For the anon asking how to build a cataphractii heavy army last thread:

>>97425930
The best cataphractii unit to use multiples of would be cataphractii command squads. They don't have Vanguard so get the full amount of VP from objectives. This means you can park them on objectives, farm VP, and deny enemy scoring units the opportunity to claim the objectives.
They're one of the best melee units marines can bring, so there's not many units that can force a cataphractii command squad to move through close combat. Which leaves shooting, but with a 4++ invulnerable they are quite durable.

Cataphractii do need transport, this has always been the case. Personally I prefer multiple squads in land raiders, much more flexible and less of an over-commitment if the cata have to charge anything that isn't the enemy 10 man terminator deathstar (if they brought one to being with) If the opponent does bring a terminator deathstar, you can just charge it with two or more of your own squads and achieve the same result as having one squad of 10.

You will need some decent fire support, like two or three units that can destroy vehicles at range, and some units that kill infantry hordes and/or elite infantry.

What legion do you play? If you haven't decided yet, consider Alpha Legion or Blood Angels. Both have legion specific cataphractii terminators with Line 1, which allows you to build a very strong army with nothing but cataphractii as infantry. Alpha Legion's lernaean terminators are slightly better for this in my opinion, as they can take a conversion beamer which allows for some decent long range shooting whilst camping back field objectives.

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Questions for all you Custodes enjoyers:

1. Do you intend to buy the new ones, or will you just get more of the older models?

2. If you haven't started an army yet, are you worried that they will discontinue the older figures in lieu of the new?

>>97426018
I haven't picked a chapter. I was honestly thinking World Eaters just for lore reason and since I knew they have a unique Terminator unit (though they seem to be divisive from what I read).

But Blood Angels could work too, and appeal to me more thematically than Alpha Legion. Almost made a BA army a couple editions ago in 40k. Wouldn't mind an excuse to field some Assault Marines either. Definitely going to consider them, thanks.

>>97426175
I will be getting at least one box of the new infantry. Never liked the old custodes infantry, way too bulky compared to the artwork. Made them look more like space marines but gold, rather than their own distinct version of super-soldiers.
Don't care about there being femstodus heads, always use helmets on everything anyway. And if I let retarded retcons get in the way of my enjoyment of the hobby I'd have quit a loooong ago, ignoring stupid shit is crucial when BL and modern GW have made it their mission to destroy the setting that made their company.
If the updated liber has some interesting rules I might expand beyond a small allied force at some point.

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>>97425643
>I want a scenario but I want to paint no extra models
You gotta capture El Presidente, who is an Infantry model that uses 0 transport capacity and does not block a transport from being entered by any unit. He can be attached to any type of non-vehicle unit, including Cavalry, Monster or Antigrav. However, as long as he is attached to a unit, one of the models (player's choice) suffers a modifier of -1A, down to a minimum of 0A: he has to be watched to prevent escape!
A unit attached to El Presidente generates 1 VP at the beginning of the turn as long as it's not locked in melee or under a status effect, and whoever has control of him at the end of the game gains 3 VP. The Presidente grants 3 VP to the player whose Deployment Zone he is in at the end of the game, even if he isn't currently attached to that player's unit.
No wound can be allocated to El Presidente and he doesn't move by himself. If the unit he's attached to is forced to Flee, he becomes separated from that unit and remains stationary

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I have a slight dilemma.
Got 5 of Tortuga Bay's Tyrant seige terminators. They're lovely models, but I'm struggling to come up with a way to really kitbash them or make them mine.

For the other half of the 10 man tyrant squad I'm using indomitus terminators with a mix of bits I found and I'm super excited about them, can't quite say the same for the Tortuga ones, as nice as they are on their own.

All I can really come with is to headswap the squad leader, and maybe give him a hammer to help him stand out on his own, but I'm drawing a blank on anything for the rest of them.

So any other ideas?

>>97426175
1) I'll get two of the new battle boxes. I technically already have a full army but I like the new models and will use them in 40k too. Lore is still shit though.

2) No. Worst case scenario I will just put them in my display cabinet. Custodes are extremely cheap comparatively speaking.

>>97426188
Jump pack infantry are great, having some fast units besides terminators is quite handy.

>>97426188
>and since I knew they have a unique Terminator unit
Every legion (I think) has its own uniqe terminator unit. Even Raven guard and Alpha legion for what its worth

>>97426216
>Tyrant siege
>Indomitus
kys

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>>97426260
My guys are loyalist outcasts so stuck with using inferior gear, and I've got a 30k conversion kit for indomitus that I think makes them fit in the setting just fine.

>>97426267
Indomitus terminator armour isn't cataphractii terminator armour. What 's next, you're gonna use bolters as lascannons too? Fucking dipshit.

>>97426282
NTA but what's the problem? The missile launchers are the main thing with Tyrant's, doing them in another pattern is interesting, especially if it fits their army's narrative.
Be inspired by the universe, not constrained by it.
>>97426216
That said fuck it, give them top mounted heavy bolters now, just to spite this anon.

>>97426247
Word Bearers didn't get one until Forges of Saturn gave them the first playable Saturnine variant, but it's a very good one. Which means Alpha Legion can just steal it

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>>97425973
>>TQ
always play the objectives over mindless move forward and chasing.

Also Anons what are you all working on. I have mech, Sallies and BA to paint this year but I have been distracted immediately with a new 1kson project with the new terminators converted.

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>>97425973
>What tactics do you prefer when you play?
Target saturation and threat diffusion. Don't have one big unit to deal with each type of target, but rather have numerous small flexible units that can tackle anything when combining their efforts. That way there's no single main threat the opponent can focus down to keep their own important unit(s) safe.

>>97426383
Painting up a rifleman boxnought. Can't believe we got 5th edition GK style rifleman dreads in HH now, loving it.

>>97426267
i <3 bonding studs

>>97426199
>>97426237
Pleb taste. Why buy miniatures when you disagree with the lore change, you have no integrity and a tourist mindset.

>>97426216
Indomitus is not the proper loadout since they are in cataphractii. So you kitbash is illegitimate, you have the mind of a troon.

>>97426423
Whatever excuse makes you feel better about not owning any models anon.

>>97426282
This. It must be a 40k refugee.

>>97426428
Irrelevant, it doesn't matter how many models you own when you have the mindset of a tourist. What year did you join the hobby?

>>97426434
You never became part of the community or hobby if you don't own models. Unless you post your models your opinions mean less than nothing to me, anon.

>>97426442
You did not answer my question in good faith so you are probably a newfag.

Post minis isn't an argument, you can still be a part of the community from reading the FW black books or BL-slop, it's funny how a troonstodes buyer tries to gatekeep.

>>97426427
>So you kitbash is illegitimate
Gatekeeping is good but Christ anon. This is the kinda shit I'd expect from a 40k tourney judge.
>>97426318
>Be inspired by the universe, not constrained by it.
Amen to that.

>>97426452
>Buying models despite femstodes is wrong
>But coms00ming BL slop despite the long laundry list of retcons abusing the lore is fine
Talk about having a double standard. Thanks for confirming your opinions are worthless.

>>97426454
I'm not up to date on 3rd edition rules but 1st edition and 2nd edition of HH had different rules for different terminator armour marks, like the different invul save. It's pretty black and white.

I'd be fine with it if you played with the rules of a worse invul save, since the indomitus lacks the shield generators cataphractii has in lore.

>>97426460
I stopped buying GW ever since femstodes were announced in the Amazon show, I'm 3d printing, recasts and third party now. As already mentioned BL is slop but they never inserted real life politics into the setting until recently which is different to sloppy retcons.

Still waiting for you to tell me what year you joined the hobby, but you won't disclose that.

>>97426469
Each type of terminator armour still has its own distinct rules in 3.0. That is why you can't mix terminator patterns or count one type as another.

Playing siege tyrants with a worse invulnerable save is a terrible idea, they're bad enough as it is.

>>97426477
>BL is slop but they never inserted real life politics into the setting until recently

Damn, the real tourist was you all along.

>>97426481
I accept your concession since you have no arguments. Have a nice day anon!

>>97426478
Then my point still stands ruleswise and lorewise, thanks for the confirmation.

>>97426478
>Playing siege tyrants with a worse invulnerable save is a terrible idea, they're bad enough as it is.
I thought they where decent in 2.0, has 3.0 wrecked them?

>>97426469
>I'd be fine with it if you played with the rules of a worse invul save, since the indomitus lacks the shield generators cataphractii has in lore.
If you could houserule them to be cheaper to accommodate that then they could do something like that.
But in real life I've not met a player that wouldn't accept "yeah these are tyrants, ignore the armour variety on display in that squad". They're proxy's at worst, and most people accept that vs houseruling minor stuff like that.

>>97426216
To answer your actual fucking question instead of bitching about a completely separate issue. Maybe you could do some headswaps to make them look less samey? Looks like the kit has two mirrored chests that could stand out. So add in an bare headed guy or two and that should be fine. When painted they will probably look super busy so going overboard might just make them look worse.

