in fairness, if he didn't do what he done did, humanity would probably have been even worse off.

>>97530555
Would they have though? Chaos wouldn't be nearly as powerful if it weren't for him, the Tyranids wouldn't be invading, and fewer Necrons would be awoken.

>>97530453
So, were Jesus, Buhdda, Ghanna, etc, just minor chaos gods then? By killing off worship of the little ones, (theists are gonna believe in something) he ended up strenthening the current ones?

>>97530608
i figured he meant empowering the chaos gods relative to the other entities of the warp and subjecting them to an attack on multiple fronts. jesus and the buddha vs. khorne 2v1, that kinda thing

>>97530608
>Jesus, Buhdda, Ghanna, etc, just minor chaos gods then?
They're either pseudonyms of the big four or greater daemons. The mechanicum worshipped the omnissiah, but there was no nascent omniscian warp entity. There was vashtor though.

>>97530608
I thought Jesus, Buddha etc was big E trying to get humanity to do the right thing through religion. The reason he exterminated it is that no matter what he said (be peaceful, collaborate, restrain your impulses) people just started burning those with a near identical religion. Which is why he eventually grew so distrustful of them and decided it needed to go.
His writers were not smart people I'll give you that.

>>97530453
Post your fully painted army. Then I'll tell you the truth.

>>97530453
In his defense he lived for 50k years and saw what all of that did to humanity and the warp, he might be off but chances are his arguments are pretty compelling

>>97530919
chances are the omnissiah is the void dragon of Mars

>>97530608
in fulgrim its stated every god humanity had is dead

>>97531099
But BL-slop is not Canon though

>>97531105
BL was always canon, there are novel exerpts in the 3e codex

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>>97530453
If not for him Chaos would be a nonissue. I like how ironic it is. His cruel and dysfunctional Imperium feeds Chaos and he gifted Chaos Gods with powerful armies, champions and generals. Warp is a reflection of realspace, but you can't fix realspace now, you will be destroyed if you attempt to do so, so it will eternally stay shit, cruel and awful and so further empower Chaos

>>97531503
>If not for him Chaos would be a nonissue
Do people keep forgetting that the Eldar managed to become so insanely degenerate that they orgied their way into creating an entire Chaos god? The Warp was already a horrific fucked up hellscape well before the Emperor was spawned.

>Warp is a reflection of realspace, but you can't fix realspace now, you will be destroyed if you attempt to do so, so it will eternally stay shit, cruel and awful and so further empower Chaos
This is why I hate chaosfags. "Hurr durr everything you do empowers mighty kay-oss, we win eternally lolololololol". It's so fucking boring.

>>97530453
>Creates a government entirely centered around him and a handful of superhumans and then loses half of them to Chaos
The government wasn't specifically based around the Primarchs, the odds are that he was gonna fucking murder all the Primarchs after the Crusade was over, or put them in fucked situations (like plopping Magnus on the Golden Throne). Part of the reason he fucked over the Word Bearers was because they were taking too much of an interest in the governance of their conquered worlds after they conquered them, which was slowing down their advance.

>>97531726
>Do people keep forgetting that the Eldar managed to become so insanely degenerate that they orgied their way into creating an entire Chaos god? The Warp was already a horrific fucked up hellscape well before the Emperor was spawned.
And it had no real ability to impact realspace until he handed over his armies to it

>>97530453
TRUTH NUKE

>>97532582
>the odds are that he was gonna fucking murder all the Primarchs after the Crusade was over
This seems the commonly held belief among the fandom but I can't fathom it. Supposedly the Custodes were designed specifically to kill Astartes and would have been the ones to do it but come on, Astartes outnumber Custodes by like a billion to one, I don't care how strong a single Custodian is there's no way they win that

>>97532595
No you fucking mongoloid, that meant an entire new breed of demons were coming out to eat the universe, you absolute fucking knobgobbler

>>97530453
probably because he knew how humans act to an autistic degree, while having a pretty good understanding of human history. everything he did was probably intentional. why would he be so shitty to lorgar and then just fuck off so he could VERY PREDICTABLY fall to chaos? big e was on a mission to make himself a god of absolute order, he knew how totalitarian societies deify their leaders even in atheistic states. the dude did everything he could for him to end up on that throne.

