anyone else feels there's something wrong with modern fantasy and fantasy fans? i watched frieren the other day and it has been hyped as the best fantasy story of the decade but i just feel it was bland and unamaginative. is like everything these days is a copy of something else. what happened with cultural giants like the original lotr movies? has fantasy lost its appeal? i'm just getting old?
>what happened with cultural giants like the original lotr movies?copying or "reinterpreting" tolkien is also bland and unamaginative
>i'm just getting old?Well, if you're not an adolescent any more then you probably shouldn’t expect media aimed at and hyped by adolescents to be a perfect fit for you.
>>97451291>watching trannimeNot saying all anime is trannime but that certainly is
>>97451291>anyone else feels there's something wrong with modern fantasy and fantasy fans?Depends on the modern fantasy and fan in question, but not generally, no>what happened with cultural giants like the original lotr movies?You arent a kid anymore and modern people wont soley consume old fantasy of their parents days>has fantasy lost its appeal?No, not at all>i'm just getting old?Maybe. I dont know you.
>>97451291>Modern fantasy>AnimeSir, this is a traditional games board.
>>97451291>Frieren is trashCool. Show me your work of art that you made when you were 19
>>97451291Try watching Dungeon Meshi. It is far better fantasy anime/manga than Frieren because even though the setting is pretty generic, it still has some actual worldbuilding in it and for the lack of better term, has genuine "soul" to it. Whereas in Frieren the setting is just a backdrop for the boring as shit characters to travel through, and the anime might as well be an isekai story given how much of outright videogame tropes and anachronistic shit in it there is.Dungeon meshi is also top comfy.
Most fantasy nowadays is just "current time, trends and politics but weird clothes" so it's not that different from real world shit.
>>97451291>Modern fantasy>AnimeRead some fucking books, faggot.
>>97451291Sounds like your problem is listening to hype. Hype is always retarded.
>>97451291>Normies have shit taste>OP is still young enough to be surprised by thisYou must be at least 18 to post on 4chins.
>>97451311reading comprehension mate. when lotr came out they became a cultural phenomenon and were genuinely innovative for the time because big fantasy trilogies didn't exist back then. closest thing was harry potter.>>97451386i tried reading dungeon meshi but the super low stakes and jokes about everything put me off. i like more serious stuff but i liked the vibe since it shows that the author is a big rpg nerd. maybe i should give it another try.
>>97451291All storys are based of something. There is nothing new under the sun just wellcrafted remixes vs slop.And if you make something for money going out of bounds to try something new can be a real financial risk.Tolkien as wonderfull as he was did not done anything new. He just overworked himself butchering the north mythology to the point noone else feels the need to redo the process and just copies his homework.
>>97451456>big fantasy trilogies didn't exist back then.Motherfucking Star Wars? Sorry, I guess you're too young to remember.
>>97451291Not for nothing, OP, but what were you expecting? And this isn’t a jab at you for your tastes, I’m legitimately curious what kind of show you were looking forward to based on the hype. Cause as far as fantasy works, it does go against the grain. But that grain is a trillion shitty isekai slop stories with OP protagonists, fill-in-the-blank waifus and copy-paste jrpg style worlds, so Fieferen comes out ahead by default for most anime fans for not being one of those.Cause yeah, I can see why it might not be enjoyable, it’s intentionally a slow grind story and either grab you in the first few episodes or not, but we’d need to know what you were expecting before we judge if it’s you or just the hype overinflating what kind of story Fiefern’s Journey was to you. LookIt’s u
>>97451474NTA but try explaining how Star Wars is space fantasy to a normie.
>>97451456>low stakesHow far did you get into it? Because it becomes pretty apparent quite fast that the stakes aren't actually low at all.
>>97451405Isnt that the fucking case. Its always so jarring. A fantasy world never feels right if its just a modern setting moved into fantasy. If the characters could just be moved straight into an office setting and their personalities wouldnt change its pretty shit.
Made in Abyss is genuinely one of the best and most unique fantasy adjecent anime/manga to come out in well over a decade. It basically wholly avoids the standard fantasy tropes and does it's own thing with the setting and the story. There is quite nothing like it and I can't recommend it enough to anyone who is bored of the stale fantasy cliches most fantasy anime has these days.
>>97451489why? there's already dozens video essays on this topic
>>97451456>adapting a 50 year old book was innovativeIt wasn't even the first LotR film.
>>97451509Too many lolis pissing and bleeding for me, but you do you anon
>>97451541It is understandable if one can't get past the paraphilias of the author as they can be a bit much however to me, they don't really even detract from the story. There is an aspect of childish innocence to most of the interactions that borderline on fanservice between the characters etc, that helps to frame them within the story, even though it is pretty obvious why Tsukushi actually chose to include those parts in the scenes.
>>97451347Maybe you need to stop thinking about trannies so not not everything you think about is has something to do with trannies.
>>97451509Yeah, for what's essentially "megadungeon with a gimmick" there's some wild ideas.
>>97451474yeah because star wars and lotr are the same genre>>97451499before they save the fat chick and defeat a bunch of living armor
>>97451509It's garbage that just uses an interesting premise to lure you in only to turn into torture porn.
>>97451600You dropped it pretty early on then as the living armor are featured in chapters 6-7 out of 97 chapters.
>>97451509I like the premise, despise the child torture porn execution
>>97451590It has fantastic aesthetic direction as well. Plus the anime has 10/10 ost.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFzDQ2OjFko>>97451625People who call MiA toture porn just reveal the fact that they haven't actually watched/read the series. The traumatic shit that happens to the characters isn't glorified in any way. For example Riko getting injured by the Orb piercer is treated as a traumatic life or death situation that takes multiple chapters for Riko to recover from. There is no "torture porn" in the scene, just the depiction of injury and it's consequences.
>>97451646>It just focuses on the misery of children bro dont read into it.
>>97451509made in abyss idea can be traced back to Jules Verne - "Journey to the Center of the Earth" mixed with the H.P. lovecrafts tier monsters.
>>97451646>People who call MiA toture porn just reveal the fact that they haven't actually watched/read the series.Nah, they're just duckspeaking socially-approved opinions that they can point to and say "See? I said socially approved slogan! I'm normal!"
ITT: French philosophers defend Made in Abyss
>>97451656It in no way focuses on misery of children. The overall tone of the series is hopeful and bittersweet. The characters are on a dangerous adventure, so pain and suffering at times are to be expected but those moments don't define the series and each such event that has brought pain to the characters has been something they have overcome and emerged out from with stronger bonds with one another. Characterising the series as miseryporn or some sort of indulgence in suffering of the characters entirely misses the point, when the overall theme is how friendship and spiritedness can overcome the cruelty and harshness life throws their way.
>>97451687I am always willing to defend what I consider 10/10 art.
>>97451679I will never understand what compells people into performative moralfagging on 4chan.
>>97451725zoomies and younger millennials grew up with a literal Big Brother apparatus and the metoo movement>imaginary "sins" can exist>everything is being recorded>public deviation from week to week changes could mean permanent reputational harmThey know their posts can be tracked here, so if they put up enough performative posts tied to their IP, they can create a permanent record, or evidence dossier, that proves they were "on the right side of history"
>>97451744>They know their posts can be tracked hereWhat sort of narcisism do you have to operate on in order to think that anyone would bother trying to trace your anonymous shitposts to 4chan, especially when only reason for something like that to even happen is basically in an outright criminal investigation involving either terroristic acts or threats?
>>97451758Not that don't I agree with you, but /v/ has been tracked pretty hard recently, with people getting banned and reported to corpos for posting leaks.
>>97451646For me it is Old Stories.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ykHvKBNUfU
>>97451646>>97451790Do you fools not even hear the rumble of scientific triumph?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-x4ttQioNw
>>97451824Bondrewd completely steals the show in every scene he is part of.
>>97451291Read Bakker.
>>97451291>>97451456This seems more like you just don't enjoy lower-stakes fantasy. Especially from how it seems you only watched a bit, that's when the stakes are at the lowest and it's a lot of character interaction.I'd be curious what your thoughts on the Hobbit are. Because if you also find that relatively bland and childish, then it's probably just an indication that you need a story to have some immediate obvious world-ending threat in order to get invested.
>>97451646It's such a happy show. >>97451714Yes, the art is top-notch and quite creative.
>>97451291Traditional games?
>>97451347stop obsessing about dicks
>>97451456>i tried reading dungeon meshi but the super low stakes and jokes about everything put me off.Then you didn't read Dungeon Meshi and your opinions on fantasy as a genre are worthless.
>>97451291first >>>/a/Second: Frieren got popular because soobvering got stale, simple as. People just needed something straightforward as a palate cleanser that and lolibaba elf feet
>>97451590Faputa = best girl!
>>97451714Tsukushi is a certified freak, but there's no denying that he's an amazing artist and an extremely creative worldbuilder.
>>97451291The problem with shit like Frieren is that it's barely fantasy at all. The cities and fashion all feel far comparatively modern while characters go on about ice cream and treats. I don't demand things be fully accurate to a medieval aesthetic but a bit more effort in its own would have been appreciated.>>97451405>>97451508Ah. Beat me to it seems.
>>97452188The man's passion drives his creativity.
>>97451291I feel like a lot of modern things kind of lack a sense of awe when it comes to their fantasy. Everything is treated so mundanely and with little emotion. Characters in Frieren react with the same level of muted "Eh" to see a magnificent cave full of crystals older than history as they do anything else but then LOL FRUIT PARFAIT OMG! I don't know if it's a matter of imagination or perspective but people don't really seem drawn to grand splendor anymore. You ever play a Persona game? Characters will discover a second fantasy world full of mystery and monsters, a discovery that could change the very fundamental nature of humanity and it feels like they get bored of it. Then you offer them some sushi and they damn near shit themselves in excitement.
>>97451291>i watched frieren the other day and it has been hyped as the best fantasy story of the decade but i just feel it was bland and unamaginativeFrieren might be overrated but I wouldn't call it bland and unimaginative by any measure. Much like many years ago with Fullmetal Alchemist, I think Frieren is just a competently written story that manages to hit the right notes with long-term anime fans and normies who approach the medium more casually. It's not some sweeping epic like LoTR, but it's a contemplative journey following an ageless character finally getting in touch with her humanity. For what it is, the author is doing a good job. >>97451509MiA has been a really good read over the years, I just with the author would keep a consistent schedule but it's often the case that the good fantasy manga (and good manga in general) are the ones that get the leeway to release at a more relaxed pace. At a bare minimum a monthly release schedule is where the really good stories come from. I'll throw in a recommendation for Magus of the Library. While the fantasy elements can often feel muted as the story takes place from the perspective of a young librarian. It's not lacking for wonder and awe when it does lean into the fantastical. Like MiA it has some exceptional worldbuilding behind it and I generally like the cast and where the story is going regarding a massive conspiracy regarding the magical cataclysm that plagues the continent to this day
>>97452452>but it's a contemplative journey following an ageless character finally getting in touch with her humanity. For what it is, the author is doing a good job.For about four episodes before devolving into shounen exam bullshit.
