended up making back-to-back complete failure systems that tried really hard to ride on the Gygax name but were absolutely god awful.But, the thing that really makes him the biggest faggot of all time is actually a message he sent on a forum that he dearly hoped would remain private (under threat of legal action). That recipient of that message, in an act of great bravery and self-sacrifice, daringly risked those legal repercussions in order to share to the world what happens when a man is consumed by his own ego.
>>97251684you're just mad because you're overtraining
>>97251504The worst part is that the adversarial GM/player culture outlived these assholes and even now it haunts the game
>>97250997Railroaders would have been way happier if they just stuck to video games.
>>97250997Because you're a little pussy? Read the letter that he is responding to. I bet that player will go to his grave remembering that game. Look, games like 1st edition WHRP and Call of Cthulhu were fun to play and also fun to watch as other players horribly die hoping that you will be the lucky one that survives. WHRP was no D&D. Mutation, insanity and gruesome death from the combat tables awaited you. They are called dark role playing games for a reason. It really sounds like you should stick to your My Little Pony RPG.
>>97251740Every time I hear DMs bragging about 'teaching their players a lesson' or players bragging about 'ruining campaigns' I wonder how these people even find anyone that tolerates them for long enough to play with
>>97251761They don't. Most of the time it's a made up story.
>>97251759Eh, 3/10. Some points because your stance is amusing, but bringing up "Oh pwease pwease let fate intervene and spare me!" WHRP as a "tough guy" game is where no one would be ever able to take you seriously.
>>97251770Those games bring different expectations to the table. You can't be that stupid not to see that. You do not plan on what your character's long term retirement plans will be in those as you will most likely never live long enough to see it.
>>97251759>the fun part is watching the pcs dieI really don't understand this mindset. I can sorta get Gygax's mindset >>97251504 because he was a very literal boomer about the game, he felt like it had to have an explicit winner and loser and that it was the GM and players' jobs to be each other's opponent, and that was where the fun came from. Meanwhile comments like this, James's response, or the shit you see on the Call of Cthulhu reddit sound less like "games should be adversarial, that's what makes them fun" and more like "games should be about the GM enjoying the players' suffering". One of those is faggy but is a way some people enjoy playing games, the other is autistic sadism. I could see playing at a table where the GM and players want to compete with each other, it could be fun if it's a group of good friends, but to go to a game where the only goal of the GM is to take a fictional shit on you and watch you wallow in it just sounds bizarre.
>>97251814You've mistaken me for someone interested in playing along with you.Next time, score at least a 5/10.
Noticing a funny trend for older /tg/ writers to be ludicrous, comedically adversarial and powergamey towards pretty much anyone. It's kind of like discovering a new drug before noticing the bad parts. We now know that meth has a few drawbacks, but it's funny reading stuff before they knew the dangers of getting a big weird gay nerd ego.
>>97251827Or rather, Gygax's attitude stemmed from his players doing the same. Everyone says he tried to fuck them over but no one mentions how his buddies did the same thing, they all thought it was in good fun, so when Gygax told you to fuck over your players, he did so with the expectation that they'd be giving back as good as they got.What you see from shit like >>97250997 >>97251684 are designers who're clearly very onesided. They want to fuck you over, but are offended and shocked at the thought of being challenged by the players, which was something Gygax encouraged.So the designers who were faggots "because that's what Gygax did" fundamentally misunderstood Gygax's entire mentality.
>>97250997Because 9/10 times the customers are even bigger insufferable faggots, just take a look around here and reddit. Now imagine how bad it was back when this hobby was exclusively the realm of the spergs.
>>97251827Part of the fun as a >player< in those game like Call of Cthulhu is watching other players make bad decisions and die. Hell, I have seen TPKs from one character losing enough sanity to go temporarily insane at the worse possible moment. Look, I get it. You don't like dark and grim RPGs. They are not for everyone.
