What would GW have done with Fantasy if End Times never happened?
>>97460512Nobody can convince me that Sigmarines wouldn't have found their way in
that’s a world where gw goes bankrupt.
>>97460512The same thing they were already doing with it. Nothing.
>>97460512easy, keep the old established lore, change the game. Make the game faster and play like aos. That way you have an awesome lore and a faster tabletop game. After that approach owlcat or larian and tell them to make crpg games or whatever good companies are out there to promote your setting. But shareholders dont care about these, they want money so gw failed miserably
>>97460512Would have done what they did to 40k, so essentially its aos but its still on the old world.
Axing WHF was actually a blessing in disguise. It allowed the community to take WHF back and for things like 6th edition, WAP, etc to flourish. Not to mention it encouraged other manufacturers to up their game and fill the miniatures void that was left. If it had continued, shit like the disgusting copyrighted names of AoS and bulldyke Sigmarines would've been shoehorned into WHF one way or another. Even though TOW is nu-GW slop, at least the IP had largely been spared from the worst of GW's excesses and old edition communities are still active, far more than in 40k.
>>97460871This. End thread
>>97460512Age of Sigmar could have been a specialist game set in the time of Sigmar early on in the Empire's history, keeping the same structure as AoS has now for the skirmish feel to it.>We could have had tribes not yet subjugated by Sigmar and his people, some of them who might have already turned to chaos or turned to chaos in desperation due to Sigmar.>Undead hosts of Nagash looking for his trinkets in the Old World>Sigmars tribe and his allies>Orcs and Beastmen are self explanitory>Proto-Bretonnians>Dwarf enclaves leaving their ravaged mountain holds in search of new homes
>>97460512This is such a weird question because it assumes that the end times happened without GW's involvement.A better counterfactual would be "what could GW have done to make Fantasy more popular/profitable."
>>97462442this is the answer
>>97460512-introduce stormcast as holy warriors of order to be baby's first faction-scrap rank&flank, round bases-skirmish ruleset, basically no different than aos 1e probably-same weird shit like no points for a while-introduce a similar status quo breaking event like roboute's return to change the setting from a (more or less) static backdrop to a moving "narrative"(Von carsteins take control of the empire, ulthuan sinks, sigmar dies but manages to redeem archaon and makes him his successor, wild shit like thatI don't think people realize how dire things were for gw around 2014, and fantasy especially was circling the drain for a while. They would've had to make some drastic changes regardless.
>>97462442>awesome lore>warhammer>awesome lore
>>97463319While true that GW was in a really bad spot in 2014, where people were not buying into 40k or Fantasy, and the people that were already in had multiple armies and were not planning to start any more. Most of your ideas are basically just what they actually did, and Age of Sigmar almost killed GW's non-science fiction lineup all together. So pushing in that direction is a bad idea.
>>97463855>Age of Sigmar almost killed GW's non-science fiction lineup all togetherwe're just making shit up now
>>97463855To be clear what I was listimg wasn't what I would have done, just what I think gw *would* have done it they didn't go as far as they did in our world with aos.Early aos was certainly a rushjob, but most of the more nonsensical decisions can be explained through the lens of gw trying to alleviate the problems of late fantasy, and as usual going way overboard in doing so. No points costs are a good example, 7th and especially 8th edition notoriously inflated army sizes making it extremely unappealing for new players trying to get their foot in the door, which is a big problem if your existing playerbase doesn't buy the new minis. Early aos tried the opposite approach, "just play with whatever you want :)", obviously going way too far. There's a reason aos players consider the first general's handbook as aos' "real" start.Also worth mentioning that aos was outselling fantasy's later years already by 2016.
>>97460512>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>orcs do something>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>vampires or dark elves or some shit I dunno>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>skaven>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost
>>97464077
>>97462519See, THAT I would play.Shit, expand the lore surrounding the Reman Empire based out of Tilea, so you have a "Civilized" human faction (that's also partly corrupted by Chaos).If the timeline doesn't overlap, fuck it, just make it overlap.
>>97463902Fantasy's later years were a disaster caused entirely by Games Workshop's incompetence. In a just world, the crap they pulled during 7th would have resulted in the company going bankrupt. I'm not joking, to this day they have never fucked up as bad as they did during 7th. 8th had its problems, but the edition that really killed Fantasy, or at least set its murder in motion, was 7th. If AoS managed to sell more than Fantasy did while it was actively being mismanaged & murdered, good. It means AoS was better than the soulless, drained corpse of what was once Fantasy. It does not mean that AoS is better than Fantasy. There was a time when Fantasy was just as popular as 40k, you know. A brief time, sure, but it happened, and then GW pissed it all away.
