>paid GMing>AI slop>unironic "badwrongfun"/"you can't play that way" shitThe unholy trinity of what's killing ttrpgs.
I'm not against people getting paid to run. I'd never pay to play, but filling a need is viable. I agree with the other two, however. Also, while I am my groups forever GM, I'd never consider running a pay for play game because every time you try to turn a hobby into a job, it becomes work instead of fun.
culture is dead as a concept, damn shame too
Paid GM-ing works as long as you're at liberty of choosing your clients.If you have to suffer bad players and/or bad system because that's what in the order, you just turned a hobby into a shitty side gig. At that point, you're better off getting an actual side gig for actual money instead of poisoning your hobby.
>>97326678Itll come back after either the apocalypse or we have humans living on other planets.
>>97326491paid games tend to have players that actually show up on time and take the game seriously althougheverbeit
>>97326868I get that by playing with my friends
>>97326868Sounds like a you problem. My players love my game.
'Paid' dnd and then AI slop (and dms that use AI slop to cut on their costs) and finally whenever someone starts selling AI 'DM bot' modules trained specifically for this purpose are the end result of deindustrialization stripping people of gainful work and encouraging the mentality of everything as a service with AI being the finality that removes the simple human aspect. This coming as people have fewer friends, less time and due to the ADHD nature of games like WoW have created a demand for convenience from the lowest common denominator (math sucks yo).People are losers with no friends and no one has a 'career' in anything normal like tech writer or shoe maker so they sell friendship as a service instead
good DMs put so much time into curating game that it does feel pretty criminal sometimes, and in theory, they should be able to get compensated for all that value they add. like sure it's what they love doing, but some shitters take it for absolute granted. you don't have to pay but snacks drinks etc could all be provided by players as a soft entry fee, for a fraction of the cost of time that the DM puts in (for good campaigns at least) and even that's being extremely generousif you are DM *AND* hosting it should be mandatory that people pay you
>>97326491>killing ttrpgsIts killing the unfit. Strong groups will survive and proliferate
>>97326564Incredibly based and correct.
>>97326564>I'm not against people getting paid to run. I'd never pay to play, but filling a need is viable.Nah, fuck paid DMing. If it becomes widespread it'll be toxic to the community as a whole.
"side hustle" culture is the most unbelievably limp-dicked shit on earthpeople who turn every waking moment into a race to collect money are drooling slaves and spiritually poor
>>97327217>the communityUnironically, what community?
>>97326491Having a social interaction with a group of people that I understand how to navigate it payment enough.
>>97326909>AI slop (and dms that use AI slop to cut on their costs)what costs lolwould you actually leave a game if the DM showed an NPC picture and it was AI, because this mindset is autistic to me. I agree that it's shit for writing a story or designing a dungeon though
>>97327521I'm not paying for slop.
>>97327521I absolutely have considered leaving games when a GM used AI images.When he started asking the AI for answers to my lore questions, I basically checked out entirely, and would leave if it wasn't for friends who are somehow invested in the game.
>>97327550>he pays to be part of gameswell you've already lost>>97327554>I absolutely have considered leaving games when a GM used AI images.literally why? A GM should not be forced to settle for an image that meets only some of the most important qualities to an NPC that they want, which is what happens in reality fairly often when you are resorting to trawling other sites for character art after you've come up with the NPC. Every GM reading this can relate to what I've just described>When he started asking the AI for answers to my lore questionsThat's a fair reason admittedly
>>97327580>>I absolutely have considered leaving games when a GM used AI images.>literally why?Slippery slope, going by what that anon said.
>>97327580>literally whyBecause AI use makes you actively more stupid, and near universally produces low quality output.It's also sickening to the majority of moral frameworks, whether due to its terrible utility or its shambling mockery of life.
>>97326678It really is capitalism's fault.
>>97327585Well if he had a bad experience afterwards and that's tainted his opinion of it, so be it. I'm curious why that was his gut reaction though. I don't get it.>>97327589Okay. The studies you're attempting to quote don't actually say that, but I understand the thought process better. And of course, moralfagging always surfaces. Thank you for your honesty.
>>97326491The only way I'd consider "getting paid" to GM a game is if my players bought the software or books to play said game, running games is a hobby and I'd never taint it by trying to make money from it.
>>97327604>B-but the studiesNo, I'm just going off how the people around me who HAVE started using AI have become hollow shells of their past selves, and how every single AI supporter like yourself seems to be some mix of evil and retarded.