>>97452462The exam was fine. We get a following arc that does a really good job with Macht although I forget exactly when it happens.
>>97452462The fucking school/exam arc was such trite and retarded bullshit I couldn't fucking believe it. I fucking hate that cliched shit and cannot understand why japs include it in anything.
>>97452483It doesn't help that they hyped the northern area up like it was some demonic hell infested wasteland but no it was pretty much exactly like anywhere else.
>>97451291japan doesn't do "fantasy" ala tolkien, they do magic realism insteadnot their fault if retards believe a dark age setting strictly means "fantasy" though
>>97452525They do Dragon Quest
>>97452528which has seen little success in overseas :D
>>97452525>"fantasy" ala tolkienWhat do you mean by that? Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs? Conlangs? Writing the world with 10000 years of elaborate history from which 99% is irrelevant to current events?
>>97451824Love to see you're still alive.
Yeah, friren is pretty much just videogame/anime tropes and vibes, its pretty insubstantial>>97451646>its not torture porn, it just commits a significant portion of its runtime to depicting physical injuries and the suffering associated with themBro what do you think torture porn is? If the show is just a vehicle for the delivery of graphic and unnessesary torture, and that sounds like what you're describing, then its torture porn. It doesnt have to have pro-torture messaging or anything, just be a cheap and indulgent source of torture for the people who get off on it, and that sounds like what you're describing
>>97452059the hobbit is about taking a treasure from a dragon. since when that is considered low stakes
>>97452777Anything that's not protecting the ultra mega omni meta multi verse is low stakes today
>>97452758>its not torture porn, it just commits a significant portion of its runtime to depicting physical injuries and the suffering associated with themFirst off, this is just a strawman you made up and not reflective of the actual series.>Bro what do you think torture porn is?Shit like House of Velez for example. Media where the gore/torture and suffering of the characters is the whole point as opposed to just elements of the story that happen because of the situations the characters face. Calling Made in Abyss torture porn is a fucking ridicilous statement that just betrays the fact that you have not engaged with the series in any way beyond reading some memes about it or someshit.It is an adventure series where the characters face real danger at times, and where injuries and danger are treated seriously. Nothing in Made in Abyss to me reads as torture porn, the violent shit that happens to the characters in MiA are a consequence and reminder of the dangers they face in their journey, but they are far from the most prominent aspect of the narrative.If character getting injured in an encounter with a dangerous animal, and needing time and care to recover from that injury is "torture porn" to you, then we clearly have very different ideas of what torture porn actually is.
>>97452422Then compare this to Sam in LOTR. Who sets out on an adventure that he knows is perilous among other reasons specifically to see elves. Then when he sees them the first time he cries tears of joy and his entire demeanour is changed for the rest of the story.
>>97451687To defend Made in Abyss is to affirm that beauty and terror are not opposites but companions, that the pursuit of meaning is inseparable from the risk of being undone, and that sometimes profound insights by daring to descend where we fear to look. Hon hon hon.
>>97451291Which game?
>>97453006This, but unironically.The pain, suffering and adversity the characters in Made in Abyss face, make their moments of triumph, camaradie and care & gentleness towards each other all the more sweet. Without the sense of danger and peril, and the pain the characters face, the story would lose an essential ingredient in what makes it work.
>>97451590what is she confused about?
>>97451687Hell is other narehate.
>>97451725the same thing that motivates you to pretend to be weird, I would assume.
>>97453067I am not pretending to be weird, my opinions itt are genuinely what I think. I don't see the point of trying to pretend to hold opinions I don't actually hold on this site.
>>97452384fantasy doesn't refer to a time period.
>>97451291No anon you don't understand, it's Japanese therefore it's automatically good. That's just how it works!Thing = badThing:Japan = good!>>97451347They/them hated him because he told they/them the truth.
>>97451291>Talks about originality>Uses PJ dumbed down version of Tolkien, half a century after the book, as an exampleReally now? Those movies are many things, but original is not high on the list.
>>97452422cringe
>>97451372Was Kanehito Yamada 19 when he made Frieren?Also, you don't need to be a carpenter to know when a house is tilted.
>>97452483because it's cool you lame faggot. at least something finally happened in that gayass snoozefest
>>97453076You're not good at this. Give it a rest.
>>97452888>this is just a strawman you made upIts how you described it here >>97451646>Riko getting injured by the Orb piercer is treated as a traumatic life or death situation that takes multiple chapters for Riko to recover fromObviously i havent watched it, my impressions are based on the content of this thread, but so far that impression has been that the author writes with their dick in their hand. You're telling me that the point isnt the torture, but you're not telling me it has a narrative purpose, or builds the world or serves the plot or anything, just that there are multiple examples and the one you choose to hold up in the show's defence is extended and graphic. Im questioning it because its a bizzare defence to make. What am i supposed to read from that?
>>97452902Right. The things they see and so weigh on them rather than just feel like a vague post card memory.
>>97453219The injury does serve narrative purpose in multiple ways, as it establishes the real danger the characters face in their adventure, as well as leads to actual character development for the protagonists as well as introduction of a new character into their dynamic etc. It is an essential part of the story.The point isn't torture or guro, the injury is an adversity the characters have to overcome. By your logic you could just as well argue that the Revenant is torture porn because Dicaprio's character getting mauled by a bear in the beginning.
>>97453219nta but the point about violence in Made in Abyss that I'd make is that it rarely feels gratuitous in a way that I would associate with torture porn. It's not like Hostel where the violence and gore is the focus, the actual attack is very tame in terms of visuals and actually serves the plot. Riko does get injured but it's to reinforce how dangerous the abyss really is as she's gotten many lucky breaks from certain death prior to that without much injury. The Orb Piercer event also allows another key character to be introduced in the aftermath and is another showcase of how determined Riko is about delving into the abyss. There's no denying that the author is a pervert in their own right. But if I was going to point towards any story moment as being gratuitous it would be later in the Idofront.
>>97451291On the bright side, now you know exactly what your pop meant when he said they hadn't made good music since 1964.
>>97451291Frieren is pretty much a road movie where they travel and something happens.
>>97453112He? You sure about that?A lot of stuff these days is made by younger people than 30-40 years before so the drop in quality is normal if you ask me.
>>97453337By the way you spoke before, you seemed certain of the mangaka's age.Interesting.
>>97451386>Calling Frieren boring in relation to Dungeon MeshiHoly cope
>>97453367Frieren is far more boring both in terms of characters as well as the actual events that happen in the anime when compared to Dungeon Meshi. Even claiming that Frieren has characters is kind of a stretch given that the characters in Frieren boil down to two autistic women with more or less same demenour, some autistic dude that has barely any personality and a bunch of extrenous npcs that just fill a singular character trope.
>>97453320More like nothing happens.
>>97452483>school/exam arc >cannot understand why japs include it in anything.You have to understand, the average jap is a browbeaten powerless slave in an endless corporate machine that seeks to consume him. The last time it was allowed to have some semblance of freedom was its days in high school, so it looks back on those times with fondness and longing. It wishes it could stay there forever. All the school life shows and series are japs reliving their glory days because that was the last time it was treated as a human being.
>>97453401That's what happens in road movies You watch them for atmosphere, visuals, music and characters, not action
>>97453402>>97452483It's weird that the first grade mage exam is being put in the same category as a school arc. It's just a type certification at the end of the day more comparable to getting a hunting license or CDL but you can actually die. There's actually no correlation to high school at all.
>>97453112He won a college mangaka prize in 2009, so very likely he's in his 30s.
>>97451291I have also noticed this, and I refer to the new genre of fantasy as "cosmopolitan fantasy". Here are some differences between classic fantasy and cosmopolitan fantasy:Classic:>The magic system is often designed specifically for the setting, and is often associated with evil (such as in LOTR and most Sword and Sorcery works), with good-intended uses of magic still having negative environmental/societal effects.>The magic system works in such a way that it cannot be "spammed" because doing so would be suicide (i.e. warhammer) but it can still do setting-reshaping things in the right hands.>Original fantasy races exist and do not get along with each other, and are typically found in locations which are far away from each other.>The aesthetic is muted but not muddy, whenever something is described as being a specific color this is memorable.>The setting is medieval-inspired or even more decentral than that, and is a setting where adventures are expected to occur but most citizens will not interact with a fantasy creature in their lives.Cosmopolitan:>The magic system is elemental, mana-based, or nearly unexplained, and>Magic is almost entirely combat-focused, and noncombat uses of magic are similar to using telekinesis for basic tasks but on a larger scale, i.e. magitech/dungeon-punk. Magic is still associated with good, and if the fading of magic from the setting is ever mentioned, it is portrayed as evil, while a god with the domain of "magic" is likely good.>Fantasy races are usually recolored humans/beastfolk, and each fantasy race can be found in almost every settlement.>The aesthetic is very brightly-colored, and equipment is decorated but generically named.>Hub cities and similar signs of centralization are prominent, and (as described in noncombat uses of magic) fantasy creatures are often more common than animals.If LOTR was made now it would be called dark/low fantasy.
>>97451291How does this affect your latest campaign and traditional games session? What system are you playing where this is an issue?
>>97453320God I fucking wish it was THAT. I fucking love THAT. Ergo Proxy, Girls Last Tour, Cashern Sins, I've watched a lot of absolute crap because it was THAT. Frieren is generic shonen, "heh, foolish weakling, your attacks are ineffectual because I have been using my secret all powerful technique SEMEN RETENTION, maybe come back in a million years and you'll have a chance" garbage with multi episode long battle arcs where animators are spending literal weeks painstakingly drawing out ultra smooth jacket flips to add to their work reel but no one actually knows how to choreograph an interesting fight scene. Then every other episode they throw in some joke character to kill time and to draw away from their utterly one dimensional main cast. It's genuinely unbelievable to me that people can't get enough of it when it's so painfully generic and unimaginative, so imitative of all the most generic and unimaginative drek that's come out before it.
>>97453466Cool.So you can't demand an Anon criticizing Frieren offers work he did at a younger age.
>>97453219nta and i personally dont like made in abyss that much but for fuck's sake grow some spine. seeing people bitch all day about le violence in media is so pathetic.
>>97451443While I support the use of AI, AI art is a good example of how art is inherently aristocratic, and giving the masses access to commissioned art of whatever they want usually (but not always) results in slop. Even though the maximum capacity of humanity to create good art increased (due to "ideas guys" who couldn't draw now being able to), the overall average quality of art has likely been decreasing ever since the invention of photographs.
