Beat that bone! EditionPrevious Thread:>>97237452Check out here for useful links and a catalogue of relevant miniatures retailers:https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLnThe Rogue Trader magazine article compilation:https://gofile.io/d/yNK9bq
Anybody know which issue of WD is this pic from?
>>97451775#97
>>97451595Ive always felt that the cut off was 3rd for 40k and 6th for WHF. Things changed after those editions.
>>97451786Correct. Thank you.
>>97439098 hereHas anybody ever printed an stl that has all the artifacts of being miniature scan without any cleaning?I’m just wondering because I’d like to know if those artifacts are meaningless or if they really make a difference on the printed results.Figured this would be a good place to ask.
>>97451835Strictly speaking, the cutoff for oldhammer should be around Bryan Ansell's departure from GW, so 3e Fantasy and Rogue Trader are the last "true" Oldhammer editions.Oldhammer is synonymous with mostly metal models (besides some select plastics), narrative and scenario focused gameplay, encouragement to use a GM, no army codexes, and less standardised art direction.4e Fantasy and 2e 40k onwards was a big shift in direction towards herohammer and "golden age" gameplay, which is why the 90s-00s are often called middle hammer.Times do change, though, and recently more and more people refer to pre-00s Warhammer as Oldhammer. The new cut-off seems more focused in chronological distance from the present rather than differences in game design and scope.>>97452088It depends on the kind of artifacts the scanning prices created.>soft details that need sharpening will result in a miniature that looks blobby and poorly detailed>grit and noise on surfaces will give the print rough, textured surfaces that don't look very good >mold lines, sprue nubs and the like will just look like they do on any other badly cleaned mini>bad geometry, air pockets and floating leftover polygons can lead to slicer errors, failed prints and resin traps, which are a big no no.The good thing is that it only takes some videos and a little blender knowledge to learn how to fix most of these things on your own.
>>97452279>The good thing is that it only takes some videos and a little blender knowledge to learn how to fix most of these things on your own.I don’t have access to my computer that can run blender at the moment and probably not for a while but has blender become idiot proof for this sort of thing?Know any specific tutorials on this subject I can look into and favorite on my phone to check out later when I get my proper pc back?
Eyup lads
>>97452279Yeah, in this you see the same process that unfolded with the OSR movement for D&D, which also has "old" in the title and so led newbies to overly focus on that at the expense of the actual history of the movement, which in both cases came out of blogs and forums and is increasingly hard to find in this internet dark age of crippled search and walled-garden social media experiences.
>>97452279>the cutoff for oldhammer should be around Bryan Ansell's departure from GW,i think the cut off should be 2e. 2e 40k is still mechanically more complex than anything that came after and while i agree to a point about the feel RT had plastics, 2e was still plenty metal.It's also very neat when you do grouping because 3e can be the start and book end of middlehammer, mechanically i mean.>pre 00s as old hammerbro i saw people saying "oldhammer" with 4th and talking about how PEAK it was.i started in 4th now i feel old.
>>97453156>in the title and so led newbies to overly focus on that at the expense of the actual history of the movementcan you explain?
>>97454088I started in 4th too and I think it’s my favorite edition by far. Although I haven’t tried RT-3rd. I want to try second but there’s no community near me. And from what I read 4th edition is just an improved 3rd so there’s no real reason to try 3rd instead of 2nd.
>>97454103>so there’s no real reason to try 3rd instead of 2nd.Codexs.I would not want to play the late Gav codexs.3.5 to 4e chaos was such a downgrade the rage can be felt to this very day.Gay Throb shall never be forgiven
>>974518356th is not oldhammer. It's a solid edition, a great one even, but it's by no means oldhammer and it isn't even middlehammer either. If oldhammer is 1st-3rd, and middlehammer is 4th-5th, or the herohammer editions, and newhammer is arguably 7th and definitely 8th, then 6th is something else. There's an argument that 6th and 7th belong in the same category seeing as their core rules are almost identical, but don't let a 6th ed enthusiast hear you say that. So, what's between middlehammer and newhammer? Nothing that belongs in this thread, that's for sure, but just as there's a discussion to be had about whether the distinctions between oldhammer vs. middlehammer vs. newhammer are about the rules or about the aesthetics, there's also a discussion about why we even have these categories in the first place and if there's room for a fourth, but that's really neither here nor there. 6th is 6th, you don't have to make it out to be anything it isn't because the edition is worthy of standing on its own.
I want to get into digitally sculpting and I plan on sculpting oldhammer looking models.What makes an oldhammer model have such aesthetics? And what’s the best methods of digitally sculpting the details that makes a model have that oldhammer look?I think I’m retarded and autistic because I can look at oldhammer looking models and still not get how to recreate that oldhammer look. Even when looking at digital sculpts that I think captures the aesthetics.
>>97452576Dang that's pretty cool
>>97454088>i think the cut off should be 2e.Nah, we is mechanically more similar to 3e than rogue trader, even though it is more complex than it's successors.Likewise, 2e army lists are codex based and units use the new simplified statlines. You can clearly see the vibe shift between the Realm of Chaos books and 4e Fantasy/2e 40k, which is really not surprising as GW wanted to modernise the game.>>97454255I'd say 6th is still part of middlehammer if only because it is part of the "golden age" of Warhammer, even though, as you mentioned, it is notably distinct from its surrounding editions. You do bring up a very important point re: categories, as the ones currently in place were defined in the late 00s and only really make sense at that point in time, nowadays we'd need at least 2 more categories after nuhammer to encapsulate the current state of the games. The Warhammer Renaissance project tried to condense the middlehammer vibe by combining elements from 4th-6th editions, it's fun.>>97454572A big part of it is the hand sculpted feel, a somewhat flat pose to aid with the casting process and the fact that the sculptors were also painters, so details are large, easy to read and often include varied textures and surfaces.Anatomical proportions tend to be stylised and nonstandard even within members of the same armies, due to the hand sculpted nature of the models, nothing is symmetrical or geometrically perfect, there's always a sense of roughness or imperfection.Details are sharp but not thin, to take advantage of the high fidelity of reproduction that metal provides whilst minimising breakage and bubbles, limbs, weapons and decorations will often be merged to other, more solid parts of the mini to make it less spindly.When sculpting, I'd try to avoid poly modeling, cloning parts or using symmetry as much as possible, instead, do it all in blender's sculpt mode (or equivalent) working as though you were sculpting a physical model using green stuff.
