>>97367640
It's used the same as the real world in most setting the only difference is less people look into it past basic arithmetic. Maybe Wizards, Nobles and Merchants might use use it in their jobs and all but yeah, most people today can barely do math. What makes you think that people in a Magical Ren-fair would know more? Maybe Sci-fi if they're a spacer for space flight and all.

>>97367640
There is a worldbuilding general for nogames posting.

>>97367663
>What makes you think that people in a Magical Ren-fair would know more?
I think they would know less. That's also important and interesting. for example, could innumerate NPCs be tricked into accepting bad trades?
also, how do you model a PC who is bad at math? if you're some not!african who can't count to 3, how do you manage your inventory?

>>97367700
>if you're some not!african who can't count to 3, how do you manage your inventory?
Probably easiest to just dump int down to 7 or 8 and say you were the smart one in the tribe. Playing a character unable to count past three or lacking theory of mind is something you'd to be a really committed roleplayer to attempt, fine if that's what you want to do but probably easier to sidestep in most cases.

>>97367684
Too bad you guys get to shitpost there too. Fuck off.

math is the same wherever you go
that's part of the appeal

>>97367700
To be fair, I was trying to say more fuckers today can't do math past basic counting. Hell, I bet most people don't know their multiplication table. Speaking of this subject. Their was a anime about something similar called 'Secrets of the Silent Witch' where the main character is all about numbers in a magical world that basically that classic fantasy magical Victorian school and all. Also some places think too many numbers were "witchcraft" or something. (The anime shows flashbacks of it but ends before fully explaining it.) Mind you magic is known and exist too.

Also, have you seen that video explained how some people from Africa explain time. I swear, it worse than what a toddler would say. They can't grasp the idea of time past a fucking year or so.

>>97367700
By weight I guess.

>>97367700
Why do you insist that they're not!Africans?

>>97367640
Pretty advanced to barely able to make simple calculations. In my games setting magic and the technology that would allow for automation can't co-exist, as the chaotic reality manipulating nature of magic would interfere and break stuff purely running on the laws of physics. (not the most original idea, but at least it explains why things have been in medieval stasis for so long)

There was country that was able to produce machines because they managed to collectively ban magic for quite a while before their country collapsed due to civil war. They did manage to spread around the world setting up schools and colleges that teach the principles of mathematics, advanced metallurgy and engineering. Functioning planetariums, working plumbing and automation aren't uncommon around those places, but magic items and spell casting is banned on the premise of these schools.

I think if you want a grounded functioning fantasy world that doesn't fall apart at basic scrutiny then mathematics and science should have some place in it.

None of my players give a shit about any of the above though so its mostly just world building for myself and hoping they appreciate playing in a setting that has some actual reason on why things are the way they are.

>>97367777
Quads checked, but not quite, when you get deep enough arguments over the axioms to use get vicious and far enough back you get shit like Ethiopia invoking deities for operations. The benchmark is whether the hard logic is equivalent, but that leaves plenty of room for wildly disparate extent and prevalence of understanding as is OP's question as well as utterly bizarre framings.

Particularly if you've got entities backing divination by equations not actually related to the mundane processes or Wizard Bullshit powered by numerology. That can do... Very nasty things to math as we know it, by reinforcing shit it took us centuries of heated arguments and multiple major theological shifts to dislodge.

>>97367780
>Hell, I bet most people don't know their multiplication table.
That's a poor way to learn math anyways, you "should" be learning algorithms to apply to arbitrary numbers rather than just memorizing products.

>Also, have you seen that video explained how some people from Africa explain time. I swear, it worse than what a toddler would say. They can't grasp the idea of time past a fucking year or so.
Before the advent of clock towers, the same was true of much of Europe, and even today with digital clocks in most people's pockets you get people who lack it because they never really interact with time pressure. Japan also had a really wonky approach to time, but then they got train schedules which pretty much forced them to adopt Europe's.

>>97367774
Stop being a janny. Let people post what they want.

>>97367684
Generals are cancerous and I have every thread with the word "general" in it filtered on all boards.

>>97367980
Nobody asked, redditor.

>>97367847
I think they did cause of OP>>97367640 saying it first.

>>97367780
>have you seen that video explained how some people from Africa explain time
you have to be more specific than that

>>97367888
>if you want a grounded functioning fantasy world that doesn't fall apart at basic scrutiny then mathematics and science should have some place in it.
The problem with this is that inevitably "the science of magic" will come up. Now to anyone with a functioning imagination, this isn't an issue. Unfortunately though, the average midwit suffers actual physical distress trying to comprehend metaphysical conundrums or paradoxes, and they collectively decided "medieval fantasy" was the go-to escape from modernity, so anything too "modern" or """mundane""" in their fantasy games sends them into a frothing rage.

>>97368026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN5PfzD5ehI

>>97368087
...... You're not wrong. I don't mind the idea of magic being "chaotic" in nature. However I hate the idea that magic has to be random and basically "unknown" and can't have a "science" to it. I prefer the idea that magic is kept hidden to the nature of it. As well as people find their own way to cast and use magic.

>>97368117
>However I hate the idea that magic has to be random and basically "unknown" and can't have a "science" to it.
The funniest part is the people who force this "magic is incapable of being measured or understood" garbage will then go on and play a wizard who can reliably cast the same spells on command.