>>97452880To add on to my previous post (>>97453480), Cosmopolitan Fantasy often has stakes of good vs pure evil, and any conflict threatens to destroy the entire setting, while Classic Fantasy (LOTR being a notable exception which explains why it is high and not low fantasy) typically focuses on very local conflicts. However, Classic Fantasy typically has more risks to the characters themselves, while Cosmopolitan Fantasy gives the viewer/player an assumption that protagonist death will not occur except in cutscenes/"narrative moments", regardless of how epic-looking the enemies appear.
>>97453347I remember reading Kanehito was a woman around 19 when frieren was written before shit was blacked out due to Frieren becoming extremely famous.
>>97453480Classic fantasy was to put you into a faraway world with alien norms, because to be different was wondrous. Modern fantasy needs to mirror the modern world and reinforce the current norms, because to be different is dangerous.
>>97453367This is true, though. Dungeon Meshi is much better when it comes to characters, consistency of the story, art and is a completed series.
>>97453480>Magic is almost entirely combat-focused, and noncombat uses of magic are similar to using telekinesis for basic tasks but on a larger scale, i.e. magitech/dungeon-punk. Magic is still associated with good, and if the fading of magic from the setting is ever mentioned, it is portrayed as evil, while a god with the domain of "magic" is likely good.I have a hard time thinking of things that actually come anywhere near this.
>>97451386Both are boring and unimaginitive, and decidedly "gamey" for stories that don't involve characyers getting sucked into game worlds.
>>97453600It's almost as if 42 year old autists who hang out on basket weaving forums talking about esoteric system that are not D&D are not the target audience of both franchises...
>>97453600The only really gamey part of either is the insistence on parties and dungeons. Otherwise it's just high fantasy.
>>97453584Every MMO and most non-simulationist RPGs (for example, D&D 4e and 5e), also a LARP that I played in and multiple RPG campaigns I played in.
>>97453367Frieren is shounen tourney slop
>>97453629I think the shift from arbitrary numbers of characters to specifically parties was the beginning of RPGs moving from games which simulate a world to settings made to enable a game.
>>97453635Oh I see. Fair enough, but I'd be tempted to put that in a separate category because those are being heavily informed by external concessions to gameplay.
>>97453640It really isn't aside from a portion of one arc. Most of the story is basically just them traveling and getting into situations that remind Frieren of something that happened with Himmel.The current arc in the manga is almost as bad as the exam arc and, perhaps not coincidentally, it also revolves Serie and her toadies.
>>97453584Also, by "using telekinesis for basic tasks but on a larger scale", I mean that non-damaging magic just solves the issue for you (i.e. fabricate, conjuration, polymorphing objects, mansion/hut spells) rather than giving you another tool that has its own limitations and niches (ironwood, warp wood, transmute rock to mud).Another difference is that in Cosmopolitan Fantasy, summoned creatures are basically a funky AOE that can be summoned near-instantly, stays for a few minutes, and never truly dies, just demanifests (and Cosmopolitan Fantasy often focuses on magical "pets" rather than "mounts" or "war beasts/hounds"), while in Classic Fantasy summoning is a long process, is uncertain, and actually calls a creature into the world, which cannot be sent back without another ritual or killing it. Generally, classic summoning might exist in Cosmopolitan Fantasy, but only villains use it (and non-combat magic which permanently transforms a creature like the equivalent of genetic engineering, or which creates non-"pet" undead, is one of the only forms of magic treated as evil other than permanent death/soul-destroying magic)
>>97453678I wouldn't know, I dropped it the moment it turned into shounen slop
>>97453652>because those are being heavily informed by external concessions to gameplay.This is a tabletop board, so they are relevant. However, modern fantasy is also increasingly informed by balance-before-immersion games.
>>97453649I mean, RPGs were about parties basically from the start. You could probably blame Tolkien for creating the Fellowship and thereby carving the notion into the brains of nerds into perpetuity, even if the Fellowship was a rather large, unbalanced party that breaks up fairly quick in the grand scheme.
>>97453700At that point, you might as well blame the Orlando Furioso, Water Margin, or the numerous folk tales of Robin Hood and the Merry Men of Sherwood Forest for having a colorful cast of recurring characters working together for a common goal.
>>97453700>even if the Fellowship was a rather large, unbalanced party that breaks up fairly quick in the grand scheme.This is what was important. At some points, LOTR would have been a wargame, and at all points it was a hexcrawl rather than every single party member following the same path. The size of the party also varied, and the party did not expect that every threat would be defeatable by all of them zerg-rushing it. Now, you get called an asshole (the only slur a bugman can invoke without getting political) if you want the party to ever split up without it being the continuation of your backstory.
>>97453715When I differentiated between "parties" and "arbitrary numbers of characters", I was referring to how games that expect a certain party size design monsters and threats around that party size, while games which expect emergent gameplay do not attempt to balance themselves, and allow players to recruit henchmen or use the environment rather than assume they can win in a pitched battle. Now, anything other than a pitched battle is considered "cheese", and having realistic Number Appearing values is considered unfair rather than challenging dungeon ecology.
>>97451509I like Tower Dungeon. It isn't unique more so than going the>unique take on existing fantasy tropesroute, but it's cool and feels a lot like reading a ttrpg campaign.
>>97453683I'm still having a hard time pinning things down that broadly fit these descriptions. Like yeah, I can think of some things where summoning is more of just extra flavor for a spell, but the extension that only evil magicians summon things that last is fairly particular.I get the feeling your folding in a lot of shounen tropes into your notion of cosmopolitan fantasy, but that's basically its own subset of tropes that doesn't generalize consistently.
>>97451291The setting for Frieren is as generic as it could possibly be. It's the characters that make it unique. In fact - and maybe I'm reading too much into what could easily just be a lazy choice by the author, but bear with me - it almost feels like the setting was generic on purpose. Like the author went out of their way to keep it as non-descript as possible. A lot of Frieren feels like the author was watching another fantasy anime (or vidya, movie, whatever), and thought to themselves: 'okay, but doesn't that imply [X]?'Like they were watching the Lord of the Rings, and they were thinking: 'how could Legolas be best friends with Gimli, Legolas is thousands of years old. Relative to his lifespan, it'd be like saying your best friend is a guy you spent a couple of hours on a plane with?'The setting has to be generic so the author can explore common fantasy tropes.I guess what I'm trying to say is that the author feels like the kind of autist who spent a lot of their youth arguing over obscure bits of D&D lore on whatever the Japanese equivalent of /tg/ is. >>97453619It is painful how obvious it is that the user base of /tg/ has not changed at all in the last ten years. Ten years ago the average age was maybe mid to late twenties, now it's clearly mid to late thirties.
>>97453721To be fair, in an actual game, splitting the party is a pretty big pain in the ass for everyone and always has been. Tabletop isn't an ideal medium for having multiple simultaneous threads going on.
>>97453721>Looking down on non-political insultsJesus christ you /pol/brains are fucking destroyed.I am actively disgusted any time any of you fuckers even bring up politics.
>>97453573How is Tolkien about being "different"?
>>97451291>I want to throw my cent to this new anime adaptation /tg/ew lmao
>>97453802Bilbo was a queer hobbit for volunteering to take such a long uncomfortable and very much un-hobbit-like journey.
>>97453683Reminds me of a setting I wrote once were these summon concepts are at odds which each other. Summoning there is split into minor summon, summon, mayor summon and absolute summon. The first three kinds use the mana of the summoner to summon and bind a creature, so it makes sense that said creature would protect and serve the summoner, because if they do not and the mana gets cut off, they are send back to whatever hellhole they came from. This however also limits the creatures that can be summoned by how much mana the summoner has. On the other side is the absolute summon, where the summoner uses his mana (and less of it) to kickstart a ritual that summons a creature and binds it to the world. This creature now runs on the ambient mana of the world, so can be much more powerful, but also has no reason to heed the summoner. In the setting absolute summoning is forbidden in the civilized reaches, because it is seen like a magic nuke or even natural disaster, because it is something that gets unleashed upon the world as a whole forever - To try to use it as a weapon would be to also invite one's own demise or worse.
It’s anime. Anime is extremely repetitive and samey. The west is headed this direction as well. Slop is the future.
>>97453918>The west is headed this direction as well.Good one, anon, almost made me feel like the last decade+ of western media didn't already happen.
>>97453573Based and non-conformitypilled.
What's mainstream can't be original, because mainstream appeals to the midwits. You want original ideas you gotta look into some weird stuff on the fringe.
>>97454171Mado went mainstream?
>>97454180Still more on the weird fringe side, as far as I can tell. Got some stuff published in English, but not having much of a following.
>>97453435I don't think anyone watches them.
>>97453480bottom's better
>>97453918Anime is just high throughput. They're willing to throw large volumes of shit at the wall to see what sticks. It's a double edged sword because on one hand it can let some things through that wouldn't get past the front door in the west, but on the other hand it exposes the reality that most writers are incredibly dull and unoriginal and audiences aren't super discerning.On the other hand, think about how repetitive and samey that YA or romantasy are and it's really not that different.
>>97453509AI has not allowed anyone to draw who couldn't before.
>>97453619No, it's actually as if it's simply not very good. Because it isn't.
>>97453683what's the difference? fabricate makes something out of wood, and warp wood makes something out of wood. they both solve the problem "I need this wood to be a different shape".If you saw me cast a spell that shaped some wood into a boat, would you even be able to identify which spell I used more than half the time? Are you just mad that fabricate wasn't named by a prancing faggot?
>>97453683dnd has had both summoning and calling available for players and NPCs for many years. they're not opposed or exclusive and they determine nothing about the genre.
>>97453715Yes. Fiction influenced stuff that came after it. Mind blowing.
>>97453753Never been a problem in my games. Why would it be? You're still asking each player what he's doing in turn order as usual. Nothing about the gameplay changes. The assumption that the party has to act like a single being at all times is bizzare.
>>97451291>Why is anime trash?Why are oranges that color between red and yellow?
>>97453761Nigger.
>>97454312https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/warpWood.htmhttps://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ironwood.htmThese are much more specific than just fabricate.
>>97454364So are you going to answer my question?
>>97454336Being this reductive is how we get stupid threads like this, anon
>>97454353Adds overhead, describing a room where everyone is vs describing each room where each individual character is, keeping track of who has what, who heard/seen/knows what, etc.
>>97454389Not difficult.
>>97451311Terry Pratchett once said that Tolkien was to fantasy fiction what Mount Fuji is to Japanese block art.
>>97454359I can't believe how much you guys seethe when not allowed to spam nigger.
>>97454404I can always tell the nogames because they don't recognize when the thing they suggest adds vast amounts of time and padding to the game for little payoff.
