>you have six ability scores>you don't use them except to calculate carrying capacity and jump distance, you use modifiers instead which are (score - 10)/2>oh, but you almost never use these on their own unless you're counting the number of uses of features>which can be negative sometimes>don't ask>if you want to roll, you add this other stat called your proficiency bonus>oh, but it doesn't work the way all the others do>anyway, that's just just if you want to roll it>if someone wants to roll against it, they roll against your DC>which is 8 plus your proficiency bonus plus your stat modifierjesus christ, there is no reason for this shit to be like this. Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?
Fuck the fuck off, frogspammer.
then play anything that doesn't use the system.next.
>>97426103>Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?Of course there is.
>>97426103Play better versions of D&D or a better game
>>97426103>there is no reason for this shit to be like this.DnD is build on a pile of sacred cows, where things are how they are for arbitrary reasons related to how it was done decades ago. >Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?If you couldn't figure out a way to do this yourself with 5 minutes of work, there's no hope for you. Please stay in your containment system.
just do a contested roll dumbass. they're way better than any other stat system
>>97426103>"Guys, DnD is shit" threadWe know>But with sad frogFuck off
>>97426103kek true
>>97426103Obviously, but i dont dev for free
>>97426103>hytnpdnd
>>97426103Ability scores and the like have been rendered obsolete by video games. There is absolutely no reason to play a number-crunching game with pen and paper and dice, when a computer can do it better, faster, more reliably, and with greater granularity. The advantage that traditional role-playing games have always had over video games is the ability to adapt to situations on the fly, without every possible scenario having to be accounted for beforehand in the programming. Therefore, any imagination-based RPG should dispense with stats and scores and pre-defined feats entirely, with success and failure being determined by simple percentage-based checks that the DM sets as and when they're required. Everything else should be purely narrative. If you just want to stack buffs and modifiers and powergame your way through a campaign, you might as well just play video games.
>>97426743>There is absolutely no reason to play a number-crunching game with pen and paper and dice, when a computer can do it better, faster, more reliably, and with greater granularity.The ability to change aspects of it with common sense notes written in one's preferred language without needing to design new assets or code.Moreover, a video game's assets are responsible for properly delivering information through its audio-visual systems, whereas a TTRPG requires none of those assets, relying on a player's sense of phantasia and knowledge of common sense rules.A video game requires physical peripherals, downloads, compatibility patches, security checks, modding support, and availability of mods to edit; a TTRPG requires the player to know how to read and comprehend what he's reading.Video games didn't invent hard limitations with rules; analog games are ahead of them on that front by millenia.You wouldn't know these things, because you don't know anything about video games.If you just want to listen to someone tell you a story, you might as well just listen to an audio book.
>>97426103>you have six ability scoresTrue in D&D>you don't use them except to calculate carrying capacity and jump distance, you use modifiers instead which are (score - 10)/2And push/pull/lift weight, but generally yes.>oh, but you almost never use these on their own unless you're counting the number of uses of featuresYou also use them for saving throws, calculating your Save DCs, attack modifiers, damage modifiers, HP per level, and in some editions languages known or skill points.>which can be negative sometimesThis is no longer the case as of 2024. All features that scale with an Ability Modifier now specify a minimum, usually of once.>if you want to roll, you add this other stat called your proficiency bonusThis is exclusively a 5e/2024 thing, and furthermore is only added to certain rolls - skill checks or saves you are proficient in, for non-proficient saves and skills you roll without this bonus. You'd know this if you read the rules, but we all know you're a nogames frogspammer. You also add this bonus to attack rolls with weapons you are proficient with, and don't add it if you aren't proficient with that attack.>if someone wants to roll against it, they roll against your DCYes, you have a Save DC which scales with your Character Level so you aren't Level 20 with a dogshit Save DC.>jesus christ, there is no reason for this shit to be like thisThere actually is. It allows for more mechanical flexibility in how things are calculated. While yes, you could hack these values to -5 to 5 from -20 to 20 or I guess 30 in 2024, it would require changing several modifiers - the aforementioned carry weight for example, which would need to become STR x 60 for medium/small creatures for example as opposed to STR x 15 as it is now. It would also necessitate the total reworking of class progression as ASIs would have to be far rarer so that players can't just start the game with a 5 in their primary stat, which wouldn't play well with how D&D is balanced.
>>97426103There are easier ways to let people know you dropped out before finishing high school
>>97426743How do you model one character being better at something than another, moron?
>>97427089You can get all of this flexibility without an inelegant, poorly designed system.
