Games Wokeslop spent years building deep epic lore only to shit all over it overnight with Age of Shitmar yayAnyway, I’m good friends with a prominent writer of Warhammer novels he even wrote books om Gotrek and Felix saga. According to him a lot of writers within the Warhammer universe genuinely think AoS is bad. The general feeling is that GW higher-ups have no clue how to properly utilize the franchise and most important they dont respect it hence the constant retconsI also asked him about the return of Warhammer Fantasy. He said it’s a step in the right direction but many fans are still angry and the damage that was done cant really be undone at this point as many moved on to other games/settings out of gw
>>97432918>many moved onSo why haven't you?
>>97432938already did mate, just posting for those interested or waiting for fantasy as a heads up. Bought a 3d printer too and gave GW the middle finger
>>97432918>my friends dad works at gwtendo and he affirmed my opinions were heckin valid and wholesome chungus! Ok.
>posting from 2015Bro remember to invest in zoom and nvidiaAlso don't travel to china in 2019 don't ask
slow day?
>>97432918Slop Enjoyers will be mad at this, but you are basically correct.>I know a guy who XIs always a ropey statement to make though; you couldn't prove such a thing without doxing him, and yourself, and the retards know it, and half hope you will.And if you did, they'd do their damndest to get your boy drummed out, because they are shit-sucking retards who live to consoom corporate bin-juice, and pointing out that the people making it clearly don't even like it any more triggers an existential crisis in them.They will say things like>GW posted record profits this year CHUDAnd I can only respond with>So did Star Wars shortly before falling off a cliffGW is being asset stripped anyway.That's the Blackrock business model.They hollow it out for ease of consumption by the mass market, and by the time they realize the thing is full of empty promises, they've already made back their investment, and reinvested their gains into an NGO promoting lesbian poetry in Uganda.
>>97432918>hence the constant retconsAos doesn't really so retcons secondary-kun, they just write shit in/out of the 'story'. Which is kind of lame because the whole "[faction] has been hiding this whole time but [current plot] has spurred them into action!" gets a bit boring after 15 times y'know. Same goes for the reverse. But yeah tldr you don't know what you're talking about>>97432980Two more weeks
>>97433001>Two more weeks'Til what?I wasn't waiting for anything.Are you living with vaccine induced brain damage?How many "boosters" did you take anon?
>>97432918Never forgetNever forgive
>>97432997No need to expose yourself like that man.Everybody knows what an AOS player looks like.We all have to get round you in the LGS.
Sorry but Age of Sigmar is the world's greatest fantasy miniature game
>>97433313>recycled lore>recycled characters>Vague "setting" nobody cares about>"Copyrightable" names that are just awkward mutations on more pleasing common nouns>OGORThe fuck is an OGOR, and how is it meaningfully (as opposed to legally) distinct from an "Ogre"?>ORRUKI am sensing a pattern.It is almost like this whole thing was hacked together by people who don't give a fuck, and know that cock-sucking retards like yourself have no notion of quality.
>>97433373>It is almost like this whole thing was hacked together by people who don't give a fuck, and know that cock-sucking retards like yourself have no notion of quality.I mean to be fair it's still a warhammer game, all that comes with the territory
>>97433373And? Still the World's greatest fantasy miniature game
>>97432997aos player detected
fuck shitmar lore and fuck GW for shitting the franchise
>>97433398There's a difference between pastiche, and drawing from a broad swath of pop culture, myth and history, and just taking a previous setting that had all that work done PROPERLY and rendering it down to mulch.>>97433473I'd rather play Mordheim, Oathmark, or fucking Quar.Just because you prefer to eat shit, doesn't make shit better.It just makes you a shit-eater.
>>97432918Both Warhammer Fantasy and AOS are mediocre settings.
>>97433313They should be sued for false advertising, tbqh
>>97433534>a previous setting that had all that work done PROPERLYPlease tell me you aren't talking about warhammer fantasy? Warhammerpiggies lel
>>97433716Yes, shit for brains, I AM.What, you think doing a smuggie is going to deter me from calling you a faggot with shit for brains?Go hunt for used condoms so you can suck out the jissom.That's what AOS is.Common fantasy is derivative.AOS is a derivative of a derivative, so lazy that it could only have been the product of nobody actually giving a single fuck about it at any point during the creative process.>Couldn't even be bothered to write original characters>Couldn't be bothered to invent better names for their "Brand name" versions of common intellectual properties>Didn't even have points costs on launchYou are an eater of shit.You expect me to consider your opinion on what constitutes quality fantasy?Yeah, GW ripped off Michael Moorcock, and Tolkien, and the whole swathe of history and mythology.Because that's GOOD SHIT.AOS couldn't even be bothered to go back to the source; they just copied a copy and called it a day.And ironically, here you are trying to defend AOS by dunking on the thing it is a pale derivative of?Fuck off, retard.
>>97432938/Thread
>>97433835We're just looking back to spit on you at this point.A decade later and your game is still a vague piece of shit nobody cares about.