>>97426423
You can like the models whilst hating the lore change anon.

>>97426486
>Gets exposed for the disingenuous tourist he is
>Claims victory and flees the scene

What a clown.

>>97426507
The main problem for siege tyrants in 3.0 is that they pay a high point cost for being a TAC unit and one of the two remaining units with Ignores Cover shooting. On paper they look alright:
>High volume shots that'll kill infantry through sheer weight of fire
>High strength shots to kill light to medium tanks
>Power fists so no slough in melee
>2+/4++ saves
But their point cost being so high means that unless tyrants get to do all those things preferable every player turn they'll never earn their value.

>>97423873
Oh aye, reading while driving to work will totally end will.

How can one make Siege of Terra/Scouring-era Marines look more acceptable in HH?
I know you swap the storm bolter for a Combi-bolter on the Indomitus Terminator Armour, scrape off prayer scrolls and purity seals from normal MK7 Marines, obviously remove any words or titles listing achievements earned in 40k battles like on the Venerable Boxnought.
Anything else?

>>97426521
I play them because I like them and they're cool.
But oof that does sound kinda ass, unfortunate.
>for being a TAC unit
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a TAC unit?

>>97426558
The mix of 30k armour tones them down enough. Its the difference between them being a scouring era force and a badab war era force.
just be more sparing with how you mix in mk7 and don't have it be the main thing in your army. mk7 has also been retconned to be part of the heresy rather than just the siege so you have more wiggle room now than before to use it.

Re:Indomitus Terminator Armour
see>>97426267 that kit is perfect and fairly low effort for how much it makes indomitus armour not look like its been hamfisted in from 40k. Its a Redwarden minis 3d printable kit, just dm him on instagram and get it through dm's.

You can totally do lots of that manually, drill and use bonding studs with ball bearings, sculpt on banding, etc. But its a huge task that I don';t think is worth it when you can get a kit like that printed fairly cheap that's perfect.

>>97426564
Take All Comers. Means the unit can effectively deal with different types of targets, which has become a lot more rare in 3.0.

>>97425973
I won't buy the models because I'm gonna buy leagues of votann and then get curb stomped in tournaments.

>>97426586
Ah gotya. Will keep that in mind.
Looking at havoks do they have much use in 3.0? I build them as missile sowers for 2.0 because lascannon strength missiles sounded fun, but in 3.0 they seam quite mid, if not bad compared to heavy surport squads?

>>97426615
Iron Havocs are the other unit besides siege tyrants that has Ignores Cover. With missile launchers they can delete tactical squads standing in cover near an objective without any chance to roll a save of any kind. Still a little expensive for that, but much less so than siege tyrants.

>>97426630
Got it, nice to know I won't have to build up 10 new arms. Thanks anon :]

>>97426533
This really is the benefit of audiobooks and audio content in general. You can listion when you can't read. Turn the commute, walking, chores, modeling time, etc into reading time.

>>97426018
>This means you can park them on objectives, farm VP,

[laughs in Tactical Status]

>>97426722
>Rolling to remove status effects happens before claiming VP from objectives
>No modifiers outside of Fear possible
>Command cataphractii have Ld 8 CL 8 with +1 CL thanks to being Heavy
Relying only on status effect to stop enemy units from scoring is a very, very bad idea.

>>97426175
1. I'll probably do both.
2. I think they may keep them around for 40k, and they were just pointing out that the new models, while meant for Heresy could also work for 40k as well.

>>97426749
this anon games

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Konrad Clown

>>97426749
even at Ld/Cl9 that's still only 5/6

>>97426844
he does not, he's the same anon who spent all of last edition talking about "fishing for 6s" while crying about how 1W artificer sergeants were ruining the game because they could tank everything indefinitely

>>97426884
Never go to Vegas.

>>97426884
you fucking mathhammerers have never touched dice in your life play one goddamn game I beg of you

>>97426507
they're one of several units that went from too good at several jobs to able to very badly do all jobs. (Grave Warden have the same problem)

It takes probably 10,000 points of siege tyrants to pop one heavy tank, so they're basically only mediocre anti-infantry not actually able to do more than 1 single job.
They're bad at shooting infantry, purely inferior to just buying autocannon terminators that every army in game can field.
Only thing that autocannon terminators lack is good melee, but siege tyrants are terrible in melee with WS4 pitiful number of attacks and striking dead last so all thunderhammers wipe your whole tyrant squad before you get to miss your first inefffectual pfist attempt, so three whole levels of suck. And being cataphractii it's literally impossible to outmaneuver anything with them to make use of the bad melee to try to bully some even-worse-melee unit (if such a thing is possible) - which in addition to no movement, no setup, too expensive to buy a transport for them, also means they aren't allowed to sweeping advance or anything to stop a unit of marines they got lucky and barely beat from simply walking away from the combat to go cap some objective after his army insta-kills the tyrants on his turn.

If they were cheap or a troop choice or any other justification, then having no movement, joke shooting, joke melee would be fine, except they're ruinously expensive at 575 points with no transport, near 1000 with a transport. For a squad that melees like a 200 point squad and shoots like a 300 point unit.

It's fine to use them purely for fashion, but there's no justifying them game-wise.

>>97426469
Ignore that fag, just put Cataphractii arms onto the bodies you have. Call them late heresy models. Especially since they're not representing a regular terminator squad but a unique legion unit type, you're fine, unless you're playing against a cunt.

>>97426860
Is there a single non-retarded primarch? After this and Dorn beating the shit out of Garro for bringing the news of Horus's betrayal...

>>97427424
The two lost ones were pretty based.

>>97427402
Will do! Allready got a soloution for the arms, at a glance they shouldn't read as 40k models at the end of the day anyway :]

>>97427424
Corax seams pretty not retarded. Ditto Gulliman.

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Nu-cata continuing to look worse with every new image.
>It's just the bad paint job!
Old cataphractii looked decent even with sub-par painting. These new ones not so much.

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/qd1nvdss/a-tale-of-four-painters-new-additions-to-the-players-horus-heresy-armies/

>called tale of 4 painters
>they can’t paint

>>97427806
Can you?

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>>97427802

>>97427806
At least they do paint. Unlike most of us motherfuckers in here.

>>97427815
Yes I post my DG regularly, unlike that world eater I know what a fucking wash is

>>97427847
He applied a wash, you can see it in the leg armour

>>97427847
Painting DG doesn't count, you can literally smear shit on them and they'll still look acceptable.

>>97427802
does the kit come with a brazier

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There is no scheme that disgusts me more than world eaters before they became retarded with chaos flavoring.

Well maybe there are imperial fists but thats like saying you hate dogshit, its natural to hate them.

>>97427806
Dunno man there is paint on them, looks fine to me.
Ever seen that ultramarine painting guide from 3ed 40k Space Marines codex ? People nowadays expect everyone to be a fucking picasso.

>>97427904
It works well if you're good at absolutely soaking the pristine white in blood splatters but I definitely couldn't pull it off.

>>97426175
Yes I will certainly play the new models, they look amazing.
I'll see what the female head sculpts look like, because of GW's snotty promotion of them I want to avoid them out of principle, or ill adjust the female heads to look like beautiful men instead.

>>97428132
Knowing GW the female heads will look boyish at be-
>Femboy custodes
Oh. Oh my...

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Adding a 5 man Deathshroud + Praetor to the “got sweeping advanced by immortals and a warmonger” list.

Game itself was a wash for the DG player, Fury of the Ancients does not do well into lists with Grav Shredders and Grav Rapiers in no short supply.

>>97428360
>Fury of the Ancients does not do well into lists with Grav Shredders and Grav Rapiers in no short supply.
Why? They are 2+ save and haywire is gone...
>Sweep
Aaaah, I see. Any modifications you did to your version of 2.0?

>>97427806
I quite like how he looks, actually.

>>97428175
>Femboy custodes
ROPES OF CUM

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>>97427802
...

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>>97427904
Their white + blue scheme is fantastic but it's very easy to do poorly. I think finding the right blue is critical.

>>97428175
They are tall and muscular, anon. So, Ambushes

>>97428495
Brother where is my power fist

>>97427904
I don't understand this. One of the regular assault marines is wielding a disintegrator pistol?

>>97428132
3 of the 6 bodies are explicitly female with different proportions. If it was just a matter of using helmeted heads for them most jimmies would be significantly less rustled by the retcon, but they want to ensure you can't ignore it. If you buy the new models you WILL make ze females.

>>97426521
>>High volume shots that'll kill infantry through sheer weight of fire
That's basically a bunch of bolters. Compare them with their 2.0 version and they're just awful: halved their krak shots, lost pinning on their frag missiles, and their omniscope became a DLC.
To top it all, they're not Vanguard but Support, so they can't hold objectives and without Vanguard they can't storm their either

>>97428360
Nice models anon. Immortals always look sexy

>>97426423
>Why buy miniatures when you disagree with the lore change
Because I can put helmets on them, at which point they are indistinguishable from male custodes. Which I do anyways because I'm shit at painting faces.
Also because the US might be at war with NATO in the future an I need to buy this shit before trade closes off completely.

