I'm planning to run a space opera TTRPG game with my friends in self-made setting and I decided to go with Traveller, as I found it to be quite what I'm looking for in a game. However, I'm confused as to which edition to pick, they seem to be pretty much similar with a few changes here and there but I'm still not sure which one is right for me. So far I'm stuck between>Classic Traveller>Mongoose 1e/Cepheus Engine>Mongoose 2eI plan to make my own alien species and to allow robot/android characters in it. Also, as I mentioned before, I'm making my own settting and avoiding Third Imperium, just because I want to create something myself. With that in mind, which one is better suited for a game like that?
I don't think there's an actual answer to this because they're all pretty similar and easy to port between. I use cepheus just because. are you gonna go full autismo and generate the whole setting on the front end?
>>97507772So far I'm thinking of only doing a subsector and moving on from there.
>>97507772Why did you pick Cepheus over Mongoose 2e?
damn, traveller really is dead huh
>>97507690The mong1e physical book is still pretty easy to get, cheaper than mong2e, and more complete than mong2e. I don't think there are any changes between the two that are anything more than a lateral move, mechanically speaking.
>>97508357Oh also I like 1e art better than 2e, the 2e graphic design is pretty shit imo.>>97508207
>>97507690Those are all similar enough that it should hardly matter. If you aren't bothered with the setting I'd just use Cepheus Engine given that it's free. Once you're familiar with it then pick through other versions for rule variants.
Getting Started with Traveller https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/91005556/#91008597
>>97507690Mongoose 1E is hour best bet as Cepheus is a spin off and 2E is the sequel. You have also discovered the brilliance of Traveller. The Universal profiles make it easy to port stuff over from the various editions regardless of rulesets. T20 and GURPS being exceptions to the easy part.
>>97509335Not op, but I'm seriously considering gurpstrav both because I think either of my groups will prefer it, and because I want to play some kind of gurps at some point.
OP here. I guess I'll just go with Mongoose 2e and use 1e supplements in case anything is missing. Cheers guys. Shame about Traveller General though.
>>97507690You forgot GURPS Traveller.
>>97511642>Everyone says to use 1e>Guess I'll use 2eWhy even make the thread?
>>97512186>Everyone says to use 1eNot trying to be a douche here, just actually confused about all these versions that are so similar but so different at the same time. Barely anyone even replied to the thread, and even though people have suggested to pick 1e/Cepheus nobody gave any reason as to why it's a better option than 2e. Care to elaborate?
>>97512251>>97508357I elaborated right here. It's cheaper, the art is better, and it's more complete in one book than the 2e book is. Any changes between 2e and 1e are lateral moves, there are no improvements. 1e is also arguably more "toolkit" than 2e is (but only slightly so.)
>>97507690probably any will workmaybe modern ones are better accomodating for generating random stuffI'm using M1ed if only because that got into my hands first
>>97507690I use Mong2e because those were the books that were easier for me to get. I suppose I'll agree with the rest of the thread & say it doesn't really matter. I will also agree that if you want to run 2e you should get the Traveller Companion, maybe some of the other books they list as "core" on their website. I'll agree that it'd be better as one package, but I don't really get the other reasons people in this thread have given for Mong 1e. I won't doubt that the art could be better but that doesn't actually matter for running the game. Nor price, since you can find 2e's quickstart rules for free & 1e's pdf online easily. If all the changes are lateral, not positive or negative than it doesn't really matter.
>>97517829If any mechanical changes are lateral, than all we have to go on are aesthetic choices. The mong1e book is more complete, better laid out, and has better artwork. I would rather read 1e than 2e.And a lot of people like having a physical book at the table, so cost does matter. You can get a barely used copy of 1e for half the price of any listing I ever see for 2e on Amazon or eBay. That's kind of a no brainer. Your post boils down to>If you ignore all the ways that the 1e book is better than the 2e book, they're exactly the same!It's bonehead shit. Stop being a bonehead.
