fudge theirs whenever they deem it improves the story. Simple As.
maybe they should dm if they think they know how to best present the narrative.
Fat Colville: Tolkien is highly overrated and The Black Company is a far superior series to LoTR. Now let's get this campaign started with an hour long monologue about my genius backstory.
>DM screenAre you going to start throwing out accusations anon?
CounterpointNobody fudgeDont play a bookPlay the game and make the story as you go
>>97518530That is not in fact the social agreement, I'm sorry mr. autist.if you don't like it, you can run a game for once.
There are systems that allow players to do just that. Otherwise, talk with the GM.
>>97518561>That is not in fact the social agreement, I'm sorry mr. autist.>if you don't like it, you can run a game for once.If the DM is fudging for the sake of the story then I have that right too. The "social agreement" is that story takes precedence over stupid random results. If that means I hide my fudging from the DM, so be it lol. I'll reveal it after the campaign is over.
>>97518571Not only is this not the social agreement, your plans for hiding your duplicity are amateurish to the point of sounding like a child created them.
>>97518571so why don't you dm if you think you know to lead a story better instead of construction a social agreement that doesnt exist?
>>97518577>Not only is this not the social agreement, your plans for hiding your duplicity are amateurish to the point of sounding like a child created them.Instead of name calling explain where I'm wrong. >DM isn't more important than palyers>rule of cool>Narrative matters more than dumb random bad luck>fun matters more than autistically obeying rulesAll of those mean a player is within his rights to fudge if the DM fudges. QED.
>>97518587You are dishonest and stupid, and you receive the answers you deserve.
>>97518581>so why don't you dm if you think you know to lead a story better instead of construction a social agreement that doesnt exist?Why should I? He wants to DM and I want to play. Every pro-fudging argument like Colville's (btw, him=multi-millionaire famous DM, you=anon nobody) says you don't explicitly tell the players when you've fudged a roll. Basic reciprocity, a more fundamental underpinning to good social behavior than any ElfGame rule, says I should be subject to the same rules as him. Therefore I won't tell him when I'm fudging because what he doesn't know won't hurt him. All he'll know is that I've improved the game for everyone.
>>97518599Seethe about it, I guess. Or don't.
>>97518571no you don't :)
>>97518530You can run your own table however you want. Just discuss it at session 0 and make sure everyone is on the same page. Find a group that plays the way that you like to play. If you and the DM fundametally disagree on how the game should be run, then you're gonna have a bad time.
>>97518599is this supposed to be rage bait or are you just genuinely this autistic? not that there is much difference, I should at least give you the benefit of picking how I dismiss you.
>>97518620>is this supposed to be rage bait or are you just genuinely this autistic? not that there is much difference, I should at least give you the benefit of picking how I dismiss you.Sounds like you're just a bad person. Go post this topic on any forum and you'll see 90% agree with me and not you.
>>97518683burden of proof is on you.
>>97518683I have free will to do what I want but I choose to fudge
>>97518704>I have free will to do what I want but I choose to fudgeBased. If the DM is so inept you can see he will allow a PC to die in a random encounter, it's incumbent on a better person to fudge their rolls to salvage the situation and create a better outcome.
>>97518599Bro. It is a game of pretend and the DM and you are on the same side. What is your major malfunction?
It's funny how you can search this topic on Youtube and predict with 100% accuracy whether the creator is pro or anti fudging based on their physiognomy.
>>97518599>Basic reciprocity>'My host has no ethical quibbles with sleeping with his own wife as the man of the house; as I am a man in his house, there should be no problem if I also sleep with his wife!'
>>97518759>>Basic reciprocity>>'My host has no ethical quibbles with sleeping with his own wife as the man of the house; as I am a man in his house, there should be no problem if I also sleep with his wife!'
>>97518765So, what, you spend the entire thread pretending to be retarded, then pull this out to try to dig up some kind of political thing?Anything other than people shitting on you repeatedly for being dishonest and stupid, eh?
No one is more committed to the rolling of dice than meBut to try and impose your dice rolls upon me is insulting, outrageous and arrogantMerry Christmas
>>97518777based 7s
>>97518765Yes, that image does refer to you. Pretending to not understand that the guy running the game (NPCs, physics, rules, and players to some extent) is higher on the hierarchy than a guy who's only job is to announce intent and roll dice. Especially when part of the GM's job is ruling; that is, adjudicating the results of actions when the game is unclear on the particular circumstances the group finds themselves in, or when the rules of the game produce an outcome that is determined to be foolish, unappealing, or confused.
>>97518571>If the DM is fudging for the sake of the story then I have that right too.The DM often spends time preparing the world and knows what sort of surprises may be in store in the world he is running. You don't. TPK can be part of a story but it's often not a great part as far as the campaign goes, and cakewalks aren't much fun either.The DM player is the arbiter of the rules, the ultimate authority in their game. The PC players are not. If he says he can fudge dice rolls and you can't, that's too bad for you.
>>97518759>>'My host has no ethical quibbles with sleeping with his own wife as the man of the house; as I am a man in his house, there should be no problem if I also sleep with his wife!'"Hey Elon, you work for Tesla and are legally entitled to a billion dollars salary per year; as I am also a worker for Tesla there should be no problem if I also get access to the accounts and extract a billion dollars!"Excellent fascist reasoning. You should try it out next time you get a break scrubbing toilets at your job.
>>97518530If I fudge the dice you will never know about it.
