There are a lot of examples of knights being implemented into a sci-fi future setting (Warhammer 40k, Battletech, Dune), but are there any examples of medieval societies with modern-esque professional soldiers?
>>97339216What are you looking for specifically? I doubt you'll find anything like the "Volunteer" military of current day and most people will fall back on some roman-esque setup for their fantasy militaries if they bother to put that much thought into it.
>>97339216>"There are a lot of examples of knights being implemented into a sci-fi future setting">cites a bunch of fantasy examples
>>97339216Professional soldiers are more trouble than they are worth in pre-modern societies, for a few key reasons>payWhere do you get the money to pay them? Their salaries are likely going to be relatively low (as the tax base in pre-modern economies isn't that large), and when battles don't go your way they're likely to take their pay and desert. Rome avoided this by emphasizing loot as a payment method, but this was effectively a mix of pillaging and bribery. Once the Roman conquests stopped and the empire had to focus on defense rather than offense, joining the Roman legions ceased to be profitable and so it was increasingly farmed out to foreigners, which leads to the next problem>loyaltyWho are the soldiers loyal to? In a citizen's militia, they're loyal to the city or region they're from. In a feudal society, they're loyal to their lord. In a professional military, they're loyal to the person that pays them. In the case of Rome, this was their general and this led to generals having way too much power and leading to a series of generals overthrowing the republic (starting with Sulla and ending with Augustus). To give some idea of how quickly this happens, during much of the Roman Republic the Roman military was actually all conscripts. Not professional at all, closer to the hoplite model (sometimes just literally hoplites in the early Republic). But the second a professional military was introduced, Sulla took over the Republic and went on a purging spree of his political rivals. And shortly after, Caesar also took over, and we all know the story from there.>equipmentWho pays for the equipment? And logistics? In modern times, all of this is paid by the state, but in ancient times soldiers would often be forced to pay for it themselves. In a feudal society, your lord pays; but in a pre-modern professional army it's likely your general pays and oh look it's the loyalty problem again.
>>97339417(continued)In general, professional pre-modern armies are a very bad idea that are best used to set up an Emperor who just took over. They don't work long term, as in real life they devolved into feudal armies. If you want to use magic to modernize the economy and make equipment or communication much easier, that's a different story but it will take some effort on the state's part to keep the army from just taking over.
>>97339417>>97339421Why would this be an actual problem though? Just find a reason to change the circumstances. It's not like people need a setting like Battletech or 40k to make sense for them to think the knight aspect of it is cool.
>>97339216The best example would be the Byzantine (or, East Roman) Empire which maintained Roman professionalism, but even they were starting to morph into something resembling a warrior nobility by the late medieval age due to the expenditure needed to be competitive with their feudal counterparts. Heavy infantry fell by the wayside for heavy cavalry, and what is a cataphract but a knight wearing scales?
>>97339484This is a "just turn your brain off dude" argument. You want the aesthetic without the actual thing, when having the actual thing involves story, conflict, and additions to the setting you need to account for.
>>97339651>You want the aesthetic without the actual thingWhat's wrong with that? Most settings do that.
>>97339216>modern-esque professional soldiers?how modern are we talking? modern enough that there's a full time dedicated soldier profession who spend all day every day either preparing for war, fighting the war, or living on a military base/camp doing logistics for war? Or modern as in 2026 where not only are there people whose full-time career earning a paycheck is being a professional soldier, but there's not even an active draft and not just the officers but every single infantry member is a 100% volunteer doing it for the money/benefits/bragging rights? Because that's an EXTREMELY recent development even compared to full time professional soldiers.To get the latter you need to look at some super idealized fantasy elves who treat war like poetry and shit and are borderline post-scarcity. IRL first world nations obviously aren't actually post scarcity but compared to a ditch digger in 200 BC they might as well be, enlisting as a rifleman so you can put a down payment on your big ass Ford F-150 and then be given a housing allowance because you knocked up your girlfriend right out of highschool is just kind of unimaginable to a peasant pikeman drafted and handed cloth armor and a rusty pointy stick
>>97339216>There are a lot of examples of knights being implemented into a sci-fi future settingName even one.
>>97339216Glen Cook's Black company? A bunch of mercs do shit in a fantasy world, but it's pretty "modern" military wise. They - well, most of them - aren't fanatics, they just do their job. Also: the Bridgeburnes from Malazan?
>>97339397all scifi is fantasy. scifi is a subgenre of fantasy
>>97343780That makes even less sense than it being its own genre. I mean in terms of what words mean; it actually makes huge sense in terms of conning a bunch of suckers to buy something that sounds different in a saturated market, genius even.
>>97339417>joining the Roman legions ceased to be profitableHadrian managed to square this circle (as did Antonius Pious, if I recall correctly) but he was one of the few emperors who wasn't insanely stupid and corrupt, and actually used tax money for public works.
>>97339216>medieval societies with modern-esque professional soldiers?You can't really do both. Medieval society is distinct from modern society largely because of the way the state administers violence.The era you're looking for is Imperial Rome.
>>97339417>in ancient times soldiers would often be forced to pay for it themselves. In a feudal society, your lord paysThe other way around. In late antiquity, professional standing armies did exist with state issued arms. In feudal (medieval) societies, combatants were generally expected to provide their own equipment and training (except things like munitions and other consumables).
The Doctor Who episode 'The Time Warrior'.
