You All Start in a Tavern EditionWelcome to /2eg/, a thread dedicated to all things 2nd Edition D&D related - including settings, lore, modules, and derived systems (Alternity, Buck Rogers XXVc, For Gold and Glory, Hackmaster, Myth and Magic, and more). Since 2e draws heavily from earlier editions, older modules are welcome too. Other media derived from AD&D (such as Infinity Engine video games) also has a home here.It's what you play, not how you play it. RAW or homebrew, as long as your table is having fun, there's no wrong way to play.Remember to keep things civil.Thread Question - How did your most recent game begin?
2e is probably the best OSR game. Manages to have all the best old skool stuff while avoiding a lot of that really shitty autism that the worst people in the OSR have.
Rolled 11 (1d20)>>97552533>TQAnd to answer my own OP question, according to XSOLO 01: Lathan's Gold, my betrothed, the lovely Alandah, has been kidnapped by the evil Baron Ludwig von Hendricks. The baron wants a ransom of unrefined gold adding up to 1,000 gp, which I must take to Fort Doom in a certain number of days or I'll never see her alive again. I will specifically have 1d20+30 days remaining....gonna mod this slightly since I don't plan on playing Lathan, but rather a human-raised drow Thief named Iliira who's probably too young and too criminal to have a betrothed. Alandah can be, I dunno, a gal pal.This'll be fun, never played a solo adventure before...
>>97552533Elmore is so peak.
>>97552559Don't want to spoil it for you, but Lathan's Gold was a huge disappointed for me.The only good solo adventure by TSR, in my opinion, is Thunderdelve Mountain. That one I highly recommend. I wish I didn't know it by heart already.
>>97552673>disappointMENT
>>97552673I'll give both a shot.
>>97552533>How did your most recent game begin?in order to be honest, have to admit to re-rolling stats for a long time yesterday in bg2before that though it was going down into undermountain for the third timeeveryone gathered in the yawning portal, dropped down overconfidently, got fucked up by some dumb trp, had to drag ourselves back to the lift.fun stuff.>>97552556>2e is probably the best OSR game. Manages to have all the best old skool stuff while avoiding a lot of that really shitty autismyeah. all the 2e groups i played with were normal. normal is good when theres guys who are freaks>>97552673>>97552679https://youtu.be/y6EDlD_fWn0?si=7JWCgOB2UOOGnQ7H
>>97552559The character I'll be taking in.>Iliira, Drakenmoor Thief>5th-level Thief (Burglar): AC 5 (Dexterity, leather armor); MV 12; hp 20, THAC0 18; #AT 1 (dagger +1 or shortbow); DMG 1d4+1 (dagger +1) or 1d6 (shortbow); SA double damage on backstab; SD Thief skills, human-raised drow traits; AL CG>Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 14>Thief Skills (adjusted for armor): Pick Pockets 0%, Open Locks 70%, Find/Remove Traps 25%, Move Silently 40%, Hide in Shadows 40%, Detect Noise 15%, Climb Walls 40%, Read Languages 0%>Weapon Proficiencies: Knives, shortbows, short swords>Nonweapon Proficiencies: Alertness, Appraising, Cooking, Jumping (2), Looting, Swimming, Tumbling>Languages: Common (literate), Thieves’ Cant>Equipment: Thief’s outfit, leather armor, tattered piwafwi scarf, shortbow, thieves’ picks, dagger +1, knives (3), pouch (small) (4), crowbar, rope (50 ft., hemp), grappling hook, quiver (24 flight arrows), flint and steel, sack (small) (4), candle (3), whetstoneMan, I forgot how *brutal* those AD&D Thief skill penalties for armor were.(The tattered piwafwi scarf is nonmagical; it's what's left of her mother's piwafwi scarf)
>>97552760>piwafwi scarf*cloak, I mean.
>>97552760Good drowing, Anon!
>>97552766Not mine; it's courtesy of a friendly drawfriend from back in I think 2016. Still, he did a great job, in particular he got Iliira's large eyes right.
>>97552533Nah, I'm just gonna talk about 2e in the /osrg/ where it belongs. People in the /osrg/ love 2e and that's the place to discuss it. OP is just a troll.
>>97553593>People
>>97552705Curious to know your thoughts and opinions.
>>97553593>>97553600Jesus fucking Christ, the schizomod is already back? Weren't you banned (by the real mods) like eight hours ago?
>>97552760Is that your own art?Interesting choice to dump do many points on open locks. But I guess that depends on the campaign.
Working on a 2e night below campaign, any tips on running it?
>>97554186Ignore the elf subplot and just make it an underdark crawl.
>>97554188Thanks anon. Are there any good resources for underdark stuff for 2e?
>>97554192Veins of the Earth is pretty great for anything underdark; I recommend giving that a look. Also 2e's dungeon survival guide.
>>97554193Thanks, anon. I should post some notes for my campaign later.So far the players are:>Elf Illusionist>Dwarf Fighter>Human thief>Human fighter>Human Cleric>Elf ClericThey're all pretty excited.
>>97554197Sounds great, Anon! Myself, personally, I've been prepping some BX stuff for friends of mine. I converted some BFRPG index card character sheets to BX, need to figure out how to make them A4 printable.
>>97554199This looks awesome, Anon. 2e is a bit too complicated for index sheets sadly, that would be super useful. But hey, it is what it is!
>>97553806I don’t like locked things.
>>97554199>>97554202You could have the index card as a sort of quick reference sheet for a 2e character.
>>97554222FOMO?
>>97554229Yeah I think 2e sheets can be kept relatively minimal. You don't really need to copy all the rules on the sheet as long as you're willing to look up the rulebook for stuff. Whoever said that might be a nogames.
>>97554202don't worry, you'll get there anon.
>>97554230Assuming you mean “Fear of Missing Out”, yeah, basically. I want what’s in that treasure chest! Or on the other side of that locked door!Plus given how much of a time investment it is in 2e to open a lock (1d10 minutes per attempt) and the fact that you can only retry a number of times equal to your level, I want to make sure I succeed as often as possible. With an Open Locks of 70%, the odds of me succeeding at least once across five rolls is about 92%.
>>97554275>With an Open Locks of 70%, the odds of me succeeding at least once across five rolls is about 92%.It's actually 99.757%, FYI
>>97554202>>97554247>>97554197>>97554193Why are you word for word reposting my conversation & index cards? Don't do that.
>>97553593The /osrg/ is pure faggots now. OP even made this thread because he hates the /osrg/ and I don't blame him.
>>97554380Yeah, I'm not good at the math. Point is that it raises my odds considerably.>>97554588It's mostly just, I can't tell the trolls from the genuine posters in there. I don't know what the actual consensus about 2e in the /osrg/ is, and I no longer have the patience or emotional bandwidth necessary to try and figure it out.
>>97554614>I can't tell the trolls from the genuine posters in there.Really?You see posts shitting themselves upon anyone mentioning a popular OSR game in the OSR general, and it's hard for you to tell who's in the wrong?
>>97552760New guy here. How does the percentile non-combat proficiency work in 2e? Do I roll under the %? If so, why wouldn't I just minmax my proficiencies? Detect Noise 15%? Might as well be 0% if there's 85% of me failing it. I'd never take such a risk in game. If I don't have % in a proficiency that means I can't even attempt such task? Maybe I'm too spoiled by 5e and such, but I imagine 1d20+4 or something gives me much better odds at Hide skill than 40%.
>>97554722Fuck off, you shiteating troll.What's the point of making a thread just to avoid you if you're gonna appear here.
>>97554747>Ask a question>Get an answer>Get mad>Not even for the answer>But for getting an answer at allPic related.
>>97554722>self-appointed spokesgroid for /osrg/,Please end yourself.2e is an OSR game, and all your sophistry about how you don't like it because it admitted there's not just one way to play and you don't want it discussed there is just you thinking you own the /osrg/ and can force people to listen to you via trolling.Fuck, you lurking in a thread just to push more bullshit on people is why people left the /osrg/, and now you're here just to stir shit up. How can we get rid of you?
>>97554747>>97554784Relax. That's satire. God, you guys are so thin-skinned.You really think the /osrg/ has a pope who can just declare what is or isn't OSR, and uses a definition only the K&KA losers who were run out of Dragonsfoot try to use? That the threat of "if you post about it, I'll shitpost at you" is supposed to actually scare anyone?He's making fun of the troll in the /osrg/.As someone from the /osrg/, I can give you a big clue: If someone says something that sounds like Gygax worship, they're taking the piss.
>>97554516If you didn't do it yourself, Anon obviously did it to help you, since they belong in this thread rather than the one in which you mistakenly posted them.
>>97554730the thief abilities are obnoxiously low and it was a known problem back then.one of the reasons is party size and gygax being a fuck. Parties were supposed to be somewhere between 6 and 15 people so between 3-4 thieves the probabilities are low so they dont trivialize certain stuff like locked doors in the dungeons. And generally thief is a really hated class and much much weaker than the other core 3.Later editions kinda tried to shorten the gap but as far as i know there has never been an edition where it was a good class. It is still necessary if you wanna go dungeoncrawling though
>Get a tongue in cheek response>Immediately report it to the mods because "SIR, SIR, IT'S OFF TOPIC AND I'M MAD ABOUT THAT, SIR"God. More sensitive than a nuns clit.
>>97554730It is a roll under, yes. However even before you spend points everything has a "base" score, which is then modified by your Dexterity, your Race, and the armor you're wearing.Iliira doesn't have Detect Noise 15% because I invested 15 points there. She has 15% because: - The base is 15% - Being an elf adds +5% - Wearing leather armor adds -10% - And then I had 5 spare points while leveling and so put it thereA 1st-level Thief has 60 points to distribute among Thief skills, but no more than 30 points can go into a single skill. At each level thereafter you get 30 additional points to distribute, with no more than 15 going into a single skill. No skill can exce 95%.The spare 5 points going there is because I, being me and thus mildly autistic, like to keep Hide in Shadows and Move Silently equal, but they aren't modified equally, so I ended up with 5 spare points and decided to add it to Detect Noise. it would definitely have made more sense to put it somewhere else, but again: le autism.(Without armor, Iliira's Thief skills are Pick Pockets 25%, Open Locks 80%, Find/Remove Traps 35%, Move Silently 70%, Hide in Shadows 65%, Detect Noise 25%, Climb Walls 80%, Read Languages 0%)>If I don't have % in a proficiency that means I can't even attempt such task?Usually correct but with caveats related to Nonweapon Proficiencies that would take a lot of time to go into.>Maybe I'm too spoiled by 5e and such, but I imagine 1d20+4 or something gives me much better odds at Hide skill than 40%.Well, in the case of 5e, it depends on the Difficulty of the task, doesn't it? 1d20+4 makes hitting a DC 10 pretty easy, but it's impossible to hit a DC 25 and still hard to hit a DC 20.
Does anyone know good extra classes for DCC?
>>97554989>>97555136Thank you. I guess I'll never play a 2e default Thief then.
>>97554989>And generally thief is a really hated class and much much weaker than the other core 3.Conversely, it's my favorite. Because I don't like locked things.
>>97555165mine as well. but the designers at the start hated the thief and 2e slayed no sacred cows besides gold for xp and dungeon movement
>>97554784>because it admitted there's not just one way to playThat's actually a really interesting point.2e is written where it doesn't pretend to be authoritarian. It offers options and makes suggestions, and it's really up for the DM to decide how gamist/narritivist/simulationist they want to do things. AD&D was originally made to try to be a uniform set of rules to make tournaments possible and fair, but they never really figured out how to make tournaments work (they functioned, but not to the kind of rigorous rule standards you'd see with wargame tournaments). So, they eventually just let that fall away, along with the "Rulebook" style approach for its rulebooks.2e saw all the stuff that came out before, and said "You want those Dragonlance-style serial adventures? Here you go. You want to have hexploration and procedurally-generated dungeons? Here's how you do that. You want gigantic dungeons that you will likely never finish? Here, have some."I think the whole weird anger at 2e comes from people who imagine there was one way people played AD&D, and didn't realize AD&D was played in a lot of ways. When they see 2e encourage lots of options and DMs to tailor the game to a small group instead of a hypothetical tournament of faceless hundreds, they don't understand and also don't appreciate that the DM could still treat his group like faceless tournament participants if they wished.2e is a very good game. An evolved game.
>>97555124Let's be fair. Even as satire, it's not all that funny, especially because the troll actually believes that retardation and acts on it. Even now he's shitposting in the /osrg/, directing people who mention 2e to here.
>>97555211Lol, that post gets dumber each time.Careful though, because you're putting words in the troll's mouth, and he's gonna accuse you of making a "falseflag" post just to embarass him.