>>97460512I remember slightly before Endtimes one guy on a forum I frequented predicted that GW would have Chaos almost won and run over the Old World, but then from the sea legions of armor clad warriors of order would march out and turn the tide. Chapters of these landmarines would deploy via magic drop pods, they woiud wear magical armor and they would fight in chapters.
>>97463566yes cucklet, warhammer fantasy has the best lore. Take you DEI shit elsewhere
>>97464362I dont know if I should feel sorry for you. I'd have to feel bad for retards in general though.
>>97460512They were planning Stormcasts already.This explains the weird preeminence of Balthasar Gelt getting the power of raising the dead and being the Incarnate of Metal after a Dwarf.In other words, he was in the perfect position to start summoning the spirits of dead heroes into metal armors of dwarven manufacture with a golden mask.If you read the End Times you can tell they would have done all that even without the Incarnates losing.Karl Franz wins at Middenheim, Chaos is repelled, and the world of Warhammer stays in place, BUT it is a "post-apocalypse" and it is basically Age of Sigmar but on the old map and with Sigmar on the throne instead of Karl Franz, so they can sell a big Sigmar model and make the Stormcast of the Empire of Man.
>>97466652Lore wise this is plausible, but gameplay wise they always wanted to move fantasy to round bases and away from rank + flank. It would have still played like AoS.
>>97466660I believe it would have looked and played exactly like Age of Sigmar, even with the same starter box and round bases, the only difference being "this is the old planet remade" instead of "this is a new galaxy of elemental planes".There are other elements that point to this, like the weird "double events":1) the world of Age of Sigmar is entirely conquered by Chaos already when the story begins (why?)... so we have the Old World, then a Chaos victory, then the Age of Myth, then a second Chaos victory, then Age of Sigmar begins2) the Seraphon/Lizardmen are alive and they leave the planet on spaceships in Warhammer Fantasy. Then in Age of Sigmar they are all dead and then they're all alive again.All of this makes more sense if you just imagine that Sigmar and his Stormcasts come back to the Old World for a reconquista from Chaos and the Lizardmen need a justification for being away during the whole time that Archaon wins.
>>97464274Didn't Solkan the Avenger himself literally curbstomped Khorne when he attempted to fuck with the Reman empire?
>>97464362>>97462442>ESL>belligerent>TWW secondary>brownBINGO WE GOT A BINGO
>>97460871lol, lmaoSiggypiggies are so delusional
>>97460512First thing's first, they would have actually released the 3rd Blackfire Pass Battle book, instead of canning it.They might have done more with the Storm of Magic stuff too.
>>97466699>copying space marines right down to the ultramarine poster boy colors Kek
>>97462540This. My answer to this thread is "They would have made the End Times happen".
>>97464077>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>orks do something>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>necrons or dark (a)eldar(i) or some shit I dunno>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost>tyranids>chaos invades but is driven back at great cost
>>97466700Yeah, but they eventually fell to corruption and internal politicking, at least by my reading, some of which was probably Chaos influenced.Putting a spotlight on the "Gods of Order" like Solkan and Not*Arianka would be cool too, just as an intentional throwback.
>>97466700>>97468370There never was an official reason for why and how the Reman Empire fell, just theories, actually the lore about it was intentionally kept very limited. Chaos cults were known to be very active and a major thorn in the side of the Reman empire, displacing some ancient animist gods of the countryside and completely destroying logistics, and at one point even taking over the capital itself (before being kickbanned by Solkan). The Remans were cordial to Sigmar, but unable to ever mantain proper diplomatic channels and cooperate with his empire due to all the Chaos, Skaven, and Greenskin fuckery going on in Tilea. The main reason they were capable to last "a thousands years" was that Solkan was very active (and very angry) in that period, so he often took matters in his own hands and personally obliterated whatever bad guy faction was getting too uppity. So, yeah, there would definitely need to be a Reman Legions faction, as well as Reman-Era chaos cultists (who would probably make extensive use of Beastmen, given that their power base was in the countryside).
>>97464388What's better?
>>97460512Sorry, but we already had our "end times".
>>97463566you're able to point at settings with better lore, right? you're not just making empty points, right?
>>97469094actually more lame than the End Times.Morathi's invasion of Lustria and Settra's invasion of the Badlands are beyond moronic
>>97469111NTA but if you really cant name a couple for yourself then you really need to go out of your way to explore other mediums. I know zoomers are incapable of reading but surely tiktok still has reels about something other than warhammer right?
>>97466652While still stupid, that would be leagues better scenario than AoS' D&Desque abstract wobbly multiverse of different planes of existence shit
>>97469194Well you aren't talking about Warmahordes, or Trench Crusade, which leaves Battletech and whatever else nobody has heard of.And Battletech lore scratches a different itch; it's for people who enjoy the history of military procurement fuckups mostly.
