Do you like the Leagues of Votann?
>I asked a question about the Votanns in the general thread>this thread pops up a few minutes laterAt this point it just has to be bots right?
>>97442863Post your models.
>>97442877at least half the posts on the board are gpt4chan, theres no doubt about that. The real question is who runs them and why, and do they pay for a pass
>>97442863No. They're retardedly over the top not in a cool Heavy Metal cover way like classichammer, but in a performative Directed By Denis Villeneuve way. They've also been used by the drooling subhuman weenies that constitute nuGW's design team to solidify their hijacking of the setting's aesthetic and fluff by retroactively validating the shitty >DAoT humanity were NASApunk retrofuturist faggotsdirection they've been insisting on ever since the disastrous 40K Mechanicus range was released. On top of that, they singularly fail to successfully combine the NASApunk look with the Dwarfish elements they for some reason chose to neither abandon entirely or make the focus of the aesthetic. Their final sin is in further cucking the Mechanicus; after Nucromunda nufluff introducing a functional STC on that planet that the Mechanicus are apparently just too dumb to notice, now there's an entire culture with functional STCs that the Mechanicus absolutely cannot fail to know about and yet still don't immediately launch a massive unending crusade to obtain. The object of their entire belief system sitting *right there* but they're like nah bruh, it's cool, whatevs.Peak Nuhammer slopfaction.
>>97442863Who?
I would if they weren't manlet Starcraft marines. The template for making space dwarves cool in the modern day was right there.
>>97442863Nah, not a fan of dwarfslop in general and moving in to space doesn't help.
>>97442863it's petty but it bugs me that they have animal motifs on their armour. why does a bunch of robot worshipping, space dwelling, clone miners, have a bear hanging over their head?
>>97443046>>97443046You didn't even read any nu-lore to get why AdMech aren't aware of working STC faction, not knowing what are you shitting on is peak lazy zoomer/twitterbaby behaviour. >DAoT humanity were NASApunk retrofuturist faggotsWrong. This isn't even DAoT humanity representation, they are descendants of very specific "slice" of DAoT mining fleets that went to Galactic Core.They aren't even directly linked to them, being a separate "clone" race to do all those industrial work at the Core and Votann themselves are the supervisors, being biggest link to DAoT humanity (which isn't even a monoculture).
>>97444166Because heritage, tradition and their ancestors seem to be a big deal for them, so house/family crests and motifs would be something they'd like in their personal armor?
>old squats>make an actual unique take on not only space dwarves but dwarves themselves, comparing their family structures and honor systems to ones held by bikers, which is a perfect direction to go in when dwarves are taken to a vast and chaotic expanse as large 40k>new squats>they look like starcraft marines but short and only sometimes have beards (too stereotypical!)>they uhh worship ai or something because it's LE FUTUREmodern 40k feels like it's ashamed that all it's concepts are aped from fantasy as if that wasn't the entire shtick of 40k's aesthetic from the start, but what do we have left, then?
>>97442863Their design is so boring and generic that I forget they exist whenever somebody else isn't reminding me by bringing them up in my vicinity
>>97442863>Do you like the Leagues of Votann?no,next question
>>97444894Old squats were extremely boring, another le mining and le biker theme, nothing else. There is a reason why Ironhead got relegated to Necromunda, it's a limited angle for a big faction. GSC and Imperium already got big chunk of industrial aesthetics so old Squat would look redundant. Shit on Votann however you want but at least they have a mix of themes and directions like daot/nasapunk/clones/AI/robots/norse/mining/corporate etc. that can be expanded in any direction.
>>97445323in their original inclusion they were a bit two-dimensional like every faction back then, sure, but if they got the same treatment and development every other faction got between then and now we'd have something a lot more original that feels a lot more 40k than votann. At the end of the day the squat's problem is that they don't feel like a 40k faction because all of their features reek of generic sc-fi frills that mantic games could've just as easily pulled out of their asses. wowww where have i seen corporate dudes in bubble armor who worship ai before??also the biker plays many more roles in fiction than you think, it's a surprisingly flexible label that can be used by heroes and villains alike depending on what angle you want to focus on and perceive from and totally runs parallel with how dwarves felt and acted in fantasy.
>>97444166
>>97442863i like the ironhead squats more.
>>97442863Their all being clones makes them boring. Should've started with the Imperium realizing they're humans, and go from there. Throw another war onto the pile.
