I've been playing games for almost two decades now and people who pump Charisma are consistently the most useless faggots in every party. And this remained true even during the very few times I have attempted it myself.I have no choice but to arrive at the conclusion that Charisma and every one of its iterations across every fucking game ever is just genuinely useless placebo dog shit. And when pressed to justify their investment charismafaggots always ramble about how good it is in real life as if that has any fucking bearing at all on TTRPGs.Besides, it's not that good in real life either. Actors and performers were considered on the same level as prostitutes in status for most of history.
Sure playing a main character syndrome martial is overrated but CHA fullcasters work as well as any fullcaster does in D&D which is to say better than any martial.
>>97308068>yes, I believe being able to persuade people in-game is a useless skillStop eating paint chips.
>>97308068>"Noooo! You can solve conflict by talking, I don't like that!"
>>97308219except you don'tyou "solve" the problem by rolling a die and comparing it to a numberit requires no thought or skill from the player
>>97308068>And this remained true even during the very few times I have attempted it myself.I think that's unironically a skill issue you have
>>97308232Neither does "use weapon to hit thing good", does it?
>>97308068your game doesn't allow you to be good at talking and fighting? why?
it feels good to not play D&D
>>97308068Sounds like an issue w/ your table. It's what the GM makes of it. Just like everything else. Don't put the players in any fights? Fighting abilities are pretty useless, too.
>>97308270Except it also applies to every other game that has a charisma equivalent.
>>97308294Care to name ten different non-D&D games with detailed examples to support your thesis?
i always liked that GURPS rolled social skills into IQ and Charisma was an advantage you could take which gave bonuses to those skills. it makes sense to me that a smarter character is generally better at knowing what to say
>>97308294you might be surprised. The moment I moved away from D&D the dumb tabletop memes mostly disappeared
>>97308334Nope, it's even more apparent in games that aren't all fighting like D&D just how fucking worthless charisma is.Play Call of Cthulhu and you'll find yourself unable to convince the cultists to cease their evil ways, rendering that part of your character sheet completely irrelevant.
>>97308307nWod and oWoD are more than ten games between the two of them. They break Charisma into 3 stats and have an entire column of skills devoted to operating in the exact same way as D&D.You're lying. Shut up.
>>97308334Depends in which direction you move.
>>97308232So is it useless or OP? Make up your mind
>>97308349So every time you made a charisma based character, your plan was to walk up to the bad guys and ask them to stop being bad. Exactly how retarded are you?
>>97308377My plan was to use my charisma skills for literally anything relevant but it doesn't work that way because those skills are dog shit.
>>97308390Sounds like a skill issue w/ you and your GM.
>>97308401Sounds like you can't justify their uselessness and continue to shill the tabletop equivalent of snake oil.
>>97308405It's often the case that people who don't understand what a tool is for can't comprehend why you'd want one.
>>97308420Any other retarded catchphrases?
>>97308349>>97308390>stupid player gets mad about his GM not letting him make le epic charisma rollstale as old as time
>>97308284>combat skills let you kill people>stealth skills let you hide from people>survival skills let you survive in the wilderness>crafting skills let you craft shit>social skills let you... um... well you know? ask your GM
>>97308377Ironically enough, in 3.5/pf sufficiently optimized and geared Diplomacy build should be able to pull this off.
>>97308448>nooo you don't get it, you're not supposed to use charisma for anything actually useful!
>>97308458there's tons of useful social checks to make. the fact that you think "convincing cultists to abandon their evil ways" is even an option shows that you're out of your depth. this shit isn't New Vegas where you can click a button and beat the bad guy because of how good you talk
>>97308473>this shit isn't New Vegas where you can click a button and beat the bad guyworks with other skills
>>97308453>social skills let you...Persuade others.>>97308427That's not a "catchphrase." It's an analogy. Or really an abduction.
