You ever feel that some players have a weird obsession with - basically - upending a setting's status quo and otherwise making 'big changes'? I'm not sure I'm phrasing it correctly, but let me give it an example. The party's Warlock really, really resents being under a pact and really resents the Gods. He feels that they're all tyrants and shouldn't be worshipped.As the party's Cleric, and a devout Cleric, I think I annoy the shit out of him just by actually LIKING the Gods and the current system. Which can't be changed anyway, because it's fundamental to how the game is played. It's like they're projecting some kind of iconoclastic tendencies onto the campaign world, even when it's explicitly not Christian morality. I'm playing to have adventures in the setting, not change it drastically.
That just sounds like two players who have different motivations and overall goals not clicking together in the same group. Yeah, some players do go a bit overboard in trying to make a huge impact on the game's setting for its own sake. But it might not be to steal the spotlight or ruin someone else's fun. It might be just how they wanted to have fun for that campaign, by doing something that would feel meaningful and impressive. Like someone deciding their end goal should be to become a noble, or someone deciding their character wants to fight a dragon before the campaign is over.Still, if you're getting cheesed by this Warlock on a personal level, just talk to him. An atheist Warlock in and of itself doesn't mean jack, he could just be roleplaying the character's general resentment over his position. If the character was actively desecrating temples and trying to pick fights with your Cleric, that's a different story. But just being a seething mutterer about how he hates the gods isn't exactly "upending the setting's status quo" in and of itself.
>>97454656I mean, I don't especially care about the Warlock. I'm just curious why he's on my ass like this, when being devout is part of being a Cleric. It's not like I'm proselytizing or whatever, I just accept and favor the current pantheon and have no reason to oppose them.
>>97454623Is this in-character irritation, or out-of-character irritation on the warlock's part? In-character irritation is perfectly reasonable, a point of character friction to make the campaign interesting. Out-of-character irritation is him having problems with you.
>>97454688>Out-of-character irritation is him having problems with you.It's totally out-of-character, he was getting pissy when we got a quest from the church because he didn't want to help a god. It was a perfectly benevolent church too. There's just no reason for this antagonism.
>>97454666Again, talking to him to determine if he's just playing out a character trait or if he's using the game as an excuse to act like an ass to you is your best next step here. It's hard to guess which it is based on the lack of details, after all.
>>97454701Congrats, assuming you aren't lying and have a clear grasp on the situation, you have a bonafide antitheist agitator in your group. Don't expect him to get better about any of this. Any attempt to change his mind will be harder and longer than the out-of-character effort to usurp the gods. Not saying you should just go along with it, but avoid out and out picking a fight.
>>97454774I don't use Reddit.
>>97454784Everyone on 4chan uses Reddit. It's why we're all so bitter about it.
>>97454623Are you just obsessed with Clerics, or what? How many threads have you made just to talk about Clerics?
>>97454623>You ever feel that some players have a weird obsession with - basically - upending a setting's status quo and otherwise making 'big changes'?Didn't half the classes in the older dnds end up raising a fortress/megachurch/kingdom? Upending a setting's status quo is ingrained into the hobby's DNA>The party's Warlock really, really resents being under a pact and really resents the Gods. He feels that they're all tyrants and shouldn't be worshipped.Sounds like your Warlock player knows how to play Warlocks. Everyone and their mom have heard about how the term Warlock comes from old english meaning "pact breaker", being insatisfied with how you're some entitie's bitch for a bit of power is pretty much the class description.>As the party's Cleric, and a devout Cleric, I think I annoy the shit out of him just by actually LIKING the Gods and the current system. Which can't be changed anyway, because it's fundamental to how the game is played.Sounds like what I'd expect from a Warlock closely interacting with a Cleric.It's like they're projecting some kind of iconoclastic tendencies onto the campaign world, even when it's explicitly not Christian morality.Why would non-christian morality preclude rebellion against it? Other civilizations have had wars and strife in our history.>I'm playing to have adventures in the setting, not change it drastically.Unless you plan to die before level 10, having advantures IS drastically changing the setting. If you kill a 15th level wizard you just offed one of the world's largest powers in most settings.>>97454666Characters don't need to like other characters, or agree with their ethos.>>97454701Maybe he's evil-aligned IRL.
>>97455131>Unless you plan to die before level 10, having advantures IS drastically changing the setting. If you kill a 15th level wizard you just offed one of the world's largest powers in most settings.I don't think I was clear.If I kill a big demon, a wizard or something, the state of things doesn't really change. I just become the new power, that's all. Something like "Let's overthrow the Gods!" or "Let's fundamentally alter the nature of magic" changes the setting on a level that it can't accomodate.So obviously I'm not a fan of the latter.
>>97454623Games?
>>97455291But WHY are you not a fan? Changing-things-but-not-changing-things doesn't make sense as a concept.
>>97455307Think of it this way. In 40K, a system can be wiped out, entire chapters of Space Marines can die, billions can be eaten by the Tyranids, but the integrity of the setting remains intact. The Emperor isn't going to die (or be healed), the Chaos Gods are going to be fundamentally unchanged, and Abaddon will keep doing his thing in the Eye of Terror.So it's about an adventure in the setting, rather than "Yeah let's radically alter it."
>>97455291>I just become the new power, that's all.And unless you're planning on acting exactly like the old power did you're enacting change.>So obviously I'm not a fan of the latter.I got that, but it doesn't justify you being surprised enough to make a thread about people liking it, especially in a game where murderhoboing your way into changing the world is so much more feasible than IRL.>changes the setting on a level that it can't accomodate.Anything can be accomodated if your GM deems it possible. I think you want a kind of permanence that's incompatible, not only with history, but with the expectations that bring a lot of people to the hobby.>>97455320Cleric and Warlock relate to DnD though, where a guy named Vacna became one of the fucking "gods" you so desperately want to worship from distance without touching. Shit, if we keep to Warhammer, didn't Sigmar start as a human?I'm not saying you're wrong in liking things the way you do, but your surprised at differing tastes is weird.
>>97455349To be honest, I mainly dislike the Warlock for trying to get us off-track and annoying me. I'm perfectly happy to play this completely conventionally, and there's this guy who is trying to take us off on a weird tangent. I've already resolved to stop healing him whenever possible.
>>97455378If that's the case then don't pose the thread as questioning anyone who generically has his worldview IC, it's kinda misleading. If the player's antics keep you from the part you like about the game then sure, not engaging is the quickest way to end it and get back on track, but he can likewise pose himself against parts he doesn't like (like helping gods, even the good ones). Without more specific info I can't give much more input than this, I just find it weird if it keeps happening repeatedly, as a GM I would make whatever bullshit reasons to keep the game moving if a player interrupted too much because of ideology (unless it played in an interesting way into the game's plot).If he's consistent with his hatred of outer entities then not healing him is a good call, though as a GM I'd pay attention to it if you were breaking your god's ideals by doing it.Maybe give me further context, storytime even, as of now I can't say he's wrong and you're right.
"Gods never helped me much." - My rogue.
>>97454623Contrarian losers who feel powerless in their own lives exercise their frustration via the "safety" of a game, trusting in the forbearance of their fellow players for their masturbatory behavior.