>>97518530The closest thing to dice fudging i ever did was doing the "when undecided flip a coin, before it lands you will know what you really want" trick, other than that i mostly roll in the open.
>>97518530You have to fudge rolls now. You might upset a Redditor, accidentally kill her character!
>>97518865>The closest thing to dice fudging i ever did was doing the "when undecided flip a coin, before it lands you will know what you really want" trick, other than that i mostly roll in the open.This is actually true for any decision where you think you've undecided once you've given it a reasonable amount of thought, such as "should I take this job" or "should I ditch that whore".
>>97518530if they dm fudges dice i ll just go do something better with my time. Open rolls is the only acceptable way
>>97518877I fudge rolls to kill the redditor's character.
>>97518571i'll bite this baitwhen it comes to dice player characters have one responsibility: rolling dicewhen it comes to dice the game master has two responsibilities: rolling dice and interpreting the results of all dice rollsfudging the dice is an extension of that interpreting part, not the rolling part
You can try to fudge a dice roll, I'm just going to remove you from the group if I see it. Like come on nigga, we're all playing a game of make believe and you've chosen to have me as the rule maker. Why do you want to "win" so badly that you'd break the rules you agreed to?
>>97518777Trips of truth
>>97518546>player screenYeah I rolled a 20, now what?
>>97519496>>player screenNot at my table.
>>97518530Then maybe you should GM if you think you should have that much control over the game. Simple As.
Reminder that fudging is an instrument of the devil
>>97518530>>97518571>>97518599What austism is what prevents you from getting that GMs have a different type of power than the players? Like, do you get angry that the GM gets to know your character's stats while you can't see the monster's? I wouldn't put it pass you
>>97518821>fascist reasoningTake your meds and reconsider suicide.
I don't fudge my rolls at my table. Fudging is the sign of a lazy GM who has a predetermined outcome in mind when the roll is made, and I do not railroad my players. If you can't come up with a way to turn a failure into a different opportunity for the stor being told, you should probably stick to playing.
>>97519919yeah the predetermined outcome is not letting the level 1s die to a single lucky roll in the first session.
>>97519934skill issue
>>97518550Not just a social contract, that’s the dynamic of the game itself:Players get to interact with the world and narrative directly, but are restricted to only being able to work within the limits of the system. The GM can’t directly engage with the story: only through NPCs and the environment can he do anything to direct the narrative, but has no limits placed upon him on how he can alter the world except his own sense of fair play.Basically: the GM can fudge dice because his status as GM gives him that power and more. You, as the player, don’t.
>>97518530>playoids>rights
>>97519988>The GM can’t directly engage with the story:>the GM can fudge dice pick one or even better, pick a game that's less retarded so you don't have to fudge dice to keep your shitty story going.
>>97519732This is a hilarious edit and I laughed heartily, but I still have no regrets fudging the rolls to let the last living player of the battle barely slay the boss and drag his party back to town to revive them. Close calls are way more exciting than TPK.
>>97520009If you have to cheat to make your game exciting, your game is badly made.
>>97520007You do realize that when the GM is fudging dice it’s more often so he doesn’t instantly murder your character because the monster you’re fighting just got some crazy high rolls. Because you strike me as the kinda player that would absolutely throw a full screaming tantrum if their precious snowflake got deleted in the first round of combat.I’d say try being a GM for once, but frankly, the GM position isn’t a suitable place for insecure crybabies that need to “win” at everything or they fall apart. Internet has enough RPG horror stories as it is.
>>97520059Yes, I do realize that and that is why its a shit game to run. If you have to cheat to make your story work, you're a bad gm and have chosen a bad game. >nogames lol ironic coming from a failed fantasy novelist.
>>97519934Why are you running a game with level 1 characters if their survival purely up to luck? If you don't want the possibility of them dying, then either start them at a higher level or play a game where low-levels aren't randomly lethal.
>>97518530>fudgingWhy act like you're playing a game at that point?
>>97520059NTA but if you didn't want the party to get crit to death by monsters then why'd you put them in a situation where they could get crit to death by monsters?Like, my brother in christ, you made the encounter.
>>97518530>I want to dictate how other tables should runFuck off and die and no one cares what you think.
>>97520063>to make your story workHis post was about how it wasn't for the sake of story. Why are you so hung up on thinking it's about preserving the story?
>>97518530>If your boss wants to fire you, fire them first.Simple As.
>>97520139Because that’s the argument he has scripted responses to.
>>97520007please tell me a game where you think the GM can't fudge anything
>>97520298As a DM, I don't fudge. But you have to be smart. Don't send monsters at them that can turn the tables with a single good roll. My difficulty slider stays closer to medium, hard for bosses. If my players win, I want them to know they earned it, not because I'm a wimp DM.
>>97520298A GM *can* fudge, but at that point, they're no longer a GM, only a liar sitting behind a screen and telling people what they personally think should happen, instead of running a game.
>>97520538>As a DM, I don't fudge. But you have to be smart. Don't send monsters at them that can turn the tables with a single good roll. My difficulty slider stays closer to medium, hard for bosses. If my players win, I want them to know they earned it, not because I'm a wimp DM.This is fine, but even experienced DM's don't implement it well for OSR characters with 8 hp. You can use reaction rolls, morale, evasion, etc. etc. but if parties who play "smart" will still get fucked up too often if you pit them against monsters who do 1d8 damage. It's simple: the 1st level opponents should be kobolds with daggers who do 1d4 damage, or miniatures shoggoths who do 1d4, etc. The name of the game is attrition.