>>97507690>CTThe original and still the best. Easiest to learn as a player, easiest to modify as a GM. The Share Thread will have links to almost all of it; GDW and 3rd party>Cepheus EngineCore and a lot of supporting materials are free. Uses the SRD Mongoose created from CT. Added benefit of CE is that the rules and setting are intertwined around each as you'll find in much of CT.>MgT1eThe additions, changes, and other updates don't make it better than CT/CE just somewhat harder and more time consuming to use. They added complexity for complexity's sake because that's what "modern" players supposedly want. They also completely failed in their alleged goal of making the Traveller a "universal" sci-fi rules set. The non-Trav setting they released for 1e ranged from poor to godawful.>MgT2eLess of an update and more of an excuse to sell more splats. Where you could run a game with the MGT1e core book alone, you have to buy a couple 2e books to get the 2e "core". They have released a shit ton of 3I setting splats ranging from, good to godawful so there's a LOT of material to look over.The links the Share Thread will give you will have a rules comparison PDF and a "getting started with Traveller" PDF. Both are worth reading.If you absolutely MUST have a physical splat sitting on the table during play, most of 2e can still be purchased. You'll only be able to find used 1e books for sale.
>>97518443>The non-Trav setting they released for 1e ranged from poor to godawful.Nah, it's got dope Judge Dread and Strontium Dog settings and Orbital 2001 was incredibly well liked.
>>97518443Speaking of cepheus anyone ever try out this supplement?
>>97518681Orbital 2100 is for Cepheus and not MgT.We'll have to disagree about Dread and Strontium Dogs. Just as with Hammer's Slammers, I found that Mongoose changed those settings to fit the rules instead changing the rules to fit the settings.
>>97520779Orbital 2100 originally released for Traveller. The very first edition had the traveller logo on it.
I'd say use Mongoose 2e since it's more approachable/some of the edges are smoothed off, but be prepared to delve into the more specific details of individual scenarios by falling back on the splatbooks for Mongoose 1e.For example my party recently decided to do some slave trading. No news of where to find such info in 2e, it's got an entire chapter in one of the handbooks for 1e.
>>97520903>Orbital 2100 originally released for Traveller. The very first edition had the traveller logo on it.No. The 1st edition was released in 2016 and had the writer's Paul Elliot's Zozer Games logo.You're probably confusing Qrbital 2100 with Outworld Authority. Paul Elliot wrote both; O:2100 for Cepheus which Elliot helped develop and OA for Classic Traveller under the Mongoose licensed TAS imprint.Traveller has been around for almost 50 years now. Keeping track of all the publishers is hard.
>>97509340It's not bad if your group already has played GURPS or Traveller. If they are new things for you guys not so much.
>>97520279It's very good. Like early CT, it's easy to learn, easy to modify, and has just enough of a setting to to help and not handcuff a GM.There have been a few supplements released that can be used with it. One called "Gift of the Maker" was released by Mongoose and is a sort of prequel for O:2100. That may explain >>97520903's confusion.
>>97520981This is good advice. MgT2e has more of what current players think an RPG should have. A lot of Traveller has an OSR feel to it, not surprising as the game dates from the RPG era that OSR tries to emulate.The only downside is that you'll have to buy more MgT2e splats besides the core book to have a workable game.
>>97520981>>97521280I really don't understand what "edges" 2e has filed off in regards to 1e. They are 90% the same game. 1e isn't a rare book, if we're talking about physical books, and if we're talking about PDFs, it's a moot point. The 1e core is a more complete book that the 2e core. 1e is objectively the better get.
>>97521086Why would it not be a good introduction to gurps? I've ran some traveller over the years.
>>97521593>The 1e core is a more complete book that the 2e core. 1e is objectively the better get.1e is a better choice and for all the reasons you've stated. The question now is whether the OP can find the 1e core book as easily as the books they'd need to use 2e.It's not about you and me. We could find a physical copy of 1e on Amazon, eBay, or wherever. The OP seemingly wants something easier than that. So they can go to the Mongoose site, wave a credit card, and spend more money than they need to do buying more more books than they should.After all, getting players to spend more money no real reason at all was the thinking behind Mongoose releasing 2e.
>>97521593>I really don't understand what "edges" 2e has filed off in regards to 1e.2e does more of the "thinking" for the players and GMs. Players today can't come up with a PC backstory beyond "Uhh.. they're an orphan." and that even begs the question of why PCs even NEED a backstory in the first place.1e and to a greater extent 2e does more of the pregame and in-game "creative" work for the players/GMs by presenting a shit ton of tables to mindlessly roll on in the hopes of being creating pages of contacts, friends, Ancient artifacts, and other bennies they can use in play.RPGs haven't employed a Braunstein style of play in which rulings are made instead of rules being quoted for decades now. People want every jot, tittle, happenstance, and potential occurrence in play covered, explained, codified, and reduced to a formula or look-up so they can sleepwalk thru their sessions without any upsets.2e provides more of that than 1e which provided more than TNE which provided more than MT which provided more than late CT and so forth.
