Me and the Boys Edition>Resources:WFB: https://pastebin.com/qVGrgwwhWM: https://pastebin.com/EsDAgebaWFRP: https://pastebin.com/inbyBsR6Novels: https://pastebin.com/PFqPDr0H>TOW:https://gofile.io/d/fxFgXShttps://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/warhammer-the-old-world/>Warhammer Chronicles:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/0xt777 (dot) zip>Time of Legends:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/q46ut6 (dot) zip>The End Times:https://files (dot) catbox (dot) moe/j7d0t5 (dot) zip>Alternative Models:https://pastebin.com/xPeM9szL>Previous Thread>>97427448>Thread QuestionWhich army/armies are you considering for your next project?
>TQWhy would I ever start another project? It’s just the one and then I’m done.
>TQI'm going to keep expanding my collection of chaos models and I have no intention of stopping any time soon. Soon, very soon, I will have the last few models I want to paint in the colours of chaos undivided. After that I'll start collecting and painting marked regiments to go with my marked heroes. Or I'll hunt down a chaos dragon and start playing by the meta. Egrimm does look really cool and I have found a couple listings for him at only slightly obscene prices.
Finally some new Tomb Kings art, might actually start playing them now.
>>97446149no new army but I'm grabbing a chaos toad sorcerer
>>97446149This little Mordheim warband I've been working on has been making me want to play VC, but obviously the army isn't supported currently and it's a pain in the ass to do an entire army off eBay and marketplace
>>97446149>TQDoing a Slaaneshi-themed warherd for the beastmen. Been kitbashing a unit of skirmishing ungors with blissbarb archers and green stuff. Absolute fucking mistake. Singlehandedly one of the worst kits I've worked with.
>>97446149>TQI recently started playing vermintide 2 and the wholesome dwarf made me want to start an artillery heavy dwarf army
>>97446149Second Dragon Prince painted. It's getting easier to paint all the detail but it is still very challenging.
>>974463248? More to go. Looking good
>>97446181>egrimm's "horde">actually like 50 dudesWhat a bum. In all seriousness it always surprises me how much smaller warhammer armies used to be back in the day. Closer to aos in that aspect.
>>97446355yep, 8 more. I also have 8d printed ones but I prefer the GW originals
>>97446181what a kino undivided army of warriors, beasties, and daemons.heres my stupid gay chud cabinet with unpainted minis in it. (its my first display cabinet functioning as a test run ok)
>>97446392Incredible soul. You have to SS the photo before posting or it will flip like that.
yeah fuck just post it sideways who gives a fuck yeah just fuck everything nothing should ever just work or go in my favour i should live a never ending fight an uphill battle forever until i die unceremoniously with no control over the circumstances or time
What would you call the perks of this game after the deeper list building and spell system?
>>97446662That's a strange question. It's completely different from the other games on offer. It doesn't make sense to compare them. TOW offers a more traditional grittier rank and flank wargaming experience relative to other GW wargames. Also it has the most fleshed out/well written setting/world when compared to any of the other GW settings, which are all derived from Fantasy. As for tangible benefits. It seems to be treated by GW in their own words as their historical fantasy setting. So they so far seem to be far more respectful of established lore and worldbuilding relative to 40k or AoS where the corporate direction is more overtly felt.
Post tales and stories you've made from your games, cuz forging a narrative even from casual pickup games are fun.
>>97446149>TQSince GW and others seem to enjoy that Battle March variation of the game I thought about getting some third party medieval soldiers and make a crusader force of Bretonnians using the exiles list. My baron + 9 knights, a sergeant-at-arms + 21 yeomen guard, and two groups of 16 peasant bowmen for 747 points. I'd get the yeomen and knights from Victrix, and the archers from Fireforge. Just over €100 in total, and since I already got a seond painting project involving chaos space marines I'm holding off on that for now.I'd probably paint the baron's clothes in a flamey pattern and give his sword some flaming effects, while the rest of the knights will have a flaming sword on white tabards (and the peasant crusaders will just have white clothes). Less nu-Bretonnian, more regular crusader-y but with a fantasy vibe. Order of the Most Holy Flame, or whatever.
>>97446727Never knew you and khornebro had a match.I dont mean to pry but assume you guys knew each other already? Or was the game organised through /wfg/?
>>97446149>TQI want to do Kislev (if/when it arrives) but I'll be honest, Cathay is calling to me.
>>97446770Nah, was a buddy of mine who played a mounted Khorne list, not someone from these threads
>>97445801>repost in this thread because the old one is dead.Unironically, if I could write a book for BL at this moment, it would be a Miao Ying novel about her arriving in the Westerland.Because it would be a good chance to have a deeper look at Miao's state of mind and her ideals, the culture clash between Cathay and the Empire, and you could even use it to have a deeper look at how the Westerland is dealing with the Anarchy and internal Imperial Politics.Have Miao be the main character, make the Gate Master and Shugengan Lord secondary characters, and then have an Imperial General and a mercenary captain act as the main Westerland characters to get the Empire's side of the story.
>>97446848I'm not sure how I would like BL to handle Cathay. I would probably prefer some more lower powered lower stakes stories since those are generally the better books that BL makes
Where do the skaven get all their timber from?
>>97446848It probably will sell if they inflate her tits on the cover art.>>97446898I don't know anon. Maybe they steal from local lumberjacks, or employ lumberjack chain gangs? Make up the fluff as you need.Add a skavenslaves lumberjack crew that got conscripted to your army.
>>97446848In my opinion, they've already fucked up a golden opportunity to explore Cathay. Not placing Cathay in its own sort of succession "crisis" to mirror what's going on in the Empire was an absolute waste.Cathayan politics should have been built around dynasties that rise and fall with the favour of the Dragon Emperor (i.e. mandate of heaven). In TOW's time frame, Cathay could be on the verge of one of these transitional periods. Hell, that would be a good explanation for Miao Ying's expedition - effectively a way for her to spread Cathayan prestige, curry favour with her father, and place her dynasty in a position of ascendance over her siblings. What's more, the dynasties model could have been used to refine Cathay's art style by having each dynasty ape a real-world Chinese dynasty. Miao Ying, in the ascendance, could have aped the look of the Ming, whereas the sibling leading the dynasty falling out of favour could have aped the Yuan.
>>97446149>TQI'm leaning towards an imperial/mercenary force. Spears, handguns, outriders to mimic a sort of 17th century German mercenary feel.
>>97446110Nigga what are you talking about. The only thing resembling a "line" is the fact that they all started on their own side of the table
>>97446800If c7 and/or GW weren't retarded the old world RPG would be the perfect place to expand on this.
>>97447166C7 still needs to release the 5e core rulebook that was meant to come out last month, and this month they were meant to release a Dark elf splat book, and we haven't seen anything about that
Errata drops Wed btw
>>97447831Will it live up to our hopes and dreams?
>>97447837It will live up to your hopes and fall short of your dreams.
>>97447848So something that makes infantry charging into infantry a fair matchup, but not clarifying the wording on a bunch of simple sentences allowing dozens of stupid misinterpretations?Gotcha, I'll take it
>>97447189How is 4E? I have everything for 2E, even the career compendium, and really enjoy it, probably my favorite TTRPG of all time. Kind of want to try 4E, or at least grab some of those source books.
what the FUCK did they do to divine casting in the old world rpg????
>>97448219I'm in the same boat as this anon. I don't like the dice pool system TOW RPG has going on, and I don't really care about having the most recent, untested system.