>>97555200I mean, that's appropriate, though. This is a 2e thread. Also, at a glance those 2e posts look like low-effort trolling of the /osrg/.
>>97555124What's weird is that that got deleted and all the other sperging about an unrelated general wasn't.
>>975552592e posts can go in the /osrg/ or the /2eg/, they belong in both threads since it's an OSR game. Kinda like if there was both a CoC general and a Horror Games general, CoC posts could go in either since CoC is a horror game.
>>97555268I imagine it's because one side are actual normal, moderately well adjusted 4channers who don't go faggoting off to the Janny any time someone posts something that gives them the spicy asshole, while the other side consists of pic related.It's particularly funny because he was replying to someone actually asking a question. Sure it's a tongue in cheek answer.But that doesn't mean it was off topic unless the original question was as well.
>>97555297It wasn't in response to someone asking a question. It was in response to me pointing out that I can't tell the difference between the genuine posters and the trolls on the /osrg/, and I don't care to try anymore, so I'm making a genuine go at creating a /2eg/.That's not a question, that's a declaration of intent.
>>97555297I also didn't think it was a bad response, the sperg trying to force our game into the other general seems extremely assblasted about it however.
>>97555355For your sake, ignore that troll.He's already declared he's taking up residency in this thread, so really all you can do is what the people who want to mention 2e in the /osrg/ do: ignore him and carry on.
>>97555403He's lurking here because you made a thread to avoid him. He could post about Birthright or wait to talk about it, but instead he just wants to tell you he's the pope of the /osrg/.
>>97555403what is the appeal of birthright even? It's the setting i am less familiar with from 2e along with spelljammer
>>97555451I think it’s intention was to be specifically geared towards kingdom-level play, though I’m also unfamiliar with it.
>>97555451The appeal is that it has a built-in domain level strategy game, essentially. Its fans typically love this because they didn't really have the experience or skills or whatever to make the default domain game work on their own. However, the math is bad and they compensated this by making the default starting province unreasonably feeble. Also, there's an extremely clumsy connection between the domain game and regular D&D adventuring in the form of a divine rulership bloodline that gives you domain points as a supernatural resource (hence the name of the setting) which improves as you level up, which really just doesn't make much sense and is an obvious kludge because they couldn't think of a better way to make the game mechanics work. (And presumably the usual woke suspects would be inordinate faggots about it, if the setting weren't so obscure. But it is, so I've literally never seen anybody complain about the bigotry or whatever.)As always, there are also various minor traits of the setting which are seen positively, like how certain monsters are unique rather than a monstrous race or species. But that's the kind of thing you could import or just do yourself with little effort, and it's not really what draws people to the setting.
>>97555451Personally I like it because it feels like a very cohesive setting driven towards Arthurian-style mythology.Where quite a lot of modern settings are very kitchen-sink-ish, Birthright laser-focuses on the divine right of kings and a sort of lower-ish fantasy setting where magic is the exception rather than the rule.The idea of monsters being the result of unique horrors is neat, as is the Highlander-esq angle that comes from how bloodlines work.
>>97555136why does wearing leather armor penalize your ability to detect noise?
>>97552533I'm trying to find an adventure I stumbled across, then lost. I think it was in a Dungeon magazine, but the Adventure Lookup site isn't really helping.You're going through a swamp and run across a black dragon throwing a tantrum because he hates his mate and can't get rid of her. So he spots you and either hires or bullies you into getting rid of a lot of his treasure so that his mate will be disgusted that he's a poor now and leave him. (He'd leave himself, but he has kids he doesn't want to abandon.)Could anyone help me out here?
>>97555891It squeaks and scrunches and stuff when you move, is probably the reasoning.
>>97556003does it though? i have a leather jacket that could definitely stop a knife or some other small weapon at least partially and it's probably akin to a leather buff coat and it doesnt make a creek really. maybe when it was new and not well worn
>>97556242>i have a leather jacket that could definitely stop a knifelmao, no you don't
>>97556242I didn’t make the rules, I just posted them and guessed at the reasoning behind them. I agree it’s a little silly; it definitely lends credence to the idea that someone in TSR hated Thieves.We’d see some th info similar in 3e due to Skip Williams’ hating the Sorcerer class.
>>97556290Skip Williams of "I tested which action this is by flipping my corded mouse around" fame?
>>97556003that would explain a penalty to 'move silently' but my understanding that detect noise 25% is like the 3rd edition's 'Listen +5' ? if that's correct why would it matter what armor is worn?
>>97556477Possibly. He hated the Sorcerer class for cramping on the Wizard, and so throughout 3e’s run - especially in 3.0 - he made sure to give Wizards all the goodies and do whatever it took to make Sorcerers worse. Although part of that might be from overvaluing spontaneous casting as a mechanic.>>97556601Detect Noise 25% isn’t equivalent to “+5” because the resolution mechanic is different. A +5 is good or bad depending on the Difficulty Class you’re rolling against. It’s great against a DC 10 (where you have a 4 in 5 chance of success)it’s much less useful against a DC 25 (1 in 20 chance of success).Detect Noise 25%, meanwhile; means you have a 1 in 4 chance of success, regardless of what you’re listening for. Instead of your chance of success being based on a combination of your skill plus the quietness of what you’re listening for, it’s just your skill.I’m not saying either way is better or worse, mind you. It’s just how the two different systems handle it.
>>97555287>since CoC is a horror game.*a horror of a game
>>97556932in 2ed don't DMs assign difficulty via penalties like >you are trying to listen for the dragon's wings beating in the smoke clouds, -30% to hear'?
>>97556932>Detect Noise 25%, meanwhile; means you have a 1 in 4 chance of success, regardless of what you’re listening for. Instead of your chance of success being based on a combination of your skill plus the quietness of what you’re listening for, it’s just your skill.I find the way flat skill chances work in 2e to be kinda interesting coming from a 3e background and latter dabbling in adnd. The way i see it and have experienced it is that it puts a lot more on the dm and him having to make rulings and adjustments constantly. Let me give an example using the detect noise skill. In later editions depending on the situation the dc of the check would chance, so if something was far away the dc might me 15 or 20 etc changing the chances of the check but in 2e because your chance to succeed is flat what ends up happening the dm rules at what point is something close enough to be at a distance to be heard and of course a lot of other environmental conditions may be at play in a dungeon.So a more strict dm will rule differently than a more lenient one resulting in different play experience.Now i think that a common homebrew back in the day is adding bonus or penalties to those skill rolls depending on the difficulty as one way to make skill rolls work but my play experience was not with modifiers as >>97557069 said. I don't think it;s necessarily bad though, since the 2e game i was in flowed better than most 3e ones i have played, just harder on the dm i think
>>97557069They can, but that’s left up to DM fiat and there’s no sure guidelines, so it’s difficult to figure out how common it is table to table, and what the penalties will be. This is AD&D, the Wild West of rule sets.
>>97555188>I think the whole weird anger at 2e comes from people who imagine there was one way people played AD&D, and didn't realize AD&D was played in a lot of ways.I'm not sure that the whole anger comes from that but the rest of that sentence probably does explain a lot of the anger. The One Trve Way is rightfully used to mock their attitude.
>>97555188>I think the whole weird anger at 2etheres no such thing.Theres anger at people who are insistent that 2e belongs somewhere that it is excluded.
>>97557776I'm curious how it started. It feels so incomplete.Someone began to tell those One True Way guys a lie, but never finished it, so they wander and rage and try to find solace among themselves as the world always turns against them.They are soulless undead. Ah, if only there was a quiet tomb to bury them in.
So does anyone know how some of the more iconic non-standard classes measure up to the standard ones? Specifically: - Assassin - Barbarian - Monk - The Dark Sun classes
>>97552760If you were plain leather armor you won't suffer any penalties to your thieves skill. If however you choose studded leather then oh boy.
>>97558506>- The Dark Sun classesCleric, Ranger, etcsame same but differentFighters got some battlesystem skills that would only be important if you were going to do massed battle which was meant to be a part of Dark Sun but got dropped pretty fast. Clerics had different spheres and had wider weapon access. There's not much to distinguish them.For the ones new to DSGladiators were basically fighter with multi specialisation like in first edition. If you're playing with battlesystem fighter can be a valid choice, if you were going to choose a fighter without battlesystem then gladiator is the better choice.Preservers were exactly 2e wizards.Defilers were 2e wizards only with faster levelling. Outside of Dark Sun they make no sense unless there is some sort of metagame reason for them to be reviled as they were in DS.Templars also make sense only in the DS setting or somewhere you are going to have a strong social hierarchy because their rules have a lot of social limitations or benefits. Other than that they're basic clerics with different spell sphere access.Psionicist is another kettle of fish. I played one but don't have much to say. They're the same in DS as elsewhere.
>>97558506Where are you taking the Assassin, Barbarian, and Monk classes from? I'm familiar with the 1e versions. The Assassin is perfectly fine. The Monk has a weird growth curve (very weak at low levels and very strong at high levels), but it's perfectly fine as long as the player understands not to rush into melee at low levels. The Barbarian is bad.>>97555188They're a bunch of cunts who are overfixated on one specific way to play, but let's give the devil its due:>people who imagine there was one way people played AD&D, and didn't realize AD&D was played in a lot of waysThis, no. They do acknowledge that different styles of play always existed, and even have a canned response for this accusation, a screenshot from one of their gurus talking about it. Which I guess fair enough. (They're still cunts.)
>>97559388>They're a bunch of cunts who are overfixated on one specific way to playWait so, what's the acceptable amount of focus on a specific way to play? If they only like that style, why shouldn't they focus on it?I mean, I keep seeing you guys seething about mistreatment by those OSR guys ITT but whenever there's some sort of reason given it always seems to boil down to "I don't like their game so I talked about my game in their thread instead and they told me to leave", like, isn't that normal? IDK, it just looks to me like you thought their thread was a place for you and got disappointed when it wasn't, and now you've decided that's their fault somehow, which I don't really get it. I mean I get that disappointment sucks but not why you blame them, plus we have our own thread now, right?
>>97560071do you lurk in a different board anon? these obnoxious fucks are out there in different threads and act like the osr is the only true way to play the rpgs bashing everyone and everything else. Especially wherever dnd is mentioned outside of maybe a couple of generals, or whenever something gamestyle is mentioned. Nobody would care about them if they weren't represented by at least a few obnoxious idiots occasionally shiting up the rest of the board
>>97560071>but whenever there's some sort of reason given it always seems to boil down to "I don't like their game so I talked about my game in their thread instead and they told me to leave", like, isn't that normal? Yes. Anon >>97560130just wants to be mad about a thing. Which ironically makes them more like what they're mad about.
>>97560071No one is "seeting about mistreatment." They are tired of retarded trolls.It's not some victory to be such a little shit that everyone wants to be somewhere where you're not, and you become so lonely you have to follow after them. Also, drop the whole act, you dumb obnoxious cunt. Only the trolls themselves believe 2e isn't an OSR game, because only they subscribe to the K&KA retardation.
>the BrOSR are in the 2e thread, trying to shit it upIs there really no low they won't go to?OP even made the thread because he'd rather skin himself than be around you in the /osrg/, something he said dozens of times, and you can't take the hint.
>>97560169Dude, calm down, talk about 2nd ed.
>>97559388Assassin and Monk are from The Scarlet BrotherhoodBarbarian from the Complete Barbarian's Handbook(There actually seems to also be a spellcasting variant of the Monk from Player's Option: Spells and Magic)You know in hindsight, the OP should have a link to the 2e fan wiki. Note to self, include in next thread.
>>97560278>You know in hindsight, the OP should have a link to the 2e fan wiki.Speaking of, when looking over the Druid entry I misread the entry on acquiring the languages of woodland creatures at first, or rather didn't finish reading until a moment later. It's supposed to be gaining the languages of sprites, dryads, centaurs, etc., at a rate of 1/level.However I initially thought it was actually acquiring the language of woodland *animals*. I figured it was, talk to wolves, talk to mountain lions, talk to bluejays, etc.I kind of want to run that as a variant from now on...
>>97560071>you guys _seething about mistreatment_ by _those OSR guys_ ITT but whenever there's some sort of reason given it always seems to boil down to "I don't like their game so I talked about my game in _their_ thread instead and they told me to leave", like, isn't that normal?t. totally a bystander in this lmao
>>97552533I tried to run Birthright for my friends in the 2000's but 3E changed the landscape so much(people expecting to be able to spam summon monster, play freakshit, find magic items every adventure etc) that my players rebelled. Feels bad man.
