Heavy Metal Noise Edition>Cyberpunk 2020 vs. Cyberpunk RED?Cyberpunk 2020 is the second edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG by R. Talsorian Games, set in a (then) future inspired by film noir and the dark science fiction films and books of the late 20th century. It focuses on simulationist gameplay and lethal near-future combat.Cyberpunk RED is the latest edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG, set during the aftermath of the devastating Fourth Corporate War. It focuses on more balanced, streamlined gameplay and is currently supported by R. Talsorian Games.>Resources for RED:https://datapool2045.net/>RED has free DLC and extra content, including character sheets:https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloadable-content/>RED Easy Mode is available for FREE:https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/409912/cyberpunk-red-easy-mode>Errata Pages:https://rtalsoriangames.com/errata/>Previous Thread:>>97290472Feel free to discuss Shadowrun here as well, since I feel bad for those guys.>Thread Question:ACPAs have finally been added to RED! How do you feel about them?
New Q&A sesh with Mike:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiCgcib6VkI
What's the verdict on Interface 5?
>>97447372It's pretty good.
>>97447101Fucking game got cancelled tonight. Looks like we're putting off Agents of Desire for another week.Also, thanks for reposting, OP, I tried and fucked it up.
>>97447101Homebrew anon did better
Starting 2020, any recommendations on premade games and modules and such? I had my eye on red conflict in deep space but I feel that one may be a bit too much for a new group
>>97447372Good shit with some decent game-changers. Autofire buffs, variable gun ranges, ACPAs. Might be the most combat-impactful supplement since the Martial Arts expansion.
In other news, Night City 2045 sourcebook is aiming for a June release.
>>97448487glad we finally got a release month>halfway through the yearfuck
I didn't realize 3y3 is down too. I hope you guys find this useful. I'm not as good of an archiver as the pirates but I hope this works. https://rebrand<dot>ly/cyb3rpunktg swap the 3>>97447372>>97447101I really like it, 40 pages of solid stuff. I think the range bands are a bit crazy (I use the app where weapons have their ranges in a convenient dropdown, I'll definitely buy Interface 5 through that) but I think Machine Pistol autofire is exactly what autofire needed, especially on the Helix which was supposed to be a close-quarters weapon. I also like the general power level increase. I'm glad my duplex bullet idea from many threads ago was made canon with high velocity ammo because I thought it was kinda mean to players. High precision is pretty fun 'win more' ammo and explosive ammo is great because crits are funny. Honestly a lot of these feel like presents for referees. And for 400eb I can make an excellent sniper rifle that deals 6d6 damage (but takes a round to lock in).As for ACPA, I think the official ones are fine for people who don't want to think a lot about it. ACPA having less HP than my motorcycle is weird. And the power scale has definitely gone up with more common Autofire 5 and 6d6 sniper rifles at Merc level. I like homebrewbro's solution where ACPA can last a long time but unlucky crits (which will happen when you're flinging around 6d6+ attacks casually) could cripple an ACPA way before it's time. Plus a crippled ACPA is way faster to repair than a zero'd one.>>97448029I'm a big fan of Night City Stories especially with the world building and introducing cool locations like the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. My only complaint was that every gig begins with the job giver blowing up your player's stuff then demanding they do a job or else. I guess it was another time. Bonin Horse and Arasaka Brainworm were fun but might be too challenging for a new crew. And Edgerunner's Inc. for inspiration.
>>97447101>ACPAs have finally been added to RED! How do you feel about them?What the hell is an ACPA?>Quick Google says it's some kinda power armorSounds cool, I guess? Like a lot of endgame toys, it sounds like something most players won't ever interact with unless you have some quick start or homebrew setup. I prefer FBCs because I'm a big fan of Robocop and similar media.
>>97448705>ACPA having less HP than my motorcycle is weird.Maybe, but even the weakest ACPA armor is equal to an armored car, and the vast majority will have superior armor than that, so your effective HP may be much higher depending on damage rolls. Not to mention that ACPAs can bullet-dodge too, depending on their build and pilot. They may not soak as much damage, but they can avoid it better.
>>97448726ACPAs were extremely powerful suits of combat armor in 2020, some big enough they were practically mini-mechas. RED has brought them back, rebalanced to be less "fuck you I win" than they were before but still plenty potent tools that are, yes, more likely to be seen in high-power campaigns which the new supplement has introduced and dubbed "Mercenary Level".>I prefer FBCs because I'm a big fan of Robocop and similar media.You can have both. FBCs are popular pilots for ACPAs. They're able to link and control the systems with less stress, and they don't take damage from crits to the ACPA like fleshies do.
>>97448746I'd be afraid to take it out of the garage. I'd hate to save up a bunch of eddies to get a new mech only for it to get blasted on the first outing. Can you get insurance to pay for repairs?If they were corpo supplied and the repair and upkeep cost was subsidized by your corpo handler, that wouldn't be as bad for me. Presumably, mercenary groups might have some lucrative deals with corps to make owning and operating one more feasible.