>>97442863I like the idea and some of their aesthetic, but as an execution on the idea of Squats and scifi dwarves in general they're pretty weak thematically and almost entirely irrelevant to the wider 40k story. More so than even Tau.They've been in the game for years and I still forget they even exist sometimes.When they were part of the Imperium back in 2nd ed, Squats made sense showing up almost anywhere. They were just another Imperial force that could be on any Imperial planet.Now that they're these somehow tolerated pseudo-xenos, kind of isolationist tech heretics, it feels strange when they show up anywhere at all.Story wise they're basically just Kharadron Overlords from Age of Sigmar, except less intentionally goofy and more unintentionally boring.KO are at least pirates who actively seek adventure, Votann just...mine.
>>97445323Votann are a bunch of soulless clones. Most Reddit 40k faction by far. Bunch of clones made artificially worshipping AI.
>>97442863they're okay.
>>97443046>The object of their entire belief system sitting *right there* but they're like nah bruh, it's cool, whatevs.Not to mention the space dwarfs have robots running around in the open and the AdMech aren't suspicious about that either.
>>97445323>GSC and Imperium already got big chunk of industrial aesthetics so old Squat would look redundantAnd another faction of space marines isn't redundant? Do you have some kind of brain-eating parasite, or has it already starved to death?
>>97442863>Do you like the Leagues of Votann?I usually forget they exist, honestly. I don't care much for Tau or Votann and I think that if they both disappeared tomorrow then there would be no major impact on 40k as a whole.
>>97443046>They're retardedly over the topwe looking at the same model range?they are shit because they are excessively dull and not over the top enougheverything is played so safe down to making sure their beards aren't too long
>>97442863I like them, they're... compact and ergonomic looking, and I love the landfortess, only reason I don't have them as an army is because I missed out on that warhammer + mini
>>97445323Speesh Mahreens...but short and worshipping AI!
>>97442863I think that their basic troopers and vehicles look pretty good.
>>97442863No. Huge mistake not going for biker dwarfs, but then "all of GW was a mistake" (Hayao Miyazaki).
>>97447030Bikers? I always thought they look more like space colonizers.
>>97442863Fuck no. Hairy babies are the worst thing in any setting dumb enough to include them.
Wasn't there ANOTHER group of space dwarves that were actually aliens, who went around on their spaceships and kept to themselves or something?
>>97442863Yeh. Space dorfs cool. They caught me right on my Deep Rock arc.
>>97447105It's just how early 40k did things. Halflings are mutant humans, ogres are mutant humans, elves and orks are genetically similar to humans because they were all created by the same progenitor race. Thus, dwarves were also mutant humans. This reflects a lot of classic sci fi and speculative fiction where the human form diverges significantly as man spreads out from Earth, stories the 40k writers would have grown up on.For a while GW were thinking of retconning the dwarves into true aliens like >>97447263 remembers, the Duergar, a Tau ally race who are little dudes made of living stone. Ultimately, the Tau became more about power suits than non-blueberry auxilia, and the idea was shelved for long enough that people started thinking regular dwarves were cool again. Thus the original near-human stunties were rebranded as Votann.
>>97447263Demiurg were Tau-allied Dwarflikes, but it has been retconned that those were also Votann, Tau just didn't know what they were or that they were related to humans.
>>97447664Correction: as >>97447688 says, they're Demiurg, not Duergar.
>>97442877>>97442957The real reason is that the general sucks and if you want to have a real discussion you have to create a thread.
>>97442863They have potential but they need work.
Overall they rock. A couple of specific kits/designs look shitty (as with every range). Their lore is cool.I am old enough to remember the introduction of the Tau and the years of dull resistance to them that are basically memoryholed now
They fit all the LEGO Space schemes well so I'm ok with it
>>97442863I love em. I wasn't big on them at first but they really grew on me after I saw them in colors that weren't the default scheme GW decided to go with. They're not a perfect range by any means but they have some really cool models like their characters and robots and their fluff is solid.
>>97442863No, I liked the old space bikers in quilted armor
I like them. They're like the Tau in the sense that the Votann are something out of Star Trek or Mass Effect that stand out like a sore thumb in the absolute insanity that is the Imperium but again show how the emperor's civilization is a complete mess locked in a downward spiral. The Space Dorfs bring to mind the sweaty space truckers from Alien, or the classic world of tomorrow dreamt by Heinlein and Asimov, or even- >>97448045Lego Rock Raiders. They make the galaxy look bigger, with the neighboring Imperium just being another slice of Milky Way. Besides, nobody complains about the Tyranids despite them being straight out of Starship Troopers.