>>975602002e losing support is what sparked the whole OSR.The OSR began after 3rd edition dropped in 2000, right after the final 2e adventure, Die Vecna Die. The world-shifting changes in that multi-setting adventure (with Greyhawk, Planescape, and Ravenloft all undergoing dramatic changes), along with no announced plans for anything other than 3rd edition seemed to indicate that no pre-3rd edition material would be reprinted (since it would be competition for 3e).That's why the earliest "Old School Revival" discussions began roughly around 2002, with people doing things like trying to start petitions to show WotC there was an interest in older editions, and just generally trying their best to figure out how to preserve the older games from slowly disappearing. That's essentially what the "Revival" business was about.
>>97560382>total bystander who totally believes a troll's silly liesoh yeah okay
>>97560071>Wait so, what's the acceptable amount of focus on a specific way to play? If they only like that style, why shouldn't they focus on it?Well because reasons and fuck you, that's why. No one is allowed to have a thread about specific ways of playing or systems unless that anon is allowed in them to talk about his shit as well.Clearly.You want a thread about playing Lovecraftian Horror tabletop games? Tough shit, the God-King of /tg/ has decided that the thread also needs to include World of Darkness because 'That's horror too right' and he's not going to fuck off or leave you alone until you let him because 'There's loads of ways to play horror, anyone who wants to just talk about Lovecraftian Horror in /lcrpg/ is a troll. Now let me spend the rest of the thread 1-line posting about my Lestat-a-like being teh sads about his lost humanity or I'll tell the Jannies you're being mean and not including me :('The fact he'll proclaim lordly about how we're all mean shitters who are fucking up the entire board while he's been in here for, what, 5-6 threads by this point telling you all to quit having a general and instead come herd yourselves into our space when it's clear we want to play different games in different ways (Nothing wrong with that mind you, there's plenty of games I play that aren't OSR, but I wouldn't talk about them in /osrg/ unless it comes up naturally because I'm not a subhuman), or else he's going to spam and fagotage your threads until they die really tells you everything you need to know about this absolute fucking wart of a human being.
>>97560200>Dude, calm down, talk about 2nd ed.>>97560441>Another rant about the OSR.You need to touch dice.
>>97560278>You know in hindsight, the OP should have a link to the 2e fan wiki. Note to self, include in next thread.Great idea, do that.
>>97560524>>97560605There's a BrOSR thread for your specific autism. No need to try to convince everyone OSR just means your ONETRVEWAY or that you are the pope of the /osrg/.
>>97560524>people want to discuss an OSR game in the /osrg/, something done for years without issue>a troll decides no, his personal definition of what OSR means, despite in contradicting every definition beyond the one pushed by the losers who were banished to the K&KA forum, must be followed by everyone, and starts trolling as hard as he can to get the game removed>when someone decides that it's not worth dealing with that retarded troll just to discuss that game, and makes a general just to discuss that game the troll hates, the troll decides he needs to shit up that thread tooPlease leave. This thread, this board, this existence if you can manage it.
>>97560627>>97560660Your seething will never be welcome in any thread on this board.Not because it's my board, but because each and every group you encounter independently comes to the conclusion that you're a bag of cocks and wants you to leave them alone.
>>97560627I play 2e, I don't think there's one true way to play anything, I have no idea what a brosr is, and I don't want to know. I'm here to talk about games and I'm tired of reading about your grievances.Take your meds and fuck off if you don't want to talk about 2e.
>>97560071>what's the acceptable amount of focus on a specific way to play? If they only like that style, why shouldn't they focus on it?I think there's more to life than what you guys call the "gygaxian" way to play. I'd say the same to e.g. people who only like Catan and no other boardgame. Or people who only eat pistachio ice cream and no other flavour.But if that's what you like, more power to you, Anon. It's not a problem to me. Have fun. You can fuck off now.
>>97556290>>97556477Skip Williams came into 3rd with a lot of baggage. Probably the most baggage, since he was the designer on the team with the most experience working on D&D. One thing he really wanted to stress is the classes being unique while the original classes maintained their identities, and the sorcerer was just sort of a more player-friendly wizard with big QoL changes. To be fair, most 3rd edition groups I played with had players still preferring Sorcerer over Wizard, so he wasn't wholly wrong about sorcerers being in a prime position to overshadow wizards. I just wish he had tried something other than making wizards stronger and sorcerers weaker as a way to distinguish them and get people to play wizards. Maybe not something wild and extreme like Psionicists, but maybe not having identical spell lists could have helped.>>97560660>when someone decides that it's not worth dealing with that retarded troll just to discuss that game, and makes a generalHe actually said about 20 times that he'd rather skin himself alive than go to the /osrg/ anymore. Most people are not that extreme, but yeah, the /osrg/ is so bad these last few months that it's not worth looking at, and I love OSR.
>>97560524fuck off retard you can discuss whatever you wantjust don't mislead people by naming a thread an OSR GENERAL and then try to gaslight people and shutdown discussion on OSR games.just name your thread>D&D strictly earlier than AD&D 1e [included], their retroclones and [for some obscure reason a completely different style game] ACKS and have it to your own content
>>97560963>Do what I say or else I'm going to do a big, fat grumpy dumpy in my trousersNo.
>>97560963When was your last post about games, Anon? Did you make at least one in the last two threads? Or are you here exclusively to discuss osrg?
>>97560963>just name your threadLast thread schizomod posted what, sixty comments about whether we should make a 2e general?Now schizomod is doing the same, only he's on 2eg to tell OSRG what it should or shouldn't be doing.A fucking insane nogames with control freak issues.
>>97561074>schizomodwaityou think he's a mod??
>>97561091It'd explain why he never gets exiled to gay baby jail for more than 24 hours despite shitting up every thread he goes into.
>>97561091lolNo, that's what he seems to believe. Hence the "schizo" part.
>>97560130I can honestly say that I've literally never seen this. I've seen seething about the OSR a few times but never someone trying to force it down people's throats (that's mostly GURPS and 5e/HYTPD&D desu).>>97560153>>97560382You guys evidently think I'm someone I'm not. I have no idea what you're rambling about but it doesn't seem to answer my question, which I thought was pretty clear and straightforward.>>97560143>>97560524>Yes. Anon just wants to be mad about a thing.>Well because reasons and fuck you, that's why.I can't help but notice that I didn't seem to get many other replies, no. Except the next guy:>>97560778>I think there's more to life than what you guys call the "gygaxian" way to play.Uh, you seem to have the same misunderstanding as those other anons, I don't know anything about that. I like 2e, I'm a big fan of Elmore and Parkinson's art and I like Ed Greenwood's Realms once they've been de-pornified.>I'd say the same to e.g. people who only like Catan and no other boardgame. Or people who only eat pistachio ice cream and no other flavour.Oh, so you figure the OSR guys don't play anything else at all? I don't have that impression at all, just like how I don't assume the posters in the 40K thread only play 40K.>But if that's what you like, more power to you, Anon. It's not a problem to me. Have fun.This is more to the point though even though you're wrong about me specifically. So you agree then that there's no real harm in them having their own thread?
>>97560778>I think there's more to life than what you guys call the "gygaxian" way to playDragonsfoot actually has a huge collection of posts by Gygax, about as truly "Gygaxian" as something could be.My god did he get tired of the guys who kept asking him to provide final rulings on rules debates they had been holding onto for years, while he constantly repeated "I'm not any more of an authority on this than any other DM." The idea of "Gygaxian" being this sort of strict, inflexible style based on interpreting the rules like a fundamentalist interprets the Bible is extremely ironic, because in reality Gygax's own favorite style was 3-booklet OD&D (with house rules). I'm not sure anyone plays like that anymore, and definitely not the "gygaxian" cult members.2e was written with a stress on flexibility: backwards compatibility combined with expanding the game to include new vistas and new styles that had grown in popularity during previous editions. For people who want to say there is one "real" or "true" way to play, it has to be pretty annoying to be constantly told that they're wrong, while even the guy they worship also told them they're wrong.
To be clear. These are my comments:>>97561074>>97561101This one isn't:>>97561095
>>97561111>I like 2e, I'm a big fan of Elmore and Parkinson's art and I like Ed Greenwood's Realms once they've been de-pornified.Cool. Can you talk about 2e, then? I understand you're not the one who brought up the OSR topic in the first place, but at some point SOMEONE has to give up the off-topic discussion.>Oh, so you figure the OSR guys don't play anything else at all? At least some of them do, sometimes, yeah. But like I said it's not a problem for me. They seem very passionate about it, so it's even cool from one POV.>just like how I don't assume the posters in the 40K thread only play 40K.Do they even play it?>So you agree then that there's no real harm in them having their own thread?Harm?lol, how?I think it's good people who are hyperfocused on one specific way to play have a space to discuss it. I just wish the OSRG drama didn't spill over here, but I'm sure if you DIDN'T have your space, things would be even worse than they are.Which brings me back to: Can you please post about 2e or fuck off back to OSRG?
>>97561114Gygaxian is just an appeal to authority to put on top of their appeal to tradition.It's weird because I've seen people try to contrast Gygaxian with Arnesonian, with the latter being rules-lite and narrative heavy, but judging by their post-D&D games, Arneson skewed towards really annoying gamist bookkeeping like having to track every pound you were carrying because it affected your speed according to a complex table, while Gygax just handwaved almost all carrying concerns entirely.>>97560963>for some obscure reasonIsn't it just politics?
>>97560441Is Die Vecna Die any good?I've always thought the name was cool.
Regarding 2nd Ed, was the 2nd Edition Battlesystem any good?
>>97560987>be a proper human being and name a thread to clearly indicate the topic instead of misleading people and then having to wage holy Jihads regarding the OP text>No, I'd rather be a retarded faggot because otherwise I have nothing worth waking up for finebut never try to put on a show about just wanting to discuss games, you retarded antagonistic faggot
>>97560834> I just wish he had tried something other than making wizards stronger and sorcerers weaker as a way to distinguish them and get people to play wizards. Maybe not something wild and extreme like Psionicists, but maybe not having identical spell lists could have helped.when i first got into 3rd edition i wholly expected the sorcerer to have his own spell list with some overlap with the wizard on some fundamental spells, the way they did with druid and cleric and was obviously wholly disappointed
>>97561168>Can you talk about 2e, then?Definitely! Here's a thing I've been thinking about: I don't like how specialist wizards are handled by losing access to a variable number of spell schools. I get that it's supposed to be for balance, but in practice the way it's set up makes no sense to me. Necromancy is arguably the weakest school (so many of the best spells are Cleric-only) but you lose access to both Illusion and Enchantment? It's nuts.Again, I like the concept, and I'd like to see a better implementation, but the one in the book is nuts.>Do they even play it?Kek>your space>fuck off back to OSRGAgain, I don't even go to that thread. But let's leave all this here, return to the top of my post, and let's discuss that!
>>97560299My last post in this thread before I went to go take out the trash, respond to some stuff on AO3, make some brownies, and play board games with my friends.Thread-relevant posts since then:>>97560439>>97560619>>97561217>>97561297…sigh…
>>97561217Die Vecna Die! is pretty ambitious. It's also fucking huge.It's got some pretty big dungeons to explore, and Vecna's palace reminds me a lot of Castle Ravenloft (and also exists on the Demiplane of Dread).It's crammed with weird and interesting little details, like in that palace being able to randomly stumble upon someone from one of the PC's hometowns and grew up with the PC and is now serving as a minion of Vecna, which should lead to an awkward conversation.The campaign is fairly linear, though the dungeons do expand a lot and there's a lot of random chance involved that can really change up the adventure. The major problem is just the stakes are way too high, and the players really need to focus on just stopping Vecna. If the players don't succeed, the whole multiverse gets fucked, so there's actually some Deus ex Machina the DM can decided to employ at the very end to try (and possibly fail) and stop Vecna anyway (though the DM can also just decide to have Vecna win and begin a new age of horror).It's still pretty fun, and the players have a lot of stuff to fuck around with.
>>97561438>I'd like to see a better implementationThat's fair criticism. Do you have any ideas? Happy with brainstorming, not asking for anything necessarily guaranteed to work well.
>>97561503you can instead make the schools lag behind a spell level in spells known, so you would have to be level 3 to learn firs level spells of you unfavored schools instead of prohibited ones.If this is too strong just add another school to you unfavored ones. Probably something with 2 different spell progressions between you spesialised school going a little faster and the rest going a little slower (and doing away with the whole prohibited school stuff). Something like getting your 2nd spell level at level 2 instead of 3 for your favored school but getting your other schools 1st level spells at level 2 and then 4/6/8 etc with your favored school being one spell level up. It would probably be a better display of single minded focus in one school of magic and lagging in the others but it sounds kinda unbalanced.I would still playtest both of these before making any definitive judgement but these are a couple of ideas i just had at the top of my headALso not the anon you responded to btw
>>97561199>for some obscure reasonApologies for the off topic post but;Main reason is because some people (not all) feel it fills out the higher levels in a way that fits in line with Blackmoor, where PCs would eventually become local leaders and run their own fiefdoms, ect.Which fits strongly in line with the OSR 'Big sandbox, players decide what they want to do' concept.It also includes a decent set of rules for building your own campaign setting (unique races, classes, magic items, so on), which some people find.Now enough about ACKS, this isn't the thread for it.