>>97428652
>he think orangeman will actually do anything that could endanger his Jewish masters

>>97428685
I don't know what the fuck is happening anymore. But I was right about RAM prices skyrocketing, so there's that I guess.

>>97428543
Fisting is 300 thrones.

>>97428685
Israel isn't a NATO member.
>>97428734
I'm glad I bought my RAM upgrade a while back.

>>97428763
Israel is every nato member

>>97426175
I'm curious to see if the new Custodes are AFAB or AMAB that have transitioned at some point across the centuries.

>>97428652
You go to war you put your helmet on, you don't need an excuse

>>97428652
but there's no lore change, the description of Custodes from p139 of the RT book never genders them, it just says that their uniform consists of a bare torso and the homoerotic art and models that were released alongside that fluff happened to be male

there's literally more reason to have big tiddy Custodes in HH3 than there is to have fully armoured Custodes in any edition if you're serious about the lore

wars are expensive, expensive means tax, Thiel and the makeup guy that keeps pushing Greenland won't go for it
in the long term however it does mean a post-Soviet style impossible upkeep of fleets and payment of idle troops who have nowhere overseas to deploy to, and nobody's going to be buying Patriots or HIMARS or Tomahawks in future
that'll fuck ya pretty bad, then it'll flip you over and fuck you again

>>97427806
Whats wrong with that? Or rather "this is flawed/not particularly high quality in a way which is entirely comparable to the average paint job, and is entirely appropriate for the layman hobbyist"

>>97427904
It looks like shit because it's painted like shit. It's hard to do a good white armor that does not look like it's shiny new and going in it's first battle

Any advice for fighting Mechanicum? Should you focus down the thallax or focus on clearing out the comptroller mech-blobs? Im guessing Archmagi are too tough to do anything to.

>>97427806
I think they would benefit greatly from some sponge chipping and some tastefull blood, but the paintjob itself is completely fine.
This is nit picking of the highest degree to the point of bad faith.

>>97427847
>Yes I post my DG regularly, unlike that world eater I know what a fucking wash is
They've absolutely used a wash. If they're going for a clean look then they've probably just used a lighter "marine juice" style one just to panel line everything.

Not everything has to be heavily washed to be washed, its job is to provide recess shading easily at the minimum, if they didn't use it the models would look mega flat.

>>97428096
If you can get a smooth white basecoat you are 90% of the way there. pick out the trim and blue bits, wash to your preference, and sponge chip is a fairly easy process, its just the white that is the hard bit.

>>97428957
I'd say they look better than the average army (which is a half painted grey horde or newbie unthineed paintjob). They look good.

>>97428963
Whats actually bad about it anon? If they wanted new and shiny thats a perfectly fine thing to do with your models. Dunk yours in a dip wash for all we care.

>>97427904
I think these look really good?

>>97427806
Showcasing how a model might ACTUALLY look after the average person paints it is good advertising IMO. Better than modern EM where they do shit like edge highlight every side of a fucking finger joint.

>>97428983
>I'd say they look better than the average army
I think if you add the caveat of "Painted army" they become more or less average. But I agree, they look perfectly fine and I think an army of them on the board would look rather nice.

>>97428983
>Whats actually bad about it anon? If they wanted new and shiny thats a perfectly fine thing to do with your models. Dunk yours in a dip wash for all we care.
Yesy ofc. I missed to mention that I think a marine in a setting like HH must be worn out, dirty and damaged from constant fightning. Seeing a super clean marine makes a big meh in my mind

>>97429160
>Yesy ofc. I missed to mention that I think a marine in a setting like HH must be worn out, dirty and damaged from constant fightning. Seeing a super clean marine makes a big meh in my mind
Thats fine, thats also how I like my guys to.
But is that an objectively bad paintjob, or just your personal preference?

Theres plenty of ways to justify it to. Early heresy, a new force with new fresh, or maintained armour, being portrayed at the start of the battle, etc.

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>>97428983
>I think they would benefit greatly from some sponge chipping and some tastefull blood, but the paintjob itself is completely fine.
Ignore the DW pad, but this is the kind of sponge chipping that's super easy and quick to do, especially across a whole squad where you can just focus on areas of wear and get the overall effect looking good.

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Can anyone tell me how would the TS Sekhmet bits would look with the new Catapgractii models?
also, it seems bit weird to me that they still sell the old cataphractii along the TS bits.

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>>97429575
Literally just did this swap with the new box and the old kit myself. Fits perfect except for the hands as the old hands are much bigger than the new ones.So you have to cut and pin the swords in place.

>>97428635
Many thanks, anon.

>>97428432
Not for this one. It was his first game of 2.0 (and Heresy) in like a year so we kept it by the book.

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I'm trying to wrack my brain coming up with a custom scenario to play with my buddy. I'm thinking of a rescue scenario saving a group of secutarii pulling a princps from a wreck since that would let me actually play with my secutarii.
I knew I should have bought that triaros when it came out...

>>97428432
NTA, but my group came up with a modification to sweeping we're pretty happy with for our modded 2.0

Basically, all goes the same until the contested roll off. If the losing unit fails, they fall back 1d6", but the winners get to follow, and instead of getting swept, they take wounds equal to how bad they failed the initial leadership, no saves, no FNPs, just damage. (So if they lost by a lot, they get more swept. If they just lost, less swept). If the losing unit survives, they remain in combat, if not, the winner gets to consolidate.

>>97429772
-> >>97426209
Rescue [Guy] from [Place]

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>>97429849
Lmao. That obvious, huh?

>>97429870
There is that. But also, back in the day I played 2.0 but spiced it with Istvaan 3's mysterious terrain rules, which were still compatible.
Ruins could be disused chaos fanes, forests could turn out to be columns from destroyed buildings, or piles of corpses. But one of those forests got a forest fire and blocked visibility.
Most noticeably, we used Mysterious Water for craters (it pooled there). It turned out to be rad runoff, which caused -1T

>>97429870
Or you could grab HH4 and play the Courier mission (mobile VP with extra rules), or the Siege mission (VP in building with extra rules).
There's also one where the attacker tries to burn the city down, and the other side has to stop them

>>97429949
>There's also one where the attacker tries to burn the city down, and the other side has to stop them
Sounds like some Titanicus buisness

>crusade detachment
>High command
Praetor (jump pack, axe, shotgun)[162 Point(s)]:
>command
Centurion [110 Point(s)]
Centurion in Terminator Armour (axe, combi grav)[110 Point(s)]:
Tartaros Centurion (axe) [10 Point(s)] <prime benefit: atramentar>
Vigilator [95 Point(s)]
>troops
Tactical Squad, Vox [110 Point(s)]:
Tactical Squad, Vox [110 Point(s)]:
Tactical Squad, Vox [110 Point(s)]:
Terror Squad(hammer on sarge, 7 glaives, flamer, rotor cannon) [265 Point(s)]: <prime benefit: logistics>
>transport
Rhino (havoc) [70 Point(s)]
Rhino (havoc) [70 Point(s)]
>armor
Kratos Assault Tank (melta, lascannons, locus) [400 Point(s)]

>support detachment
Rapier Battery [80 Point(s)]: 2x Rapier Crew [40 Point(s)]
Rapier Battery [80 Point(s)]: 2x Rapier Crew [40 Point(s)]

>support detachment
Las destroyer Rapier Battery [130 Point(s)]: 2x Rapier Crew [65 Point(s)]
Las destroyer Rapier Battery [130 Point(s)]: 2x Rapier Crew [65 Point(s)]

>fast attack detachment
Night Raptor Squad (5 hammer, 5 claws, 1 flamer) [405 Point(s)]:

>apex detachment
Contekar Terminator Squad (claw) [235 Point(s)]: <prime benefit: master sgt>
Seeker Squad (5 dudes) [105 Point(s)]:
Veteran Tactical Squad (hammer on sarge, 8 volkite chargers, 1 rotor cannon, 1 flamer, vox) [216 Point(s)]:


How does this look for a list? Going to be playing vs admech. I would have normally taken more seekers but the group has limited them to 5 per army max. Contekar and centurion will probably DS in, although I could maybe just footslog them?

>>97430018
Whoops, one too many terminator centurions there.

>>97429613
Yeah, I think it looks great! Thanks.
I was afraid that it looked disproportionally small, but I can be rest assured.
Shame about the hand though, wouldn't really like to try and pin the khopesh

>>97429613
Damn. Putting an old-phractii W I D E chest plate and larger gauntlets on the nu-cata actually kind of fixes them.

>>97430022
ILLEGAL LIST! RULES LAWYERS, CRUSH HIS BALLS!