>>97308476>Persuade others.Except they don't, and ironically charisma shills are the ones to shriek the hardest when you try to insinuate that they're supposed to do that: >>97308377 >>97308473 >>97308448
>>97308390I've run multiple games where I've actually gotten kind of frustrated by my players not getting into fights I'd been planned for due to them just talking themselves out of trouble, and in some cases talking potential enemies into allies. How, exactly, have you tried to use social skills in games if you've found them so ineffective?
>>97308474yeah you're right. when you roll Intelligence to investigate or recall arcane knowledge that heckin kills the baddies! when you roll an attack you roll your strength and suddenly when the roll is high enough then the enemy is instantly obliterated and that's all there is to it
>>97308491See: >>97308401Because that sounds like a skill issue with you and your GM.
>>97308068If every campaign you play is just a mindless dungeon grind it won't be very useful but in that case you need a better GM.
>>97308474which skills? >I roll to lockpick the cultists from their evil ways
>>97308505None of the people I quoted are my GM.
>>97308508>using dnd for a social campaign
>>97308510>>97308504>I roll to kill the cultists
Yea, it's a (you) problem like others have said.COOL/EMP/Fellowship based skills have been used countless times in my playgroups to great effect, even in combat when f.e. a successful persuasion made a quarter of mooks run away instead of continuing to fight.
>>97308530Except that never actually happened.
>>97308349>I can't talk fanatics into abandoning their religion so persuasion is uselessWow you're impressively retarded.
>>97308527that's not how rolling to kill works
>>97308354>Only gives two examplesI accept your concession
>>97308539And there it is again >>97308491>charisma is not supposed to do anything chud, temper your expectations!
>>97308545Holy shit you're dumb.
>>97308545>Tries to persuading a fanatic that is so deranged that they want to summon an elder god is>Fails>"ermagerd charisma is useless!">Never looks up what the word "fanatic" meansLol
>>97308545it's impossible to a religious cultists out of their religion. why would you even get to roll for that?
>>97308562>>97308557>Charisma is not supposed to work on anyone who doesn't want to be convinced.they just keep going!
>>97308572>t. can't readdo you think charisma is supposed to function as mind control?
>>97308582My bad, it's supposed to function as useless dog shit.
>nuh-uh, didn't happen!Worthless cretin.
>>97308572What is the definition of "fanatic" again?
>>97308572Brother, consider the possibility that some subset of people being beyond persuasion doesn't mean that all or most people are so. Also consider the possibility that even if you can't talk a fanatic out of his religion, you might well be able to persuade him that doing x instead of y would be a better way to serve his god or cult or whatever. You seem to be arguing that persuasion can be either omnipotent or useless and nothing in between.
>>97308589maybe look in the book for your TTRPG of choice and see what the actual examples for persuasion/deception/intimidation are
>>97308592>>97308596>charisma isn't supposed to DO anything bro! and it's your fault that it doesn'tspeaking of fanatics...
interesting thesis. however, you're wrongwith my casual +8 and your wisdom of 10 (generous), i will pass this deception check on a 2+
>>97308602oh interesting. its almost like simply being spoken at isn't enough for you to change your predisposed beliefs
>>97308613you're finally getting it
>>97308602Okay, I'll bite. What was your charismatic argument that you feel super convinced should have convinced these religious fanatics to stop whatever they were doing? Be as specific as possible, because I'll give you a fair shake on this and not assume you're just trolling like a cretin, and that this was in fact an actual instance where you and your DM disagreed on what it would take to convince a cultist of a yog-sotthery worshiping deity to just stop entirely.So what exactly did you say that you think your charisma should have carried through on with convincing them?
What the fuck is it with so many fa/tg/uys apparently being utterly convinced that there are no differences between groups or GMs, that everything at every table must work exactly as it does in their table, and that everyone telling them otherwise must be lying? I've no problem believing that OP's played games where Charisma, persuasion and such are useless. Maybe it's the way his GM runs things, maybe their games are ones where enemies just tend to be the kinds of nutjobs who can't reasonably be talked to. That's all perfectly plausible. Insisting that the same must be true for every other table and that no anecdote that would imply otherwise can actually be true is either peak denial, actually delusional or a particularly obnoxious brand on shitposting, however.
