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A new thread. Happy New Year.
>Have you ever borged out or encountered borgs in your games?
The backstory for my current character is that they went cyberpsycho and got clapped by MAXTAC, only to be scraped off the pavement by a corp and put back together as a science project.

Haven't encountered any fully borged NPCs yet. I don't think the current crew is ready for that.

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stream recap
>Solo of Fortune coming soon (still no release date)
>parts of Rusted Chrome got moved to SoF
>SoF said to move games to military level
>new gun type: machine gun with autofire range bands
>more gun attachments
>missile launchers exist, not sure if attachment or new gun type
>interface 5 gets a mention but no release date

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>>97292231
>finally getting fullborgs and military-level stuff but still no acpa
>james saying he doesnt want to 'over complicate balance'
knew things will not last after autofire shotty and ghostsuit

>>97290472
>Have you ever borged out or encountered borgs in your games?
Does being the GM for a Ghost in the Shell-inspired one shot count? I gave all of the players cyberbodies.
>>97292231
>new gun type: machine gun with autofire range bands
Does that mean LMGs and HMGs will have their own classification instead of being considered "Assault Rifles" that can only do Autofire?

>>97292358
not sure, how he worded it was weird
>we have a new machine gun specific autofire table. SMG, Assault Rifles, Machine Guns. And there's a shorter range one, called a Machine Pistol.
then he pulls the "im not saying anything further" shtick.

im a redbab but do solos also use melee weapons? why all the focus on guns when shaitain was using melee in a previous Interface?

>>97292404
>we have a new machine gun specific autofire table. SMG, Assault Rifles, Machine Guns. And there's a shorter range one, called a Machine Pistol.
Just an expanded table, then. Could be a good thing. Machine pistols having their own classification is wonderful news to me, since I consider them to be the most cyberpunk weapons (outside of implants, of course) and their exclusion from RED was deeply felt by me.
>>97292423
>why all the focus on guns when shaitain was using melee in a previous Interface?
The default setting of the game is Night City, and Night City is in what used to be the United States.

>>97292423
More visually interesting for people to be rocking all sorts of different guns rather than everybody having katanas. Melee solos are cool though, bit they need a little more investment than a gun solo since your opponents usually won't face you down in honorable melee. I haven't got the chance yet but I've wanted to try out a character like that

>>97292456
>>97292456
I always just assumed the 2d6 SMGs were machine pistols? They're concealable, while 3d6 SMGs would be something like H&K UMP chambered in .45 ACP.

>>97292514
Yeah, that was the assumption I made as well, but it never felt right to me (for example, a Beretta 93R would be classed as an "SMG"), so it's nice to have them as a separate classification now.

>>97292423
>do solos also use melee weapons
Any competent Solo is always ready to use anything and everything to destroy his enemies.
That said, only using melee is stupid and will get you annihilated by anybody smart enough to stay out of range.

>>97292539
NTA, I'm trained with shoulder weapons, but I don't carry one on my person. Running a corop lady, so I figure most of my stuff will be close and dirty. In the event I know I'm heading to a rough part of Night City, I'd source a weapon as I need it.

Most of the time, I don't think a business lady is going to be walking around with a full-length shotgun or rifle swinging off her shoulders. In the future, if I borg out further, I might do some pop-up weapons if they benefit from my shoulder arms skill.

>>97292874
Pop-up Shotgun is the only concealable shoulder-arm, IIRC.
>>97292531
Eh? That doesn't super bother me, honestly "Machine pistol" is a very nebulous term, it's more of a colloquial term, than a technical one. Both a Tec-9, and a MP5 are Machienpistole.

>>97293137
I get what you're saying but it is/would be nice to have a distinction between something like a MAC-10 or Uzi and the bigger boys like an MP5 or P90, or HK51

>>97292874
I think you've missed the Handgun category, in between shoulder arms and melee.

>>97293137
>Eh? That doesn't super bother me, honestly "Machine pistol" is a very nebulous term, it's more of a colloquial term, than a technical one. Both a Tec-9, and a MP5 are Machienpistole.
As >>97293313 said, the distinction would be nice. I feel as though it would contribute to restoring the "gear porn" aspect of Cyberpunk that RED lacks.

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>>97294421
I ran handguns on my previous character. I wanted to try something else. Better to minmax than to split points between skills, I figured.
>You put 4 points into the dance skill though?
Dancing is important.

Edgerunners/2077 when?

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What is a leaping attack? Is it like a jump kick out of pacific rim?

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>>97295647
The ERMK is basically that. As I understand, they use Red's framework for combat and such, with a few added mechanics for humanity gain and the new quickhacks. My ref is using some of the humanity stuff, but we're leaving the quickhacks out since it's time of the red.

I bought the physical box set, and it's basically been lying dormant for months. I don't know of anyone in my area who'd be down for a game
>what about the ref you mentioned?
That's for a different game over the net.

>>97295062
>I ran handguns on my previous character.
You don't have to specialize in them to stick one in your pocket as a precaution. Most people in Night City would not consider themselves dressed without a pistol and pocket knife.

>>97293313
>>97295048
The distinction being yet another range band is cumbersome in use.

>>97297108
Don't play red, didn't realize that's how the rules worked. Maybe have the small smgs share range with pistols?

I have to delay my Shadowrun 2e game starting because of work. Shit sucks, guys.

Are there any good form fillable character sheets for 2020? For the life of me I can't find a good one.

>>97296568
She's good at melee. Anyway, all the points are in shoulder arms for now, and my next IP expenditure is probably going to be for my exec level, so I can get TTI coverage.

>>97297604
SMGS are more accurate Pistols that only have 1 ROF, and can use automatic fire in RED; they have their own range band, that's slightly more accurate than regular pistols. And are the same skill unlike 2020. SMGs are basically just marksmen pistols, or pocket automatics in RED; that's their entire niche.

I hitched myself to sovoil because I liked their logo and name more than petrochem, but after reading the corpbook, I think I may have made a mistake. Petrochem is cool as fuck

>>97292281
>worrying about balance
>in a game that can be broken right out of character creation since day 1

Oh boy can't wait to see what retarded drawbacks every remotely strong item is given meanwhile Martial Arts chads still dominate with all the busted shit added in Interface 4. At this point I'm not sure if it's dev favouritism or James just doesn't understand that "balance" means.

>>97292404
I don't understand why Autofire needs alternate range tables in the first place. All it does is makes adding a larger variety of Autofire weapons a pain since you have to make up new range tables to accommodate them on top.

>>97297876
I still don't understand why they gave SMGs ROF1. Such an odd choice that kills their utility.

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>>97299484
Laughs in 100eb

>>97299484
>I still don't understand why they gave SMGs ROF1. Such an odd choice that kills their utility.
If you feel it's that bad, you can just have a house rule that gives them the same RoF as pistols.

>>97300318
That thing would make more sense if it was a disposable Launcher like a LAW, considering it comes with the Rocket for free.

>>97299484
>At this point I'm not sure if it's dev favouritism or James just doesn't understand that "balance" means.
this is from the same guy who put a 5 million flying ship to purchase and you cant get it by nomad ranks.
>get it by quest rewards
that is literally his answer to all high priced items and even the arasaka prototype rifle which is 15k when the normal payout to jobs is like 1000 because of 'muh setting, item availability, and street level'. meanwhile i can get FaceFucker cyberware in a random store that allows me to oneshot goons after 3 gigs in 2020.

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>>97299484
>gun you have to reload for two actions for some reason when the next gun in the list is a perfect copy without the extra reload thing
Like an anon said, RED is lacking the gear porn aspect because a lot of weapons are mostly samey

Which type of player (or GM when it comes to your games) are you?
>tacticool spec ops black rifles and mantis blades only
>style over substance with pink mohawk and gold plated revolvers
>over the top future tech like lightsabers, anime-style giant hammers

>>97303653
I would say that I'm somewhere between all three. Cyberpunk is never one thing, and I try to reflect that in the characters which I create. For example, my last four characters were: a gun-crazy Nomad from Southern Nevada who was basically Vasquez from Aliens, a bishi Rockerboy who was like the unholy lovechild of Jim Morrison and The Joker, a Haitian Netrunner-turned-Fixer who styled himself after Baron Samedi, and an autistic katana-wielding Solo who craved Total Yakuza Death.

this may sound dumb, but does 2020 have anything on vertical jumping? It has leaping as a MA derived stat but don't remember seeing anything about jumping into the air

>>97305696
I read the core rule book 1.5 times and vertical jumps aren't mentioned.

>>97292231
Wait this could be preem. I thought Solo of Fortune was just going to be the big dlc for Interface 5 (hopefully 15 pages of solid content) but if it's an actual book and serious about raising the firepower level I'll be very pleased. Seriously it's about giving people what they want and we want to blow stuff up with style.

Here is a free idea James: Aersoyzed Naloxone as a grenade (kinda like Aersoyzed street drugs in Hornet's Pharmacy) to use against enemy solos high on black lace (which has to be an opiate right?).

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>>97302048
>that is literally his answer to all high priced items
This, or “just tech upgrade it bro!” Seriously, I hate invention as a mechanic if only because it gives the developers a get out of jail free card for every poorly designed item. Homebrew isn’t a revolutionary concept, it’s been around since the inception of the hobby. And this is coming from someone who likes techs and home brewing in general. I don’t want my players to spend downtime fixing the developer’s fuck ups, I’d just rather make certain unusable items better in my game and let my techie invent wholly new things. It’s even more frustrating when everyone on the discord smugly acts like the developers are playing some sort of 5d chess when they make items shit “on purpose.”

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>>97303653
>anime-style giant hammers
Funny you bring that up, recently after playing some ZZZ I've been wondering: why always worry about silencers, super compact stealth weapons and being serious operators when my character lives in a setting where the tech is over the top and their life is cheap? I should try something like giant hammers that explode on impact, combat knives in platform shoes or sword scabbards build into my knees. Who knows, I might have fun before the character dies or people tell me to stop.

>>97290472
those proportions are fucked. nobody could ever love a literal Monster like that

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>>97310423
We used to have a few borg gf greens but I can't remember how they went.

The chromebooks have a section on cyber-animals that has lions and tigers and bears, otters, and sharks, but no horses. What's the deal?

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>>97310423
More for me then

Besides the core fanmade red module, any other suggestions for where to get started with Foundry VTT? It's kinda overwhelming but I'm sure I felt the same way about roll20 way back when too.

>>97310423
Giantessfags would beg to differ. Or especially Nephilimfreaks.

Plus maybe that's just her combat fbc and when her shift ends she plugs into a cute body?

>>97310423
>nobody could ever love a literal Monster like that
Speak for yourself, choom.

>>97311623
I remember when I saw the eelskin option for borgs it reminded me of how in appleseed cyborgs are warm to the touch, and that gave me the idea of borg gf who is all steel and angular but doesn't feel like cold metal

I was looking at the exotics section of 2020 and the digitagrade legs caught my eye, they're weird but seemed cool and I was considering giving my techie some until I saw the costs. 4000eb for a pair of legs makes sense but 6d6 hc, it's not at all worth the cost when you have to get a tail too to get one (1) extra point of ma or suffer a -2 penalty.

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>>97310423
They could always swap out their body like Smasher. Even then, it's about what's on the inside, right?

>>97312698
>2
dare i ask about 1

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>>97312987
This is the only other part I have.