I wish steam tanks were better.
Can a hochland rifle target non-champion or hero models? For example a specific normal model in a skirmish to cause coherence loss?
>>97448620I don't remember them sucking for their point cost...
>>97448679Well that's sort of the story of all empire units. "it's not bad when you consider how cheap it is!" just means you have a whole extra unit to still lose with.
>>97448620>>97448679>>97448695You both have let him down, and not lived up to the Spirit of the Game.
>>97448708You're right. I use a matte varnish.
>>97448708>Muh 1 army that never changesThat "spirit" is what killed fantasy warhammer in the first place. Grogs didn't consume product
>>97446392It's a great start, but I find it incredibly cheeky to have the old night goblin box paired with the updated bfsp night goblins on display. Love those bases in any case.
>>97448620>>97448679>>97448695What are you, women?We're playing the Empire of MAN, the most masculine of the armies out there. The ethnicity of our fantasy Germans already trump all others, their weaponry outclass any foe, and their fashion mog the inferiors. Who cares about point cost optimisation, as we are always going to win just by those factors. Blast a landsknecht playlist through your headphones/airbuds/stereo and advance your masculine army forward. Either they totally vanquish any of our subhuman and cowardly foes in total victory, or they suffer a valiant "defeat" taking dozens of the devils with them, and keep the fatherland safe. If you can't handle that sort of spirit I suggest you move on to something more feminine, armies such as the Cathayans with their female head options.>>97448708>Fight in big games with just your 2,000 points, and to hell with the odds.I think WAACfags would have a melty if their opponent did this, let alone adopt his advise themselves. >What you see in the army is what you get - take this literally.Ah, what simpler times. My opponents just get my list in print that they always get to look at if something is confusing about my army.>>97448753The only thing that got "killed" was that GW wasn't selling any miniatures. Tough luck, I got my hands on the few Empire models that I really couldn't find good proxies for, and if TOW "dies" then I'll just move on to OPR, an older edition or another ruleset.
>>97448820This guy 100% owns 9 cathay balloons.
>>97448840This "person" had weak feminine hands!
>>97448820Well you can go play in the corner of the old folks home faggot.
>>97446287This is why my beasts have chainmail loincloths.
Asking again; Was the "regular" mercenary giant from 6th ed or 7th? Because I remember the rules coming out in WD together with the plastic giant mini, and I think that one was for 7th
Wish these British cunts would release Kislev already
>>97449233I cannot think of a more boring faction, except Cathay.
>>97449283Slavic mismash offers fertile ground for warhammer fantasy. If you can't see the potential that's more a limitation of your own imagination.
>>97449283Cathay and Kislev designed by the original WHF writers and not the nu-males who work on TOW would've been sick
>>97449283I can,Your dudes
>>97449283Empire, VC, Bretonia, Dark elves. All more boring than Cathay and kislev.
>>97449313It offers no more than what the empire already does. >>97449331The only thing right here is Bret’s. Maybe vampires if we’re talking Von cunts.
>>97449283Brets
>>97449226Taking a quick look, there is a Dogs of War giant available to some armies. The giant came out not long after the 6.5 dwarfs, so perhaps just on the cusp of 7th. And I just found the WD featuring them, 316, April 06, so a a good few months before 7th's release.
>>97449379So its 6th friendly. Thanks! Since im toying with the idea of making a pdf/booklet with all the 6th ed DoW and RoR rules in one place, as well as adding some WD articles and the 5th ed army book fluff to give it a nice feel, so theres no need to flick though different books
>>97448219It's fine, it's crunchy but not very lethal at later levels.Several systems like advantage and channelling didn't work so they had to be fixed in later books
>>97449421Make sure you've got the 6th whfb.app and wfb6thcharacters blogspot sites at the ready, a decent collection of various chronicles in that latter one.
>>974493186th edition kislev was boring as hell toothey were just never meant to be a separate faction, the empire was meant to be the umbrella book for all these human subfactions
>>97448620They rock, how are you using yours? Just Drive it up a flank and blast the horses out from under knights with your move and fire cannon. , or grapeshot to that skirmisher unit annoying you, choice is yours.It’s certainly less choppy in close combat than it was in 6th but that doesn’t mean it still won’t hold up pretty much anything that’s not built to kill dragons forever.>>97448655Absolutely not, that’s gamely bullshit.
>mfw local scene is very much WAAC orientedI just want casual games where tables are as important as the lists
>>97449505best way to achieve that is start terrain scratch-building sessions at the storeit's fun, you bond with people, and you end up wanting to make extravagant and non-ordinary pieces of terrain that you will want to play with, and you'll want to make it special so you have a scenario for them
>>97449505Where in Poland are you located?
>>97449425Are 4e splatbooks compatible with 2e?
>>97449751Yes, since C7 hasn't really tried to overlap any of them so far, but stats will need to be converted over
>>97448620could use some wash
>>97449788Thanks buddy
>>97449526I'm afraid no amount of cool terrain will change the mindset of people who field all cathay balloons they can>>97449674Wrocław
>>97448982>beastmen bothering to armor their junk>rather than letting it swing around ready to serve to intimidate the preys
>go look at common TOW lists; YT batreps, Reddit, etc >it's all just one mega deathlord on a monstrous steed, one giant block of useless infantry simply there to pay "core tax" with everything else being small units of cavalry, flyers or monstersSeriously what happened to this game? I thought part of the appeal of WHF was blobs of infantry smashing into each other
>>97450037Some people just have no taste and decency.
>>97450037They're inevitably influenced by "tourney meta"
>>97450037If you look at lowest common denominator WAACfags then expect to see lowest common denominator WAACfag behavior.
>>97450196I wasn't looking at tourney lists though, these are people casually playing the game. It's basically just 40k or AoS with square bases at this point if that's how people are playing.
>>97450032Blame the Diddlers of Slaanesh. My boys get real agressive when you try to get rid of their diddler protection.
>>97446149>TQI really want to start TOW after I make some serious progress on my backlog and finish this semester.So far I've narrowed my choices down to Brettonia, Empire, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen, Cathay, and Wood Elfs.
>>97450037No game intetnet addicts are always like that, ignore them. Nobody in my club plays like that, even during the tournament (they instead all made anti lists against my Brets)
Is there any benefit to the rank and file system over manual placement?
>>97450270that's not very narrowchaos is getting another wave of models for warriors, knights and chosen, so you have a pretty up to date range, and cathay with the second wave is an almost complete range
>>97450440Yes, it looks more like a real period appropriate army. It also makes deployment, movement and engagement one of the primary mechanics for how you win.
>>97450440irregimented units allow for unit fillers, better traceable arcs for line of sight and flanks and rears, speed up movements considerably (and this is the most important point), and they evoke the visual image of classical depictions of battlelines in wargames and historical battles retellings individual models give more freedom in poses and sizes, and make for more "organic" arrangements of units around scenery pieces and enemy unitsI think the most functional compromise is a hybrid of the two systems but instead of having one big square or treating the single model as the smallest fragment of the unit, you have multiple squares, with the smallest fragment being trays of 4 models (and the command group as tokens)
>>97449283This. We have enough boring human factions as is. chinks were already too much
>>97446275I like how the vampire is just lounging like her shoes are killing her.
How likely is a new faction other than kislev being added to TOW? Let's say vampire coast, since they don't seem to be aknowledging vampire counts any time soon
>>97450620very low
>>97448753OHHHH NOOOOOO!!!!! THINK ABOUT GW'S PROFIT MARGINS!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!