>>97452380>has blender become idiot proof for this sort of thing?I can't give you a honest answer as I've been using it for about 10 years now. I feel like it's infinitely more intuitive than it was when I first started using it, but that's to be expected. If you're completely new to it, then it'll probably take you some time to get familiar enough. Given how secretive the scanning community is, I doubt there's many videos that give you a step-by-step for cleaning and getting scans ready to print, but you can definitely extrapolate that info from more general 3d printing pipeline videos. Get familiarised with the lingo, interface and concepts, then pretty much anything you want to do should be a Google search away.Now, if you have a tablet (or decently sized phone) you can also get Nomad Sculpt, which is what many miniature sculptors use nowadays, it's extremely intuitive and easy to use, lots of community tutorials, particularly related to miniatures and 3d printing. The only downside is that it can lag somewhat on slower devices and requires a 30+ buck purchase.
>all this talk of what's oldhammer and what isn'tIs 3rd 40k and 6th WHF welcome in this thread then? I mean there was 17 years between WHF 1st and 6th, compared to 23 years between 6th and TOW... Even if stylistically they are Middlehammer, they are definitely dated and only played by balding dads in their 40s and 50s. It's true that it doesn't really belong in either era, the true old new or the nu-school but I feel like on a spiritual level they are honorary.
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>>97455921
>>97455924
>>97455931
>>97455939
Prepared to get my head fucking stoved in but are there any games like classic 1E 40k/RT with more slimline rules that would be better suited to solo campaign play? I don't mind having to just play two factions at once, I'm used to GMing games and even simulating fights between my players' sheets and bosses/enemies to see how I've balanced a fight, so I'm not really fussed about double-fisting, I mostly just want something that'd be a bit easier to set up than RT. I mostly just wanna plonk some beakies and orks down with a skein of narrative and see where it goes. Unit cohesion, army rules etc are secondary to this really.I've been trying to scratch up a homebrew skirmish game anyway but a dependable system would be nice since my game is still in playtesting.
>>97455994Space Weirdos, Planet 28?Xenos Rampant for a few more beakies and orks
>>97456470Much appreciated- I'd heard of Space Weirdos but haven't given it a proper read through yet. Will be sure to check out P28 and Xenos Rampant.
>>97455994Renegade Scout seems the obvious suggestion.
>>97456470>Xenos rampant >planet28Can I get a rundown on both games and how they play and what mindset/methods I have to have to properly homebrew stuff for the system?
>>97451700>harry the hammerI’m unashamedly shilling here.DiehardMiniatures has two harry the hammer metal mini.Oldhammer style.https://diehardminiatures.com/product/harry-the-hammer-chaos-warrior/The other is “pre-sale” so probably best to hold off for now.https://diehardminiatures.com/product/presale-hammer-fist-harry-chaos-general/How’s the quality of diehardminiature resins? He does mostly metal but I want to know how the resin quality is.
>>97454093ntayrt Much confusion arises from >old school being in the title. While this had a clear or at least clarifiable initial meaning, many have taken it to be for anything old, rather than the specific era it was aiming at. This got taken up by marketing once it became popular and now is applied to anything vaguely D&D shaped. This causes a great deal of confusion as those more familiar with the less specific definition attempt to inhabit the same dialogue spaces as those more accustom to the original definitions. This becomes further exacerbated by various culture war accelerants who latch onto one or another of the sides and generally make dialogue increasingly difficult as monetization shifts from making game products to making >content While it is likely the best course to clearly and politely engage in dialogue, have a respectful range and discussion, it will inevitably become diluted over time in exchange for more material. At a certain point it stops being worth the effort but that's likely a few years away at least. Baring particularly aggressive shitflinging mixed in with monitizable ecleberty problems. /grg/ and oldhammer is likely a bit more immunized to this than osr, as it tends to at least require more effort so the low input grift is harder to pull off and the rules light fad is falling a bit. Not impossible and is already underway with the 28 scene but probably slower and less fucked.
>>97455994Literally Renegade Scout. Its the RT retrocolone with a lot of solo play and GM stuff built in.
>>97452380>>97452380Regarding the blender question, I have first seriously started using it a few weeks ago to make some 6mm epic scale stuff for myself, which to be clear is probably a relatively easy use-case. I have found it to be not too difficult to grasp the very basics of, but a large hurdle is identifying what tools to use to solve a particular need/problem. I was able to make the first couple of components I wanted and print them out without too much trouble slowly and steadily, I feel that it is certainly learnable.Everyone has different attitudes about this so your interest, mileage may vary but: I have found chatbots to be very helpful for figuring out how to do certain tasks in blender because you are able to frame questions to them more casually than regular internet searching, which is helpful if you don't have a grasp on the terminology yet.
>>97455886>>97455931Those are cool. But no Daemonettes?>>97455942Are those Dwarfs? Looks like Chaos Dwarfs.
I've been wondering, has there ever been an effort to retro clone 3rd edition Fantasy in a similar vein to Renegade Scout? I love the game to bits, but my old copy fell apart and PDFs are just too inconvenient on the table.>>97458922They're realm of chaos warbands, so mortal followers only. Source is this blog: https://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com/2014/08/showcasing-my-realm-of-chaos-armies-for.html?m=0Really nice stuff in it, worth a read.
>>97455994C'mere so I can stove your head in.You're already going to the extra trouble of playing all three roles of the game by yourself, now is not the time to go looking for chaff to cut. Have some conviction, play it like it's 1988.
>>97459505Thanks. Very /grog/ blogpost.