>>97308457
Techs are both the broken and stupidest role for reasons you said. Even the bosses have weirdly broken Tech Upgrade items yet won't give the item as is because "whoops you cant loot that item off the enemy! Teehee damaged upon repair upon defeat!". Meanwhile Ripper has grey goo nanomachines and nobody makes a peep on it, which once again, you can't loot off him because guess what: damaged upon repair!
>gives the developers a get out of jail free card for every poorly designed item.
I love Techs but holy shit, I want fun items without retarded drawbacks. I dont give a shit about balance. If James have to hide shit behind a role and then destroy it so nobody can eat that cake, then its a rampant problem

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>>97314320
As a Tech, so help me god do not make me destroy you. My role, clearly unappreciated as it is, is to give your ungrateful ass access to literally every item printed at half-off, and that's where I fucking start. After I'm finished upgrading you armor and weapons (I have added a genuinely retarded number of slots to the crew's arsenal and I am at no time prepared to stop doing so), then I get to 'mother-may-I' the GM to making things out of thin air and guidance is that he broadly has to allow it if it's reasonable enough. I have made leg mounted pop-up weapons, automatic turrets the size of beercans and wired a full sized combat drone directly to my brain to go in first so you don't get shot in the face.

But -- oh no-- I'm Jame's little piss janitor for his sloppy game huh? Just because you can't steal a special snowflake boss's secret sauce?

Fuck you. You don't want any toys then don't ask for any toys, but do not fucking tell me not to be santa's busiest elf because, choom, this year I gave the gift of 'not fucking dying to a Militech hit squad' and next year if you keep this up you're getting a Mozambique drill and coal.

I don't know if I'm broken, but the only thing stupid here is you.

>>97308457
I think Red's problem is strict adherence to being modular and reluctance to come up with new mechanics.

If you go through Black Chrome, which was supposed to be the major gear update after the core book, it's alot of "existing item but cheaper" and "two existing items smashed together." Only a couple of the grenades and Cyberware really added anything new.

>>97314385
>But -- oh no-- I'm Jame's little piss janitor for his sloppy game huh?
Yes. You are the most grotesquely obvious bandaid fix ever applied, and your immediate defensive seething means you know it.

>>97314405
Oh yeah, the role in the book that's whole job is making new stuff and getting you new stuff is the reason you don't have nice stuff.

Maybe you should stick with Solo and leave the other roles for your smarter friends.

>>97314438
NTA but James has said on a few occasions that they make some items underpowered on purpose so the techies can feel good when they fix it. Take the Hypurr hammer from the Cutiemas DLC. It’s 5d6 melee damage that doesn’t halve armour for 1000eb, and it also has a BODY 9 or 10 requirement. This is pretty much on par with the 500eb very heavy melee and weaker than the 100eb heavy melee, and neither of those have BODY reqs. Now, I can’t read the minds of James and co, but I can assume that if this is a purposefully underpowered item, then the obvious tech “fix” is to invent a tech upgrade that halves the melee damage. But that’ll cost at least 4 weeks of downtime (2 weeks inventing, 2 weeks applying) and at least 1000eb extra eb, if your refreee is super generous. At that point you have spent 2000eb to get 5d6 melee, which isn’t even that good considering there are other options that aren’t shit out of the box and you don’t have to spend 4 weeks fixing. The items created by R. Tal should serve as a baseline for GMs to balance for when a Tech invents an item. They should not be easy layup shots for new players, because that’s highly parasitic.

>>97302090
>gun you have to reload for two actions for some reason when the next gun in the list is a perfect copy without the extra reload thing
I mean... did it ever happened? I dont recall such a gun in RED.
>>97302048
For a brief time, when they added cardboard cars (and later the garage HQ upgrade) into the game I legit thought the're gonna step back on car prices being utterly luxurious. Well, shit. Anyway, here's my two cents:
>Bike or similar vehicle is 1K
>Car or similar vehicle is 5K
>Super-X vehicle is 30K
Now, here's the thing, upgrades are still priced like in the core, so 1K for rank 1 and 5K beyond.
I mean... Did you guys ever see how ludicrously hefty the price of plating your car is?
>>97308457
Discord do be circlejerking. My take is to simply gate every broken item behind 5K. I mean, you guys checked the core, right? And you've seen the ROF 2 grenade launcher. When all these mentally ill people point out my items being inbalanced I simply calculate how many homeless people you could arm with >>97300318 and sent wave after wave to obliterate any foe for far better price.

>>97314509
Aren't you supposed to pick a bad fucking weapon for your example?

The Hypurrhammer has no BODY requirement; it in fact will only hurt your feelings if you have a BODY of 8 or lower. Now the bonus effects only go off if your BODY is 9 or higher, and in exchange for losing armor halving, you get a 5d6 die (raising critical chance) and the ability to pick critical hits, an effect that does not exist on any other melee weapon. Sure you lose halving armor, in exchange for hitting like a fucking sniper rifle in melee. Try and make some headshots with this badboy and see how they feel about 2% odds of brain damage and, depending on whether or not they decided to wear their helmet today, 13 to 35 average damage.

The only comparable weapon to that is the Kleaver, that takes 20 rounds and 150 eddies to start up and requires fucking 11 BODY; then when it's started, if you drop it for any reason period, it is destroyed. I hope your Brawling skill isn't shit, because you're gonna be out 1000eb if someone decides to give it a hug and just, toss it, like one might a massive weapon they can't wield.

>>97298907
Set yourself up to be "extracted".

>>97314608
>The hypurr hammer has no BODY requirement
Sure, but using it without the bonus damage is gimping yourself. And you’re seriously underselling how huge not halving armour is. Against Kevlar, the 5d6 hypurr hammer is only doing .5 more damage than a regular very heavy melee. It deals 2 less damage than the very heavy melee against light armour jack, and it’s all downhill from there. This is for a weapon that costs double the very heavy melee btw. Sure it can deal plenty of damage against unarmoured heads, but that requires either stealth or dumb luck, as anyone with above like an 8 in evasion can easily dodge an aimed shot. All this for a weapon that requires BODY 9 just to not be complete dogshit (and it only becomes regular dogshit with BODY 9).

Jury rig in 2020 kind of sucks iirc. Do techs get any other abilities to make up for things they do breaking after d6 rounds?

RED putting "Tech guy can make new stuff and here's the list of standard upgrades" right there in the corebook is good because it sets the whole group to expect homebrewed items, by default instead of begging the GM.

In Pathfinder the "Inventor" class must take a high level feat to "Invent anything*", otherwise you just have one fancy gadget. So the default expectations is that you can't actually invent anything until you jump hoops and ask "GM, may I?".
*as long as it's an item in an officially published book and you took separate feats to craft magic, alchemy, or snares.

>>97316539
most of my 'homebrewed' tech items are ports of 2020. this is half out of spite because a player took a tech role and then proceeded to do nothing with it.

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>>97314547
>I mean... did it ever happened? I dont recall such a gun in RED.
anon might be talking about toggle temple and black chrome. bunch of guns in there are copies of already existing guns with some drawback added. Sniper rifles suffer from this.

>And you've seen the ROF 2 grenade launcher.
while not in the same vein in yours, an autohit rocket launcher exists too

>>97316539
Invention is still a "gm may I" ability. Honestly I think it should be rolled into Upgrade Expertise, because that way if the GM turns down your homebrew you still have the core upgrades to fall back on.

>>97314608
> you get a 5d6 die (raising critical chance) and the ability to pick critical hits

Make that 6d6, and that'd be great, 5d6 doesn't crit enough for that to be a great trade off. You'd be better off getting Panzerfaust skill-chip for 1k, Because then you'd get 5d6 and armor halving.

>>97319924
>Invention is still a "gm may I" ability
But putting it in the corebook changes the discussion.
Sure the Ref can forbid you from inventing just as he can forbid a Solo from using points, the Exec from using corpo benefits, or the Media from making the setting change by publishing articles.
But now the conversation is "ok, how do we make this idea fun/balanced?", not "did you complete your feat tree?"

>>97310423
yeah nobody ever, definitely not me

>>97324678
>now the conversation is "ok, how do we make this idea fun/balanced?", not "did you complete your feat tree?"
Are your only points of reference for item creation rules Pathfinder and CP Red? Most systems with an item creation mechanic in a supplement are "here's how to figure the cost and the skill check necessary to design/manufacture one that works".

>>97310390
I've personally copied Dark-Souls style "Colossal" weapons for Borgs/ Anyone with Body above 8. Giant Hammers, bows, swords, whatever. What's the point of all that chrome if all it does is increase your HP?

>>97324842
CP2020/RED and PF2E are the crunchiest systems I've played for more than a session.
>in a supplement
Mhm.
Again, this isn't about lack of rules for crafting, it's about presentation and framing.

>>97324678
>Sure the Ref can forbid you from inventing just as he can forbid a Solo from using points, the Exec from using corpo benefits, or the Media from making the setting change by publishing articles.

If the GM ignores a player's Role's Abilities they're being adversarial plain and simple. Especially with Solo and Exec whose Role Abilities are pretty straight forward and not open to interpretation. A GM could knock back a player's invention for a myriad of reasonable concerns like it's too OP or it doesn't fit the tone of the campaign.

Invention and Upgrade both do similar things so I don't understand why they're split. Invention is do whatever you want but you're up against the whims of the GM, upgrade is mostly underwhelming but gives you hard mechanical bonuses the GM can't argue with. Really you've got two versions of the same feature you have to spend your limited points on, it's a potential noob trap depending on how permissive a GM is.

>But now the conversation is "ok, how do we make this idea fun/balanced?", not "did you complete your feat tree?"

See this the problem with Red. To run the game RAW, the way the writers intended, it really relies on you having a really good, hands on GM who perfectly understands the game and is prepared to run its myriad of subsystems. Like not only do you need to have someone who understands the basic core pillars. Dice mechanics, Combat, Downtime, Character Building etc, you also need someone who's gonna learn Netrunning and be willing to set up Net Architectures, who's gonna be able to interpret how to work in Media's stories and a Rockerboy's Charismatic Impact checks based on the vague guidelines provided. You're gonna have to roll tables run Night Markets and give your players a fucking report card at the end of session. It's too much.

>>97327494
>You're gonna have to roll tables run Night Markets and give your players a fucking report card at the end of the session. It's too much.
At some point, you have to choose what to streamline and what not to streamline. I don't think most players will know or even care if you use some pre-made templates for the sake of convenience. If you want to do more complicated shit for specific gigs, you can still craft that shit and homebrew what you need to. If a Ref needs 10 or 15 minutes to cook something, he can tell the players to RP a hangout session for a little "social break" and give them 1d6 humanity gain at the end of it or something like that.

Only spergy players will cry about RAW. The retort being.
>If you hate the way I'm running this game, run your own.

>>97327202
>CP2020/RED and PF2E are the crunchiest systems I've played for more than a session.
Then you don't have enough experience to gauge how crafting rules compare to one another.

>>97327618
I don't know if you're not addressing my actual point on purpose or not, but I see further discussion is futile.

>>97327563
Or you know the writers should've had the foresight to know what aspects of the game to focus on and what was bloat that needed trimming. Red suffers from scope creep and an unfocused design.

>>97327202
>>in a supplement
>Mhm.
Personally I don't believe that new item creation rules (as opposed to making ones that already exist, because those at least should be vetted by the designer) should ever be in core. Core rules are ones that the majority of players should be expected to understand and employ in their first few games without having to worry about the game disintegrating if they are misused.
Turning newbies loose on the "build your own shit" rules straight out of the gate is a recipe for disaster, unless you happen to be some sort of prodigy that has attained full and complete comprehension of the rules and their >implications without ever seeing them in play,

You think if Bartmoss is still alive in 2045/2077? I know he was still hooked up to the net while his physical body got killed, which activated the deadman-switch on the RABIDs.
At best he'd be a digital ghost exploring the old net, right?