>>97308562Cult deprogramming is a thing, though it does get pretty brutal, becoming basically "mindbreak, but for a good cause", which can be fun to roleplay if you have the time... haha.For more immediate solution, maybe try convincing the cultists that you're on their side to de-escalate the encounter?
>>97308624This particular issue has been consistent across every group and every GM.
>>97308625cult deprogramming is a years long process which would include hundreds of charisma skill checks
>>97308624Honestly, it's ironically that his own wording is in and of itself charismatic and so obviously aggressive and bull-headed that makes it seem like he's just being a salty bitch. It is very probable he had a terrible experience, but he comes across as such an asshole and baby that people want to stand against him anyways.
>>97308602Could you please read the posts you reply than and then, you know, actually reply to what they're saying? Last time I ran a game, my players convinced a bunch of asshole elementals allied with their enemy to ally with them instead. I'd assumed they'd end up fighting those guys, but they ended up talking themselves not only out of a fight but into a useful alliance instead. That was a pretty good and impactful use of persuasion. Whether or not players could've also persuaded said asshole elementals to completely change their outlook on life (maybe they could've, but it would've been a whole lot more difficult and taken something more than one good roll) isn't really relevant.
>>97308626It hasn't been consistent in my groups or with my GMs. Have you ever considered that every group you've been in has at least one thing in common? Maybe that common factor is the reason for this issue.
>>97308666I don't play charisma characters, retard.
charisma checks have a few important functions:>finding out what NPCs want>pretending to be someone you're not>improving disposition with random encounters >exploiting social vulnerabilities (disgruntled minions, scared townsfolk, reluctant oppressors)the trick to properly GMing a good NPC encounter is to give every NPC a goal or an objective that the players can sus out and use as leverage to get what they wantif your GM doesn't structure his NPCs then cha checks lose impact. thankfully every class in 5E is a combat class anyway
>>97308625>For more immediate solution, maybe try convincing the cultists that you're on their side to de-escalate the encounter?While that sort of thing is possible in pretty much every game, based on OP's responses so far, that doesn't seem to be enough for him to consider persuasion skills useful.
>>97308671except for when you do like you stated in OP
>>97308633Which can be a fun sidequest if you're working on long enough timescale and can arrange it in a way that doesn't bog down the rest of the game.
>>97308692OP honestly just seems like he's trolling, cause he's refused to elaborate on just what he actually said. Cause a persuasion check can range from spinning a several minute long yarn with actual plausible lies mixed with half-truths, to someone half-assed going "You should be on my side cause I'm the good guy". And I've seen both, and the latter always causes a huge uproar on how rolling good on charisma while going with that is not quite enough to fully convince someone.
>>97308491This actually is a very consistent part of every social skill related discourse. Kind of funny.
>>97308626This is what happens when your sample size is exclusively critcrab videos and reddit stories.
>>97308751Are you retarded? Nogame fairytales fellate charisma harder than anyone ITT ever could.
>>97308746Cause nobody that starts a thread about charisma ever wants to actually discuss it. Just mald about it. Cause I would have originally agreed that tying every attempt at socializing to just one mental aspect is limited compared to the other options out there, but people like OP are such faggots that I want to oppose him on purpose.
I think OP failed the Twinkie test.