>>97327607Upon thought, I have to wonder what kind of psycho can't see why someone might not like an idiot machine that produces terrible quality products en masse
>>97327580>Every GM reading this can relate to what I've just describedNo, not really. I rarely use character art at all, and i can just draw it if i have to. Besides, gming is a form of creative self expression. Using AI as part of that is like putting tomato sauce on a steak, its antithetical
>>97327674>>97327580I just draw shitty mspaintoids over images I find that are vaguely close, and I'd take that a thousand times over AI nonsense.It's both less work AND shows you put more thought in.
>>97327580>Every GM reading this can relate to what I've just describedI've been running games for a decade and a half, and I can't relate to what you've said in the slightest. I frankly don't understand some people's obsession with having art for NPCs--do you print it out and pass it around at the table? Seems like an unnecessary amount of paper when you can just describe the character properly in the first place.
>>97327731I have a laptop soooo
>>97327731It's universally for tokens, so really you just want something on theme and identifiable from a distance, with a GREAT emphasis on that second part.
>>97327706Based, i love shitty personal art
>>97326491>the myth of a consensual paid service>is there someone you forgot to askfuck off communist faggot
How does it kill anything though?Please elaborate on that.
>>97326491Not a problem at my table with my friends. No, I don't care about "the hobby."
>>97327746>tokens>not using shitty old minis that nobody actually remembers buying or otherwise acquiring>not having players with dibs on specific minis because they’re the ones they always use, regardless of what their character looks like>not building ambiance and tension with your descriptions to buy time to fish around in the bin for something that’s passable for what you need to represent>not being able to look past the dubious paint work and eclectic figure selection with your mind’s eyeSometimes, I worry about the current generation’s capacity for imagination.
>>97326491I can just run a game and not do any of that shit though?
>>97326868Get better friends.
>>97327580>Every GM reading this can relate to what I've just describedNo, I really don't.
>>97326491Paid GMing will be the death of this hobby. That and the introduction of AI. How long until Hasbro sets up a model for Dungeons and Dragons games that has you pay by the hour? You know normies will jump on board because they're all lazy sacks of shit, and they'll never move away from it because they'll never be forced to learn to GM.
>>97327580>Every GM reading this can relate to what I've just describedNo, I describe NPCs with words instead of needing pictures because I run games for people who have read books before.
>>97327731damn, a time traveller from the 70s, haven't seen one of you in a while
>>97326491>unironic "badwrongfun"/"you can't play that way" shitMaybe learn how to play the game by the book instead of jerking yourself off
>>97329578okay i did, now what?
>>97327550You're desperate enough to need to pay a dungeon master to run a game for you because people don't like you enough to do it for free in real life.. Now sit down and be grateful for your slo
>>97327554So it had nothing to do with the images and everything with him being lazy? Sounds like a bad DM and a bad player, has nothing to do with AI though
>>97329583Lmao The refuge of people who can't play the game correctly and refuse to try."Mr Gary said I don't have to play by the rules if I don't want to, we can just play Calvinball and dragons, teehee!"Lol learn to play the game by the book and people will stop complaining that you are playing the game wrong.
>>97329603>calvinballtheres a reference that will go over everyone’s heads
>>97326491>What other tables does affects me WAAAAH!RPG groups have always been wildly different from one table to the next. Honestly? Setting some standards and expectations through an industry norm wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It also wouldn't change your table except that people would come to it w/ preconceptions about how a table "should" function. Which is probably helpful for everyone involved, because having that framework in mind makes it easier to identify when you're deviating from it, understand the impact of doing so, and have a discussion about the best path forward.AI doesn't harm anything at all. Use it if you wanna. Don't if you don't. Absolutely zero impact on anyone who decides not to use it.The self-appointed arbiters of "badwrongfun" have always existed. It's why you know that term. It's been an ongoing discussion in TTRPGs since literally the 70s.
>>97329667It's my go-to for whenever I get ready to sit down for D&D and the DM tells me "so we're playing D&D but we're using a heavily modified version that only I have all of the house rules for and they're all in my head, and I will arbitrarily change them at will and whim to suit my purposes."It's worse than fucking mahjong.
>>97329679>What other tables does affects meFirst off, you're ESL. Secondly, yes that is how society works. Are you not familiar with how cultures can shift, and how that affects the members of said culture?
>>97329686Name one harm caused to you by someone else's table being different from yours.One. Name it. Give us a demonstration.Everyone will wait while you disappear and never respond because it's absolutely impossible for you to come up with a single example.