>>97520538>>97520077You do know people can make misjudge how lethal an encounter is, regardless of system. Sometimes you can end up creating a creature with a mix of abilities that ends up curb stomping the party even if that wasn't the intent, since its not like you can do a test run to know how some things will end up working together, and that's not even talking if you're using tables to randomly generate encounters.
>>97518530Players and GMs are not equals.
>>97520855>You do know people can make misjudge how lethal an encounter is, regardless of system. Sometimes you can end up creating a creature with a mix of abilities that ends up curb stomping the party even if that wasn't the intent, since its not like you can do a test run to know how some things will end up working together, and that's not even talking if you're using tables to randomly generate encounters.Extremely simple answer to this: you give the players an escape without fudging. The key is to let them know this isn't a die roll. Then they can decide whether or not to accept the freebie, but either way they know they can trust the game.e.g. You misjudged the ghoul encounter, everyone is paralyzed. Obviously should be a TPK. You can openly tell them "Ok, metagame, remember how last session the vampire summoned some ghouls? It could happen here to, he might legit be summoning them. We can either just decide it happens, or I can roll for a 50% chance, or we TPK. You guys choose."The key is being open about it. Even the never-fudger midwits confuse this issue with "only ignoring a roll is fudging". Nigga, if you pull a Deus Ex Machina like this WITHOUT TELLING THEM IT'S FAKE, that's the same as fudging.
>>97520974Or you could not say nothing and fudge to solve the issue quickly and who's going to stop you? the RPG police?
>>97520838incorrect
>>97518530How do you know if a GM fudges the dice? If a GM is using a screen then you are reliant on the GM to tell you what the results are. If you do not trust your GM and you do not believe he is doing his best you run a good game for you and the other players then you need to stand up and walk away from the table. Simple as.
Eh, I'll stick to Gary's words on the subject. AD&D 1st edition still did it best.
>>97521017>Or you could not say nothing and fudge to solve the issue quickly and who's going to stop you? the RPG police?Shut up, Fat.
>>97521121This. >>97520974"Narrative fudging is not the same as dice fudging at all!" Uh huh. You can't say "don't play story games you theater kids" and then say "but changing narrative isn't the same as fudging rolls". That's like complaining about "Quantum ogres." If you don't want to deal with dice, play a diceless game. If you don't want the GM to narrate the story, don't play with other people.
>>97521017Yeah, great idea. Final two characters get paralyzed, everyone's down, but instead of tearing everyone to shreds the mindless ghouls decide to head 15' over the only other room in the crypt and have a tea party. What a coincidence, just like your last session when the dragon you retardedly pitted against the party rolled 8 on 8d8 dragon breath two times in a row. I'm sure your players won't catch on (though if they're stupid enough to play at your table, who knows).
>>97521170>So mad he invented an entire contrived scenario about itBe careful with that strawman, he does 3d6 strw damage
>>97521132>He's popular. You're not. >He makes money with his DM skil. You don't. >He fudges to increase fun. You don't even run games.
>>97518530I am not surprised to learn that Fatt Colville likes fudge
>>97518530>If police gets to shoot random people, I have the same right to
Are there any /tg/ approved games where everything on the player side is modifiers and rolls while the GM side is just flat numbers for challenge ratings?
>>97521393We call those video games.
>>97521434No we don't, only retards who don't know anything about video games do.
>>97521436I mean, you can say that>everything on the player side is modifiers and rolls while the GM side is just flat numbersis basically the definition of picture related.
>>97518530If you're interested in a story then RNGing is retarded. RNG is for when you want to play Baldur's Gate 3 in a luddite fashion
>>97521436Since you had to ask the question, it seems you are a retard who doesn't know anything about tabletop games.
>>97518571>The "social agreement" is that story takes precedence over stupid random results.Literally the exact fucking opposite. The "gameplay" takes precedence over your LOTR rip off story.
>>97521605If we all get tpk'd deep inside a dungeon, everything ends there, but if the GM spare at least one player the survivor can go and find help so that everyone can continue playing.
>>97518530Stop abusing the subject line. It is optional.
>>97521618>If we all get tpk'd deep inside a dungeon, everything ends thereAnd then you start over. It's a game. Why are so many newfags so terrified of losing? You either win or you lose and start over. The point is to play. If you don't see the end of the campaign try again.
>>97519496Sorry that's a failure
>>97521627> terrified of losingAnon, its not just the players, its the GM that has to waste his time starting all over again. For the last fucking time, the GM fudging is done from the GM side, not the player's side. and when its done its usually to avoid wasting time with >character creation, character introduction, ect And its not like it gets done all the time, some times dying IS the best result, specially for a "story" driven game.
>>97521623>Stop abusing the subject line. It is optional.Serious question: are you an alcoholic?
>>97521127Which book is this? Honestly this advice seems really reasonable.
>>97521659>to waste his time startingIf you think that the act of playing is the waste of time then you do not belong in this hobby. If you think the only metric of time well spent is victory then you do not belong in this hobby. If you think your time is wasted, despite spending it with your supposed friends and having fun all this time before is wasted then you do not belong in this hobby. You're already wasting time doing any act. You're wasting time here now. Fuck your game, fuck your time, and FUCK YOU.
>>97521765Are you stupid?