>>97533332
It's not hard, dude
>Order legions onto to different planets
>Have the navy Exterminatus them
>Custodes do mop up work

You don't need to go to war with your own armies if you're still in command, he would've done them the same way he did the thunder warriors.

>>97531048
That hinges on the idea that people get smarter as they get older, as opposed to the Emperor's plan being kinda stupid because he never really grew beyond feudalism because "it was good enough back in MY day" thinking.

>>97533356
Daemons don’t last long in realspace

>>97533356
The problem is that isn't how it fucking works, anon.
The Eldar created a new chaos god and a new flavor of demons, true. But demons are, on their own, fucking useless. The chaos god have infinity demons, and not a single one of them can cross over into the material world on their own. They need mortals to summon them, or rare phenomenon like warp storms, or a psyker to explode, etc.
Prior to the Horus Heresy and Chaos getting free armies, the list of mortals in the real world able and motivated to summon chaos demons was almost nothing. The fact that Slanessh existed didn't matter, because they were locked behind the door like everyone else.
The Emperor allowing his army of superhumans and their retainer armies to fall to chaos gave chaos thousands of space marines and millions of human followers that they could then use to send out and summon chaos wherever they needed to be. Without these human traitors, Chaos can only leak through into the material world in tiny amounts.

>>97533356
Pretty much this >>97533532
There was a planet of snake xenos that had a Slaaneshi demon sword, but they weren't being a scourge on the galaxy.
That took a primarch and his legion showing up and taking the sword to then become a massive fucking problem for everyone.

>>97533532
>>97533635
Terran Humanity was just the first polity to try for a big push since the dark night or whatever it's called ended, and they were only able to do that because because Big E had been alive the entire time plotting to do it. Just because chaos or any of the smaller polities hadn't getting their shit together enough to start spreading, doesn't mean that they wouldn't have.

Big E's main problem was making the Primarchs at all in the first place, it seemed like a really awful idea that they didn't need.

>>97533532
Yeah, Slaneesh meant that the Eldar were doomed to suffer after death because they had ruined their own afterlife, leading to the soul stone dependence and the dark eldar. Humanity lost access to FTL for some time, and lost control of their thinking machines, but the Emperor didn’t calm the warp, time did, and his role in the cleanup of the Abominable Intelligences was minor at best.

Everything after the Crusade can be blamed on Big Retard Emps and his diabolicism and sorcery.

>>97533667
>Big E's main problem was making the Primarchs at all in the first place, it seemed like a really awful idea that they didn't need.

Right? Like, what benefit did the Primachs *actually* provide? Clearly he didn't need them to command the space marine legions, he was able to kick off the great crusade just fine without them to kick around the galaxy until he stumbled on the primarchs one by one anyway.
As far as I can tell, the Primarchs provided nothing but a point of vulnerability. The legions were compelled to follow their primarch, so when the primarchs started going stupid/crazy they dragged their legions along with them.
The ONLY Primarch that seems to have a legitimate reason to exist is Magnus, who Emps planned on sitting on the Golden Throne, but that doesn't explain why he needed any of the others or why he would bother sending Magnus off to be a commander of armies or rule a planet or anything else.
Like, imagine if Magnus actually just fucking died out on crusade. His ship got blasted by a vortex missile or something. The Emperor's entire plan would be completely fucked because he sent off the one guy he needed to keep at home off to war.

>>97533667
They might have, but they'd also just be whatever aliens or cultists were able to coordinate well enough to try their own hand at conquest, rather than a genetically engineered army of super soldiers to do exactly that. Any effort at doing so is going to be slower and more prone to failure.

Keep in mind that those random cultists also have to contend with the possibility of some Eldar Farseer getting a glimpse of their success and deciding to snuff it out early.

>>97533767
I think that the Primarchs were required as patterns for the legions. The space marines were derived from that project, and in a no primary AU, the marines would be by necessity very different and perhaps less capable things.

>>97533867
If that was the case, though, and they were just an intermediary step for creating gene seed for the legions, why give them the command of the armies after being found? Indeed, why search of any of them in the first place for any reason other than to capture them (if you need them to make more legions) or destroy them (to prevent your work from being stolen).
Again, only Magnus had a non-military function that we know of. The rest were just big strong fighty mans, or occasionally pretty good strategists.