>>97458005Okay so, if i understand OSR started as an attempt to continue the spirit of the older systems but became an aesthetic handle that packaged the appearance of something old rather than the spirit of it. >culture warI mean i was going to present examples but everything i thought of was a loaded topic so yeah.OSR is also just extremely confusing to me as a topic because i associate the older systems with detailed mechanics and simulation elements. >Not impossible and is already underway with the 28 scene but probably slower and less fucked.I kinda look at anything calling itself "28" with skepticism. Except Turnip28 those guys are pretty nice guys.28 feels like art projects as opposed to games to me, and they're done quite well but I want CRUNCH. I hope your prediction regarding the rules light fad does drop, or split.Rules light games offer a lot of options and occasional depth but i just want to play a sim game again.
>>97460431Never got around to replying to you, but the other anon handled it well.Without veering too far off-topic here, the OSR was after not just the vague idea of "old" D&D (again, with old just being "whatever I think is old"), but the very specific playstyle that came with a very specific subset of editions. Rules changes aside compared to newer editions, it was a fundamentally different game in terms of what it was even trying to do. 2nd ed AD&D breaks the tone and some of the rules, and 3rd D&D dispenses with all of it altogether, and all of that is irrelevant to whether or not you prefer one or the other as games. To bring it back to Oldhammer, think of Rogue Trader. That's not a case of "it's just modern 40K, but with some old art and different modifiers and they didn't have all the armies out yet". That's a completely different game in terms of what sort of gameplay experience it tries to provide.I don't know Fantasy, so I couldn't say if there's an equivalent in terms of editions there, but this is why an aimless focus on just "I think it's old" is so useless and pushed back on by people in those gaming spaces. Everything gets old eventually, but no matter how many centuries pass, 6th ed 40K or 3rd ed D&D or whatever aren't magically going to become "old-school" in the very specific sense that the old-school movements in question are looking at. If there's a lesson here for the future, it's that if you're going to make a design / play movement based off of something in the past, don't hang "old" on it as a label and expect to avoid confusion or the need to constantly be educating new arrivals who show up with perfectly justified questions.
>>97460483I've seen young pups use 4e as an example of oldhammer so i agree generally and feel old. I'm admittedly here because 1. i want to play a characterful 2e army and RT sculpts, the kev adams style is what i'm hunting for and 2. i thought 2e fit.The impression i'm getting is this is WARBAND-hammer, leaning more to low model count, heavily RPG influenced systems and not the clunky simulation games i started wargaming with (i started with battletech so i think of wargames as extremely crunch heavy sim games) am i off base?
>>97454103>I started in 4th too and I think it’s my favorite edition by far. Although I haven’t tried RT-3rd. I want to try second but there’s no community near me. And from what I read 4th edition is just an improved 3rd so there’s no real reason to try 3rd instead of 2nd.The core rules were very similar, with the exception of vehicles (heavy overhaul, especially walkers) and the Assault phase (which was mostly tweaking). The codex changes for 4e, on the other hand, changed the feel of the game quite a lot. Unless you were orks or DE...Basically the changes>2eRPG -> more structured wargame. Wildly overpowered stuff all over the place, you just couldn't afford it. Very small forces, 2e was more of a platoon-scale game for most armies. Baroque and often weird rules>3e BBBHeavy streamlining and gutted out wargear for everyone. Almost no special characters or army special rules. Got light patches years later. Went to a unified combat mechanic for speed. Tourneyfagging begins to take root>3e (late)Began embracing a make-your-own codex design. Renaissance of kitbashing and goofy theme armies. "40k in 40 minutes" appears and explodes in popularity. Specialist Games at its height, along with non-GW hobby advice>4eKill team created as a separate narrative game in main rules to replace 40k/40m with something GW owns. Tourneyfagging becomes much more common, and Codexes get trimmed/reworked to sell more stuff. DiY customization was already being removed; losing the Chapterhouse lawsuit makes GW pull anything they don't have a model for in retaliation. Specialist Games shuttered, GW begins pushing for Battlezones. White Dwarf goes back to being a nearly-pure ad rag>5eThe enshittening continues. Flyers. New vehicle rules to make them less fragile. GW pushes to normalize Epic units in 28mm instead of having them be cool one-offs. Forge World brought more and more to heel instead of being allowed to do their own thing. Every army gets to experience picrel
>>97461134What about Rogue trader?
>>97461134>Kill team created as a separate narrative game in main rules to replace 40k/40m with something GW ownsCombat Patrol was 40k in 40 minutes and was in the rulebook alongside killteam.>Tourneyfagging Nobody should be giving a fuck what tourneyfags are doing, and negative fucks about what they were doing 20 years ago.>Codexes get trimmed/reworked to sell more stuff. DiY customization was already being removed>White Dwarf goes back to being a nearly-pure ad ragYes, but not until halfway through the edition (after the Tau codex) and it's disingenuous to not mention this, especially when splitting 3rd.>Chapterhouse lawsuit Filed mid 5th edition and settled around the start of 7th.>Specialist Games shutteredTerrible, but irrelevant to 40k.>GW begins pushing for BattlezonesCityfight was 3rd edition.
>>97460569You may also want to look into WarEngine and Mutant Chronicles/Warzone 1e. They have very similar aesthetics, were started by some of the same people who were involved with early GW, and likewise go for less tournament-focused, more creative force design. They're more of an /awg/ thing but definitely groghammer adjacent.>Kev AdamsHe kept doing stuff after GW. You can find a bunch of his models, especially goblin and Chaos, in metal at Ral Partha Europe and a little at Impact Miniatures as resin recasts>>97461402Eh. Only had so many characters to work with. Yes, White Dwarf going down the shitter was a late 4e thing. And yes, the final loss in Chapterhouse was years after they panicked and started gutting codexes.>nobody should give a fuck about tourneyfagsCorrect. Except, GW did. They IDed them as prime whaling targets.>Losing SG is irrelevant to 40kYou mean aside from all the 40k stuff they were making? It marks a major shift in attitudes as the business WAACfags take over the company and kick all the hackers and social gamers out. You know, the guys who were writing hobby stuff for WD, or the mainline codexes and Chapter Approved articles alongside the Journal.Cityfight was an experiment, like the Armageddon and EoT campaigns, and easily ignored by the average player. It also had a lot of useful stuff in the book even if you weren't using the extra rules. It sold a lot. GW learned the wrong lesson.