>>97426925I know a lot about video games, including their limitations. Video games are primarily a replacement for imagination - you don't need to imagine what someone looks like, you're limited to what exists in the game already, you can't go into buildings or along paths that you weren't intended to visit. This is fine, indeed, it's a worthy tradeoff for the benefits that letting a computer be the DM brings you. But this means that there's no point in playing a game that has the same kind of mechanics as a video game, just executed in a tediously manual way. I don't want someone to read a story to me, I want to participate in it. For me, an RPG is essentially akin to acting out an improvised theatre play, and dice-rolling detracts from that. I suppose, if you get right down to it, my desire to play games is totally fulfilled by video games. I would be quite happy to remove all gameplay elements from a tabletop RPG and focus entirely on imagination, collaboration with other players, and the complete lack of limitations that can only be achieved if there aren't any rules and statistics and tests.>>97427319How does an actor act like someone who's more competent than another character?
>>97427510Shit, someone should have told the ancient civilizations who would invent and play Chess they were copying video games.
>>97427510>I would be quite happy to remove all gameplay elements from a tabletop RPG and focus entirely on imagination, collaboration with other players, and the complete lack of limitations that can only be achieved if there aren't any rules and statistics and tests.Then go to >>>/qst/, retard.
>>97427326Well, let's see them, then.
>>97426103>Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?There are plenty of ways, but you have to put in the time and effort researching and playtesting to find out how to make ot work for you and any group you might be playing with.Crying on /tg/ won't solve anything.
>you have six ability scoresNo, I don't.My game has attributes, not "ability scores", and there are three, not six.>you don't use them except to calculate carrying capacity and jump distance, you use modifiers instead which are (score - 10)/2No, the three attributes behave differently depending on the associated feature.Carrying capacity is abstracted to inventory slots, which will vary based on class.Jump distance depends on how your character is jumping; long jumps are incorporated into movement, high jumps are abstracted into the "aerial state".My modifiers don't work like that, either.>oh, but you almost never use these on their own unless you're counting the number of uses of featuresMy game's "features" refer to dedicated groups of body parts, and may be used as long as the character isn't KO'd. Injuries or active ailments might affect usage too.>which can be negative sometimesNope. Can use/can't use is a binary state.>don't askk>if you want to roll, you add this other stat called your proficiency bonusNo I don't.There isn't a "proficiency bonus" in my game.>anyway, that's just just if you want to roll itJust just?>if someone wants to roll against it, they roll against your DCMy game doesn't have DCs.A roll of a die in the context of character action represents their output of force or magical power, so in order for secondary effects to land, the attacker/user rolls + chance, which may be penalized from any passive or status that grants the target + difficulty.Contested rolls only apply to reflex contests. >which is 8 plus your proficiency bonus plus your stat modifierUh, no.I don't get what your issue is.
>>97427510>only likes video games or freeform roleplaying with no rulesThis is the "game" for you
>>97427510You cannot possible be this retarded. It's just adding shit up and you can't even do that. >Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?You're adding 2 or 3 numbers up, you're telling me you can't do basic math? God help you ain't gonna make it, you lost the mandate of heaven with this one.
>>97426103It gets spammed way too much for any fucking thing, but posts like this are why the question "have you tried not playing d&d?" exists. Play any other fucking game.
>>97427326You could, but it would require an entirely different system, and an entirely different set of scaling as I pointed out.Having smaller numbers comes with its own issues, such as progressing basically not existing, which is to a lot of people one of the big parts of TTRPGs because number go up make dopamine release.If you start at a score of 5 and it can never go higher than that, you never experience number go up.Ultimately, the way D&D handles ability modifiers is only an issue if you're a drooling retard who can't do a little bit of algebra or doesn't have some automated means of sorting that value out. Even if there are better ways of doing stats, which there are, acting like it's hard to calculate your scores (or that they'll be changing very much over the course of your average game to the point recalculating them frequently is an issue) is retardation of the highest order.
>>97426668/thread
>>97426743>Ability scores and the like have been rendered obsolete by video games.The fuck are you smoking? No they haven't.>There is absolutely no reason to play a number-crunching game with pen and paper and dice, when a computer can do it better, faster, more reliably, and with greater granularityBecause you aren't playing a number-crunching game, you're playing a Tabletop Roleplaying Game where the numbers are just a mechanical reflection of the character being played used to interact with other game mechanics. And also, there are digital means to automate calculation.>The advantage that traditional role-playing games have always had over video games is the ability to adapt to situations on the fly, without every possible scenario having to be accounted for beforehand in the programmingYeah, and the ability to change the rules as you see fit without having to learn how to mod a game, and the fact you aren't limited by the game's hard coded limits in terms of dialogue, or actions, or anything else.>any imagination-based RPG should dispense with stats and scores and pre-defined feats entirely, with success and failure being determined by simple percentage-based checks that the DM sets as and when they're requiredThat's fucking retarded, the point of stats and skills and feats and what not is to help players mitigate randomness or otherwise access new abilities they wouldn't otherwise have.>Everything else should be purely narrativeThat a good game does not make. You need success and failure conditions that aren't arbitrary.>If you just want to stack buffs and modifiers and powergame your way through a campaign, you might as well just play video games.Well yeah but that's not the same as making a competent character mechanically.