>>97433846I don't play AoS. But you creatures need to get over it. God damn is it pathetic. Imagine still supporting a company (if you play any of their games, any of their third party licensed stuff, engage with any content related to it, YOU SUPPORT THE COMPANY) that did that to you.Hundreds of other games out there and you still support GWslop
Can’t imagine making gw or warhammer your personality. So glad I have a turnip28 club to confide in.
>>97433792>And ironically, here you are trying to defend AOS by dunking on the thing it is a pale derivative of?No you absolute brainlet, I don't play either game, I'm just telling you your precious warhammer fantasy is no different and never has been. It was always slop for manchildren. It was always an incongruent mishmash of better ideas. It was always a painful experience to read the game's "lore". You're laughing at age of sigmar players for eating dogshit with a grin covered in catshit. It's time to grow up and start reading about real history insteading of scanning a wiki page on how Grimgut Dreadaxe defeated Snorgrim Maneater in a totally epic and heroic duel. Wait, I think total war just released their newest dlc! Scratch that, time to get your trough ready!
>>97432949>already did mate
>>97433978you are just a cuck who cant accept the fact that people left warhammer and pirate all miniatures. Good ridance to gw and to you ma gay son
>>97434253Very Indian-coded post.
>>97433792if you wanted to shit on age of sigmar you could bring up the current problems with 4th edition or how regiments and army building is bullshit, or how the mortal realms need to be more focused on besides aqshy or ghyranbut that would require you to actually look into the thing you're shitting on instead of regurgitating the same shit from 2016, no shit dude first edition was a piece of crap, it's been over a decade, retard
my beef is them shitting all over the established lore i mean, why kill the lore, just change the fucking game and move on but why do that when you can shoot yourself in both feet like a true GW turd, no wonder the stocks are plummeting
>>97434321>If you want to shit on age of Sigmar you should keep current with the steaming pile of tripeDo you think I want to touch that shit with a barge-pole?It evinces primal disgust.>>97433903>Muh CAslopNo thanks, I already played Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen in the 90's, when this shit was still good.And they didn't jew me on DLC.Also, if you hate them both, the fuck are you here for, retard?Or did you just decide to go on the offensive, because what WAS your position melted into a pile of shit, as I suspect?
>>97434408op here, that is my friends beef as well. The reasoning being that in the end times you could write a ton of novels and add extra lore, there were discussions of the orks eg doing a waagh, the skaven coming on the surface, the dwards, everyone to attack the chaos forces, and the idea was that chaos is chaotic and both skaven and orks would not want the world to end. Anyhow yeah i agree that they should change the game only and not spit on old lore. Another tidbit that was fascinating was that they were pushed to publish whatever fast because gw wanted to move on and thats why the end time novels were so rushed. Then when they mentioned they couldnt kill some major super characters like gotrek for instance gw said ok and hence the mess in the lore
>>97434476>that is my friends beef as welldidnt know you could find that.
>>97434476>They could've churned out more young adult tier glorified fanfictionDo secondaries really?
>>97434431calm down grog
>>97434476the skaven wanted to destroy all of the surface world to make the horned rat rise to ascendency, which happened because the horned rat is now a chaos godalso gotrek didn't die, what the fuck are you on about
>>97434476>there were discussions of the orks eg doing a waagh
Age of Sigmar is legitimately sad. It’s been a decade and their most popular factions and characters are all stolen from a better setting created by better men. The game itself is horrible and the lore continues to be so retarded that everyone who doesn’t play AoS thinks it to be retarded. It’s an actual disaster of a setting and game and it is shocking to think that AoS players don’t see the writing on the wall.
>>97433473In the way that McDonald’s is the world’s greatest restaurant. Slopmar enjoyers are the obese fast food junkies of the wargaming world.
>>97434657>by greater men So true trench sister
>>97434670What slopmar enjoyers? You're seething over a group of people that don't even really exist. I'm sure most aos players probably just enjoy the game and building the miniatures and don't care much for the lore. Warhammer Fantasy fans are the ones who always go on and on about how great a setting Warhammer is when there are like six ttrpg settings exactly like it. All because they read a 10 year old 1d4chan article and decided to parrot everything whoever wrote it said.
>>97434704>enjoy the game
>>97434704I like parts of AoS setting but GW doesn't really know what the fuck they want to do with it. Death actually has all the best characters in AoS, Ushoran is a baller.
>>97434727basically this, it really shows that GW has no goddamn idea what they're doing half the time, my biggest problem with the setting is that the mortal realms are still incredibly weird and esoteric and they only really focus on the same 2 realms over and over againthat said AoS is in a much better spot gameplay-wise than regurgitators like >>97433792 who unironically believe the game is the same as it was in 1st edition say it is, and instead of playing old world or an earlier version of fantasy battle or mordheim they'd rather beat the dead horse that is age of shitmar jokes because they don't actually play wargames; they just read 3 articles on 1d4chan and continue the parrot spiral to maintain some vague notion of superiority over randos on the internet
>>97434727>Death actually has all the best characters in AoSI feel like they're one of the few factions where they actually managed to make recognizable new characters like katakros and kurdoss. Ushoran is technically a portover from whfb but his backstory in aos is pretty much wholly separated from that and executed well, imo.
Here's how I would improve Ass of Shitmar's lore>Kill all TW tourists
>>97435411absolute kino. i agree all tourists and indians should be shot.