>>97450481>it looks more like a real period appropriate army.Is this satire?
>>97450620we have one voice, dude called loremaster of sotek on youtube with some connections, saying that he's been told without doubts that gw has definitely set down how ind is meant to look and what it's meant to contain.now the two questions are whether that's meant exclusively as a document of designs and infos for total war to use, or if there's even a remote plan for them to be added in tow, and whether by "ind" they mean ind as a truly independent faction or just some unit concepts to fold into cathay, since we know there might be a DLC for them that contains tigermen of ind and there have been a few mentions of how some tigermen, and who knows, maybe other ind stuff besides, have been vassalised or taken as mercenaries by cathay; so even if there was a possibility of them becoming tabletop models, they might not be a new faction as much as another cathay expansion.speculations amongst the fans do include vampire coasts getting something, although it's mostly a wishlist, but we've had one big miniatures designer moving from the aos side of products to the tow side of products very recently, which implies a big release getting worked on for a few years down the line, and this designer had just done some impressive undead models for aos, so gw might have moved him to do more undead in tow.but absolutely nothing that's likely or in the short term, they'll probably keep on updating the core factions instead.maybe dogs of war, god willing.
>>97450443>chaos is getting another wave of models for warriors, knights and chosen,yeah, if that happens It's probably gonna be the one I pickUnless that rumor about Wood Elfs in a two player starter is real, then I'd probably go Wood ElfsUnless both of them happen, in which case I'd be in trouble.
>>97450620Depending on how you're defining new...
>>97450620The only other contender is fucking Araby which just got 90% of its lore erased because it involved EVIL Whites defending their borders against them EVILLY. So yeah, doubtful.
>>97450626>>97450665>>97450707>>97450734Sucks. I started a ghost army themed around drowned corpses back when I got into AoS and it was very fun, although the results were awful. Would love some pirates of the caribbean vampires
>>97449674> Immediately assumed Poo-land>>97450004> Anon immediately confirms it Kek
>>97450775I did it based on the name of the image he uploaded.
>>97450768Vampire Coast or Ind are also possible but unlikely. I was expecting Araby until they randomly raped all their interesting Bretonnia/DoW lore.
>>97450775based retard
>>97450645He thinks historical army is just guy standing in a square. You know what really makes TOW a low IQ ruleset is that there is no differentiation between heavy and light cavalry in rules or function, among other things
>>97450920>they randomly raped all their interesting Bretonnia/DoW lore.Was this replace the crusades with a random Tomb King invasion?
Look at this cool troll, don't feed it
>>97450981not even before midnight?
>>97450997never
>>97450973Yes.
>>97450981>feeds him a buncha humiesHurr hurr hurr
>>97450946>there is no differentiation between heavy and light cavalry in rules or functionHow would you fix this? Buff Furious Charge and make it Heavy only? Give Heavy an extra rank of supporting attacks to represent stronger charges?
>>97450281Same with me dude, here’s a 2k game I literally played last Friday. I think it’s just a shitposter desu.>>97450768>>97450620You know the vampire coast list just werks with tow. You’d have to use the old strength- ap system for them but that’s not a hard conversion. Just use the tow core rules. I have used the 6th Ed vamp coast list in 6th and 8th for fun, I’ve considered using it in tow but instead used the tomb kings mortuary cult rules which honestly suits the coast pretty damn well. Only thing you really miss is the bloated corpses. - so with that in mind I’ll see if I can convince my chaos buddy to fight my 6e ‘coast which hurts the most’ list haha.
>>97451406I don't know honestly, id have to put some thought into how I would rework it. That is a good idea about the buff, light cavalry should not get Furious Charge. Also it's pretty stupid that cavalry stand head to head stationary against infantry and engage in protracted melees. That's just not how cavalry is used. Real cavalry would do a mass charge, ride through an enemy formation and cut down some dudes, then immediately peel off and ride away to reset and regroup for another charge. Or if their charge routed the enemy they would keep pursuing and cut down the enemy as they fled. Maybe light cavalry could lose the charge bonus (since they would never charge head on in real life) and instead get an ever better bonus to rear or flank attacks. I don't know how you would translate light cavalry real purpose of screening, scouting, harassment to Warhammers rules to be honest.
How much color should there be in warhammer? Would pic rel turn you off?
>>97451950Damn... BASED masculine female lesbian killing the monster while all the men stand around screaming! So realistic and BAD ASS
>>97451965I think it’s supposed to be a wee lad.
>>97451950It depends on the army, but in general I think your retinas should be burning out from how colorful and bright an army should be. Even a dark army like chaos should be glossy at the very least!
>>97451950Imagine that on the x axis you have a progression of miniatures from the most cartoonish to the most realistic, while on the y axis you have a progression of color schemes from the brightest and most colourful to the darkest and most grimy blanshitsu or medieval hollywood filter.Then I will tell you I don't have any strong opinion in the slightest about any individual combination of coordinates taken in a vacuum but that I will judge a game where there are vastly different styles in the opposing armies.
Well tomorrow is the day. Will the errata please most people I wonder? Will it fall short? 18ish hours to go
>>97452189>Will the errata please most people I wonder? yes, because there are more youtubers whose engagement is from hyping tow than there are ones whose viewership comes doomsaying >Will it fall short?also yes because faq cannot address the issues with the system and gw's interests are against more fundamental invalidations of their products
>>97448753That's always been irrelevant because GW has always profited via Churn more than anything else. Warhammer Fantasy died because GW excreted two editions in a row that alienated new players, first with 7th because of the abysmal army book balance, then with 8th because of the immense cost of collecting an army. The normal lifecycle of a GW customer is about 2-4 years - get into it age 10-12, get birthdays & christmas purchases, spend pocket money, discover girls and underage drinking, decide you're too cool for "nerd shit", leave. That's 99% of GW's customer base. The value of the 1% who stick around and become grogs was never in what they spend, it was the unpaid work they did keeping local communities running, organising events, being club officers, dragging in siblings and nephews and eventually their own kids, and all GW had to give them in return was not completely shitting on the stuff they liked all at once. Which was evidently too much to ask, but it's GW's loss in the end because now they're completely beholden to their heinous "T-sport" model for community management and media produced by third parties for recruitment, so if any of that flounders they're fucked.
>>Thread QuestionContinuing with the Slann.
>>97451950>Mostly believable and historically based weapons, armour, and clothing.Oh yeah baby, that's the good stuff...As for your question, even though the 6th ed style of dark colouring looks good, factions like Bretonnia and the Empire actually do lend themselves to be quite colourful, and other armies can have some pretty striking colour schemes. Naturally this has some limits, as a neon green and orange army wouldn't really work.So yeah Warhammer armies and artwork can be colourful and it would still fit.
>>97452232Well it's simple, grogcucks served their purpose, GW now has dominance and momentum without them, and theyre becoming a liability. The smart decision is to throw grogs kicking and screaming into the trash. It's okay though, a vast majority of said grogs are still cuck consoomers and will purchase the next GW product anyways.
Surprised it only took 1 week to deliver, I thought MTO orders took longer to arrive.The horse has some insane gaps and it funnily is "push to fit", though it doesnt work because the metal bits are warped lol
>>97452361I think I fucked up by waiting with the MTO. I am pretty sure the way it works is they already have a number of each kit sitting and waiting to ship. So the people that initially buy the MTO get it very quickly, the people who order later on in the week are the ones who have to wait for the actual kits to be made for them, so they can wait months. I am completely speculating just off what others have told me about their experiences to be clear.