>>97308246"use weapon to hit good" takes skill, because there are a lot of decisions to make during a battle, you need to consider positioning and timing et ceterain battle throwing the dice merely introduces some random variance, which is as it should bewhereas a naive diplomacy check is all randomness, zero skill>>97308361>So is it useless or OP? Make up your mindI didn't state my opinion one way or the otherI just said that it makes for a poor gameplay
>>97308491No, if you think persuading the evil bad guys to stop being evil in a single skill check is what the skill is meant for, you're certifiably mental. At best, persuade a few members to come to your side and start some infighting in a combat encounter. Shit like what you're suggesting is what makes people on the opposite end of the spectrum think it's overpowered
>>97308771No game fairytales run the entire gamut of non-experience. It sounds like in op's case he's been mostly consuming nonsense of "bad gm won't let me mind control the bad guys with my heckin' epic persuade rolls!"
>>97308898>whereas a naive diplomacy check is all randomness, zero skillGenuinely don't know what games you've played, cause it's pretty simple in mine. Players choose to convey what words they would like to convince the other party of their sincerity in wishing to parley.Roll is to determine how well that comes out of the PC's mouth, with failure meaning that a miscommunication occurred such as the other party misunderstanding a particular word choice or from the PC flubbing the verbal delivery.I don't see what's so random about it.
>>97308294Prowlers has an equivalent and it doesn't happen in that game, so you're wrong and you lose.
>>97308898Same as arguing, you need to consider tone, the situation, the information you have or lack and your social position, all of those will determine boon or banes for the check.
>>97309061I don't know, have you asked OP if he plays Prowlers? He may have retarded opinion for that one as well
>>97308827Answer to twinkie test is always murder, the context-dependent variable is whether you can do it in broad daylight frontier justice style, or you have to wait for the offender in some back alley and do it quietly.
>>97308624Stop playing wrong or I'll kill you.
>>97309099You could do a charisma check to convince the thief to give back what he stole and leave the life of crime behind to adventure alongside you. You gain a new companion that way.
>>97309080He's never played anything.
Charisma is the worst stat because it has the second least amount of things attached to it and the things attached to it aren't really that important.A Diplomacy check or an Intimidate check is the important part of the social interaction game so buffing one of those is the generally better option than putting points into Charisma rather than any of the other stats which provide more tangible survival benefits.Of course this excludes classes which use Cha as an important class stat like for Casting.
>>97308068>t. got banned from every group after being heard for 5 minutes tops, the cope
>>97309169why does your game make you choose between being good at talking and being good at surviving?
>>97309126Sure could. But in that particular scenario I'd prefer to use it as an opportunity to set a precedent. We can always recruit some other orphan we find (or make) further along the way.
>>97309187Why does your game make you good at everything?
>>97309190Setting a precedent for a Twinkie is bad for your reputation, it makes you look easily triggered and fragile. You show your abilities as a charismatic leader instead and eventually you start your own cult and THEN you kill him for the sin of stealing from the Great Leader.
>>97309193It doesn't. Answer my question directly and in good faith. NOW.
>>97308068>warlocks>sorcerers>bards>paladinsall use charisma for their spell dc and attack. tf are you talking?
>>97309201It's not about setting precedent just for myself, but for all the adventurers. Including other characters I might later play in the same setting.Though you've given me the idea that suficiently persuasive character could guilt trip the thief into killing himself.
>>97309234>5e D&D is the only game
>>97309002>>97309072the difference is that both of you have basically implemented charisma mechanics by yourselfrules as written are almost always very simplistic and have very little depth or resemblance to actual diplomacya few systems do try to give it a little more crunch, but it's difficult because being convincing is hard to model mathematicallyso usually diplomacy is a meta-challenge of trying to convince the GM, for which charisma-the-real-life-skill is much more useful than charisma-the-stat
>>97309328Well, it comes to the subjectivity the game entails, like the challenge to open a locked door. It doesn't have lock so you have to invent a way to open it. By force, by magic, most things will depend on you convincing your GM it makes sense as a way to unlock or break the door. If the GM answer "No, that doesn't seem reasonable to me" then your plan wont work unless you argue well, same as charisma checks.