>>97434657The irony in this statement when WHFB is just Tolkien + Michael Moorcock. Oh we need humans uhhhh... Just put the HRE in there.
always amusing when one group of GW sloppers pretends they're superior to the other group of GW sloppers.
>>97435411there literally is none in shitmar because shitmar's dead you bitter retard. All the tourists are hanging around a version of the IP that doesn't even have a model line.
spearhead is fun
>>97436812WOW now I KNOW you're a retard tertiary. TOW got a whole ass new faction, a refresh to an old model line, and some new kits too. You'd know that if you weren't stuck in 2015
gw is now overrun by wokies and i am really glad i bought a 3d printer, let them rot
imagine the donkey dick GW sucks now after seeing how succesful Total war warhammer is lel
>>97434549No.
>>97437700I hate them.I want to rape them and set them on fire.At the same time.
>>97432918Aids of Sigmarines was necessary:It sequestered the waste of the Fantasy playerbase to a dungeon of their own making, paying out the ass for a pittance of figures playing a game even less mentally stimulating than watching grass grow.But also, and most importantly, it showed people for whom they truly are. People with sense, self respect, just played literally anything else and got more and better figures from a myriad other manufacturers, and we see the result of this in sublime new plastic kits from companies like Victrix, Atlantic, and Northstar.But those that were simply there for the brand? To the first group with them, amassing piles of shame and debt.
>>97437891Too bad TWW secondaries don't buy minis... imagine the egg on GW's face when they made TOW only for no one to buy it, again, lol
>AoSbab still assmad butthurt about TOWGood thing the skaven and lizardmen players(furries) are all stuck with you.
>>97432980Star Wars is still massively profitable. One or two TV shows getting bad reviews does not make your grievant mind palace fantasies render in the real world.
>>97438164star wars and star trek are shite, made for woke gays. It is unfortunate that muricans cant get theis shit in order, we keep wimenz in da kitchen for a reason, and gays at cleaning toilets. But murica gave them air to breathe and now they strapon every murican ideal to the ground while karens applaud from the sidelines
>>97438164Mate, they have utterly crashed.Star Wars toys are bargain bin warmers now.Nobody fucking cares about that clapped out piece of shit dyke-parade.
>>97438031Luv me some Northstar.Painting up some Elves soon to fight my mate's humans.I got a whole evil kingdom of spider-themed wood elves imagined up.Shit's so cash.I still miss The Old World, but I've got my memory of it, and I can keep a piece of the spirit alive.But shitting on AOS is obligatory for me.Look how they massacred my boy. . .
>>97432949>just posting for those interested or waiting for fantasy as a heads upBut...it came back a year ago
>>97432980>GW is being asset stripped anyway.>That's the Blackrock business model.>They hollow it out for ease of consumption by the mass market, and by the time they realize the thing is full of empty promises, they've already made back their investment, and reinvested their gains into an NGO promoting lesbian poetry in Uganda.What the fuck are you talking about? Blackrock owns like 6% of it, they aren't even the biggest stock owner
>>97432918>>97432949>>97434476>orks>killing off gotrek>not knowing what tow isLmao. Seriously how can people get so worked up about something they clearly know so little? It baffles me.
>>97438453He has Blackrock Derangement Syndrome. Many fa/tg/uys suffer from it. Sad.
The only valid AoS criticism is it's clearly a half-measure. For every new unit that fits the new setting there's dozens that are just remakes of grog WFB stuff.
>>97438453Blackrock isn't just Blackrock.And 6% isn't just 6%There's Vanguard and State Street, and the rest of the same network of investment firms busily working to buy up everything.And when they get a significant piece of it, they castrate it, brand it, and shave it's head, and send it to the abbatoir.All that you love will be ground down into blandly inoffensive corporate slop.
I think OP makes a point in that AoS has failed as an IPthe models sell quite well, but the tabletop game can be rare to see at times, and it's existence outside of tabletop is nothing outside of mockery
Alright I know this is a consolewar thread so my chance at getting real answers is slim but bear with me. The general consensus seems to be, even among aos players, that the launch of age of sigmar was an absolute botchjob; rushed and unpolished, with severe communication issues between departements. Sloppy art, weird rules, background fluff without stakes, etc. Now the grogs will tell you AoS is still shit, but again, even aos players enjoying the game now by and large seem to agree that the system was terrible at launch, and it took until AT LEAST the launch of the first general's handbook (summer 2016) to find its footing. That's not really uncontroversial from what I'm finding, right?The thing is, according to gw's investor reports from the 2015/2016 year, by the end of that period AoS was getting: "sales at a higher level than warhammer [fantasy] had enjoyed for several years".My question, then, is what the FUCK was happening with fantasy in its final years so that it managed to get outsold by what even aos players now consider a horrible false start?