>>97443046peak bot post
I think a lot of their models are a bit of a let down, and even the ones I like have missteps. They're dwarves, they need to look squat and have beards. But mostly they're fine. What a lot of the shitters in this thread who complain about "missing" the old squats don't realize is that, these more or less are the old squats. Most of the old range is actually represented in the Votann, most of their lore is just slightly warped and retooled. You'd all know this if you bothered cracking open a book instead of crying about the secret plot to make you stop buying toys. Votann need to actually be connected to the wider setting though, instead of just sitting around in the galactic core. I think they'd get along with the Tau the best, but they're kind of too far away.
>>97442863No, I think they're single most boring, flavorless faction in the entire game.
>>97445906reddit hates ai though
>>97448045space police 1, mars mission, and ice planet>>97444894Yeah, taking the dwarfen clans and guilds then expanding it into a general idea of organized crime families would be great. Vendetta fits perfectly with grudges, the struggle between their honor systems/omerta and the sheer desire to make money and stack gold opens up a lot of different characterizations. Mix and match the bikers, the rum runners, and all other kinds of cartels and pirates. The AI shit would be interesting in another setting but this is 40k and we just flat out know that it doesn't work and shouldn't exist.
>>97442863I surprisingly am?I haven't been into 40k that much since 9th edition dropped, aside from playing the video games that mostly ignore the Primaris, the Primarchs, the Eldari-Aeldari kerfuffle, the Custodes, and so on. Mostly remembering the 40k I used to enjoy once a while.Anyway, I like the space dwarves. They feel like they fit, with their "mutated humans that have a different stance on key Imperium technology". It seems like real thought went into them.Still not playing them though.
>>97449152And I guess to add to this, I am still looking at them from a distance, I haven't read their codex or delved into it much, just on a surface-level.
>>97447688>but it has been retconned that those were also VotannI haven't kept up with some of the nu-lore since I can't be bothered by some of the retarded changes, but aren't there non-votann squats as well and isn't it heavily hinted at that those ancestor core AI's are ruling over them with other faction remaining free?
>>97447060Extremely soulful sculpts. Votann are a textbook case of monkey's paw, after 20 years of begging for a reversal of the great squatting it finally happened except GW was no longer in a state where it can create anything interesting and has to live off reconfigurations of decades old lore.
>>97442863Idk who the fuck could look at that picture and OK it.Its not even random art, its one of the core pieces meant to introduce the faction and it looks so gay.
I don't like the fact that they retconned the Demiurg into just being Votann. Why can't there be more then 2 different midget races in the galaxy? Saying they're all just the same makes the universe feel small.
>>97449196I wouldnt say Vorann isnt interesting. It just has too many similarities to Space Wolves and not the flavour everyone liked from the olds.
>>97444894>>97445323old squats were shit but votann are even lamer .
>>97445725It’s amazing how shit your tastes are.
>>97442863I don't like their classification as xenos, they are abhuman. That's the tipping point of 40k going to shit.
>>97443046>retrofuturistThis is always kino stfu
>>97443864Started playing DRG a month ago, and in hindsight it's amazing how fucking hard GW dropped the ball on Votann compared to how fucking great a scrappy little indie game studio's dwarfs are
For me, as someone who very much enjoys the rugged, chunky sci-fi esthétique, there's just something a little off about a lot of them. A little Mantic Games. A little... too late to the party.
>>97449823they did it because theres no non-imperium human section on the store lmao>>97449651the votann being similar to SWs is the most interesting thing about them. Like a possible origin story for Fenris or even the Votann themselves. >>97449633you still get Demiurg thats another type and the alien looking stone skinned ones still exist>>97448663You are slightly mistaken, the Votann are sort of like a run away computer virus run amok. They were made for a purpose and thats strip mining worlds possibly for early space corporations. With out anyone to guide them thats all they do. They are like biological robot clones controlled by sentient ai computers. They are described as being literal different to orks really. Their "mining" is essentially mass looting. They even get annoyed with the orks over looting because they think the orks are wasteful.Also despite being short asses Votann think of themselves as titans and their enemies are ants, so they are a bit ego maniac.
>>97449888>being literal different to orks really. little different*
>>97449888>you still get Demiurg thats another type Are you illiterate? Demiurg are votann now >and the alien looking stone skinned ones still existNope, still votann. Several votann models even have craggy scalps to drive home that forced retcon of a connection.