>>97448763The book strongly suggests that for mercenary players, their employers give them operational budgets, which can include things like weapons, vehicles, and ACPAs. You're "renting" them, since the employer will want them back after the job. You'd need eddies in the 50k range to start thinking about buying/building one for personal ownership.And like vehicles, a completely wrecked ACPA takes a week to repair. So if it blew up to pieces, so long as you could get a truck to haul it to a workshop, it can be fixed up good as new.
>>97448763No insurance, but there are special rules for repairing ACPAs, since they're built for turnaround out of a garage. While making parts can take a lot of time, assembly is a day's work base (though not an easy check). Repairs (so long as it's not fully destroyed) vary from 4 hours to a day and are actually relatively easy.It actually means that fixing the armor on an ACPA is the fastest way to get metalgear+ level protection back up and running. Heavy Metalgear on its own is a Luxury item and needs a full month to be repaired, but an ACPA with Heavy Metalgear on it takes a day if it's not totaled and only a week when it's trashed (and a MUCH EASIER DV).Repairing the ACPA also repairs all its weapons and systems, so any Ironman wannabes are a fucking menace to keep down if they can haul back to the garage.
>>97448783>You'd need eddies in the 50k rangethis is wrong, the book prices range from around 12k to 61k but a lot of ACPAs fall between in the 20k, 30k, and 40k prices ranges
>>97448790Indeed. While it'd be hard to assemble, you could theoretically have an APCA with these rules starting at 6000 eddies. It would be a hell of a shitbox, but it would work.I'm actually gonna run some numbers real quick to see if deal-with-the-devil and starting funds can put one together.
>>97448817Yup. Not as such. 4000 eddies gets you just the buy in on the frame and has you short on the plugs you need to pilot it, the frame and the armor; but it's far from out of reach. You buy your 2 sets of plugs for 1000 eddies; you'll need 3000 more eddies to get all the basic parts, then whatever you want to stuff into it to actually do work. Given its relatively light constitution, the Sewer Rat has the right idea with some pop-up shields; we can start with a pair for 2000 eddies. That means if your crew are willing to pool together, you can have a minimally viable APCA after two jobs. Stuff some poor quality rocket launchers in there (lets say 2) pick up a shitty SMG with one hand and with the other, the largest I-beam you can find and you're nominally in business. Final cost: 9600 eddies; 10,600 after interface plugs.
>>97448869*9200 eddies, 10,200 after plugsFucking math bro.
>>97448544Yeah I'm thinking the 2077 book is going to be another rusted chrome.>>97447372It's good but still leaves alot to be desired imo.Pros>Sniper Rifles are actually good now>New Ammo types are nice>Autofire is more viable Cons>Most of the new weapon tables are granularity for granularity's sake>ACPAs are a nice addition but are underwhelming mechanically
>>97448978>Most of the new weapon tables are granularity for granularity's sakeIsn't that the point?
>>97449010It's more this issue the game is adding to the amount of tables you need to reference without actually adding much depth. Some of the weapon tables are welcome additions like the Scout Rifle but overall I don't see why the game needed to make the distinction between say an Assault Rifle and Battle Rifle when their tables aren't drastically different and fulfill the same mechanical role of "high powered mid to long range weapon." It's just R.Tal being spergy for the sake of it. Streamlining things and not caring about realism 99% of the time but then being weirdly granular about certain things. See the skill list in the corebook.
Are full-borgs in 2020 as terrifying as a lot of people claim or are they actually a lot less intimidating than they look?Also what is everyone's favorite FBC? Mine is probably the Sheol.
>>97449091You're not wrong but I don't see a problem with RTal enabling players to be spergy about their guns if they want to be.>See the skill list in the corebook.On the other hand, unlike 2020, they don't want to add more skills, ever. No supplements with 5 new skills that you have to tack onto the list of shit you need to remember.
>>97449127except martial arts obv
>>97449127Like it's fine as a "there if you want it" feature, but I dunno I think R.Tal often has a "quantity over quality" problem with their works. They take forever to put anything out and I can't help but feel like the bloated nature of their releases is a contributing factor. The new tables also make statblocks for weapons a little messier since now you've got to denote what range table the weapon uses instead of it being inferred by the weapon type. A minor issue, but something I noticed.
>>97449180yeah their output on very important shit is disgustingly slow, it should not have taken this many years to get a fucking Night City book when they do absolutely nothing to write about anywhere else in the world. and whatever their process is, it's sloppy enough that they had to cancel Rusted Chrome. the fuck is going on in that company?you are also right about statblocks but unless the players are wielding the whole list you only really need a fraction of it. or just force the players to remember their own damn DVs.
