and then everyone clapped
Imagine actually reporting someone because they beat you in an argument kek
>screencapping his samefagging of his own post so he can repost it two weeks laterThis is a special kind of sad.
>>97304480The moderator in that thread pruned more than just him. He’s not special.
>>97304468In this case everyone who agrees with OP brapped.
OP was exposed as an Indian by /cyoag/.
>>97304510>everyone is an indian if they disagree with me on literally anything I bet you don’t even know how to write or read in cursive, kid.
The magic vs miracles thing, or magic vs science thing, or magic vs psionics, etc, never made much sense to me
>>97304519>bragging about a literally useless form of communication
>>97304496Thats the point. Framing a onbscure argument that nobody else cares about as a “win” a couple of weeks down the line is a distinctly 4channel thing tho
>>97304496OP was probably banned and sometimes when mods ban someone they delete all of that anon's posts.
>>97304496Only the sort of faggot who would samefag his own post to call it a "Trvth Nvke" would bother screencapping that response instead of just the post he wanted to talk about
>>97304533>magic vs science thingIt's rooted in the myth that cold iron repels spirits.Science is man's attempt to capture and harnessing the known physical world. In this way mankind is able to use symbolism to deprive magic of its power.
>>97304594Consider >>97275889>>97304703I love it when anons get threatened by other anons being in agreement>>97304770>It's rooted in the myth that cold iron repels spiritsNo it isn’t you fucking dumbass
>>97304804>Doesn't recognize epistemological divisions that Westerners take for granted.>epistemological divisionsYou imply as though science didn’t win the epistemological war, and that any other type of epistemological argument isn’t running on scientific logic (no matter how much you claim it doesn’t/isn’t). Sorry. Nature is nature. Reality is reality.
>>97304854Are you OP? Did you come here to continue an argument that nobody else cared enough in the first place to continue in your place once the mods banned you? How pathetic.
>>97304832>No it isn’t you fucking dumbassYeah it is. It's an old fantasy trope.Git gud with your hobby, fa/tg/uy
>>97304533It's just flavor. Same way sports rivalries ultimately don't truly matter beyond the fun of rooting for your tribe vs the other one.
>>97305311Okay, but if it’s just flavour, why do people lose their shit when you point out that they aren’t really all that different beyond the superficial?
>>97305321Honestly, depends on the context you bring it in. If you're talking about in a game setting where the distinction actually matters whether in terms of mechanics or fluff, then yeah, they're gonna get pissy since the writers took the time out to explain that there's an actual difference for the sake of the game. But if you're talking about in terms of actual people, the ones sitting down at the table to play games, whether it matters if there's a difference, then obviously nobody truly gives a fuck. It's like debating whether the Ultramarine Space Marines or the Imperial Fists are better. You can use whatever nerd logic you like to debate their theoretical merits, but it's still essentially flavor at the end of the day which flavor of beakie you prefer.
how did puckee go from posting ai art with backstories to throwing board-wide meltdowns
>>97305343>If you're talking about in a game setting where the distinction actually matters whether in terms of mechanics or fluff, then yeah, they're gonna get pissy since the writers took the time out to explain that there's an actual difference for the sake of the game.We’re in the OOC. Looking down at the game from our perspective there is still no difference to be had.
>>97305388Yes, I agreed with you there. It only really matters if it's a talk of mechanics or how the designers make the game, like say the rules explicitly state scientists cannot make use of magic tools or vice versa. Otherwise, it's just flavor. Though if you're pondering why a game dev would codify that in the game's rules to begin with, that's a question for them and not /tg/.
he's so right is astounding.Even goetic demons are mostly about being dispensaries of natural philosophy and science
>>97306651Glazing your own post is kind of sad, man
>>97306957It always blows my mind now people are so triggered when someone disagrees with them that they end up convincing themselves it’s just one person. Surely no one else could agree with them!
>>97308091It's not the agreeing part, it's the fact it's written exactly like OP's self-masturbatory writing that makes it obvious that post and yours are both OP trying to samefag his way to popularity
>>97308134You’ve been paranoid of [insert specific poster here] for 10+ years. You’re no different from the guy screaming “bumpfag!”.
>>97308811Considering I genuinely don't know a thing about OP beyond that he's clearly a loser screencapping his own post, you trying to accuse me of being someone that's been here for ten years is honestly telling on yourself, OP.
>>97308893Go to 4plebs right now and type in bumpfag you intentionally disingenuous son of a bitch
>>97304533You don't know much about history or science, that's why it doesn't make sense to you.