>>97522008>2e does more of the "thinking" for the players and GMs. Players today can't come up with a PC backstory beyond "Uhh.. they're an orphan." and that even begs the question of why PCs even NEED a backstory in the first place.>1e and to a greater extent 2e does more of the pregame and in-game "creative" work for the players/GMs by presenting a shit ton of tables to mindlessly roll on in the hopes of being creating pages of contacts, friends, Ancient artifacts, and other bennies they can use in play.How does 2e do this differently than 1e? They both use the exact same kinds of career and life event tables. How does 2e do this to a greater extent than 1e?
>>975220352e has more splats providing more details for more careers.
>>97522048How does "game has splats with more careers" have anything to do with anything that you said in >>97522008And, besides that non sequitur of an answer, more splats that are more specifically third imperium related aren't what OP is looking for, and my entire point is that 1e is better because you don't *need* more splats.
>>97522091>my entire point is that 1e is betterI've been agreeing with that from the beginning, Sheldon.All I've done is point out why some people might want 2e over 1e. Not you, not me, but other people.
>>97522137You've been doing a very bad job of it. I guess thank you?
>>97521896>It's not about you and me. We could find a physical copy of 1e on Amazon, eBay, or wherever. The OP seemingly wants something easier than that. So they can go to the Mongoose site, wave a credit card, and spend more money than they need to do buying more more books than they should.So, if we're talking pirating, it took me a few minutes to find the 1e pdf. It's very easy to find. One could assume that if they could find the 2e PDF, they could find the 1e one.
>>97522173>You've been doing a very bad job of it. Really?>Less of an update and more of an excuse to sell more splats.>The only downside is that you'll have to buy more MgT2e splats besides the core book to have a workable game.>1e is a better choice and for all the reasons you've stated. >I guess thank you?No, Sheldon, thank you. Thank you for reminding me why I should never engage with autists.
>>97522251It's weird you'd try to lie and say that's what happened, when people can follow the reply chain in this very thread. I asked a question, you gave a vague, meandering non-answer, I asked for specific clarification, you gave a dumb, unrelated answer, and now you're weirdly doubling down on a point that you're claiming you don't care about. Who's autistic here, bud?
>>97521896>1e is a better choice and for all the reasons you've stated. The question now is whether the OP can find the 1e core book as easily as the books they'd need to use 2e.OP here. Honestly I won't be buying any books, desu, I don't understand why anons here assumed I was going to buy physical but that's not the case. Even if I had to buy the books, I'd get PDFs instead. The point is: the thread isn't about availability or cost, it's only about the differences between editions and which is more suitable for a homebrew setting.
>>97521052>>Orbital 2100 originally released for Traveller>No.ntaTrivially correct by title but wrong by majority of content which was released for Traveller.The Orbital book was released for Traveller in Dec 2012. The original back cover, pic related, said it's for Traveller and this interview with Paul Elliot confirm this even if he calls it 2100 which was not the title in 2012.>When Mongoose introduced the Traveller license, I knew this was a chance to put out an alternative setting for Traveller and brought out Orbital 2100, a hard SF solar system SF setting.>Paul Elliot interview.Cepheus Engine came out in 2016. Orbital 2100, also from 2016, is a redacted and expanded revision of Orbital removing the Traveller specific elements for licensing purposes and adding spaceship construction while leaving the setting is unchanged. Drivethru rpg customers got a 50% discount for Orbital 2100 if they had already purchased Orbital.
Is the traveller book a good entry point, or are more current editions better?
>>97507690From a 30,000ft view, these games are similar enough that there isn't any significant difference.CT or Classic Traveller is a great system that still works today. There's 8 core books for a complete rules set and they are all easily obtainable. Just be careful as some of the rules step on each other a little bit. Easily corrected but you'll want to make sure you know what's going on before fielding it at the table.MgT 1e is a great attempt at redoing the CT rules all cleaned up with a few minor tweaks. Mongoose suffers from poor editing. These books can sometimes be a little frustrating when you're trying to understand a rule only to discover that they fucked it up with a mistype and didn't correct it in the proofreading. MgT 1e also had a great third party content community that did some great stuff.MgT 2e has a few minor changes; they reduced the total number of PC skills by combining a few, they changed some of the vehicle rules, an d they added a couple of modernizations to the mechanics. (they replaced some of the fixed modifiers with a advantage/disadvantage die) They spread the core rules out over several 200+ page books, 11 of them for $50 each.Cepheus Engine is worth looking at not as the SRD but in the variants. Hostile is a 80s industrial scifi game. These Stars are Ours is a 50s/60s pulp scifi setting. Clement Sector is a high tech lost colonies game.