>>97452452>MiA has been a really good read over the yearsSure, if you're a pedophile who happens to enjoy watersports.
>>97454274>On the other hand, think about how repetitive and samey that YA or romantasy are and it's really not that different.the difference is those are mostly in book form and the shows that get made are usually cancelled
Why do the Japanese struggle drawing unique faces? They make amazing backgrounds and scenery. But then they ruin it with the same type of bug eyed face. It doesn’t match.
>>97454476Detailing face takes time and effort, that's why cartoons (of any provenance) keep face simple and distinguish characters by hairstlyles and clothes
>>97451291The problem is often modern morality. When characters talk about feminism, racism, homosexuality, or modern politics, or when your average medieval town has the racial diversity of a UN conference, something is very, very badly wrong.The Wheel of Time TV series is especially bad about that. Rand is unique because he's the only guy with red hair and green eyes in the book, but in the series it's like walking through modern-day London.Obviously it takes you out of it a lot.
>>97454419Sorry you're bad at running games, loser. Doesn't add padding and players being able to make their own decisions is obviously good. Mald.
>>97454510Looks like I was right, lol
>>97451291>what happened with cultural giants like the original lotr moviesYou mean the beowulf epic?Fantasy hasn't changed. You just got old enough to realize everything's derivative.
>>97454501Yeah but it’s a lost skill. The Japanese were good at animating faces in the 80s and 90s. Now they can’t even draw facial hair properly.
>>97454505Yeah that really chaps my ass, as well as a complete misunderstanding of the source material. The people who made the show should have been fucking shot, for making Perrin KILL HIS WIFE.
>>97454505I wouldn't even really mind more diversity in things, there's only so many actors to go around and sometimes you take what you get, but they always seem so intentionally smug about things. Like they go out of the way to call attention to it when most people probably wouldn't have noticed or cared that much if you didn't show you cards.
>>97454681That's the thing, there are plenty of actors. You could cast an entire show with white people and we used to do so. It's not like China or Korea have mandatory quotas, for example. Everyone in that kind of show is Chinese or Korean.What they're doing is ideological, and it sucks.
>>97451347>brings up trannoids out of nowhere
>>97451347Ironically anime tends to be less tranny-friendly than Westslop these days.
>>97451291Daily reminder that LotR was published before this dogshit essay yet people haven't read it act like it is saying some truism.
>>97454524Yeah, you were right that you're a bitchmade FAGGOT LMAOOOO
>>97454535It's always just a question of budget. There's plenty of old TV anime that look like ass. People just prefer to remember the high budget OVAs or let the nostalgia goggles blind them.
>>97454893>nostalgia googles>post one of the best looking and fun TV shows ever madeHoly secondary.
>>97454681No, actors are plentiful. Casting directors just got fucking weird over the past decade or so. I think a lot of them have developed a morbid fascination with hiring odd looking people. And I'm not just talking about race, but faces and features. Like, sure, you raceswapped/genderflipped some character, but why did you have to pick someone weird or ugly on top of it? Why does the cast of my fantasy/sci-fi epic have to look like a bunch of random people from Walmart in costumes?
>>97454901The discussion was about faces. Outlaw Star has some nice aesthetics, but the faces are not a strong suit even by 90s standards.
>>97453480None of you children even fucking know what Everquest was, let alone could you play an authentic historical reenactment of the way it was such as on P99 or Quarm. Keep Keith Parkinson's name out of your filthy mouths and your unworthy hands.
>>97451291Somebody explain to me the point of the guy on the left. He doesn't do anything and is just a complete embarrassment to watch in general.
>>97454726Absolute cope. Your tranime fighting games have had playable troons since the 90s. Ranma 1/2 is ground zero for AGP. Even the trooniest western media haven't had a tenth of the impact.
>>97451386>watch reddit the anime insteasLmfao. ADHD riddled zoomies simply cannot handle the lack of cocomelon jump cut visuals and loud anime screeching. Not liking frieren really is a litmus test for mental illness.
>>97454929And yet I like Aisha more then 99% of every other cat girl design since then.
>>97454962>Dungeon Meshi>RedditNewfaggot alert.That manga was being dumped on /tg/ over a decade ago.
>>97454971I know because I was there. The anime is still insanely reddit. Even got all the heckin voice acties
>>97453600Frieren has literally spells that create videogame minimaps and shit. It is far more influenced by video game tropes and standard isekai bs than Dungeon Meshi is. The major influence on Dungeon Meshi is Wizardry because the author is an actual tabletop rgp nerd and the manga was influenced by the campaings she had played in wizardry.
>>97454980>Insanely redditCompletely nonsensical statement, the anime adapts the manga extremely faitfully so if the anime is supposedly "reddit" then by your logic the manga would be as well for some insane reason.Also>watching dubbed anime
>>97453600the point of these series isn't to be OH LOOK HOW SPECIAL AND SPECIFIC MY WORLD IS! i guess they don't do much for people who get their entertainment from reading wikipedia articles over actual stories
>>97454986Yes. It is the most cal arts stephen universe artstyle dei slop fest anime ever created second only to high guardian spice, which doesnt count because it isnt real anime.
>>97455004>nonsensical buzzwords in place of an actual argumentYou are a fucking retard.
>>97451291The fact that /TG/ hates frieren and anime shows that this place has no good taste and is full of redditors.
>>97455014>Pretending to not understand things is winning the argument!Really throwing the scent off the reddit trail huh
>>97455019Pretending that calling something "cal arts stephen universe artstyle dei slop fest" is in any way descriptive of something or constitutes an argument just showcases either your own stupidity, or how disengenious you are.What the fuck am I supposed to take from that description? Dungeon Meshi's artstyle in no way resembles cal arts style or the shit western cartoons look like these days. Nor is there any "dei slop" in it. You are just using those terms as buzzwords in place of actual arguments to why the anime is supposedly "reddit" in nature.
>>97455038Kys retard
>>97455052Wtf is your point? How is some side character being non white make the manga/anime "dei slop".
>>97455064>b-b-butGive up slopoid
>>97455073What is posting another nonwhite side character supposed to prove you retarded nigger? Is your "argument" basically is that non white characters existing in a story = dei slop?By that logic, fucking Alien and Predator movies are dei slop.
>>97455038I'm afraid he has a point about dei part - the main party is racially diverse, spans variety of ages (both in absolute number and relative to their expected lifespan), includes women, and one of the big plot points is Marcille's struggle with her mixed ancestry.The other parties feature>strong ethnical background>cross-race adoption, people of color>criminal background and homosexuality
>>97455094No no, see, it's Okay When Japan Does It.
>>97455091Im honestly pissed I had to spend time looking at this hideous fucking anime to make you look like a retard. The mods will probably get me for goreposting this shit is so ugly. The whole anime is tumblr fan art tier. Tumblr fan art is another buzzword you will pretend not to understand because you willingly eat shit.
>>97454980>The anime is still insanely reddit. Even got all the heckin voice actiesThe artsyle is japanese as was the studio that made it and you don't have to watch the english dub. It's in basically any language you could want.
>>97451291the thing with Frieren is that the fantasy elements are really just menas for tell the story, a story as you might have noticed by a few chapters in, about learning to appreciate memories and the small things in life and remembering those we lost and would have like to spent more time with.>>97451456>i tried reading dungeon meshi but the super low stakes and jokes about everything put me off.lol, lmao even. if you're watching the anime the moment the sister chimera shows up you start to see things are not low stake. and if you're reading the manga, the winged lion is proably one of the best concepts for demons or eldritch horros i've seen.>>97451405oh man i fucking hate opening a new fantasy comic/manga or series/anime and see people dressed like it's the 1860's-1910's. like, i don't give a shit about potatoes, tomatoes or coffee in fantasy but that makes me so mad for some reason. i would rather have everyone going around in leather thong and chainmail bikini
>>97455094all of those things are fine. its only woke if there are nonwhites, fags and ugly women.
>>97455118>nonwhites, fags, and ugly womenLike the ones in all the screenshots posted itt?
>>97455094That is a retarded stance to take and basically renders the term "dei" completely meaningless as a description. None of the characters in the story are native to the place where the dungeon is located, it makes sense for the place to be diverse because the dungeon is drawing people from all around the world to explore it for it's wealth. As for having women in a party, fucking Conan the Barbarian had a woman as a party member. >>97455099Calling something tumblr fanart doesn't constitute an argument either, retard. The only actual point in your posts you have made is that you personally dislike the artstyle, and that's fine, you could have said it from the get go rather than go on to fling buzzwords around to give some facade to what is basically just your shit tastes.
>>97454901Holy awful taste
>>97454968because of nostalgia, yeah.
>>97455125>nonwhites, fags, and ugly women are actually based because [multiple paragraphs]Yep its a redditor
>>97455144Genuinely kill yourself, retard.
>>97455154I don't know, you sound like a Redditor, maybe the other anon is right.
>>97455154The guys back at reddit are gonna give you so many upvotes for pwning me. Infinite karma hack amirite.
>>97455125>basically renders the term "dei" completely meaningless as a descriptionThe descriptor is fine and fits the anime quite accurately. Sure, author of the manga might not have intended such selection of character as an inclusivity statement, I'm willing to believe she just enjoyed coming up with variety of designs for which she needed variety of body types with cultures and backgrounds they would come from. But it wouldn't be the first time the author's intent didn't quite align with public perception of the completed work.And them there was probably some input from the executives that approved anime adaptation, which can accidentally blur or intentionally misinterpret the source material. So I would not suspect Kui from having an agenda to push, but final version of anime viewed by unbiased lenses very much screams "dei cast".
>>97454929aisha is better than frieren. seethe and cope.
>>97455125You don't get it. You're talking to /pol/tards. There's no logic behind their criticism. They don't hate "dei". They unironically hate fictional women and browns. A random side character being gay even if it makes sense is enough to send them into a frenzy.
>>97455199>but final version of anime viewed by unbiased lenses very much screams "dei cast".Only if your brain is terminally rotted by culture war bs. Dungeon Meshi isn't the first anime to feature a couple of non white characters anyways, and if just including non white people to a cast means something is dei, then again, shit like fucking Alien and Predator are also dei, as is almost all entertainment made in the western world in general since the fucking 60ies.
>>97455203BROW WOMAN DETECTED!MUST BE DEISLOP!
So Redditors hate Frieren for having only white people?
>>97455273And for claiming demons are inherently evil. I am not fucking joking.
>>97455273What a strange strawman to make.
>>97455313I don't know, that's what they're talking about in the thread.
>>97455301The irony that people who hate the way demons are presented in Frieren are actually falling for demonic propaganda is not lost on me.