>>97309328Again, not really. Most DMs are content if you give them the intent of what you're trying to say rather than wordsmith yourself. People like OP will go "I roll to convince the cultists", and then have a meltdown when the DM goes "Okay, what do you say?", instead of going "Oh, I tell them their leaders have lying to them about the cult's goals all along, using this evidence I found to make it harder to dispute". You'd think that would be easy, but apparently not.
>>97309413>Most DMs are content if you give them the intent of what you're trying to say rather than wordsmith yourself.This is true.>People like OP will go "I roll to convince the cultists", and then have a meltdown when the DM goes "Okay, what do you say?", instead of going "Oh, I tell them their leaders have lying to them about the cult's goals all along, using this evidence I found to make it harder to dispute". Having run games for a fair while, I can confidently say a lot of people think about what end they want to see, but not the process of getting to that end; the reason being is because a lot of people want to turn their brains OFF during gaming, not engage them in unique ways compared to real life.
>>97308068are we talking about superhero dungeon crawler games?
>>97309234>charisma is good as long as you don't use anything that's actually part of it
>>97308068Charisma, Fellowship, etc are great when those attributes are also the main casting stat. You get high persuasion or whatever as a bonus.On its own though? Fucking useless I agree. Especially true if you’re playing with a GM who pretty much lets players just substitute social rolls with roleplaying. The inverse of that also comes up all the time, ITT even; you can never just roll charisma to try and talk someone down and you’ll always be asked to come up with some sound argument yourself.I played through the entire Enemy Within campaign and Fellowship skills that weren’t related to prayer were never a solution to anything, it always just came down to killing and sneaking our way through every encounter.
>>97308349CoC has like 5 different persuasion skills and not nearly enough points to spec in them all is why.
>>97309614It's a good thing they're all worthless then.
>>97309475I've run games a fair bit myself, and I don't usually have a problem in that area. Though I guess I might be different in that the times I do get a player who doesn't know what to say, they don't argue with me and actually asks for ideas instead. And I admit that I'm a bit soft in that I actually suggest something instead of leaving them hanging, if only because it gets the game moving again.>>97309623Still waiting to hear what your argument was that the DM denied, OP
>>97308349Aren't social skills in Cthulhu more about talking people into being less insane and trying to get clues and information out of third parties?
>>97309666Yes but in reality they will never yield any important information.
>>97309609I think people should talk at the table and make their expectations clear. I can see how some would argue that rolling on charisma-based skills should entitle them to expecting results, but consider that the same thing happening in a combat encounter (that is, you roll once, succeed, encounter is over) could be considered lame or anti-climatic, depending on the people involved. Unless your group wants to fast forward the action part, but then I suppose that you wouldn't have this charisma-based problem to begin with.So if you just want to roll diplomacy and resolve the encounter, you either have a convincing argument, ie a path that you take to achieve your objective through talking, or you need to roll and get more successes, like you would in combat, or both. Think about scenarios in video games where you can skip combat, it's rarely a single dialogue option that you take at the start and you're done, you have to put in some work.
>>97308624>What the fuck is it with so many fa/tg/uys apparently being utterly convinced that there are no differences between groups or GMs, that everything at every table must work exactly as it does in their table, and that everyone telling them otherwise must be lying?It's not us, it's every role player ever. And to answer your question, I have no fucking idea and I never did.
>>97309680Then your GM is terrible at making adventures.
>>97309732>hello mr cultist, could you tell us where your hideout is?>no>you better tell us or else!>no>
>>97309326its just an example, unless you can list a game where charisma is a stat is not used in any combat modification.
>>97309753Would that work on you?
>>97309818>the skills don't do anything and that's fine :)
>>97309853Answer the question, fat man
>>97309732Okay, then go ahead and list some pivotal social checks from one of CoC's many highly acclaimed modules.
>>97309868nta, but convincing the GM to run the game for a group of unwashed entitled fat nerds comes to mind
>>97308491>roll Stealth to try to hide in the middle of an empty field>GM says it doesn't work and the enemies notice me anywayWell I guess that means Stealth is a useless skill, because I used it at a bad time and it didn't work.