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while we're somewhat on the topic of WE, I'll share my recently finished veteran breachers with Delvarus to accompany them

post models frens

>>97430259
fuck thats sexy

>>97430259
Fantastic work. The shading and weathering is great!
And man, I love the old resin boys.

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>>97427904
the only way heresy world eaters work is if you avoid 99% of big red/green. They instantly make the models absolutely disgusting dogshit painted by retards who no artistic talent.

If a model is 50% warm colors and 50% cold colors, it's constantly vomit-inducing because you're constantly feeling "is this a warm model someone spilled cold onto or a cold model someone spilled hot onto?" it's instantly unnatural and ugly.
While if the model is 90% cold with a 10% splash of warm, then it's like "oh that's a little refreshing change of pace to my cool model"

>>97428531
example of tolerable WE. On value side, 80% monotone, 20% colors.
On temperature side, 90% cool, 10% warm.

Your brain immediately recognizes the elements that won. White wins over colors. Blue wins over red/yellow/green. There's no question or clashing, it's all a settled question to your brain. The weapons are not gleaming red so your vision is allowed to properly just rest on the white helmets and facial emotions rather than having to bounce your eyes back and forth non-stop and missing the head entirely in the first image.

The darker blue and the dirtier weathered white and dirtied gold all serve to say "we're not actually eye-hurtingly-bright, we're all calm and chill here" (yes, the old WE scheme is ironic. But ironic and good-looking is always better than "I intentionally made this chaotic and fucking ugly hurting your eyes on purpose"

Blood stains and dark-leather-red cataphractii flaps are toned down and small enough they don't clash, they immediately submit to your real colors.

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>>97430803
only a little hint of red, unlike in
>>97427904
where it looks like they're holding a big red crayola crayon in their hands instead of a weapon

>>97430259
Dope
>>97430803
Mucho texto

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Terror squad almost done, ready to die miserably given theyre freshly painted models.

Could one of the Missing Primarchs have been removed for embracing Genestealerism and allowing his legion to be infected by the Genestealers?

>>97431323
No, because the tyranids don't arrive until M41, earliest m34 vanguard organisms if you believe disputed reports (read: retcons)

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>>97430803
I'm pretty sure it's just that the models are unfinished. That white armor is just white+recess wash. The guns are just boltgun+nuln oil, the red is just slapped on there along the gold, and the base is uninspired. There's no pouches or grenades or holsters, the power cables aren't painted a separate color the cable on the power axes aren't painted. There's no need to wax poetic about color theory the models are simply incomplete.

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Look at the difference in hand size.

>>97431462
>lore-accurate
>3 colors
>bases done
>"erm ackshually they're not good enough!"
Post your squads

>>97431576
>Using a power armour hand on a terminator
Yikes.

>>97432644
>Using a power armour hand on a terminator
oh no, he doesn't know

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>>97432644
Who's ready for a wing?

>>97426175
1. I will not give GW more money until they remove femstodes from all products and media
2 I want them to discontinue the new figures.

>>97432659
>>97432665
The new cata are wearing power armour, NOT terminator armour.

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>>97430024
>>97430039
Cheers lads, yeah older torsos fixes them so much!

>>97429613
Why did you cut the weapon instead of just putting hand on that arm?

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>>97432849
Hands on the new termies are half the size of the old ones, much more effecient to just cut and pin the weapon on the new ones.

Dead AF thread.
Dead AF game.

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>>97433326
Just like the good old days. Glad the trolls and tourists have finally lost interest and moved on. Now we can finally enjoy comfy threads again, with anons posting their painting progress and battle reports, with some niche rules or meta discussions on the side.

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How are tzeentch demons in 3.0?

>>97433374
Aggressively mediocre. The ruinstorm deamons list got seriously dressed down in preparation for paid DLC adding back flavour and options, so it's already hard to make anything resembling tzeentch daemons with the current rules.

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Didn't realize the TRVE SONS were in Horus Heresy. I thought they were a 40k (37k) thing.

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>>97433407
If you're interested in them then do yourself a favor and read this.

>>97433437
how can I read a JPG?

>>97433374
daemons basically dont exist in 3rd. Their rules are less fleshed out than an orcs or beastmen militia list.

>>97433446
easilly you click on it and there is text on it. Use your eyes.
Also you might wish to look into a previous thread.

>>97433447
HH has orks?

>>97428950
>literally every depiction since their exception was explicitly male
It's amazing how literally every single artist, writer, rules writer, and fan except one recent author for *40 years* all somehow managed to believe Custodes were male - even to the point that when they got their first major fluff expansion in the Visions books the company went to the trouble of inventing the Sisters of Silence so the Emperor's personal guard wouldn't be a total sausagefest - and yet "there's no lore change".

I don't know if you're genuinely retarded enough to sincerely believe this or just a gaslighting fudgepacker but either way, kindly terminate your existence forthwith.

Has anyone tried breacher with chainswords? I know they're only available on the veteran squad, but I've always wondered if the base ones would be wildly off if they got them too.

>>97433517
it's zero effort to build an ork army like ullanor using the militia-custom-unit-builder. Militia lets you pick what stats you want units to have, strength, toughness, melee weapons, bonuses on charging. Multiple size units possible, basic ork warrior types, ogryns tweaked with special rules into Mega Nobz. It's even possible to have Endless Horde 4+, give many orks Expendable(1) and bring any dead Infantry Troop and Levy Troop units back half the time as a new unit in reserves. Feral Warrior gives +1WS on the charge (so orks are unskilled but good during the WAAGH rushes) They represent orks 100x more faithfully than the fake daemon rules in 3rd edition represent daemons

>>97433632
you could probably make a more realistic daemon army by using the militia rules to create your daemonettes/bloodletters/plaguebearers and other daemons, and only allying in the bloodthirster or characters. That's how bad they were done.

>>97433623
No one ever tried. There never was a reason to. In older editions boarding shields prevented models from getting +1 attack for having 2 close combat weapons, so breachers were stuck with only having a single attack. Even when chainswords actually did something for once in 2.0 re-rolling failed to wound rolls with 1 attack isn't even worth the effort of sourcing chainsword bits. Breachers have never been a melee unit.

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I’m new and want a Raven Guard army. Is now a good time?

>>97433647
Fafnir Rann had two axes and a boarding shield. Very cool model, sadly impossible to buy in modern day Poland.

>>97433647
except the named ones. Suzerains somehow getting 4 attacks each because axe+bolt pistol+shield and their shield isn't a boarding shield and only bans using a two-handed weapon not using the pistol and axe together.

>>97433663
That depends. To paint? Sure. And some models are even fun. If it is to game, then you kind of a have to play the exact same list everyone else plays, and other armies will be better at it.

>>97433665
Just get it from a decent recaster. Or does Poland not allow packages from China or something?

>>97433663
Definitely. Try finding the local HH playing community if you want to play. In the current edition basically every unit and options is functional at least, most are actually quite decent, so it's hard to pick something wrong.

>>97433675
>you kind of a have to play the exact same list everyone else plays
This is simply not true. Legion traits no longer have such huge impact that some legions have no chance to win against the top tier legions. Actually adopting your tactics in the game has become more important, the game is no longer won or lost at the list building stage. Though it is unsurprising that players have been unable to wrap their head around this; people have continued to use the 10 man terminator deathstar in spartan for 3 editions straight now, regardless of how often it is proven to be an actual handicap against any remotely competent player And warhammer in general having been a pay-to-win-at-listbuilding game for decades

>>97433672
None of those units are using chainswords instead of stronger melee weapons though.

>>97433710
you show me the list that doesn't run 40 tacticals, 2 rhinos, 2 land raiders, 2 "assault" units, kratos etc.

do people actually like super heavies?

>>97433779
for their looks.

>>97433727
Do Immortals have chainswords or anything?
Otherwise I think only Veteran breachers yeah. I'm glad for those "new" veteran flavors.

>>97433647
Except for the cutters

>>97433796
immortals could take chainswords in 2nd edition but in 3rd they're just for shooting grav guns and las cutters (and for cutting up tanks in melee with the cutters)

>>97433779
No. They're almost entirely stupid looking bad designs for tanks, and they're ridiculously overpriced in dollars and game points, and they're immediately too large to properly work on boards unless you ruin the terrain layouts of boards to leave huge spaces all over. Fortunately, they all suck as well, so no incentive to be forced to use them.

>>97433665
it's literally on the polish webstore you absolute faggot

>>97433768
Could show you numerous. Locally everybody plays an almost completely different army. There's rhino rush supported by bikes WS, footslogging infantry supported by artillery and tanks DG, jump pack infantry and terminators BA, large infantry blobs and dreadnoughts DA...
Stopped using tacticals entirely myself, prefer elite units with Line 1 now. Having more resilient that can actually stay on objectives is more useful than tacticals who're lucky if they don't die before even making it to one. Even command squads can out-score tactical squads over the duration of a game, scoring over several turns nets more VP than scoring once with Line 2.