>>97521765you have zero reading comprehension
>>97520077>NTA but if you didn't want the party to get crit to death by monsters then why'd you put them in a situation where they could get crit to death by monsters?Perhaps the GM foolishly hoped the players weren't so retarded or videogame-addled as to fail to perceive that this fight was beyond them?I'd let them die in that scenario.
>>97521121Easy, you look at his face or listen to how he describes the roll. It is very easy to know when he is intentionally saying a different number, or pushed the fudge button over VTT, especially since shitter DMs that fudge do so numerous times.Once you suspect it, then you intentionally do risky things that endanger your character and derail the campaign so you can really see him squirm.I came here to play a game and if you waste my time, then I am going to play my own game, how fast can I get the GM to throw a fit
>>97518530If the ref is allowed to travel on the court then so are the players. If a ref carrying a ball without dribbling improves the game then players also have the right to. Simple As.
>>97521659Character creation is fun, introducing new characters is fun.Do you know what's not fun? Knowing that everything that you do at the table doesn't fucking matter because you can't lose, you are wasting your time rolling dice that have no functional effect because you are going to win regardless. Why not skip it and just narrate how your character wins instead of wasting everyones time pretending you are playing a game when you are not
>>97521963>If the ref is allowed to travel on the court then so are the players. If a ref carrying a ball without dribbling improves the game then players also have the right to. >>Simple As.The referee is supposed to enforce the rules and world impartially therefore the ref can secretly award one team 20 extra points and announce, at the end of the game, the loser actually won because it makes for a better story.Simple As.
>>97521982This person was correct and I was wrong to feed you, you troll.>>97518598
>>97521981Why is always the most extreme examples with you? As if, the GM is always fudging and you need to be paranoic about it, instead of thrusting its done only when absolutely necessary, usually to avoid an unforeseen misstep. Character creation can be fun, but when you, lets say, just finish doing your character to start playing, and you accidentally die after an hour of play because of RNG, its not as fun, its not punishing, is just a waste of time.
>>97521982You do know the referee in this case IS the other team, and the one getting the extra points its you, right? Right?
>>97520855You do know that you can be open and honest with your group about fucking up, right? You don't have to lie, you achieve the same result, and everyone's cool with it since they know what's going on.>since its not like you can do a test run to know how some things will end up working together,You can absolutely do a test run.
>>97522075You're not going to test run every encounter you generate. And I find that saying you fuck up should be a last instance option, its jarring to peak behind the curtain, it breaks the illusion on how the game is run. I would say its easier if the rest of the players happen to be GMs themselves, in that case you can be more comfortable with rolling in the open and showing some of your hand in the occasions you mess up.
>>97522104>You're not going to test run every encounter you generateIf you're using homebrew and/or don't know your shit then you absolutely should. >And I find that saying you fuck up should be a last instance option, its jarring to peak behind the curtain, it breaks the illusion on how the game is runThere is no mystical illusion, you're a nerd doing paperwork not a fucking genie. Besides, the occasional break in the game is a lot better than poisoning the well for all your games, past and future, when your players find out.Learn your shit, try not to fuck up, and don't cheat.
>>97518543The Black Company is very good, but anyone trying to compare it to LotR's is a fucking idiot.
>>97518530>fudge theirsBut players don't have dice. The DM is the only one allowed to make rolls, and he doesn't show the results to the players. He just announces the outcome from behind the screen. Do you even play games?
>>97521548You can say that a light green Volkswagen beetle is basically a fruit because it shares a color with Granny Smith apples, too, but that's just as retarded as calling something that isn't a video game a video game.
>>97518587>>DM isn't more important than palyersThat part is objectively wrong though. The DM *IS* far more important than the players. The DM is literally the game itself, it all happens inside the DM's mind. He is the universe. The players just visit it.
>>97522545So then you must agree that selling TTRPGs for any amount of money, including giving users a "pay what you want" option, is an outright scam.
I never fudge and it makes my players screech because I generally crit many multiple times a combat LOL
>>97522240>when your players find out.they wont
>>97522670Wrong. Chances are they already know.
>>97522564I don't must do anything, boy.
>>97522240most players don't give a shit about the odd fudge here and there, and you know that
>>97522744No. And you wont notice either.
>>97518530My table my rules. :)
>>97522909NO! That isn't true. Because if that were true it would mean that a /tg/ opinion is wrong. And if a /tg/ opinion is wrong then it means that /tg/ is out of touch with the hobby. That isn't possible because /tg/ is the hobby. This is now and has always been the most relevant place for understand the tabletop gaming hobby as it is being played and as it exists. We are not a bunch of bitter, divorced millennials that are grappling with our own increasing cultural irrelevance. We are tabletop gaming. SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.
disregard that, I suck cocks
>>97520848>OSR characters with 8 hpRunning is an option
>>97522909>N-nobody cares if I cheat anyway!Lmao cope.
>>97523267you lost this cultural battle in tabletop gaming decades ago
>>97523241>Running is an option>Great planning. First round of combat, hobgoblin hits PC for 1d8 dmg - does 8, he's dead.>Dude you could have run. I mean you have to run from every single encounter since every hit has greater than 10% chance of killing you, but you can't expect me to calibrate encounters with such intricate math! I'll just fudge!
>>97523267When I fudge a roll it's usually on the spot and more like downgrading a crit to a normal hit or something.The game world is an illusion. It's not a competition, it's about having fun. Whether it's mechanical fun or narrative fun. If nudging a result one way or another results in more fun had by players whether it's more or less danger I'd say it's fine if it's used sparringly.