>>97432918>my dad works at nintendoit's almost nostalgic at this point
>>97438878>what the FUCK was happening with fantasy in its final yearsthe rules were fundamentally broken:premeasuring made cannons so precise that they effectively made monsters and other big dense points-sinks extinct, that meant that a lot more points ended up having to be invested into infantry unitsfurthermore 8th ed switched the army building from requiring a number of core troops (say, 3 units, regardless of how big they were) to a percentage of points spent on core troops (generally 25%, even if they were just one big unit), that meant that you were discouraged from using as few points as possible in cores to spend them on special units and instead you were encouraged to keep investing points in the troops because you were forced to spend 500pts on them already, and might as well make those count by making the unit(s) actually survivable and effective (at taking hits, more than anything)last but not least, 8th ed introduced "horde formation" which meant that the units could fight with an extra rank (on top of the 2 they fought by default, plus step-ups) if they had a rank 10 models-wide, and also made the units downright unmovable regardless of combat results modifiers as long as they had more ranks than the enemy (and due to some fucker not proofreading the rules, by rules as written, this boon from having ranks wasn't negated even when charged from the flanks or rear), which further pushed for large unitsthe magic system of 8th edition was supposed to offset this, since it had spells that would cause damage that scaled up with the size of the enemy unit, but it only ended up causing a second arms race with wizards, instead of discouraging large units
>>97439077this compounded with the fact that most armies' basic troops were (and still are) the most outdated and least appealing parts of the ranges, meaning that newcomers were met with a huge entry cost that actively punished them for wanting to buy and play with their cool and exciting monsters and elite special troops. and in turn the basic troops were left misbegotten by gw's releases because the average customer wasn't a newcomer but an old player, who already had an army of the existing units and is not really that prone to update all the basic troops of their armies even if they got neat updates, so instead of looking after the long term health of the range and system gw looked for short term gains, which meant making brand new units, and not always with good results in terms of fluff and designs, or with balanced rules (they were either extremely op or useless cannon bait, with no in-between)it shouldn't come as a surprise that, despite what many console war faggots from either say may want to spout, fantasy players surged massively into aos, together with new players moving with the flow, the moment aos managed to present itself as a complete game with points, and that's because aos did 3 things that fantasy didn't:army composition was way more lax, meaning that you didn't have to make an army around the troops you found ugly cannons had different rules that meant they didn't automatically neuter any and all things that didn't move in herdsvarious model ranges got boxed deals ("start collecting: _____") that offered actual deals and didn't contain just the ugly older modelsand now, 10 years later, fantasy is back and is slowly falling through all the same pitfalls once again and all because cannons still aren't getting fixed
>>97439105>inb4 but anon horde units aren't the problem in tow now! only dragonlords and multiple fast moving and hard hitting units!>lets ignore how no monster other than one that can stack the saves required to defend against cannons is a problem and that cannons being a hardcounter still ends up making it ok for dragon rules to be busted>let's ignore how this setups means that the pendulum will swing to remove the stacking saves and monsters will stay extinct >let's ignore that when the pendulum swings, the focus on multiple small fast elite units will get once again replaced by basic horde unitskeeping cannons they way they are was the death sentence of warhammer fantasy and will be again
>>97439105>and now, 10 years later, fantasy is back and is slowly falling through all the same pitfalls once againoh no
>>97439105>this compounded with the fact that most armies' basic troops were (and still are) the most outdated and least appealing parts of the rangesI can't speak for appealing but is was my inpression that many armies actually DID have their core units refreshed in either 7th or 8th, with probably the most notable exceptions being brets and especially tomb kings. Anecdotally I've heard that the problem was moreso that existing players simply didn't buy the refreshed basically infantry, since the jump in quality wasn't enough to justify (re)painting however many new infantry jobbers you needed. This wouldn't be that big of problem if it wasn't for the dire amount of new blood coming into the game, which you touched on with the non-existence of start collecting type sets. The focus on infantry, within this view, was an attempt by gw to force the issue and to get veterans to actually buy the new basic infantry, but this worsened the new blood issue even more. Again, this is just some theories I've picked up from talking to people about this topic over the years, I wasn't around back when all this actually went down.Sort of related but a lot of the very weird decisions of early pre-ghb aos, like no points, can be explained as an overreaction to the issues late whfb was dealing with. Not everything of course, but still.Thanks for the writeup anon. I find this time period very interesting.
>>97439245nta but I think gw are at least trying to solve the "new player issue" with>big army boxes that, for the cost, are great deals (wish they had a single on-foot character though)>battle march small gamemodes, meaning for example one armybox could give you 2 battlemarch armies to fight each other>updating generic characters to plastic, no newcomer wants to buy metalthe issue is that these updates are slow to come out, but I think that's more an issue with "holy shit 40k is taking up every weekly release slot" than TOW's fault
>>97439282Yeah they've at least learned that discount boxes make them more money in the long run this time around. Battle march too should help with new players, no doubt inspired by the success of spearhead which is hard carrying aos through 4th edition.
>>97439245empire troops were deemed uglier than the 6th ed one with puffy sleevesdwarf troops were deemed uglier in proportions compared to both the antecedent metal elite troops and the successive plastic elite troops high elves and tomb kings kept having some of the oldest basic kits of the game as their basic troopsdark elves didn't get their basic troops addressed until a few months ahead of the end timesmarauders were laughable up until the recent updateskaven were fine, vampires were fine, beastmen were fine (rulewise they were trash though), wood elves were fine, and ogres, orcs and lizards managed to go on because monstrous designs age better, but not addressing the troops above was a grave mistake
>>97432918>a lot of writers within the Warhammer universe genuinely thinkI don't think they do, just been reading the Necromunda novels, and as there aren't too many I've almost finished the whole of what is out there, and the difference in writing quality between the original novels and the newer novels is apalling, the current stock of GW "authors" are a shameful stain on the very notion of literature, it's awful crap that is lower tier than some fanfiction and web novels.
