So my DND group was kind of disolving, 2 out of the 4 players left because of life issues (one got a job abroad and the other one is dealing with life), to keep playing we incorporated 2 new players with not so much experience but avid watchers of Critical Role.One of these player conditions was that we incorporate x cards to the game, she says that it makes it much more comfortable for her to know she can avoid unpleasant story elements having this tool. I started to read a bit about it online and is this something you guys have used? In my 20 years playing I've never used this.
entirely performative, and mostly talked about by bad faith actors.
>>97363372Nah. My table prefers to talk our problems out since we know each other. I heard it’s more for convention games and for people who are total strangers, meaning people who you have zero time to properly talk a problem through hence just skipping ahead to the next part of the module or whatever. And I don’t know if it’s true, but it would make the most sense as a function.
>>97363372My table has them, but they've never been used.
>>97363372>her>she
>>97363372>One of these player conditions was that we incorporate x cards to the gameTell her to fuck off. She is going to be a CONSTANT thorn in your side if you give her so much as an inch. The absolute SECOND you quiescence to anything she's gonna take you for everything. >SheBecause of course it is.
>>97363378of course it's performative but it's very real phenomenon.if you didn't live in a flyover town, you'd know that
>>97363454Okay, didn't imply otherwise tho. Glad you outed yourself.
I've had a few instances were my players didn't care for what I was doing but any time anyone had issue we would say something. Like an adult. There's no cards or mechanics to throw down because you're not getting your way.
>>97363372Kill everyone who uses or allows these.
>>97363372>not so much experience but avid watchers of Critical Role.This is already a red flag. You shouldn't have let them in close enough to suggest the X Card.
>>97363372Oh yeah, that happened. For real. It really did. Absolutely.
None of that shit happened, OP is desperate for attention and using a topic he knows will get it and this thread will hit bump limit because you tards can't help yourselves.
>another /pol/bait threadplease just leave, /tg/ is not /v/
>>97363502Heard you the first time
>>97363502thank you for admitting X cards are a subversive element that have no place at the table
>>97363506Admitting you made the other /pol/bait thread? Interesting.>>97363508You and I both know no one would discuss them in good faith here.
>>97363489there's an offchance its a real person, but as the board has been poisoned by spammed threads, its hard to trust anything now.Like every time a satanic panic thread pops up or complaining about a warhammer model, twice burned and all that.
>>97363432I mean now reading it again I know it sounds bad but she said she was into gritty fantasy. She is into a lot of obscure animes and trucrime documentaries
>>97363372Tell her "You are free to voice objections without props", if she persists, say "You have no intention of playing the game, you're only joining to start fights. We will find another player."Works every time.
>>97363514There is nothing to discuss that would meet your criteria of 'good faith'. 'Talk about it like an adult' is the only thing to be said to someone about this.
My X-card is schools or academia of any type. If the GM has the bright idea of magic campus, I get up and go play cards next door.
>>97363579As an urbanite, I give this topic the benefit of the doubt. There are people like this out there. If real, this is the answer to the question. Any sort of x card is inevitably used to assert control if there's no accountability. It's great to have input, it's completely wrong to allow for these sorts of whims. Not fair to the players or gm
>>97363372Tell """""her""""" to behave like an adult and speak up if there's a problem or else """""she""""" can find another group. Never give these people an inch, it's not worth it.
What ever happened to talking to people? Cards is so passive aggressive
>>97363533Then tell her she'll be fine. Just be firm that you don't do x cards. She will either respect your rules and firmness, or she won't and will leave. Win win
>>97363372If somebody finds something in an imaginary scenario fantasy game so unbelievably uncomfortable that they feel the need to have a way to make it stop immediately available just in case then either1)This person has serious emotional issues and should probably work on them rather than enforcing weird rules on others to accomodate itor2)The MG puts some horrendous fucking magical realm into his games that make people feel the need for something like that and you should just never play with such people ever. But honestly, I've never seen anyone genuinely using this thing, not even at public events and such. It feels pretty much pointless if you're also using trigger lists (which are also controversial, but ultimately much easier to defend). The only time I've encountered anyone even mentioning it in an actual playgroup was once in a very soft, lbtq friendly type group and even them didn't seem like people who would genuinely ever need to use this. I'm 99% certain that whoever came up with and popularised this retarded concept doesn't actually even play much games and just wanted to come up with a way to virtue signal and fix problems that never really existed
>>97363717As an urbanite you live in a fucking city with options that arent mentally ill. Its not you and 2 guys in a town of 50 interested in games.