All of the new ammos feel pretty anti-player>ammo that makes crits harder to heal>ammo that makes crits more frequent but -2 attack (doesn't matter much in an ambush)>ammo that works best with solos (a hardened mook can be rank 2 solo)>ammo you can't dodge (npcs don't dodge unless ninjas or coke'd out bozos)Obviously the crew can use these too, but the effects are more long-lasting (and man I love crits).
the damage from getting run over by a car seems low in red. should it be bumped higher since its 300 tons of metal flying at a gonk or am i missing something with the 6d6 dice other than higher chance for crits?
>>97451763the dodge dv being a static 13 is hilariously low as well.
>>97451763I think it also ignores SP. But yeah 6d6 won't even kill the average gonk with 30 HP on average.
>>97452042always found it weird nobody brings up the 13 DV to dodge a car on 'people dodging bullets' debates. Makes bullet dodging even more stupider.
>>97449100>Also what is everyone's favorite FBC?Grafted muscle and bone lace
I don't follow what you're supposed to do for parrying in 2020. I've never seen it come up so it's not some pressing issue but I was reading the book and got confused. What does it mean expend damage against the parrying object? Does the person parrying make a damage rill and that's the number to beat? It can't be besting the weapons SP/SDP right, because they don't list those sorts of stats
>>97451135>npcs don't dodgeI don't think you've shot enough NPCs anon.
>>97453755well, it's true that most of the statted npcs don't have 8 or higher in reflexes, so they can't dodge incoming bullets
>>97453850Eh, QED. Fair enough.
>>97448705Reading through NCS, it seems pretty cool. 12 per person on full mission complete feels like a lot of money, especially for a starter adventure though
>>97451763the part that bothers me is that hitting a dude with a car gives everyone in the car whiplash. even if you were driving a truck? people would bounce off the hood like rubber.>>974550422020 has weird ideas of party sizes. All the suggested campaign ideas were pitched like you were playing with 10 to 12 people, like playing three medias and four solos with a nomad a tech and a medtech is normal play.
>>97455266>Pick your district from one of the 20 offered>Choose a corporate favourite and gain goodwill with that corporation>This adventure suited for 400 000 - 850 000 players
Finally finished our Deadlands game, Shadowrun 2e session 0 next week. I am excited.
>>97455407based
>>97449220I also appreciate that they're moving away from describing all their items with jargon and having proper statblocks for weapons, but they still find a way to make them messy.Every weapon has a "classification" which seems like useless information when all the relevant information is already stated and the "classification" infers nothing aside from the weapon's quality. Why not just state the weapon's quality instead?>>97451135I feel like Cyberpunk Red has always been very "anti player." Alot of the item list is NPC fodder items and the way the game goes out of it's way to tune items to make them less attractive to players.
>>97455954i don't understand the new "Machine Gun" category, what it's for or why it was made. They're still just Assault Rifles.
>>97455982Do you get ammo drums that let you spray down enemies and do suppressive fire? That might be cool>increase the ranged DV to hit for any enemies you damage and reduce their movement speed>This simulates making someone dive for cover or crouching down instead of aiming at you.
>>97456050Most of the new machine guns do have large ammo capacity, and autofire for attacking and suppressive fire.
>>97455982>>97456050Well in Red's corebook itemization every weapon had a classification because each weapon classification inferred a specific statblock. For example an Assault Rifle was a weapon that did 5d6/Autofire 4, had 25 rounds, used the Shoulder Arms skill for single fire and rolled off the Assault Rifle range tables.In this new system, weapon stats are more malleable, so really calling something a "machine" gun is pointless because there is no standardized machine gun. There's a Machine Gun Autofire table, but not all Machine guns use that table.
>>97455982Well, for starts, it disqualifies them in their own splat from having their range-band changed as they are not "Assault Rifles" and can't then take the assault rifle Range Table Modification.Additionally, it's short-hand for using the Heavy Weapons skill. All Machine Guns that can be fired in single shots use Heavy Weapons.Basically, Machine Guns are a defined class of weapons that are fired with heavy weapons and/or autofire skill.
>>97456132>>97456175Actually after re reading the splat, the classifications do have a purpose and aren't just flavour.
>>97453523It means the parrying object gets damaged and the GM has to decide how much punishment can it take.
>>97453523Parrying is a really strange I’d say actually bad system in 2020.Basically you just declare parry at the start of the turn with some item you are carrying and the melee attack hits that item and deals damage to it and soaks that damage for you based on how many hitpoints the gm decides the object has.if you are using a sword/monosword you instead roll a d10 to determine if your sword blocks the strike or shatters. Literally no input is made from the players actual skills so a fat paraplegic downie parries at the same luck and akill level of a master swordsman.
>>97455042>>97455266Meant to say 12k per person. Also there's one part where the players get 12 seconds to disarm a bomb IF they notice it or take 8d10 damage