>>97455331Nobody itt has said that Frieren is bad because of lack of diversity or retarded shit like that. The criticism towards frieren has been mostly that it is generic, videogamey in it's world building and boring in terms of characters and narrative.
>>97455346which proves that the author is right.
>>97451291If you cannot appreciate Frieren, you may be soulless. It is not that I think that it is the best thing since baked bread, but if you cannot see the appeal and find it "unimaginative" you're literally a husk in some way.>>97454960Ranma 1/2 is literally a manga by a woman making fun of the concept because of how absurd it is. The fact that you think that it's somehow transexual in nature only reveals how fucking obsessed you are. You're exactly the kind of faggot that would've been sperging out about satanic roleplaying games a mere two decades ago.
>>97455354>The criticism towards frieren has been mostly that it is generic, videogamey in it's world building and boring in terms of characters and narrative.The same can be said of Dungeon Meshi; in fact, it is worse in several aspects of that criticism.Another thing I must say is that leftists are never sincere and always use lies as a weapon to hide their true intentions.
>>97455354I think it could be inferred given that the guy originally shitting on frieren, ended up choosing defense of dei casting to be his hill to die on. Nor do I doubt for a second that redditors do hate it for that reason seeing as they also hate it for “demons are bad”
>>97455259You seem to be fixating on skin color as the crux of the argument. It's not. That's just one of the elements to consider - Meshi scores much more diversity points, neurodivergent Laios, Chilchuck as a midlife crisis dad - not your typical adventurers. Marcille making such a big deal out of being a mutt. The weeb party and elf party being predominantly female. Child molester and junkie presented as reluctant heroes.Token minority, especially when not presented as hyper-competent and overshadowing the rest of the cast is fine. But when diversity points keep piling up across the cast it's hard to deny the obvious. Yeah, some (most?) of older anime when viewed by contemporary optics would meet similar criteria - Slayers was basically girlboss galore. The authors might not have inteded it as such, but that's what they made.
>>97455094All of that makes sense in context, you fucking mongoloid. This isn't The Hobbit where you have fucking niggers in medieval European garb or """Baldur's Gate""" """3""" where every single gnome is a homo and races from the literal Underdark half a world away are treated as common things in a renaissance-level city. It's an actual multicultural nexus and them all being foreigners is actually a central fucking point.I swear, you faggots are more neurotic than actual literal Jews, except you obsess about things that actually doesn't fucking matter, instead of the pernicious influences of actual, literal Jews. It's so fucking stupid it can't be anything other than manufactured outrage in order to false-flag. It is impossible for actual living persons on "my side" to be this retarded and still use a computer.
>>97455417>Story dares to have interesting characters >because some retards on the internet are allergic to any type of diversity this means it should be viewed through an extremely negative lens
>>97455427Listen, it quacks like a duck. Its a quite a suspicious coincidence that Dungeon Meshi has more in common with the style of thirsty sword lesbians than it does with Frieren.
>>97455398>The same can be said of Dungeon Meshi; in fact, it is worse in several aspects of that criticism.I disagree, in my opinion the setting of Dungeon Meshi has far more thought put into it despite being overall pretty stock fantasy world, than Frieren and the characters in it are far better written than Frieren's characters. Frieren has extremely one note characters and it's setting is basically copy paste shit I've seen a hundred times already, with muh deamon lords, video gamey magic systems and fucking rpg classes and shit.It is barely above of isekai slop in terms of any actual creativity put into it.>The same can be said of Dungeon Meshi; in fact, it is worse in several aspects of that criticism.Good thing I'm not a leftist then.>>97455399Only in your demented mind. I wholly dispute the notion that Dungeon Meshi is some sort of example of "dei casting" because by the same retarded criteria basically anything that features non white characters at all is an example of dei casting. Having non white characters doesn't bother me if they make sense in the story and aren't there to just replace white characters like what actual dei casting is, as in some netflix show about Vikings for example, making half of the cast niggers.>>97455417Firstly, Laios is not neurodivergent, he's just a weirdo. Kui outright stated that she never wrote Laios as being a sperg, that is something the western fanbase projected onto him. And the canaries are not really depicted that heroically. They are goons of the elf government and actively oppose Laios and his party and only side with them once shit really hits the fan. It feels that you are trying to really force the dei catecogrization post hoc on Dungeon Meshi when it makes no fucking sense when actually viewed objectively. Dei casting etc is best judged when viewed from the lens of what the actual objective of the author/creator is, rather than via this sort of nonsensical rationalizations.
>>97455445we all might have to start considering whether this man is actually stone blind.
>>97455442That guy is a rapist and human trafficker.
>>97455453The character on the right literally looks like multiple characters from the anime. It would fit right in. You are clearly arguing in bad faith at this point.
>>97455452>is barely above of isekai slop in terms of any actual creativity put into it.Okay, so you have shitty taste and you're a redditor.
>>97455480Stone blind.
>>97455495>a key tenant of lefty arguments is them pretending to not understand things.Ok redditor
>>97455495lmao you're a fanboy
>>97455505>>97455480LMFAO ITS THE SAME CHARACTER. LOOK EVERYONE THIS NIGGA WATCHES THIRSTY SWORD LESBOS THE ANIME
>>97455480The only similarity between those characters is that both have brown skin. Dungeon Meshi's actual artstyle has nothing in common with the artstyle in this>>97455445You can whitewash Kabru and he just ends up looking like a generic fantasy anime protagonist.
>>97455495Anon they're entirely different artstyles, you blind, blind fuck.The palletes are different, the lines are different, the eyes and lips are different, every detail is different.Why do rightoids always assume others of being dishonest while lying their asses off?
>>97455493No arguments detected. It's fine if you like generic slop like Frieren but don't get upset when people push back on your claims of it being the bestest fantasy anime ever made.
>modern fantasyDoesn't exist
>>97455506Seething.
>>97454960>Ranma 1/2 is ground zero for AGP.Ranma 1/2 is like the opposite of modern troonism. Ranma doesn't get to cure his unwanted gender, instead he comes to terms with it and learns to use it to his advantage.
>>97455508>>97455505You're stone blind, holy shit.
>>97455523You have less than arguments; you just said you didn't like it and used buzzwords to sound smart.
>>97455521This guy's got it right, I don't know how you could possibly confuse the two other than being like, legally blind levels of unable to differentiate color and shape.
>>97455528
>>97455546nou, fag.
>>97455534>>97455541Bro, you're a parrot, learn to argue.
>>97455541>if i draw the same character with a different palette and line weight then it totally isnt the same brownoid reddit slopWe are reaching peak levels of disingenuous.
>>97455537I've explicitly given the reasons why I don't like it, those being that I find it generic, and uncreative in terms of it's worldbuilding (as in, the world of the anime doesn't do anything new or interesting to me and I feels like shit I've seen many times before in other series and games) and the characters in it are one note and boring (as in, they have very shallow characterizations and personalities and I find them generally to be a bit dull). Just to be troughout in my explanation so you can't accuse me of using "buzzwords".
>>97455557>>97455556>Okay, yes, they're using entirely different artstyles, palletes, linework, face design, and the like, but YOU'RE the one being disingenuousFuck dude, you're blind AND a liar.
>>97455452>best judged when viewed from the lens of what the actual objective of the author/creator isI disagree. This might matter for essayists that overanalyse things for a living, but for normal audience the work is judged at its own merit, without any foreword OR meta-commentary of autor's intent.I'm sure Ridley Scott's original vision for Napoleon was different from the character assassination he ended up making. But that's what we got anyway.
>>97455552With your answer I won this argument; you showed that you're seething.
>>97455569>can't even noulol, bring me a stronger opponent
>>97455568Nah, Ridley Scot obviously went out of his way to make a character assassination movie because the angloids still seethe about Napoleon.
>>97455534Nah, he's just being a disengenious kike in his argumentation.
>>97455567If you don't notice the resemblance, it's because you're lying to yourself.>>97455565Those aren't arguments, they're just your opinions, and the only reason you think that is because you have shitty taste.
>>97455587No shit they are my opinions, I have however explained the reasoning behind them, unlike you.
>>97455587Nigger you called it calarts, shit's obviously not, you goalpost changing, slimy, lying fuck.Now are you going to stay on a point for once in your life, or will you continue being a slimy, goalpost moving hypocritical lying fuck?
>>97455567You have yet to provide a single refutation over the course of the thread that this shit isnt brownoid reddit slop, and when confronted with the literally same character from a LGTQ queer game you start arguing pantone colors pencil stroke weight like absolute fucking retard that has lost all semblance of an argument. Holy fuck you are stupid. There is no way you arent Br*tish. No one else would have this loose of grasp on reality.
>>97455576lol, this nigga didn't even realize he'd already lost before the fight even started.
>>97455596You've fallen all the way back from "This looks like calarts slop" past "they are the same character" and now to "They look vaguely similar if you squint and turn your head sideways", you blind lying fuck.
>>97455598You bore me. Become more interesting or I'll have to find more challenging prey.
>>97455592You're arguing with several people, newfag. I didn't say any of that.
>>97455616So, no, you will not stay on the point that was being argued because it's factually wrong and that's embarrassing for you.Got it.
>>97455613Thanks for the several (You), newfag.
>>97455580Odd thing is, Russians have all the same reasons to seethe about him and yet their version of Baтepлoo paints much more respectful picture.
>>97455625Pathetic. You're a million years too early to face the likes of me.You may now claim a hollow victory.
>>97455623Wow, what a loser you are.You're already crying over a little banter on 4chan.
>>97455623If you arent capable of discerning that you are arguing with, at minimum, two different people, then your judgement on anything else should not be taken seriously at all. Have fun watching Reddit Meshit, im leaving so maybe having only one guy to argue with will ease your retard brain.
>>97455628Russians generally have more respect towards their historical foes especially if they defeated them than the angloids do. They even hold a degree of respect for the krauts and Hitler funnily enough. Angloids however keep bitterly hating their vanquished foes hundreds of years after the fact for some reason. The pettiest example of that hatred I've witnessed is how angloids often claim that Joan of Arc was raped before she was burned at a stake.
>>97455633>>97455635Note that these creatures absolutely refuse to stick to any point of contention, because actually arguing in good faith is like poison to them.
>>97455630Thank you, goodbye.
>>97455641You are arguing with what are either jews, or spiritual jews.
>>97455641It's ironic that you're saying this in this garbage thread.
>>97455644So, what, the jews are crying about leftist now, mr. hitler?
>>97455646No, it's entirely expected from your type. Pretty run of the mill really.
>>97455644If Hitler were alive, he would hate Dungeon Meshi and love Frieren
>>97455647Being a disengenious fuck that constantly tries to shift goalposts and argue dishonestly as if arguments are some sort of contest of lying is just very jew coded.
>>97455660Horseshoe theory right again I guess.