>>97449888>votann being similar to SWs is the most interesting thing about them.I think that too copy paste. And with all the cloning and forefathers they are just even more a Space Marines. The computer mind is kinda unique, but feels more like the Emperor.>>97449633I think they are just a different group or specialist catagory.
>>97450237
>>97448599> Their fluff is solidNo, no it's not, nu40k sloppa lover
>>97450400Did they retcon out those ship designs as well?
>>97442863Not nearly as bad as the Tau, but they feel like they're missing some key design element. Also the art you picked is vomit-inducing garbage generic slop. Apologize.
>>97451440That's the first image of a Votann if you google Leagues of Votann.
>>97451483I am aware of that. But that's not the apology you still have to give in order to restore your honor.
>>97442863The what? I'm sorry, I don't pay attention to nugarbo by James' Wokeslop.
>>97451022Cute fanart, too bad it's completely wrong. It's not even based remotely on the one pre-retcon sketch we had of the demiurg
>>97442863I don't care for their direction but there is enough in the design and concept to do a redo like the Newcrons.
>>97442877Generals attract off-board cancer and raids from discord servers
>>97442863>ConceptuallyIt's a fine enough idea. Abhuman remnant of an offshoot of DAoT humans who still preserve some tech and mingle with AI, to the point they're ruled by senile AI cores.So far so good.>In practiceThe broad strokes are fine, but closing in to the group and individual levels I'm incredibly bored. Also I just can't picture the entire Mechanicus and dark Mechanicus not making their lives hell with their endless harrassment once they get as much as a whiff of their tech. No, they don't need full knowledgd of their AI overlords to start throwing endless bodies at them.>AestheticallyThere's two aspects of the Votann aesthetic and sadly I dislike both. For one, I can't get into the NASApunk stuff, even if I find the Lego memes cute. On the other hand, whenever I see the dwarf inspired stuff all I can think is that we're past year 40 of 40k as an IP and we're still blatantly copypasting Fantasy like we're copying old homework. As a weird addition, for some reason none of my complaints apply to the iron kin. They share all share all the same stuff but somehow I can't help but like the little buggers.
>>97442863No. Their lore sucks, their models mostly suck and their existence killed any hope of actually getting anything Squat or Demiurg.The AoS goof ass steampunk power armor Dwarves would have unironically been better than the Votann. Though my preferred turn of events would have been keeping the Demiurg their own race with like 1 squad for Tau players and then bringing Squats back not as a whole army but as a handful of characters and then an infantry and bike squad that all Imperium armies can include if they want like how Inquisitors work. But that wouldn't rape the lore like most things GW has put out over the last decade so it would never happen.
>>97451817>As a weird addition, for some reason none of my complaints apply to the iron kin. They share all share all the same stuff but somehow I can't help but like the little buggers.I still maintain if they were solely ironkin it'd be a much better faction overall. Even if you kept all of the poorly plastered on dorf memes, it'd somehow be more endearing coming from a race of faceless robodwarves that pour beer on over themselves since they can't actually drink it.
>>97450237retard. Read the codex before opening your mouth you illiterate esl monkey
>>97451059No. I dont know any depiction of Demiurg ships besides old BFG.
>>97451577I dont think that was the artists intention. Only their own Space Dwarf vision.
>>97451577stop making stupid posts. The demiurg as shown in that sketch, that look still exists among the Demiurg now. Its been shown in the new stuff.Nothing has been retconned. Demiurg were nusquats and now its been revealed that votann can look so alien they deliberately try to pass themselves off as aliens. They even tell people they are aliens.Demiurg were never aliensRetards like you that call new lore exposition in any setting a "retcon" are clinically retarded. That sketch was never canon anyway.
>>97448045i hate this and think this is one of the reason votann didnt do so well. Fucking juvenile redditors pushing the bold lego cartoon paint schemes.To be fair gw pushed it in the codex too. Votann are a faction that look so much better with gritty realistic painting like dirty, and tarnished mudcore utility look with neutral colours. makes the minis look so much better and like space miners. (the space lego was always cool though but thats not 40k)
I'm just gonna say it: dwarfs without beards look fucking ridiculous.There's just something about the beards that brings the whole concept together, and when they lose it they turn into these lame compressed humans with babyface that are hard to take seriously. The Votann, in GW's attempt to create some distance from just making space dwarfs, fully embraced the clean shave for a good half of their troops.