>>97523284>The game world is an illusion. It's not a competition, it's about having fun. Whether it's mechanical fun or narrative fun. If nudging a result one way or another results in more fun had by players whether it's more or less danger I'd say it's fine if it's used sparringly.Agree and that's exactly what OP is saying. If the player has more fun by fudging his rolls then it's fine as long as it's used sparingly.
>>97523283First level PCs shouldn't fight hobgoblins, especially if there's more than one. If they did, that was a bad choice and any injury received was fair.It was their fault for going deep enough to see hobgoblins.
>>97523287Nope, players don't get that right. We're going in circles because you're being deliberately obtuse
>>97518530ACKs resolve this elegantly, check it out
>>97523284>>97523310What gives you the right to decide what's more or less fun for someone else?>I'm the GM! Muh social contract!GMing is a volunteer position that doesn't give you the power or authority you think it does. You're not special. You're another player, just with more shit to do.
>>97518530>such a "that's going in my arse" expression
>>97523328The GM IS the arbiter and referee. And my players are my friends. If I see my friend playing a rogue who's already not having a good time tonight, killing him with multiple crits and shrugging going "That's just the dice baby" feels like just shitting on someone's enjoyment of the hobby. Especially when they're new and struggling already.If he had done something stupid? Yeah no he dies. Same player, later dungeon. He walks across a trapped floor and loses 2/3rds of his HP. If he had ran back he would have died. Instead he smartly stayed where he was until the party could come help him. No fudging needed.
>>97523328If I am so powerless at my table, then how about you stop me, big man. How are you going to make me play at my table, with my friends the way you want me to play. Oh right. You can't. So how about you take your flaccid, impotent inferiority complex back to Mississippi and get forgotten.
>>97523355>If I see my friend playing a rogue who's already not having a good time tonight, killing him with multiple crits and shrugging going "That's just the dice baby" feels like just shitting on someone's enjoyment of the hobby. Especially when they're new and struggling alreadyHave you tried talking with them instead of being a shady motherfucker hiding behind a position of falsely claimed authority?>>97523410Lol, someone's mad.
>>97523444>I.. I.. I.. can't. I'm sorry.Exactly.
>>97523355There's two aspects of fudging that people always seem to overlook. Psychology and making shit up.Psychology comes from player enjoyment, what you're talking about. Reasonable risk. Protecting someone from crits isn't bad, especially if they didn't make any mistakes in the interim.Making shit up comes from the stuff that the DMG doesn't cover. Like is the skill check the kind that could reasonably kill a player? Players are way too clever for their own good and sometimes you just gotta interpret the roll and say what happens. If someone's climbing a cliff and rolls under the DC set do you just kill them? It's technically a fudge to let someone use a skill, reaction, reflex or whatnot to catch themselves or another player.
>>97523460>WELL YOU CAN'T MAKE ME SO I WIN!Gotta be 18+ to post here, champ.
>>97518530No need for me. I just tell people upfront if you rules lawyer a book campaign where I'm trying to teach half of the playgroup how to play a avatar of the evil god comes in and just kills you. You have people Iamverysmarting to do checks to try to break the narrative and I can't even get a retard to understand how combat works.
>>97521954That's a shit GM and you should follow my advice. Get up and find another game. (Or run one yourself.)
>>97523283>First round of combat, hobgoblinOSR style, combat only starts when PCs choose to. Avoid it if you can't fight it
>>97524034Also also, AD&D had mechanics for surviving at sub 0 HP. The idea of dying at 0 HP immediately is a misunderstanding of the rules
>>97522044Dying after an hour is great, optimal even, I don't have much attachment to the character and can just go for another one. I try to die in the first hour these days, so I can determine immediately whether or not to walk away from the table.What part of playing a game do you not understand manchild? Dying is not a fucking accident, losing is not a fucking accident, they are integral part of making the thing a game, removing it is making the whole thing a waste of time because it is no longer a game, you are rolling dice for absolutely no reason. You are the cancer because you fundamentally do not understand what a game is and seem to have difficulty understanding why games are fun. Thanks to dipshits like you I now need to pay attention to see if I am actually playing a game, or just wasting my time waiting for a forgone conclusion to the story. Apparently this is an "extreme" view, fuck you and all you fucking niggers
>>97518530Go back to /v/, faggot.
>>97518587>DM isn't more important than palyersThe Dungeon Master is the master of the game and his is the only opinion that matters. Don't like it, you can run your own game.
>>97521393"Approved" is a strong word, but there are certainly plenty of games like that. PbA games for instance.
>>97522044Picrel
>>97523328When you get to run, you can do It as you want. But again, only when YOU do It.
>>97524077You talk like someone who instead of playing only imagines things. I've seen the "character dies first sesión" happen 3 times at 3 different tables in real life and It always ends up with "nah, you're not making a new character, Lets just said you don't die and keep going"
>>97518530Here's my secret: My favorite group of players and I trust each other to either never fudge, or to only fudge sparingly. We would never ask, accuse, or admit if it happened.
>>97524184Real shit right here.
>>97524077>I deliberately sandbag the first session of games I play in by intentionally getting my character killed as a shit test, like I am some kind of drama-starved woman.Why does this website attract literally every that guy.
>>97518587LmaoIf one of the players is missing, the game goes on as normal without him.If the DM is missing, the game is canceled.DMs are infinitely more important than players.
So you're volunteering to run the game instead?Awesome, I'm sick and tired of being a forever-GM. Here, take my seat, I'll throw together a character sheet.