>>97455361It also just proves that some people refuse to engage with the story on it's own terms. I've argued with randos who just don't like the implications of an unambiguously evil race and they will say something to the effect of "it makes uncomfortable comparisons to the real world". I have no fucking idea who the demons in Frieren are supposed to represent IRL. But I think it's just some holdover from ancient LoTR discussions regarding the orks compared to European peoples
>>97455653
>>97455669Hey, I'm not the one who said something looks like calarts then immediately backtracked because it looks nothing like calarts, ya blind fuck.
>>97455667True
>>97455667I've never met anyone who actually cares about freiren's demons.All of the people I know who've watched it (5) watched because it was an interesting delve into the ennui of immortality, and stopped watching at varying points when it became more and more certain there would be a chuunin exam.
>>97455514Funny how the fuckers that bitch and whine about Kabru being a dei cast or identical to characters from fucking sword lesbians just completely ignored this post that showcased how the only difference between Kabru and a generic anime protagonist character is that he's few shades browner lel.
>>97455670Okay, and I didn't say that either. I just said you're a fanboy, and you proved I was right.
>>97455674I post on a number of forums and that's the kind of stuff I encounter. Nobody I know really watches anime outside of nostalgia watching older shows we grew up with. I do consider getting filtered by the First Class exam to be a sign of weakness though, it's actually a good arc so the knee-jerk reaction seems excessive. No accounting for personal taste and expectations though.
>>97455684That's so uninteresting I'm startled you cared to make a point of it.
>>97455674Yes, I'm sure your Discord server shares your opinion, but we're talking about the internet in general.
>>97455687Look, nobody I know is going to sit around for the sloppification on what seemed like a pretty sorrowful anime.And all you people can seem to talk about with that is demons, which REALLY weren't the point of the show from the parts I watched. So either the show really tanked it and changed themes, or all that shit is real minor.
>>97455679>i photoshopped it to look different to show that it looks differentIf you photoshopped the thirsty swords character white they would look the same again lmfao
>>97455694cope and seethe
>>97455696The majority of people talking about any topic on the internet have not consumed that product, shocking!
>>97455702No, one's obviously anime and the other's obviously western. That you can't tell that is actually within the legal limits for blindness. That's "Cannot differentiate shapes and colors" tier.
>>97455700>The nigga didn't even watch the animeLmao
>>97455706about... what?
>>97455674Frieren hardly even dwells in the actual ennui of being an immortal, if anything it has a very childish take on it. Frieren herself comes across as an aloof autistic teenager that fails to notice other people and their feelings towards her until those people are either fucking dead or at death's door, which just comes off as very immature of her given that she is like a thousand years old. The idea that Himmel and his adventure with Frieren was something super speshul that made Frieren experience something she now longs for and regrets not enjoying fully at the time also really takes me at least out of the idea that she is super old because it just seems silly that she would have not had such adventures and friendships before in her long immortal life.Basically, the elves in Frieren don't really read as mature exploration of elven immortaility, they just seem like some sort of weird spergy teens stuck in that mental state for millenia (at least when it comes to Frieren and Serie).
>>97455707Yes, normalfags are cancer.
>>97455716I just said that. Are you retarded?>>97455723That seemed like the main thrust of the show, honestly, the immortal wandering. I'm not sure what is getting you through the first part if you're not signed up for that.
>>97455700>sloppificationI'm so tired of every variant of this word in discussions. Complaining about the exam after Stark was introduced is just dumb. The story made it clear it wasn't going to stay an exclusively sorrowful story so just admit that you don't like the new direction. Not that the direction is inherently bad or somehow pig feed levels of quality. Especially if you and/or your people dropped the story so you can't even comment on what is happening to know if your preconception is accurate. >And all you people can seem to talk about with that is demons,I was only making a point in response to someone who brought up a somewhat frequent complaint of the story that ballooned during the first anime season. The Aura arc did bring up a lot of discussion regarding the nature of demons as well as some pretty egregious complaints about their writing or presentation. I personally hate that it got as much buzz as it did, but most of it seems to be mocking viewers that think Demons have anything resembling a point.
>>97455702Nigger, I just adjusted the hue of his skin. That's the only change I made. Your entire argument was that Kabru looks identical to the character from sword lesbians when he obviously does not, the only similarity between the characters is literally both being brown skinned, though the hue of their skins are obviously different as well. You are a disengenious faggot.
>>97455733>so just admit that you don't like the new directionI literally did that. I view it as a turn in themes from what I wanted to something lazy and common. Something easy.
>>97455741>>97455733Though, I don't know about demons having a point, but the killemall group are retarded.The demons have a structure of behavior that could easily be enslaved to a number of tasks.
>>97455735No don't forget, they're both brown skinned AND short haired!Horror of horrors!
>>97455732I watched it trough because there was no other seasonal anime coming out at the time that I was even remotely interested in. The first few episodes seemed comfy but as it went on the generic worldbuilding and boring characters really tired me on it, and made me consider it slop in the end. The fucking exam arc was the nail on the coffin for me. I couldn't stand that shit.
>>97455723>Frieren hardly even dwells in the actual ennui of being an immortalNobody ever said that the show was about that
>>97455756yeah no if you weren't in for chilling and wandering around having feelings of ennui there really was nothing for you there.Once it gets to the exams, I'm not sure why -anyone- would stick around. I have a problem conceptualizing an audience for the first part that would like that.Apparently they care an awful lot about demons.
>>97455765I literally said it was about that.
>>97455721that you're an idiot
>>97455741>I literally did that.using sloppification says a very different thing than saying you don't like something. Because you are directly suggesting that the writing is the problem and not your own expectations. Same with saying the story "must have tanked", it's not the story's fault you didn't like the change in the narrative. >>97455747The idea of enslaving a demon was already brought up. Not even ancient magic can make a demon obey a human as they operate on a fundamentally different concept of morality and ethics. The only reason Macht even helped the Gluck is because he was a more curious demon compared to the vast majority of his kind. They aren't creatures that can be tamed or bent.
>>97455771Okay, you're retarded.
>>97455765That is what a lot of the hype about the show was claimed it to be about around the time it was airing.It just devolves into shonen magic jutsu bs pretty rapidly though.>>97455767The chilling wandering stuff wasn't the issue to me, what became the issue was that the setting itself was just boring and the characters were increasingly boring me. There is nothing interesting to me at least, in watching boring people wander in a generic dragon quest expy setting that is more or less indistinguishable from any other contemporary isekai setting.
>>97455774Yes, I don't like it because it I think it got dumb. Duh. I would have preferred if it didn't do that.And I don't know any of the characters you're talking about, but being told something is so alien really doesn't ring true to me when they like, have requirements for living.
>>97455777Who pissed in your cheerios?
>>97455779>That is what a lot of the hype about the show was claimed it to be about around the time it was airing.Maybe on Reddit, the show was never about that
>>97455735The original argument was that it had more in common with the sword lesbo art than any art from frieren which is objectively true. You moved the goalpost to being that they had to have the exact same shade of brown skin or else I am wrong. Who is being disingenuous lmao. Please show me a messy hair onions face brownoid from frieren.
>>97455779Yeah, no, I can see that, the purple one was bland, and freiren was airy fairy and barely reactive.>>97455790It was about that for the entirety of the show until the exams.
>>97455782>And I don't know any of the characters you're talking about,I wasn't replying to you regarding those characters>but being told something is so alien really doesn't ring true to me when they like, have requirements for living.What requirements for living? They are creatures made from mana not biological organisms, that's why when they die they dissipate into black mist like any other monster in the setting. And the story shows as well as tells about demon psychology, I just posted the relevant pages from a single conversation.
>>97455787I don't like that food
>>97455795You have to be blind to be unable to differentiate anime and western at like this. It's weird to so confidently take such a large L.Go get an eye exam.
>>97455801So, wait, if they have no requirements for living that just raises so many questions.Why did that adopted demon eat? HOW did it eat? Where did the food go? I am not buying this whole "entirely alien" angle from the information I've been given, and I am feeling more and more right to have bailed.
>>97455798>It was about that for the entirety of the show until the examslol, that didn't happen at any point during the show.The show is literally about losing friends to death and how you can overcome that.
>>97455795>The original argument was that it had more in common with the sword lesbo art than any art from frieren which is objectively true.It isn't obviously true, it's a blatant fucking lie, because Dungeon Meshi is obviously anime in it's artstyle just like Frieren is. The artstyle of Frieren and Dungeon Meshi share far more similarities than DM has towards Sword Lesbians.
>>97455822Yes, that's a big part of being an immortal.
>>97455804Your messy haired brownoid objectively has more in common with the sword lesbo messy haired brownoid than any character from frieren. This is objectively true and you have moved on to coping because you have no possible way of proving otherwise. If your next post isnt a picture of a messy haired brownoid from frieren then I accept your concession on this arguement.
>>97455826Anon, you're seething REAL hard for someone admitting they can't tell the difference between western arstyles and eastern ones.Just go get glasses, it's not a big deal. You'll be able to see much more clearly.
>>97455830I accept your concession
>>97455834As I accept yours. Have a nice day, mr. blind faggot.
>>97455817>Why did that adopted demon eat? HOW did it eat? Where did the food go?God I hate tertiaries. Demons evolved from mimics that used human speech to lure in prey. They eat like anything else but they aren't biological in the same way humans are. They actually can NOT eat humans if they bothered too but since the instinct is so normal they don't change their ways. Humans are prey to them. >I am not buying this whole "entirely alien" angle from the information I've been given, and I am feeling more and more right to have bailed.You are operating on basically no information and acting as if your assumptions are correct. Why should it matter what you do or do not "buy".
>>97455817You should watch the show before complaining; they can eat human food. They don't need to eat as much as living beings, but they can.
>>97455837 messin' with that Indo weed
>>97455837Still cant come up with a single character from frieren that looks more similar to your meshit nog than the lesbo character.
>>97455838I watched until the exam arc, anon.That's a primary. I just bailed when it became more and more certain it'd be shit.>>97455838>humans are prey to themNo, it doesn't sound like they're prey, that implies all sorts of consumption and such. They seem like just targets.Are you sure these aren't made by somebody?
>>97455825I think you're mentally retarded
>>97455847Uh-oh, looks like SOMEbody isn't satisfied with their concession.Mine was satisfying, I'll tell you that.
>>97455822>The show is literally about losing friends to death and how you can overcome that.Coincidentally, that's Marcille thing in Dungeon Meshi.
>>97455856Name a single character from frieren that looks more like your pet nog than the lesbo character. This is fucking hilarious.
>>97455855I think you weren't paying very much attention.
>>97455858Shit anon, you seem REALLY unsatisfied with how that argument ended, huh?