>>97328564
RED has an extremely comprehensive warning in the Maker section on how inventions work, what they cost and who gets to decide anything and everything about them. As far as item creation rules go, they may be the most complete in player facing I've ever seen in a book.

They're also remarkably to the point, there's no excuse to not have read the entire thing, maybe twice before you even finish making a character.

>>97329031
Nobody knows in 2020-2040s. The books make it known that there is so much chaos surrounding Bartmoss and his deadman-switch. So one person thinks some orbital cannon came down, another thought his house exploded, and so on. But everyone knows that yes, he was still connected to the net by that time. Spooked netrunners after that did see a ghost later though.
>2077
you can find his body in some fridge, but nothing about a ghost so that is still up in the air.
They leave things like this up in the air so you can go wild on making it real or fake.

>>97330628
>spoiler
I know about that, but it feels off. You can also find an engram that is connected to the fridge and it says that the 50 year rent contract has ended, and it ended in 2075, meaning that contract had to be set up in 2025. And if we go by idea that Rache died in march 2022 when the Datakrash began, meaning he shouldn't be able to make that contract since he would've been dead for around 3 years.
Also by around this time it is also known that Bartmoss' body was dead anyway since his heart stopped, meaning his physical body died, but he just stayed plugged into the Net and he just wandered that. So it'd be weird for Bartmoss to make a 50 year old rental contract for his dead body that he can't even return to anyway, unless it's a decoy. There is that one tweet from R Talsorian where they say "body sculpting tech exists in cyberpunk, just because a corpse looks like X, it doesn't mean the corpse is X", very obviously hinting at "Bartmoss" we find in the badlands.

I think Bartmoss probably uploaded his mind into the net, he was a very good coder so he could've probably make his own version of "soulkiller" from scratch or something works like it but differently.
But it is known/speculated that he had access to an earlier version of soulkiller or some other form of it. Because that is how he created the RABIDs, meaning he could've possibly soulkilled himself as a contingency plan and jumped into the net when the RABIDs were unleashed using them as decoys even if the deadman switch goes off and fries the old net.

>>97329031
I personally don't think so. If it was just whats left of his ICON or his engram it would behave differently than Rache, Alt's engram states this in 2077. I don't think the deadmans switch would be false, Bartmoss wanted people to know he was hot shit and better than them so disconnecting everything goes against that unless it was his final act.

>>97329267
You have failed to understand the statement. You can warn people that things might break as much as you please, but this will not magically grant them insight into what's a good idea, what's useless, and what seems harmless but will result in the system snapping in half. That can only be granted by first-hand experience with the system.
Same as any other homebrew, really. Don't mess with shit unless you're well familiar with it in its non-messed-with state.

>>97332553
If the sign says Yield and you plow into the side of traffic, it's not the sign that is wrong.

The section says, and I quote:

More than any ability in the game, this ability can
result in game imbalance. Your GM might need to
retroactively change the way your invention operates
rules-wise (or, in extreme circumstances, even replace
it with another invention of an equal price category
that you collaborate on together) several times before
you find a version that works well at your table and
doesn't negatively impact game balance.

>>97333454
>If the sign says Yield and you plow into the side of traffic, it's not the sign that is wrong.
What a dogshit analogy. Roads are extremely simple, and you're not allowed on them until you've had a proficiency test drilled into your skull, and the results are obvious and immediate. Item creation by people who don't know what they're doing has a high chance of creating something broken in a way that is not immediately obvious and may not become apparent until some time in the future.
>The section says, and I quote:
>"Hey, you're probably going to fuck things up with this and have to change it a whole lot until you actually get it right. Good luck lmao."
This is exactly why this sort of thing is best left to supplemental material that will only get used by people who have become bored with what's available in the core book.

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>>97334197
As my party's Tech AND their Netrunner, I would like people to stop using their brain damage to justify simplifying an already very smoothed out system.

>>97334197
>This is exactly why this sort of thing is best left to supplemental material that will only get used by people who have become bored with what's available in the core book.
Supplemental material is good for the sake of streamlining, but if I were a techie and could craft my own cyberware and gear, I'd want more creativity.
>cyberware that combines one or more pieces of cyberware so you can utilize more stuff with fewer slots. (maybe with some diminished usage or capacity for balance)
>Detachable limbs that you can control remotely for little spider hands or feet that can slip through air vents or sneak through other places and jack into consoles to access the matrix remotely.
>Integrating cyberware into weapons or combining weapons with tools to create grapple hook rifles, shotguns with stun dart launcher underbarrel attachment, and other weird and goofy shit like that.
I'd like to craft tools to let me navigate and fuck with the environment more.

>>97334446
>simplifying
Seems like the only thing simple here is you. Moving things from core to supplement says nothing about the complexity of the subsystem. In fact, it lets you give it a much more complete treatment because it's not fighting for page space with everything else in core.

>>97339750
If you move it to splats, people will dismiss and remove it from the game out of hand. It is an intentional decision to have the systems in core to handle some of the economic conceits.

Everything that you have said regarding it so far has affirmed my concerns that players will bitch and moan about "optional" mechanics at the expense of players who want to actually use these systems.

>>97327035
I went a bit different way, at my table melee weapons don’t halve SP but you add your BODY to the damage. Makes heavier frames more powerful instead of like +5HP n shit.
>is it crunchy?
Well, it removes halving but adds addition. Go figure.

>>97340658
Hmm, I've thought of implementing that myself, but never pulled the trigger. I do like adding guaranteed damage to weapons, like in 2020.

Which makes them more unique. I once gave out a 2d6+4 SMG which a player threw away because his 3d6 SMG "did more damage."

Unironically the Bad Guys work great as a Shadowrun crew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH36MaFjcBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6iZKa7X9vc
>Decker=Tarantula
>Muscle=Piranha
>Shadow=Snake
>Face=Shark
>Rigger=Wolf

>>97339777
>Everything that you have said regarding it so far has affirmed my concerns that players will bitch and moan about "optional" mechanics at the expense of players who want to actually use these systems.

NTA, but maybe the answer is to cut down on these optional systems if they're causing friction? Red has a problem where it doesn't know if it wants to be a hard, crunch focused game or a loose narrative game and those two design principles often butt heads.

I don't think putting invention in a separate splat is necessary, but it is odd that the Tech has an ability that basically gives the Player carte blanche to break the game when Red is typically very anal about combat balance and all the Tech's other abilities are pretty balanced.

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>>97341241
I am not confident you are doing this on purpose so I'm trying not to chew out your entrails, but the answer to the problem of 'people keep wanting to cut systems' being 'you should cut systems' is textbook begging the question and I'm about a minute away from actually fucking tweaking over it.

Without the ability to make new stuff, Tech is just a slow Fixer with a bunch of extra skill points and the ability to fix their armor for a fight and no social skills.

>>97341731
>Without the ability to make new stuff, Tech is just a slow Fixer with a bunch of extra skill points and the ability to fix their armor for a fight and no social skills.
This has a really simple solution: Don't put Tech in core. Only introduce it alongside its complex subsystem.

>>97310423
This Gonk don't crack borgs.

>>97344950
The genre is about technology, not having the tech guy is a huge miss.
>>97340658
What about Brawling and Martial Arts?

>>97341731
Why are you so salty about people critiquing Red? I don't even agree with that anon about moving invention out of core, but jesus get a grip.

>Without the ability to make new stuff, Tech is just a slow Fixer with a bunch of extra skill points and the ability to fix their armor for a fight and no social skills.

You're really underselling how good raising all your Tech skills is. Anytime the party faces a problem that requires technical knowledge, the Tech can ace it easy. Fixing armor in the field situational, but a god send in a drawn out, combat heavy gig. Makes Tech/Medtech really good because you can heal Armor and HP.

Fabrication is meh, but has its uses like putting a couple points in to mass produce cocaine or rockets. Invention is ok but gets cucked by the time/money it takes to upgrade more expensive items. Still being able to upgrade everyone's LAJ is worth putting a few points into. Even without Invention, Tech is still one of the better Roles.

I think others ITT were right that Invention feels like a crutch for the writers when they design a bad item. Invention lets you circumnavigate the game's autistic balance rules and fix shit gear whilst also not having to deal with the scarcity horsehit by adding strong items with a low price.

>>97347566
You're awful charitable with your definition of criticism; "Remove it from the game because the referee might have to do his job" and "Remove it from the game because it's holding up the fucking wall." are barely coherent thoughts, much less criticism.

There's plenty of wrong with RED. Should you bounce two neurons together by accident and form a synapse you might realize that taking shit out that is mitigating or solving some of these problems is not only counterproductive, but actively brain damaged.

>>97347614
Or you could get some reading comprehension. I DON'T think Invention should be removed from the core. I never argued for that. I think you're confusing me for the guy that's adamant Invention gets removed from the core.

What I AM saying is the Tech has uses outside Invention and Invention in general is a mechanic used to circumvent Red's poorly thought out Item/Economy balance.

None of these positions mean I think Invention should be removed from the core.

>>97347300
>The genre is about technology, not having the tech guy is a huge miss.
And yet somehow, every other cyberpunk RPG on the market manages to get away with it. Usually by making tech monkey a secondary trait of the hackerman.

>>97341731
If your class is crippled by removing a downtime feature, which is only going to be used when you are not playing the game, then your class sucks and needs a rework to give it more shit to do while actually playing the game.

>>97347689
I know it's hard to read more than one post at a time for some people, but between inventing a position I do not have and coming out in support of "criticism" that involves throwing a functional and important rule system into the dumpster; they can fuck off and you can fuck off with them.

>>97348031
Along with you.

>>97348038
And you.

Because you're all incredibly fucking wrong and for once in your adult life it's about time somebody said it to your face.

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I keep forgetting to list the manufacturers of the weapons when I give them to my player. I want some fanboy characters, damn it.
Which might be hard to get since they have a "fuck corporations" mentality.

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>>97349774
*players
Minor spelling mistake, its over for me.

Militech is for tactical prowess and firepower, Arasaka for maybe range, and what about the corps?

I had a player in 2020 spend his combat turn full autoing, then declared he wanted to reload. I let him but it made me wonder because there's supposed to be the -3 penalty but obviously there's no dice roll. What are you supposed to do, make them reload on the next turn? Same thing with movement, I've had some people run up, do an action at -3, then run away in the same turn with their spare MA. It's not like I want to stop them I just want to know how all these are supposed to interact.

>>97349774
>>97349793
Actually I think Arasaka is adaptability. The two Arasaka weapons in Black Chrome are the weeping reaver which can have 3 bonus effects (and can mix and match them and more are possible) and the prototype rifle which is ridiculously overpriced but would give you an extremely weak railgun if you needed it. And the bullpup rifle in Gunsmas can use any type of ammo even though it's exotic.

Sovoil/Techtronika could be defined by dependability in brutal conditions. Techtronika is actually a subsidy of San Francisco Techtronica which was a microwaver developer but they all died in the 4CW.

Malourian Arms and Tsunami Arms weapons would be the kind to be way over engineered and have limited release runs.

Your Militech seems pretty spot-on. I could see them competing with Gunmart for American patriotism and tactical designs. Except Militech is actually good while Gunmart is flimsy.

>>97349774
Radline is a pretty cool Cyberware manufacturer with Arc-Thrower Cyberarm. Lightning always attracts the fanboys, have Radline make a badass sword or something.