>>97363372My x-cards are:My character fails at anythingMy character isn't the best at everythingMy character diesIn fact if anything doesn't go my way that's an X-card
>>97363767Supposedly the guy who made up the concept of a X card got the idea from the bdsm community’s safety tools. That should say a lot to why it was created.
>>97363372Ditch the bitch and get a different person in her place. Newblood has no place demanding changes when coming into a new group.
>>97363812Well that pretty much kills my idea for a Gor campaign.
This is funny because I stumbled into this like a year and a half. I entered this new group (mostly temporarily) from my LGS because my usual group couldn't meet due work/life. The new group looked kinda weird but I was just trying to scratch the rpg itch. They told me about the nono cards thing and I told them nah I'm fine, yet they insisted.>But there must be something that makes you uncomfortable, everybody has something that makes them uncomfortable or outright are afraid of something>Sure, death, drowning, but this is a game and I hope nothing of that will happen for real>No, silly, something that talking about it makes you afraid>Not really>You don't have fears?>Sure, acrophobia and aracnophobia>Cool so no heights and spiders>Again unless you tie me 20 fet up or have actual tarantulas in the table I'm more than fine with descriptions and minisThe kept pushing and they even became mad when I told them I was fine. I eventually conceded but left like 3-4 sessions in, they were a bunch of control freaks and the entire game felt like they were projecting their life choices/personalities/insecurities, there was no plot either
>>97363372Tell the tranny/bluehair player to fuck off.
>>97363475Yeah, this. No experience is fine, and Critical Role fan is kiiiiinda fine? At least potentially fine – but both at the same time is a disaster.
>>97363372Agree to use them, then make a secret arrangement with one of your old players that you can trust such that when the first session begins, he'll immediately tap the card and say "I want to X out the X-card from the game, the implicit judgment makes me uncomfortable at the table". Remove the card.
>>97363767>whoever came up with and popularised this retarded conceptThat would be Adam "Roborape" Koebel.
>>97363372>TQI play with adults, so I've never had to worry about the X-card.
>>97363963isn't posting at all in a bait thread 'being baited'
>>97363372One of the biggest proponents of them got canceled because none of his players used it when he made a robot cum. They all smiled and nodded and then ran off to twitter to get him run off the internet afterwards.
>>97363454Do you think "performative" means rare?>>97363372>One of these player conditions was that we incorporate x cards to the gameI found OP's problem. I take her aside and tell her, discretely, that this game is probably not a good fit for her. Be very careful with what women and gays you allow at a table. Very, very careful. Also, very obviously politically extreme folks will disrupt your table.>>97363502>X-cards/safety tools>Not /tg/Wut>>97363893Lmao. Shit is so funny.
>>97363999Somebody once postulated that revolution devours its own children. Might have had a point.
>>97363808Mine is "Violence against the disabled". No wheelchair bullshittery.It actually is, I'm a former social worker and I've seen a lot of abuse towards disabled people, especially children
>>97364025I think the main takeaway is that if *the* x-card guy couldn't get his players to actually use it, then what good will it do for anyone else? Most likely case is that someone who's fragile enough to have a panic attack won't think to use it in the moment and evidently people who are just uncomfortable won't either. Bad actors will of course, but why would you want to add a vector for bad behavior into your game?
>>97364036Out of sheer morbid curiosity...What was the last straw that made you quit?
>>97364046There were no "last straws", I ended up having to move back up to Scotland and change jobs.
>>97364076fair enough
>>97363893Roborape? what did I miss
>>97364218Firmware is stored in the cyber-womb.