>>97454088Game mechanics have little to do with it, they're all over the place in every period. It's about describing the state of the IP and the general state of GW as an entity at a given time. 2nd might be crunchier than 3rd(though personally I always thought that claim was overegged even at the time - it's a difference of degree not kind), but it and 4th WHFB are the first point where GW had a sense of operating in a more professional/business-y manner, consolidating and curating all their previous more slapdash creative efforts into single, coherent products. 3rd & 4th 40K and 5th & 6th WHFB are evolutions/iterations of that core approach - design that was professionalised but not yet fully corporatised, the mix of Official and scrappy DIY. The next major shift comes in the wake of the LotR bubble bursting with 5th 40K and 7th WHFB which begin the terminal phase of Kirby's tenure and nakedly focus on harvesting profit with all other considerations secondary, and it's also around that point that you find most of the old guard who actually created and developed the IPs have moved on or been promoted into management sinecures. This phase persists until End Times and Gathering Storm reset both the main IPs to function as narratives rather than settings, refocusing the business model on intense churn through tournament culture and balance updates.I'm sticking with:Oldhammer - RT & 1st-3rd WHFBMiddlehammer - 2nd-4th 40K, 4th-6th WHFBNewhammer - 5th-7th 40K, 7th-8th WHFBNuhammer - 8th 40K and AoS to present day.
>>97460569>>97461463Kev Adam's also has his own websitehttps://www.goblinmaster.online/
>>97461235It was very free form and basically required a GM. I had the good fortune to play in a RT campaign in 91-92, and it only worked because a *very* dedicated GM put in a lot of time writing scenarios and attempting to balance the game with his own points system, which was a never ending process due to White Dwarf rules bloat. Also, any unit being charged got to shoot at the charging unit first, which obviously made melee tricky at best and counterproductive at worst. The single biggest thing that I remember going from RT to 2e was that melee suddenly became valid. (Sometimes.)>also the paint jobs sucked back then compared with today>yeah they looked fine in white dwarf but those guys had model-building grade acrylics which didn't exist in the us>most guys my age initially learned to paint with testors oil enamels because that's all there was
>>97461819Why Goblins? Not Orcs?
A lot of the Meridian Miniatures and Knightmare miniatures orcs+goblins are also by Kev in recent years.He gets about.
>>97465521Goblins are more cartoony, mischievous, sinister, and silly.
>>97461463>Mutant Chronicles/Warzone 1eoh yeah i've got like 10 pounds of minis for warzone, all of the 1e minis were on sale for 25c at my local store. played the res nova version and liked it getting people to play 1e is hard as much as i find it cool.i am looking for sci-fi orks and less Ral Partha and - impact sells heartbreaker but didn't/wasn't heartbreaker like Chronpia related.>>97466511I'm waiting partially. Knightmare doens't post all of the ork minis or the arms. apparently he was going to do another kickstarter last year but it didn't come aroundMeridian isn't bad, 60 quid for a 11 man ork unit is ROUGH but i'm waiting for them to come up again. the Goff command is fucking kino.and his grots for Knightmare, fuck if they put out a sale i'd get two.
>>97467335>impact sells heartbreaker but didn't/wasn't heartbreaker like Chronpia related.Heartbreaker started out when Big Bob Watts and a few other guys from O.G. Games Workshop quit alongside Ansell. Kind of like when the Morrisons got tired of management and founded Marauder Minis, or what happened with the Perries when they were told they couldn't do historicals anymore. Heartbreaker started out doing generic fantasy stuff and WHF proxies, then made Warzone/Mutant Chronicles to do the "integrated SF multimedia franchise" thing, only they were a lot more aggressive about it than most companies of the era. Quite successfully, as well. Chronopia was part of their CCG-fueled expansion phase late in the life of the company, as was buying Prince August and prepping for a cheap plastic boxed set. Then Pokemon popped the CCG bubble, GW brought out 3e (which was wildly successful), they started writing books that the cast/sculpt schedule for the minis games couldn't keep up with, and from that point on Heartbreaker was playing catch-up until they went bankrupt. The one-two punch of 3e and Pokemon killed a shitload of companies alongside them. The guys from Heartbreaker used the bankruptcy to spin off Prince August (Ireland), dumped the debt into Heartbreaker, then founded Scotia Grendel and went for a more limited scope with Urban Warfare and Void.
>>97466896Makes sense. I thought about whats cooler.
>>97461695This is the correct assessment
>>97461819Man some of those minis are so cool. I don't even collect gobbos but I want to now.
I am curious and want to play some older games. What’s some general etiquette a youngster should know of when getting into the grog scene?I’m a 1999 zoomer if that has any impact.
>>97468895Read the rules. Work towards having your own painted models. Be polite and conversational. Stronger emphasis on narrative play than tournament competition. although convention events can have things that seem competitive like space car death race. There's wacky rng results, learn to roll with them, its just a game. Depending on where you live there's a variety of oldhammerish events and conventions you might be able to attend, might help to look into those as a more tangible example of the culture in your area. /tg/s takes on etiquette are likely a bit off. Avoid discussing politics probably.
>>97467335>Knightmare salethey usually do a free shipping(in EU) sale every yearseems to be around autumn
Good evening /grog/s. I just scored an original RTB8 Predator from a local seller. It has the sponsons as well as railings intact, so 25€ for it felt decent. There's only one blemish to it, the main turret cannon barrel is broken. That's easy enough to scratchbuild, but how thick and how long exactly should it be to match the original?
>>97470507Total length that's protruding: about 4.4cm, width 4.4mm.Length of the main shaft as compared to the lascannon (back of triangle bit to mould line on muzzle) 4.6cmReferencing this dusty old bitch that needs paint stripping and repairs, for some but surprisingly not all of the usual breakables broke and there are still exhaust pipes. Might skip the side rails, may armour up the front if I can find the wedge. or just convert it with some classic improvised armour, get a stormbolter on that turret, put some power & coolant cables on the those lascannon. Swap the big imperial eagle plate from its butt to the front if I can't find a wedge.