>>97530453
>His name?
>Epstein

>>97530919
Who is Buddha's Chaos identity?

>>97533922
You’re right that it’s only sensible from a Doylist perspective and it makes Big E look retarded from a Wattsonian perspective, but if the retards at BL we’re smart enough to keep a story Bible, I think you could build a sensible purpose for all of them, the problem is that whatever goal you create, the plan is off the rails as soon as two have been censured or Agron gets the nails implanted and Emp’s failure to adapt also makes him look like a retard.

>>97533945
Malal

>>97530555
Fanon

>>97530596
Orks are still a problem.

>>97530453
The need for total control of humanity makes sense given that humanity is becoming more psychically active and even small pockets of humanity left alone are easy bait for chaos. Sure, everyone likes to point out the interrex, but in doing so they leave out that for every world ruled by a reasonably enlightened society encountered you have dozens of places even worse than the Imperium is. There's an old story about how a Keeper of Secrets was almost able to ascend to godhood off just the worship of a handful of human star systems which had never been contacted by the Imperium.
Wiping out aliens, or at least psychically active ones which interact with the warp, also makes sense if the ultimate goal is fighting chaos. Otherwise there's always the chance of one of those races doing a Fall of the Eldar 2.0.
No the plan is not perfect and the Emperor made a bunch of mistakes along the way but the basic premises of uniting humanity under a single banner and eliminating rival xenos empires/psychically active races has a sound if cold logic to it.

>>97534071
The problem with your plan there is that if that is the goal of the Imperium, the Great Crusade actually makes no sense.

The optimal path towards getting humanity past the hump of chaos vulnerability and ascent to a psychic master race that can tell Chaos to fuck off is to bunker down on Earth and let all humans everywhere else in the galaxy die. Or, if they run the risk of thriving, go from world to world across the galaxy and murder every single non-Earth born human in a galaxy wide purge of humanity. This has the side benefit of removing the majority of Chaos's easy food supply, dramatically weakening chaos and buying you plenty of time for step 2 of the plan.

Then, when the human population of the galaxy has been reduced to what can fit onto a single planet, you return to Earth and focus on breeding humans like a big farming sim game until you get your extra rare special shiny psychic humans that are too OP for chaos to ever threaten them again. You wait for these psychic supermen to achieve stable population growth, and then grow back out from Earth from there to repopulate the galaxy exclusively with psychic supermen.

Simply conquering existing human worlds out there just allows the maximum number of humans to be vulnerable to feeding chaos or turning into a demon portal to exist, leaving a chaotic and disorganized mess that cannot possibly be intentionally bred into the master race that the Emperor says he wants. Worse, even if such a psychic super race DID come into existence in a Imperium of a million worlds, there is no viable way for that to propagate to the rest of humanity. You just have two competing versions of humanity, one that is awesome and one that cosmically makes the universe worse by continuing to exist.

>>97534071
>but the basic premises of uniting humanity under a single banner and eliminating rival xenos empires/psychically active races has a sound if cold logic to it.
‘twould make more sense to try and ally with as many non-chaos aligned psychically active xenos as possible rather than kill them, or at least forcibly integrate them into your society
why play with just one genetic line when you could be running multiple eugenics programs on different species in the hopes that one of them is the lucky one to produce john mcexplodeschaosforever?

>>97531121
No, its not.
Gathering Storm: Fall of Cadia trumps every BL novel about this event.

>>97534144
Ah yes, in a very hostile galaxy full of roving bands of hungry things the best path to survival is... to put all your eggs in one basket, with only a single planet's resources (or system's, if we're generous) to defend that basket. Oh, and your plan to weaken chaos is the terror, rage and anguish of untold billion souls as you consign their souls to the warp in a galaxy-wide genocide.
You know, just because the supermarket-bargain-bin-authors BL has can't write the Emperor as intelligent (you really should be reading Dune instead, all six books) it doesn’t mean you're necessarily any smarter.

>>97534326
Consolidating the Imperium to one system makes it more defensible, not less. If you have the resources to carry out the galactic purge, and you park that armada of a million ships in the solar system, roving bands of orks are absolutely not your problem.