>>97455856>no uAnon if you are confidently correct surely you could provide the evidence he requested
>>97455857DM manages to handle the whole long lived race losing her shorter lived race friends to aging with more maturity and nuance than Frieren does.
>>97455851>I watched until the exam arc, anon.Then you weren't paying attention at all during the Aura saga. Anime-only is still a secondary since the manga is the primary source. Just an FYI for the future, don't take it so personally. > it doesn't sound like they're prey,Predators hunt prey. Demons going out of their way to keep attacking humans without even eating them is just their own instinctual foundation. Or did you forget someone like Qual made a spell that obliterated humans and used it en-masse for shits and giggles?>Are you sure these aren't made by somebody?nobody can answer that question at this point in the story.
>>97455857Okay, so?>>97455859You're the one who didn't understand the show.
>>97455863Anon, if you weren't an ESL you would see that I'm arguing that he's blind, and that he's agreed because he cannot differentiate anime and western art.
>>97455866Lmao no
Frieren fanboys sure get uppity when their slop of the season isn't being treated as the best thing since sliced bread.
>>97455862Why wont you show me a character that looks more like the meshit guy than the lesbo art? Surely this is an easy win for you since you are gloating?
>>97455871You just weren't paying much attention, sorry.>>97455868No, it really doesn't sound like they're prey. They have no need to hunt the humans, like you said. This sounds like an artificially created behavior. This kind of shit is purely detrimental to their survival, that doesn't randomly crop up.I think someone made these.
>>97455874Show him the picture you lying retard
>>97455871just pointing out the similarity, two is too few to call it a pattern
>>97455879>>97455885I already won when you proved you can't tell the difference between western art and anime, anon.I've been gloating about it since.You not getting what you want out of this is just the cherry on top.
>>97455877You say that in a thread where the DMcucks are literally crying for a bit of banter.
>>97455856>>97455862>>97455874Holy fuck its been a long time since ive seen a sniveling fag get BTFO so hard he plugs his ears and seethes.
>>97455893Anon, you've been seething for the better part of an hour because you need your eyes checked.
>>97455896I'm not a part of a redneck agenda
>>97455890>i cant do it because hes rightLmfao retard redditor
>>97455894I'm sorry that the information that you need an eye exam is so personally damaging to you, anon. Maybe if it hurts your feelings this much, next time don't admit that you can't tell the difference between anime and calarts.
>>97455882>I think someone made these.That doesn't change the fact that they predate humanity and decimated the human population at the height of the Demon King's reign. Whether they are "natural" or artificial, they exist as an evolution of human eating monsters and that's where we are at this point in the story. Demons have existed for over 1000 years at this point, there's nobody alive that can talk about what started the phenomenon of mana-monsters. >>97455877I don't even rate the series that high. But it's annoying when people that drop the story or haven't even engaged with it try and talk down or call out the writing with no information behind them.
>>97455882Nah, you're retarded.>>97455888Okay, so?
>>97455900>seething this hard after accepting concessionWhat, can you just not afford the glasses or something?
>>97455901You will do and say absolutely anything but the one thing that would actually win you the arguement. Maybe because you lost and have resorted to seething because you know you are wrong.
>>97455896>no uLmao
>>97455876Lmao yes. In DM the issue actually involves character development on part of Marcille, who obviously cares about her friends and thus the prospect of outliving them, like she outlived her father, is scary and distressing to her.Whereas Frieren, a supposedly thousand year old elf, first acts like an aloof and cold autist towards her friends and the dude who is obviously in love with her, apparently forgets that humans don't live forever, and never bothers visiting himmel again once the adventure is over, meaning that she just kept autistically collecting spells and whatever else for 80 fucking years, leaving himmel dead and then spends the rest of the anime reminicing about Himmel as if he mattered to her at all when she before hand did nothing to keep in touch with Himmel past the adventure.Simply put, Frieren at best reads as an emotionally immature autistic teenager, which does not work at all with the premise that she is a thousand years old, extremely powerful elven wizard.
>>97455902I think we should perhaps put more than no effort into finding out who made these obviously artificial bioweapons, anon.Perhaps they might have some kind of operator's manual, or kill switch.>>97455906>>97455908Anon, I won the argument the moment you admitted you couldn't tell the difference between the pictures.
>>97455911Post a frieren character with more in common. You wont because you cant.
>>97455911>I think we should perhaps put more than no effort into finding out who made these obviously artificial bioweapons, anon.well when you write that fan fiction. Make sure you post it on /tg/ so we can review it. I promise to read the first couple pages and then walk away after forming an opinion about the rest.
>>97455915This nigga is desperately trying to argue his argument when I won mine hours ago.
>>97455917I will instead assume the anime will answer that, eventually, in what will most likely be a less than satisfying manner.
>>97455923As long as we're dishonest with our media analysis together.
>>97455927I'm not sure what's dishonest about this, but whatever anon.
>>97455909No, the first thing Marcille does when she loses a friend is try to use black magic to bring her friend back to life and accidentally transform her into a monster.When Frieren loses someone, she tries to mature and move on after the loss. And she's not the only one who experiences this; several characters in the same series have similar arcs.
>>97455930>I'm not sure what's dishonest about thisI'm not surprised given our conversation.
>>97455919You wont because you cant. This is called losing the argument. The Dungeon meshi character LITERALLY has more in common with sword lesbo character than any character in Frieren. That was the original argument, an argument that you have objectively lost. You are the worst kind of redditor. The kind that knows they are wrong but continues to make a fool of themselves regardless. I pray you are able to get help for your psychosis. In the meantime have fun watching Thirsty Meshit Lesbians.
>>97455893This entire shitflinging started because some assmad frieren fanboy got upset at a 10 hour old post that spoke favorably about Dungeon Meshi over Frieren and started throwing buzzword soup around in place of actual arguments>>97454962
>>97455935>>97455934Ah, this man breaking down because he's just blind is great.
>>97455938It's a startling amount of angry to be having over what ultimately was a barely tepid disagreement.
>>97455938So what? This discussion continues because the Dungeon Meshi fanboy can't handle his own medicine.
>>97455933The notion that Frieren gave a fuck about Himmel doesn't work and feels contrived when she did fucking nothing to keep in touch with Himmel when he was still alive. Either she didn't give a fuck about him, or she is a fucking retard for forgetting that humans don't live forever and not keeping in touch for 80 years. The entire premise of Frieren's "grief" over Himmels death collapses under any scrutiny.Marcille's motivations, fears and actions actually flow from the story and characterization we see in Dungeon Meshi. Whereas with Frieren, we just have to assume that she secretly did care about Himmel despite doing NOTHING to remain in touch while he was still alive. To take Frieren's character arc about losing someone she cares about seriously you have to assume that she's a fucking retard that forgot that humans aren't immortal.
>>97455948Is -that- what you've been trying to do by failling basic object recognition?
>>97455952honestly i liked both shows, though only frieren at the beginning, so this squabble is kind of hilarious.
>>97455952>The notion that Frieren gave a fuck about Himmel doesn't work and feels contrived when she did fucking nothing to keep in touch with Himmel when he was still alive. Wow, you're retarded. You really can't understand a series as simple as this.I'm not even going to read the rest of the post; what you said is so stupid it surprises me, and I realize you can't argue like an adult.
>>97455958I liked Frieren at the beginning as well but the show's premise started to fall apart for me pretty fast for the various reasons listed in this thread, as in the generic world building, boring characters, the shounenslop elements creeping in and what not. To me, Dungeon meshi just works as a better story overall because it has more thought out setting, and better realized characters and motivations for those characters.For me, Frieren just devolved into generic slop the more episodes I watched whereas Dungeon Meshi kept me more and more engaged the further it went along. Ended up marathoning trough the manga as well once I watched the anime because I got hooked.
>>97455953Wow, seriously, don't you understand that you're arguing with several people?
>>97455967>>97455958Shit taste
>>97455968Not a one of you can tell the difference between a circle and a square.
>>97455952She traveled with Himmel for about 1% of her overall life, but didn't realize what that meant to her until he died. I actually agree that Dungeon Meshi has done more work to flesh out Marcille's angst regarding her own longevity, as well as making the varying lifespans of the other races more relevant. But to not get why death was the catalyst to get Frieren to actually register something when she's lived so much longer than anyone else is kind of silly.
>>97455967yeah, this was more to my experience as well. Lots less staying power with freiren. I'm not sure WHO her audience is.
>>97455977You're retarded. I never said they were the same, I correctly accused you of being a fanboy.
>>97455964>Wow, you're retarded. You really can't understand a series as simple as this.Nigger, what is there to not understand? Either Frieren is a retard that doesn't realize that humans don't have the lifespan of elves and thus her remaining out of touch for half a century just means that she essentially abandoned the human she supposedly cared about, or she never gave a fuck about him in the first place.The entire fucking story starts with Frieren returning to visit Himmel after decades only to find him infirm and at a death's door, and then sobbing about how she didn't get to know him when he dies. So either she is a fucking moron that didn't realize humans have a limited lifespan, or she didn't really care that much.>>97455978The notion that Himmel was the first human she cared about to die for her despite her being like a thousand years old just feels like a goofy premise to me.
>>97455991Who cares?
>>97455979You're in the minority, nigga
>>97455977Rich coming from someone that thinks an ugly nigger has more in common with frieren than another ugly nigger LMFAO
>>97455992>The notion that Himmel was the first human she cared about to dieHer mentor Flamme died first. Part of Frieren's way of honoring that is by tracking down her master's writings even if she thinks the lead might be a fake. Just in case it's actually real.
>>97455999Odd cope from someone who is legally blind.
>>97455998in what?
>>97456002>if i use the word blind one more time my ugly nigger will start to look like a frieren character!!
>>97456006I'm sorry anon, you admitted to being unable to tell the pictures apart. That shit's legal blindness. You can't drive with that kind of shit.
>>97455978Another thing the fanboy ignores is that Frieren is not the only one who goes through this trauma in the series.
>>97456001Oh yeah, there was that part of her characterization as well. Overall I just don't buy the notion that she gave that much of a fuck about Himmel no matter how many flashbacks and moments of introspection she has about him past his death. The very fact that she remained out of touch for half a century with Himmel just fucks up the entire premise for me and forces me to either conclude that she's a retard that forgot that humans are mortal, or that she didn't care. You don't go awol for decades on people you actually care about.
>>97456011I am not sure why you are acting like fanboy is some kind of insult when you obviously care this much about freiren.
>>97456004Everyone loves Frieren
>>97456020The vast majority of people don't watch or know about anime.
>>97456013>>97455992You're retarded. The point of the first episode is that she didn't understand humans and their way of life. Another point is that she never understood herself and her feelings; notice how she talks about her great adventure.