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>>97352074
▶ Arc Sword
1000eb (Very Expensive)
An epic sword of proportions seen only in most anime brain dances, the Arc Sword is integrated with
spectacular coil channelling stored energy into devastating electrified strikes. No subtlety, no pardon.
>Two-Handed Exotic Very Heavy Melee Weapon that requires BODY 11 or higher to wield. When charged with a 50eb (Costly) battery pack it deals 5d6 damage instead of 4d6. Single battery pack last for 10 swings regardless whether they hit or miss. Replacing the battery pack is an Action. ,

I guess it could be Radline manufactured

>>97352247
Really cool, maybe a 5k version could include a emp effect on hit? energy weapons in the 2020s would do that sometimes

>>97352390
Thanks, I tend to make weapons as vague as possible, although I was tempted a few times to brand my weapons, but always didnt.
ie I've never made "Militech Zeus" but a "Marksman Rifle" instead.
I like my stuff to be as modular as possible though, and non specified fluff is a part of that.
I'll admit it sometimes was hard, or rather kind of tiresome to deconstruct every shit I post (and there's a lot of them) just to provide generic description. But I've found solace in making the fluff describe what a weapon does mechanically, but from in-world perspective.
>emp effect on hit?
Sure, 5K seems like a good spot to do so. I'd either copypaste microwaver text (with a name change etc.) or just straight up direct reader to the microwaver "on a succesfull hit weapon forces a EMP effect, much like a microwaver would do (see Corebook pg. XXX)"
Hope it helps

>>97348419
>I do not have and coming out in support of "criticism" that involves throwing a functional and important rule system into the dumpster; they can fuck off and you can fuck off with them.

I my experience Invention is the least used Tech ability. Field Expertise is by far the most useful and Upgrade/Fabricate are more situational, but still get alot of use because of how strong they are early game. I don't think players really want to go through the "GM may I" process described in core, so don't want to commit Tech levels to the specialty.

I think a "fix" to this issue is just to streamline things and grant the Tech all it's specialties each level instead of forcing you to pick two.

>>97348419
>important rule system
So important that it outright doesn't exist in any other edition of the game?

>>97353981
That is a bit reasonable, both it and Medtech end up in a weird specialization trap.

>>97353981
Kids these days with their Invention and their Upgrading and their i don't know what. Back in my day we got 1d6 turns of bodge-job repairs or alterations, and we damn well liked it. Mostly because it wasn't CP2013's Scrounge, which is largely used for grubbing up more parts to flog for cash.

>>97348031
>There are bad games that don't deliver on the genre premises.
Woah... Dude, no way...

>>97354053
Yeah Medtech is even worse with Surgery being useless and Cyro/Pharmaceuticals capping out in usefulness pretty early.

They should be streamlined similar to Techs getting all their specializations for free and Surgery and Medical Tech becoming normal skills they get a Bonus for along with the other medical skills like Paramedic, First Aid and Cybertech

>>97353910
It seems like the general EMP effect is set at Cyberware DV15 and disables 2 pieces of the ref's choosing. Now I used to scoff at this low DV but only recently did I realize nobody puts points into Cyberware outside of the tech/medtech and maybe put 4-5 points in TECH (gotta max out REF, DEX, and COOL for combat optimization baybey) so suddenly EMP can be insanely dangerous and only nat 10's can save you.

The Rostic Kleaver has the on fire effect, ignores armor effect, and bonus 1d6 damage effect so I wonder if there is one more bonus ability that could be squeezed in, especially since this is a 5,000eb tier weapon?

Also you could make your own brand, become the next Eren Malour.

Why do some of you want Cyberpunk to play like an MMO? We already have Elflines.

>>97354587
Surgery is great for ripping tech, especially high value tech-upgraded boss gear (you know if the game devs didn't make everything cool break, I'm still butthurt about the nanohive auto-breaking). Sure 4 hours to rip/install sucks but that's better than taking weeks to repair salvaged cyberware. While this falls more under the referee's purview but it's entirely reasonable that dangerous cyberware installs could be banned or at least tracked by the NCPD so having a private ripperdoc helps. Finally surgery can make the most money. Bodysculpting makes a profit of $350 for 4 hours of work (minus $50 fixer fee to find a client) and if the medtech is confident they can try exotic Bodysculpting for $400 profit. Nobody else can earn 100eb/hr which is how much a professional job earns per hour in the core rulebook I can't believe the internal consistency!. Surgery can also fix the worst crits especially head crits, but due to how combat works I swear you'd probably only see those once per entire game unless the referee is always using hardened encounters that start with ambushes where the attackers go for headshots with poor quality shotguns (or even worse sniper rifles).

In my campaign the Invention was used so often the non-Techie PCs had to line up in a queue to order stuff from the Techie PC. So that anon's assertion was the complete opposite of my experience.

>>97355771
Did you read the 'no base like home' DLC? The tech rooms can let them work on 3 projects simultaneously. This let my crew's tech both help the team out while still pursuing personal projects.

>>97356175
Yes, we've used that DLC a lot, but it was released near the end of our campaign, so by that time there was no longer need for that. Especially after one of Exec's minions got promoted to a real Techie.

>>97354681
I wish Cyberpunk was less like an MMO and more like a CRPG. Why the fuck is Elflines even a thing?

>>97355771
Well good for you, but the way I see it is Invention has 3 barriers to it being used effectively

>you need a GM who's permissive but also understands the vanilla game balance
>you need a player willing to invest in the Invention spec and also understands game balance
>you need a game in which you have the eddies/downtime to use it effectively

It's like having an effective Media or Netrunner. Sure there are tables that are able to use the roles effectively, but I think they're few and far between.

>>97354390
>genre premises
I don't think I've ever read a cyberpunk book where the inventor guy is anything more than a side character the main characters talk to when they need something built, or a guy who has built something previously but does not do so over the course of the book.

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>>97355771
I can confirm that all 3 benches are ALWAYS full in my game and I am constantly broke.

The party fixer is subsidizing the most psychotic homebrew factory in our game when I'm not patching up completely avoidable armor damage.

>>97357999
That's only because in a fucking book the protagonist is either going to be a hackerman or a dude with a gun (usually both) if the premise isn't something explicitly different.

We do not compare fucking novels to RPGs because they are strictly and intrinsically different; Mr. Hiro Protagonist.

>>97358701
>Not getting subdermal
That's on you choom.
>>97354652
Surprise, surprise resist torture/drugs is also frequently slept on. Hitting your players with a nasty sleep bomb can easily turn the tide of any battle, or use 10 arrows alternatively.

You dissected the Kleaver correctly, I like to take my balance checks from the corebook, however there's a problem there:
Mono3, the Core 5K melee weapon is garbage, outside of niche case of Kleaver getting grabbed, or shot at (weapon falls immidiately when hit) you essentially get a better weapon than Mono 3 for 1/5th the price. I cannot believe that just the security that your weapon will not melt itself into the ground costs 4000 and a damage dice. Oh and a fire effect.
5K weapons are beyond street level, or rather at the top of it. Helix adds bonus 2d6, which is actually a 4d6 since armour is already done for. Cowboy adds 6d6 and a possibly double blast zone, Hurricane adds 5d6 minus the armour.
For some reason Perseus only add 4d6 and only after you done ambushing, must've been the possible cyberarm concealment or something, since I dont see any other reason for it to gain ROF2 after. So on and so forth, I dont recall anymore 5K weapons, maybe they were added later, maybe they didnt.
And with all that context take the Mono3, a regular ass damage VHMW, not even ROF2.
Only similar shit is the EMG which itself doesnt make sense, because it's a chemrail, as it uses standard ammo, but doesnt need recharge despite recharge rules being in the core just page from it. And yes, they're duplicated. which ignores SP 10 and below and is ROF1.
If it was a printing/editing error they'd probably fix it, as they already fixed pretty embarassing stuff. So my best guess is RTalds do really think that SP is THAT much more valuable than I do. Also LAJ is concalable RAW, available by vendits, so there's literally 0 reason for enemies to not always use it unless you shoot homeless people that is.

>>97357999
That's probably because the stories told in books work differently than the stories weaved through an RPG.
Cyberpunk is about high tech vs low life. In a book, you can get away with handwaving the former, but in an RPG, some people will want to play as people responsible for the technology part.

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>>97357553
Our campaign had an effective Media, an effective Techie, and one and half of an effective Netrunner.

>>97354652
Cont because I sperged out and went beyond text limit

Mono3 doesnt have a body requirement, maybe that's another thing.
>I wonder if there is one more bonus ability
On the top of my head.
>Resist torture/drugs
due to electrocution, duh. Gang jazzler has what, like DV13? It's a 100eb (or 500, mind's foggy on that one) piece of chrome that additionally deals no damage, so it fits. Alternatively spend two charges to push the DV to 15.
>+2 to style
garbage IMO, unless you gate it behind "item counts as a piece of fashionware required to obtain +2 bonus from fashionware", or that it only add style if you somehow compose it into anime cosplay or something.
>move enemy by a single tie
so, bash them by 2 meters, sounds powerful, extremely niche but may come in with some funny MA combos idk.
Also if you're a GM what the fuck are you doing? do you really need a game mechanic to tell you that people are, in fact, capable of pushing other people?

Anyway, Anon I think that even basic EMP effect is helluva effective, since you're basically doing two attacks (microwaver and a VHMW), one of which has a guaranteed hit, and the second deals +1d6. Sounds like a 5K tier to me.
Possible Tech Upgrades that come to mind:
>Double battery
>Another +1d6
>any of 'saka reaver effects
>guaranteed crit on a crit roll (like that DGD tech upgraded dum dum bullets do, or some black chrome mess with crits)
>lower the body requirement (I'd allow it, but strongly suggest you dont do it)

>>97354652
Cont vol2
There's also one thing people really oftentimes sleep upon, you can make an item that, by the moment of it's fabrication is already tech upgraded.
Black chrome did this on more than a handfull of items, I dont recall RAW anymore items went that way, but it's quite possible. I havent played RED for like a year now.
>reverse engineering
Yeah, if you're curious, a tech upgrade can be invented, so, any of these instances where you get an item that is specifically said to be tech upgraded, you could quite easily compare it to basic item and make such tech upgrade, then apply it to a different item.
This also means that innately tech upgraded item cannot be further tech upgraded.

>>97361275
Having two players netrunning and slowing down the game sounds obnoxious desu.

>>97361250
>0 reason for enemies to not always have LAJ

Lets talk RAW economy then. The least expensive rent you can have without being actually homeless is 600 eddies; eating kibble and renting a cube. If we model a shitty gang-banger as a rank 1 Solo (though it wouldn't change unless they were at least rank 5). That means that if we assume there are 4 weeks in a month and thus they can hustle those weeks, they will be making an average of 466.66 eb and thus be 133.33 eddies in the hole every month.

This means that if a boosterganger owns a set of complete LAJ, if he does not find a good paying job that month or some other form of score, he will be pawning it off for rent and getting a Kevlar jacket.

>>97357553
>I wish Cyberpunk was less like an MMO and more like a CRPG.
The last thing we need are TTRPGs that play like video games. Every time you people throw around terms like "rework" and "balance", I wonder if you'd be happier playing a MOBA.

>>97361953
And you'd probably be happier playing Vampire the Masquerade if all you want to is fuck around playing pretend and ignoring most of the game mechanics.

Red already is pretty "video game" like, it's just a poorly designed videogame with potential to be better if the designers weren't so arrogant and actually listened to critical feedback and not just the discord/reddit criclejerk that defends every wonky mechanic as some genius 5000iq move.

>>97290472
Has Red released any sourcebooks yet for the world outside of Night City? It's a pain having to come up with my own lore for a campaign just because I want to play a game set in say China or Thailand.