>>97518571retards still can't refute this
>>97524442>STILL seething about being refutedlol
>>97524486It's all he can do, he's dishonest and stupid.
>>97524442It was refuted literally in the first reply and further refuted many times over. You lost. Cut your dick off.
>>97524506You see anon, if you call him stupid, that means he won because he got human interaction.
>>97524334Because only the socially maladjusted post here regularly
>>97524442>retards still can't refute thisExactly. DM has started some combat that'll take an hour and it's a bad guy I know we must defeat to get past this part of his story that's boring so we can get back to the part I want? Good thing I have a magic ring that can teleport without error once a day on a roll of 10 on 1d10. I'll roll that "10" and scoop up the die while his attention is elsewhere, problem solved, by definition it's a good think since the story is back on track and DM is no worse off since he literals does not know.
>>97518530Players don't have rights. They are agents of chaos and must be oppressed whenever possible.
>>97525342No ano, if the GM is fudging for your benefit you should fudge for the benefit of the GM to make it fair.
>>97524506hey the first post was mine! I thought it was entirely overlooked since no one replied to it
>>97518571Based storychad>DM: And then...A LE RANDOM ENCOUNTER OF BANDITS TPK'S YOU>Me: *rolls a 20 death save* *rolls 20s on every attack and max damage on all my dice*>GM: *Seething*>Chubby 4/10 chick playing a sorcerer tiefling: *Swoons over my saving of the party*
>>97518530Roleplaying is not adversarial. Go play a wargame with set point costs for you to optimize. It's fun.Roleplaying is inherently vague, rules are abstractions of the infinite possibility space, and often a GM makes an error in their calculations or guesses a probability wrong in a way that is not fun. Its ok to make changes on the fly. Sometimes the mistake gets an interesting result, sometimes it doesn't, it's up to the GM to arbitrate when as it is up to him to arbitrate everything else and the encounters in the first place. Personally, when this problem comes up, I say so openly and tell my players. Together we can always find a creative solution. It's simple: "DAMN This guy got a crit headshot, you probably will die to this random mook but its too early in the session. Are you ok with that? – ugh, fine, what if I use that NPC while we figure out if my character lives or dies. if he dies can I keep the NPC as character to avenge me? – sounds good." Done. Simple. Just talk.I play role playing games because they are flexible, if I wanted inflexible rules there's better games designed around that.
>>97526335Correct, if the GM screws up the story then its up to the players to fudge and get the story back on track.
>>97526379Is not about putting the story back on track, you autistic retard, is about enjoying the game. Again, is always for the benefit of the people involved in the game, not for some magical storypath, you can have this type of issues even more so in randomly generated dungeon made from tables.
>>97526335>Roleplaying is not adversarial.Incorrect, the adversaries in TTRPGs are the players and their own fun. A DM's job is to save players from themselves.
>>97518530I could never imagine being this retarded.DnD is not a competition you drooling fucking moron.
>>97527156>I could never imagine being this retarded.>DnD is not a competition you drooling fucking moron.What are you babbling about? DM fudges dice to improve the game so players fudge dice to improve the game. Both serving the same end, how does that turn it into a competition you sub-midwit?
>>97527283You keep avoiding the equality clause: If GM fudges to help the players, players should fudge to help the GM, making his bosses look cooler, last longer, maybe saying they fail that insight check they pass so the enemy can lead them to an ambush, etc.
>>97527336Nta but>the GM desperately keeps fudging dice and quantum ogre shit because didn't think about any deviation on the narrative>the players keep failing on purpose and ignore successful rolls because they mistaken the GM illusionism for actual choices and keep pushing for the cool (but inexistent) narrative path...would be quite amusing to watch
>>97526435Correct, if the players are not enjoying the game then they should fudge dice rolls until they are.
>>97518532spbp
>>97527868Then why don't they just DM too if they want to declare their dice rolls?
>>97518530Everyone who fudges is a massive faggot, end of story, no exceptions.You accept the outcome of the dice or you shouldn't have been rolling them at all.
>>97527607>>the GM desperately keeps fudging dice and quantum ogre shit because didn't think about any deviation on the narrative>>the players keep failing on purpose and ignore successful rolls because they mistaken the GM illusionism for actual choices and keep pushing for the cool (but inexistent) narrative pathMaybe 1 in 10,000 published fantasy novels are worth reading. There's a reason only a handful stand the test of time. But somehow the fat incel's fantasy world creates a "story", a "Narrative" that is more enjoyable than a game involving challenge and uncertainty.I can't understand how anyone enjoys live plays like Critical Role, to call them cringe and boring is a wild understatement. They combine the absolute worst elements of streaming slop and ttrpg's. But obviously it does appeal to certain Redditors. Out of morbid curiosity I watched Fat Colville's first liveplay at 2x speed when he was getting popular and launched his first kickstarter. Completely flabbergasted at how cringe and boring and idiotic it was. This is the first session mind you, and did the players get to play for one minute? Nope, it was a hour of Fat monologuing about his world's incredibly stupid and juvenile backstory. One of those stories so generic and forgettable, all I can recall is it had some kind of wildly incongruous sci-fi elements.To add another level of cringe, this was also shortly after Fat had made his infamous video critiquing Tolkien, calling him a poor writer and a bad storyteller with not enough action. ("um, like, why does JRRT say the candle was shining BRIGHTLY? Is there another way a candle can shine? Am I right, fellow Redditors?") The one thing I did enjoy about the livestream was hearing how squeaky his IRL voice is when he's not using whatever software he uses on his normal videos to deepen it several octaves, lol.
