Unpopular opinion on /tg/ but 40ks immense success the last few years is the market proving that in fact, no, GW does not need to go back, and is actually approaching perfection in terms of what the actual audience wants.
2006
>>97317380because its not true. 40ks success has nothing to do with the rules but marketing and covid.
>>97317329>weYou can go back anytime you likeAnyone can play any edition they wishWhat use is there in concerning yourself with what edition obese manchild compfags choose to play
>>97317380Not the same audience, dipshit. Just as they drove off anyone at the company with talent and a real connection to the past, they did the same with their customer base. The retard NPCs who love Nuhammer are and unholy alliance of the absolutely most degenerate tourneyshitters imaginable with the "hobbytok" types who's primary concern is buying stuff to do "haul" videos about.That said, >>97317486 is bang on. Stop whinging and start contributing: >>97278656
>>97317329I have no idea how this 40k game stuff works, I only have the Daemon Codex and Necron Codex because I like setting stuff, but can't you already "go back"? You just don't get any new stuff, you just play with the old stuff.
Question. Why is it easier to find games of old WHF editions like 6e or 8e, but almost impossible to find people who play 3e 40k? Seeing as there are and have always been far more people playing 40k you would think statistically that communities for old 40k exist but in my experience they're non existent. Finding games of WHF 6e is easy and I'm thankful for that. But goddamn it I want to play a 3e Witch Hunters army.
>>97321576I am in the same boat and I feel its mainly trying to get access to the rules for everyone.
>>97321576Using artillery to snipe characters and no Eternal Warrior (besides Chaos 3.5) drains some of the thematics out of the game.If your character couldn't get T5, usually with a bike, they were dead.
>>97321576I think temporarily killing off Fantasy meant that players retreated to the previous editions they liked best. 40k has never really undergone that process.
>>97317380>oldhammer the models are bright and the lore is dark>nuhammer the models are dark and the lore is brightIdk if any game has ever been perfect but I like the old stuff. People talk about innovation but the people writing this stuff read books, now the people writing this stuff read Warhammer books.
>>97321630Good. Herohammer is for senile cretins and children. Your characters are leaders, not invincible demigods, and when faggots like you get their tastes catered to the result is modern 40K. Also stop playing with rancid tourneyshitting cheesebeards.>>97321576I suspect it's simply that there weren't really any alternatives to WHFB for the long years it sucked(7th & 8th) or was dead - if you wanted rank and flank that wasn't hyper-obsessive niche historicals - most of which had more in common mechanically with Warmaster ie they were "command and control" games rather than combat simulators - you played WHFB, so sticking with the good version of WHFB just became the default. 40K, being bigger in the first place, both died more slowly(we can look back now and say the rot began with 5th, but at the time they boiled the frog quite successfully and usually only a modest percentage of the community ducked out with each edition, there wasn't anything like the mass exodus during WHFB 7th in 40K until they did Gathering Storm/8th) meaning many of the people who left just left the hobby entirely, and was big enough to spawn commercial alternatives that scratched the same itch; you'll find a lot of old 3rd/4th Edfags playing Bolt Action for example.40K's older editions had to lie fallow long enough for nostalgia to kick in, that's why you're seeing stuff like the 4th SRD project(nobody really plays 3rd because 4th is basically 3rd 2.0) I linked above now.
>>97321677>Good.Nah, fuck you. I'm taking a Chaplain on a bike. Everyone is.
>>97321677>Herohammer is for senile cretins and children. Your characters are leaders, not invincible demigodsYou need to read history.Oldhammer is more realistic.The figure count is more realistic too hehe
>>97321677>>97321706>oldhammer had the most power leaders in the history of the game>they didn't need to be 'named characters' to have ws7 A7 W7You faggots do not mean 'real 40k', you mean some bastardization of 3.5e and 4e. Peak nostalgia faggotry/
>>97321739I don't understand why you are talking about homosexuality but I'm not interested. I personally like 2nd and 4th with 40k and 4th and 5th with WHFB.
>>97317486Although true, it's significantly harder to get fellow players to play an old edition (except for fellow grogs) and it's very retarded to act like that's not the case.