We run cepheus because our setting is homebrewed and we wanted something more setting agnostic, its worked well in our campaign for over a year and we have no complaints with it. If we were using the third imperium setting or whatever its called we'd run traveller, but I don't know the differences between 1e/2e. If you're playing online then maybe availability of good foundryvtt support could be a factor, there's an unofficial 2d6 system for foundry that covers cepheus pretty well at least
>>97507690I would recommend 2e 2022e (note there is also a 2e 2016e, the two are different and not terribly clearly noted)It is the one that most folks are playing online, it has better ship combat than Classic or 1e / cepheus(still not great mind you)
>>97523166I've played a lot of Mongoose 2e and I can tell you with certainty that the three core books are really shittily written. I haven't checked out 1e or classic but if people here are saying the books are better crafted, I recommend believing them.
>>97525844>we wanted something more setting agnosticmy homebrew setting just has the spaceports owned by inter-polity space jew banks, there's not really any awkwardness around not using the TI setting
>>97524520> the traveller bookYou need to be more specific. Which "the traveller book"?
>>97529422There's several the traveller book? I thought there was just the one the book
>>97529532Sorry, with the proper capitalisation clearly indicating it was the actual book title not just some semi-literate poster throwing in an unneeded article there was no room for confusion on my part.>>97524520Being Traveller other than Traveller The New Era or Marc Miller's Traveller means it's fine. If you have modern players with modern expectations of how games run you might be better off with Mongoose or T5. If you want a more intricate system use T5. Both of those are being developed still.If you want a simpler system and old school style then Classic like that book is the way to go. If you decide to change editions then it won't have been much of an entry point as the mechanics in different editions tend to be very different and the setting lore often changes too
1e core was fine and the compact version was super good value but the big issue with 1e was the rapidly diminishing quality of the line which fell off a cliff before long. Products were inconsistent, poorly thought out or just plain useless. 2e update 2022 fixed a few things and has a much clearer layout than the 1st version of 2e. Also the example subsector chapter was cut to make way for more useful stuff. Despite the huge product line this book is all you need to play.
>>97531042>Despite the huge product line this book is all you need to play.How well do you fare in 2e without the central supply catalogue? I bought core, CSC and high guard and while I definitely could do without the third, the second has seen a lot of use in giving the players not just money sinks, but useful item possibilities.
>>97533588>How well do you fare in 2e without the central supply catalogue? II genuinely don't know what the other anon is talking about. The core book of 2E really has everything you need to run a game (or at least the updated 2022 version does)It contains>Vehicles>Wide array of equipment including various suits, augments, weapons and support equipment >All of the ships your players will actually encounter including lab ships and mercenary eggs>World generation rules and trading value charts>Stats for Aslan and Vargr for useHonestly it's even more thorough than the classic traveller books 1-2-3 collection most tell you is all you need for play. Maybe the older version of 2E is lacking but as it is the revised core rules should give you all you need to get playing.
>>97535057I recommend checking out the central supply catalog pdf. No need to buy it but it has a shit load of items and while a lot of them are useless, a lot of them are exactly the opposite. My players have dug leafing through it and finding shit to blow their money on after a big pay day on a high tech world. The core rulebook does have a good number of suits and weapons but I found its gadgets and utility stuff to be limited.
>>97535077Oh yeah I've seen it, it's amazing. I love huge catalogs of items that range from feasible to life saving to bat shit insane. The old cyberpunk 2020 and Shadow run had fantastic examples of such stuff as well. Nothing gets peoples minds jogging quite like an array of sparkling toys spread out. Sure you may never actually require that deep sea survival suit, but it looks cool and wouldn't it be nice to have it just in case?
>>97507690Aperently lord weird slough fegs traveller album is based on an introductory adventure Anyone knows which one?https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kQXM6jnPPzXk5gLwqftLE6A4Rt3l_ZThw&playnext=1&index=1
>>97537562Supposedly "Imperial Fringe".
>>97537562They released a follow up traveller album recently too.
>>97518000Dude, I really don't care about art, I don't pick the book up to show off to my table like I'm doing reading time for first graders.I also like real books at the table, & I'll agree on the other things too, if OP buys the 2nd edition like it seems he wants to then he should print out an index for the core rulebook.