>>97528149Oh shit. It is Colville Stalker in the wild. You hate watch literally the full run through of his videos every week and continuously make threads to complain. At this point you have made hating this random guy such a large part of your personality and lifestyle that not only are you immediately recognizable on an anonymous website, but I doubt there would be anything left if you somehow got enough therapy to let the obsession go.At this point you should be thanking him for giving your life meaning.
>blatant bait>almost 200 repliesYou're better than this /tg/
>>97528614Nigga, we haven't been better than this since 2010. In quality, we are one step below a youtube comment section and that is how we fucking like it.
>>97528149>some kind of wildly incongruous sci-fi elementsDifferent anon here, the abpve gold core at the heart of your diatribe. I didn't continue watching his liveplay either as his dm style didn't suit me, but the above bit has now been a consistent facet in his works (outside of his book series....for the time being). It irks me so.
>>97528614make a better thread
>>97528644Make a better site.
>>97528647The site is not the problem and you know it. You are just lazy and prone to complaining.
TTRPG players are actually retarded. Do board gamers fudge dice? No. Do wargamers fudge dice? No. Do MTG players fudge cards? No. Do fucking smelly, disgusting YuGiOh players fudge cards? They will, but they get kicked out if they get caught. You're worse than children. TTRPGS will never be art, they will never be literature, and they will never be games. Because you can't even follow the simplest of rules.And guess what? Your "games," assuming you actually run any, aren't even fun. Your friends are just afraid of making you feel bad by pointing out what a mouthbreather you are, since they would figure out early on that you're a manchild who can't even handle one die roll not going your way. This is what attracts your kind to RPGs, after all.
>>97528662>"And furthermore..."
>>97528662Aren't most if not all of your example competitive and have symmetrical board states for both players?
>>97528651Imagine drinking the koolaid so hard that you can look at 4chan and go, "Nothing wrong here."
>>97528697SHUT UP DWEEBO. You are just mad that I am super cool and have a hundred girlfriedns.
>>97528688>>97528697Your brains are too mushy to form arguments now because you spent too much of your lives talking to soulless inanimate objects like dice, your waifu pillow, and other D&D players. And even they know you're full of shit.
>>97528803>gets caught in an apples to oranges comparison, realizes it's stupid and immediately sidetracks into insults as a fig leaf over his shame.You know, you can just say good point and move on. Just because you are on 4chan, doesn't mean you are required to go full 4chan brain.
>>97528803Anon, I don't fudge my dice. I just think you're trying way too hard to appear more macho despite the fact I can smell the flab in your fingers while you're typing.
>>97528854If anons could learn and grow they wouldn't still be here.
>>97524184Thankfully not everyone plays with faggots like youWhy are you even having combat if it doesn't even matter, just skip it and say you won. There is no shame in open roleplay just keep it away from people who actually want to play a game
>>97528920Anon. You weren't invited to their table. I doubt you are invited to any table.
>>97528920You can run the games whoever you want, whoever that same statement its also true for everyone else, you could move on and stop being triggered about what other people do on their tables.
>>97528492>Oh shit. It is Colville Stalker in the wild.Shut up Colville.
>>97528958Bruh. Retards like this can't even handle want other people do in their own bedrooms without feeling the need to stick their nose in. The idea that they could just not bitch and moan about how other people play pretend is inconceivable. They just aren't wired for that. They will shout impotently about how everyone should do and think just like them until the day they drop dead of congestive heart failure and force their family to pretend they were a good person at the funeral.
>>97528977See what I mean, /tg/. Now he thinks Colville is talking to him.
>>97528958I don't give a shit what people do at their tables, it only becomes a problem when I enter a game and see faggots fudging dice. Then I go to my local tibetan gardening forum and see you niggers croon about how ackshully this is a good thing because you are faggots that don't like to play games and want to instead waste fucking time pretending to roll dice then ignoring the result. This has become commonplace enough that I now need to vet GMs who display this niggerbrained trend.Please, tell me, what single fucking benefit is there to wasting time not playing the game instead of just doing open roleplay. Then you don't waste any time rolling dice and I don't have to call you a faggot for not playing the game
>>97529346>I joined a game and they were playing in ways I didn't like and called me a fag when I ordered them to change.Fascinating.
>>97529005>See what I mean, /tg/. Now he thinks Colville is talking to him.I saw a clip of Colville that was unironically meant to show him "properly running a game">Colville: you march down the corridor (seriously sounded like a space ship even though they were playing D&D). Gimme a roll. (no explanation of what they're rolling for)>Bewildered Player #1 rolls. "uh, 13">DM: You spring a trap (minute long description of some complicated mechanical trap). You take 10 damage.>Player #2. "um, shouldn't we have got a roll to avoid damage or something?">Colville is annoyed but quickly stifles it, remembering he's on camera. "Sure, sure" he says huffily. Gimme a roll.>Player #1 "Uh... what am I rolling.">DM: "Just roll and I'll tell you" (this is the part that made me LOL, just the way he said it).>Player #1: "I roll 10.">DM: You take full damage>Player #2: I want to roll Perception to search for more traps.What an immersive game.