>>97308910I'm not talking about bumpfag, I'm talking about you, OP, the guy so insecure he has to screenshot his post agreeing with himself and make a thread about that over his insecurities. Cause I don't see anyone here typing "bump". But I do see a big gay baby.
>>97308923>gets pruned for being rational>likely got reported by the ‘nooo magic is not the same nooo’ guy>purely for causing so much asshurt with superior arguments Nah he has full license.
>>97308913If you knew anything about the history of how humans perceived such fields, you’d agree with him too.Please refrain from just stating baseless shit in the future. It could save you from the embarrassment.
>>97309028Your disguise isn't fooling anyone but yourself, OP. Unless you're a troll, in which case you're doing a fantastic job of making OP look like an even bigger sad sack of shit than before, so keep it up.
>>97309056I accept your schizophrenic concession.
>>97309056How much did his rationality trigger you?
>>97309064>>97309079Lovely samefag there
>>97309312Idiot
>>97309331Multiple computers, I know
>>97309028>likely got reported by the ‘nooo magic is not the same nooo’ guyLOL, like I care so much about some derailed thread on /tg/ to even think of reporting some anonStill, I'm really flattered to read how I live rent free in your head, anon.
>>97304533The funny thing is that if you removed latin influence from the English language, the word we'd use for scientist is wizard.It's literally someone whose job it is to be wise. Like a drunkard is someone who's drunk all the time.
>>97310364All the anti wonder fags who think miracles are distinct from magic also forget that the word itself meant wonder.
Hi wonder-fag aka OP
>>97311555Trips of truth
>>97304480and yet he Won
>>97311828If you have to declare yourself the winner because nobody else will, OP, that's kind of pathetic
>>97304453The associations stopped being a thing some time during the epistemological shift from Rationalism to Empiricism because the mystical perspective did not make the transition, >>97304854>and that any other type of epistemological argument isn’t running on scientific logicArguments are allowed to be wrong, and Elfgame can declare them to be true within its context contrary to facts of reality.>Sorry. Nature is nature.The existence of terms like "Natural Law", "Naturalism Bias", "Unnatural", and the use of "Artificial" as an antonym all necessitate the common use of the word "nature" be contrary to your argument. Prescriptive definitions are bullshit, and without them you're just a raving lunatic incapable of grasping the concept of a counterfactual.>>97305321Because insisting absolutely every possible reason to draw the line is mere superficiality and that all difference in their connotations actually don't exist in EVERY FUCKING THREAD THAT TOUCHES THE TOPIC is rather annoying.>>97305388No, there is, because we have different words for them that mean different things carrying different connotations. You can't re-define mechanisms of semantic precision and ambiguity out of existence, that's just not how language works.>>97309052The history varies by time period and location. Today, they're looked at as different, and that's the context of the words we use to discuss, not the fucking Greeks denigrating Babylonian astrologer-priests.>>97309079Insisting on exactly one definition of "nature" that breaks a large swath of routine discourse is not rational, and insisting your framework for reality extends to fictional constructions specifically devised to contradict precepts of it is fucking delusional.
>>97312936Oh look he’s here. The butthurt anti wonder faggot.
Wizards should be scientists in fantasy games because in those games magic actually works, you know, like science.
>>97313232Hi wonderfag>>97313285You should make your own game where they're like that then. Be the change you want to see, anon.
>>97312104I accept your concession
>>97313368Thank you for proving my point, wonderfag
>>97313232I'm not against wonder in itself, I'm just against prescribing it total synonymy with "magic", because there's rather a lot of shit in TTRPGs reliant on other meanings of the word that have nothing at all to do with emotional response.>>97313285Not strictly necessarily, given how long it took to arrive at empiricism IRL and how many ways magic could work in a way impervious to locals' empirical methods. The "higher-dimensional physics" copout is actually a good example, as it places the mechanisms outside any observation the users could make.
>>97313468>I'm not against wonder in itself, I'm just against prescribing it total synonymy with "magicThen you fundamentally do not know the origins of magic.
>>97313481No, I just disagree with the conclusion that said history overrides common usage in /tg/ matters, instead being of the opinion that said history creates a plethora of independent archaic definitions that must be distinguished by context. Because otherwise you're rendering meanings of the word prior to its synonymy with wonder unintelligible, making the very same historical analysis you're using to argue for prescribing that meaning incoherent.
>>97313501>No, I just disagree with the conclusion that said history overrides common usage in /tg/ mattersWhere do you think fantasy comes from
>>97313501I think OP is trolling you, dude. Or is just too enamored with himself to go to >>/lit/ where he belongs
>>97313508The adoption of the term comes from the detachment from reality, not the evocation of "wonder".
>>97313359>You should make your own game where they're like that then.I don't have to, it already exists, it's called dungeons & dragons.