>>97450734mixing in real cultures was cringe anyway
>>97449449Will give it a look, thanks!
>>97452423nah this has to be true nigga and i’ve ordered from most mto’si like warhamme rfabtays a lot i wish i lived in it instead of this gay jewish evil world
>>97452520Warhammer is pretty cool I agree, but idk if I would want to live there. I am pretty content enjoying the Fantasy world as I currently do.
>>97452361I'm looking forward to getting that mounted chaos lord in the mail whenever he arrives. Even with gaps and warped pieces, he's still really cool and I've wanted to have him in my collection for a long time. I wish I had waited a little bit to put in my order, though. I had to buy that one metal orc shaman to get free shipping 'cause that metal champion on the right was out of stock. He came back in stock only a few hours after my order was placed...
>>97452361I think that now that they know this stuff sells they don't wait for orders and just produce a bunch ahead of timedon't know if it counts as false advertising
>>97450665Wasn't there an outside chance at another brand of wood elves for South East Asia? Might be just an AJ rather than a full army tho.
I have heard from a reputable source that a mixed Beastmen/WoC AoI is coming in an upcoming AJ.
>>97452423I ordered my MTO's minis a week later to get that chaos champion as it was out of stock. Thats why I am surprised I got it quickly, I thought I bought them after everyone.>>97452537Frydaal is also back in stock if you were seeking her too
>>97452677>FrydaalNo thank you mister James Workshop, I'm only interested in buying models I actually like.
>>97452650noa total war short story released alongside dechala had a group of chinks in the south of cathay dealing with her, and the protagonist or narrator was listing the dangers of the surrounding regions and mentioned "wild elves", together with other vague descriptions of things that are clear references to stuff we already know about like lizardmenbut it's likely just wood elves, and certainly not anything that would ever see a model
>>97450768Sounds cool, post em anon
>>97452532i think it would be cool to be a soldier and fight real evil/anti-human forces and have purpose and actually nvm because the empire is/has the capacity to be corrupt and rotten too so maybe it wouldn’t be fulfilling as i previously imagined.
Got two necromancers for my VC army. Both are the current model. Has anyone tried some customization so that they don't look the exact same apart from painting them differently?
>>97452532Probably not the best fantasy place to live in, least of all when a walk in the woods has en even chance of being murdered by angry hippy elves or even worse by rabid furries.
>>97452916>>97452945Yeah both fair points. The best place to live in Fantasy would probably somewhere on the inner ring of Ulthuan. Enjoy High Elf society without the risk of being carried away by a Dark Elf slave raid like on the outer ring.
You guys think a frog helmet too modern for bretonnia? Thinking of replacing the non helmeted head on my bsb.
>>97453047>You guys think a frog helmet too modern for bretonnia?a bit since Brettonia seems stuck on Great Helms and Bascinets, but they are Your Dudes anon, and if you think it worthwhile divergence from normal Brettonian design cues, then go for it.
>>97453047the important part is that your knight isn't in full plate armor, you want him covered by a tabard or at least enough clothing for the personal colors to show, unlike the more uniform knightly orders
>>97453047The KotR on foot kit does have a psuedo-frog helm in the box, so I would say it can work.
>>97451950For most armies loads of colour is preferable; a grail knight and their cohort should be resplendent, same with a lot of factions really, only a few factions work with more drab and muted colours like undead because of rising from the grave, or ogres (because they're often depicted as being too unimaginative to come up with bright uniforms) and hell even then those factions CAN have bright colours, but it's easy to justify not having them.
>>97453047Yes 100%, a frog helm would fit right in the empire,.not Bretonnia
>>97452943Head/staff swap one of them?You could either put a new top on the staff, or just swap out the necromancer head pretty easily enough.Here’s my question, I’ve seen some Orlock kitbashed from the russian aos vampires but has somone done a warhamer scale print for this guy? I wish to have another strigoi.
why did the decide to update the chaos range instead of the protagonists (empire)
>>97452943It's a pretty static pose.Give one a staff swap and a tactical rock/elevated position
>>97453452there's an arrangement between the tow team and the aos team to distinguish and separate the two lines in stricter ways.tow gets norscans and classic warriorsaos gets "conans" and trim-hell warriors>but anon aos warriors are recent and look like classic warriors they'll get another wave relatively soon, it's just that tow is getting revealing theirs first
>>97453047what happens to that guy if it rains?
>>97453771AoS isn't get new Warriors any time soon anon, they've already been updated for AoS twice.
>>97453788free drinks
>>97453452Empire will get is refresh in time for the story to move forward with Magnus unifying it against Asavar Kul.But we need NuKislev first.
>>97453788Called frog mouth for a reason
>>97453788He takes off his helmet and goes inside.. it's a tournament helmet, knigga
>>97453816first time was an etb trial runsecond time was a full kit, but the accompanying chaos knights were still the same etb kit, just with an upgrade sprue for the command squadthey can and will update the warriors with a second full fledged multipart kit and give knights their own first multipart aos kitaos skeleton warriors have also received one etb kit and one multipart that was replaced just a pair of years later
A part of me wants to do a Westerland/Empress Magritte aligned Empire army. But I worry that the story is within 1-2 editions will move past that faction existing, and no one will really get it in the first place. I assume most people just paint their empire armies in whatever colors their chosen province has from the time of original fantasy and not TOW colors. Assuming of course they aren’t doing their own dudes.
>>97453771>classic warriorsWhat even is a "classic warrior", anon? Are the ones from 2004 really classic? They've been around for 22 years, sure, but I don't think that means they're classic. They broke a lot of the previously established design elements that chaos warriors had from 1st-5th edition (pauldrons, trim, helmets with various shapes instead of just different eye-hole/visor/mouth-hole designs), so I don't think they're really "classic". They were designed to look like the 6th ed metal chaos knights (which broke said design elements first, see picrel), but that kit was then immediately replaced with the 7th ed plastic knight kit which brought back certain elements from the earlier (inarguably "classic" at the time) chaos designs that the 6th ed warriors and knights didn't have.So, are the 2004 chaos warriors really classic, or are they just a strange mutation that stuck around long enough to fool people into thinking they are? I'd say "trim-hell" (been a thing since at least 5th and some models from 3rd could also be described like that) is more classic than your "classic warriors", but obviously the AoS models are absolutely not classic by any means seeing as they're derivations of derivations of derivations at this point, and they're stinky and boring, too.
>>97451950Colour's a good thing. Gives real definition when used correctly.
I'm getting more PMonksWhat scheme? I am loving the idea of pink Monks
>>97453452I like the fan theory that the new Marauders were going to be a Norsca release. IIRC full plastic kits like that take about 3 years from start to release, so they'd be starting on them maybe a little before the launch of the game. But the TOW was way more successful than they expected, so they decided to release those kits they already had in the pipeline as Marauders and leave space for a proper Norsca release with more units in the future.
>>97453951>they can and will update the warriors with a second full fledged multipart kitno that doesn't make sense, why would they get a second full multipart kit when they already got their multipart kit? It's not like the current one would get sent to TOW, it's awful for ranking up. There's no reason for them to get a new kit>aos skeleton warriors have also received one etb kit and one multipart that was replaced just a pair of years laterAnd are you expecting them to also get a second multipart kit for some reason?