Your post does highlight exactly what I meant though. Most HH players still copy whatever netlist is currently the most well known. Even when, for example, that list gets completely dismantled turn one by somebody playing rhino rush and bikes WS turn 1 the rhinos and tacticals within them get jumped by all the fast units and never get a chance to score VP, and the kratos is just ignore as there is no expensive tank that has to fear it The meta never actually develops, because they all are stuck in the listbuilding meta mindset, do not seem to learn from playing, or even consider trying something different. They all just copy what everybody thinks is good, without understanding why or if it is actually good.

>>97433553
anon all I'm saying is the original fluff doesn't gender them and they're supposed to be topless you big giant homo

>>97433902
>large infantry blobs and dreadnoughts DA...
Okay this one is weird. How succesfull is he ?

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What do you reckon, can the new Raptors kit be used in any meaningful way in Horus Heresy? I like the helmets.

>>97434003
Decent win rate. Dual plasma cannons on dread are kind of insane, and boxnoughts in general are honestly too cheap for their firepower and durability. But it's balanced out by 20 man squads of troops suffering heavily from how good blasts are now, and tacticals and despoilers having lost heart of the legion.

>>97434021
I'm using them for my word bearers Praetorian command squad with TLC accompanying my master of descent

>>97434021
The Nemesis Claw sprue is already the Night Lords upgrade sprue

>>97434032
Just space out bro lol. Fr nobody spaces, models are all bunched up. Getting everyone into range is so much easier that way

>>97434049
There is not enough room on the board to space out 60+ infantry at 2" and still have room for everything to manoeuvre and effectively engage enemy units. And large blasts are still gonna hit 3 or more models.

>>97434080
Oh the phone ate the part where I said I didn't space myself. But a large blast hitting only 3 models feels like a win for spacing. I'd expect 3 hits from a small blast, a very real possibility

>>97434107
Phoneposting is looked down upon for a reason, lol. Three models is the absolute ideal scenario, where the unit is daisy chained across the table. In practise 5 or more hits on infantry with 32mm bases are more likely.

>>97434049
getting rid of templates is the only change nu40k got correct. Having to spread out models simply slows the game down massively, makes it less cinematic not being able to have fists full of marines charging down streets, leads to arguments how many models are touched by templates, slows games down with need to do scatter dice and argue about if it scattered 23 degrees or 25 degrees from the point of impact and it's yet another thing that further encourages only using bland ultra-elite terminator blobs all the time with double-benefits of broken WS system, overpriced transport slot costs for dirt cheap models (being able to fit 5 super-terms in a 265 landraider vs needing to pay +400 to put 10 budget shit terms in a landraider) and not receiving twice as much damage from template spam for same points cost.

It's especially stupid and out-of-place with nu30k's not-true-LoS system where you see one single sliver of one model 24" away with a 24" gun and you're allowed to place the blast template 30" away behind the building touching 6 enemy models, all who were out of range of the weapon and not visible. Their fake excuse "well he'd wait to shoot until the best moment" (which doesn't let something shoot out of sight) is instantly incongruent with a ruleset which also doesn't assume the enemy models see a flamethrower and naturally spread out as much as possible when it starts to attack them. Your models are assumed to be immobile in perfect formation helping themselves die as easily as possible, but the enemy get some sort of time travel gimmicks for their attacks and spacial distortion with the ability to bend shots around corners. (Tanks are even allowed to place shots entirely out of the gun's firing arc, literally beyond where the gun can even rotate, just by getting vision of a single enemy model in the firing arc)

>>97434032
>But it's balanced out by 20 man squads of troops suffering heavily from how good blasts are now, and tacticals and despoilers having lost heart of the legion.
I mean he can spread them out he has like 6 slots for that.

>>97434152
I don't think you know how the rules work, for like any edition of HH actually lmao. Blast weapons have always been allowed to scatter out of range, and kill models outside of max range and outside of LOS.

Go back to the shithole that is /40kg/ where you belong, tourist.

>>97434152
anon I don't know if you'll ever be shot at and I really hope you won't but uh projectiles don't immediately lose their energy at their theoretical ideal range nor do they completely lose their energy simply because they bounced off something else on their way to you, and that's something everybody who gets shot at needs to understand if they wish to survive

since war in the main is about the transfer of energy from one to another and since HE makes kinetic energy look like mickey mouse at a rat trapper's convention even though it's usually delivered by KE, it would actually be far less realistic to limit scatter to line of sight or to remove blasts entirely and replace them with a los-based shooting system

throwing that wooden table up, closing the elevator doors or hiding behind that car door? also bad ideas for dealing with KE, never mind HE

>>97428531
Source for the pic? Would like to know what blues are used.

>>97434152
Hey, you're adding to blasts the entirely separate issue of 3.0's line of sight, which nobody likes.
Though I must admit it achieves the goal of Edition Simplicity, I say let wasted shots be wasted. And also let casualties be closest models first, while we're at it lol

>>97428810
kek
no lie detected

>>97434269
It's a step up from true line of sight at least, absolutely hate that with a passion.

>>97434269
it's tightly tied to blasts because you're forced to spread out even when 99% of your unit is behind a building out of sight and out of weapon range and out of tank firing arc.

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>>97430803
I like this explanation for why the prominent red makes these so unpleasant to look at. What's a good alternative color for early heresy World Eaters capes and helmet crests? Any examples of these done well?

>>97434362
it'd help to go to darker brownish dried blood color for your maroons, and de-emphasizing them with an oil wash (black or dark brown) so they exist but dont overpower the face

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>>97434459
can be slightly more red than this without issue but you can tell its not crayon red so the term gets focus not his dress

>>97434352
No it is not, because as said before blasts have always been able to kill models out of LOS etc. in older editions. Seriously, have you ever even seen a game of HH being played?

Your example scenario was in fact worse in previous editions, because no matter how much you bunched up behind a terrain piece there was almost always a tiny crack or something through which a blast weapon could shoot because true line of sight "rules" just allowed bullshit like that.

>>97430259
Very nice, very kino

Spreading out vs blasts does kinda suck, but its not always realistic. A unit spread out to the maximum 2" or 3" coherency will take up an insane amount of space and have range difficulties a lot of the time, its going to be inconvenient to maneuver and really unwieldy in larger games.

Blasts do have difficulties, but the emergent gameplay is absolutely worth it. The natural movement of units creating target rich zones, or units clumping up for one reason or another only to be punished for it are all really fun moments that simply do not replicate with "d6 +1 per 5 models in enemy unit"

>>97434561
Also can't represent high explosive weapons scattering onto friendly troops by accident with the bland and boring "D6 shots +1 per 5"

>>97434580
Yup. Or the counter of "my opponent has clumped up so hard I basically cant miss, I am firing into a veritable sea of models"

Blasts are sometimes inconvenient, and can tend a bit weak/strong depending on the circumstances, but they simply enable a lot of fun moments of gameplay or emergent narrative which cant be done without them and their pseudo-simulationist elements.

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>>97434469
But can it sport weapons in bright heraldic colors and power fists in ye olde Early 40k? Idk if that's what things looked like in the Rogue Trader era

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>>97427175
I somehow still believe in Grave Wardens, weird spot as king of manlets as they are. No hammers, no WS5, but 3A in the Heavy Assault slot, even if it is power fists. They're like assault Siege Termies.
Tyrants don't have that. Just let their missile launchers shoot two shots like they did before and that's it.
You know, like Fulmentarii do it?

Feels so bad that Tyrants were fine in 2E, and they mega suck in 3E

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>>97434362
I did purple / magenta for my loyalist praetors recently, but I also agree with anon here >>97434459 dark / cool reds and maroons work well I think, same for dark browns and purple browns.

>>97435051
Tiny Hands McGee.

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>>97435065
I think they match the original bits.

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>>97430259
Lovely anon, very muted, very demure.

I havent fully painted anything in 2026 yet but got another game in yesterday with my WS vs DA. Was an intro game for the other lad and we had a blast, very close scoring all the way to the wire.

>>97435117
But the bodies are larger now

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>>97435347
It's not even that new HH marines are taller, but the praetor models are primaris sized and the axe one has extra bulky armour bits, making the smaller hands look even smaller. But a HH model having cartoonish vambraces that make their hands look tiny isn't a new thing...

>>97435375
Pic unrelated?

Anyone tried veteran breachers out? What power weapons should they have? Personally im leaning either towards spears or axes (largely for aesthetic reasons).

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Damn, those indomitus termies are too fucking big.

>>97435375
God I want more heavy weapon options on terminators

>>97435651
Fuck it, I like the new cataphractii. I like that they look like a person wearing armor, and not a giant toaster box with legs and arms.

>>97435741
Can I interest you in some Saturnine terminators?

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>>97435754

>>97435815
No

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>>97435651
Power gauntlets that are actually big, pauldrons that aren't as wide as wings. That's about it

Why are there no colonels?

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Another 2.0 game vs Alpha Legion today. Another big win for the IH, 7-0.