>>97363082
nope, all you have is 2020 books

>>97363082
They haven't released a book about the *inside* of night city yet.

>>97361595
They were slow only at the beginning, later they didn't take more time than the grenade chucker who used that fancy Black Chrome item that forces a different damage roll for each target.

>>97363863
Netrunning speeds up a lot with experience and when players realize that it's fully deterministic. Unless there's another runner on the NET you can know what's happening on your turn as soon as you get to the end of your previous NET turn, so long as you don't catch a bullet in meatspace.

>>97363706
going to be dreading that nearly everyone is a goody two shoes when it comes out
I get it, city got a clean nuke and life got fucked because of lack of items so most people are living in closed groups, but everyone so far is the same "we're nice :)" that everything lost bite because of it. Danger Gal Dossier is like a slap to the face with this.

>>97349774
>Which might be hard to get since they have a "fuck corporations" mentality.
I have my players look at a fellow NPC being richer than them because she took Edgerunners Inc jobs and they still go "fuck corps" despite them being dirt poor.

>>97364040
Yeah, the big problem I'm having with CP Red is that the very little we get about night city is incredibly inconsistent and a lot of it feels like a theme park or Vegas version of cyberpunk. I really wish I'd offered to run Shadowrun instead...

>>97364156
>Shadowrun
never played it but didnt it crash and burn recently? I heard that only the german version is the only one that makes the new edition remotely playable

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>>97290472
Mike and Talsorian probably wouldn't do this nowadays because it would be too controversial in the light of recent events. But i'm curious as to how Israel is doing in 2077, canonically they're one of the only nations that survived the Middle East Meltdown because they had a Ronald Reagan Star Wars laser defense grid. Yes. Jewish Space Lasers are really a thing in Cyberpunk.

>>97364040
That's just what happens when an IP stops being niche and becomes mainstream, all the edgy stuff has to be filed off for maximum appeal to the dumb masses and the politically correct moral busybodies. Happened to Star Wars, happened to Warhammer, it'll happen to Cyberpunk eventually.
Thankfully Mikes still alive to make sure the setting at least keeps some of it's original edge. Though he probably only has about eight or ten years left in him since he's in his seventies now.

>>97365277
I don't really give a single fuck about any edition other than 2nd, so it doesn't effect me in the slightest.

That being said, the 2nd edition of Shadowrun Anarchy that was just kick-started seems pretty decent, and I will probably snag it when it gets a physical release. It's telling that it's a company other than CGL that is making it.

>>97364040
>>97365426
Red Chrome Legion being the cliche 'nazis bad' punching bag while ignoring every other bad gang in Red is quite the odd choice. Especially when much worse shit like Tyger Claws exists in the same time too.

>>97365365
They survived? I could have sworn I read they were part of the glassing too

>>97366202
I love the red chrome because I just run them as agartha hyper chuds, people biosculpt to look like the white pharaoh and that nordic alien. For actual nazis (since the red chrome are generic fascists and that's enough of a difference) I made a splinter group called the black chrome legion who are full on Dirlewanger black sun types

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>>97366572
According to the Cyberpunk 2020 Sourcebook and Eurosource. There's an arms manufacturing company called IMI (Israel Military Industries) with it's HQ in Israel that still exists as of 2020, and according to the cyberpunk fanon wiki they still sell weapons into the era of The Red. Which implies Israel at least exists.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Israel_Military_Industries

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>>97366572
>>97367121
>>97365365
What's really funny is that while Europe, the divided USA after the corporate wars, all of asia gets their own dedicated lore book. The middle east was such a controversial topic they barely mention it.
The closest we got to one was When Gravity Fails, which is a lorebook for an entirely different cyberpunk setting (created by sci-fi writer George Alec Effenger) that is very different from mainline cyberpunk 2020 canon.

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How do you portray cybernetics maintenance?

>>97365426
>politically correct moral busybodies.

Doesn't that describe the current Red writers? Mike's written barely anything outside the corebook.

>>97310423
if the 'monster' would love me back with equal intensity, honesty and truth then I will love her until the world ends.

>>97367206
That item damage DLC is a neat baseline framework to use.

>>97367206
Scene dressing unless I need to drain money from the players.

>>97367121
> Only Egypt, Syria and Israel managed to survive intact as they were already in a ruined state caused by the war and as such were left alone.
I wanted to make a “what did they mean by this” meme, but… nothing good comes to mind.

>>97366706
Nice. Since RCL was originally just a 'hate' gang I introduced them as every hate group (white nationalists, black hoteps/israelites, MS-13, the Amish, etc) forced together because nobody else wanted them around. Their goal was to get enough money for the whole group so they can split NC before 'the end' as the 4chan gang a lot of the gang are oldfags and one is a netrunner who still runs the old NET and an AI gave him a copy of Cyberpunk 2077 as a bootleg prophecy and since Red Chrome Legion isn't in that game the netrunner is trying to get the gang out safely. The trick was I introduced a few gang NPCs to the crew as support on a few jobs and they began to find them charming.
>>97367732
This is what I do too, but instead of 3 months I did shorten it to 1 month and then things can happen. Otherwise I'd never get to see a funny malfunction happen.

>>97367534
This. Red is pretty pussified. I'm old and responsible, and am not allowed to say niggerfaggot any longer; and Red is lukewarm milk. Mike is gone, and the attitude era is over. I don't crave a return to early 00s performative edge, but I am sorely disappointed that Red lacks teeth to really have an opinion one way or another. General has gone over it before but Red struggles with showing the dark elements with gravitas, and giving the setting relevant NPCs some grit. When they do "tech with personas to interact with" gags they could at least add a humanity drain on them, rather than relegating them to 'annoying girlfriend gun' and 'the man was already crazy before he fell in love with his phone'. Come on, kids being glued to their smartphones is bad, right? IT'S A SOFTBALL COME ON!

>>97364040
My biggest issue with DGD isn't the tone of it, but the fact that it has nothing to say about organized crime, just street gangs. Where's the info on the Mafia, the Yakuza, the Triads, the cartels or even the Bratva? Does the catgirl brigade not care about them?

>>97369126
The catgirl brigade is a front by organized crime to draw attention away from themselves and remove smaller competition

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>>97369240
That'd be the sensible way to depict them, so it's strange that it's just headcanon and never specified in the text. If you want to go full future-criticism\satire today you'd make the corporations an impenetrable net of cooperation, conspiracy, and mutually assured destruction to really show how vast the threat to humanity is, and why the world of 2020 destroyed itself in a fuckoff war. Really low hanging fruit ripe for the picking, I can't imagine running contemporary Cyberpunk campaigns otherwise.

>>97369126
There is a single mention of a legit gangster who controls gambling and prostitution in Asian town in the core book. I agree with you, it's incredibly dumb that we have a bunch of Disney gangs, but no Yakuza or Mafia.

>>97368135
I guess Pondsmith figured that if they survived the Yom Kippur war, it's not that unbelievable that they'd survive a nuclear war.

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>>97367180
You should absolutely look up this sourcebook and the novels that inspired them, because they're an interesting time capsule of how American pop culture and the TTRPG scene saw the middle east pre-9/11.

>>97369794
I just finished When Gravity Fails last week, aside from an interesting setting, it's also just a great noir story, I highly recommend it.

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Thoughts on GURPS Cyberpunk?

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>>97367534
He written the Agents of Desire in Tales of the Red, though. Or a different one in the same book.

>>97364040
>city got a clean nuke and life got fucked because of lack of items so most people are living in closed groups
whats weirder is that the scavs in the time are nice, and not obviously grabbing everything thats glued to the floor. It would make more for sense for scavs to be worse in the time of Red than 2070s, not the other way around. It was a perfect time to establish that scavs are roaches because of their every man for himself lifestyle. What the fuck?

>>97369857
Is there much else cyber noir? I liked blade runner and want more of this specific subgenre but not much comes to mind

>>97370534
Other than system, how is it different from the setting of Cyberpunk by Mike Pondsmith?

>>97373290
I've been sort of glancing through it, it assumes a somewhat higher baseline technology level than CP2020 with shit like personal lasers. It's not really a setting though, it's gurps, so it's a toolkit to make your own setting. There is a setting book, gurps cyberworld.

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>>97365365
>>97367121
This is what I think an Israel in The Red and/or 2077 would look like.
>West bank is reduced to radioactive cinders by the meltdown.
>Rumor has it Mossad netrunners deliberately redirected the nukes intended for Tel Aviv to Palestine.
>Unproven. But feeds both antisemetic and pro-israel conspiracy theories.
>The Jordan River is so polluted you can't baptise people. The Salt sea is radioactive.
>Cyberware becomes common among palestinian survivors of the meltdown due to the high rates of cancer.
>It's frequently debated in the media if attacks by borged up palestinians are jihadist attacks, cyberpsychosis, or both.
>Israel used the chaos of the war to annex parts of the Negev and consolidate authority over the Levant
>Egypt and Syria demand stolen land be returned to them that was annexed after the meltdown, but Israel hasn't budged.
>Dome of the Rock is now a Synagogue.. Muslims the world over are pissed.
>The third temple hasn't been built. Yet. But there are serious talks about it in the Knesset.
>Secular and Orthodox Jews butt heads over this. Wondering if rebuilding the temple is poor optics.
>All of the Abrahamic faiths are understandably traumatized by the meltdown.
>Religion in Israel takes on a more apocalyptic tone, people genuinely believe they're living in the end times
>Jihadist nomad groups inhabit the radioactive sands from the Dead Sea to Iran.
>Mossad frequently deploys it's agents to infiltrate and undermine these jihadist groups

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speaking of RED source book, theres an update
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2026/01/16/state-of-the-rex-2026-an-update-new-things/
>Glen (pic rel) and North Heywood got art
>Interface 5 coming VERY soon, on finishing touches stage
>Night City 2045 sourcebook coming after Shadow Scar and then Fossilized Violence, another ttrpg???
>Mike is still working on Witcher

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>>97376601
North Heywood

>>97292231
and turns out the SoF stuff is in Interface 5

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>rusted chrome infinitely delayed for five times
>cant make up minds about Solo and Interface
>some random ttrpg about dinosaurs out of the blue
>Mike pushed to Witcher, his kids on Shadow Scar
>some random guy that does his balance on a powerpoint sheet and stays in his discord circlejerk for Cyberpunk
things shouldnt be this bad

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>>97363082
I've got a job set in Hong Kong and I wanted to really present it as another world to players used to Night City. It's sort of like a mini-campaign and the players have a two month time limit. I'm sure this could apply to other Asian countries. Post was too much lore for 4chins so I made a pastebin.https://pastebin.com/2LhbHLh1

>>97376702
>>cant make up minds about Solo and Interface
pretty sure Punknaught was part of Rusted Chrome or something, then it was released on its own after it or some other book got delayed years back. Not surprised this happened again

>>97376702
Don't R.Tal only have a handful of full time writers? Why are they pursuing this many projects at once.

>>97376772
>Hong Kong
Who wants to tell him about what happened to Hong Kong in the cyberpunk lore? Unless this is an entirely original setting.

>>97376601
This is supposed to be Pacifica before the Voodoo Boys and the Corps moved in right?

If Rusted Chrome being delayed so many times didnt tip them off that they need to either hire more workers or stop making so many projects beyond their scope, nothing will.

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At least the 2077 source book would release on time for the Edgerunners 2 anime
Right?

>>97376702
>>97377906
>Anon looks at you with a lightly pained smile, like a mother would, as if to tell a scared child 'Everything is going to be okay' but not wishing to give it false hope by telling a lie.
There's always 2020 books. They'll always be there for you.