>>97471170* sorry that should be width 3mm not 4mm
>>97471170Thank you so much anon!! Cheers! Of course some eyeballing will be required but it's really nice to have some numbers. Still not sure which main weapon I'll scratch build. Neother sounds too much of a challenge.As said, the lascannon sponsons are present. I saw a very nice conversion in Youtube where somebody used magnetized heavy bolters from a Horus Heresy kit and it looked really neat. I have spares from a Mk2 Razorback, but we'll see how it all turns out.Thanks again.
>>97467535>then founded Scotia Grendel and went for a more limited scope with Urban Warfare and Void.oh shit, i have been eyeing those UW commandos. didn't know everything was connected. Shame to because like, VOID's world is less fun/interesting to me than WZMC.No Furies, no play, simple as.>>97470057apparently they're doing faction based sales every month, (instagram)
>>97471962yeah, quite a few early Heartbreaker minis are almost certainly unfinished personal sculpts that hadn't been handed over to GW yet. Then there's a dozen or so Urban War minis that are clearly lightly-resculpted Warzone stuff. Pic very related, it's just an alt sculpt of a Ducal Militia sergeant. Even in Warzone many of the models are done in the Oldhammer style; Dr. Donna is a near perfect R63 of the old RT Techpriest Zon despite coming out in '97, the Cartel Medic is just a Cadian, etc.
>>97473681For reference - Zon
>>97473757And Dr. Diana (courtesy of Mathias, mine is not quite painted to the same standard)
>>97466511He also did a big order for oldschoolminiatures recently
>>97471962>apparently they're doing faction based sales every month, (instagram)Lol, didn't know that. Why is it so hard for these smaller miniature producer companies to maintain a proper logical channel for news and info... At least Knightmare's website is kind of working and easy to use for buying stuff.
Is that anon who was redoing MKojiro's Land Rider still around? How's work, mate?
Who has good mutants and monsters types in the oldskool style suitable for gangs ands groups, akin to scavvy gangs in original necromunda? Talking proper 28mm size not 30mm/32mm+Failing that, some good generic human figures with enough exposed flesh parts (not covered up in armour and military gear of any era) to be easily convertible?Realised I've never done a classic mutant uprising/purge type of scenario, or added more than a couple of them to some chaos types even though mutants are so evocative of RT, so having a decent amount might make for a good project. Kicking myself for missing that era when GW sold the mutate-them-yourself conversion pack during the 13th Black Crusade. A pack of old flagellants and such, a bunch of gribbly arms and some spare bits from here and there and some green stuff and there'd be mutants for days.
>>97481811Mammoth miniatures has some mutants, charming to me but they are somewhat simple sculpts.Big Mr Tong, he who makes 3D sculpts of Rogue Trader stuff, has been doing the mutants from the RT pages in his usual style. Can get them from 3D Kingdoms
>>97480394it's run by boomers and people who likely aren't really professionals in this.i just saw it on his insta too, looks like it might be alternating every 15th which is weird.>>97473681i kinda see it with the pauldrons. thought they looked more like a shock troop but toned way the fuck down (some of my favourite minis of the range, shame they suck ass as a unit.)Donna's funnier in retrospect because she just keeps getting fucking cloned, and she's already a clone of another mini.
>>97482591Set 1 is probably more mutated
>>97482591>>97482736These look so funWould be great for RT or just chaos mutants in general, love them
>>97481811Mmmm, Shock Force beastmen. I just picked up a Vengequan tech-shaman last week. >old-school mutiesCrooked Dice has limited mutation sprues (a crab and tentacle arm, some heads), as well as War Boys, assorted beastmen, TMNT/Thundercats knockoffs and more generic muties. Reaper has multiple big conversion frames of monster parts, I've used them to make things like a vulture troll. See:https://www.reapermini.com/search/componentsThey've also got some more generic muties and beastmen that are convertible, but in general Bones are a pretty bad deal if you want more than a couple models. OTOH the conversion sprue packs are comparatively cheap and there are a shitload of parts in themHeresy has both some scraggly ghouls and maggotmen that might be fun to play with. No true grody Chaos muties otherwiseRamshackle has a bunch of completely random awesome shit, including mutants, it's just a pain to navigate the site right now. I do recommend poking around there, though, and he does bundle deals if you buy 10 models.>source bodiesWargames Atlantic zombies are cheap, tattered, and leprous. With a little putty work and some conversion bits they'll definitely pass as Scavvies. They also have some nude beastmen with goat-hooves and assorted animal heads.
>>97481811I'm a sucker for the Frostgrave Demons (Armoured Beastmen) mixed with Stargrave Scavengers, though I jus like modular plastics - they won't be to everyones tastes.. They recently did a cyborg/borg/servitor type set too.
Old Warhammer shit is so expensive, how do you guys do it? Is everyone here 40+, or does everyone just 3d print everything?
>>97486324Patience and being in the UK to go to second hand sales to get stuff cheap
Got some oldschool Eldar. Parts missing, will get converted.Anyone has any tips on straightening bent gun barrels like the one on Baherrot here?Are there any third party Eldar?
>>97486324Both. I've still got a lot of oldhammer shit from my teens and twenties, and what I don't have, I print.
>>97487108>straightening bent gun barrels Gentle bending and patience worked for me. Might be able to mess with a bit of heat to make it easier to bend but haven't done so. >best banshee design Nice.
>>97487108Carefully bend them back into place. For maximum control, use a small pair of pliers that are padded with a rag or something soft. Bend only as much as you have to; the lead free pewter doesn't tolerate much bending before it snaps.>you can get away with all kinds of shit with the old leaded pewter, which is why some of us oldfags missed it when it went away>>97487969>mess with a bit of heatWill do nothing other than make it hot, at least until you hit its melting point. He probably doesn't want to do that.
>>97489301>heating it until it melts >ISHYGDDTUncertain, aluminum heat bending works really well, becoming quite malleable without losing overall shape. Haven't tried it with pewter, wouldn't with a prized oldhammer mini but testing it with something else first, getting it to bellow melting point and seeing if its feasible is curious. Likely unnecessary but curious.I've always found bending with fingers slowly and patiently gave better control than with pliers but ymmv.