>>97313893Right in your own image Arcana, Nature, and Religion are separated, only Investigation is not rote memorization, and these being separate skills is saying they're not overlapping.Mechanics representing this would need incremental research to understand functions from which spells are made more effectively/reliably, which I can think of no example of in D&D-proper history.
>>97313966too bad you're objectively wrongAlso anon- what do you think science is? Because I'm pretty sure the definition of Investigation checks is just a casual description of the scientific method ('look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues' = hypothesis -> collect data -> analyze -> draw conclusion).
>>97313992>too bad you're objectively wrongStill not necessarily. Scholarship and theory long pre-date empirical methodologies that define "science" as a distinct form of learning.>Because I'm pretty sure the definition of Investigation checks is just a casual description of the scientific method ('look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues' = hypothesis -> collect data -> analyze -> draw conclusion).It's missing experimentation, which is Rather Important because that's how you test hypotheses.
>>97314008>sTiLl nOt nEcEsSaRiLy
>>97314008Experimentation would be when the PC touches The Thing that they theorize is safe to touch, btw give me a Con savebut it's clear already you're an absolute retard that would not accept this is the case even if wizards literally had an innate ability called Science™.
>>97314017...Are you under the impression that an argument about semantics SHOULDN'T be autistically specific in evidentiary standards?
D&D wizards aren't scholars, they pick up spells from a menu of premade options like fatman picks up "a number 9, large number 3 with fries and a soda" at Drive Thru.Only NPCs get to invent, test theories, discover new magic, form classifications, etc.
>>97304565Fuck you, it looks nice.
>>97314036False. Your DM is just bad at letting you do this. There are even rules in the DMG for letting your players design their own spells.
>>97314029>but it's clear already you're an absolute retard that would not accept this is the case even if wizards literally had an innate ability called Science™.I'd disagree with the author's use of the word qualifying for this argument if it was sufficiently contradictory to the empirical framework of study that is the contrast of the magic vs. science trope, but it's quite possible to demonstrate a scientific process through research rules that are incremental.>>97314036No, the free spells on level-up are fluffed as independent research and you actually have to spend time studying writings to copy them into your spellbook. And back in 3.5, you can find spell research rules on pg. 198 of the Dungeon Master's Guide:>Research requires an expenditure of 1,000 gp per week and takes one week per level of the spell. This money goes into fees, consultants, material component experimentation, and other miscellaneous expenditures. At the end of that time, the character makes a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that roll succeeds, the character learns the new spell if her research produced a viable spell. If the roll fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying.Of course, a "viable" spell is "DM-may-I" with fuck-all guidelines and remains devoid of what epistemological approach is used, but it does exist.
>>97314041Guess how we can all tell you've never actually seen it happen at the table. Go on. Guess.
>>97314041>>97314098In my experience, the only times spells were invented by PCs were when we were playing a system where the magic was flexible from the get-go. At least a little customisation presented as default rules instead of being a variant printed in GM-facing book. Otherwise neither the players nor the GM bother.Maybe if you count swapping traits and damage types in Pathfinder to make an"Iceball" or Ray of Flame, but that used Oscillating Wave Psychic as the precedent, the example, and the template.
>>97314224>At least a little customisation presented as default rules instead of being a variant printed in GM-facing book.fun fact, this was gonna be in the 'One D&D' ruleset that got abandoned after all the babies cried that they weren't going to be able to use their old 2014 books anymore even though Wotsee Said, WOTSEE SAIDThere was a 4th level spell planned for the PHB that allowed you to make specific changes to a prepared spell you already had memorized, and a 5th level spell that let you make the modified spell permanent and scribe it as its own unique spell and name it Anon's Ritual Lightningball or whatever.
>>97304453That's not the truth and it's not anywhere near the top of the list of reasons people hate you.
lol OP mind broke the retards
>>97314468I think it’s more that throughout history magic and religion and whatnot has always had this vital air of mystery and wondering about the unknown. It’s how magic and religion started. Mystery cults. Mysticism. The occult, the arcane, the esoteric, etc, all meet the same essence. Seeing some funny old man do some amazing thing and accusing them of being a wizard is no different from the ancients looking to the stars in the night sky and accusing them of being the gods. Existence is both stage and magician, including its participants. Magic is at the edges. Even in a rigidly understood system there’s going to be areas left to still to poke at. Still to wonder about. Mystery.
>>97315644>>97315844Hi OPAny chance you could tell us what this has to do with /tg/ sometime? Thanks.
Jannies really won't moderate anything besides political views they disagree with, huh.
>>97317538Slop Fighter sucks