>>97309853>wtf i can't use athletics to jump to the moon!!!>therefore skills do nothing
>>97308068better charisma would have helped my feeblewilled rogue not go insane on several occasionsi never felt the need to ham it up or be dour because of the score, though
>>97308246How would you feel, if I made a character who was a veteran tactician, his backstory involves him being instrumental to a skirmish that will go down in history as one of the biggest examples of David vs Goliath, and I have the stats, skills, feats, and background to back it up...And I said, to your face, at the start of a battle..."I roll to automatically resolve the battle, because I use my expert tactical knowledge to get through it with minimal losses"?
>>97310081I would ask you if we're playing a high level game in that case, because otherwise I have no idea how your character did all that shit and got such high stats. And if we were plying a high level game I would tell you that the other side has a master tactician to your level, so the battle becomes instead a puzzle to solve.
Doesn't 5e have a fucking dedicated splat (even if thrird part) for more in-depth charisma mecanics like picrel? I need a set of ready to go answers to throw at 5efags every time they start bitching since hytnpd&d apparently isn't an acceptable answer.
>>97308068You may legitimately just be low IQ
>>97308068Heavily depends on the game.Old D&D Charisma only really came into play when hiring mercenaries and convincing them not to abandon your ass if shit went sideways. So it was absolutely important as mercs made up half your group if not more.In Genesys games, your Charisma like stat was what you used to determine what you could buy in any given area you went to, information gathering, opposed rolls to get groups to your side, and all kinds of pretty important out of combat shit.It's kind of a dumb stat in modern D&D and it's derivatives though.
>>97309868No role playing system has ever had good pre-written adventures. Not one, not ever.
>>97308349>I can't talk fanatics out of being fanaticsJesus Christ, man.You use charisma to tap underground contacts to find illicit goods.You use charisma to get the local nun to tell you about a parishioner acting shady.You use charisma to convince the random highwayman you don't have shit worth taking or the fight to get what you do have won't be worth it.You use charisma to talk the idiot kobolds into cleaning your house for cookies that are shaped like dragons.
>>97310272I imagine that OP is a retard who would never think to consider these much more sensible scenarios and instead is angry over a scenario that didn't happen.
>>97309326Yeah.
>>97309372No, none of those methods of opening a door rely on convincing the GM.
>>97309475Don't sign up to play if you aren't interested in playing. Playing is thinking.
>>97309609>casting statyikes.
>>97309786Prowlers and Paragons. Charm can be used in certain combat stunts, but it is not in and of itself required to be good at any sort of combat.
>>97310272>storyshitting trash
>>97310448>You're not allowed to interact with the world
>>97308068In my experience, it's STR and INT that are useless dogshit, but only in D&D, and only 5E. Anything that STR can do, DEX can do better. INT does fucking nothing because there are no rules for using any of the INT skills. Charisma at least lets you mind control people. Yeah, I know CHA isn't supposed to be mind control. But that's how every DM treats it.
>>97310872Strength is marginally better if you do a lot of shoves, grapples and count carry weight. but encumbrance is so high that it's very marginally an improvement. and pretty soon grabbing and shoving people becomes useless when you could just hit them with our fucking awesome +3 sword
>>97310429is op talking about prowlers and paragons?
>>97311148OP's not talking about anything. Just another troll here to just farm updoots dragging out an old argument over the point of charisma stats and social skills in rpgs.
>>97308193Does the GM entirely base results off charisma? If not than charisma isn't necessary when you're actually charismatic.
>>97310523Yeah.
>>97310872actual retard kek
>>97311148did you read the post I was replying to?
>>97308377I wanna gonna say that "Yes, in 3.5E that is something you can literally do, RAW." But >>97308455 beat me to it.