>>97426103It's all arbitrary sacred cows, some that exist because people bitch if they're removed, and others that exist as part of some vague, poorly conceived "brand identity" that demands things be done a certain way to retain the right amount of nebulous "D&Dness" which is more motivated by fear of losing their death grip on the TTRPG hobby than any sort of coherent game design philosophy.
>>97429053"I dont want to do math" is the biggest complaint in my system atm.We are a long way from the old days
>>97426103It's impressive that they can dumb shit down as much as they have and people still complain that it's too complex
>>97426143Other versions of DnD and many other games are even worse
>>97430289If you're so skilled at identifying issues, then just write the perfect game without those issues and use it.
>>97426103Yes, the purpose of attributes is that they form a baseline upon which you layer training, experience, equipment and circumstance. Go back to Skyrim.
>>97430549But anon then he'd have to use effort instead of screeching into the void like the retarded frog he is.
>>97426130Redditors are an invasive species.Not Frogs.
>>97427510Answer my question.
>>97429452No, you still have progression, and I never mentioned anything about numbers being larger or smaller. Why did you reply as if I said numbers have to be smaller, when I didn't say that? Why did you assume there's no progression, when I didn't say that? Why did you assume that I think math is hard, when I didn't say that? Why are you being dishonest?
>>97426103You're absolutely correct: attribute checks are the best resolution mechanic. Roll a d20. At or under your score and you succeed. Boom: efficiancy and attributes are meaningful again.
>>97430566No they aren't. The purpose of attributes is to represent what your character can do. You've added a shit-ton of other stuff onto them and as a result, reduced their importance. Which is exactly how they developed to their current situation in D&D, coincidentally.
>>97429452Well?
>>97431815You were replying to my post, where I made those exact points. However:>you still have progressionHow? Once the numbers are capped you don't really have any meaningful progression. Your character cannot get any stronger.>I never mentioned anything about numbers being larger or smaller.Then you're just going to wind up back at how things are unless you're stupid enough to make each point of a stat out of 20 apply a +1 modifier or something like that, which just leads to number bloat.As someone who's actually designed his own TTRPGs, you have to walk a fine line when considering character progression versus game balance. If your modifiers get too high, especially too fast, you wind up with there being no challenge for the players (difficulty stays the same for NPCs and checks) or their investments meaning nothing (difficulty scales with the players for NPCs and checks). If the values are too low, then players will quickly hit their maximum upper limit and no longer have a means of meaningful progression. There is a sweet spot you have to find, and it gets harder to do so the more depth you give the game's mechanics.>>97433319Unlike (you) I don't spend every waking moment of every single day refreshing a thread on this dogshit site because also unlike (you) my ego doesn't rely on some glup shitto literally who on 4chan replying to me. I've self-actualized because I'm not some pathetic faggot who needs validation from strangers on the internet. So do the world a favor and off yourself already you waste of potential.
>>97431793stfu, frogspammer
>>97427510>For me, an RPG is essentially akin to acting out an improvised theatre play, and dice-rolling detracts from that.You are a massive retard and I would instantly kick you from my group.
>>97433387who said the numbers are capped?who said there are modifiers?why do you assume that advancement is fast?are you capable of discussing anything without assuming you know what the other person's position is?
>>97433387No, you certainly did not make those points. You said numbers have to be smaller. That isn't the case. So you're wrong.
>>97427510How do you model one character being better than another, moron?
>>97433387well?
>>97426103>Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?6 stats, 1-5 (point buy or randomize idk), roll a d6 if anything something related to one of them happens, >if under the skill number = action executed successfully>if exactly the same number = perfect execution>if over = failure>if 6 = massive failureThat's literally all you need. In fact, you can go down or up to how many stats you need.
>>97426103Yes, obviously? Plenty of games don't use modifiers.
>>97433387No response, you lose.
>>97426103>you have six ability scoreshehe he
>>97428631>>97429452>>97427089Push pull lift : reference weight on lifting table.Defenses and attacks : roll defense trait vs attack trait.Health : Based on Toughness and Might or Willpower and Toughness.Languages : If you have the Languages power, you know as many extra languages as your Intellect.Talents : Purchased independently of Abilities.No modifiers required, no compromises or tradeoffs. It's not 1970 anymore. It is not actually impossible to design games well instead of badly.
>>97426103>Is there really no way to crunch this down to just one number per stat?You could've done a neater and shorter post, yet you didn't, because you knew a single sentence was too bare. Yes you can make stats into a simple number plus dice.
bump
>>97426103dumbfuck
>>97448692>>97452297>>97457600>>97458772You okay bud?
are you?
>>97459123>so btfo they can't link posts cuck behaviour