>>97460512Basically what we have now. All the Shareholders care about is when the next edition of 40k is going to drop. Fantasy was never going to get the resources so it just retreats to being a placeholder to stop competitors moving in on the Rank and Flank market.
>>97469194why do you expect me to make a point that retard should've made? I do know other settings>tiktokcall me nigger, call me faggot, even call me nogames, don't you fucking dare suggest I use this piece of shit chinese spyware
>>97469208Why are the realms so hard to understand for people? Seems like it's basically just 8 flat themed planets to me.
>>97466652>They were planning Stormcasts already.oof, that would've really sucked.Makes sense that they'd wanna try to bring in space marines into their less popular setting though.Maybe Age of Sigmar was a blessing. Killing fantasy before it got ruined.
>>97466652>>97469825I don't know about that, there's a white dwarf article explaining some of the early days of aos that seems to imply they were designed pretty last minute.
>>97469755>Seems like it's basically just 8 flat themed planets to me.Even that's too much for some intellects. Though most probably just heard "realms" and then assumed a DnD style pile of crap, never looking into it for long enough to notice that it isn't. And as always we're sure to have a few "both" too.
>>97469851>>97469755It's just plain retarded as a concept, the more you look into it the more stupid it seems.
>>97460512Why do so many people prefer fantasy over AOS?
>>97470115because the lore is awesome
>>97469755It's not about being hard to understand, it's about being lame and weightless. The narrative feels much more significant when factions fight for actual lands, countries, villages, passes, roads etc. which have specific, set and sensible geographic locations and features that have their place on the worldmap, as opposed to fighting over some ephemeral, endless and abstract realms And besides that, the concept is just way too high fantasy for my tastes
>>97460512Discontinued fantasy it entirely.
>>97470322This. They should have explored necromunda entirely instead of being this weird side project that had people half ass it.
>>97469992But it's just norse mythology mixed with the winds of magic, it's not really anything extraordinary is it?>>97470309I personally also prefer a normal single world, but it is undeniable that lots of people don't really grasp what the realms are, making it arguably more complex than they really are, like this guy >>97469208Lots of people seem to think it's kind of like a multiverse, or planes of reality type of stuff, when again it's just 8 flat "planets" with specific themes. For all intents and purposes it's just a solar system with magic void instead of normal void. It seems a very common misconception and I wonder where it comes from. A fuck up by gw's marketing? Idk.
>>97470336Maybe you're too stupid to understand why it sucks?
>>97470403riveting response
>>97470403That's not even what I'm questioning you absolute retard. I don't know what year they kicked your bum ass out of school but it was clearly before you got to reading comprehension.
>>97470115I like carefully wheeling rectangles of models around the battlefield
>>97470403I was thinking the same thing about him.
>>97470403Sigsissies...Our aswer?
>>97469111Here's one, it's less juvenile too.
>>97470748kek
Turn The Old World into a dystopian, darker setting where Chaos rules the Empire and turn up the grimdarkness to the absolute limit. Pic related. Just use one of the endings from The Enemy Within.
>>97470115It’s hard to explain if you don’t know a little bit about each. In this case, I recommend you listen to any AoS loretuber and you’ll see within a video or two how retarded and simultaneously sterile and schizophrenic it is.
>>97460512WHFB silently becomes abandonware instead of having an official send off.
>>97470115Brownoid wirtue signaling
>>97470115AoS is milquetoast. It reeks of kitchen sink design-by-committee settings like Forgotten Realms/MTG. Fantasy has it's own identity.
>>97462442this
>>97460527Balthazar Gelt (Metal Magic, Golden Mask) secretly studying Necromancy (Soul Magic, Returning the dead) was such an easy-in to the Stormcast 'process' in any continuation of WFB I'm surprised they didn't actually use is as the lore background in AoS.
>>97470115aos tries to appeal to 40k tards who couldnt give less of a shit about medieval combat. fantasy is a proper rank and flank game.
>>97472694>Fantasy has it's own identity.You mean it has leftover DnD models identity?
>>97468211The chart is missing the stormcast squatting and aos4 launch.
>>97460512Made it post-apocalyptic.Seriously, it's a matter of public record that what GW had *intended* for the Storm of Chaos in 6e was that Archaon would fuck the world up so hard that the Chaos Wastes would expand southwards, swallowing up Kislev and only stopping outside of... I can't remember if it was supposed to be Middenheim or Altdorf. Anyway, the point is, Chaos was supposed to openly tear shit up and push the world visibly closer to doomsday, before the fans rallied to kick Chaos ass and avert the narrative. So if Storm of Chaos had gone off as planned, the setting would have been almost as fucked up as it was by the End Times.
>>97475498What's that got to do with the price of cheese?