>>97321704Fuck you. My Chaplain is a footslogger along with his Csquad with a paper banner- the MANLY choice
>>97317380GW is an awful company so what.
>>97321858Find a player group or make one that does.
>>97322493I don't have a dog in this. I have a group that plays old editions, mordheim, and indie games.But I know all too well that's not common. The bulk of wargame players don't want to play old, unsupported editions for a bevy of reasons."Find a group or make one" is still true and correct, but I'm really empathetic to people who don't have that as an option.
>>97317380gw's success is a result of the boom of normies using the internet. now people actually know warhammer exists.
>>97317329>we have to go back
>>97321739I started in 2nd, that's *why* I hate it, I have actual experience of playing it at the time. If I was going to be nostalgic for anything it would be the version I sarted with, dumbass. Late 3rd/first half of 4th is, objectively, the best 40K has ever been. It's not opinion, it's not nostalgia, by every measure it was worse before and worse since. If you disagree, you're wrong and, frankly, retarded. Your opinion is not valid, your arguments are not cogent - you can say you *prefer* other versions, but much in the same way some people prefer to subsist on a diet of curried beans and cowshit that preference says far more about you than it does 40K.
>>97317329If you're not gonna keep to your general, at least have the decency to title your shit right. Filter evading faggot.
>>97321576Fantasy being effectively and replaced with the backhand insult that was AOS (maybe its good now idk, but at the time it was woeful shit) made it so grogs had to play older editions. That being said if you live in a big enough city you will be able to find an older 40k edition group. You'll have to do some legwork and you certainly won't find them playing at GW. >>97321677>Hero hammer is for cretin and retards.100% true and based take. Marine chuds will never know the fun of having your guard command squad die in humorous fashion EVERY single game.
>>97324523Based. I'm a newfag who only started getting into Warhammer around the middle of 7th but I have come to realize over the years all the stuff I liked was introduced in 3rd and 4th and all the shit I hate started with HH and the 5th edition lore retcons
>>97324523This is the only truth.
>>97321677>rot began with 5thWhat were the differences between 4th and 5th again? Were the "true LOS" and wound allocation trickery in 5E?On the fluff side, I remember GK having some pretty obnoxious shit in that new book
>>97324992True LOS and wound allocation was 5th. Also many changes that made the game worse. Universal sprint, going to ground, unified vehicle table, all templates scattering... Also additional issues, like the creative death of White dwarf, the new codex format that started in mid 4th, extreme powercreep, unit creep (at least for tyranids) finecast, all the pictures of models started having every single centimeter filled with models the shift is incredible any picture has like 2 2500p armies in a tiny part of the table. At least the art was still good, that went out of the window in 6th.
>>97324571>fag who took it upon themselves to police the board without learning about the website culture is also an autistic filter userunsurprisedhave a bump on me
>>97321630>If your character couldn't get T5, usually with a bike, they were dead.I'm pretty sure bikes don't count for ID. i know demonic resilience doesn't.>>97321576>6ehonestly i mostly know people playing 2e, and 4e, generally it's someone's starting edition.that said objectively speaking CSM 3.5e was the best codex they made for chaos.PERIOD.
>>97324992>What were the differences between 4th and 5th again?Matt Ward and serious codex creep in addition to >>97325050here's a list of dexes,IG 5e, fucking cracked, i think they made hellguns ap 3 this edition too.NewcronsGrey knightsand Space wolves.>>97325050I'd say it's 4e, see Gay throb and how the dexs lost flavour during late 4e early 5e.
>>97317380I bet you think that Mcdonalds is the best burger chain.And Marvel is the best movie franchise.
>>97321630confirmed it from chapter approved.ID applies against unmodified toughness.I thought because in my Codex it explicitly says DR doesn't affect it but not with the bike.as always, a nurgle biker is a 4(5)t model that will go down to a krak missile.
Space Marine 2 was the worst thing to happen to 40k.
>>97325050Was the 5th edition Dark Eldar codex one of the overpowered ones? I personally love it, it's my favourite army book across both Fantasy and 40k and I've been collecting my deldar army using its rules as a guideline, but I haven't been able to find anyone to play 5th with and I have no idea if the rules are broken. They're so cool though.