>>97377738
Kinda makes you wonder what they're up to over there. I guess if it keeps the lights on but they have no higher aspirations it'd make sense to keep the family employed through pet projects that they then monetise, but even if you are an enlightened post-scarcity future-being with no need for cash in hand; there's still an audience craving more Cyberpunk. If the volume was higher I don't think anyone would complain individual pages were bad, but when you get 1 book per 3 years, of course every single sentence will be scrutinised like they're the bible.

Oh well, at least they're having fun writing their dinosaur game.

>>97377738
I figured they canned that long ago but weren't transparent about it.

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>>97377683
Damn it, well in my defense Hong Kong existed in 2020 before they got virusbombed and that's where I got this gig's inspiration from (specifically my GOAT book Edgerunner's Inc).

I guess it's time to CTRL+R and replace Hong Kong with Shanghai. Although I really wanted to use Kowloon and go crazy with netrunner mysticism (especially since the final boss would be an OP combat netrunner doing stuff like controlling 5 turrets every turn for the legendary RoF 5).

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>>97379065
Also adding page 2, I forgot this was a double feature.

>>97377906
Is there a release date for that yet?

We should write our own Solo of Fortune and call it Solo of 4chan.

>>97379065
I find it very funny how whenever there's something in the lore where it might get a bit politically dicey to take a stance. Mike's solution it is to just blow it up and kill everyone off.
>Who owns the west bank in this alternate history? Israel or Palestine?
>Nobody knows. Doesn't matter. They all got nuked to hell.
>Is Hong Kong independent or under control of of the CCP?
>Doesn't matter. Everyone died because of super-aids.

>>97381229
By his own admission, he loves blowing stuff up. It's why the setting has seen multiple 9/11s.

>>97380625
The anime? It started in production last year, give it like two or three years depending trigger's output
Announcing it starting to be made is weird though i guess CDPR is saying they got the Poland guy chained to his chair

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>>97382178
I don't know a lot about anime production (and I bet Trigger as a million projects queue'd up) but it's kind of funny to think that CD Projekt Red paid for a 10 episode anime OVA to promote their game that came out 2 years before, and at their worst moment the anime revitalized interest in the genre, video game and tabletop game.

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>>97383992
>The game.
I don't know how much the anime boosted sales for the game, but it had already sold 20 million copies. Phantom Liberty was a pretty good expansion, but honestly, I think a bulk of the sales came from CDPR notoriety. The anime definitely didn't hurt. A big factor is CDPR going back to fix things and update the game. I didn't buy it on launch because instinctively I knew it'd be buggy. I did pirate the game, though, and it ran decently enough on my old 1070, but I could tell it was struggling. I ended up getting it on sale sometime later because my "demo" sold me on the world, but I needed some desperate bug fixes, and I got tired of piracy shenanigans to update my game.
>TTG
I bought the ERMK as well as some older source books for 2020 because I thought they were cool. I haven't played the TTG with anyone in meatspace (2020, red or the ERMK version of RED). I'd like to at some point.
>anime
The anime really didn't pull any punches when it came to gore and adult themes. It went to some fucked up places while also delivering feels. Is it a good "cyberpunk" anime? I would say so, and according to Pondsmith, they "nailed it."

hooked my library group into playing Cyberpunk Red for a bit
players range from guys in their 30s and 40s to a 12 year old girl whose media is basically an irl catgirl vtuber

>Have you ever borged out or encountered borgs in your games?
another player wanted to go fullborg at chargen. Im letting him be an Alpha or Gemini, his choice, but in exchange he gets a classic/cliche plot where he has no idea who borged him or why (probably Nightcorp, haven't decided) but they definitely want him back

>>97385619
That's great. Do share how the first session goes and whether they like the game.
>>97385619
>but in exchange he gets a classic/cliche plot where he has no idea who borged him or why
You can also use the downsides of Deal with the Devil option from the chargen, they can be nasty.

>>97290472
>Have you ever borged out or encountered borgs in your games?

I had a dead PC resurrected as a MAX-TAC grunt in an enforcer body, this week. He was an idealistic lawman who was killed by the Tyger-claws after he went a suicide mission because they killed his partner, the party took out an entire Dojo; But he was killed by the master of the dojo.

That was about 2 months ago. The party was hired by the Claws to kill the Max-tac who was busting all their operations; They started kicking his ass with an ambush before reinforcements came, and a MAC-TAC hit two of them for 37 damage with a rocket.

After hauling ass to a ripper; They snuck into Night Corp HQ, by pretending to be IT, the runner hacked the servers, and they were shocked MAX-TAC's new borg was their dead friend; the Runner fried him when his biosystem was being repaired, because eddies are eddies.

>>97385773
so basically Robocop
fucking nice

>>97385682
>Do share how the first session goes and whether they like the game.

it went well. Teething issues as learming any new system has, mostly adapting to the damage reduction from armor and, in my case, working out a quick system for tracking armor ablation for enemies
ran the players through the scenario in Easy Mode, Getting Paid
pcs include a fairly stock solo, a drug dealing medtech who knows karate, a media flavored as a catgirl livestreamer whose ratings apparently come from violence, and... I forgot the last one. I want to say solo but can't be sure

dirty cops have kidnapped their fixer and stolen their payday. Luckily they are bad enough dudes to rescue their payday
They approach the shadowy figure with their money, get ambushed by dirty cops, combat ensues
mvp is definitely the media catgirl, who used her tripod in a manner consistent with a warhammer to kill 3 of the gonks
party captures last cop alive, rescues their fixer, discovers the cash in the briefcase was fake and drags the unlucky survivor along to the warehouse where the cops had stashed the real cash
party negotiated for 100% of the payday in exhange for captured cops life and giving them 2 minutes to evac before they burn the place down. Facilitating this, medtech made numerous allusions to just chopping up the captured cop for organs, right down to starting to mark off body parts with a sharpie
party now has a bounty

fullborg player couldnt join the session but he'll be joining next week

I like the screamsheet format for adventures, they give you a story framework but leave most of the work in the GM's hands
I dont plan on running from premade scenarios for long, but it was useful for figuring out how to balance encounters (clearly I need to add more kill)

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>>97386217
Absolutely blessed session 0, good job choom.
>I like the screamsheet format for adventures, they give you a story framework but leave most of the work in the GM's hands
This is pretty much what I do, I just skim a gig and get inspired for something of my own design. For example for the extremely well-written Agents of Desire I changed the Saturday Night Butt Kickers final battle to the crew infiltrating a yakuza lair (I mean come on if the idea was that Ai's engram could be cloned and copied as a free AI slave forever I feel like a bigger player would get it, not a technobarbarian gang), or for A Night at the Opera I set up the evil vampires as a huge infective presence down to even some NCPD having vampyre fangs and indoctrinated into the masquerade. And like most ref's I read Reaping the Reaper and thought that this plot point deserves a lot more love and made Reaper and his cloned AI into a more persistent threat. Also I took the various Bozo jobs and it inspired me to make an entire campaign out of it.

>>97385563
A diner that serves whiskey? Sign me up.

>>97290472
How do you as a GM handle the more explicit side of the cyberpunk universe without going too far into magical realm shit?

>>97388570
just don't include your own personal magical realm shit, or at least put it in sparingly for variety and have the focus elsewhere
you'll figure out the balance because youll know the point at which it's no longer something you want details on

>>97388570
>Hendrix is your target, he's a sex trafficker and serial killer, he killed the client's son in a hit and run accident when he tried to run over a puppy
>You enter the office and Marshall is being served by a prostitute under his office table, he waves her away when he realises you have the laptop and focuses on it entirely
>James will be in the brothel between 2 and 7, that will be the easiest time to extract him.
Literally that easy.

>>97290472
Hey guys, tourist here. Do any of you have sources for the updated Red corebook? Apparently the ones at drivethru are out of date, and i really didnt want to pull out erratas for things like the updated machine gun firerate every time

>>97389814
latest version of core is 1.25 to my knowledge
if you don't have it, check the sharethread's archive. The link they have hasnt been updated in awhile but it's close enough to current

>>97389879
Alright, thats good enough. Thanks a lot!

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>>97388327
It's Night City, I wouldn't be surprised.

>>97383992
It's not exagerration to say Edgerunners saved the game from being completely unsalvageable.

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Opinions on archery?

>>97397538
Silly, but like in a good way. Future bows firing future arrows to silently drop sentries and do all kinds of ninja shit is 10/10.

>>97397538
I love guns far too much to actually make use of it but I can see the appeal. Bows are quieter than guns, are legal to own almost everywhere and have reusable ammo. However, I imagine you'll still get laughed at if you're the only merc at the function with a literal caveman weapon while everyone else has smartlinked gats that blow the wall out.

>>97395753
The anime was nice advertising, but it didn't fix all the bugs and update the game. The game was undercooked. It needed another month or two worth of bug-fixing time. Also, the console versions were not really up to snuff. CDPR should have just made it a PC exclusive or only released it for consoles after they figured out how to optimize the game better.

They obviously got better at optimization at some point since the thing is running on a Switch 2 now.

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>>97397953
They won't be laughing at 5d6 HEP damage

>>97397538
Cool if you lean into it, being "the guy with the bow" is fun. But as a serious alternative to guns? Not a fan. I file it under 'Gimmick' like the guy who only uses swords, or fists, or explosives, or poison, etc. But you could hypothetically strap any sci-fi gadget to an arrow and do something cool with it. Just off the top of my head:
>Microphone arrow, listen in to target from afar
>Sensor arrow, get HUD info on the room it's in
>Explosive arrow, obviously
>Poison gas grenade arrow
>Strobe arrow
Basically anything you can pack into a fistful you can design into an arrow, or sometimes duct tape onto it. Thief has shown us the way already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUxsgmJv-2c&t=50s

2020, I sold my soul and have 320eb left over, any recommendations?

>>97398558
An escape plan.

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>>97373845
Some more ideas for the lore of the middle east in the cyberpunk setting that Talsorian and Mike will probably never make lore about.
>Egypt is still a one party dictatorship, similar to the way it was in the 90s.
>They were a bastion of authoritarian order in the ME and North Africa after the meltdown.
>They're currently pawns a corpo proxy war with their neighbor sudan, propped up by militech.
>Syria is in a similar position. A one party authoritarian dicatorship.
>Archaelogists sometimes hire islamic nomad groups to escort them into radioactive hot zones like Baghdad
>They intend to salvage historical artifacts thought lost in the meltdown.
>Dubai formerly a city of luxury is buried by sands but still inhabited by survivors, driven to religious madness by the meltdown.
>Kuwait once oil rich, is now impoverished with the world having switched to Chooh2 for fuel.

>>97398145
Anon, you're forgetting what is the point of videogame industry
It's the same as every other industry

>>97400325
Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

They SHOULD have let it cook more. But they wanted to hit that release window they'd announced. They SHOULD have optimized it for consoles before releasing it on consoles. But that's hard. So they went ahead and let people preorder a flawed product with the idea that "we'll fix it eventually." It was more profitable in the short term to simply release the game in an unfinished and buggy state than delay it and miss deadlines. A lot of the promised features they'd announced still aren't in the game, but it's better than it used to be. The anime was some nice advertising for people not clued into the game's universe, but by then, they'd already sold 20 million copies.

See also the covid vaccine.