>>97561693Hurr, I meant to say;>It also includes a decent set of rules for building your own campaign setting (unique races, classes, magic items, so on), which some people find liberating, rather than being stuck just reflavouring the same mechanics for different settings
>>97561693>>97561702Fuck the fuck off, ACKShill. Keep your lies and bullshit in the /osrg/ where they can't bother real people.
>>97561503No, I haven't really come up with anything yet. All I do know is that I don't like the system in the book, the Necromancer gets half-crippled while the Invoker loses some stuff he won't care about anyway to become a more effective Fireball machine in any way? It just doesn't land, that's as far as I've gotten unfortunately. I was kind of hoping Anon might have a solution, this >>97561585 looks promising but I'd need to think carefully about the effects.
>>97561438>Necromancy is arguably the weakest schoolArguably the weakest and that saw the weakest benefit from specialization was Divination, which is why they were only barred from one school (conjuration). Though, Necromancy getting stiffed is unfortunate (but also kind of appropriate).>>97561693Don’t apologize, just shut up about trying to make excuses for how a pretty mediocre game that goes against basic OSR ideas like “rulings over rules” and even includes a clumsy version of 3rd edition feats managed to worm its way into the BrOSR’s “Yes this is REAL D&D” criteria for any reason beyond the BrOSR caring less about actual tradition (and nothing about good games) and not just that BrOSR are right wing and ACKS is a chud game.But yes, enough about your weird efforts to push that one game and defend it like you’ve got skin in the game.>>97561477DVD would have been better as just Vecna's Palace as a stand alone adventure. I know they had big goals and big plans with it, but it's not all A material and it gets pretty weak in its shorter sections.
>>97561840>DVD would have been better as just Vecna's Palace as a stand alone adventure.Vecna's palace is fun, but it's all supposed to be a build up for your fight against Vecna and that happens much later. It's called Die Vecna Die, not D&D Cribs: Vecna.Though, now that I think about it, that would be a pretty great idea for a bunch of adventures. Just showing off the homes of famous people.I remember in Throne of Bloodstone you go to Orcus's home.But Throne of Bloodstone is insane and has 100th level characters so the less said the better.
>>97561798>terrorists purchase Anon's autism on the black market>instantly lose interst in Islam and start buying dakimakura online and having arguments about train models>terrorist group shoot each other over disagreements, insurrection implodes
>>97561964it's true though
>>97561693>it fills out the higher levelsIt's true for B/X, but not really in AD&D 2e, since it reaches 20th level and has high-level spells built in as true spells instead of rituals.However, there's some bits that I find useful in ACKS and use in my AD&D 2e games: For instance, rules on how to compute the prices of new magic items. I hate having to ballpark that shit.
>>97561964what the fuck's a chud game
>>97562131It's like a squid game but they say "chu" instead of "squee".
>>97561840>Arguably the weakest and that saw the weakest benefit from specialization was DivinationYou can always take a page from the 5e rulebook and add secondary benefits based on the school.https://dnd5e.wikidot.com/wizard:divination
>>97562148despicable! i get why that anon is so angry then
>>97562101>It's true for B/X, but not really in AD&D 2e, since it reaches 20th level and has high-level spells built in as true spells instead of rituals.I can respect that, but AD&D 2e doesn't really do the domain thing (Outside of Birthright, again, luv me Birthright, simple as), being more focused on-Well, that's a whole conversation in and of itself. Let me know if you want me to go into my kinda critique of AD&D 2e, it's very thread relevant but I don't want to be here pissing on something you like if it's not welcome.It's not nasty mind you, just my view on the misstep AD&D 2e made and could be an interesting thing to discuss in and of itself.But the main point is most people over in /osrg/ don't consider 2e an osr game since it changes things too much (Story XP, no gold for XP (I can already hear the sperg going 'B-but there's an optional rule', 1: Fuck off, 2: I could make an optional rule where every players girlfriend has to give me sloppy head before they level up, doesn't mean the rest of the mechanics are designed to support that, faggot), more of a focus on meta-plot arcs, ect) and don't consider the levels as important as the change in gameplay style from dungeon crawling to hex crawling to leading others, so on, so forth.
>ackshill flooding a thread again to shill his garbageHe's like poison.>>97562131You know guy's who call themselves "chads" and radiate nothing but little dick energy while they troll online about politics (and proxy-politics wherever they're too cowardly to be more open)? Those are chuds.
>Discussing 2e is floodingIf you like 2e, don't play ACKS, they're different games with different purposes and it won't scratch any of those itches you've likely got.With that said, I, unlike Faggot McShitnseethe above me can and do play games. The plural being important.Any of the rest of you ever tried Council of Wyrms? If so, how did you find it? I had to make an original setting for my campaign because I couldn't get over how silly 'All the Dragons know what Dragon Jesus wants, but some of them are biologically asshole coded' was.
>>97562187>my view on the misstep AD&D 2e made and could be an interesting thing to discuss in and of itselfI'd be curious to hear what you think 2e's misstep is only if it has nothing to do with the fucking OSR drama. Otherwise, I think I'll pass. I've read enough retarded rants about the OSR in these last two threads for my next five lifetimes.
>>97562205cool story bro but what's a chud GAMElike what's in a chud game rulebook that isn't in the rulebook of non-chud games
>>97562227>ever tried Council of Wyrms?turns out there IS such a thing as too many dragons
>>97562227>If you like Eclipse don't play Mage Knight, they're different games that scratch different itches.
>>97562101ACKS rules on magic item creation are terrible though. They're so overly complicated, and worse still rely on the even worse (and broken) economy rules to figure out things like monster part values, leading to further needless complications. You end up rolling for all sorts of dumb and needless shit while assembling spreadsheets that take ages because the rules are so poorly organized and spread throughout the books, and the few places it makes generalizations (like monster parts being one category) are almost always in the most useless and illogical ways.There's nothing fun or interesting about the rules, and the process of research likewise takes what should be something exciting or at least interesting and turns it into a tedious set of procedures almost explicitly designed just to waste as much of the DM's and table's time as possible.It's a game that makes people worse DMs. It's almost always faster (and better) to just to make your own system out of scratch in the time it would take to work something out using ACKS's rules only to find the results incredibly lackluster and uninspiring. Or, better yet, look at how other people do it in other games, and laugh at how ridiculously dumb ACKS is in everything it attempts.
>>97562187>most people over in /osrg/ don't consider 2e an osr gameMost people did, before the loud minority of trolls decided that they needed to spend every chance they could to pretend they spoke for the majority.Hell, I bet those trolls would be unable to resist shitposting in a /2eg/ about how they think 2e isn't an OSR game and how they think everyone agrees with them (despite people telling them to just fuck off) if they were given the chance.
>>97562227i have been meaning too as a setting backdrop mostly, but i kinda dont want to do the whole dragon council thing so i was thinking of setting this in the future where some sort of apocalypse has happened the dragon have degenerated and some remnants of the current isles cultures exist.Basically a diverse archipelagos with different locales and degenerated dragons fucking shit up all over the place
>>97562228>I'd be curious to hear what you think 2e's misstep is only if it has nothing to do with the fucking OSR dramaIt's kind of adjacent but very much focused on 2e rather than osr.Alright so, we all know about the Hickmann manifesto, intriguing story, more than pillaging, honourable ending, ect, ect.But personally I think the main issue with 2e, and this is just my personal conspiracy, is that it was mostly written by Mormon Fantasy Authors.Hickmann included.Dragonlance was the first big move away from sandboxes towards storydriven 'epic' adventures where every major arc has to end with you putting the latest BBEG in a full nelson for the world saviour championship belt, but at the same time it also pushed things more towards a 'The setting is a place where NPCs are doing shit, PCs just happen to be there' kind of dynamic where you're not working off your own initiative but instead following Mr Authors Wild Ride.And Mr Author came in with a lot of expectations on what a hero is because of his upbringing in the quirky Utah polycute.There's a certain expectation in 2e-forward D&D that the players are heroes who are doing things for hero reasons and, rather than being what we might call traditional adventurers (Vikings, Condoretti, Victorian explorers, ect), are going to instead be a bunch of good little boys and girls sent off on a jolly by their elders to save the world, not for personal gain or to earn a rightful reward, but because it's the right and moral thing to do.This is, I feel, the poison at the heart of D&D, that feeling of 'Your characters don't matter, they're just here to save the fucking world is all'I know, sounds crazy, but on the other hand you have to also remember Kender and their quirky little 'Borrowing' habit are because the Mormon authors didn't think heroes should be stealing because 'It am bad >:('>>97562245>Rulebook of a non-chud game.Lancer? Or is that more Anti-chud?
>>97562302>sperg outYou sound like /osrg/ when 2e is mentioned. You know you can just ignore games you don't like, right?
>>97562325>endless seething about the OSRjesus fucking christ schizomod you're insufferable
>>97562329>Your characters don't matter, they're just here to save the fucking world is all'Interesting take. Was their obsession with cataclysms destroying well-established settings related to Mormonism as well, in your view? E.g. what they did to Mystara.
>>97562329Wow, you're pretty wrong about just about, well, everything.Dragonlance started in 1e.2e just acknowledged that there is more than one way to play than the tournament-first rules language that 1e AD&D was written in. You could play it in many ways, just like people played 1e for Dragonlance.Trying to create a false dichotomy where 1e was all open-world unscripted adventure and 2e was following a meta plot is ignoring reality to the extreme.1e had more than its share of meta-plot driven adventures, including your apparently hated Dragonlance starting in 1e and using 1e rules. And, 2e had more than its share of realms and adventures where they're open-ended explorations, including some extreme examples like Undermountain.It feels like you have a cart-before-horse mentality, where you dislike 2e and are trying to figure out how express that in a way that doesn't make people immediately call you out, so you demonize something unpopular like railroading, and pretend that's all 2e was and that 1e didn't have more than its share. The amount of unpopular railroading 1e adventures like The Forest Oracle that largely lay forgotten makes your entire premise seem like deliberate obfuscation of the facts in order to try and lay blame on 2e for what was in 1e (and even Oe) from the start. So, all your efforts just mean it takes a little extra effort to call you out.
>>97562375he's still trying to recruit us in his sperg jihaddo you think he'll ever accept most of don't give a fuck?
>>97562329This is not even a critique of 2e. It is at best the critique of the novels and some published adventures for one of the many settings of 2e. >There's a certain expectation in 2e-forward D&D that the players are heroes who are doing things for hero reasons Not in every setting. Dark sun exists, spelljammer exists etc. Either way the Hickman manifesto is an osrg boogeyman. Yeah total railroading sucks but this is not hardbacked in the system in any way and it's not like every adventure published for 2e follows the full on rails approach. This is the opinion of an osrg person that doesnt know the first thing about 2e besides the memes in his preferred general of choice.That being said fuck mormons. Everything they touch is poisonous.
>>97562406ntayrtThat's a singularly bad faith reading of what he posted. Try to read it again with less butthurt, he makes some valid points.
>>97562397>Biggest tip I can give for running it?>Remove alignments. Or rather, change alignments; make it so your alignment is 'How do I feel about humans'>Rather than 'Evil shithead' or 'Good wholesomechungus' the focus of the setting should be 'We're no longer masters of our world, our god has chosen others, how do we feel about this?', with some wanting to guide humanity, others wanting to avenge themselves on mankind, ect.>Make the dragon council into absolute boomers who everyone works around rather than for, a dying institution that's fallen into complete boomer obscurity and it leaves players plenty of options.>Or post-apoc can work as well, you do you.Those are actually great ideas. Thanks anon. I think i like the decaying council a little more because it allows for more politics. The post apoc would be better for osr play, exploring islands and delving into the lairs of long dead dragons (or sometimes not so dead) trying to extract their wealth
>>97562430You have no idea what's being discussed if you don't immediately understand how wrong he is, or how weirdly and severely slanted his bias is. He made no valid points, and you are actually dumber for having believed he did.