>>97438164It took until just now for Star Wars, which used to print money hand over fist, to finally make back the cost of acquisition from Lucas. More than a decade of movies, TV shows, and merch. They haven't even dug themselves out of the hole of production costs and their disasters like Galaxy's Edge, not even close. They started Star Wars in the hole, sabotaged the entire IP, and now they have yet to actually break even.
>>97441365I think at fault for all of it is the sequel trilogy and whatever the fuck was going on with directors there
>>97439282>no newcomer wants to buy metalAnd they're fools for that and many other reasons! Metal is objectively superior as a material for character models, it holds detail better and it's much, much easier to strip & repaint when new players inevitably fuck up painting their first characters. Not to mention GW actually decided, by a miracle from God, to not be gigajews with their pricing for metal characters. You can get a metal chaos champion for 18 canuck bucks right now. That's a deal and a half. Plastic character kits are a horrible idea, both financially and logistically. You wanna know why GW charges $60 for a god damn space marine captain these days? Because cutting a steel mould designed for a single character's sprue is retarded, but they do it anyway because people don't have brains and will buy anything.Fie unto Games Workshop and fie unto anyone who says metal characters are bad! They're good!
>>97441623The metals GW produced were so terrible even finecast was an improvement(other than paint stripping ofc)
>>97441724What? Far be it from me to want to defend GW, but their metals are fine. I've worked with metal models cast as far back as 1988 and even a couple that were cast as recently as last year and they were fine. Better than fine, even. Finecast was not an improvement at all! Do you have any idea how awful working with the finecast dark eldar models from 5th edition was? Horrible! I still have to figure out how to repair my haemonculus' fingers after they broke off and I've been putting it off for years now because they're so tiny and annoying to fix. Metal is the king of miniature materials, anon, and GW has always (and don't get me wrong, GW fucking sucks) made good metal models.Then again, it's not like I really have anything to compare them to. What, are Infinity's models better?
>>97438164This is what the culture warrior Filonicuck ACTUALLY believes.
>>97441801I refer to their mid-oughts metals. Absolute garbage and one of the biggest reason metals in general have such a bad name.
>>97441874Ah, fair enough. I actually haven't managed to get my hands on many of their mid to late 2000s metal models, my metal collection is mostly comprised of models from the '80s, '90s, and almost every metal chaos champion and sorcerer model they put out alongside the 6th edition Hordes of Chaos book from 2002. That's a bit of a blind spot in my collection, late 6th and 7th era metals... I'll have to find some and see if they're really as bad as you say!
>>97441365>when you have to baldly lie to maintain your fragile, fake worldview and sense "your side is winning"https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1744489/000095015724000366/defa14a.htm
>>97442234To sum up, since you're too stupid and lazy to actually read anything: Disney had made 12B+ off of Star Wars years ago. You can probably add a billion or two to that now. They easily paid off the purchase price and made insane profit since. Cope if you must, boomer loser.
>>97441724Why do you retard zoomers parrot opinions about a past you haven’t lived through? You’re wrong, the GW metals have been good as long as they been making metal. Shitcast was a drawback in every way.
>>97441623"It holds muh detail better" is like a 90 year old guy going on about some landspeed record that's lodged in his sunsetting brain and has been beaten for multiple decades. GW's current plastics have more detail than any metals they ever produced, and it's not even close.If you were to hold a competition all about putting the finest possible detail into a mini, sure, metal would win. That bears no reflection on what they actually did with their models though.Metal is far worse to assemble, faaaaar worse to convert, and chips many times more easily than plastic. It's largest appeal is to lizard-jew troglodytes who helplessly associate the literal mass of a hunk of metal with value.>>97441724You're even dumber than the fading boomer, though. Just straight up lying about products you've never held in your hands or even seen outside of a computer screen. A true flagbearer for AoS.
I think that like/dislike of metal miniatures is a good filter. Those who dislike metal or don't get the love of metal are soulless bugman.
>>97442480It's an indicator of conservatism, since the defining qualities of conservatism are 1) fear and 2) discomfort and confusion when confronted with ambiguity. Holding a metal model that will outlast your mortal lifespan is comforting to them. But no self-actualized person will ever prefer metal.
>>97442528I know intrinsically that you are ontologically evil by virtue of your black speech on the topic of metal miniatures and thus am discarding your slander into the bin (where it belongs).