>>97329682You don't actually play anything you retarded faggot, houseruling has always been a part of the game.
>>97329682You’d think people would learn not to use dnd for everything.
>>97329692Sure, I had a 3.5 game running at my house and one of my neighbors a few blocks over also had a game, and our players overlapped. Very frequently players who were at his table would adopt some very bad habits but socially and in the game. For example he never made them clean up, so they started leaving messes at my house which they had never done before. They would also get used to him frequently not using the rules and just hand waving everything while maintaining the illusion just by using 3.5 char sheets. The players would get used to these rules/rulings and would try to use them at my table. For instance he would let them do a full attack after a move action even at first level, and when I told them that wasn't allowed, they threw a fit about how he lets them at his table.Now, before you move the goal posts, would you like me to supply some more? Because I have plenty of other examples, this was just my immediate thoughts.
>>97329699I've been playing tabletop for over 20 years and by mass, except for my vehicle, my largest amount of possessions is game books. House ruling has always been a part of the game, but it is for filling in details and cracks, not for creating an entirely new house. >>97329702I hate it so much, and what's crazy is that during the 3.5 era, there was source books for literally everything, and yet it still felt more useful compared to how everybody tries to use 5e to run every type of RPG imaginable, despite it being a bad system per se
>>97329708And? And what, if his table wasn't different from yours, then new players wouldn't have their own behaviors and preconceptions?Of course they would Try again.
>>97329708>full attack after a move action even at first level1st characters only get one attack nogames
>>97329708You're not mad about other tables being different and it causes you no harm. You're mad that other people aren't the same person as you. And you're too low-IQ to understand that, no matter what, other individuals are always going to be different from you, and behave differently than you want them to.That has nothing to do with other tables being different. It has to do with your low IQ.
>>97329727>And?You fucking asked dude. And yes, the players adopting behavior that it's okay to make messes and other people's houses without cleaning up, and adopting the behavior that they don't actually have to play the game by the rules, is absolutely malign.It would be completely different if they understood that there was a clear-cut line, (something that I explained clearly), but they learned how to play the game wrong, and insisted that other tables had to do it the same way. If you can't see a problem with this, then I don't see how the conversation can continue.
>>97329708Those players were just shitty people, it isn't the other table's fault that they chose to act that way.
>>97329735Shower dodger mentality
>>97329735Lmao nice armchair psychology there bud, I told you what I'm mad about, and it's players learning shitty social and game habits from DMs who don't have a very high standard of respect for themselves or the game. You sound like one of those slovenly "rules-lights" players that everyone dreads being around at the game store.
>>97329746Except they didn't do that shit at my house until they started playing at his table, and started losing comprehension of both social niceties and how to play the game.
>>97329735Yeah, of course people are different fucktard. Yet social norms such as not leaving your food on someone's floor still exist regardless of personal difference. Playing a game by the rules as laid out beforehand, is another social norm. Getting upset and demanding that one referee stops playing by the rules because another has, breaks that social norm.
>>97329595Using AI is inherently a blemish on your character.If it becomes known, it is only right and proper people reject you.Similarly, you, an AI proponent, attempt to remove any blame from the AI having fucking terrible results.AI use and AI preference is a huge marker for having absolutely no taste and being a philosophical zombie.
>>97326491>be goalie on soccer or hockey>i have to put extra work on the hobby, I take greater responsability than the team, I have to prep differently than the team, and without me you'll instantly loseTell me anons, why shouldn't I charge for goalie positions in any sport?
>>97329776>sports analogylol
>>97329767That would mean more if it wasn’t coming from a neckbeard fake-grogging on 4chins.
>>97329767Lol the amount of autistic seething. You do know that not everybody holds the same opinions as you? You might want to consider that next time you decide that you speak for all of society all of society
>>97329759Doesn't change anything, normal people aren't going to do that.
>>97329767At no point in that post did I ever say that I was a proponent of ai, I said that both the player and the DM were of low quality and that the problem existed regardless. Interesting to see people like you who are this defensive however
>>97329832>People don't have bad habit >People learn bad habit from other group >People bring bad habit back to original group Really fucking simple line of social psychology.You seem to be fundamentally retarded and not grasping the conversation. Don't reply to me anymore.
>>97329708>For example he never made them clean up, so they started leaving messes at my house which they had never done before.If this happened more than once it's a problem with you being spineless thoughbeit
>>97329872You don't want me to reply to you anymore because you don't want to confront the reality that you're being a retard. These people were adults, they were in control of their own actions.