>>97562394>Interesting take. Was their obsession with cataclysms destroying well-established settings related to Mormonism as well, in your view? E.g. what they did to Mystara.Possibly? The more cynical part of me ways that Mystara was pre-TSR and they wanted a clean slate to work with rather than risking paying intellectual royalties.Better to kick the sandcastle over than pay for it. But it could be low key apocalyptic spiritualism as well.>>97562412Darksun is absolutely 100% pure uncut black tar heroin and you can shoot it straight into my veins.But I've never met a person that used the Metaplot aspects of it. Have you ever seen a game set after the Prism Pentad? I haven't.That's the Big Problem with 2e.It's got settings that Fuck. They lay pipe. They're here to please and no one is going home unsatisfied.But boy howdy do the wheels come off mid-drive sometimes.And can you really look me square in the eye and say that there's no blood relation between Dragonlance, the way it did things and modern adventure paths that absolutely 100% are on the rails and hardbacked into the system?Raistlin Majere is the Patient Zero for 'PCs must be special snowflakes'. Man has the motherfucking Sharingan.Here is a characters whose backstory includes, with a completely straight face, 'The three gods of magic, all of whom are directly opposed and hate each others guts, sluts, nuts and butts, all turned up to my entry exam personally to ask me to worship them'. You'd be lucky to be laughed out of Critical Role with that shit.Shit, I don't even have anything against a good, campaign long story or a decent adventure over a sandbox.Baldur's Gate is the single best Epic adventure D&D has ever done.Planescape is the single best Deep Lore story D&D has ever done.Fuck it, Icewind Dale is the single best Dungeon Crawler Beer N' Nuts D&D has ever done and is my favourite of the 3.But in 2e I see the seeds that Ravel planted which grew into 5e.
>>97562516So >>97562329 has zero points good or otherwise and it just a nogames talking while dicks hit his dumb face.
>>97562497Dragonlance which Raistlin Majere from is started in 1e dumbass. The stuff you are whining about was not started by 2e
For all others in the thread, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact I'm talking about 2e and inviting you all to discuss its good and bad points with me, even having specific discussions and giving advice.Meanwhile he's shitting out a prepackaged slurry of schoolyard insults and 'The thread am doomed, people I don't like are here and it am make me teh saddest :'('I stopped talking about ACKS an hour ago after it was mentioned in passing by someone else once.He hasn't stopped seething though.Keep this in mind going forward whenever he posts and tells you other people are the cancer killing /tg/, he didn't du nuffin', everyone who is mean to him is the same person because he's a goodboi who just cares about board quality, so on and so forth.Now with that said and to keep the thread going. I really do want to discuss metaplots, were any of them done well in 2e? I'm more than happy to put my hands up and admit I'm wrong and retarded if proven to be so on the subject.
>>97562593Raistlin from the novels is also not at all like what 2e PCs are like. Even Raistlin's official PC stats in 2e are nothing at all like he is in the books (he's the most intelligent person in the world in the books, while he only has a 17 int in the starter kit stats), so it's kind of dumb to try and say he's "Patient Zero for special Snowflakes" when the system doesn't even allow you to emulate him until fairly high levels. It's also weird for the guy who said that 2e PCs all had to be good little boys and girls, when Raistlin ended up being pretty much a villain for big chunks of the books.Overall, the guy seems to also just be forgetting Elric of Melnibonee existed.
>>97562473kthxbai
>>97562561>he might kill the board, one general at a timeMeds
>>97562593Arguably, it started in OD&D. If you want to talk about Mary Sue protagonists, Appendix N is filled with them.The Paladin class was even directly inspired by Holger Carlsen from Three Hearts and Three Lions, and it's hard to top an Isekai protagonist who is superhumanly strong and smart and manages to attract the eternal affections of I think every single female character mentioned by name, and turns out to be the Champion of Law with the supreme power to destroy the endless Forces of Chaos, before returning back to Earth in order to kill Nazis and win WW2.
>>97562627I mentioned one thing one thing one could take from ACKS (rules for determining magic item prices, it's literally just one table on half a page) and one thing one could take from 5eg (secondary benefits for specialist mages). Somehow that makes me a shill chud who will destroy/tg/ one board at a time, but not a 5eshill.I've also taken part in several convos that were purely about 2e. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for him to contribute anything to the thread that isn't schizo rants.
>>97562674Ah don't worry about it. I'm used to him accusing me of being the Baby-eating Bastard of Bathory by this point.
>>97562718Appendix N is not a game, Anon. You sound like someone who can't tell the difference between reading books and playing.
>>97562778neither are the dragonlance novels
>>97562412I don't know any D&D setting in any edition where the players have to be good, and any where the expectation is that players won't want to lean towards good.>>97562561I remember OP saying he'd rather bite his own nuts off then post in the /osrg/ again. Guess that means the trolls there had to bring the /osrg/ to him.>>97562718I've been going through Appendix N, and 3H3L was probably the most D&D novel in the bunch. Gygax owes Anderson royalties.
>>97562810Raistlin in the starter kit is not Raistlin in the books. >>97562778>You sound like someone who can't tell the difference between reading books and playing.Supreme irony.
>>97562810Raistlin character card stats don't really reflect how he is in the novels, and the novels in general really deviate far from the original game that served as dragonlance's foundation. They are, quite clearly, novels, just as un-gamelike as every other novel that served as or was inspired by D&D. Pointing to Dragonlance as the first time a Mary Sue existed, forgetting that was 1e, and trying to build your entire worldview on that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
>>97562907We kind of have to talk about Gord.Gord the Rogue was Gygax's novel character. Set in Greyhawk. Basically, the closest thing to Gygax pointing at a character and saying this "this is what a PC is like." He had kind of an ordinary starts for a PC. But, shit quickly escalated and eventually Gord is serving as a Champion of Balance saving the multiverse, though with Gord relying on beyond-Batman plot armor and contrivance.It's funny, because if novels are advertising how a game should be played, the "Gygaxian" way to play involves having a DM run the game in a fashion where an actual handjob would feel less like him jerking you off. But, of course, novels are just novels.
>>97562397>Check that out, 3 in the last 3 days.I was going to call bullshit but you're right. Jesus.What a loser.
>>97563018>We kind of have to talk about Gord.No thanks.I'm not a fan of the Dragonlance novels, but at bare minimum at least they're not Gord.
>>97563044Oh you're so right, my mistake.Make that last 3 weeks.Maybe if you spent less time sandblasting the board with your fannysalt you'd be less noticeable as a repeat offender.
>>97563060NTA, but->search just "ACKS">it's half shameless unprovoked shilling, half people telling you to fuck off and describing the game beyond just terrible"Terrible" seems to be one of the nicer adjectives someone would use for it.And, for a guy who said he gave up talking about ACKS in a /2eg/ thread you really can't stop.How 'bout you fuck off back to the /osrg/ before OP skins himself?
>>97563093Look, I am OP, and like I pointed out in the OP, 2e was designed to be backwards-compatible. Now I don't know anything about ACKS, but if it's compatible with 1e then it probably has elements that can be plundered for 2e.ACKS shouldn't be automatically verboten in and of itself.
>>97563167So far there's been far more complaining about someone trying to shill ACKS, then any actual shilling of ACKS. I'm hoping to avoid *that* too, you know.
>>97563122No one said ACKS should be verboten. It's just an incredibly unpleasant game hocked by even more unpleasant people.We're talking about a game that got banned from rpg.net and from r/osr and r/rpg because during the ACKS2 kickstarter, the mentions of the game went from essentially zero to thousands by pretty flagrant shill accounts.It's a game not worth the drama, and it carries a lot of drama because the game naturally just doesn't inspire much interest, being bloated and amateur in almost every direction.
>>97563242>base competencyThey kind of have to tiptoe around that these days.I think most people, even the shills, are roughly aware of how miserable it is to actually play ACKS. It even fucked up simple combat by making the dumbest initiative system. So, the shilling game's pivoted to selling bits and pieces of it, almost like they know its poison but still think they can sell it in low enough doses.But then someone tries to shill something like its trading system and puts it on display and we all get to laugh at how badly designed it is because everything is fifty rolls for what most games solved with one or two.
>>97563221There's a hell of a lot more for people to complain about in ACKS than there is to praise.
>>97563242 >>97563243>You don't seem to understand how bad the game isNo, I don't *care* how bad it is. If someone can plunder it for something useful for their 2e games, then fine.*If* someone starts shilling too much,then we can deal with it then. But this preemptive stuff is just as bad as endless shilling because either way, you're not talking about A&D.
>>97563342>you're not talking about A&D.*Not talking about AD&D. Mea culpa.
>>97563342>If someone can plunder it for something useful for their 2e games, then fineThat be the problem. There's really nothing useful in ACKS, because you gotta trim everything down to actually make it useful, and you got to also add ideas to make it interesting.It's almost universally a bad rec for any application. Unless you're looking for rules to just take up space in a book, you're better off looking elsewhere.
>>97563342How bad it is happens to be its key feature though.And, in a 2e-specific thread, it's gets even more awkward because the things that its shills tried their hardest to sell the game on ("it has rules for domains!") is done far better by something like Birthright.The use-case for the game is DMs who are, frankly, more on the stupid side. The kind who just need rules that they don't plan to question or think about, who just want any rules without any concern for quality or even if they match the setting. That game is actually built around a number of defaulted values based on a first-result google search level of research on Rome, but with compiling mistakes that leave everything from travel to economics delivering odd values. The economic system is actually quite dumb and doesn't account for any naturally balancing forces while trying to be extremely detail driven, making it a game of exploiting bad rules while waiting to corner monopolies. It's almost masturbatory. But, that could all be forgiven if the game's abstractions were efficient, but they're always the opposite. You're never going to find a rule that wasn't handled more cleverly by someone else. It's almost like it was intentionally bad at times.It's like the game tried to hide its flaws by just making as much material as it could, like trying to hide trees in a forest. Problem is, the forest itself is a flaw.
>>97563379 >>97563470Okay. And now you've said that. So now we're done, right?
>>97563122>Now I don't know anything about ACKS>>97563242>You don't seem to understand how bad the game is,Easiest way to fix that is to show some of the rules.A while back, someone recommended ACKS for mass combat, and then someone decided to show everyone what it actually looked like over several posts.It is not an... elegant system.
>>97563470>something like Birthright.I have mixed feelings about Birthright. I will agree it's better at what it does.
>>97563526Birthright is always talked about for its domain rules, but the setting itself is kind of underappreciated. It has some big, evil kingdoms to deal with, and while the game expects you to use its rules and run a kingdom and use domain actions and all that, I've always thought it might be more fun for a party to topple one in an old fashioned murder-hobo way.The Gorgon gets so much hype that I'd be less excited about running a kingdom and more excited about beating his ass without one.
>>97563586Sounds like a huge fucking waste.That's an option in the campaign types though. Really doubt it's supposed to be a serious option.
Did anyone play picrel back in the day? I found the boxed set totally intact in my parents' basement. >>97563586There was a lot about the setting I liked. Variant humans. Bloodline powers. Magic items being enough of a big deal that a +2 sword would have a name. Elves being hostile to humans. I think my ideal campaign would have the players as knights and minor nobles with some scion blood. Basically do something like the Hedge Knight stories where they go to jousting tournaments, hunting questing beasts, or finding themselves enmeshed in conspiracies.
>>97563586If my DM suggested we play Birthright and then said it would be without ruling a kingdom, I would just drop my pants and take a huge nasty shit.>>97563830The bloodline powers are pretty cool. Even in a non-BR game they'd be a welcome little boon.
>>97562227>If so, how did you find it?Torpid at best, I'm afraid. It felt like a classic solution in search of a problem, or like they were obligated to produce a setting per year or some shit. I just can't recall any player ever spontaneously saying "I want to play a dragon, but stick with me – it gets better! I want the game to focus on politics". I don't understand who it's for. Where the fuck was the audience for this thing?>I couldn't get over how silly 'All the Dragons know what Dragon Jesus wants, but some of them are biologically asshole coded' was.Well, exactly. Which is even worse given that again, the game is about dragon politics. How can you have meaningful negotiations when you know that one faction is biologically predisposed to be huge cunts in a way the overrides many personal considerations?I don't want to sound too down on TSR, Council is from the same year they released Planescape so clearly they were doing good work, I just think this in particular was a baffling misstep.
>>97563830Feels like an inverted isekai, which is really weird. It's hard to explain, but I'm so used to AD&D for heroic fantasy that it felt like I was a dude playing a fantasy dude playing a goth dude.>>97563925>you did okayNot really. Reeks of shit.
>>97561297Much better than 1st edition. It wasn't all that much faster but it was more streamlined. Okay for mass combat with your guys taking part in the battle and for dealing with AD&D monsters, not at all a replacement for a skirmish game if what you wanted was a good miniatures combat game.
>>97564004I think I know that feeling.The first time I went to a Pirate-themed LARP (and I had always gone to medieval LARPS), and even though there were guns everywhere I just clung to my cutlass like it was the only thing real in that world. Everyone else was getting involved with Pirate politics while I was preparing to hunt down a Kraken. I definitely felt less like I was roleplaying a pirate and more like I was playing a time-displaced knight, and a good part of me could not stop asking myself why pirates didn't use shields. Single-shot pistols wouldn't have stood a chance against a shield, and there I was having to cut nerf darts out of the air with a cutlass.