>>97368026
Certain tribes across Africa don't bother with Months and Clocks and units of time more complex then "Morning, Noon, Night" and it makes whitey here seethe because how are they supposed to make line go up if they're not working 60 hours a week?

>>97368087

Of course there is some method to consistently cast spells, wizards exist after all. Id imagine they would study both mechanical stuff and magic at the same time leading to rapid progression and magically infused technology. But I dont want the setting to be that.

Having magic and (advanced) technology be mutually disruptive solves some of that. Methodical practitioners of magic can co-exist in the same world as those that research mathematics and engineering.

Just that both kind of break down in each others pressense, machines will just stop working as the internals rip themselves apart and at the same time magic turns wild in the face of sufficient tech. Though of the two technology is the one that most often loses out since recasting a spell is a lot less time and resource consuming than rebuilding a steam engine.

What the exact boundaries on each are I don't know, I've put it in lore that there's been attempts to unite both principles for centuries now with little success and those that try are ridiculed by the unwashed masses. All of this was mainly just how I can justify the world progress having essentially stopped just on the brink of the industrial revolution.

With enough time and effort I could possibly flesh out the exact mechanics of how it all works but I'd only be doing it for myself. I dont think its important enough to put so much effort into something that is just set dressing with some occasional in game interactions.

>>97368167
>worldbuilding is useless
Finally you guys realize

>>97368153
Oh I know. That's the dumbest take. I don't mind the idea that teaching magic is hard and everyone learns and does magic differently so you can't just teach it at a school. However once it gets to the "magic is the unknown" BS while have wizards as a playable class. Then I can't take the setting too seriously. (Now I don't mind the non caster saying shit like that when the caster is juggling fireballs to prove a point in the background mocking him for NOT being able to grasp magic and all.)

>>97368177
The fuck you talking about. You need that for a good game or story. Yes, you don't have to go into too much detail. However the more fantastical the world and story the more you have to explain how it is.

>>97368177
Worldbuilding and a consistent functioning setting isn't useless at all, it allows players to get much more immersed in the game if everything doesn't fall apart the moment they ask a mundane question. Even the most fantastical setting has to have internal logic that justifies how things work and why they're there.

What *is* useless is writing an entire damn encyclopedia detailing everything about the setting to the most pointless inane detail. If thats what you enjoy doing then fine have at it, but it won't do anything useful for your game.

>>97368207
Pretty much, you don't need to talk about how everyone builds or get water and all if the same normal. However you have an fantastical thing for farming, traveling, etc. Explain it a little bit so people get the idea of it. You don't have to go crazy about it. However, a simple explanation goes a long way in worldbuilding. Even if it's mostly a joke line and all.

>>97368191
>>97368207
Nope. Keep crying though. Nogames copes are funny.

>>97368087
>The problem with this is that inevitably "the science of magic" will come up.
It's not inevitable, because it's perfectly logically valid for magic to work in a fashion impervious to scientific research methodologies.

>Now to anyone with a functioning imagination, this isn't an issue.
Says the one who cannot imagine an unreal thing working in a fashion our studies of the real don't apply to.

>>97368153
The contradiction only arises when you assume anything that can be done reliably MUST be capable of being broken down by the specific empirical approach that is what most use the word "science" to refer to, or insist on prescribing a meaning of "science" so bloated as to render the proper philosophical work behind research methodologies illegible.

>>97368153
Those people don't actually play traditional games.

>>97368235
..... Go back to Bluesky and beat off to that shitty fetish shit you call fantasy. There is a reason why your woke shit doesn't sell and it the lack of worldbuilding and making everything a fucking soapbox and/or joke.

>>97368289
Are the twitter troons in the room right now mr nevergames?

>>97368249
>anything that can be performed reliably MUST be capable of being broken down and studied.
Yes, solely by nature of being able to be performed reliably. You are no where near as smart as you think you are.

>>97367640
Why did you have to make it racist from the second line anon

>>97368370
How is it racist?

>>97367640
>how the characters think (i.e. logically, or numerically, or in a poetic / non-mathematical way)
Yeah sure, let me just ignore how much effort it takes to be humanly understandable as it is and just slap yet another layer of emulation on top of that. No thanks.

>>97368352
Just because you, personally, can make or do something does not mean you, personally, can break down the process to testable constituent functions capable of being applied in other contexts. We still don't have a clear explanation for why bicycles self-stabilize, for example, with experimental apparatuses assembled to test whether they still do with any and all of a wide range of commonly suspected factors only for ones with none of them to still self-stabilize beyond the bounds of any known theory.

And that's "simple" mechanical force. Multi-planar magic is throwing out the assumption of invariant rules right off the bat, and if one of the planes is inimical to your existence due to how its rules differ from your typical plane of residence you're going to have to jump through an assload of hoops to construct an apparatus capable of relaying you any information of spell functions residing there. Even if the truth of the internal functions were capable of being empirically determined by a sufficiently priviledged observer, to do science with it requires such an observer both actually exist and be capable of the right kind of work to perform experiments, which is not exactly difficult to preclude in the conditions of a counterfactual.