If you are worried about the anguish of people dying in war feeding chaos, then the current state of affairs in 40k is objectively worse. 10,000 years of only war spanning the entire galaxy in a continuous feed of turmoil > 1 single war of extermination one world at a time and then its over.

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>>97533945
Khorne

>>97530555
>humanity would probably have been even worse off
Not really and clearly no since lots of human civilizations made it through the Age of Strife just fine, and only got destroyed because they made a mistake of trusting the Imperium and the Emperor.
Or they got destroyed just because they didn't agree and didn't it was a good idea to join a totalitarian, authoritarian empire that is ruled by psychich god-king who is so far removed from humanity that you can't even be sure if you could even call him human.

>>97534053
It would be a lot easier to deal with one problem than several.

The Emperor actually did the best thing possible for mankind by creating Roboute Guilliman then dying and leaving him in charge

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>>97536408
>Not really and clearly no since lots of human civilizations made it through the Age of Strife just fine, and only got destroyed because they made a mistake of trusting the Imperium and the Emperor.
>Or they got destroyed just because they didn't agree and didn't it was a good idea to join a totalitarian, authoritarian empire that is ruled by psychich god-king who is so far removed from humanity that you can't even be sure if you could even call him human.
True, at the end of the day, the Emperor destroyed more human worlds, cultures and civilizations than the forces of chaos.

>>97530453
Humanity, if it had not been unified by the Emperor, would not have survived against the Orks like the Beast and other xenos that gave the Imperium such a brutal struggle. Chaos would still have influenced them as well.
But the Emperor made a mistake by eliminating the idea of possible human Warp gods that could have served as a sink for the Chaos Gods powers
>But he can’t, because the Warp is too dangerous now
The Warp is immense, and Tau’va (the tau god) exists.
>But the Eldar gods
They did a great job for 60 million years, which is orders of magnitude more impressive than anything the Emperor ever achieved.

>>97537694
>True, at the end of the day, the Emperor destroyed more human worlds, cultures and civilizations than the forces of chaos.
All for a plan that wasn't even very good. Even if the Emperor had gotten everything he wanted, the outcome of it doesn't seem that positive.
Like, having webway access would be neat and all, but its not like it saved the Eldar.

>>97537778
The Beast was not a particularly large threat, an Imperium that had been devastated by the Horus Heresy was able to handle them just fine without any serious casualties on their part, so it’s safe to assume the Beast would’ve been taken out pretty easily even without the Imperium.

>>97531503
lol

>>97534326
>just because the supermarket-bargain-bin-authors BL has can't write the Emperor as intelligent
I think one of the worst things to have come out of the BL is the notion that the Emperor was incompetent. It's like some kind of schism within the 40K community where some people think he fucked up enough times that it discredits the entire mission of the Great Crusade.

Look at the Heresy. Look at the speed with which Chaos turned Space Marine chapters, entire systems, and the Ad Mech against Terra. Staying in the Sol system would be suicide like you said. The moment the warp storms abated the Crusade had to move fast to take the human worlds and secure them before Chaos can turn them against humanity. The Heresy is proof that humanity was never in any sort of position anybody can call safe and the authoritarianism of present 40K was obviously derived from the authoritarianism of the Emperor to keep humanity in check until science and learning could be used to give planets and systems some kind of self-protection.

>>97540685
Even if all had gone to plan, and he builds the webway and ascends humanity into a psyker-species, all he's really done is get them to the level of pre-fall Eldar. Which isn't a bad position to be in, but it's also not foolproof.

The webway was meant to rely on Magnus to keep it functional, and we've already seen that the Emperor struggles to manage the primarchs as people. Even in some alternate timeline where the primarchs weren't transported all across the galaxy and the Emperor was able to raise them, all it takes is Magnus getting bored/curious/tricked, and then the whole webway project is up in smoke anyway.
And trying to have humanity as psykers while ensuring all of them are well-trained enough to not explode into demons, but also not ambitious enough to try to dabble in sorcery, requires a level of oversight that Big E is also historically terrible with. He couldn't prevent half of his own sons from falling to chaos, but he's going to be able to keep an eye on trillions of psykers?