>>97562329>we all know about the Hickmann manifestoApparently we don't know about. I know about it. If you know about you should at least act like you do instead of lying about it and hoping others don't know better.If you did know about it and acted like you knew then I wouldn't be laughing at you as stupidly vilify it and pretend that the allegations you make against it couldn't also be made against TSR before the Hickmans started at TSR, while Gygax was at the helm.>intriguing story, more than pillaging, honourable ending, ect, ect.You deceitful little fuck. What's that misspelt etc. etc. for? Acting like the "manifesto" goes on and on after you made three points when the "manifesto" is only four points.>A player objective more worthwhile than simply pillaging and killing.>An intriguing story that is intricately woven into play itself. >Dungeons with an architectural sense. >An attainable and honorable end within one to two sessions playing time.That's the whole "manifesto". All you left off your restatement was good dungeon architecture.
>>97562810>Who sacrifices his life at the endFun take but you've forgotten some a key point.Raistlin's godhood fantasy that he maintained throughout most of the novels>I will be a god feared and worshipped by all in Krynn and chief of the gods themselvesRaistlin's probable reality that he learned at the end of the novels before he "sacrificed">I will be god of a dead world, alone, insane, no worshippers, probably no other godsRaistlin didn't make a sacrifice, Raistlin tried to sidestep a fate he saw as personally worse for himself than not being a god.
>>97562497>Mystara was pre-TSR????
>>97562718Appendix N isn't part of OD&D, Anon...
>>97563093>>97563167>>97563242>>97563243>>97563284>>97563309>>97563379>>97563470>>97563523>ACKS!>ACKSACKSACKSACKS!>Must we CONSTANTLY talk about ACKS?!>here are four thousand off topic posts about why I think one casual mention of the game was off topic>ACKSACKSACKSACKSACKSACKSACKSYou're not really doing a good job selling your perspective, you know.In fact, I think I might buy a copy of ACKS now just to spite you.
>>97563044>schizomod hiring for his sperg jihad again.Fuck off.
>>97563243>We're talking about a game that got banned from rpg.net and redditlmaoIf anything that's a positive.
>>97564651how much does macris pay? I may be interested in some paid shill work since i am strapped for cash these days
>>97564267Jesus fucking Christ. If I had known that mentioning that I use ONE TABLE from ACKS was going to trigger such a massive autistic meltdown I would have mentioned it anyway because I don't bend my knee to wannabe despots.Picrel: The table that caused a dozen posts of retard shouting.
>>97564676He gave me 300 dollars and some Nazi memorabilia for posting just that one table. That's not bad for ten minutes of work. Since his kickstarters only do okay, I'm pretty sure the money comes from Epstein, Mossad, and the the Comet Ping Pong pizzeria in DC.
>>97564727On the bright side it's not like you've made an enemy. He was already here, fully intent on sabotaging your threads because he thinks they're some scheming GayOps by his Darkling Nemesis to do that most wicked of deeds>Having a thread where people can talk about 2e rather than every osr thread having 50+ posts of him sperging about how people should be allowed to talk about it there and being told to fuck offFishfag was already intent on being here and sshitting things up for you, so triggering his ACKS autism makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things.
>>97564114>Posting the actual wording is being deceitful and vilifyingk retard.What, you expect more? I mean I could break down why the Hickmann manifesto is a poisoned chalice, but you're clearly a cunt so why would I throw pearls before swine exactly?
>>97561693>it fills out the higher levels in a way that fits in line with Blackmoor, where PCs would eventually become local leaders and run their own fiefdomsthat's not what Blackmoor wasit was a wargame first already, they started with armiesbut Arneson also had this dungeon that could be explored without the armiesand everyone progressively started ignoring the wargaming aspect to go down the dungeonthe idea that your d&d NEEDS to evolve into some sort of wargame is just falsefor most characters reaching highish levels building a stronghold was the end of their career and a start of a new character, not the start of some "time for real shit, running my fiefdom now"
>>97564811>the Hickmann manifesto is a poisoned chaliceNTAYRT. I think you're being overly dramatic here.>1. A player objective more worthwhile than simply pillaging and killing.This is a criticism of sandbox and emergent play. Not a very charitable one, mind you, but it expresses a valid preference. He likes some kind of mission, goal, or quest to take centre stage in his games. I don't think it's a crime.>2. An intriguing story that is intricately woven into the play itself.This is a double-edged sword, because it created a larger burden on the DM than just running a sandbox. But if the DM is able to come up with a good story, I see no problem.>3. Dungeons with some sort of architectural sense.This is also a valid preference, put again not very charitably put. It's false that old school dungeons made no architectural sense, since they had their own internal logic of sloping corridors, secret doors, traps, and so on. But it's true that one could have dungeons make MORE sense than the traditional old school ones. I'd even argue that Castle Xyntillan does this, for example. Was Melan "Hickmafagging" when he came up with a castle that actually looked like a castle?4. An attainable and honorable end within one or two sessions or playing timeAgain, a valid personal preference. Some players actually LIKE their campaigns to be a string of mini-quests with milestones. Others prefer to be in charge of their own destiny and not be told what to do.TL;DRYes, the Hickman Manifesto is different from traditional "Gygaxian" play. No, it's not bad per se. It's just a different style. Both styles are good, serve their own purposes, and they are not even mutually exclusive. One can run hybrid campaigns.>>97564267What a singularly obnoxious, retarded vermin. Can we get him to fuck off?
i like ACKS
>>97562397>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/ACKS%20terrible/ - Check that out, 3 in the last 3 days.that's one result in last 3 days of your post though?
>>97564887
>>97564811So all it states is no endless megadungeon, coherent dungeon architecture, and character motivation different than looting and pillaging? Why is that bad even? Also are people so brainrotted by dnd that they can't understand that this was obviously a reaction to different styles of play already existing in other rpg games and them wanting to play dnd in other ways as well without changing to runequest, traveller fantasy trip or call of cthullu?
>>97564894>so its a cheeseburger, with no cheese, no burger, and no bun?>Why is that bad even
>>97564872>One can run hybrid campaigns.Case in point: - B10 Night's Dark Terror (1986).- O2 Blade of Vengeance (1991).Both by Jim Bambra. Both excellent. Both have clearly stated objectives that are forced down the players' throats, but both also have a large sandbox part in which the players need to roam a wilderness and take on various mini-dungeons, in which the next "milestone" in the story fades in the background.Personally:1. I have no problem if osrg-fags only want to play in a pure sandbox style with no overarching plot.2. I also have no problem if 5e-fags only want to play in the Hickman/railroad style in which the players can switch off their brains, eat beers and pretzels, and roll some dice. 3. I also don't pop an aneurysm if an Anon says he uses a table from ACKS or even runs a whole campaign with it.I like to play a hybrid, and would like everyone to relax a bit around Anons who have different preferences. At least you seem to be reasonable enough to be able to do it, unlike that schizomod vermin.
>>97564267>In fact, I think I might buy a copy of ACKS now just to spite you.OH NO! Wasting actual money on a subpar paperweight of a "game"book?That would make me SO angry! you should get 3, no 5 copies! Now that would make me so butthurt! You know what would also get me furious mad? I'm not telling you! Just don't you dare run head first into a brick wall!You hear me? Don't you dare! I would be so angry!! basically seething!
>>97564900I will take your bad faith greentext and reply to you in good faith.You assume that an endless megadungeon where all you care about is looting and getting as much gold as possible treating your characters as expendable pieces for you to move around to try and achieve the said meta goal of the game is the pinnacle of game design.It is not. Nobody thinks this, besides some people in the osrg and even there i dont think everybody does. I can understand this being your preferred way of play. It is definitely interesting on it's own as a different experience from what is now the typical way to play which is somewhat structured. But that's it. If you wanna crusade for that type of play i say it without enmity that the osrg is that way.Why come into the 2e general which is about 2e that explicitly diversified they way the game is to be played both through optional rules and the diverse settings and crusade against what makes 2e great, which is the versatility it has and the settings it contains.From this point onwards i will just report your bad faith posts hopping the mods get tired of seeing notifications and allow us to have a thread about actual 2e content
>>97564927>You assume that an endless megadungeon where all you care about is looting and getting as much gold as possible treating your characters as expendable pieces for you to move around to try and achieve the said meta goal of the game is the pinnacle of game designthat + domain acquistion is all D&D needs to be. >bad faitheat shit redditfaggot
This is basically how I imagine your average human male fighter.
>>97564963unarmored and armed with a sword even missing a scabbard? not to even mention any other type of equipment?
>>97564974Okay. How about this?
>>97564872I don't think I'm being too unfair in my description of it, not because of what's in the manifesto itself.But because, well first of all because there's a very down-your-nose morality factor in the Manifesto, a tone of 'Heh, don't you plebs understand, there's more to MY stories than acting like a bunch of savages.'It's arrogant in a 'frustrated author' kind of way, where it treats the players as bucktoothed retards who need to be clothed in the garb of civilization by Hickmann.Second and more importantly, it presumes quite a lot and I can prove this with a single question:>Worthwhile according to whom?Who decides what this laudable, worthwhile objective is?The players? No. They're being told what to do by the story.The DM? Not really. The adventure path is already set, they're just DMing the world.The Writer does. Someone who is never even at the table and engages in top down design from an office somewhere.So what you end up with isn't a worthwhile objective, it's a railroad, where Tracey (and every AP writer since him) goes 'Your characters care big heapum about some bullshit, off you go.' then demands you fit your characters around his expectations, rather than you playing who you want to play and them having their own goals and intentions.In the heart of the Hickman Manifesto is where the railroad was first forged. At its core is the unspoken statement that when it comes to the tale being told; player interest is meaningless but character investment is mandatory.And we've all seen the consequences of that over time enough by this point that yes, I can say it's absolutely poison to the one type of game whose greatest virtue is that there are no limits, no boundaries, no budget or set path
>>97564990this is obviously much better. Add a helmet and a sack/backpack for necessities and you have a basic starting adventurer
>>97564984I meant it in the way of character motivations focused play, but seen through a lense of dnd, not recreating either traveller or call of cthullu per se.Runequest is probably the best counterexample to dnd as it sprung up first as a response of doing things in a different way, with a focus on skills, simulationist combat, personalised characters with their own motivations and goals tied to a world and a community deeply, which is very unlike the antisocial gold rush sociapaths that are original dnd adventurers
Hey, Janny, you faggot.I'm talking about traditional games on /tg/, fuck off.As I said; >>97564894I can't speak for Runequest, but if Hicky was attempting to recreate D&D into Traveller or CoC then he did a miserable fucking job of it. Neither of them match the ideals of the manifesto since most plots are ongoing, character driven, morally ambiguous and unrelentingly messy.And in the case of Traveller, you're motivated right from the off by 'Get the fuck out my way cunt, I need those crystals, I've got a goddamn mortgage to pay at the end of the month'Even the most /osr/ of /osr/ characters aren't as capitalistic as Travellers character gen.
>>97565005>In the heart of the Hickman Manifesto is where the railroad was first forged. Anon wtf are you huffing. There were railroad modules and certainly people were playing in that way before hickman touched the hobby.The osrg crowd is so invested in a clean break but life is never this simple or clean. Even under gygax railroad modules were published and this was emerging as one style of play that later got prominence Stop trying to hang everything on the hickman manifesto. It was largely irrelevant to most if not all other rpg games that were being created back then and they were going into a more structured direction if they werent already. DND just joined the trend slowly but surely.Don't be boogeyman posting. Also the manifesto doesn't explicitly state anywhere that you have to railroad people and the dm has to be a novelist and you just an observer occasionally rolling dice. You just keep presenting a false dichotomy. You can have a game of more than empty dungeon looting without it being a full on rails interactive novel.These are just 2 ends of a spectrum
>>97565219>>97565005How do you tell if someone's a christfag? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
>>97564811>Posting the actual wording is being deceitfulAt it again I see.I'm posted more of the actual wording than posted an abbreviation, and when I wrote>>Acting like the "manifesto" goes on and on after you made three points when the "manifesto" is only four points.there's you being deceitful. You also could have cut down that image you posted because most of it is advertising copy.>Posting the actual wording is being deceitful and vilifyingGet fucked. Quoting or abbreviating the text of Hickman's goals isn't vilifying, your nutjob conspiracy climaxing with>>the poison at the heart of D&Dis vilifying.
>>97565219>>>>In the heart of the Hickman Manifesto is where the railroad was first forged.Claim made.>>>There were railroad modules and certainly people were playing in that way before hickman touched the hobby.Claim rebutted.>Irrelevant drivel that doesn't address the rebuttal.Sidestepped the question there bruh.