>>97363372Not with physical cards, but you never know who's dad beat their mom to death with a golf trophy until it comes up by accident, so its a good idea to have that pre-agreed escape rather than force someone to stop the whole game and trauma dump to explain why
>>97363893>>97363812Well, come to think of it, the only campaign I've ever been in during my 15 years in the hobby that genuinely could have used an X card in few places WAS ran by people who were active in the local BDSM scene So fuck me, maybe this guy was onto something, it's just that his problem was way more niche than he assumed
I remember when the SocJus shit first got big in the late 00's and one of girls in my social circle suddenly realized she'd been abused as a kid and would randomly freak out about stuff and ruin a whole game session or party by yelling and hyperventilating. EG one time I was being "threatening" by making a hand-chopping motion while talking at the game table. I think it's mostly a way people try to feel a sense of agency and get attention. 99% of this neuroticism would end if we banned smartphones, made sure everyone was properly socialized, and kicked out the plutocrats. You simply didn't see this when everyone had a house and family by 25. My grandfather was considered a nerd, lazy, and a little odd but the guy had a wife, two kids, his own store, a church, a bowling league, and a fraternal organization membership. He mogged the shit out of any modern day introvert. >avid watchers of Critical RoleYou have to have a straight talk with these people that you're not a professional voice actor like Matt Mercer, there will be awkward moments in games with no one to edit them out, and they have to put in effort and have their character do stuff and not just expect everyone else to entertain them like a television show or podcast.
>>97364218He was doing some sci-fi game and one of his players was a robot who was getting upgraded by an NPC and he described it feeling orgasmic. The players chuckled a tiny bit and then he got absolutely destroyed by a twitter mob for his "problematic" behavior. He was the biggest X-card guy out there and he pushed a boundary that could have been carded, but instead of doing that the players got out their digital torches and pitchforks.
>>97363378>OP gets called out by first postthread should've ended here
>>97363454oh anon, if only you knew how poz'd flyover country is The cornfields of wisconsin are literally gayer than Chicago
I don't mind safety tools and all that other gay shit. I use them myself because I run games at conventions and for strangers very often (not paid GM, just volunteer to run at the LGS). I refuse to use X cards though, I've seen them fail to work multiple times. Someone to meek to speak up for themselves is going to be too meek to hold up a card. That's my experience with it.
>>97364324Its really bizzare how we seem to have had a surge in right wing activists trying to push a narrative lately. Im tempted to think someone either set up a bot or paid some indians since they all just hyperfocus in on one thread and make the same posts in it every time
Why do people act like x cards are only for weirdos? Dude no one wants to hear the GMs sexual fantasies unchecked.
>>97364410If you can say that, you're too qualified to use X cards.
>>97364417>shy players shouldn't have a resource to speak up
>>97364301I personally know a scholar who studies how memories of national traumas are handled from cultural point of view. He reaches out and talks with survivors of concentration camps, genocides, forced relocations, ethnic repressions etc. Mostly from the Balkans, but not only. And one extremely interesting consistent result he found is that the "second generation victims", i.e. the children of victims, tend to be much more strongly traumatised by these sorts of experiences and react much more emotionally when talking or thinking about them than the actual people who survived through them. It sounds ridiculous, I know. But apparently it's true. People who actually survive this sort of tough shit are mostly able to more or less work it through and keep on living. But people who are being told their entire lifes again and again about those huge cruelties and injustices that their parents and grandparents suffered, about those huge national traumas their people have, who make these past crimes a part of their identity, who keep imagining, and thinking, and ruminating about them etc. end up being more scarred and traumatised than people who actually experienced them and just got over it.I feel like all of these snowflakes are basically the same case - they like to build their identities around those various injusticies and social issues and end up obsessing them and blowing them so out of proportion that they start tormenting them much more than they have would otherwise. We torture ourselves in our minds much more than we are hurt by the actual world
>>97364446Shy players aren't gonna do shit regardless. If they're too shy to speak they're gonna be too shy to lift a card because it's not speaking they fear it's friction. And fuck shy people, why do I even want some guy who won't speak at my table when this is a social hobby? Stick to your single player video games fag
>>97364446Shy players are usually too shy to cause a fuss by tapping the card. There's a very narrow window of shyness for its genuine purpose.
>>97363397Indeed, when your're in a convention, you don't have time to waste 20+ minutes asking someone why dismemberment are too much so you just let them tp and ask "would just saying it happens without description ok for you? okay, got it, let's move on"
>>97363372And you come to 4chan to ask for advice, a place that has never use it and famously hates the idea of even someone else using it? You're not smart and your bait is stale. No one here uses the X card but they sure love to complain about it.
>>97364478I will argue that telling them they can use it by passing the card is not as evident. Also, just knowing they CAN use it has the effect of making the anxious person feel less anxious, placebo effect and all that.
>>97364579I've used X cards and that's why I complain about it. It doesn't work. Safety tools in their current form are relatively new concept to roleplaying and not every tool invented is going to work.
>>97364592What changes do you advice to use with strangers? Also, is the experience online gaming or in person gaming. Genuine curiosity here.