>>97325240You are missing nids and Deldar, the nid one made the carnifex useles and splited his role in 2 or 3 other monsters, characters were cool but the cool upgrades were gone. It was the trigon era. Nids doubled their unit profiles and it wasn't great for the game, also underpowered compared to the rest of 5th.. The other codex books in that style from 4th are Dark angels (sucks, overnerfed marines, terminators are useless, no lass plas, drop pod nerf was ok) eldars (most powerful of 4th, harlequins should be removed of the game), orks (strong, less flavor) Demons, caos marines. >>97326780Not sure 100% our d eldar player said that it was too strong but I have not played against it or read the dex, I can tell you that the 3,5 Deldar dex is way more decent than people thinks, you can do crazy stuff with that book. Also for variety after many many many games I sometimes include one or two profiles from 5th nids to spice things up maybe you can do the same with Deldar, or adjust the profiles. Believe me, don't bother with 5th, 4th is just better. Also imperial armour lists and campaigns are super cool, 40k at its best. The taros campaign is extremely thematic I enjoyed it a lot.
>>97325216Arguably the 4th ed nid codex is the best nid codex, same for marines, same for tau + imperial armour 3 taros. 3.5 guard was the most thematic too with regimental rules. 3.5 orks were the most thematic they will ever be, but a bit underpowered. 3.5 necrons didn't had all the egyptian crap just yet, but they needed a couple more troop profiles for variety. Imperial armours updated lost and damned list was also great.
>>97317329GW needs to release a 40k classic. Base it on 3rd to 4th edition rules tweaked SLIGHTLY. I know HH exists but I don't care about marines vs marines. I want a proper return to 4th edition soul. Let the zoomers enjoy the slop of 10th edition while we play in the paradise of 4th.
>>97327574Or you could just play 4th.
>>97327723then he couldn't consoom
>>97327723Nah, he needs GW to both sell the idea to his local playerbase and to fuck with it a bit so he has something to blame when the magic from his childhood fails to return.
>>97327723Let me go to the 4th tree and pluck a playgroup for myself
>>97325050>the creative death of White dwarfDamn, I forgot this completely. I always associate it with WHFB 6E being the one with great stuff in WD, and 7E didn't have anything beside 'tactica' or some shit. Naturally, it affected 40K as well.
>>97327574lmao. GW has to SELL you shit in order for you to enjoy it? Now I see where those consoomer wojak memes came from, you are one.
>>97317329>WeDo it cunt.The retro thread is always available.I've played more 2nd ed in 2026 than I've played 9th and 10th ed combined.I played more 3rd ed last year than I've played 8th, 9th or 10th ever.
>>97326780In 5th its fine, its mid by the end of the edition and it was good but not op on launch.Its notable for the scale of the range change for an army that had been the plastic xenos poster boys of 3rd edition.The stylistic difference between them is insane.
>>97317329How do we?! I am ready!
>>97324889>maybe its good now idk, but at the time it was woeful shitIt's up to the same "quality" level now as 40k overall so it's almost playable....but they kept the random turn order rule out of stubbornness, so it's never been truly workable without house rules to take that out at best.
Chuddy grogs who just play 40k are so annoying you don’t even attempt to play anything else as you’ll just play an old version of 40k
>>97329190Large model collection.Liking things.
>>973275719th ed tyranid codex is thematically the best they've ever gotten. 4th ed has the nice "build-your-own-fex" rules but apart from Carnifexes being absurdly customizable it doesn't have all that much going for it and it has cripplingly few actual units, even if the ones it has can often (but not always, Zoanthropes and lictors, for example) be quite upgradeable. The 9th ed codex has extensive rules for both specializing and boosting the monsters in it but also for making your own hivefleets and battlefield adaptations, and incredbly fluffy synapse rules that reward you for building an actual web of synapse creatures, as welll as your opponents for tearing apart that web.It also has the excellent crusade rules, for long-form narrative campaign play about eating planets, something completely lacking in the 4th ed codex.The only actual downside of the 9th ed codex is that it was absurdly broken and overpowered. But it was definitely fluffy.
>>97321858I just make my kids play 4e. If we buy new models we just write new rules. So the meta is having children and indoctrinating them