>>97442432Anon I'm 24, I'm not a "fading boomer". I'm probably younger than you. I like the models that were made in metal far more than anything GW has put out in plastic and it's not nostalgia talking seeing as I literally wasn't even alive when most of these models were in production.Also, you're really not considering the financial/logistics side of things that I explained in my post. There's a reason GW was able to put out dozens of different chaos champion/sorcerer models back in the '80s and it was entirely (well, mostly) because the models were being cast in metal & therefore making the moulds was a lot easier and cheaper.Anyway, you're right that GW's current plastic models have more detail, but who cares? The models aren't better, at least in my opinion. They're more detailed, but GW isn't using that extra detail to actually do anything cool. I think the new models suck, aesthetically at least, compared to the older ones. They couldn't make this chaos champion today, for example. Well, they could, but you know what I mean. They wouldn't! I can post more examples if you'd like.Furthermore, if your metal models are chipping, it just means you haven't varnished them properly. Gloss varnish is your friend, use it. You're right that people who speculate on the value of metal models are pretty gay, though. They suck! Models are meant to be built/converted/painted/played with, not hoarded.Finally, your point about metals being harder to assemble and convert is moot because modern GW plastics are all sliced up on a computer and distributed across the sprues in a nonsensical fashion, which makes assembly & conversion harder than it ever was with the old metals and the old plastics.>>97442528Doesn't plastic take a super long time to degrade, arguably longer than metal minis which might suffer from lead rot? My main issue with plastic models is that stripping the paint off of them is annoying, so they're harder to buy second-hand.
>>97442631>Anon I'm 24, I'm not a "fading boomer"...it's not nostalgia talking seeing as I literally wasn't even alive when most of these models were in production.That doesn't really follow. People are often nostalgic for eras that predate their life/memory, and glamorize them.>There's a reason GW was able to put out dozens of different chaos champion/sorcerer models back in the '80s and it was entirely (well, mostly) because the models were being cast in metal & therefore making the moulds was a lot easier and cheaper.They put out more models now, at a faster rate, than they ever have before. They commission plastic sprues for fuckin' board games and videogame tie-in boxes and shit. The cost is not a limiting factor. Are you just looking back at a 30 year library of metal releases and going, "these all came out at the same time"?>They're more detailed, but GW isn't using that extra detail to actually do anything cool.They absolutely are. Maybe because you don't assemble plastic kits you don't see what's going on with them. You look at the final product photo of a release and go, "meh!" Off the top of my head their plastic design techniques have eliminated tons of nasty seams on models, they have produced more naturalistic and dynamic poses, they have eliminated ugly unnatural joints on models (like a ball arm slapped haphazardly into a socket shoulder, or a waist that is turned without any of the corresponding musculature flexing), they have introduced the ability to render precision detail that should be perfect and symmetrical like armour filigree, etc.
>cont'd>Finally, your point about metals being harder to assemble and convert is moot because modern GW plastics are all sliced up on a computer and distributed across the sprues in a nonsensical fashion, which makes assembly & conversion harder than it ever was with the old metals and the old plastics.Just ain't true, especially about assembly. What IS true is that dolts who used to think they were hot shit because they could put their adult Lego models together without instructions are now totally fucked. But the literal physical process of putting plastic parts together with cement will ALWAYS be superior to putting metal parts together with superglue (and sometimes needing pins!)Converting is more challenging in the post-adult Lego era, but it's mostly a skill issue. You have to consider building a model and then taking it apart in your own way if you want pieces of it -- they are no longer easily split up like Head, Arms, Bodylegs.>Doesn't plastic take a super long time to degrade, arguably longer than metal minis which might suffer from lead rot? My main issue with plastic models is that stripping the paint off of them is annoying, so they're harder to buy second-hand.It's not just the lifespan while left untouched that matters -- plastic is more vulnerable to heat, cold, breaking and bending from force, etc.
>>97442746>are you just looking back at a 30 year...No, I'm not. I'm looking at the yearly catalogues GW used to release and I'm seeing that they would put out several metal models to represent a single character unit. Sure, some of them had re-used bits & body shapes, especially the RoC ones, but you cannot deny that they used to put out & concurrently sell more variants of a single character unit (e.g. farseers, chaos champions/sorcerers, space marines, for God's sake they put out three or four different dark eldar haemonculi all the way back in 3rd) than they do now, seeing as GW is typically (for non-marine factions) content to release a single plastic kit for, say, a chaos sorcerer, and then do nothing more for years at a time. Seriously, just go look at the old catalogues. How long were we stuck (we still are, btw) with the awful, awful plastic undivided chaos sorcerer from 8th ed Fantasy? >more models, faster rateArguably, sure. Yeah, the company got bigger and they churn out more space marines than ever before, but they've traded army depth (variety of models within one army, if you will) for absolute quantity of models released over more ranges. Who gives a crap if they make 29 new space marines or whatever the 40k dwarfs are called if I don't collect those factions? I'm not buying everything they put out, I'm buying what I like for my army, and on an army-by-army basis they are (when they're not removing half the units in the range, see dark eldar this edition) releasing less models. Instead of choosing from 30+ different chaos champions (a bad example, but you can also look at other Fantasy armies from the '80s and '90s and see that they had variant models for the same character unit), now they just sell one that's on foot and one that's on a horse. I hate that They started doing this paring down the model ranges in 6th, reversed course in 7th, then went full steam ahead in 8th. You can track this by looking at the army books.