>>97564727Wait, THIS is what he was mad about? This literally just looks like a 2e table, lmao
>>97565386Unfortunately you're talking about someone for whom every single aspect of ACKS has to be "the worst thing evar™!!1!"You could say 'I like that the books have an index' and he'd drop a manifesto about how indexes are only for boring, tedious games that are banned on reddit and rah-rah-rabble-rabble-harrumph.
>>97564961> that + domain acquistion is all D&D needs to beFor some people. Others prefer something else.NEITHER IS WRONG.I said it right in the OP trying to forestall these dumbass arguments: it’s what you play, not how you play it, in this thread. You can use 2e to run a combatless game of courtly intrigue and as long as your table is having fun, you’re playing 2e right, because 2e is a GAME and the overriding point of a game is to have fun with people.
>>97565482>I like playing games where characters never progress into a position of responsibility, I want to play a level 20 character who is a complete loser that owns a sword, pants and nothing elsehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxvASfqaAlg
>>97565005You make some valid points, but:>In the heart of the Hickman Manifesto is where the railroad was first forged.No, the railroad always existed, as did all sorts of styles that were neither (fully) railroady nor (fully) sandboxy.The Hickman Manifesto brought about a sea-change at TSR, but it's not an invention of anything new.
>>97565482>the overriding point of a game is to have fun with peopleYou sound like you've never played Chess seriously. Good for you.
>>97564924Why are you so butthurt that someone told you he's going to buy a book you don't like? You're much worse than /osrg/ when 2e is mentioned, and that's already a high bar.
>>97565386That's not the entirety of ACKS item cretaion rules. That's one table among several, and unfortunately the rest of the rules do nothing to address the issues with that chart (such as how it generalizes item cost by usage. It's like it chose to copy parts of 3rd edition but didn't learn anything from even the most basic exploits.) while making sure to add something worthless that just leads to more bookkeeping (it can't even handle something like 3/day without adding a needless addendum).>>97565404ACKS sucking at everything is just the result of the design philosophy, if you can even call it that. "Add more" is the only idea that ever seems to come to mind, and never something like "what exactly is the benefit of this rule, and is the additional complexity and time/bookkeeping involved actually adding or detracting from the experience?"And, it's a compounding problem. Every slowdown in ACKS is never alone, and something as basic as travelling becomes more laborous and time-consuming than actually walking ten miles.They are quite simply rules that can't be trusted for accuracy, for having been playtested, for having any attempt made to refine them; ie worthless and even a liability to use.
>>97565828He's making fun of you for imagining doing something like hurting yourself out of spite is going to stop people from calling out how shit the game you want to shill is.And don't try to pull a "you're worse than the /osrg/ trolls" when it's literally those same /osrg/ trolls who are trying to shill ACKS in a /2eg/ thread.
>>97565154>Anon wtf are you huffing.He's trying to find some justification for why he can claim 2e is not an OSR game, but failing miserably because he relies on lies and bad logic. His whole Hickman business is almost like his Fishfag business, something he can just repeat over and over again without even caring about how much of an obvious lie it is, because he expects that a lie repeated often enough becomes indistinguishable from the truth.
>>97565828>why are you so butthurtThis coming from a guy wailing "if you don't stop bullying the game i'm gonna buy it!" like that's a threat or you don't already have boxes of signed copies sitting in your kitchen.
>>97565864>He's making fun of you>>97565901>This coming from a guy wailing "if you don't stop bullying the game i'm gonna buy it!I'm not the Anon who told you I'm going to buy an ACKS book. I haven't bought an RPG book since the 1990s. I have my 2e books, some older TSR books and some books from other old RPGs, and I pirate everything else.I'm just puzzled by your reaction. And no, you didn't answer my question of why you're so butthurt at the idea that someone might like a game you don't like.>don't try to pull a "you're worse than the /osrg/ trolls"You obviously are, though. What you've been doing because ACKS was mentioned once is much worse than what osrg does when 2e gets mentioned. They usually just say something like "off-topic" or "fuck off, retard", while you go on a full blown autistic meltdown trying to convince everybody that ACKS is a literal Nazi game and that everybody who touches it risks his life or something.That's not normal human behaviour. It is genuinely puzzling.
>>97565482>NEITHER IS WRONG.The wrong part comes from pretending one is wrong because you can feel the failings of your own style but have to do your best to deny them.BrOSR depends on a false dichotomy. For them, they need to pretend that it's games on one side, railroad stories on the other, because only in that false dichotomy is the games side clearly better. The reversed equivalent is putting fun adventures on one side, middleschool math problems on the other. The problem for the BrOSR is that in trying to establish a false dichotomy, that sent them headlong towards rejecting any story and actually embracing that a game should be a twelve-year-old's homework.Why BrOSR tried to make a false dichotomy is because, to be frank, the BrOSR style isn't that fun. It's randomly generated events loosely guided by players hoping to maximize profits while minimizing losses while keeping their risk exposure at manageable levels. If left at that, that's just a recipe for players wanting more and leaving. The only way to stop them is to try and convince them that the BrOSR way is the only REAL way. That all other ways are weaker, false, and people will think you're gay.That's why the majority of the OSR isn't anti-4th grade math and pro-railroad story (or viceversa), it's just pro-Play the Way You Want, and have grown to despise the BrOSR onetrvuway-ism.
>>97565835Oh my God shut up about ACKS already. Please. I am begging you. Shut up. Stop talking about it. YOU are driving the conversation about the game you hate.THE CITY OF GLASS!It’s a sort of low-rent City of Brass in the Plane of Water instead of the Plane of Fire. It’s known as the Sigil of the Elents. It’s from the adventure The Vortex of Madness and Other Planar Perils. What do you think of it? Think it works as a planar hub for Inner Planes adventures? Do you find the politics interesting? Have you ever used it in a game, or any of the Inner Planes?
>>97566095Okay!ARE YA DONE?!
>>97566064Please, spare us.I'm an impartial 3rd party. No money involved, no agenda; I'm not even a democrat or a republican if you think that matters.And, it's hard to see you act like you want people to see you as an impartial 3rd party. Leading questions, flat out lies, it's absolutely disgusting. I never thought I'd actually have any pride in being a neutral party, but I guess all it takes is someone trying to shame the very concept.If you're going to bullshit us, at least do it with some balls.
>>97566113>YOU are driving the conversation about the game you hate.He's obviously the same Anon who made a hundred almost identical posts last thread telling us that if we called this a general, the whole /tg/ board would explode. Now he's back and using one mention of ACKS as an excuse to shitpost the thread again with tens of posts in which he repeats the exact same thing over and over again.He's either the biggest troll or the biggest autist on the whole board. Possibly both.
>>97565118Okay now we're getting somewhere in determining what the look for a human male fighter should be.
>>97566113>>97566156Your lies and hypocrisy are insane.You bring up ACKS, and then cry when people shit on the game, begging them to stop talking about it.You spend dozens of posts trying ro push the /osrg/ Hickman lie about 2e in the /2eg/, and try to act like someone else is an autistic troll who repeats lies endlessly.You are the very troll that OP wanted to skin himself alive in order to avoid, and you still imagine you can act like this is your thread, let alone that you are welcome here.Fuck off back to the /osrg/.
>>97566156To be fair, you did immediately start shitposting in the /osrg/ and telling the people there who were discussing 2e there that they needed to post in the /2eg/ instead. You wanting to treat this general as a containment thread wasn't some wild conspiracy theory, you demonstrated that you think it aids you in your goal of removing 2e from its traditiinal home on this board.OP rather skinning himself than trying to discuss the game in its home because of you is a seperate matter, but it kind of defeats that purpose if you're just going to follow him.
>>97566234>You are the very troll that OP wanted to skin himself alive in order to avoid, and you still imagine you can act like this is your thread, let alone that you are welcome here.I'm like 90% certain that you're replying to the OP, you unbelievable retard.
>>97566267>your goal of removing 2e from its traditiinal home on this board.NAYRT but /osrg/ isn't 2e's traditional home on this board. It's never belonged there and we've always said so. It's good that the actual 2e lads have their own thread now, but it's very bad that you're trying to shitpost it to death out of pure salt.
>>97566280I think we can agree that those are not mutually exclusive. Remember: the previous efforts in making and bumping the /2eg/ were by trolls from the /osrg/. It would just be 5/5 or whatever the count is.
>>97566156/osrg/ tried to warn us about him. They were completely right it seems.I owe them an apology, I thought it was two groups of equally angry autists.But no, it's just one event horizon of autism that drags everything into its orbit.
>>97566288>if I just repeat lies, they'll become truth!Wrong. The archive shows 2e discussion predominantly occuring in the /osrg/, because outside of the K&KA and affiliated cults, 2e is widely recognized as an OSR game. Kind of would have to be, since the OSR movement began as a reaction to WotC dropping support for pre-3e editions.
>>97566327>if I just repeat horseshit that literally nobody believes for the 5431st time, it will work!No. Fuck off, Fishfag.
>>97566312Apology accepted. In your defense, it's hard to believe that a person this obsessively autistic could be capable of using a keyboard, until you're actually confronted with him.
>>975662882e is an OSR game. No reason it shouldn't be discussed in the /osrg/, which is why it was and likely will continue to be discussed there, even with all the efforts from BrOSR trolls.>>97566302I'm almost 100% convinced he always was just a ball-less troll trying out a new strategy to try and trick /tg/ since the previous /2eg/ were immediately called out as troll threads.Looking up at this one, it's actually kind of funny he kept saying he wanted to skin himself than be around the /osrg/ trolls, when those trolls spent more time here like that wasn't guaranteed to happen.
>>97566367>2e is an OSR game.I'm afraid not, no. Nobody has ever considered it one, and it cannot be for reasons often clarified. As such, it doesn't belong in /osrg/ and has always been directed elsewhere (usually politely before you came along).Two extensive explanations of this can be found here, if you're unclear on the topic:>http://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html>https://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com/2022/10/blog-osr-module-o5-2e-is-still-not-old.htmlThese are representative of the OSR community and describe the common consensus understanding that has always been in place, on and off this board.
>>97566367Just chalk it up as a new low. We're long past extending the benefit of the doubt to anything even close to alligning with trollcow's agenda.It was dumb as a lie that it was his motivation for creating a /2eg/, but the part about not wanting to post in the /osrg/ because of the trolls there did have that kernal of truth to it.
>>97566267>OP rather skinning himself than trying to discuss the game in its home because of you is a seperate matter, but it kind of defeats that purpose if you're just going to follow him.Won't lie. I doubted OP, but I at least thought the /osrg/ trolls would stay out of this thread so as to not raise further doubts. Give us a respite.I also won't lie. I've started cheating on /tg/, talking OSR on other websites. I feel bad, cause it's fucking refreshing not to deal with the BrOSR trolls who know shit about RPGs and just rattle off rules at each other like they imagine that's how real people talk.Coming back to /tg/ and seeing the state of the /osrg/ and now whatever the fuck those trolls are trying in these threads is the sort of shit that makes me miss even just six months ago.
>>97566355So, I dread to ask this but why do you call him Fishfag anyway?
>>97566519>Won't lie. I doubted OP, but I at least thought the /osrg/ trolls would stay out of this thread so as to not raise further doubts.That would require intelligence. The only thing I'm impressed by is how hard they resisted just calling everyone fishfag.
>>97566577You're talking to the ACKShill, famous for telling a boring story about his players selling fish and then eventually having the funniest meltdown over people calling it boring.When people called the story boring, he had a wild tantrum, and that's when the ACKShill began calling everyone "fishfag." He continued doing that in later threads to anyone who criticized ACKS, and eventually even extending that to anyone who disagreed with him in any way.When ACKS launched a more recent kickstarter, ACKShill actually went around the board, trying to promote the game. He posted in the /5eg/ and got swiftly told to fuck off and his posts were deleted, and then tried in the /3eg/, where the residents there instead began to mock the shit out of him and his game. Eventually, the bullying got so bad, that the ACKShill posted perhaps that aforementioned funniest meltdown.
>>97566606No, I'm not talking to you, I'm talking about you.Because you're clearly the one sperging out about hating ACKS, so anything to do with someone saying something positive about ACKS is probably the one I want answers from.Go away and let other people have a discussion without you cutting in like the rude little toad you are.