>>97364586Dunno, I find that the kind of shy person who would theoretically need a tool like an X card to wordlessly signal there's a problem is also the exact kind of person who would refuse to lay down an X card when there's so many eyes on them at the table. They'd rather pretend everything's fine or just act like it doesn't bother them until it gets to be too much, at which point they tell you in private because they don't want to start a fuss at the table.So I don't think it's for shy people. Or at least not the kind of conflict averse people I've GM'd for.
>>97364623Well, the answer is people with light autism and women. So for example, if that person is okay with most adult topics, but sexual assault makes uncomfortable they can just pass the card to the GM so that he moves the scene forward without further description, and people around her know they shouldn't make a fuzz about it so they move on as well. Of course, since the tool is optional if you're okay with just saying the thing, you can always just say the thing.
>>97364653>the answer is people with light autism and womenHonestly, knowing someone who is both, I would laugh if she ever needed to use an X card, cause she has zero shame in telling you she hates something instead of dancing around the issue.
>>97364680Good, now remember your friend is not every other person out there.
>>97364410X cards are more for heavy scenes aren't they? Not the>muh feetType of scenario but more like a DM got overzealous with the drow bdsm rape club.
>>97364616I run games for strangers all the time at cons and events. To protect themselves from liability, the events generally want GMs to figure out lines and veils. Admittedly I lean towards the chud perspective of telling people to suck it up and realize the fiction can't harm you but I go along with safety tools because I love cons and Gming events, and using them isn't so offensive to me that I'll angrily reject them. so I'll use safety tools that seem useful and have a proven track record of working. Normally that's just handing out Monte Cooks RPG consent checklist at the start of the game and speaking to my players at the start, kind of like a 15 minute session 0, and that's elimated 99% of issues right off the bat. My issue with x cards has been voiced multiple times ITT already so I'll just point to posts that go into it, like this one. >>97364623The defenders of X cards seem to believe that the issue with shy conflict averse people is that they don't want to "speak up" for themselves. That's not generally the case. They don't want to draw attention or cause friction at all, whether it be lifting a card or speaking. That's where the x card fails and I've seen it personally myself and in other people's games.
>>97364691I don't recall ever claiming that she was, sir or ma'am.
>>97364714What communication tool do you propose for someone who wasn't expecting a given scenario in a game and it's too afraid to speak up despise having a bad moment? Usually the deal with the X-Card is that is but a safety net, but is not an all encompassing tool. It can't solve every issue, but it gives people one more option to communicate and if no one uses it, is not like something that takes much space on the table, or waste too much time to incluse.
>>97363372I don't play with idpols
>>97364740I honestly have no clue but I think my issue isn't with the tool itself, it's conflict averse people who will not act but will still expect me to read their minds. I offer X cards anyways, if for no other reason than to demonstrate to con staff that I made every good faith effort to mitigate issues
>>97364410>Dude no one wants to hear the GMs sexual fantasies unchecked.Sounds like you're playing with weirdos to me anon
>>97364789Fair enough. As always I see this as a very base-to-base issue, there's no one size fit's all solution, so having a diversity of approaches is the only reasonable way to go about it for now, always looking to maintain the flow of the game and the best experience for the table. the X-Card is not a magic tool, but is indeed a tool.
>>97363808>>97364036The corollary to the X-card is that, if it is being abused, the GM or group get to call that behavior out. If it is being used honestly, but far too often, the GM or group get to politely suggest that the player may be a poor fit for this game. The X-card is a communication tool, not a shackle. If someone uses it in bad faith, that makes them the asshole, and they should be booted>>97364278>you never know who's dad beat their mom to death with a golf trophy until it comes up by accidentI once had a scene where a PC and his mentor are fighting side-by-side against a dangerous enemy. The enemy deflects the PC's spear thrust so that it strikes the mentor, mortally wounding him. Imagine my surprise when the experienced roleplayer that likes dark content suddenly is really upset. Turns out there was a similar tragedy in his family, and it has always been a deep-seated fear of repeating it
>>97364852>Turns out there was a similar tragedy in his family,I'm doubtful... but also curious because I very much distrust that spear wounds are a common occurrence in daily life and if they are.... well it's probably your own fault at some level.