>>97529514The best part of Modern Reddit D&D is how it can be adapted to any genre without any changes.Fantasy:>You're in the Tomb of Horrors>I roll Perception every round looking for traps until I find something>Ok you roll a 16 and find all the traps and get the treasureCall of Cthulhu>You're in Innsmouth>I roll Perception to figure out the mystery of what's going on in this town>Ok you roll a 16 and realize these people are part fish-people who are breeding with Old Ones from another dimensionSuperheroes>You're in Gotham City>I roll Perception to think up a solution to defeat Dr Doom>Ok, you rolled a 16 so you figure out a plan and beat him
>>97529574In my experience as a GM sometimes players will specifically ask for this shit.>Can I roll intelligence to figure out something?It's insane. Sometimes they tell me that it's because they don't want to metarole by figuring out something that their dumb character shouldn't be capable of, to which I always just tell them that dumping INT doesn't stop them from trying something it just means there's a lower chance of success.
>>97529597I usually just use the Int roll to give them a hint on what they can do if they're really that stumped. I never outright tell them the solution.
I love how op categorically ignores any suggestion of actually being the DM to continue his weird schizo tirades.
>>97529514Why did you reply to me with that? What made you think I would be interested in your favorite youtuber?
>>97529514Harmontown followed the rules better and that was a premade story with guest characters
>>97518530Playoid hands typed this post.Don't like the DM fudging dice while you're not allowed to?Run your own game and set your own preferred rules.Oh wait, you won't, because you're playoid scum.
When I fudge the dice, no one will ever find out. I do not encourage this at all. I roll mostly out in the open but no one is going to die in my game to a 1% chance of an embolism even though it does happen
>>97529819Why does your game have a 1% chance to die in the first place that makes you feel the need to cheat to counteract it?
>>97529854It doesn't. I'm just saying I think making everyone when they wake in the morning to roll to see if they had a heart attack/aneurysm/whatever is asinine af. Yes, it happens in real life but I'm here to play a game, not be dungeonsimulator 3000
>>97518550Every time I've been in a group trying to play by a book it was a fucking shit show( and not the fun kind). Having an evolving story is the best way to play and a DM who can eventually play in his story to the freestyle is the best because you get the best of what everyone wants
>>97529890>play by a bookdo you mean>play by the bookfollow the rules>play by a bookmaking a prewritten story?
>>97529905there's more than one guide book, nogames.
>>97528614>You're better than this /tg/Not true.
>>97529866>I think making everyone when they wake in the morning to roll to see if they had a heart attack/aneurysm/whatever is asinine af Rolls that don't matter are asinine too. If something sucks, you should cut it out instead of pretending to do it.
>>97529985We're talking about fudging die rolls, not useless rolls but I agree with you
>>97529652Cause he has no intention of actually solving his issue, he just wants /tg/ to validate his schizo rantings because he has no games to play
>>97529866Then... don't do that? Why do fudgefags try to justify cheating with such absurd fake scenarios.
What kind of feckless, limp-wristed cuckold gets bullied into not using a screen?What the DM does is his own business, plain and simple. Roll dice for no reason, fudge rolls and thresholds, follow the results without mercy, ignore rolls and use your best judgement - whatever you need to do to produce a fun game. You can't do your job as a DM without a layer of opacity between yourself and the rest of the table.
>>97529819>When I fudge the dice, no one will ever find out. I do not encourage this at all. I roll mostly out in the open but no one is going to die in my game to a 1% chance of an embolism even though it does happen"It's amazing how much leftist discourse is just them pretending not to understand things, thus making discourse impossible"
>>97518530DMs who fudge their rolls are almost invariably not playing—or running—the game correctly. The PHB explicitly tells you that the DM tells you what’s going on, you tell the DM how your character acts, and then the DM tells you how the world—the environment, the objects, and the creatures or NPCs—reacts to your PC’s actions. And, that the DM _MAY_ ask for a roll if the outcome your actions is in question.A DM who calls for, or makes, a roll that they then must fudge to maintain story continuity, is failing to understand that they were under no obligation to make the roll in the first place. If you want X to happen, then it happens. You don’t roll to see if it happens, hoping against hope, with your fingers crossed, and then, when it “fails”, fudge the dice so that you instead succeed, anyway.Fudging dice is just stupid, and you ought to have known better than to make the roll in the first place.
>>97530978You saw that quote once and now you use It for everything even when It doesn't make even a small amount of sense, your brain is fascinating.
>>97530978>>When I fudge the dice, no one will ever find out. I do not encourage this at all. I roll mostly out in the open but no one is going to die in my game to a 1% chance of an embolism even though it does happenGreat argument. Yes, the well-known monthly "do you die from a heart attack" roll that's been in D&D since the white box. Good job pretending not to understand.
>>97530846Woosh
>>97531639AD&D literally had you check monthly for disease and parasites
>>97530978You should try crying about it on 4chan
>>97531639Way to miss the point, nimrod
>>97531639Nigga, you are on /tg/. We don't give a FUCK about D&D here and we all now think you are a faggot for bringing it up.
>>97531058You're right, its just better to just be vague about difficulty numbers and modifiers and decide them on a whim.
>>97529346>Get angry about a completely unrelated group he's not part of>pikachu_shock_face when he comes to /tg/ to whine about it and gets called a retard
>>97531838I care about d&d. I'm 55 howeversobeittho
>>97532030He literally just gave the answer. Instead of having the players roll and then deciding it was actually a DC of 2, just tell them they did it. It's literally that easy. Stop rolling dice when you don't want a random outcome.
>>97532188I can do both.