>>97454157Why would you want an entirely separate micro-faction that could (and should) just be part of an already existing army? I know Total War did it (and they were fools to do so), but this isn't a video game. Don't turn Fantasy into AoS or 40k where there are a million micro-factions. You can play your marauder/Norsca army using the Warriors of Chaos rules like everyone who wanted a Norsca army used to do, and GW even gave you an entire army of infamy for a Norsca-like army in TOW. There were rules for marauder characters released in White Dwarf back in 6th, too.
>>97454169Nta but the skeletons did get something like three kits in the space of two years.The wight king on steed got a new kit that was then replaced again a year later.It's not impossible
>>97454185Why not? Releasing the Marauders was big, but now they can circle back around with a Mammoth and a character kit and full Norsca army list too. People would lose their shit.And this isn't AoS or 40k where it would need a whole separate range and 60 dollar army book. Couple kits, an Arcane Journal, there you go. The existing AJs already tell you to do conversions for some units.
>>97454290>Nta but the skeletons did get something like three kits in the space of two years.they got three releases but only two kits. The Cursed City kit in Cursed City, then that kit got released separately, then the current multi-part kit.
>>97454307The ulfenwatch and the skeleton warrior release shortly after were two separate kits in the same way the Darkwater Pestigors and AoS pestigors are different kits.Same design language, stylistically similar but technically two different kits.Then we got the current deathrattle which is new again.3 kits amigo
>>97454293Nah fuck that. I don’t want them wasting time on micro releases for subfactions. I want them to release shit for the main factions and not veer off to the side
>>97454293Why would this mammoth and character kit not just be part of the Warriors of Chaos army list like the marauders are? There's nothing to be gained by separating the (already anemic to the point of being bled white) chaos army list out into two armies. What's next, are you going to make a Hung army list? One for the Dolgans? No, that's stupid. Norsca isn't special. It's been part of Chaos from the start and that's where it should stay. Also, as mentioned before, you already got a Norsca arcane journal. Just use the Wolves of the Sea list, man. Don't give GW any ideas, they will fuck up Fantasy again if you let them.
>>97454035>Are the ones from 2004 really classic?stopped reading here, the answer is yes
>>97454448I cannot agree with you. It's the 1997 warriors or nothing, if you ask me.
>>97454345huh. that is weird>>97454435>Why would this mammoth and character kit not just be part of the Warriors of Chaos army list like the marauders are?Exactly. It would be a Norsca-themed model release alongside a unique Norsca army list in an Arcane Journal.>It's been part of Chaos from the start and that's where it should stay.It can be both! That's what I'm saying, if the basic core models are there for it in Warriors, then there's no downside to doing a Norsca army list with unique rules and units and characters that are represented through conversions.I don't see why you're opposed to the idea
>>97454462While I don’t agree I can appreciate the conviction of you return to monke fans
Maybe plastic kits took years when they made them for minis sculpted by hand, but with CAD slopping they can generate and slice up an model into a sprue in a couple days of work and have it ready for mould creation in less than a week. Any limitation is due their pipeline being clogged and not having enough production capacity. Not for making moulds, but for creating kits to sell. And that would mean they could prioritize and have certain releases " jump the line " depending on priority/perceived need.
>>97454870>Any limitation is due their pipeline being clogged and not having enough production capacity.Also effort. I get the distinct feeling they don't like using effort.
>>97454870CAD isn't some kind of wunderwaffe AI program that plops out a finished product within seconds of loading up a new project. If it was as easy as you want to think then everyone would be in the plastic kit business, yet most still work with resin and metal.
>>97449674Lol, this is not from Poland, it's from my gaming group, Slavic but jot Pooland
Some more pics
>>97454870Afaik it's the cost of the initial injection mould that is very expensive. It doesnt matter if the model is designed by hand or CAD.https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-miniatures-molds-cost>>97455932Nice looking table but looks pretty painful to play because of how much the terrain limits manouverability.
>>97454107how's the rest or your army painted?
>>97455950I remember archon studio dropping a breakdown of the costs of their plastic moulds and they commented that they can be relatively cheaper than most people think
>muh muh faq muh faq wheres the faq guys whens the faq dropping I cant play games without muh faqkys
>>97452943Paint one as a ghostly glowing green/blow doppelganger and make that one lower level. Do the opposite and build him literally identically.
>>97456198>blowFucking retarded phone. I meant blue. I'm shitting btw not sure if that matters
>>97456205Omg me tooooo~twinsies~
>>97454345>>97454464It's not THAT weird in the grand scheme of things. The cursed city skellies were easy to build versions, with only 10 of them. Then they released the full kit with options (albeit not many) a bit later. Similar to how starter sets will have ETB-versions of models that come out as full kits shortly after, or how whq silver tower introduced tzaangors, acolytes and new blue horrors that got full kits a bit later.Now apparently this skeleton kit was notoriously fragile and prone to snapping so they changed some connections around, and rereleased the kit with these changes (plus a different head for the champion) last year. That part is afaik pretty unusual for gw, but the other two kits releases are par for the course.The "new" wight king on steed only existing for like 2-3 years was far weirder.
What’s the most giga brain retarded thing GW could do with the FAQ?>balloon nerf is just a points increase to 150pts>infantry buffed further
>>97449882Ye, I also have a potato camera.
>>97455925>>97455932cozy as fuck anon, did you paint the terrain?why 6 spirit hosts? that's crazy.>>97456417nerf frenzy further orintroduce some finicky confusing bullshit rule which further complicates skirmishers and recieving and doing charges.changes renegade factions, but only to nerf them again - doesnt adjust spells.
>>97456567>we will not be touching Legacy armies after release>btw here are your Skaven nerfsThis actually happened
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lbzk6erd/reform-your-lines-and-set-out-for-battle-with-a-new-warhammer-the-old-world-balance-updateIt’s out, sky lanterns get fucked
>FAQ wishlist>baloons to 200pts>jet ring loses common>seed of rebirth non behemoth only>all the infantry buffs apply to monstrous Infantry>all chariots get the balloons disengage rule>magic bonus to cast rounds down so no bonus for level 1, +1 for level 2/3, +2 for level 4s
>>97456639Unless you play Cathay or Empire this is fucking boring
Ogre CHADS we are so back
>>97456708Why? We didn’t get any changes
>>97456719All infantry buffs now apply to MI, which Ogres are. AND now the Ironblasters can disengage like the balloon. Which is hilarious and potentially useful.
To dispel you now have to roll a total that exceeds the casting result.
>>97456723Where does it say so?
>>97456647You got the jet ring nerf and that's it.
Wood Elves are now playable right? Right?
>>97456758The points drops help a lot.
When’s the next edition? I’m kind of already burnt out of tow and fell out with the .5 update. Don’t wanna bother relearning it if it’s changing in a year or two, especially for a rank and flank.
>>97456758The Dryads moving 6 inches and gaining armor bane 1 is pretty good, along with the general points decreases. Is it enough? Probably not, but it's a step in the right direction.>>97456774These faqs are pretty minor overall. They like to be exceedingly conservative with changes.
>>97456723Yeah I’m not seeing this anywhere highlighted in red or blue. The MI changes only appear in the renegades pack to my knowledge.I don’t know where you’ve pulled that bit about the ironblaster
>>97456790I guess nothing is stopping people from house ruling that press of battle applies to monstrous infantry too, but we've grown so accustomed to only using the official rules that it's not very likely.