>>97364868nta but I presume it means someone taking a hit that was meant for you, not the spear part lol
>>97363808>My x-cards are:>My character fails at anything>My character isn't the best at everything>My character dies>In fact if anything doesn't go my way that's an X-cardWe unironically got a player who did this at a local LARP. Son of one of the bigger investors in the game, so we couldn't just tell him to fuck off. It nearly destroyed the entire game between the people who took it at face value and the people who wanted to tell him to screw off because he was clearly just being a cunt.I don't have an intrinsic issue with the *concept* of an Xcard, but now that I've seen them weaponized by a bad faith actor, I won't ever use them at a table myself. It's just too easy for someone to use them as a weapon to shut down a game. Imagine doing all the advanced prep to run a Drow campaign and someone drops an Xcard that says you aren't allowed to have spiders in your game.
>>97364868No, it wasn't a spear IRL. Hunting accident with firearms. What mattered was suddenly being responsible for killing his father-figure and having that horrifying moment of guilt and panic as the man's life slipped away. At least, that was my read on the situation while I tried to help my friend calm down.
>>97364740>What communication tool do you propose for someone who wasn't expecting a given scenario in a game and it's too afraid to speak up despise having a bad momentPhysically can't exist. Communication of any form requires the bravery to open a dialogue in the first place. Shy people don't have that, so there's nothing that can be done for them. It's entirely a "them" issue, and it's a problem they have to solve within themselves.
>>97364898I don't think you can compare a whale thinking the LARP was pay-to-win with the average randos at a con table-
>>97363372Oh look. Another thread that will go to 300 posts where the exact same people say the exact same thing they said in the last thousand identical threads that have been made.
>>97364936Is always about extending a hand to someone else, especially if you don't know their circumstances, they may not even need or use what you're offering but they're probably you care enough to offer it.
>>97363372I became aware of this nonsense in a cyberpunk "living community" but they called this shit "lines and veils." Since it's effectively names out of a hat every session you don't know who you'll be paired with. Me and my friend after one of these sessions saw this bit about lines and veils in someone's profile "arthropods and anything with eyestalks."We made a lot of jokes about what we should have done in hindsight. Because in these sessions they ask you what you're doing around in the city before the job. "Oh yeah. We're at a Cajun restaurant demolishing crawdads, ripping off their heads and sucking out the juices." But yeah people are lame and cry about the weakest shit.
>>97363372Generally these are a poor idea.They look like a fun tool to show you care about the table's feelings, but in reality either; they never see use (because most people have the same opinions on what's too gross to rp), or they're used in a very disruptive way that ruins the flow of the game and makes it difficult for the GM, and ruins the pacing and suspense for the players.It's a Critical Role thing, designed for audience viewing over game quality, and with the expectation your DM or GM is going to be someone like Matt Mercer.The better way to play is; talk with your GM beforehand to tell them anything you don't want to see in the game (because people do have personal triggers, it's a thing), but then if something comes up in game that you don't like, and the rest of the table is fine with it, grin and bear it until the end of session, and then have a private word with the GM.If something gives you 'nam flashbacks and you can't manage this, it's okay. But it's more polite to everyone if you try develop 'bump tolerance' instead of insisting the table changes.
>>97363432>you quiescenceAcquiesce. Quiescence is a noun. The verb quiesce means to be silent or to become quiet. or to temporarily inactivate which is not what you mean. You mean "when you comply without protest" which is "when you acquiesce".
>>97363372>I started to read a bit about it online and is this something you guys have used?Fuck no. I'm with >>97363378 and >>97363397, it's always seemed like performative bullshit by shitty people I wouldn't want to spend any time with. I can see why it might have gained popularity in the con circuit but even then it's just enabling people to be pussies. >One of these player conditions was that we incorporate x cards to the game, she says that it makes it much more comfortable for her to know she can avoid unpleasant story elements having this tool. Sounds like a massive red flag to me. Someone who's invited to join a game should not be trying to force changes to the group dynamic. I can only imagine the amount of drama she will create.
>>97364868>I'm doubtful... but also curious because I very much distrust that spear wounds are a common occurrence in daily life and if they are.... well it's probably your own fault at some level.He could be Australianwww.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-21/nt-woman-speared-in-the-head-in-alleged-dv-attack/105553788
>>97365142On average people shouldn't have triggers. There are people who have serious issues in their past but chances are good you're probably not going to play with one and when they do show up their the exceptions you should know about in advance. Otherwise anyone with a trigger is just a spoiled tit who was coddled to long and never learned how to deal with shit.