I learned about warhammer fantasy from total war and i was instasold but when i saw that they deleted fantasy and how the lore of aos i said nope and moved on. Still play total war fantasy games just not this aos stuff
So this is why the latest /wfg/ has been slower than usual.Anyways, beyond what others have already said about why Fantasy got axed, you shouldn't forget the horrid financial hole that GW dug themselves in prior to 2015. The sloptubers are probably exaggerating how bad it truly was, but they already axed a lot of other products in the decade prior.The AoS sets are generally much more in that detached "high fantasy" style that got very popular at the time (probably thanks to a combination of WoW, more modern D&D, and our autistic nerd spaces in general attracting loads of normal people thanks to the Big Bang Theory), and those new ranges did sell well enough that they contributed to GW slowly digging themselves out of their financial nadir. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something similar to AoS would have appeared on the scene even if they weren't in financially dire straits, but the finances killed Fantasy. No company in their right mind would have let something like the TW games' hype pass them by without trying to capitalise on it as the IP holders. (I think that's also the reason why AoS was such a mess in their first edition. They wanted to push out popular high fantasy models for the painting only crowd to buy asap, and the actual game was an afterthought)As it stands both TOW and AoS are doing alright, with probably one or two ranges outselling AoS (apparently not very hard considering the latter's fans cluster around a few speciic ranges like how 40k's fanbase clusters around space marines). GW is doing much better financially through their licensing, more conservative approach to production, and bleeding hobbyists that only buy from them dry. Sure. I'm not happy about what happened with Fantasy, and I think AoS is honest to God the most boring fantasy setting I've come across, but it's not as if allowing AoS to exist on the webstore is going to immediately kill TOW (or vice versa).
Also continued.>they absolutely areNo, they aren't. GW has consistently, from my perspective at least, been releasing boring and bland models for the armies that I collect and this has coincided with the move to the new style of sprue. I don't care how fancy the new sprues are and I don't care how well the seams are hidden (they aren't, by the way, but it's nothing plastic cement + sprue goo can't fix), the new chaos and dark eldar models they've been putting out (when they aren't outright obliterating half the range & offering no replacement, see dark eldar again, yes I'm mad about it) are not to my taste. A lame model on a really high-tech and sophisticated sprue is still nothing more than a lame model. Also, I will remind you that GW has used these fancy new sprues to sell you monopose models. Multi-monopose, sure, but monopose all the same. >just ain't trueI don't understand why you're so focused on how "difficult" assembling models should be, as if it were a point of pride or indicative of the final product's quality. A lot of old metals came in one piece and they were glorious & are still widely beloved to this very day, man! Having to hunt for parts 62A, 73B, 86C, and 100297D to assemble a space marine's left buttcheek (hyperbole) on sprues as cluttered as modern GW sprues are is objectively harder than sticking 2-5 pieces of metal together to get a whole model, and for what? A model that's more detailed, but nowhere near as cool (subjectively) as something sculpted 30 years ago? Models shouldn't be hard to assemble, at least not in my opinion. Keep it simple, keep it clean, so whoever's doing the assembly can move on to painting their model quickly and painlessly. I will concede that using plastic cement is easier than using superglue, though. That's just objectively true.>plastic is more vulnerable...Fair enough, but I'm still able to find plastics from the '80s with relative ease, so it's not like plastic models are more ephemeral.
>>97437891They're seething over all the royalty revenue and selling off 25 year old models to FOMOed secondaries I'm sure
>>97432918And yet it sells better than Fantasy ever did
>>97443375not true what are you on about mate? did you see the stock exchange? Fantasy surpasses by far aos , its 40k-lotr-fantasy-aos deal with it
its called age of shitmar for a reason since the lore is utter shit like who thunk it was a good idea bubbles in space? Nobody can relate to that as opposed to fantasy where you had maps and saw what was happening and you could relate easily. Fuck GW may they go bankrupt
>>97432918The only good thing from age of shitmar is some of the models are great.
>>97444153This is counterbalanced by them having some of the worst models ever released by GW.
>>97446428It's amazing how even the battle standard of the landwhale manages to give off bulldyke kween energy
>>97446428no way these are real bruh wtf and here i thought aos shit couldnt get any shittier omg
>>97432918It sucks, it has always sucked, and that fact is incredibly disappointing. I really wanted to like it, even though I was pissed that WHFB got squatted.
>>97449248You gave it a fair shake.Can't fault you for that.We can fault GW for not honouring the implicit commitment to replace WHFB with something as good or better.
>>97442432Honestly, modern resin 3d printing blows any kind of injection molding out of the water when it comes to detail. The things you can just casually 3d print as a single piece in resin would be impossible or require absurd multipart construction in plastic/metal. You are right through. "Metal holds detail better" hasn't been true like at any time during Mr. Twentyfour Year Olds life. Except maybe at their youngest times. What GW does with injection molded plastic these days is absolutely amazing. I hate the company, but do respect the work they have done making plastic (which is far easier to work with over resin or metal) do amazing things. But, despite the pain of working with resin, the upsides of 3d printing make everything else pale by comparison.inb4 "3d printers are too expensive". Motherfucker, I bought a 3d printer capable of producing shit better than injection molding for less than what GW wants to charge for a combat patrol, or battalion box, or whatever the hell GW wants to call their boxed collections these days. Embrace the 3d printer, make more minis for more games, and actually play some fuckin games. Print enough models so you can have forces for your non-wargaming friends to use so you can sucker them into the hobby too.