>>97400338
I agree with you, yet given the fact that it's a pretty big company, they most likely done the best choice business wise and much more well informed than we are.
I'm no economics major, but there was a stock market speculation around the release, there's also the factor not all people that buy it on console will eventually return it for 100% cash. My guess is that even making a PC exclusive release would push back console players into unifinished AAA mindset, hence I'm positive they just did what every AAA company does, which is making serious motherfucking money

>>97398329
Other than artificially limiting special ammo types to arrows (I'm lookin at you James), what other gimmick does an archer have?
I only see that arrows are somewhat quiet, or at least pretty quiet compared to firearms, even silenced ones.
To be more transparent: a >>97398214 grenade can be launcher from a grenade launcher.
And a >>97398329 microphones, sensors and shit could be also launched with less primitive methods.
That being said, I've seen a fun custom made FBC on official discord homebrew that was all about mobility (so much leg enhancements it's unreal), really enhanced sensors and fun fluff that it was a bounty hunter choice, and they hunt like Yautja, doing massive jumps between tree branches n shit.
I'd post it's art which was pretty fucking awesome, but I cant find it, maybe some other anon will help with it.
Also it explicitly used regular ass bows, but it would take like 3 minutes to homebrew FBC bows.

>Orelius Bow
Deals 5d6, requires BODY of 11, 1K
>Militech Artemida Bow
Deals 6d6, BODY >13, 5K
Adaptative Bow
4d6 + BODY, no BODY requirement, 5K
>Militech Ballista
7d6, BODY 16, 10K

Just at the top of my head.

>>97390938
Cocaine is legal in Night City, anythings possible.

How do I come up with cool character handles?

>>97405283
google for name generators

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>>97405283
Use alliteration/rhyme schemes?

I made a dude called Felix "flickfist" Felter. He was a real chrome junky. He had a robot hand that he could fire as a projectile/thrown weapon.

>>97405283
This is something chatgpt is actually useful for.

>>97405283
It's a hard skill to explain from a storytelling perspective. A good handle should be one that the local edgerunning community recognizes you for (at least until your fame goes viral) so one of your premier skills or something memorable from your first big break job (for better or for worse). Players who want to select their handle may not like this (but then again CPR seems to indicate the players start off seasoned so their handle of choice could be a part of their backstory).

Now the real question is: matching handles for a crew? Preem or gonk? Having a theme could be fun but basing your rep off something as fleeting as an edgerunning crew could be disastrous. And I wonder if fixer might worry your crew has more loyalty to each other than to their gig and their eddies.

Is Red (and by extension these threads) dead for the foreseeable future?

>>97409638
Maybe dinosaur game is secretly another elflines mmo and an ARG or something.

>>97409638
How do you look at a thread that's nearing the bump limit, and the content of the thread is actually people talking about the game, both mechanics and setting, and not getting bogged down in the usual 4chan shit, and go "oh, well, this game is dead, this thread is dead?"

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>>97381064
Ok so to ACTUALLY do something with this
>weapons
I'd scour Blackhand's street guide but the idea would be basic weapons that can be customized for a mission's needs (and non-basic ammo) but also be standard (like what you'd see in a military unit, not something flashy like what you'd see on a 'runner). It would be cool to see some really heavy weapons. As a side note Woodchopper's Garage is pretty good for high end military gear.
>armor
Let's be honest... it's gonna be light armorjack, heavy armorjack, and flak but spiced up with the armor ideas from Black Chrome on armor that people would actually use.
>vehicles
I really want to see heavier vehicle armor. For example you could get SP15 Flak but it imposes a -4 penalty on Drive (which should only penalize tricks or driving on terrible terrain). A treads upgrade and a really really big cannon weapon would give us quick and dirty tanks.
>cyberware
I want both a mix of actually good tactical stuff and the most ridiculous specialized tacticool crap like pic related. I swear these caimen eyes are the dumbest thing but they're so sovlful. I bet they'd be popular with any Navy SEALS or swamp/jungle guerillas.
>gear
I might just steal some ideas from the Firestorms or even Ghost Recon.

>>97405283
Do what fighter pilots do for their callsigns and make it something embarrassing from your backstory

>>97412374
this
if a guy goes by Razor he probably cuts himself shaving

>>97399370
>>97373845
Surprised more people didn't comment on this considering the middle east is a very underexplored part of the Cyberpunk Lore outside of the meltdown.

>>97399370
In my aborted campaign I had "New Dubai" that was building an "eco friendly" megabuilding in Night City which was a front for SIGINT AI. I didn't flesh it out too much but I envisioned a floating Singapore mixed with Vegas run by not-Mohammed Bin Salman

>>97381064
Anon(s), I'm willing (gladly desu) to put your ideas into proper format, but you gotta give something more than a single post. >>97412149 (have a You)
Meet me in the next thread if you got any concrete ideas.
Two problems though;
>Communication
Through /tg will be nightmarish slog, but you can find me on official discord, and I'm here like every other day.
>Actual SoF45
I mean, it was said to be released in the first quarter of 2026, and the printing/shipping chain takes at least a month, that would mean we may not have enough time to make it a good one before official thing releases and swoops in with better take on same ideas.
That being said, the previous post got pretty good ideas on how to mine for content.
I'm just afraid that we'll overlap with RAW eventually making our turf obsolete.

>>97412149
double slit pupils my beloved

>>97413303
We do get some information on what Dubai is like in 2077. Basically it's like Dubai in the video game Spec Ops The Line, but with radiation burns.

>>97410105
I mean Red's not getting a decent sized splat for a while, writers are occupied with other projects, so there will be less to discuss and people will get bored.

Most of the posts come from a handful of autists and if they move on to new games, the thread dies.

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>>97416499
A Spec Ops: The Line-inspired campaign set in a ruined Dubai is my dream. Radiation, scavver gangs and war crimes, oh my!

>>97409638
Talsorian is allegedly releasing an expansion for it later this year for players that want to play a game set in the 2077 era.

>>97412149
>>97415197
Double slit pupils are cool, but they're an NPC item.
Players will see that they cost them 2 Humanity and will instead opt into something that they can use.
I did cyberfinger shenanigans once and I've learnt the lesson.

>>97420181
There's no such thing as an NPC item if you're not a coward.

Anyone played CyberGeneration? Are the modules also good to convert for RED?

>>97421175
If I'm going to eat a fat -3 to all social checks thanks to lowered Humanity, I might as well pick chrome that lets me survive.

>>97290472
>bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4Md
This doesn't seem to exist.

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>>97290472
>Have you ever borged out or encountered borgs in your games?
I'm always the GM on my 2020 campaigns and only twice I made the PC see a borg I mean once was a "Friendly" NPC in a premade campaign (chrome berrets the New Order Militia of cyber mercenaries) the other was infact an enemy a full on borg in cyberpsychosis and they just ran away instead of fighting (good move) because it was a run or fight scene that I planned but the fight was difficult but not impossible for their characters.
Anyway I was thinking to do a one shot game for new players and I wanted to make something inspired by The Raid and Dredd, something is in my mind but I think it's just a run and gun situation with little RPG maybe it's not good, I was thinking maybe to do even a little complicated to give the RPG feeling as a two shot or one shot the Idea was like again the Raid but the PC are not the Police nor the Gang I mean yes the gang but like the traitors who find the situation perfect to escape so they have to fight both the Gang and the Police so I can add the RPG element of bluffing your way out of a litteral war zone.

>>97295786
I thought the ERMK was a teaser for the full book.
Which should have been ready to go years ago.

>>97420181
Oh no it's 100% the most focused tacticool cyberware ever. I just love them for the flavor. Like someone would invent that. If I rewrote it for RED it wouldn't even be two lines. The actual rules would just be "If you'd ever suffer penalties for underwater (or partially between the surface of the water) you don't."

>>97422968
A lot of the books content is really good, for example I used the bus teen cyberpsycho from Bastille Day as the basis where the crew took public transportation once and the fixer got trapped on a packed bus as someone went cyberpsycho and the rest of the crew was running after the bus. The ideas are also really anti-Corp and don't pull any punches, and the lower stakes jobs like spraypainting anti-corp graffiti would be good for a session 0 session.

>>97426228
Yeah, that's been out for a while. The 3y3 still works but might be 3 years out of date. The local sharethread pirates are up to date but requires a treasure hunt. I made a mega folder https://bit <DOT> ly/cyborganarchist but I think it actually got reported because it's all empty now so I started making a new one but only uploaded some of RED so far https://mega <DOT> nz/folder/CwZjzbAR#8hx2Lo8JaPVttVmL56XsOA.

>>97428938
I will say for things like those double slits; not enough Refs for RED really apply circumstantial penalties when they c/should, so things like that that should really be ultra niche (and probably cost no HL) don't really appeal.

So made my first ever character for 2020, a Solo who was in the US Marines for 13 years and managed to get to be Special Forces. Got 8,265eb to spend at start, what's recommended that all characters get, and what are some non-essential recommendations?

https://rtalsoriangames.com/2026/01/24/cyberpunk-red-alert-interface-red-volume-5-solo-of-fortune-2045-released/

It’s been 15 minutes already, why nobody posted a PDF yet?

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>>97434578
>interface

>>97434578
This

>>97434578
>Power armor in the time of red
Maybe i'll be able to adapt the Night Sabers from Bubblegum Crisis into Reds mechanics.

>>97434578
>ACPAs
My brothers in chrome, it is time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aQRq9hhekA

>>97434578
I don't want to sound negative but I am interested to see how they dumb down the MM ACPA system for Red

>>97435449
Night Sabers are cracked in the ttrpg made by rtal.

>>97434578
a PDF is already posted

>>97436139
Where?

>>97436100
Talsorian made a Bubblegum Crisis game?

>>97436193
The same place they all are.

>>97436383
And a DBZ game, and a VOTOMS game. They were number 2 most weeb company behind Guardians of Order.

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So these are the new Range tables then

>>97436575
I used to praise range bands when they created a niche for handguns, but this is just too much.

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't a single good burst of Autofire just absolutely fuck up the DaiOni?

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>>97436660
Also the Boris being tankier than the DaiOni is strange to say the least, at least in my eyes.

>>97436660
An exact maximum damage Autofire roll from an assault rifle will deal 25 damage to the Dai Oni. (48 from the shot reduced by 19, 5 critical damage) The odds of this are about 3 percent on a successful 4-over autofire roll.

The most common result from the same successful 4-over roll will be 9 damage (28 reduced by 19).

>>97437024
24 damage. Fuck I'm tired.

>>97437024
Should have specified I don't mean like a one shot kill or anything, that's on me, but will easily deal enough of a chunk of damage that even 2-3 people firing at it can reduce it to around 1/4 of it's HP in a single round, which also means almost anything with less SP than a DaiOni will get fucked by it still. Also ACPAs can still be ablated, so armor-piercing will absolutely rip apart any of them immediately, especially if you got more than one person using it.

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Overall, I can't really see any of them as anything but underwhelming compared to 2020's. Feel really flimsy for something calling itself power armor, especially the Grasshopper. Especially considering you don't want to be wearing anything over a LAJ under it or you are still gonna be feeling the armor penalties and not being able dodge (if you are even in an power armor that allows it).

>>97437114

If we are assuming EXTREMELY well trained shooters that are consistently going to be getting their 4x Autofire; you're still looking at four highly accurate bursts of automatic fire. Armor piercing will make it more consistent, but won't change the average shots-to-kill. This is assuming no dodging and that the DaiOni is fully exposed to four shooters in optimal range.

Should the miracle pass that these four shooters completely destroy the DaiOni, they will still have dealt no damage to the occupant. What we are basically establishing here is "A crew in an ambush can disable a Dai-Oni in one round if none of them miss."

Alternatively, if we look at the Grasshopper: This is 18 HP and 15 SP that you can simply slap over any character in LAJ and likely over double their EHP. That's a lot of upside.