His plan works if he's able to rely on everyone doing exactly as he tells them without being micro-managed, and chaos was actually weakened by the purge of religions and couldn't interfere.

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>>97530453
The final redpill about the Emperor is that he blundered into enacting the will of the Chaos Gods the moment he embarked on the Golden Path. The entire thing was a sham from day one, Chaos baited him with the promise of a perfect future that never existed. The power he stole from them was a poison pill from the start, always intended to corrupt him into the Dark King. And the same tools he needed to bring his ideal future about (Primarchs, Astartes legions) were the exact tools that Chaos planned to use to ensure it would never happen, and in fact are the very tools that have cemented Chaos's inevitable victory and the doom of mankind by giving it billions of loyal followers willing to die for a chance at immortality and daemonhood.

>>97541071
>but he's going to be able to keep an eye on trillions of psykers
Yes. Because that's exactly what the Inquisition is doing right now albiet imperfectly. The Inquisition represents a fractional representation of what the Emperor intended. The Eldar simply did not police themselves because they were in fact superior - they did not know what they were growing in the Warp. The Emperor obviously does not have that blindsight.

If the Webway was functional it would mean immediate reinforcement against any Chaos incursion. It would mean relief appears in hours rather than years or decades, meaning rather than losing entire continents or planets to Chaos you lose merely a few cities or maybe a nation.

If the Emperor had won, it would mean manufacturing efficiencies being maintained because science and learning is upheld and promoted. It would mean secure supply chains and sufficient military and naval assets to defend planets and systems. It would mean gene seed facilities would be many and plentiful for as many Space Marines as necessary to even have them permanently stationed on every planet.

Humanity is stagnant right now. If it didn't have any capabilities like the Inquisition it would be losing. If the Emperor had survived the Heresy humanity would be flourishinig, easily. In fact, the ONLY thing that needed to be different is the Emperor surviving. Everything could have gone down the exact same way except the Emperor continues to lead and humanity would be far better than right now. The Inquisition would be homogeneous and streamlined with zero infighting or conflicting philosophy - it would be in a word efficient, and it's already pretty fucking efficient already without the Emperor.

>>97541229
>If the Emperor had won, it would mean manufacturing efficiencies being maintained because science and learning is upheld and promoted
Not really since he hitched his ship to the Mechanicus and by the time of the Heresy it had grown into the Imperium like a tumour.

>>97537778
>Humanity, if it had not been unified by the Emperor, would not have survived against the Orks like the Beast and other xenos that gave the Imperium such a brutal struggle.
Nah, the xenos threats were all survivable. The only threat the Emperor cared about was Chaos. Everything else during the Great Crusade was a minor setback at most, just more xenos empires that would flare out and be destroyed by their rivals or just self-destruction like the Eldar. Yes, including the Orks at Ullanor and the Rangdan. Dealing with those threats, however, was necessary for the Emperor to achieve his actual goal, which was to unite humanity so that he could undo its out of control genetic drift and purge it of the mutations that had caused the Age of Strife in the first place, which was psykers who were unable to control their powers

>>97531726
>The Warp was already a horrific fucked up hellscape well before the Emperor was spawned.
Except the Emperor (and Horus) are the ones who destabilized the tranquil Warp when they dueled on the Vengeful Spirit, sending all the combined emotions of the Siege of Terra (rage, despair, and hope) back in time to the beginning of the universe to create the original 3 Chaos Gods.

>>97541262
This franchise is becoming kind of incestuous isn't it? Feels like it's looping on itself. Not only is the Horus Heresy given increasing focus and importance, everything retroactively is about the Horus Heresy.

>>97541244
You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. The Mechanicus built everything during the Emperor's time, how the fuck would they have been able to make all those innovations if they were completely slaves to orthodoxy as they are today. Only because the Emperor died did innovation grind to a half throughout the Imperium.

>>97541229
>The Inquisition represents a fractional representation of what the Emperor intended.
Maybe the Emperor should have intended on having people watching out for corruption sooner rather than later.
>The Emperor obviously does not have that blindsight.
Aside from how he was completely blind to what his sons were doing.
>If the Webway was functional it would mean immediate reinforcement against any Chaos incursion.
Any chaos incursion except for daemons whispering to Magnus, you mean.
>It would mean gene seed facilities would be many and plentiful for as many Space Marines as necessary to even have them permanently stationed on every planet.
Oh good, because space marines have never fallen to chaos and could never take over a planet in a matter of hours.