>>97329585I'm not paying for slop.
>>97326491I expect people to chip in for snacks and equipment when I DM and its never been an issue
>there are actually people paying to play on /tg/ right now
>>97326491I hate how all the dirtbags transitioned from dealing drugs to making youtube videos now
>>97329785>>97329823>>97329868man, the shills REALLY hate that I pointed out how awful people they are.>I'm not a shill, I'm simply defending this technology in a dishonest manner!obvious shill.
>>97331541>>97326894It tells you more about the social state of the hobby if people would rather pay to gatekeep certain personality types out of their games, whom also tend to be the most vocal against paid games.
>>97334443>the problem is me and my group of 12 years that has played nearly half a dozen systems togetherLOL
>>97334443It sounds more like a bunch of people who are rejects from normal games paying a prostitute.You know, the people too godawful for everyone to stand.
>>97329595AI use promotes laziness. That's not pearl-clutching or doomsaying, it's a demonstrated phenomenon. So, if you think that laziness is a problem, AI use is also a problem. Without ascribing moral weight to the question, I'll compare it to alcohol: you can have a drink once in a while and it won't be a problem, we could even have wine at a session if the party's at some kind of fancy event, but overuse is going to impair your capabilities and result in a significantly worse experience for everyone else. And the further down that path you go, the more dependent on it you're going to be and the harder it's going to be to get to where you should have been going.>>97334443They're paying because they're the ones being gatekept by normal groups.
>>97334468>>97334470>unironically
>>97334546>posts wojacksThe smell must be terrible
>>97334546>the people laughing at me can't possibly have games
What's the issue with paid GMs? Please explain
>>97326491you "pay" by taking turns dm'ing
>>97334538>They're paying because they're the ones being gatekept by normal groups.You do realize that DM's don't keep a shared list of problem players right? And its a seller's market so they can refuse at-will anyways.
>>97334562s'gross, and the proponents of it seem to be scumbags.
>>97334569I can't imagine how desperate and lonely you have to be to pay someone to play tabletop with you.
>>97334572It's like DND adventurers league or PF society which statistically has always been for working professionals, except DMs are willing to run sandbox campaigns with less rules as the honor system actually works once certain anons are filtered out.
>>97334562This is called a hobby for a reason.
>>97334569Who said anything about a shared list? If you're that bad, you get kicked from tables. Eventually, you exhaust your available options.>its a seller's marketControl over supply affords control over price and, indeed, a limited ability to select for palatable customers...but you're still limited to the pool of people who are interested in your services in the first place. Given that the consumer base is principally made up of those who have failed to establish stable playgroups, you can't refuse service to all of them and still find customers.
>>97334572and to defend it this hard because a bunch of Internet randoms started dunking on the idea
>>97334577Those don't cost money, anon.
>>97334580So do you have a shred of evidence for your demographic assumptions? I suppose it wouldn't matter as it reality doesn't suit itself to your whims nevertheless.
>>97334592The fact you're so desperate on 4chan of all places speaks volumes. I guess business is poor right now, eh?
>>97334643>You're a noplayers DM>You're a nogames player>not even advertising on 4chan means being desperateGiven the response, I'm starting to sense that gatekeeping the hobby might actually be saving it.
>>97334592Do you have a shred of evidence for yours?
>>97334665You're getting gatekept right now, retard.
>>97334665I'm not nogamesYou are admitting to being nofriends
>>97334592Ah, not how this works, actually. You made the initial claim in >>97334443That means the burden of proof lies on you. So it falls on you to support your claim that those who (not whom) tend to be the most vocal against paid games are the undesirables.
>>97334670I have (one) videoessay.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz0NMu6_mNYYou're welcome.>>97334671>>97334675Your personality is already doing a great job gatekeeping DMs from wanting to associate with you.
>>97334686>I am gatekeeping you>Oh yeah? Well I don't want to associate with youThat is in fact the point of the exercise, you absolute moron.
>>97334695After many years DMing you can sort of tell the type of person who's never played a single game.
>>97334695You're missing the part where we don't have to resort to finding new ones though, autist-kun
>>97334706meant for >>97334686
>>97334702Anon, you're a proponent of paid games. There's no stance more nogames philosophically possible. It's a business model built entirely around nogames.
>>97334722I don't think anyone who's part of a stable game would provide such a response or be baited by the mere notion of paid games. But considering that you couldn't even provide anything of evidential substance in response, I'm just going to assume that you're screaming into the void hoping to elicit a reaction.
