>Ok roll a perception check>*Rolls*>6>*DM squints, adjusts glasses, looks puzzled for a moment.*>okay you think you notice a tiny key sticking out of the bushes nearby that might fit the keyhole to the wizards tower"Why do DMs do this?
>>97334565is there a word for generational stupidity but with similar retarded learned habitscause that's what that is, a series of retards teaching further retards
>>97334565>yeah, they found the key, all right>shame they missed the fairy onaholeIf players have to look for something that is necessary to advance the game state, they're going to find it. If I have them roll, it's not because that determines whether they move forward, but because there are other things that they might find while looking for it.
>>97334598Sounds like a shit campaign if only one thing can move the "game state" forward (why not just say "move the game forward"? Why do we need all this gay jargon from beardstroking söy redditors?). That's where we got the gay ass idea that the DM always has to say "yes and" like it's improv theater, when it fucking isn't.
>>97334565Yeah I was in a pendragon game where I had to roll to get off my horse. Just a regular dismount.
>>97334697>Sounds like a shit campaign if only one thing can move the "game state" forwardIf you need to go into a dungeon, opening the door is pretty much a necessary step of the game. That's why you don't put that behind a check that can be failed.>but you should ALWAYS be able to fail!I am simply not going to put up with the bullshit of forcing my players to roll checks every time they breathe. You can inhale and exhale without dying and I will write that on your character sheet if it's the only way to keep us from wasting any more of this god damn evening on your stupidity.
>>97334565No reason. I just make people roll some times to fuck with them
>>97334565>>Ok roll a perception check>>*Rolls*>>6>>*DM squints, adjusts glasses, looks puzzled for a moment.*>>You don't see anything unusual.
>>97334811This, when it comes to Perception rolls specifically, I ask for random meaningless ones sometimes so that the ones that matter don’t tip everyone off
>>97334565Either didn't read the rules or are using a rulesystem so fucking vague they have no idea how to pull a good ruling.Take for example 3.5e, reading from the Search skill rules:>It takes a full-round action to search a 5-foot-by-5-foot area or a volume of goods 5 feet on a side. ...which means that takes 6 seconds to (non-efficiently) look up a very specified spot, the context of which assumes a very tense scenario (eg: the monsters are coming soon!) but what if the pc are, for example, just passing by an alley and stumble in some abandoned crates (so not a tense situation) and they just decide to take a passing look at it?>When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10...and what if they have all the time of the world and decide to look at that with minutiae of particulars?>When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20....which still accounts for searching in a single 5ft square, to get the whole time required you just have to multiply that time frame (in this case 2min) with the numbers of squares needed to be inspected.In short by reading the rules the DM would know when to adjudicate a roll (a tense situation and with the complementary specification of where to search) which would also entice an obvious cost of failure (vulnerability over an impending threat), conversely they can just asses how much time it would take (if they only need to take 10 or the require to take 20) and what time entices in the scenario.
>>97334565To deceive stupid players like OP into believing they're idiots while distracting them with pointless objects that sound interesting because their character sucks at perceiving the important shit.
>>97334697>Sounds like a shit campaign if only one thing can move the "game state" forwardI hear this a lot but it's entirely possible that your players monofocus and forget their other leads / paths to progress, or fail and lock off those ways forward one by one until they're out of options.
>>97334581>a series of retards teaching further retardsYes. /thread
>>97334581"Tradition"
>>97334811>>97335025First, by rules, you don't ask the players to roll out of the blue for perception, you adjudicate a roll after the player enact sufficient a leverage in-game (eg: my character inspects that spot, or my character looks around). Second, if you need the players to notice something as a reaction you use Passive checks, not rolls, RTFM.>inb4 hurr durr i'm not running five ee!then congrats, you manged to find a game even more ass in defining skill checks. Not easy to stumble in that low of a bar.
>>97335407Fascinating. One slight issue, im not getting anyone to make a perception check. The roll is meaningless, so its actually RAW
>>97334697>why not just say "move the game forward"?You absolute fucking sub-80 illiterate. The game is always moving and ongoing. The current state is the current predicament, scenario, or situation that is meaningfully gated on either side. Moving the game state forward means that you advance from one "scene" in this context to the next.You being a gay fucking mongoloid is not a good excuse for not using qualifying language that makes sense to everyone else. Reconsider suicide, cocksucker.
>>97335476If the players triggered the roll by their action then yes, you're right, the spot that they're inspecting can be devoid of useful clues/items no mwtter how high they may roll, that's part of how the game works.
>>97334697>is there a key to the wizard tower mr GM?>yes you'll have to find it if you want to safely unlock the door>WWWWWOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW ONLY ONE WAY TO PROGRESS???? RAILROADING MUCH???????
>>97335488Its so funny that you think that. Make a wisdom check :)
>>97334565>DM squints, adjusts glasses, looks puzzled for a momentHe's trying to figure out how the trap you didnt see works
>>97335534>hurr durr lemme act like a cheeky little shit to prove a pointYou have none, unless you're playing with retards it would be evident that the characters couldn't ever know with absolutely certainty that their results are sufficient in discovering everything that needs to be discovered (that may or may not exist), the player would just take the value of the roll as the character conviction about their result, rolling again (or using a procedure like the 3.5e "take 20") can always be on the table, the DM has to make have that choice have some consequence though (losing time, making a mess, etc...).
>>97334565>okay you think you notice a tiny key sticking out of the bushes nearby that might fit the keyhole to the wizards tower"The better use of a Perception check here would be to scrutinize the key and figure out if it would actually fit the damn keyhole before you even try it. Maybe it's molded into a shape that looks similar to the lock or something idk.
>>97335575Sorry, you failed the wisdom check...
>>97335226Then speak a new language.In fact, find a way to communicate without using words; speech and text are traditions, after all.
>>97334738I had a DM who made us roll to walk over EVERY bridge, otherwise we fell off into the water, where we would have to do strength tests to not drown. The other players used to just hide their rolls and cheat, saying they passed and carried on with the game. Tired of this pointless roll or die (and cheating it encouraged) at the next bridge I rolled my die in the middle of the table for all to see - my character fell off into the water and failed all three strength tests. It fucked up the DMs plot because my character was supposed to play a key part in the next scene. It cut down the cheating the other players did and he never made us do pointless repetitive 'roll or die' die rolls again.
>>97334565General perception is dumb. Just have stealth rolls contrast alertness, and let players search for stuff if they want to which can reveal hidden things. If you want to give something to your players, just give it to them. Hidden objects should be extras that maybe make certain tasks easier, rather than be required for progression.
>>97335115This is a ragebait thread for engagement farming, sane posts are not allowed in it.