>>97310245>>97309877>not a single exampleBig surprise.Now, any other excuses for charisma being rancid dog shit?
>>97310272>>I can't talk fanatics out of being fanatics>I can't convince people when they just don't feel like being convincedGreat skill you have there.
>confront a cultist>you can kill him with combat skills>you can sneak past him with stealth skills>you can blow him up with an IED you crafted>but you cannot enact any meaningful changes to him with social skills because ummm it goes against his religion, alright?
>>97312972Skill issue, OP :)
>>97313040Funny how you whine about it not being possible all thread but don't showcase what's actually said to change the fanatic's mind. Almost as if your strawman didn't go that far.
>>97313057Interesting how I don't need to "showcase" anything in the other examples, it just works, but you need to present an entire dissertation on using charisma.
>>97313063You kind of do if you want people to believe your act, troll, cause everyone else seems to understand how charisma works in these games but you
>>97308232>you "solve" the problem by rolling a die and comparing it to a number>it requires no thought or skill from the playerThis is exactly why I don't allow charisma rolls or any social rolls in my game. You have to actually roleplay it out and if you do a poor job, you fail."B-but my character sheet says I have expertise in persuasion and a +5 Charisma-" Shut up faggot, maybe learn how to play the role you wanted LMAO
>>97308898>"use weapon to hit good" takes skill, because there are a lot of decisions to make during a battleIn 5e? Hell no it's dead simple. If your turn takes longer than 30 seconds in 5e, you're a subhuman.
>>97308068>Besides, it's not that good in real life either. Actors and performers were considered on the same level as prostitutes in status for most of history.It is pretty interesting how people continue to put charisma on a pedestal despite this being the case, as though it's some kind of indispensable quality for a leader to have even though the claim has very blatantly never held any water.
>>97313040Charisma things you can do to the cultist:>Decieve him into thinking you are also a cultist to get by.>Intimidate him into not reporting your presence with threats.>Diplomacy to get him to consider you friendly, note this doesn't make him not evil or a cultist he just thinks you personally are a cool dude.>Seduction to lower his guard for stabbing or "stabbing".>Distraction to create an opening for your allies to dogpile him>Blather to keep his attention on you while something else is going onOh also charisma is THE spellcasting stat in 5e. 8 out of the 11 spellcasting classes use it as its primary stat, so there you go, its probably the only stat that competes with DEX for importance in modern dnd.
>>97308068>How to stop CHAds from turning my dungeon-crawl into an episode of MLP:FIMGive situational maluses for CHA rolls; factor things like different species, especially when bridging the monster/humanoid gap, and of course, initial disposition; it's far harder to get everybody to start talking and put their swords down mid-fight.And some enemies have a predisposition to want you dead that's basically non-negotiable.Just because an opponent is sentient doesn't mean they care to listen or entreat.Hell, just to get the fighting to stop long enough to start engaging in diplomacy, I'd have a player roll a hard CHA test; straight CHA, no skills, with all applicable maluses.And if you roll a one trying to negotiate, you're going to cede an attack of opportunity if you were dumb enough to let them come close.
>>97313040Yeah.
>>97313063Things are context dependent in games you know, if I say "I take his weapon and hit him with it" it wont have the same effect if it's a weapon I know how to use than if it's a weapon I don't, same with arguments, they depend on the context they're made in and the information you currently have.
>>97316014Nah.
>>97317297No, he's right. And if he's not, feel free to explain otherwise, cause if you don't then he's right.
>>97313615Awesome, you do that for every other check too right? If I'm not hearing at least 3 official fencing terms in your attack emotes you're getting disadvantage.
>>97314921Except in a real game none of those things would work and you'd just get instantly shot on sight.