>Humanity is stagnant right now.
Yeah, you're looking at how terrible things are when Big E's plan failed, and extrapolating that to mean that things would be perfect if his plan hadn't failed.
Would it be better? Sure, but that's a very low bar.

>>97541274
>everything retroactively is about the Horus Heresy
The Heresy taking center stage was easily the best thing to happen to the setting. The Heresy is a clear point where everything went to shit for humanity.

If anything at all, it's GW's fault for not exploring ANY of the events pre-Heresy or post-Heresy. Because right now all there is is: the Emperor appears, Great Crusade a bit, HERESY, nothing, present 40K. The lore has covered maybe one year's worth of events. It's been 7000 fucking years since the Heresy and before that there was 35,000 years of human history.

Everything revolving around the Heresy is because GW has done fucking nothing except write about the Heresy.

>>97541294
I don't feel like continuing this conversation with you. It's not that you're wrong it's that you're offering no charity.

>>97541342
The charity I'd offer is that the Emperor isn't incompetent. He wouldn't have gotten as far as he did if he was. But likewise, if he didn't have any flaws, the Heresy wouldn't have happened at all.
He clearly already had oversights in his plan from the portions we've seen of it, so there's no reason to assume his other remaining plans were somehow free from similar oversights. "What if he gets betrayed in the hypothetical future?" is a legitimate question when we've already seen him betrayed in the non-hypothetical past.

1. All human religions were Chaos
Catholicism was Green Chaos
Islam was Red Chaos
Hinduism was Purple Chaos
Taoism was Blue Chaos
2. All of those human civilizations were Chaos.
The Auretians were Red Chaos
The Diasporex were Purple Chaos
The Astranii were Green Chaos
Interex was Blue Chaos.
3. All of those allied xenos were Chaos
4. Smaller more localized governments have all been Chaos
5. Militarized Chaos is organized and thus fundamentally altered to no longer be meaningfully chaotic

>>97541393
>everything was Chaos
so is the Imperium by definition. Founded by a pawn of Chaos who is destined to become the 5th Chaos God, who shoved 20 minor Chaos gods into engineered human bodies, and gave each of them an army of pseudo-daemons by creating augment organs from their genetic codes

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>Everyone who tries to use the power of Chaos against Chaos is a fool. I've killed hundreds of people who made that mistake and became nothing more than slaves to darkness, corrupted by their own hubris and good intentions that dragged them straight to hell
>Except me! I know better than everyone else, so I'll steal the power of Chaos and wield it against Chaos. I am a genius!
>Everything's gone to shit. If only I had seen this coming. OH NO!
The entire HH series condensed into a single post. You're welcome btw

>>97530453
>christian god
floods the earth
>jewish god
eats babies
>islamic god
rapes babies
>asian gods
will flood the earth eat babies and rape babies
>indian gods
will start climbing out of every pile of feces and turn everyone indian
>african gods
will make everyone taller faster and have bigger cocks

>>97541538
yes thats literally directly stated in the lore like 600 times

>>97541594
Yeah, Emperor is basically "Nah, I know better: The character" once analysed this situation.

>>97530453
The Emperor did nothing wrong, all that greentext bs is anti-Imperiun propaganda created by the Chaos God of awful-writing.

>>97543013
I choose to accept your post as 100% lore accurate because it's more fun than all the other shit

>>97543013
No, cope.

>>97540685
It's been a while since I've read any Hours heresy books, but I always kind of thought about it like this:

The Emperor's precognition is imperfect, so when he's created he knows that something is coming in the future involving chaos, but not the specific nature of it. But he has endless time, so he starts with subtle manipulation, thinking he can Bene Gesserit humanity. But he subtle touch keeps failing over and over and over again, up until the Long Night. At that point he's like "fuck, shit, it's been tens of thousands of years, the subtle hand isn't working anymore, I have to step up, time is actually starting to run out." So he starts building his forces for the wars of unification, introduces himself to the galaxy, and starts moving with a firm hand. But, no matter what he does, there's still this big darkness in the future, getting closer, and nothing he's doing seems to change it.