Wow the sky lantern is flammable. T4, loses unbreakable, loses ability to have a champion, the bombs are once per game only now too. Pretty big nerf.
>>97456802For a unit that costs about 100pts I think it’s in line with what it should be now. A mobile gun piece with utility abilities
>>97456779 other than cathay, ofc. balloons about to go on ebay for $20 each
Cathay players not beating the WAAC allegations
For a long time I thought the Albion campaign took place concurrently with the novel Giantslayer (c.2505 IC).Apparently Dark Shadows happened 15 years after the novel.
>>97456639undead also got a nerf with regen not working for unstable now confirmed
I knew it was foolish hoping that my witch elves would get some form of bonus from frenzy or poison getting reverted.
>>97456840>witch elvesnot a real faction, so GW doesnt change them.
>>97456831I never used that anyway because it obviously didn’t work that way. Rules as written is retarded
finally I can play Cathay gloves off. gonna be gud to make more empire player cry.
Toughness 4 flagellants, return to how they used to be?
>>97456849Funnily enough, GW has made changes to the Legacy rules at some point, without announcing it.If you see a Legacy pdf when it first came out, and compare it to the version GW has currently for download you'll see small differences.
>>97456883can you point to any of them?
>>97456898Dark Elves spell Cursing Word was changed from taking a unit's WS down to 1 to only giving a -1 to the unit's WS. The Original Chaos Dwarfs PDF had a fair few formatting errors.
Oh cool, well my welf buddy who only loves the forest spirits will be pleased, with dryads being m6 bane 1, do you think they are better anons?>>97456898Giant rats lost one Str and wsFellblade got nerfed.I think weeping blade also got a nerf but can’t remember.Also warp condenser might have been nerfed too.
>>97456935I still think they’ll snap like a twig
>>97456898It was never explicitly stated that Vampiric Powers could not affect mounts, but now it's written.
Did they not address the glade guard or the enteral guardians?
>>97456945they did, via point changes
Damn, infantry buffed AGAIN
>>97456949They still don’t have a role in the army.
>>97456958thats from last years errata.
>>97456961their role is to die, like every other elf.
Motley Crew for ALL Trolls, fun
>>97456802damn, watch the ebay listings of used balloons explode
is there any site of software like orldworldbuilder that uses the points and stats of the books and without the FAQs?
>>97456774Nobody knows. But the general consensus is that the "next edition" when it comes will probably be more like a new corebook that incorporates the 1.5 errata and maybe a few other small tweaks. Nobody is expecting them to significantly change the game from it's current state.
>>97456802>make waacs buy insanely busted and expensive toys>made enough money, time to roll out the next wave>nerf the shit out of said overpriced toysBased gw
>Quell impetuosity is now a reroll instead of an ignorezog
>>97456802>>97456823>>97457006So is the Cathay Army now unplayable without the balloons?
>>97457006The problem is that this is selection bias. GW release like 20 kits every month. Plenty are mid out the gate. Some are broken strong.
>>97457029no, the balloons were ridiculously overpowered but that doesn't mean the rest of the faction was underpowered
>>97457044ballons were still not as strong as peg knights.
>>97457056Peg knights were easy to counter if you just remembered their crazy charge distance and didn't let them wipe your shit out turn 1
Whoever lied about chaos warriors getting a points reduction, show yourself and repent for your sins against me. God damn chaos spawn now have 2d6+1 movement (still unplayably shit) and nothing else got changed.
>>97457059its your fault for believing everything you read online.
>>97457032there is a bias when they launch products they're unsure aboutwraithknights and imperial knights in 40k were a hazardous release because the size of the kits made it unlikely that many customers at the time would get one, let alone many, and they pushed them out of the gate to be absurdly ridiculous, especially the wraith one, while for the imperial one they maximised the number one could take since they were available as an actual army of their own as well as something you could take in ANY army, and not even just imperial or chaos onesvotann and cathay are both brand new factions, and with a measure of ambivalent opinions about them, and both had a OP rules that were squashed shortly afterand I'm willing to bet a similar thing as the knights will happen with the cogfort to be released for aos soon enough, rumors point to it being perhaps one of the biggest kits gw ever made and inexplicably having rules for other armies to take, so I'm sure gw considers it a risk and will make its rules overpowered to dampen that risk
>>97457064On this board we take leaks as gospel buddyWhen they don't come true, GW is assumed to somehow be the ones who are wrong instead of the leaks
>>97457066ngl if I can take a cogfort with my Sylvaneth I would be incredibly tempted. Maybe do a bit of light conversion so it's got trees growing on it/out of it
1.5 Recap from somebody who knows his stuff:Balloons are nerfed but not done for. They are still hard to catch but can't delete a 20+ unit per turn.Cathay lost a bunch of shootin power because their magic bullshit items were nerfed. They will now focus on Shuggy blenders and their canons, though they are weaker.Graveguard and undead in genera are killable again and like every non-nigger new, regens on crumble were not intended.Royal Peg dukes are dead because they can't join pegasus knights any more. They will now just take barded pegasi and look less cool.Wood elves get a total of 5-27 extra points for army building and Eternal Guard are still fuck-ass bad.Empire Nuln will be the strongest faction if the 6 Canons per army ruling is applied by TOs.Beastmen viletide spam is significantly worse now due to the maths behind going from a 8+ to 9+ o cast in combination with common magic res items.Chaos is still in limbo (good, fuck them), Elves still suck, shooting is still king.
>>97457096>cannons meta
>>97457022I'm okay with this. It's a nerf but I'm not sure it'll matter in 99.99% of the games I play. I'd only care about quelling wolf riders but that's never going to happen since I'll never have a unit who can do that close to them. Disappointing that they didn't address trolls though.
>>97457059Generic Chaos Warriors should be 2A.Chosen should be 2W 2A and every last one should be able to take different equipment and magic weapons, unit size 5-12.Change my mind
>>97457059Why would you even believe that in the first place? Warriors will get their profile adjustment when their new plastic kit is released as part of the hype train. Why would they ruin that bit of free marketing?
>>97457111They're clearly committed to rank-and-file non-monstrous infantry and cav never having more than one wound, that just be the way it be
>>97456802>sky lantern is flammableimplications of this?
>>97457066Meh it's a crapshoot. Gitmob in aos was a big departure from established gloomspite aesthetics and was still garbage on release (though swiftly buffed). Helsmiths of hashut, again kind of ass even though it's the first truly new battletome aos had since 2nd edition, while being a departure of former established chorf aesthetics.
>>97457096That Wood Elf “buff” was the biggest fuck you I’ve seen from GW in a hot minute
>>97457146
Now that cathay has been nerfed into oblivion, what will you excuse be from now on when you lose against them?
lol nice balloon chink, watch this shot m'lord, I only need a 5 now
>>97457152At we didn't get nerfed this time>>97457103Dragon hands typed this post
>>97457111The problem with 2A chaos warriors is that they inherently devalue chosen as an option. Whether or not chosen should even exist as a separate unit rather than being a points-costed upgrade for regular warriors that would give them chaos armour (as in both full plate armour and a 6+ ward save) and +1A is a discussion that should be had. I will remind you that, with the exception of 8th, every time chaos warriors have had 2A they were significantly more expensive with 5th editions 24ppm before upgrades chaos warriors being a good example. That's more than chosen currently cost.As for chosen having 2W, that's not a good idea. Non-monstrous non-character infantry having one wound is a necessary and good design decision for both game balance and flow. A unit needing to lose twice as many wounds before it loses a model from the front rank is a terrible idea. Chosen having motley crew could be fun though, I'd be cool with that. Magic weapons, though, eh. If you mean magical attacks no matter which weapons they're using, then sure, but if you mean paying points to give each individual chosen a magic weapon from the magic item table... no, that's foolish.