>>97454343black female dwarves is more ridiculous
Votann suck imo. Very bland and boring faction. Visually it’s so sterile and uninspired I could fall asleep looking at it. Lore wise they add nothing significant to the setting. They are a great example of why you don’t want NuGW rereleasing your squatted faction and reworking them in their onions image
>>97454390i think there lore is fantastic its leagues better than tau.Minis are a bit hit and miss though and not that cool
>>97454414>its leagues better
>>97454475i'd even go so far as to say they should squat Tau.
>been an army for 4 years>still no lore or meaningful named charactersIsn't it crazy? I got back into warhamms in 2022 intending to grab some nuSquat models and boom! years later never did, no reason to do so, everything costs more but most of all the votrans aren't even worth it.
>>97442863>not heavy enough into dwarf aesthetics to really feel like dwarves in space like DRG>not heavy enough into the AI clone cult shit to feel like a genuinely unique alien racelike a lot of other stuff GW puts out, they're exceptionally average and uninteresting. It's unfortunate that they gave the AI backstory shit to votann, it would have been a really good idea for dark mechanicus or a completely seperate faction but it's just wasted potential here. >>97444166>aribitrary animal motifs and runes for no reason>but god forbid you get one dwarf with a doublesided axe
>>97448045god their vehicle looks so goofy and dumb. who the fuck greenlit that stupid thing
>>97454491the worst thing about the minis is the cost. You are jokes aside getting actual midget minis that are smaller than normal but they expect full primaris marines prices.If gw wasnt retarded theyd sell them cheaper for being smaller.I remember wanting to pick up their terminator equivalents and then finding out they are much smaller than terminators.
>>97454414For me Tau are the reverse Votann. Couldn't care less for their lore, but I actually really like their model range. Shame that as they years have gone by they've gone all in on making their mechs bigger and bigger and most of them look like ass. I like their crisis/commander, broadside and stealth battlesuits, but the riptide and beyond just lost me. I wish they had gone for more auxiliary races besides Kroots and Vespids.
>>97454512i mean votann are weird when you realise they are basically being mass produced as clones by intelligent ai. Everything about them is programmed into them like machines. All the votann computers are not all there and some are insane.
>>97442863Not decided yet.I *hope* to, but doesn't look like GW is too enthusiastic about developing them fully as a faction. Or maybe I missed new developments.
>>97451817>we're still blatantly copypasting Fantasy like we're copying old homework.Nah, they're copying AOS now. Votann are space Kharadons. And that's why they're better than Squats of old
>>97454942Aren't votan some stupid shit about a super computer cloning?Doesn't sound like Victorian era age of sail and piracy KO are
>>97454173>The demiurg as shown in that sketch, that look still exists among the Demiurg now.You literally pulled that off a fan wiki, idiot. It has no basis on what precious little pre-retcon demiurg fluff we did have, which consists of >gave tau their ion tech>had cool ships>pic related is the only concept art we had related to their looksThey were never retarded bats, they were stoneskinned xenodwarves.And if you've look at Votann at all you'll notice several heads have similar craggy skin to this and their armor also takes cues from this sketch.
>>97456238you are actually a retard. you cant retcon something that was never canon in the first place.The actual retcon was claiming the squats are now aliens.Stop doubling down you autistic moron
>>97456248>you cant retcon something that was never canon in the first placeThe xeno species known as demiurg was always canon. The only thing that was dubious was their appearance, since that concept sketch was never canonized as far as I know. >The actual retcon was claiming the squats are now aliens.You've got it completely backwards, a species of xenos are now squats.>b-but da store page!That's because there's no category for non-imperium aligned, non-chaos aligned humans.
>>97456259No, retard the art was never canon. Congrats you're a fucking moron.Theres been no retcon. theres been a canonisation that Demiurg were always squats.
>>97456299>the art was never canonI've never said it was, illiterate-kun.>theres been a canonisation that Demiurg were always squats.And custodes were always women, right?
>>97451961That would be interesting too, there are no real votan left, the entire race is robotic but unlike necrons they don't know who is an uploaded personality and who is a plain AI anymore so they mostly just all act like dorfsThey don't know if their elders are robots who are technically younger than they are or some coot who was senile when he was getting digitized but they tear apart planets at their behest all the same so they can keep making more bodies and keep themselves sane.