>>97432918No shit, AOS is made to sell models and to use a game system more modern and appealing to a wider audience than WHFB.The lore isn't good, but honestly the main problem with AOS lore is that it derives from and prompted the End Times, which everyone rightfully hate."Hey, you know that fantasy world you've grown to love? Well, we want to make a new series of models to sell, so we will kill off that world. Enjoy, and buy our new models."
>>97450232Honestly I think they would've killed off the world regardless of aos being on the table. Might as well squeeze the last amount of money you can out of the playerbase y'know.
Imagine if total war happened 2-3 years before the gw cucks decided to kill it, imagine if larian had made not baldurs gate but something in the fantasy setting, a crpg of epic proportions that would kick the ball outta the park totally but like i said gw are cucks and i hope they go bankrupt soon
>>97450232>"mOrE mOdErN aNd ApPeAlInG"To who?People who don't even fucking like wargames?People who were previously excluded by being too low IQ to play?How does this improve anything for the extant players again?Oh, yeah.It doesn't.You shit-eating retard.
I like AOS, so I play itI also like TOW, so I also play it.I do not like 40k, so I simply don't play it.If you think something is shit have you just tried not playing it? It's not like AoS is dominating every FLGS the way 40k is so that should be incredibly easy, right?
>>97450482Aos is simultaneously dead and noone plays or thinks about it AND worthy of getting its own dedicated seethe post every other week
>>97450472why are obviously autistic people on /tg/ so aggressive and low iq?
>>97432918Why didn't they introduce AoS as an alternate system and keep Old World? Surely they'd know people would be pissed off. Also the success of Total War Warhammer shows that even normies prefer the old world.
>>97450596Mirroring; one guy starts it off and it just goes round and round.
>>97450605At the time they didn't have the resources to support both. And they knew that if they kept around the old stuff not as many people would've jumped ship to the new game.>Also the success of Total War Warhammer shows that even normies prefer the old world.While I don't doubt the setting (!) of the old world is more popular than that of aos, total war warhammer doesn't really prove anything in that aspect, at least not until they release a total war : aos and you could compare the two.
>>97450521It is impressive how people can stay mad for 10 years and counting1st edition>Just you wait guys they'll kill AoS and bring fantasy back2nd edition>Any minute now you'll see AoS is a failure and they'll cancel the line3rd edition>Nobody is playing it and TOW is coming out to replace it4th edition>AoS is dead and nobody plays it they'll replace it with TOW entirely you'll seeAoS will get to 10th edition in 2040 and people will still be malding over it simply existing in its own corner, seethe-posting about it from their retirement home PCs
>>97450430Total war 1 was dead, it wasn’t until vampire coasts or maybe, tomb kings were introduced, that total war warhammer really took off. Honestly if they did release a twwh along with 8th edition CA would have died alongside fantasy. >larian My nigga do I need to remind you the dogshit games they released before bg3(I still consider bg3 dogshit but at least it captures the sexually depraved normie)? Also crpgs are still a fucking dark horse genre, and you’re over estimating what a pre endtimes fantasy can achieve.
>>97450789>It is impressive how people can stay mad for 10 years and countingThe funniest part is how at this point the majority of people seething weren't even around for the actual end times, lots of total war kiddos who are mad as fuck about aos.
>>97450789>>97450859obligatory picrel>>97450843that's another thing people forget, both CA and the vermintide guys weren't doing so hot before tw:wh and vt, and in the case of the latter it took several years for tw: wh (2 by that point) to really take off. People are confused why they didn't just wait a bit longer to reap the benefits of the vidya but that's only really obvious with hindsight. Also this is maybe a bit schizo but I imagine it's possible CA only got the rights to whfb's IP because gw made it cheaper with end times in mind.
aos is shit plain and simple but in the meantime get a 3d printer and give gw the middle finger
>>97450183Not to stir back up a discussion that may have run its course, but has GW even made any modern metal models that we could compare their modern plastic kits to? Setting aside all other arguments for or against the plastic character kits of today, surely we can agree that there was a reason why metal characters were the norms in the '90s, right? I acknowledge that modern plastics are very detailed (to the models' detriment sometimes, but let's not get in to that yet), but what are we comparing here? Plastics now to metals from before 2011? That's hardly fair. My personal opinion is that the metal character models are superior aesthetically to the current plastics, absolute level of detail notwithstanding, but I acknowledge that what I see is entirely subjective. Let's compare apples to apples, I say!Also, resin vs. metal is a fool's argument. I've worked with finecast versions of models that were previously cast in metal and the metal versions of these sculpts are objectively superior. Finecast was a mistake, but I can't speak with regards to 3d printing. Maybe it is better, but metal will always be my material of preference for characters.
>>97446428>not any of the dwarves The kharadrons are rancid dude.
>>97452989Not as rancid as the naked midgets
after they fucked up with fantasy now its time to introduce transmarines to 40k oh its coming
>>97450882>I read the books, matea secondary and an Australian, impressive
its called age of shitmar bc its shit
>>97456468idd