>>97489448>aluminum heat bending works really wellAnd getting high carbon steel real hot and then quenching it makes it harder, but that's not going to work on pewter either...because it's pewter, not steel or aluminum.I know that you're trying to be helpful anon, but making shit up seldom helps anyone. This isn't Reddit. Be better than that.
>>97490546>might >uncertain >test this before doing it >somehow making shit up okay anon
>>97490590>>97489448Tin does not get more elastic when you heat it. It just burns your fingers up until about 450 degrees, at which point it abruptly ceases to be a solid>t. person who has tested itAlso, have you never used tin solder before?
>>97451700why does todays gw painting style look so lifeless and sterile?
>>97491851Because it's afflicted with that curse of most large companies:Instead of the where they basically just let the artists do a thing and let the back-and-forth between them, the writers and miniatures sculptors create magic (and having Blanche doing a damn good job of bringing in talent and developing it), the soulless bastards in Marketing are in control and are trying to blandify the fuck out of things in order for the broadest possible appeal. art is purely there as advert, not to be art in itself.Which means making it safe, uninspired, having management jobsworthys trying to justify their own existence by sticking their oar in with pointless tweaks, which means creating without a particularly strong vision for any given piece and not deviating too far from a designated product.It's not the tools, it's not the artists; it's the environment and methodology they're producing under.
>>97491851>>97493923Also it make it look more achievable to normies which are now the target audienceInstead of passionate nerds who will sit for hours painting just a few models, they want people to buy 403294 marines and slap speedpaints on them so they are encouraged to buy more models and faster than if they'd taken their time sitting and painting them over weeks or months in comparison
>>97486324Recasts
>>97494988Any recommendations ?
How good is regenerate on a carnifex in 2e?
>>97497527Annoyingly good, but stupid expensive.
>>97497582currently making a 2e tyranids list, and not sure whats good outside of regeneration.
>>97497745Voltage Field and Sharpened Claws are very good. Depends on what you're going against really, that's what the biomorphs are for, for adapting.
>>974863243d Printing. I can't afford that shit otherwise.
Working on a RT style deodorant tank. It's an fdm print so the layer lines are a little rough but oh well.
>>97497860Have you considered only printing the turret and extras.. and actually, you know, using a deodorant or mouse or food bottle with a cool shape as the base instead? Hell, the Havoc launcher is just some basic plastic pipe. Get a Krazy Straw, saw it into pieces, glue up, put a pin through the center, then print a mount. Bam, 5-minute job. Print cool thrusters to go with the twist knob instead of just giving it a hollow ass and printing at a 45. Print the cool eye and put it under a spoon with a notch in it. The varied textures will make the whole thing look a lot less like you whittled it out of balsa and rolled it through a bag of rocks and miscasts.
>>97497860I dig it lad
>>97497952This was really more done to get a feel for printing vehicles on my printer and work on dialing the settings for it in.
>>97497860Nice
>>97495223If you're comfortable leaving a contact address I can point you in the right direction
>>97498230Fuck it, why not.
>>97498230>>97498633km4246@gmail.com>mailto field is not visible anymore
/Grog/, I need the benefits of your wisdom. I'm reading through the Freebooterz: Space Ork Army Lists splat for Rogue Trader, and just to confirm, you can't have an exclusively Freebooter Orkz army in this edition, correct? You can take Freebooter Mobs in your armies, but you have to use the six Ork Clan army lists seen in Ere We Go! and Freeboterz?Or did GW create an official army list for a full Freebooterz army at some point?
Just trying to clear something up; in Rogue Trader, you HAD to base your ork army on one of the six clans, correct? The 3rd edition Codex: Orks replaced this with a single generic ork army, but optional Clan-based ork army lists returned in... I wanna say White Dwarf?
>>97498912>>97499067For RT; yes Freebooters are an attachment to a regular ork army rather than a standalone force, as the Freebooter moniker is there to cover a whole array of orky units operating outside the clan structure.Follow the rules on page 128 of Ere We Go for choosing an Ork warband otherwise. You can have more than one clan represented, but you need a main one for your warboss, his nobs and his big mob first.
Did GW ever make any wolf headed beastmen? I want a wulfen/ulfwerenar for a Mordheim Norse warband, but Beorg (the go-to choice) is actually a werebear, not a werewolf.
>>97499387I see. Did anyone ever homebrew mechanics for taking an all-Freebooter army in RT? With the diverse array of Freebooter Mobz, it seems like it'd be a really crazy-fun idea.
>>97500206khorne beastman
>>97500314Homebrew and workshop ideas, the path of hobby godsNothing's stopping you from making them new pirate themed and named units if you wanted and having a whole mini-army/codex themed around and just for them
>>97500314So, after looking over the six Rogue Trader era Ork Clan army lists... what do folks think of this as a rough draft of a Freebooterz Horde army list? For this version, I'm going with more of a "pure" Freebooterz army; Ork-Genestealer Hybrids and Chaos Orks seem more like they'd be either minor elements of a true Ork army, or else the cornerstones of their own armies, and that's a topic to tackle later.1 Freebooter Warboss1+ Flash Gitz (these partially replace the Warboss' Retinue)1 Freebooter Piratez Big Mob0+ Freebooter Pirates0+ Wild Ork Outlaws0+ Outcast Oddboyz0+ Renegade Mekboyz0+ Renegade Runtmasters0+ Bad Docs0+ Gretchin Bandits0+ Renegade Speed Freeks0+ Bad Ork Bikeboyz0-4 Freebooter Minderz0-4 Dreadmobs0-4 Human Mercenary Bands0-3 Khorne's Stormboyz0-3 Outcast Retinues0-3 Warpheadz & Madboyz0-2 Chaos Renegade Orkz Warbands0-2 Ork Mutant Mobz0-1 Possessed Warphead0-1 Ork-Genestealer BroodsIn a Clan Ork army, you basically have no limit on the number of Freebooter Mobz you can take, so long as you have your Clan Warboss, Retinue and Big Mob. But, obviously, in an all-Freebooterz army, that's going to change just out of some semblance of balance. I picked numbers here on pure gut feeling as to what might be more common than the other, and I'm totally open to other opinions on how to make a proper Freebooterz Crew.
not sure how triggering this is going to be, but my group has been use AI to recreate 80s minis from ebay photographs.
is there a big difference between the historic paint colors and what modern paint can accomplish? like if you're doing blood angels from 2e, is there a huge difference between the modern mephiston red and the original blood red armour? do you guys just use modern colors and call it a day?