>>97456306you said that retard kun. You said they retconned the Demiurg into Votann. We never knew what demiurg actually looked like in canon.The implication was demiurg were the retcon of the squats.So your retarded argument is wrong, Demiurg were the retcon. Now i'm just repeating myself because you are autistic and intellectually disabled and a liar like every boring autistic retard.
>>97456318>You said they retconned the Demiurg into Votann. They did. You do know what retcon means, right? Retroactive continuity. That's it, it doesn't necessarily mean an egregious breaking of canon, just some piece of lore being retroactively retooled. Like what happened to the demiurg.>We never knew what demiurg actually looked like in canon.Which is why it was easy to retcon them into votann without breaking canon, yes.>The implication was demiurg were the retcon of the squats.Not at all. They were a replacement, not a retcon. GW has made multiple space dwarf xenos outside of tabletop in their attempts to fill the empty niche left by squats. None of them were meant to be retconned squats, they were meant to be squat substitutes.Eventually GW gave up on these substitutes, rebooted squats as votann, and then said all their squat substitutes were sekritly vitann all along.I hope I kept my sentences short enough for you to comprehend. >Now i'm just repeating myself because you are autistic and intellectually disabledIronic.
>>97456345you don't seem to know what retcon means. Like every idiot that misuses the term (or any term on the net) you use it to mean thing you don't like.A retcon is not writers adding new lore to a setting or canonising lore.You are still an idiot. Nothing has been retconned. Full stop
>>97456310Yeah I was thinking something like the whole paperclip optimization meme where they're a runaway mining program, but they can still be reasoned and bargained with because they were designed to interact with humans and/or make deals with xenos to secure land and minerals for when the human settlers came in behind them (and for more meta reasons, to keep them from just being metal tyranids), plus millennia of bugs and glitches and adaptive learning AI quirks have built up to give them distinct personalities and subcultures based around their various Master Computer ZARDOZ heads.Sure, some of that is already present in current votann, but I think it'd be more interesting and a bit somber to have these robots acting in service of and putting on their best impression of absentee masters who will never ever return, no matter how good of a job they do. You could even have one of the reasons the Votann master computers are slowing down is because they're constantly compiling an events and inventories log to update their absent masters on everything they missed.
>>97456356Looks like I'll have to take this real slow for that ESL monkeybrain you've got:Do you think when demiurg were conceived GW had originally intended for them to be revealed to be rebooted squats ~20 years down the line?
>>97454526Thats be ause you dont pay for plastic material or sculpting work but boxes and how important that unit is for the army.
>>97456380This is actually a really fun idea and adds a kind of tragic undertone that you could squeeze some stories out of.It's hardly original but stuff doesn't need to be, it just needs to be solid.While we're at it remove the NASApunk thing, the whole aesthetic is about optimism and therefore no living faction should have them - the 60's thing is on Castellans because they were quite literally from a brighter, more hopeful time.
>>97456380>>97456948I thought they took inspiration from Marvel Comics Supreme Intelligence.
>>97457254
>>97442863No. Their lore is boring and their models are boring. Lore is "we're clones who worship AI, yet the Imperium sorta tolerates(seriously, the IMPERIUM being tolerant?) us for some reason." They've had literally zero effect on the wider lore aside from simply existing (which I'm thankful for, keep this shit contained). As for models, they went with space marines but short. Some ignoramus at GW read homo sapiens rotundus, said "AH YES LET'S DESIGN ALL OF THEIR STUFF WITH ROUNDED EDGES" and thought gave himself a promotion. There's almost nothing dwarfy about them. Most of them don't even have facial hair for fuck's sake, and on those that do it's barely anything. It's incredible really, "space dwarves" is so hard to fuck up and yet GW did so spectacularly. They're so much of a nothing burger that most people forget they even exist until
>>97442877>>97447762This. If you wat to talk about something without the resident schizos making it all about themselves, you gotta do it in a separate thread.
>>97456948>While we're at it remove the NASApunk thingSee, even that works if they're exclusively ironkin, because now they're the tattered, automated remnants of that more hopeful time. Instead of a breakaway human civilization that's doing mostly okay, they're now a race of glorified, highly advanced Clippys waiting to eagerly assist a society that no longer exists. A cheerful, hollow shadow of what humanity once stood for and could've been.The "starcraft mini" look is egregious to be sure, but making them look like bulkier, more industrial variants of UR-25 was the right call if you ask me, they just didn't fully commit to it.