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>>97435905
Some of the smaller legions could probably get away with a loose command structure due to their size, but the huge fucks like Ultramarines absolutely should have a full rank structure all the way up to General.

Companies are led by captains and majors, a chapter master would be the equivalent of a Colonel or Brigadier General, and then there should be Major/Lieutenant Generals to command groups of chapters and then finally full Generals to command the...groups of-groups of chapters (Space Marine...Divisions?)

For everything above a chapter commander, it seems like the answer is just "Praetor."

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>>97435922
No sweeps this time but fended off 5 Learneans and 10 Cataphractii all on my lonesome.

>>97435922
>static grass and flowers Alpha Legion
Unreasonably based

>>97435905
>>97435924
because it's structured according to de re militari, which is a bad thing to use as a guide to the Roman military in the first place, and "Krom" (aka Oliver Cromwell)'s "New Model" (army) which... is basically several kinds of mounted or fast-moving troops, lots of guns and (eventually) a professional soldiering class (which Rome also had at various times)

but it's loosely based on those things (as interpreted after 28000 years of history), so you have chaplains as military commanders (NMA), centurions, praetors (Rome) etc; a lot of ranks from Rome aren't covered (like buglers and other musicians) because they're the greatest loss to Warhammer ever and this game used to be cool back when my balls were still bigger than my prostate, and a lot of staff ranks aren't covered at all (which is often the case in write-ups of Rome and the NMA), and a lot of role-specific ranks are rolled into one name across different parts of the Legion

top down it goes

Primarch
Praetorate (Praetors as a whole - senior staff officers, including presumably other ranks)
Consuls and non-Astartes advisors, "Castellans of Domain" which could be anything from an IF Castellan to an UM Tetrarch or a civilian, non-marine
Vexillarius (standard bearers, subalterns - lower grades of officer, equerries - personal assistants to senior officers)
Honour Guard (various)

and then it's Chapter structure below that, which is two battalions under a secondary command structure like the Legion one given above, with a Lt Commander leading each battalion, consuls below them, vexillarius, bodyguard - a third layer of the same structures, in effect - and down to Company level we have the Centurion, company standard, company bodyguard, lieutenants (decurions, optae etc) and individual squads with designated squad leaders and (not noted in the principia graphic, but present in 40k since the earliest days) squad second in command

in other words they have all the ranks they need

>>97436114
I think they should break praetors up the way they broke centurions, consuls and optae up.

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I thought it was funny.

>>97436114
>a lot of ranks from Rome aren't covered (like buglers and other musicians) because they're the greatest loss to Warhammer ever and this game used to be cool
If you have something to say about that, I'm all ears to it. Those things sound like essentially the Masters of Signals of that time. Which were also what vexillas were actually for, right?

>>97436216
Break them into what? Alas, the way 2.0 characters were like, it seemed that many special characters were regular Consuls but elevated to Praetorhood. So, Exalted Consuls, basically.
Idk if it could be viable to pay something (a Prime) to make the consul a High Command choice. Like have the Special Assignment unlock an Apex at the cost of said model no longer unlocking an Aux detachment.

>>97436303
I laughed

>>97436389
Like who? The only special character consuls I can think of are just Remus and Maloghurst, both heralds. Everyone else is just a fancy praetor, although I guess amon is technically a pathfinder-praetor.

>>97427904
lets see your army then

>>97436389
Having exactly one rank for everything between a 100 man company and a 50,000 man demi-legion leaves a lot of room for nuance and specializations.

>>97436426
NTA, but half of them are just champions.
Narik Dreygur is a Forge Lord.
Kyr Vhalen is a Forge Lord.
Zephon's at least half Moritat
Autek Mor is sort of a Forge Lord.
Gahlan Surlak is considered a Primus Medicae.
Remus, as you said, is a herald.
Crysos Morturg is just missing chainfire from the Moritat list.
Durak Rask is considered a siege breaker.
Ahriman and Amon are arguably a Librarians, as are all TS.
High Chaplain Erebus... well...
Lord Chaplain Nomus Rhy'tan...
Xiaphus Jurr is basically a Chaplain. Also a little bit Librarian.
Alvarex Maun was the ur master of descent, until his rules got genericised in 3.0
Kaedex Nex is sorta the original Moritat.
Exodus (though not actually unique) is a Vigilator++

>>97436426
In 2.0, anon. Lucius was a Champion with MotL. Duram Rask was a Siege Breaker with MotL. I think Erebus was a chaplain with MotL? I'm certain Nomus Rhytan was.

>>97436426
Remus is a Centurion by role, he just has a big bosspole :)

Crohne and Zephon are Centurions, Polux is a Centurion, Geigor is a Centurion, Hibou is a Centurion, Tybalt or Aximand got promoted from Centurion between editions I forget which

basically Officer of the Line (2) without Master of the Legion makes them Centurions

Why does the Night Lords Leviathan have little cards nailed to it?

>>97436911
The cards weren't magnetized, so nails it is

>>97436810
Bullshit Zephon wasn't a centurion. He had two special 3-shot pistols so he didn't have Chain Fire itself, because Chain Fire blocked charging

>>97425973
Think they'll ever do xenos for LIgma?

>>97437000
Come back in 10 years.

>>97437011
:(

I should paint up my cerberus

Sup guys. I got the 2 Battle Group boxes, and a few other things, and finally want to get around to making an army. I settled on Space Wolves for a number of reasons, but mostly I like their 30k scheme and the idea of having line troops with shields and axes.


I got 50 bodies total of MKII and MKIII armor. I was thinking:

20 Grey Slayers
20 Tacticals or 10 Tacticals/10 Breachers
10 Heavy Support (Got some old 30k lascannons from ebay a decade ago [probably recasts] for heavy support).

1 Praetor
1 Caster or Runes
1 Land Raider Proteus
1 Old 40k Land Raider Redeemer/Crusader
3 or 4 old 40k Rhinos
12 of the new Cataphractii
1 Melee Leviathan
1 Anvilus Deredeo Dreadnought

All of this should be somewhere between 2 to 2.5K, though I don't have to use all of it. What else should I consider getting in the future to make this a somewhat functional list? Probably will need a Centurion or some other command to even fit half of this.

Feels lacking in anti-tank so far to me. Would getting lascannon for the Deredeo help? Should probably grab a gun for the Leviathan too. Not married to Heavy Support with lascannons either if they are horrible inefficient, as often seems to be the case with this type of unit, but I have the bits on hand. Any tanks that work well in anti-tank? I'd love an excuse to get a Kratos eventually. Would a Spartan make more sense compared to two Land Raiders? In a perfect world I'd get a Spartan and 12 more Cataphractii.

Will gladly take any advice.

>>97437029
Land raider redeemer and crusader didn't exist during the Horus Heresy anon. So you can't use that, unless you can find somewhere to get lascannon sponsons from and build it as a regular land raider.

>>97437048
Thanks, I didn't realize that. I looked it up and missed that the Bolter/Flamer options are for the front of the hull and it always comes with Lascannon sponsons. Guess I gotta find bits I can magnetize as well.

>>97437219
Maybe you could get the proper weapons printed, if you know someone or somewhere that does 3D printing

>>97437048
>>97437219
You could use Multi-meltas and Volkite culverins as sponson weapons (Land Raider Achilles)...but you'd need something to count as a foreard hull Thudd Gun. Maybe a Whirlwind's launcher, like the Land Raider helios does
Unless you count Spartans as land raiders: those can effectively have Heavy Bolter rapiers and Laser Destroyer Rapiers as sponsons

>>97437229
Yea, I was just looking on etsy and not really liking the price to resin used ration I'm seeing. I'll find a stl and do a custom order with this one guy I've used in the past. Prints for reasonable price whatever you find. hog3d if anyone is looking for someone to print stuff for you in the states.

Such is the fate of those who do not have the conditions to get a 3d printer.

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>spend too much money on buying presents for my buddies that I can't give my buddy titanicus presents to sucker him into playing

do old resin upgrade options still owrk on nu terminators?

>>97437535
One anon posted pics of the TS sekhmet resin parts on the new cataphractii, so at least some of them will work.
Having an old style cataphractii chest made the new model look much better to be honest.

>>97435754
So you like them because they're a poor execution of the concept?

>>97435754
That just means you don't like terminators.

>>97435651
It looks like up-armored tartaros

>>97437932
It kind of a does, doesn't it?

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>>97436426
Corswain is a Paladin of Hecatonistica. In fact he is The Paladin, he is him, he always has been him .

>>97438443
>Corswain is a Paladin of Hecatonistica
I'm not sure that's the case. He's called a Paladin of the Ninth Order, but I think ADB just used Order as synonym for Chapter. Obviously that doesn't fit well with Crusade and its recodification of the legion's organizational structure.

As an aside, both Corswain's model and the idea that he was openly a member of the Hekatonystika annoys me. His fluff spells out that he was a neutral observer of the legion's internal factions, to the point where his whole armor was covered in robes to conceal any elements that could hint at his affiliation with any one group. This was specifically so he could serve as a mediator between the factions. Ornamented armor and associative titles run counter to the basic premise of the character.