>>97502117>my group has been use AI to recreate 80s minis from ebay photographs.How is that even possible?
>>97497780Is anything else good? i can post my WIP listalso 1500, or 2000 points?
>>97498078so the green one is clearly an Imperial hover tank, and the bottom one I assume is a Tyranid one, what's the yellow and red one supposed to be?
>>97502948It looks like a Mk iii AXE/LYNX variant design
>>97502117>>97502738Leave. You aren't welcome.
>>97498912>>97499387There IS a way to have an army made up entirely of Freebooterz... but it will be REALLY lame.You need the "Nurgle Chaos Renegades" list out of 'Realm of Chaos: The lost and the damned"... then only use the "Ork Freebooterz" unit option.Crap? Yes. Technically an army entirely made out of Freebooterz? Yup!
>>97502117Hey me too! If you're interested in comparing notes so to speak hit me up. yarharguardsman@tutamail.comFuck anyone getting mad about this. I can't afford to chase OOP minis at secondary market prices.
>>97502117Ahh shit, I gave you the wrong email. That one is all fucky and bounces stuff all the time. Try this one if you wanna talk shop.yarharguardsman@proton.me
>>97502747Make it 1500. Yeah sure, post it.
>>97502117I saw that AI models are getting better at generating meshes based on photos, like around as accurate as 3d photoscans, but didn't look into it much moresounds pretty neat to me
>>97506644It’s a hell of a lot faster than photogrammetry, and for the time and effort involved, the ROI on your time is much better. The gaps in information that the AI has to fill in aren’t that bad especially when you’re working from older sculpts from the ’80s. Those little guys had sovl, but…the sculptors sucked
>>97491851>why is it bland and sterile>>97493923>it's the marketers>the artists aren't allowed to art>broadest possible appeal>safe>>97494763>it's for normies, the target audience>it's not for nerdsI think GW's paintwork is fine. Exceptional even. Unless I'm missing something that happened in the last year.It's not particularly Fun or '90s or '80s but it's actually better than a lot of youtubers who just paint solo models.Now the sculpts? GW having learned what skintones are?Um...What if you were to ask me what's safe, marketable, broadest possible appeal, and bland; inoffensive?My answer:>"What sells better, heroic scale or realistic scale?"and>"So. Chaos. We have... a lot... of flayed skin. And Nurgle is um. Grotesque. Could we metaphorically round off the edges so we don't ever get another player who paints with literal shit or grows fungus on his minis? And Dark Eldar? Ow the edge! Literally, their minis hurt. Cancel their line, it's weird, icky and rapey."and>"What the fuck have you done? Get me the sales charts on the Votann line. I HAVE to know if I'm an alien because either they're not selling or this planet turned fucking queer in the 2010s and I'm the only person on it who didn't get the software update, aka I'm the queer."If I put it another way, there's a "John Blanche" working at GW right now. He's making post-modernist sculpts, whatever the art style is for a rejection of beauty. He wants to be Political. And these are the most detailed sculpts GW has had. Ever. He's put more hours into it than John ever did. He loves it, else he'd quit. If he was shown a Blanche original, he'd spit at it and call it fascist, not because it is but because that's how he's been taught to react to what came before. Boxnaut? Angry Marine helmet vent? Fuck Fun. Have Ugly.If you ever look into creative companies, the execs *may* be woke but they can't actually decide the art, merely direct it. The art is always a reflection of the worker.
>>97507419I've been using meshy ai for the process. It's new version 6 is pretty handy but it still spits out nonsense sometimes. What program are you using?
>>97507467I cannot overemphasise how I am a "normie".>hear about hobby at skool, "I could buy NINE landraiders!", "Yeah well I could buy TEN landraiders!", never buy a mini>actual entrance into 40K is DoW>be a literal secondary who buys the books (2000s era, they're fun, latest books... um... ew)>Alfabusa/1d4/2d6 pipeline>"This year is the year I start collecting and painting">get cheap non-GW minis so I can fuck it up and not feel bad>go to GW, Guard line refreshed, revolted, same as what Disney did to Stormtroopers, literal gender swap torch passing for one hero, THE guard unit, the commissar, is the worst sculpt they've ever had, ever>look at marines>what. The. Fuck. ("It's okay, firstborn aren't going away! Wink wink!" era)>buy some minis anyway>get frustrated>want to quit>find out about 2e and rogue trader>colour>excitedment>FUN>every character is white or a literal stereotype, almost every character is male and if not, BANSHEE TITSWow, it's a toy, I want this toy, I want to play with this toy.The codexes look better. The fluff immerses me. I don't care about it being unbalanced. I'm not scrutinising every name, every pronoun, every political concept. I'm not saying "Of course the sergeant was given the female head". I'm not criticising a set with female heads for having no female bodies "They're cheaping out, typical", nor am I complaining when they do have female bodies "Great, it's non-optional, I have to run girls". All the rent frees. Gone.When GW rereleases an old sculpt I go "GIMME", spray and paint. I am a consoomer. I'm not a nerd. I'm not good at the hobby. But apparently nothing new is for me, the normie. Blogpost over, you're all gobbos.
>>97507590The last time I saw GW minis and thought they were great was early Warhammer Underworlds. You had mini-factions of 3-9 models, self-contained, relatively inexpensive, true they were monopose and no options but if you did't care about gaming and just wanted to dip your toes into painting a particular faction, they were awesome. I bought a bunch.
>>97507419>Those little guys had sovl, but…the sculptors suckedWhat are you even doing in this thread if you feel this way? Go away.
>>97507419>Those little guys had sovl, but…the sculptors sucked>go to foundry>go to impact>go to the perries>check the scuplts, all fucking fine>go to fucking alternative armies to check out laserburn, a 50 year old 15mm line by byran, totally fucking fine.The people who made a lot of the scuplts either went on to warzone, their own companies or stayed.take Legions of Steel by contrast, it looks rough.It's newer than the other ranges and it's direct same year competition was voids, warzone and vor, let alone 40k.