>>97308294Factually untrue. Digimon Digital Adventures has Charisma as the strongest stat in 1.4, and one of the strongest in 2e.In both, it serves as a means to give your Digimon Partner extra D6s on their Attack or Dodge Pools during your turn (up to a +9 which is functionally an average of +3 successes), in 1.4 having 7 Charisma gives your digimon an aura that gives all allies +2 to attack pools and the digimon +1 to Dodge Pools per ally over 0 HP in the aura, and it unlocks skill-related abilities like removing the -2 you have to giving this bonus to other allied Digimon you'd normally have.In 2E, it offers a few spell-like effects such as being able to temporarily end combat to parley or coax someone to do something you want that isn't detrimental to them, and the ability to hand out free temporary inspiration for the party (re-roll points) per session, among other abilities.Also, even in D&D it's a solid ability to have and invest into the skills of, because wow it's a dice game, you have to roll dice to do things when the outcome of something is in question, so no, you can't just stutter off some half-assed bullshit and auto-succeed. >>97308898>because there are a lot of decisions to make during a battleNot really, you hit the enemy until they die.>you need to consider positioning and timing et ceteraYou really don't.>in battle throwing the dice merely introduces some random variance, which is as it should beIt's because the outcome of combat is always in question.
>>97317455Factually untrue. You reek of nogames.>Decieve him into thinking you are also a cultist to get by.That's either a Deception/deceive or Perform check to play the role of a cultist using a disguise.>Intimidate him into not reporting your presence with threats.Entirely doable, if you're big and scary enough.>Diplomacy to get him to consider you friendly, note this doesn't make him not evil or a cultist he just thinks you personally are a cool dude.Less likely.>Seduction to lower his guard for stabbing or "stabbing".Depends on the cultist but possible.>Distraction to create an opening for your allies to dogpile himDepends on how it's done but possible. A Classic way to get past a guard.>Blather to keep his attention on you while something else is going onRisky, but possible.>Oh also charisma is THE spellcasting stat in 5e.This is also true. Paladins (the best martials bar none), Bards (the best utility/support casters), and Sorcerers (some of the best damage dealers in the game) all use Charisma. I don't know where they're getting 8 out of 11 though - the only Charisma casters in 5e are Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, and Warlock. The others uses Wisdom or Intelligence.
>>97317698Nope, the cultist sees you and starts screaming and blasting, also alerting the other cultists.Talking never solves anything in TTRPGs.
>>97317706Only if you've never actually played ttrpgs and just spend time complaining about them on 4chan is that ever applicable.
>>97317455As a Charisma enjoyer, things I've done in actual play (off the top of my head):>Convinced guards that I was an innocent bystander to a robbery the party committed.>Hidden actual intentions for entering enemy territory.>Intimidated hostiles into running away, twice>Pretended to be part of the hostile organization after stealing clothes.>Persuaded villagers to let us keep a reward that they claimed their chief had no right to give.>Deceived to hide backstory details to prevent said villagers from getting more hostile.You may not be able to talk down cultists, but there are plenty of ways to talk around going straight into battle.You can also add the Charisma checks from BG3 to the list of examples.
>>97317880Funny how literally none of that sounds important.
>>97317885>intimidating the enemies to avoid an encounter and save resources>"welp, that sure doesn't sound important"
>>97317940If it's a fightslop game like D&D then it doesn't matter that you wriggled out of having to fight some filler battle against inconsequential shitters. The actual tough fights are unavoidable.
>>97317940You're replying to an obvious troll.
>>97317957Like you have any actual experience with games to know what fights are tough or unavoidable, liar
>>97317968Keep clinging to that cope but my experience is many times more extensive than yours.
>>97317974Liar
>>97308068>Besides, it's not that good in real life either.>Appearance is literally a higher marker for job hiring than actual qualifying trainingYou need to touch grass anon.
>>97308068>Uses combat or magic die rolls to win encounter.>"WELL DONE DUDE!">Uses a particular skill stat (that the DM lacks in real life) die rolls to win the encounter.>"I HATE THIS!"
>>97320652Trannies are attractive now? lol
>>97317313Nah.