>>97457178The dice, what else?
>>97457224Chosen as an upgrade to Warriors would mean they could be core, they're meant to be elites
>>97457194Damn ballista can actually pop a FUCKING PAPER BALLOON now
>>97457225Skill
>>97457224this post is rubbishgiving them 2 wounds is no different than increasing their toughness and savesnormal troops not having more than one wound is not a necessity, it's just an outdated tradition and you cannot discard suggestions to balance something by bringing up how they were made unbalanced in a different wayin a setting where the chaos gods are more distant from their followers there's an argument to be made about making the marks of chaos chosen get be significantly different and more drastic than the ones warriors and marauders can get
>>97457225The jews
>>97456802>sky lantern is flammableI won
>>97456802>Wow the sky lantern is flammabledid they went back to the old edition's definition of flammable or is it still just negation of regeneration?in what way do lanterns even get regeneration?
>>97457260Chosen have been upgrades to core chaos warriors far more often than they've been anything else. I'm not opposed to chosen being in special, but putting them there inherently devalues them and makes it so that chaos warriors have to be worse by comparison. Again, just look at the 8th ed army book. Or look at the absolute state of the chaos list in TOW. Nobody runs them and I'd argue it's partly because they're in special.>>97457267It is absolutely different than giving them better toughness or a better armour save, the latter of which they already have (and a ward save too). Two wounds means their saves have double value, giving them T5 or a 2+/5++ or whatever is nowhere near as powerful. I'm sure you know how awful it is to try to kill anything in this game with multiple saves and multiple wounds, imagine how annoying that would be on a unit of infantry. I want chosen to be good just as much as you do, anon, but I don't think giving them 2W is the way to go. It's a genie you don't want to let out of its bottle, people will start expecting other comparable units (e.g. temple guard, waywatchers, blood knights, grail knights, etc) to get 2W as well and then it's just an arms race. Call it a slippery slope or whatever, but it's not an idea that I think should be entertained. There are other ways to make chosen fun, strong, and worth taking that won't destabilize the rest of the game and break a long-standing tradition, and you should know better than to fuck with tradition.Also, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say I'm bringing up anything being unbalanced in a different way. If you mean my point about chaos warriors in 5th edition, to my knowledge they weren't unbalanced and were just as worthless as any non-character unit was in that edition.
>>97457103>picChorfs also have a cannon, no?
>>97457361They only get it through magic items bought through a strategist. And yeah flammable is still as retarded as it was.Why it doesn’t just work like ‘dry as dust’ does idk
>>97457371they don't have real cannons
>>97457371I fucking wish they only have the hellcannon as their multiple would cannon
>>97457366>It's a genie you don't want to let out of its bottleI absolutely do.And no, you're wrong, a model with 1 wound but a 2+ save is not particularly different from a model with 2 wounds but a 3+ save.
>>97457361Using the character and putting him on a sky lantern with regeneration
>>97457267This all being said, your point about marks is a good one, but TOW has already fucked that up too many times for me to be on board with the idea. Forsaken, chaos spawn, and gigantic chaos spawn all have pseudo-marks that do completely different things and I don't like it. Setting that aside, if the marks of chaos, arguably the most iconic army special rule in all of Warhammer, are so boring, weak, and poorly designed that you have to come up with entirely new ones for your super-elite units (remember, chosen knights also exist), there are greater issues at hand. Fix the regular marks, make them all actually interesting and worth taking, and then and only then should we be talking about giving chosen super special marks.
>>97457446You cannot seriously expect anyone to be able to make up perfectly balanced marks that are exactly as useful and thematic on all unit types from basic infantry to elite cavalry to monsters to lords and wizards.
>>97457096As a chaos anon fuck you. Its a pain in the arse unless you want to run zoo lists.
>>97457423But they don't only have a 2+ or 3+ save, they have a ward save too. You're also not accounting for weaponskill, S vs. T, AP, and my earlier point about unit frontage and how many wounds it takes before you start losing attackers. 2W infantry will soak up more attacks and be able to fight back with more attacks in return. We can talk about the statistics and the "mathhammer" (an odious concept if there ever was one) but at the end of the day I think it's best if we stick to the wisdom of tradition. 2W non-monstrous non-character infantry should never and will never happen, and if it does the game will be in dire straits indeed.>>97457468I'm not asking for balance. Marks weren't balanced in 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, or 4th, or 3rd and they were great. I'm asking for them to be fun. I'm asking for them to actually do interesting things, ideally things that actually interact with the rest of the army book beyond just "this single character/unit forces re-rolls on hit rolls of 6!" or "if you pay a massive points tax you can make a wizard joined to this unit cast better!" or "this mark actively makes your unit worse!" or "just take Enhanced Reflexes, panic never actually happens!". I'm asking for marks to give you access to more than just a single spell. Remember when marks gave you access to magic items and entire spell lores? I do, and I liked it, and I want that to happen again.
>>97457263>bolt throwers doing anythinglol lmao
>>97457366>Chosen have been upgrades to core chaos warriors far more often than they've been anything else.They were an upgrade in 6e and 6e only. And 6e chaos was dogshit.
Into the garbage bin you go CathayThis company really, really wants the game to be TK and VC only
>>97457111Chaos warriors should be 2A, chosen should be 3A ws6.
>>97457594At least Undead are slightly less unfun to fight now.
>>97457517>they have a ward save tooOh no! the dreaded 6++
>>97457517>I'm not asking for balance!>I don't want them to be weak!the only logical conclusion is that you're only ok with them if they're overpowered or if your army is somehow made more special than all other armylists
>>97457225climate change
>dwarfs nerfed for no reason>TK and VC virtually untouched
>>97457468>MoK+1A on the charge>MoSImmune to Panic>MoTLevel 1 bound spell, +1 to cast per 10 unit strength>MoN-1 to be hit with shootingThere. Done.
>>97457646How were dwarfs nerfed?
>>97457626That is explicitly not what my post said, anon. Read it properly or don't bother replying at all. I don't want my army to be broken. I don't even want it to be strong. I want it to be internally balanced and fun, which is exactly what it isn't right now.
>>97457646>TK and VC virtually untouchedGood.
I've said it before, but if you cant make chaos stand out then you're game is mediocre at best. >>97457646I have dwarf fatigue
>>97457390But how can that be? That a faction famed for warmachines not have cannons, yet the primitive Dorfs do?>>97457401Yeah. Not much can be done about it, I suppose.
>>97457626NTA but theres a difference between "you want them to be equally good for all units at all times" and "overpowered" and "weak". Marks were fine in most previous editions, there were better or worse marks (MOK has historically been bad for characters post 6e) but they were impactful, powerful, and fun for the most part. In ToW theyre just "do nothing", its not that theyre weak (they are by the way), its that theyre inconsequential. Even if they were properly priced (which for the state of marks currently means "free" given you lose the mark of chaos undivided for them) you probably wouldnt take them or really care about them. THATS the problem. In the pursuit of "balance" and to placate the babies that cried about 8e /7e marks they ended up being irrelevant garbage you simply dont notice in regular play because they make no meaningful difference in meaningful play. It doesent matter whether MoN does or does not make a statistically significant defensive difference (it doesent, not since they removed the bedazzling helm dragon combo - which was good of them to do btw) it simply does not feel appreciable in game, you never go into a situation and go "man, I really felt that reroll 6s to be hit".