>>97507570https://3d.hunyuan.tencent.com lets you upload 8 reference photos, more than enough to capture the sculpts from that era. free 20 files a day.
>>97508094>tencent
>>97508094Nice! I'll have to give it a try. Meshy just updated their multi photo effort to include their newest model. Only four reference photos total though.
>>97507590I'm similar but a little earlier. Got hooked in reading the imperial guard omnibus and wanting models but couldnt afford then, then DoW 1 with winter assault and my first job. Got hooked in more and more until they started femininizing the guard and now I'm dropping the whole thing.
>>97509060You might want to check out the Wargames Atlantic Death Fields stuff. Between the plastic boxes and the 3D prints you can make not-GW Guard armies with ease.
I'll tell you one thing, Oldhammer is about doing.If you're going to talk about AI (yuck) and sitting on a pile of .stls and tangential shit like that, you could at least fucking print one, paint it and post it, instead of navel gazing about it.
>>97507642>Warhammer UnderworldsYeah, and now they bundled them in 4-teams-a-box deals, so it's harder to grab just the ones you'd like.>>97509362I only have an FDM printer sadly. Or luckily, because my pile of shame would definitely triple in size with all the cool stuff out there. I saw someone made two sets of the Ventolin Pirate.
Had a lot of fun yesterday during the first session of my group’s 3e campaign. Matchups:Chaos Undivided vs TauKhorne Daemons vs Inquisition/GuardIron Warriors vs GuardDeath Guard vs Seer Council EldarBlack Legion vs Grey KnightsWe had a lot of newbies playing and I’m glad to say they all had a blast.
>>97509665You can print minis just fine on an FDM, you just gotta get the settings dialed in right. I use a Bamboo A1 Mini and it works great.
>>97513625I know, I have like 70-80 FDM printed minis, but there are still a loss of detail and noticeable issues which can make painting a pain in the ass for me.For just gaming they are fine.
Here's the workflowsources:http://solegends.comhttps://www.miniatures-workshop.comhttps://www.dndlead.comhttps://www.ebay.com
>>97500206There was one from 3rd. Edition warhammer fantasy battles.Wore what looked like a bra so it might have been female with smallish tits.
>>97516123Now show us his back.
>>97516123Show us his back yea
>>97516123Maybe you should ask AI to paint your models too
>>97518069We already had people in these threads doing that. Don't encourage them further/more of them.
Not bad
>>97516123I can't seem to get https://3d.hunyuan.tencent.com to let me use it without logging in.
>>97516123I struggle to find pictures of most old minis from multiple angles. Any tips?
>hi grog>I love old minis>because I [vomits up AI with broken morningstar spikes]I wish AI was bannable, indians ruin everythingIt's like unpainted tau armies and 3D printed waifus all over again
>>97451700Anyone got 3D scans of the third ed carnifex? The pretty screamer killer metal one, I got one in bits that I got off ebay years ago, but it's missing head and legs because ebay mix up, wanna fix it up to be done with some 3d printed replacements but don't have scanner on hand myself.
>>97518738Just take some pics of the original, dumbo
>>97519976Screamer killer was 2ed.
>>97521767Technically 1st. Everyone forgets that though because it was both iconic and a complete and utter cunt to fight (when tooled up a little bit) in 2nd.Honestly I think I am still traumatised by having to deal with the bastards from back then, having to hope they didn't save vs. multimelta shots so I could hopefully roll good with the 2D12 wounds and melt them before getting bio-plasma'd or just torn apart.
>>97522088My mistake, I started in 2ed and it fit the style and technical level so well I missed it could've well been late-RT era.
>>97521349I don't have the originals or I would.
I got 20 rogue trader era marines (rtb01 I think) in a lot that I mostly bought for fantasy battle shit. 13 have both arms and appropriate weapons, 7 are missing some combo of arms or weapons. How new of marine kit would work in terms of scale? Thinking of making a diorama with them and some 2e orks I picked up couple years ago.
I want to try my hand at figuring out a 3e Genestealers Clan & Cult army, using the 1e/2e lore of Genestealers being both a Tyranid slave-race and yet also capable of being subverted to Chaos, hopefully without making it as mechanically pathetic as Citadel Journal's 3e Genestealer Cult army. Is this the right thread to discuss such a project?
>>975237492nd edition marines will work just fine. 3rd edition-7th edition marines are gonna be a tiny bit big but possibly workable. 8th+ are right out, including the Horus Heresy marine arms as the scale is just too big. Though not mine, the RTB-01 here is modified with 2nd edition plastic marine parts, namely the legs and the lower half of the left arm+power sword.It's quite a bit easier to get hold of the second edition marine bits. 3d print replacements can also be had. And if really desperate, use oyumaru and clone yourself some.
why is warcolours selling 90's warhammer plastic orcs? https://www.warcolours.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_85&product_id=270
>>97451700What is the guy in the OP supposed to be, anyway? A chaos warrior?
>>97526362They just sell secondhand stuff on the side for a bit of extra cash, they've also got a load of 4E/5E metal Dark Elf minis up
>>97526443Harry the Hammer
>>97526676Neat, thank you
>>97526362€3 for a plastic goblin from the starter set is stupid
/grog/? This might be a bit too modern in the lore, but... there's been a fan-drawn image on 1d6chan (and previously 1d4chan) of a Slaanesh Defiler with the tagline that back in the days, you used to be able to dedicate Defilers to Slaanesh and mount Blastmasters & Sonic Blasters on them. But was this ever actually a thing?I was just flicking through the "3.5" Chaos codex, and in the Book of Slaanesh section, there's no mention of Defilers being able to be Dedicated to Slaanesh with a Warp Amp, and the Emperor's Children Army rules don't mention mechanics for Slaaneshi Defilers either. Was this maybe something in the original Index Astartes article on the Emperor's Children? Or some other White Dwarf article? Heck, maybe it was something added in the next edition's Chaos Codex, which I think was 4e?