That sort of, to a degree, explains some of the seemingly stupid shit he does. He knows time is running out and he wasted too much time, so he's taking more and more chances and risks because of that.

Mind you, the actual writing doesn't make this clear at all and EMPS comes off as less of a character and more of a plot device that is completely retarded sometimes and totally all knowing at others. The real right answer was that HH was a massive mistake, the whole thing should have been left in the midst of legend, but nerds love to ruin the things they enjoy by demanding that the creators fill in every single corner of the map.

>>97543013
>The Emperor did nothing wrong, all that greentext bs is anti-Imperiun propaganda created by the Chaos God of awful-writing.
So you're saying that all 40k lore is wrong?

>>97530453
>Destroys all human religions
Why is this rarely emphasized? It's a great irony that his state atheist regime become more fanatically zealous than the religions it opposed

>>97543013
BASED

>>97534413
>parking the entire great crusade fleet in sol system
>supplying said fleet purely from sol system

My guy they will be eating each other within days, you cannot even remotely support that kind of standing army/navy with a single planetary system. Let alone keep the civilians alive and fed too.

>>97530453
What did you expect from stone age moron idolizing bronze age warlords and euphoric atheism?
It's pretty clear that the Emperor is an idiot who after living 38.000 years didn't grow much wiser, just more efficient in his moronity.

>>97530453
Just like atheism he was too busy tearing down religion instead of thinking of a replacement to fill the void.

>>97545290
I haven't ready any Black Library books in a very long time so I can't reliably say I learned anything meaningful about the Emperor. I seriously don't even agree or remember if he was actually had precognition. I still think today he had farsight - he was able to see any event happening at the moment like Farseers. It's easy to predict the Imperial Navy or Tyrannids are coming to fuck your Craftworld if you see their movements coming years or months away. And like most warp-derived powers, warp-powers like the Tyranids or Chaos gods can cloud vision directly into a space like onto a planet but the seer can obviously see the darkness in their vision and know that something not-good is obscuring it. But I could be wrong about that. Regardless I don't feel the guy is incompetent. He remains a single consciousness and can only think on one thing at a time. He can't "predict" Horus' fall or Magnus because he was reading Eldar libraries or shit in his visions. The way he reacts to both events is rational for anybody who knows what Chaos is capable of and he wouldn't need farsight to know that burning that shit without question is the only way to prevent the infection from spreading.

It's not the Emperor's fault the infection spread beyond his control. He was facing magic and all he had was science. He was facing magic that was physically infectious and infectious to psyker souls if they simply looked at Chaos symbols. You steel your Space Marines with orthodoxy and vacuum sealed suits and burn everything; and preserve no record of the things you burn because you can't let people preserve anything because a drawing of a Chaos symbol can fuck everything up. A fucking nick from a tainted knife got Horus and a voodoo ritual ruined him forever - that's all it took. Coffee with Chaos.

The balls for people to suggest the Emperor was stupid just means they don't understand the sort of threat Chaos is, which includes the stupid fucking authors.

>>97530453
I recently re-read The Last Church and holy shit the Emperor is an idiot and a thug.

He's a dullard who considers himself a genius. Uriah was right to call him out on his bullshit.

>>97550080
The problem with the Last Church is that Graham McNeil self-admittedly knows fucking nothing about theology, apologetics, or any actual philosophical arguments for or against religion. So the entire argument between the Emperor of Uriah comes off as a college freshman's first theological debate. It's a bad book written by someone who should at a minimum have done some reading about the subject matter he was trying to depict, but should really have consulted someone about it while writing.

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>>97537778
>The Warp is immense, and Tau’va (the tau god) exists.
The Greater Goods!

>>97550080
>>97551708
It really fits his character as depicted everywhere else tbqh

>>97552304
Surprisingly modest melons for blueberryfag art, proportionately speaking

>>97552332
She's a growing Goddess, please understand!

>>97530453
You don’t understand, this was all necessary because.. because it just is okay??

>>97530453
Vast majority of human beings in 40k live absurdly miserable lives where they are quite literally worked to the bone in 16 hour long Terran day shifts and eat garbage, and this lifestyle is enforced by Imperial Doctrine itself. The Emperor fucked over most of humanity by making the core of the Lex “obey the Emperor at all costs”.