>>97456013>Overall I just don't buyBut I've got some good things on sale for ya Stranger. Seriously though, this isn't a hard thing to understand. She's lived a long time and seen a large amount of people die. But she really did connect with Himmel during their 10 years together but that wasn't enough to override literal centuries of habitual wandering and his death was the catalyst for her to actually start to mature. It's also not like she magically got better either, she had to be tricked by Heiter just to take care of Fern and that was about another 6 years spent training the kid and deciphering a fake book. Presently the goal is to go to the demon king's castle because it is said (by her master Flamme) to be a place where souls can manifest, all so she can talk with Himmel again. It's not super deep but what is there works.
>>97456023Lmao You really live in a bubble
>>97456010Hey before I end this argument and take the W home with me can you please just tell me that you are Br*tish so I can go to sleep feeling even more right than I already do.
>>97456046Nope, not british.here, have five or six concessions, I'm sure they'll feel much more satisfying than that first one you didn't like.I'm still fine with the one I've got. Rare to meet such a blind nigger.
>>97456041I must also say, again, Frieren is not the only character who has to deal with the death of a loved one. Even secondary characters have to deal with it.
>>97456043Universal acclaim is a rather tall claim to make with a somewhat niche media.
>>97456053Says the idiot who spent the whole thread defending a nigger
>>97456037And the notion that a thousand years old elf, who was mentored in magic by a human, wouldn't understand humans or their way of life, let alone her own feelings, is fucking goofy and immature. She is characterized as an autistic teenager rather than a thousand years old nigh immortal being. The premise does not handle the concept of immortality with any sense of maturity because it fails to treat the supposed immortal being with more maturity than a teenager.>>97456041It's been years since I saw frieren but honestly, the whole connection she supposedly had with Himmel seems very flimsy to me. I don't remember there being really any chemistry between them in the flashback scenes, as most of them just showed the dynamic of Himmel's onesided fondness/love towards Frieren, and Frieren acting like an aloof and cold autist towards Himmel. The story just kind of assumes that there was some connection/bond between the two but doesn't really showcase it.
>>97456057Yeah, Fern lost her adoptive father. Denken lost his wife and for many years his homeland was basically dead and gone. There was a point from that other elf talking about how his kind basically assume new identities when everyone forgot about their current one as he is currently a monk but I think was implied to have been a famous swordsman centuries back. There's thematic relevance to Frieren's own journey tied into the core of the story.
>>97456062Ok
>>97456071Anon, you're the one who said everyone.You literally moved the goalposts yourself.
>>97456065>And the notion that a thousand years old elf, who was mentored in magic by a human, wouldn't understand humans or their way of life, let alone her own feelings, is fucking goofy and immature. She spent a thousand years alone in a forest avoiding humans, it's obvious she won't understand them
>>97456065I wasn't bothered by the immortal being basically a teen as I've seen a number of adults and elderly people who are at a level I'd describe as "toddler-like".
>>97456065>It's been years since I saw frieren but honestly, tThen you also don't remember how Flamme told her to not gain notority because she was to be an anti-demon weapon and the less known about her, the better. So yeah, I can get that she really was fond of Himmel but lacked the emotional maturity and self reflection to recognize this and override a lifetime of solitude and indifference.
>>97456077Are you retarded? I told you that you were in the minority and I said "Everyone loves Frieren" to describe its popularity.Your counterargument was "Um actually" which had nothing to do with the discussion. It's obvious that not everyone watched this series, but it's objectively popular.
>>97455383>If you cannot appreciate Frieren, you may be soulless. It is not that I think that it is the best thing since baked bread, but if you cannot see the appeal and find it "unimaginative" you're literally a husk in some way. let's not go crazy, herefrieren had a strong start, reminding you that even heroes get old and showing the merciless passage of timeit was melancholic and uncomfortable and fairly adultbut it failed to follow it up with anything of meritthese days it's mostly known for that tedious discussion about always-evil demonsand in terms of visuals it is absolute white noise, far cry from the retro style of wearing an entire magic shop on your personyour points about ranma are spot on, however
>>97456082Yes, many monsters/spirits/gods behave like idiotic teenagers in various mythologies around the world.I don't know why he's surprised that a hermit who spent thousands of years in a forest isn't the most mature being
>>97456101You already did several stupid things this conversation, I just accepted that you moved the goalposts on yourself, sorry.Which, it turns out, was vastly more interesting than your actual argument, as who was more popular doesn't matter. I'd be shocked if either of these were topping any lists.
>>97456088True, I didn't remember that part. Her living in self imposed isolation does explain a bit of her being a cluless moron about human societies, but still doesn't really excuse the whole "goes awol for a half a century on a person she supposedly cared about" thing.
>>97456108>these days it's mostly known for that tedious discussion about always-evil demonsIt doesn't really matter, it just makes leftists look like idiots again.And the visuals and animation are excellent.
>>97456117That also has an explanation; she has a different perception of time.The several Himmel flashbacks are because, from his point of view, they happened recently.For her, fifty years is like a month; she has no mortal perception of time.
>>97456126Ah, I finally get why you are so upset. To you Frieren vs Dungeon Meshi is some sort of culture war battle rather than people just evaluating these shows on their own merits. You think Frieren is somehow "right wing coded" and Dungeon Meshi is "left wing" hence all the buzzwords you threw around about it.
>>97456114You're retarded, there was never a goalpost. Your opinion is in the minority and it doesn't matter. Besides, you're an uninteresting guy.
>>97456166Oh no, you've forgotten your own posts.
>>97456117Just like she waited 50 years to re-visit everyone to fulfill her promise to see the next meteor shower. She also took 20 years to seek out Heiter after Himmel died and I think close to a decade to meed Eisner. She doesn't see time the same way and it still is an effort to get her to consider the lives of humans. Like how she was fine spending years in jail or indentured servitude because what's 5 years to an elf? I really cannot stress that you seem to have barely paid any attention to the anime since I know all this information was presented in it.
>>97456126>And the visuals and animation are excellent.I'm not going to launch into the modern sakuga discussion while the thread is endingbut just in terms of character design, frieren is super plain and I will stand by that
>>97456152Is that his beef?What a retard.
>>97456186That is what I've gathered from this silly argument itt.
>>97456152No, actually I like both shows. But it's obvious that the Dungeon Meshi fanbase is pure cancer; the fact that you won't admit you're a fanboy proves it.When the other anon compared that character to thirsty sword lesbians, it made me laugh and didn't make me cry like a snowflake like you did.But I must admit that I like Frieren more, although I love both shows.
>>97456189Dungeon Meshi's fanbase wasn't the topic of discussion at any point, you goalpost shifting, disengenious fuck. I don't give a fuck about some fanbase, I give a fuck about the quality of the respective shows.
>>97456185The fact that you include the busty violet girl and not the other two characters from the main group forces me to disagree with you.>but just in terms of character design, frieren is super plain and I will stand by thatIn fact, that's what I like about their designs. Sometimes it's okay to be extra with the designs, but simplicity is something I always love.
>>97456192KekThanks for proving me right, redditor
>>97456204the fact that you chose to nitpick which characters the example image shows forces me to conclude that further discussion with you would not be a very rewarding experience
>>97456212Acting like a disengenious kike, arguing in bad faith and constantly moving the goalpost regarding what you are even arguing about, in no way proves any actual point, retard.The one clear troughline in this shitflinging you instagated has been you being upset over people dissing Frieren and stating that they prefer Dungeon Meshi over it, that's it. Everything else has been just goopy waffle of rhetoric and buzzwords you have shifted around as it suits your purposes because, despite accusing others of being fanboys, it is blatantly obvious that you are extremely fanboyish about Frieren and are upset that people criticise it. The guess that to you this is some culture war thing, is the closest thing to some actual reason I could figure out for your behavior because otherwise I can't fathom why you'd act this way.
>>97456228Hey, I can complain if you didn't include my favorite character in your example. You might be surprised, but I like both series' design philosophies; not everything has to have the same aesthetic.>>97456240You keep crying, kid, nobody cares.
>>97456254You clearly care very deeply given the childish shitflinging you have been enagaged in for almost 5 hours now. All over people daring to criticise the generic isekai tier slop that Frieren is.
>>97456257Okay, Redditor, thanks for losing this argument for good. It was fun watching you cry.Well, it feels good to win
>>97456268
>>97456270
>>97454268Yea it's only one of the most popular recent anime, but nobody watches it yep yep.
>>97455417how do you know they're not typical? what is the total number of imaginary adventuring groups, and how many of those are you familiar with? why should they be typical?
>>97455556Get eye surgery first, then we can discuss what things look like.
>>97455557yeah. since they're drawn in different styles, they aren't drawn in the same style. are you new to the English language?
>>97455596literally different character, you mean.
>>97456101It is not the case that everyone loves it, so you lied.
>>97456065>. She is characterized as an autistic teenager rather than a thousand years old nigh immortal being.This. It's one thing if she was a dignified adult elf entrenched in elven mores and culture that prevented her from discarding propriety to consort romantically with a human in a human time frame vs "brb Himmel (that means 50 years btw because i'm an ELF haha get it we have no reasonable understanding of time consciousness!)"
my 5 cent on Frieren demons are summed up in one sentence: death of the author.We simply dont know much about demon in the world of Frieren.Are they born like other mortals?No said the author, they dont know there mothers yet alone love.Meanwhile the anime shows clear social abilty to not kill on sight with deep know how to talk and reason themself in and out of everything.A simple: They eat human flesh/souls would helped or make them looking less humans with horns would helped to convey the idea of them being 100% evil and not just an adversary to the mortals.Heck we have in universe proof that demons can life next to humans solong the author isnt forcing the demons to do needless/stupit killing out of nowhere.But i could be wrong and maybe are wrong in details but in other animes its less of a problem to find out who the bad guys are while in Frieren... it could, even if the author claims it isnt.
>>97454371They have limitations on what they can do, and Transmute Rock to Mud actually rapidly enacts a specific physical process (erosion + liquefaction).
>>97458561IIRC demons were never said to be evil.And they are not, at least no more evil than a hungry bear mauling you to death.They evolved from predators that mimicked human speech to lure in prey, at least that's what I remember being said about them.They are alien to other races, being essentially high-functioning sociopaths, at least to our perception of them.As such, they have a different theory of mind, projecting their perception onto others and acting accordingly - i.e. transactional interactions between self-serving individuals.It appears also, that they may be lacking the capacity to empathize with others, as evidenced by even their children being rather… inhuman mentally.They understand what feelings are and how they may affect people, but they themselves may not experience them, at least in the same way humans do.
>>97458800this rises the question if there are demons that have human villages as a backupplan or petting zoo.being a high-functioning sociopaths does not mean you are unable to feel kindness.
>>97451627>>97451600>man this lord of the rings is so low stakes, I stopped reading after the old man birthday party