>>97437114
Trust me, thats never happening. Of course this is assuming the pilot is competent, if its a jobber all bets are off. But playing well, you arent going to get 3 guys together who are on a level where they can hit max multiplier on this thing. But also yes, the standard setups are more flavor and kimd of suck crunch wise. See fullborgs.

>>97437170
Fair enough, I chose DaiOni for this because it was THE tanky motherfucker in 2020 that required some of the heaviest firepower to put a dent in... only for it to be something that can have a decent chunk ripped off of it by some really basic small arms. And it only gets worse for most of the other PA's.

Also the Grasshopper more so irks me for now just being what amounts of fancy Light Metalgear.

>>97436572
>The same place they all are.

well link it then

>>97436660
>>97436688
>>97437138
>new item is just old items combined together for an exorbitant price

I know James will make the excuse that this is what he's been telling people to do about ACPAs for years, but c'mon this feels so lazy.

Can you use Nomad levels to buy these things or did they add the ACPA trooper role?

>>97437365
>well link it then
It's the PDF share thread. The usual place things are shared here.

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>>97437365
Nope, basically just fancy armors. Also isn't Dodging considering OP as fuck? These rules feel like trying to add downsides without actually having downsides.

>>97437386
just post the PDF file. The shar thread is a pain in the ass, no one posts the FAQ.

>>97437391
I dunno what R.Tal's process is when it comes to playtesting, but I feel like they always overtune items to the point of uselessness, or leave something

>>97437491
*or leave something broken to the point where it becomes an obvious meta game pick that devalues other items.

ACPAGOD won

>>97437491
>>97437525
alright got the file. why don't niggers in the sharethread post the full link, make me try multiple links until one works.

>>97437614
Well as an anon who had his megaupload gutted out of the blue those copyright strikes are a bitch.

>>97437614
It's a simple idea: If you're not able to work out how to get to the book, you're not going to be able to work out how to use it.

>>97437616
yeah fair enough I guess I just wish they'd add the updated FAQ to the OP. If anybody is still having trouble the it's a Go File link.

>>97437391
It does limit how you can build the APCA and still keep dodging:
- You can have a fast suit that lets you dodge without meeting dodge prerequisites
- You can be dodgy already and just have a suit that doesn't stop you from doing so
- You can be the ultimate gamer and just have a suit that doesn't stop you from doing quarter-rolls
- You can be a Solo

I would also point out that dodging very regularly gets magical bonuses is white room calculations because people don't weigh the magnitude of what happens if you DO get hit. When you're taking an ACPA out if your GM is following advice in the book you're going to be up against much tougher opposition that can and will fuck you in the ass with not even the barest notion of lube; and if they're firing rockets at you on the regular it might be good to sometimes not have them automatically hit.

I know anons are disappointed in the ACPAs but I feel good about the gun upgrades. Cheap and affordable attachments to bypass Exotics' limitations. Damage boosters for bows and snipers. Autopistols, autoshotguns, better SMGs, and tracer ammo to make autofire easier than ever, high velocity ammo to counter bulletdodging, and they're actually fucking affordable.

My complaints is no other military-grade vehicles like APCs, light tanks, boats, or helicopters, and it only gave us a couple new drugs that aren't chemical weapons. I wanted a few more of those.

The advice letter from Morgan Blackhand was a good read too.

So I got a session 0 coming up next weekend, gonna be a Solo, what's some equipment/cyberware you'd say is essential or just recommended in general?

>>97438102
Cyberware
>Enhanced Antibodies for faster healing
>Pain Editor is great but it's expensive for all the foundational cyberware you need for it
>Skinweave or Subdermal Armor are fantastic for subtlety and autorepairing itself while you heal faster with Enhanced Antibodies
>Nasal Filters are cheap and effective
>Anti-Dazzle is expensive but effective, Kiroshi OptiShield is a good alternative if you don't want cybereyes
>Level Damper for similar reasons as Anti-Dazzle
>Targeting Scope if you like going for Aimed Shots
>TeleOptics for long-distance marksmanship
>LL/IR/UV vision
>Speedware
>Toxin Binders
>Hidden Holster or cyberarm weapons
You can't go wrong with many of these, though getting all of them is far too expensive for a starting character. Pick and choose what sounds most important to you.

General Gear
>Agent
>Light Armorjack body armor if you didn't get Subdermal Armor
>Techtool to repair your own armor and gear
>Radio Communicator
>Anti-Smog Breathing Mask if you don't have Nasal Filters
>Binoculars if you don't have TeleOptics
>Flashlight if you don't have LL/IR/UV

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>>97438102
You're going to need at least one gun. Subdermal armor is pretty slick. Lets you move around without looking like you're trying to shoot up a place AND, and you don't have to repair it.

Do you plan to fully borg out? You can get subdermal armor and bone & muscle grafts with standard starting money. That buffs your stats AND sets you up to get a linear frame once you get more money. Even a modest linear frame can boost your strength and health by a substantial amount. If you save up and buy one of the better linear frames, you're a few steps shy of being small time smasher.
>>97438144
I thought everyone got an agent for free?

>>97438156
>I thought everyone got an agent for free?
You don't get anything for free, except clothing.

>>97438144
OH FUUUUUCK, I'm a fucking retard, I completely forgot to mention it's 2020. Shit. Honestly though a lot of that is still pretty good advice anyways.

>>97438171
That is an important distinction, but a lot of the same principles still apply. You need armor, affordable yet reliable weapons, and practical tools. You're the killer at the forefront of violence, you're going to shoot and be shot at, so you have to be ready for it. Speedware, smartgun links, muscle and bone lace, antibodies, radio link, anti-dazzle and level damper, whatever you think is so important that it needs to be built into your character and ready at all times.

>>97437756
>I would also point out that dodging very regularly gets magical bonuses is white room calculations because people don't weigh the magnitude of what happens if you DO get hit.

Unless the enemy is firing far outside their weapon's optimal range bands, you're better off dodging attacks. Even if the math isn't in their favour, players still like being in control and the swingyness of Red's dice gives you a chance to win a contests you'd otherwise lose.

Bullet Dodging is busted and you can only really fix the issue by reworking Evasion as a whole, but that would require a new edition or atleast a rules supplement with alternate combat rules.

>>97438291
At least now there is high velocity ammo and autoshotguns that can apply dodge penalties. They aren't even expensive so you can give them to mooks whenever you want.

>>97438323
Yeah it's funny, for all the effort they went to adding a gorrillion range tables and adding ACPAs, the anti dodge ammo is probably the most impactful item.

>>97438291
>Bullet Dodging is busted and you can only really fix the issue by reworking Evasion as a whole, but that would require a new edition or atleast a rules supplement with alternate combat rules.

Has anyone successfully homebrewed it to be more tolerable? One I've heard is that you need to meet the Reflex req and own some speedware, to mitigate the dump-stat feel

>>97438386
Combine Smoke Grenade with High Velocity Ammo and that's a dodge penalty of -6.

>>97438442
There's a number of homebrew rules people have made up, take your pick
>one bullet-dodge per round
>stacking penalties with every bullet-dodge
>reflex co-processor required to bullet-dodge

There's also enforcing vision cones more strictly. You can't dodge an attack you can't see so if a player is shooting at one mook across the room, the GM could say they don't see another mook pop up from behind and shoot them in the back.

Verdict on everything else other than ACPAs? The drugs and guns look strong, but no melee weapons looks strange and adding vastly more range bands on a simple table is retarded. At least Autofire got worked on a bit

>>97438291
Okay. So I've done a breakdown of this a couple of times and I don't really feel like doing all the math again, but let me crunch down some insights I recall.

Armor works in damage bands; the armor values in the book correspond to average damage values out of a certain number of dice, so outside of critical hits there are a number of armors that specifically no-sell or 50-50 damage from certain dice numbers. The reason this is valuable is that, since you don't have to make a check do mitigate your damage, you also don't mitigate your damage less well when you are exhausted or hurt, or suffering circumstantial penalties. An 18+ evasion base is great up until you're in an actual surprise round and someone drops a 5d6 sniper round into your leg (or head) because you literally cannot dodge unaware. Additionally, dodging is soft-countered by autofire, because breakdancing in Light Armorjack is all well and good a lot of the time until you fumble and they're slapping you with a huge chunk of hurt that's going to make it harder for you to not die.

Broadly, the best EHP will depend on what you're getting shot at with and will be a mix of evasion, armor, shield use, debuff mitigation and using cover. A lot of people online also tend to assume absurdly optimized combats where, for example, medium pistols do not exist. Night City is not Skyrim, rifles do not and should not magically materialize in the hands of crackheads just because you put on your 'not going to die to 9mm' pants today.

>>97439053
I think a lot of people are overreacting to the range bands; more autofire bands are good and each weapon is selecting from one of three range-bands tops (and, absent the obvious design space of being able to switch with a TUp or invented attachment, will only be using one of those bands at any given time)

>>97439396
>I think a lot of people are overreacting to the range bands
I like what they DO.
I just dislike how they are: contrived and numerous. There's no rule or pattern you can memorise, so you're forced to consult the table all the time.
When only a few were used, that was manageable.

>>97439396
My only problem on the range bands is how cluttered it looks. Needs a better format with categories or something

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>>97436383
Ye

>>97439506
Nothing is stopping you from making a house rule that says
"All handguns use this table, and shotguns use that table," and so on. If there's a special weapon with an extended stock or a scope, have the player keep that range table for themselves to use for that gun on tap. If it feels like things are too loosey goosey, you can always modify shit later before a session begins if you need to rebalance something.

I'm just happy to have Iron Man suits and proper autoshottie rules.

>>97439506
It seems to me that the thing to do would just be to have the player copy down the relevant table, like people used to do for the to-hit tables in old d&d. Maybe not the most elegant solution, but not the end of the world, either.

Do we have AOE autofire yet

Any recommendations for 2020 premade modules?

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Reading the acpa section and like the other guy said it's quite underwhelming. No scatterpacks really stings and some stuff like the militech autodoc having an AI waifu in it or the guardian having a built in police databank being gone entirely sucks some life out of the suits. No flight either seems odd to me, it was a big sewction in max metal but it was expensive and clunky, and I think it could have actually done well with RED streamlining but instead it's just excised entirely.
Something unrelated I just noticed too they took out the grenade launcher/shotgun from the jungle reaper. That was like it's whole thing it's the pulse gun from alien

>>97440229
>quite underwhelming
I'm 99% positive this upgrade list could be streamlined into ACPA components in seconds.
>https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13M8JJh1qC9VaqZ6kPM3NTXJCX10H_HHg

>>97439506
I don't mind consulting a big table but they should offer a quick and easy reference doc you can open in a window or print out.

>>97439579
Or just banning the range band attachments outside of whatever you as the GM specifically give them. The first page of Solo of Fortune even reminds the GM that these items should be restricted or banned from Street-level campaigns.

>>97439715
Only autoshotguns loaded with shells.

>>97439578
>>97436383
Interesting. I thought about adapting Bubblegum Crisis characters into Red. But they seem out of place in the world of Night City.

>>97439699
Players and GMs only need to remember the range bands for the weapons being used in a fight. But one point of range attachments is carrying multiple guns for different situations, so every player could have a pistol/SMG with a shotgun/assault rifle and all of them could have different barrels, so efficient players will be using a lot of the new range tables simultaneously. And that's not accounting for enemies too.

But it's a self-inflicted problem. If a GM doesn't want to bother with the new shit, they can just ban it.

>>97440874
>Only autoshotguns loaded with shells.
ill take it, hopefully a stepping stone for spray and pray to all autofire guns later