>>97541878Yeah the second one is fantastic in my opinionOne of the few albums where I love every song
>>97542421If I have a choice between a book I enjoy looking at, and a book I don't enjoy looking at, I'm going to pick the one I enjoy looking at. The art is part of the inspirational nature of the book as an artifact. Art can also communicate information: the first version of the 2nd edition book has dogshit, isometric ship floorplans that are harder to read for no reason. I believe they changed it for the next version, but I honestly can't remember.
>>97542530Agreed. Very solid album.Classic Traveller is in this almost enviable position that the OSR isn't. There exists 50 years of homebrew content but there hasn't been this watering down that classic D&D editions are dealing with. It's kind of bittersweet in a way, as that content really doesn't get much love, but it is insulated from the same types who damaged the OSR community with their low effort slop. Most of them end up making stuff for Mothership, I reckon.Highly recommend checking out Freelance Traveller. Tons of stuff to pull from.
>>97542530>>97544102Where can I listen? The youtube link earlier said unavailable and it's not on spotify
>>97544295I don't know how anon fucked up sharing a link but just look it up on YouTube dude it's all there
>>97544379>https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kQXM6jnPPzXk5gLwqftLE6A4Rt3l_ZThw&playnext=1&index=1Sheeeit you right, thanks anon the intro to spinward marches immediately goes hard.
>>97544295it's on there, search for the artists name as a topic. You'll have to scroll down a bit, though.
>>97544102I think it's interesting that traveller doesn't have the toxic purity spiral that the osr has spiraled into. No one is arguing about whether or not TNA or Gurps traveller counts as worthy of discussion, and even the people who prefer classic to mongoose are will to discuss the merits and flaws of both systems.It sucks that discussion about the game is usually so dead, but I assume thats because people who would be talking about Traveller are actually playing the fucking game as opposed to talking about the game.
>>97545241I think there's just not that many of us.
>>97545241>>97545848A shame too because I really think Traveller kicks ass. I wish "generic" space opera sci-fi were more popular. It seems most people who want to play a sci-fi RPG end up playing something like Star Wars or 40k.I say we make an effort to maintain a Traveller general. I know it has been tried in the past, but it would be nice to see the playerbase expand. Maybe some sort of community project where we roll up some systems and piece together a small chunk of a setting. Or even just post inspirational art, fiction and play reports. It wouldn't even have to be a Traveller exclusive general, but something like /hsg/ but for general sci-fi gaming that doesn't already have an explicit thread.
>>97546839>I say we make an effort to maintain a Traveller general.That's been an on and off thing for many years. Also, /tg/ is really really shit compared to what it used to be. There aren't enough people here anymore to reasonably grow the playerbase. At its height, the thread was most people sharing some stuff happening in their campaigns and more commonly the thread being bumped with example characters, planets, jobs, etc. It was a nice repository for all the PDFs but those can still easily be found. I appreciate your love of the game, because it's great, but you'll have to settle for discussions when you have something interesting from your campaign to discuss.
How do I get into traveller?
>>97507690>>97507772FPBPAll the content is easily interchangeable. All that really matters is presentation.Just get Mongoose 2nd edition, with the updated corebook that has ship-creation rules inside of it. This edition is getting new content, new hardcover books you can guy in person and touch all you want. I really do like the full colour interior artwork and fancy feeling ship layouts.
Since the thread is here, are there rules for running domain level play in Traveller anywhere?Ruling over a country, nation, planet, world, ect?I know where the megacorp rules are, but haven't seen anything akin to rulership.
>>97553976Pocket Empires for T4.Supplement 12 Dynasty for MgT1e.
>>97553048>>97509278Good thread on this.
>>97554403Cheers my dude.
>>97554403>>97554510An excellent suggestion as both are good resources. Add Imperial Squadrons from T4 to that. World Tamer's Handbook from TNE is worth also looking at. It's almost ACKS-like and covers setting up a colony from a high level perspective. Be sure to get the errata for Pocket Empires too, otherwise you'll have trouble running it. T4's shit tier editing makes Mongoose's institutional shoddy efforts look like the OED.
sweet
why are the pdfs for mongoose's shjit and CT so hard to find? is mongoose like Dan Fox or something
>>97565779Are you fucking retarded or something? The last several Share Threads have seen various anons posting links to extensive CT and MgT troves.
>>97566179>Are you fucking retarded or something?it's a bait post