>>97437535
just buy prints

>>97438443
>tfw no Luther rules

>>97435754
Your opinion is garbage.

>>97438722
I'm honestly a little surprised there has never been a RoW or warlord trait to represent Luther's dudes.

>>97435834
the gauntlet and arms look like temu designs

>>97438800
Indeed, what a shame.

>>97435754
Thats the thing though, terminators ARE big toaster boxes. Theyre a dude wearing a fridge, and have rules that represent that. Cataphractii should look unwieldy and cumbersome, because thats exactly what they are.

The new, sleeker and slimmer armor? It looks like an up-armored marine, and subsequently it doesent sell the slowness OR the durability. Remove the shoulders and it looks like some extra plates on power armor.

>>97436911
Those are Nostroman tarot cards. Contekar also have them. Theyre ritual items the NL would have about themselves (or on their armor), whether because they genuinely believed that shit or because its an ironic bit.
For all their fedora tipping the NL had their own superstitions and mysticism. Some were genuine fatalists, others adopted the aesthetic because its scary to think the guy trying to kill you knows black magic.

Its like an african gang having voodoo aesthetics, some might be really into the black magic stuff but others think it just looks spooky.

>>97435754
That's because you're a tasteless faggot. Terminators are not made for comfortable movement. They're made to be so thick in 360 degree coverage that they can very clumsily walk around even near a ship's plasma reactor, high gravity or extreme caustic chemical environments or to be able to walk into a hail of hundreds of powerful heavy weapon impacts, various settings that a suit made for comfort, speed and movement would not be able to keep the person inside alive.

Terminator armor is not supposed to be "power armor but simply more powerful". The entire point of it is it comes with big trade-offs and disadvantages, but the advantages of its bulk make it valuable for each legion to keep a Fraction of its members ready to utilize them in the situations the disadvantages don't outweigh the benefits.

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>You don't understand! My planet had CRIME! You don't know the horrors of back alley murder and daylight robbery! Pedestrian crossings were redefined as interchanges, we had to jaywalk just to live!

>>97439000
Entirely reasonable reaction to growing up in space mexico.

>>97436928
he is a Centurion, look at his rules

>>97435754
>I like that the guys who are supposed to look like a giant toaster box with legs and arms don't look like a giant toaster box with legs and arms
Apocalyptically shit take and part of the reason heresy is going to shit.

>>97438944
>The entire point of it is it comes with big trade-offs and disadvantages,
Unless its tartaros armor lmao.

>>97439000
Yes, unlike most other primarch homeworlds, the issue with nostromo was nothing more or less than human evil. It was a resource rich planet that had no big natural threats or reason to be as bad as it was. And yet it became an absolute hellhole anyways, because the people living there were simply terrible.

The only primarch with a similar scenario would have been what, Angron? And he wasnt a famous lover of his planet either.

Whats the best option for gunning down mechanicum constructs/thallax? Is it autocannons or massed lascannons or what?

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Another venerable brother returning to service.

Are sicarans any good?

>>97439102
Anything with 2 dmg and decent strength will do the trick really. Autocannons, plasma weapons that are large blast when they overcharge, gravis bolt cannons, there's a decent number of options when you look through the weapon profiles lists.

>>97438800
>>97438879
To be fair, did they not just spend all the Heresy sitting on Caliban and plotting a rebellion that never actually achieved anything?

>>97439018
Zephon literally paved the path for modern Moritat overcharged pistols, anon

>>97439187
Are the blast plasmas much good? Thallax seem too big and pricy to be very vulnerable to blasts.

>>97439214
They saved the Space Wolves from the Alpha Legion hounding them after the battle on Prospero, and some joined Corswain's force as reinforcements and fought on Terra to reclaim and defend the Astronomican.

>>97439233
So Luther's guys didn't do much but be a convenient way for writers to resolve an issue or two they had written themselves into the corner with? Yep, definitely a must place faction.

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>>97439227
Yes. High strength, 2 damage, breaching 5+ or 4+ when overcharging, and models firing them aren't that troubled by the overcharge hits. They're solid against every type of infantry, from militia chaff to terminators.

>>97439250
Yeah the whole Luther thing is more of a post-heresy story.

>>97439059
It was always night. Not even just half day half night like Mordian, some how

>>97439147
the reason there's zero talk about sicaran is it's not good.

Plasma sicaran, 185 points to have nothing but anti-troop shooting and its inferior to 130 points Conversion Predator which has AP2 with no overload instead of inferior AP4 Breaching4+ Overload(1) self-shooting the sicaran.

plasma contemptor for 170 can have 2x the pie plates. If you're gonna splash a unit with 12 hits S7 Breaching5+ Dmg2 or Sicaran templates them with 6 hits S8 Breaching4+ Dmg2, the double plasma strictly wins that with 4 breaches instead of 3 breaches, and wins even harder against softer targets.

Rotary, 170 pts, nothing but Suppress(2) like a 40pt rapier

Missile sicaran pointless

Twin accelerator sicaran is garbage to non-airplanes. 4 hits avg and breaching6+, it's not unusual for it to fail to kill a single marine. Gimmick is hits airplanes (rarely ever used)

Venator neutron FP2 S10 AP2 D2, Dmg4 if stationary, bane, Shock(suppressed). Very simillar shooting to 65 point Laser Rapier but d4 vs d3, but costs 170 points instead of 65 points, so it's vastly worse pure damage output. The only special thing about it is Shock(suppress) so 2 chances to roll 5+ to force enemy tank to SnapShots and while statused, enemy Kratos wouldn't count as stationary making his god-melta only stay at S9 or and locking his lascannons do Dmg1 (errata says Stable rule doesnt remove the moved penalty from having a status on your tank) - this in addition to snapshots would gimp any tank's output.

problem is if they have a mechanic hand-waive away 2-4 statuses instantly during his movement phase, then your Sicaran Venator status meant nothing, Kratos just insta-kills it (if he didn't have a Locus Return-fire to kill Sicaran the first time you shot at him) - then you're just down 175-180 points for the most minor distraction on one turn. But if he doesn't have any mechanics near his super-tanks (you somehow eliminated all the invisible mechanics behind walls or hiding behind tanks) it's legit

>>97439218
>look at his rules

>>97439059
>less than human evil
Deliverance, Chogoris and Medusa weren't nice planets either

>>97439348
well no most of the time your c-beam predator is going to be AP3 or AP4 and much more fragile than a Sicaran, which also has more guns total; as infantry destroyers there's nothing between the, the Sicaran can drive through a cityscape without fear of getting bushwhacked by light arms; the Omega is ~1/5 to wipe MEQ (or anything T<5 W<2 2+ with no invulnerable save) from Breaching and 1/27 for the rest of its range; the overload version is 1/3 (and so only 1/6 vs 4++)

the c-beam cannon is more or less identical up to 30"; but even if the Omega misses, it likely still scatters close by, so will probably still hit something it wants to - it doesn't lose the shot simply for overloading, and it's resolved against AV12 so, by your logic, since the S8 Omega is useless against vehicles, it's fine, it's all fine, we're all fine here (in fact the Omega is less than likely to penetrate AV12, and only has a 1/12 chance of doing something to the Sicaran that actually impacts the guns)

the Punisher is for standing still and wiping half a Line unit out, or almost all of a Line unit for anything worse than MEQ; like a 40 point Rapier, but much more likely to achieve it and far less squishy

>>97439411
>and much more fragile than a Sicaran
Not really. Same front/side armor, and the 1HP difference doesent really matter since most AT weapons are D2 or higher.

>>97435834
New Cata shoulder plates are actually great, you can fit normal sized transfer on them

Sicarans should have been 13 all round and 7HP. And even then they might still merit a drop in cost.

>>97439499
In a world of Kratos efficiency and resiliance and cheapness of rapiers, a tank has to have a very unique weapon and be cheap to be good.

>>97439503
Kratos are only efficient against other big, expensive tanks. They're too specialised, and only considered good because people refuse to stop bringing their spartan with 10 man terminators squad inside.

>>97439520
Every army runs 2 land raiders and a Krators. With 3 turns of playing that is more then enough to warrent the use of Kratos.

>>97439503
I disagree, I think theres plenty of good lighter vehicles. Sicarans are just in a really awkward points range where when kitted out theyre upwards of 200pts but their damage isnt actually that high and their durability is also not that high. Especially compared to predators which are currently very good.

If they want to have it be priced like a medium tank thats fine, it should simply have an appropriate damage output for that, and be suitably durable.

>>97439520
Kratoses are specialized but theyre good at that specialization and are very durable. Theyre exactly what a "heavy battle tank" in a marine army should feel like.