>>97457593Chaos armour being a 7 ppm upgrade for warriors in 4th and 5th is what I was referring to, but yes, explicitly, chosen being a specific named upgrade was only in 6th. On that note, to present a point in favour of 2W chosen warriors, both chaos warriors and chaos marauders (which were analogous to today's chosen and warriors) had 2A and 2W back in 3rd. They were also priced at ~80 and ~40 ppm though, so keep that in mind.
>>97457706I would not use 3rd (or 4th, or 5th) as examples of balance necessarily. Unless you want 30 attack chaos lords in the equation. I think ALL basic infantry and cavalry being 1w is fine, and as there is no current exception to that situation I do not think chosen should be the start of it. Chosen are however simply overcosted and understated for what they are, especially since theyre 0-1 per army special for some reason. They should either be made core by chaos lords/exalted champions, or have a MUCH higher damage output (just make ensorcelled weapons give whatever (non magical) weapon you use -1AP and magical attacks, its not hard)
>>97457517>they have a ward save too. You're also not accounting for weaponskill, S vs. T and my earlier point about unit frontage and how many wounds it takes before you start losing attackersThese literally do not matter, math in hand, throw 100 attacks against the same ws, t and ward save, but different and equivalent combinations of wounds and armor, and you get the same identical amount of dead models, statistically speaking >APthis is the only thing that matters because modifiers aren't linear, but not only it doesn't matter as much as you think it would, but it creates multiple dimensions for a profile to specialise in, in good game design that's called a feature
>>97457732I agree, my point regarding 3rd ed warriors having 2W was not about balance, it was about tradition and there having been 2W infantry in the distant past. I am absolutely not in favour of 2W infantry, I was just conceding a point to the other side of the discussion for fun. I also agree with most of what you're saying regarding the state of chosen at the moment, but I think having conditional core based on taking specific characters is risky business. Unless the entire army list is designed around that (see 6th ed chaos), I think that's going to open a can of worms. It chosen are to be in special, make them special. Conditional buffs or changes to units contingent on army composition are a bit too 40k-like in my opinion. Either make a change happen all the time or don't make any change at all.
>>97457695>But how can that be?magma cannon uses the flamethrower rulesmortar and hellcannon use the catapult rulesthe iron demon's cannons shoot grapeshots, not cannonballs
>>97457646why would they touch a legacy faction? they are not meant to played in tournaments in the first place?
I have to redo dozens of unit cards with the FAQMeanwhile, I have finished one of my 3 crypts
>Cathay didn't get any carrots to go with the repeated stick beatingsIt couldn't even get something basic like regen 6+ on a sentinel base?
>year of our lord 2025+1>Still can't run an all treekin list on WElvesI sleep
>>97457845Cathay is going to have broken units with the upcoming journals so WAACfags get the new peasant units THEN GW will nerf them in 6 months
>>97457777Before we argue this point further, are you proposing that these 2W chosen also see a commensurate points increase? With the context of 3rd edition, I can perhaps see your point if your 2W chosen cost a shitload of points. I'm not going to bother doing the math because I trust you as a fellow anon and I believe what you're saying, but the point of unit frontage and lost attacks incurred by models dying still stands. 10 succesful wounds against 10 1 wound models with 2 attacks = you get zero attacks back. 10 succesful wounds against 10 2 wound models with 2 attacks = you get 10 attacks back as 5 of these theoretical 2W chosen would still be alive. It is my opinion that 2W infantry on 25/30mm bases would be too strong in close combat as a result of this even if their points cost was incredibly high, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. Wounds do sometimes happen in a vacuum (see shooting), but melee is a different story.
>>97457096>ViletideUnderstandable and acceptable. But beastmen also got two pretty good buffs with the centigor and minotaur cost reductions.
>>97457096>Beastmen viletide spam is significantly worse now due to the maths behind going from a 8+ to 9+ o cast in combination with common magic res items.Nah, you're still getting a shit ton of stacking to your cast rolls in Wild Herd so its gonna be good overall, just not busted.
>>97457856Peasants and a gun line is going to be broken?
>>97457851bro your sylvaneth?
No discussion about the FAQ?
>>97457879big blob of infantry and shooting are actually viable, so yeah
>>97457858>10 succesful wounds against 10 1 wound models with 2 attacks = you get zero attacks back. 10 succesful wounds against 10 2 wound models with 2 attacks = you get 10 attacks back as 5 of these theoretical 2W chosen would still be alivethose 10 successful wounds are going to cause the same amount of models when you're comparing 2+ armored models (that have 1 wound each) and 3+ armoured models (that have 2 wounds).I'm not comparing 2W models with 1W models where nothing else changes, then of course they would have to cost more, unless you were going for an unilateral buff for an negatively unbalanced unit.
>>97457845Cathay is STILL overpowered, they got incredibly minor nerfs and would still be a strong army in their current state, let alone the fact that theyre getting a 2nd wave soon.
A break from my renegade crowns Estalian mercenary company to show a hobgoblin khan I'm working on. Never was really interested in Chorfs but seeing some 3rd party sculpts with the big hats has tempted to go grab some and field them as mercenary dwarfs with my estalian company.
>>97457995Fair enough, that's where I was misunderstanding your point. 2W infantry still isn't to my taste, but as an experiment I suppose it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
>>97457990If that's all it takes to break the game, then the units are the broken thing, the system is
>>97457845Cathay did not need any carrots
>>97457980What is there to discuss? They nerfed cathay a little, didnt change much else. 1.5 this is not.
Ultimately I give this an 8/10 for an update.Nerfs were 10/10: Cathay weakened without being dumpstered, Viletide is weaker but still viable, and Royal Peg Duke is no longer a skirmisher (he will probably not see play anymore though).Buffs were 6/10: Points on WE helps (my friends list got an extra 50 which is an extra item/banner or two) but nothing crazy. Overall its like an 7 or 8/10
>>97458169I think thats fair. There isnt a single objectionable nerf there (maybe not enough nerfs? but well see), but I dont see those buffs making much of a difference.
>>97458189Considering there have been rumours of an updated rulebook coming out sometime this year, maybe the design team for TOW didn't want to rock the boat too much with this FAQ
>>97458169Agreed, tho I rate the buffs 7/10. I did want one change to make infantry charging infantry better cause that clearly favors the defender now meaning they kind of don't like doing it. But otherwise I like it.
>>97458199They should just make the +1 rank to infantry not work against other infantry. Since presumably the idea is the infantry surrounding the foe and enveloping them with superior numbers and smaller size (which doesent work vs other similar size models)
>>97458195Yea, small incremental changes are probably better than "war baloons 200pts now, also light chariots, 6+ armor and 4w base"
As a casual beastman player I am not mad over the viletide change, and the point decrease on the Taurs and the centigors are nice even though I do not own any centigors for now, wished Bestigors got some point reduction or W increase, but I take what I get
>>97450583Yeah, that's the theme. She's a lazy noble cunt.
>>97457834the stone needs some more color variance, moss, drips, dust...also paint that base rim
Also next FAQ in the next few months, so I'd wager before 40k 11e drops
>>97458334No one asked for input or criticism you fat autistic retard
>>97458336probably to accompany the chaos warriors release