>>97530925
Lol those religions are the opposite of advancing humanity

>>97552332
>Surprisingly modest melons for blueberryfag art, proportionately speaking
What I'm hearing is to make them bigger.

>>97541319
The Horus Heresy taking center stage is why 40k has been so cancerous for a while. It is now all about marine drama and the same characters fighting all over the galaxy, it has become Marvel capeshit drivel, but all is fair in love and war and selling ever more marine crap to marine paypigs.

It was far better when the Heresy was an age of myth of which few accurate records remained, and Guilliman remained suspended in stasis, perhaps slowly healing? but never certainly.
When the Emperor may have been actually alive, or may have just been a corpse with brain death that still had some psychic presence in the Warp.

>>97530453
Absolute tourist take
>Destroys all human religions thus ensuring humanity would be left with no benevolent warp entities and empowering the Chaos gods
There were no benevolent warp entities.

>Destroys countless human civilizations who were thriving on their own and wipes out their tech and resources
Becuase they were tainted by Chaos or Xenos.

>Destroys countless allied xenos thus ensuring that humanity has nobody left but enemies surrounding them
There are no allied Xenos, only those which are patient enough to not predate on humanity yet.

>Creates a government entirely centered around him and a handful of superhumans and then loses half of them to Chaos
The government was wholly focused on the baseline Humans. While him and his demigod sons were above and apart from human the humans ruled the Imperium.

>Massively increases the military power of Chaos by gifting them 9 legions of space marines
What you call gifting, a nonretard would call betrayal from his wife creating an opening for chaos's lies to take hold.

>>97553797
he's not gonna fuck you bro

>>97553809
Why are you projecting?

>>97553809
You blew the 40kek the fuck out, well done.

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>>97553458
>What I'm hearing is to make them bigger.
The Greater Good must GROW!

>>97553797
>There were no benevolent warp entities.
Other than the Primarchs, who were all benevolent warp entities prior to the Emperor kidnapping and mind wiping them to use as the souls of his 20 super super super soldiers

>>97554442
That's a gue'vesa baby in her womb btw.

>>97533767
>What benefit did ultrapowerfeul super smart battlefield commanders with magical intuitive understanding of their forces and leader provide?
Geeee anon I have noooooo ideaaaaa.

>>97533767
The Legions weren't even close to full strength until they got their Primarchs. Prior to that point they were mostly leaderless, and they all underwent a radical transformation when the Primarch took command and helped them to achieve their full potential. Like the Revenant Legion vs. the Blood Angels, the difference was night and day. The Legions were still effective even without their Primarchs, but nowhere close to their peak.

>>97555859
And then there's Perturabo, who actively sabotaged his own Legion and who managed tonsomehow deplete his entire world's supply of teenagers causing its total collapse, just because he was THAT incompetent of a commander.

>>97556084
Don't forget Angron, who was so dysfunctional that his sons actively mutilated themselves to try to get a smattering of love from him. Big E really should have just put him down when he picked him up or helped him kill the High Riders.

>>97556084
Somehow, even with Perturabo intentionally doing a bad job of commanding his legion and always picking the most attrition-heavy strategies possible, his Legion still racked up more victories and triumphs under him than it did before he took charge. It was like he ratcheted casualties up 300% in exchange for 50% more military success
>>97556110
The War Hounds were far more 'functional' of a Legion, but the World Eaters scored a truly terrifying tally of triumphs under Angron. Sure, they left worlds depopulated in their wake and almost did more damage than they helped the expansion of the Imperium, but from the perspective of Big E, the World Eaters were all-stars as his big stick legion for sending messages to worlds that didn't want to accept Compliance. Butcher one planet, and the next 100 worlds in the sector will see that example and bend the knee. Altogether, the World Eaters were 'better' in overall usefulness, even if the Emperor was basically holding a gun under the table to shoot them and Angron like rabid dogs the moment the Crusade was over.

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>>97554914
>That's a gue'vesa baby in her womb btw.
Yes, and?

>>97556218
T'au women prefer human men

>>97556218
lol

>>97554442
guh