Possible changes to Sicarans to make them less bad (not necessarily all at once):
14/13/12 armor
7 HP
Base cost 130 (or even 120) rather than 160.
Sicaran Autocannon gets S8
Sicaran autocannon gets armor breaker 4+
Sicaran autocannon gets breaching 5+/rending 6+
Punisher gatling is flat 16 shots, the ordnance is for damage.
Sicaran plasma array single target mode heavily buffed to give it utility vs dreads/single targets.

>>97439553
Just let them take thunder hammers.

>>97439596
>WFB goblin hewer, but for thunder hammers
Sounds kino desu.

>>97439411
sicarans are 13/12/12 with a pathetic 6 wounds. They are not worth 50% more points than other equally AV13 tanks because of "tankiness", I don't need to read the other retarded things you must be saying

>>97439627
>Only cares about defensive and damage stats
Spoken like a true mathammer nogames.

>>97439637
Okay, theyre also not that much faster. So that doesent work either. Theyre also pretty fucking big, so theyre not the easiest things to zip around the battlefield anyways.

And this is before you remember that many of them have heavy (or even ordnance) weapons, which even further discourage you from exploiting that speed.

>>97439627
>13/12/12
Anon you realizes that turns krak grenades, the most common anti tank weapon, into an absolute joke, not to mention severely reduces the threat of power fists and thunder hammers right? On top of being way faster than a Kratos so it can actually maneuver around buildings and thus prevent it from being shot at right? You have actually *played* this game before?

>>97439520
simply not true in the slightest. Kratos is seen in every list because it's not at ALL specialized. If it was a 1-shot gun with dmg15 then it'd be specialized and only good against tanks. Instead it's good against nearly all targets in game. 2 shots of god-melta, 4 shots of stable-lascannon and 3 shots of stable-autocannon is 7 good value shots per turn. It's a world apart from an actually specialized unit like Shadowsword (which is only good against heavy tanks and penalized for trying to shoot at terminators and things with its 1 shot volcano cannon)

In the entire months since 3rd edition was released, not one single list has been posted by anyone that ever didn't contain targets Kratos would be perfect for killing. Landraiders? Perfect. Rhinos? Perfect. Predators? Perfect. Vindicators? Perfect. Elite terminator squads? Perfect. Superheavy or knights? Perfect. Elite jetbikes or landspeeders? Perfect. The huge nerfs to deepstrike and huge buffs to transports have guaranteed that the enemy never doesn't include many transports for kratos to gobble up. And with the 3-4 transports in each army having laser arrays / havoc launchers spamming status, knocking 300-700 points of transports out with one 365 point tank is always paying off.

>>97439667
*9 good value shots per turn

>>97439667
Anon my standard mechanicum list which has an admitted weakness against tanks regularly runs circles around a Kratos

>>97439654
>>97439679
>>97439637
retards straight onto the filter

>>97439688
Post games

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>>97439360
Uh, i am? Even in 3.0 he's still an enhanced Moritat, though he's since swapped Master of the Legion for OotL2
>Bro looks at a guy with rad grenades and half a dozen pistol shots and thinks:
>"Yup. Definitely not a Moritat"
Yeah no, he is a Moritat Plus. A Mary Sue Moritat. A Marytat.

>>97439667
You are significantly overestimating the difference the melta blast cannon being 1 shot vs 2 shots makes in terms of making it "good" at other targets.

The melta blast cannon ISNT good into other targets, the kratos, when firing into terminators, is terrible at its job (also the optimal loadout is 2 lascannon, 2 autocannon, not 4 lascannons, when going into heavy infantry).

The kratos is, when kitted out, 400pts, and it will not come even CLOSE to being cost effective if all it does is plink off a terminator or two per turn. As an anti infantry vehicle the melta kratos can be simply ignored by your opponent. Its anti infantry firepower is comparable to a spartan (which is NOT a vehicle you are taking for its stellar damage output in general or ability to kill lots of infantry specifically).

The kratos is good for coring out enemy vehicles with its D8 melta fuck-cannon and for chunking down singular targets like walkers and automata as a secondary role. Its a specialized tank.

>>97439667
>Wasting 400 points of shooting to kill a Rhino
Be my guest. If a Rhino is in LOS to be shot at, it has already delivered its cargo.
Nine shots is a pathetic amount for the point cost. Good value? Give me a break. It just does not kill enough infantry to matter, or prevent scoring - which is what actually wins games.

And saying all lists posted have a kratos in them only exposes you for the tourist you are. Plenty of anons have posted lists and armies without a kratos.

>>97439389
Deliverance is a penal moon. It's not meant to be nice. Or a planet. And why the fuck did it keep nukes?! So silly
Medusa's woes were monsters, not really people. Indirectly maybe, but not directly like it was on Nostromo

>>97439688
Go to Bluesky if you can't handle people arguing against you and having a different opinion, you pathetic faggot.

>>97439667
based and truth pilled

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>>97439596
>>97439553
How about Rapid? It would reposition like crazy. And 5+ snapshots are still possible with weapons like the Omega plasma, Punisher cannon or Twin Accelerator autocannons, all of them weapons with half a dozen shots or more. Even the Arcus missile launcher has 5 Thunder hammer shots (S8 AP2 D2)

>>97439774
I think it would still merit a price reduction in that case. But sure, rapid could help it at least feel fun.

>>97438932
Ahhh thanks

>>97439711
>The melta blast cannon ISNT good into other targets, the kratos, when firing into terminators, is terrible at its job
Then kill dreadnoughts? Sounds like it could do it easy, and they're a very valuable target to melta from 24" away while the other guns target whatever mathematically efficient target is available, because it can do that.

>>97439877
It can, but thats still "its niche". The kratos is a single target deleter, and its very good at that, but due to being VERY expensive it isnt great when deprived of its ideal targets in the form of similarly expensive single models.

>>97439877
The melta rule only has affect against vehicles remember. When shooting a dreadnought, the melta blast cannon only does 4 damage. And the shot has to hit, wound, and the dreadnought has to fail its invulnerable save. A kratos actually struggles to reliably kill a dreadnought in one shooting phase.

>>97439890
I can be both things: killing dreads, heavy and middle tanks whilst being able to defend itself against infantry is both a niche and a valid one, worthy of being filled. Everything is good at its thing.
Let Kratos enjoyers know their choice is both valid and has its limitations, as all things do? Sounds reasonable.

>>97439877
>thinks dreadnoughts are viable targets
You have not known the despair of firing 2 shots at an iron hands saturnine dread, wounding once on a 4+, and not getting anything through the 4++ invuln. Anything with an invuln is a nightmare for a Kratos honestly

>>97439903
Essentially yes.

>>97439903
I can agree with this. I just tend not to play lists that let a Kratos for full effectiveness as I think paying more than 300 points for a single unit is stupid. Even if a unit is super effective for its point cost, it can only be in the place at once.

Also remember : the game can be played at lower point values. You can reasonably take Sicarans in 1000 point games

>>97439503

And this is why you embrace the Krios tank, that thing has an amazing doom cannon for cheap. Venator less so, but I still like 'em for sheer speed.

>>97439905
The best answer to saturnine dreads is to ignore them. The second best answer is melee.

>>97439900
>>97439905
Nooo. All barrels concentrate fire. Bring it down! Aaaaaaa
It can probably survive all of that, at least for a single turn. Wouldn't it be cinematic if it did? A real gamer moment

>>97439951
The krios is exactly as tough as a predator (unless in makrotec apex) and its bigh lightning cannon is imo entirely comparable to the big C beamer (if not worse).

>>97439344
The skies were just too clouded to let sunlight through. Chalk it up to industrial pollution or whatever. Anyway it's a hive world, like 99.99% of people born on the planet would live their whole lives and die without ever seeing the sky, so whether it was sunny outside is moot.

>>97439344
Because of pollution. Its a visual representation of how the people of the planet ruined it because they didnt care.

>>97439987

At long range, sure, but the Krios is both faster and doesn't give a damn about distance to target, so if there's a lot of terrain about it gets a lot more done. I am sometimes jealous of the heavy bolter sponsons though.

>>97440043
Thats true, but its also centerline mounted, and its easy enough to avoid the distance at which the predator is markedly worse (15" and lower)

>>97440047

I have yet to have the firing arc be a problem since you can reposition so easily, and it's still superior at the middle range band. It's not a dramatically better tank outside Macrotek but I do think it is a slight improvement on the basic Cbeam predator, especially with the sheer number of battlesmiths Mechanicum tends to have randomly floating around. Downside is that it doesn't have anywhere near the same options list.

>>97440065
>I have yet to have the firing arc be a problem since you can reposition so easily
Its more for "counterbattery", a predator can fire at one target and position its Av13 against another. Plus a predator can buy a decurion to return fire with the C beam, which is pretty horrifying for most infantry based AT.

>>97439976
Two breaching 5+ barrage 1 large blasts melting your infantry regardless of LOS are hard to ignore anon.

>>97440167
Ignoreposters destroyed

>>97440167
pff what kind of a mad lad bought 2 sprues for 1 dreadnought to have a load out for something that can be replaced by a volkite Kratos.