>>97566234You are responding to two different Anons.The first one is me.I am also OP.I did not create the last thread. I saw the thread existed, went into it thinking that maybe there could finally be a 2e thread not consumed with OSR/Not OSR bullshit, and discovered that no, it was the same shit as always.So I resolved to make the next /2eg/ thread and deliberately showed off my intense OP that was SPECIFICALLY trying to create a place for 2e that didn’t CARE about OSR turf wars, because *I* don’t care about OSR turf wars.This is not an anti-OSR thread. This is not an anti-ACKS thread. This is just the thread for 2e and like games, and their settings, and ther lore, and their vidya, and anything else, as long as it’s connected to 2e in some way.“I find this table from ACKS useful in my 2e games”?THAT IS ON TOPIC.That was always intended to be on topic.This is NOT a place of exclusion and was ever intended ti be by me.I had a whole thing in the last thread about wanting the /2eg/ to be as open as possible.You are not helping.So please. I am begging you. Just stop. Just accept that people play games you don’t like but that it’s not your job or responsibility to force them to change, and that by trying you are driving me, someone who is GENUINELY, SINCERELY trying to get away from the turf wars, insane.It’s not about who started it, Anon, it’s about who’s willing to be the one to stop.Are you?
>>97566627You really need to drop the whole "the people who dislike ACKS are the one's at fault!" act, along with pretending everyone who dislikes it is one person. It's not convincing at all, because the thread above has most of the sperging coming from the ACKS shills, who also happen to be the guys sperging out about Hickman, and who also pretty much are guaranteed to be the guys who sperg out all the time in the /osrg/ about how much they love ACKS and hate 2e.
>>97566654If you are the OP, then I have no doubts left. Feel dumb having had any at all.>>97566438No harm in extending the benefit of the doubt for one thread. Seeing it really was just going to be /osrg trolls 2.0/ and OP having been one of them all along is good to have confirmed.
>>97566643>>97566724I'm not sure what you were expecting.Did you not see the previous /2eg/'s? Why would OP saying he wants to cut his own balls off because he hates posting in the /osrg/ so much make this one different?
>>97566654>“I find this table from ACKS useful in my 2e games”?>THAT IS ON TOPIC.Just to expand on this a little.Someone comes into this thread, says, “hey, I really like the Humanity system from World of Darkness, I think it reflects morality better than Alignment, here’s how I would implement it into 2e”, and posts some homebrew mishmash of 2e and WoD rules?That’s on topic!Someone comes into this thread and says, “I never liked the spell schools in AD&D, I’m more of a Magic: the Gathering fan, so here’s a link to a PDF of all the 2e spells sorted into Magic’s color pie”.That’s on topic!Someone comes into this thread and says “hey I really like the artificer class in 5e, anyone wanna help me homebrew a 2e version?”That’s on topic!Someone comes in and says “Hahahah I hate my life, I had the idea to start converting FATAL’s races to 2e, here they are”?Still on topic!
>>97566577We call him Fishfag because his insane and repeated tantrums about ACKS came to a head when an anon running a game in ACKS told a wholly inoffensive anecdote about how he had once had use of the ACKS economics and trade rules when his PCs caught a bunch of fish, smoked them, sold them at a profit elsewhere, and used the proceeds to hire henchmen for another dungeon expedition. Anon explained that the trade rules had made this very easy and quick to adjudicate, and Fishfag here threw an absolutely massive ing-bing about it, a furious seethefest which earned him the nickname of Fishfag to mock him. Which worked well enough that he seethes about it to this day and he keeps trying to invent these ridiculous names like "trollcow" for the rest of us in retaliation. It doesn't work, however, since it's based on nothing and nobody is offended.(And the anon running the game, mind you, wasn't even some sort of dogmatic ACKS worshipper; his later posted actual play PDF of the whole campaign starts with him going "I threw these parts out, I changed this shit, I thought that rule was crap so I ignored it".)
well it was fun for a bit while all the usual posters clashing in Holy Wars about 3 letters still pretended to be somebody completely else.naturally they couldn't keep their resolve once someone farted into the general ACKS direction, outing themselves as the usual suspects
>the osrg trolls' masks drops as soon as ACKS is ridiculedGood to know for people who genuinely want to avoid them.
>>97566848 >>97566807You’re not helping.
>>97566848What would actually be useful would be something to say to get them to leave.
>>97566860That's just another one of his habits, he doubleposts everything to make it look like there's more than one of him, never mind that "both" of them always disappear at the same time for example. He used to do it within ludicrously tight tolerances, like 1-2 minutes, until he got mocked for that, so now he posts at wider intervals because he thinks it's more plausibly deniable.
>>97566860You've given no one any reason to trust you and every reason to doubt you.I don't want to help you. I'd rather help the people of this board, particularly the ones who actually despise the trolls in the /osrg/.
See what I mean?>>97566807>>97566848>ten minutes apart>>97566865>>97566941>fifteen minutes apart
>>97566941Doubt me over *what*, my desire to have a place for 2e and related systems and media to be discussed? My desire to be FREE of the turf wars over on the /oath/ because I can’t tell the sides apart anymore and no longer care enough to try?I have had an extremely consistent tone across these past two threads: I don’t want to exclude anything. I want to invite in anything that can in any way be connected to 2e. In the last thread I was arguing with someone who was insisting that the OP needed a diatribe about 2e setting lore because I didn’t want people to think this thread was just for that. I pushed back against an OP that tried to emphasize a “style” because I didn’t want to be seen as picking a fight with the OSR crowd. I pointed out that most Generals don’t have mission statements or justification for their own existence, they just go something like, “Warhammer Fantasy General! Here’s like a million links! Go nuts!”I just want a place to talk about 2e and Buck Rogers and Hackmaster and Baldur’s Gate 1. I just want a place for homebrew nonsense.What exactly about me suggests an ulterior motive beyond that?
>>97566865It'd be nice if there was something.But, they would need to develop personal shame first. All they have is shame over how bad their game is.
>Fishfag outright states that his goal is to shit up these threads>Some poor, naive bastard mentions ACKS in passing>Sees his chance to ramp up into a total sperg out, takes it, samefags and fucks up the entire thread with his usual bullshit mixed with conspiracy theories about his persecution delusionsI'm sorry this is happening to all of you lads, you don't deserve it.Just remember, if you let him scream you out of having a decent thread, he'll never, ever stop doing so if you try to have one again.
>>97566978You're trying to reason with some who is simultaneously insane, retarded, and a troll. He genuinely believes that everybody who doesn't post sixty messages sperging out over a single passing mention of a game he doesn't like is part of a conspiracy. Last thread everybody was "trollcow". This thread everybody is "acksshill". Next thread he will have another excuse to shit everything up. All because we didn't agree to be his personal army in his war against osrg.
>>97567038No one said anything about shitting up any threads, and most of the shitting was meta-board shit done by you in an effort to stop people pointing out ACKS's flaws after you tried recommending it for something it was ill-suited for.Now, you're right back to trying meta-board shit again, all while expecting people to listen to your story and ignore the thread that shows how full of shit you are.Just go back to the /osrg/ and stay there.
>>97567131Anon. You have pointed out ACKS’s flaws. You can *stop* now. You will not be the lesser man if you do so.
>>97567128ACKShill/Trollcow/etc., you got those nicknames because you tried wearing different masks and different people gave you a nickname accordingly. You were the one to reveal that all those names fell to the same person, mostly by you attacking everyone in the same fashion and even crying about all the mean nicknames you're getting.
>>97567193Okay, you’ve called Anon out. You can *stop* now, because you must know that continuously responding to a troll is exactly the fuel that they want.So please, STOP.
>>97567193Last thread you were calling every Anon who didn't have a problem with a 2e general existing "trollcow".This thread you are calling an Anon "ACKSshil" because he said he used ONE TABLE out of that book, and you're also calling that everybody who's kindly asking you to please change topic.You are calling literally everybody all of your nicknames. Take your fucking meds and fuck off.
>>97566978giving you the benefit of the doubt you should then just use OSRG since 2e is an old school edition and is just as compatible with 1e as 1e is compatible with basic and OD&D...wait... actually 2e is much more compatible with 1e then 1e is with basic/OD&Dyes there are retards (and I mean actual retards, not as "internet slang retards") who would insist 2e isn't an old school edition, just ignore and report for trollingRealistically speaking there is never going to be enough interest to keep an entire 2e thread alive. Dividing old-school fanbase is simply retarded.
>>97567278>you should then just use OSRG
>>97567278>you should then just use OSRG since 2e is an old school edition and is just as compatible with 1e as 1e is compatible with basic and OD&DYes. Sure. I agree. But the problem is that the /osrg/ is a wretched hive of edition war bullshit. I can’t tell the sides apart anymore. I no longer have the emotional bandwidth necessary to try. As previously mentioned, many times - I’d rather skin myself alive.But here’s the thing. The existence of a /2eg/ doesn’t stop people from posting in the /osrg/. People can post in BOTH. It’s *fine*. No one is going to report you to the FBI for doing so. This doesn’t have to “divide” anything, we are not the Bloods and the Crips, we do not have to fight over turf.>Realistically speaking there is never going to be enough interest to keep an entire 2e thread aliveI am willing to test that theory. Now could you please, PLEASE, just let me try?
Does anyone know of a trove of all the 2e books? I only have what is available in the osr trove and that is very selective and lacking
>>97566392>Nobody has ever considered it oneThe dumb faggot says while being told that 2e is OSR.
>>97566392I always connect all TSR D&D to the OSR and I am tired of people trying to cordon 2e off.
>>97566806How does 2e and it being OSR stuff fit into your butthurt that someone did not like a story about fishing?
>>97567338There used to be one, but it seems to have disappeared into the aether. However most 2e books can be found online just by a simple Google search of Title + PDF.Also there’s a surprisingly complete 2e fan wiki for rules stuff, which I need to remember to put in the next OP as it’s excellent for quick reference.https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_2nd_Edition_Wiki
>>97567278>Realistically speaking there is never going to be enough interest to keep an entire 2e thread aliveSince it was first posted, this general has been moving faster than the OSR general and it's offshoots
>>97567193>different people
>>97567623Yeah, I think we're pretty healthy over here. Several of us are not posting, or not posting as much, because we're annoyed by the noise schizomod is making. Hopefully he gets run over by a truck by the time next thread is posted.
>>97567623A lot of that is trolls and people dumb enough to respond to them.But I’m still willing to keep trying to make a genuine /2eg/, because I want a thread that expressly *does not care* about whether or not 2e counts as OSR. Because I don’t care. But there are enough people on the /osrg/ who care, whether “enough” is “a majority” or “one really loud and persistent troll”. And I’m tired of dealing with them.
>>97567717>22 posts deleted >100+ just arguing about nothing >pretty healthy Fish you're retarded.
>>97567278>giving you the benefit of the doubtYou shouldn't have.
>>97565482>NEITHER IS WRONGincorrect. D&D is as I described, so spake the pope
>>97554186Know this, parts are missing. I mean that as in, the way it's written, you can tell there was supposed to be set up and it's not there. Such as the Formorian giants part where you're supposed to go seek help from the green dragon an negotiate a deal. But there's no where that any of the 'solution' is even vaguely hinted at, yet the way it's written you get the feeling that there was a bunch of info the party was supposed to come across.So read the whole thing. Yes, all of it. Before starting. You've got some lifting to do,The kidnapped apprentice. Let them find her early. Not right away, but with some other captives of the orcs. Otherwise the 'payoff' is a sarcastic one-liner and a gimped npc. Not worth it.Be ready for the pcs to reject the whole "you need to work with evil against a greater evil!" theme that they press so hard. Don't force it. Don't rail road.
>>97564924cringe, im reporting you to lord macris
>>97565883>justification for why he can claim 2e is not an OSR gameno justification needed -- it's not an OSR game
>>97566142fuck off, fishfag>>97566234acks is based and belongs in every thread.dilate
>>97566327>The archive shows 2e discussion predominantly occuring in the /osrg/go ahead and show us some proof
>>97567278Brother, I went into osrg thinking it was okay to ask about 2e, they jumped down my throat about it and I had to explain that I'm not a troll and was new. I was then told 2e isn't osrg. That place has been a total shit hole all they do is argue.
>>97567843>That place has been a total shit holeGiven the bullshit you see going on in this thread can you blame them? They've been putting up with this bullshit for who knows how long.
Just ignore the trolls
>>97567278>>97567739The only credit I can give him is that he's at least self-aware enough to recognize how much everyone dislikes the trolls in what's left of the /osrg/. That part is believable.The "both sides look equally bad to me" part isn't, when one side just wants to talk about 2e in the /osrg/ and the other side throws a tantrum over what OSR games people want to discuss. He is just a troll trying to feign neutrality while making the same general the troll has made to try and further split the OSR.For a guy who "just doesn't care", he should learn to not care about what the trolls in the /osrg/ say and stop pretending they're not the most obvious shits on this site. Another huge "Is this guy fucking serious?" flag.
>>97567853Yeah: you could mistakenly think that "golly, those guys sure are argumentative", then you come here or any other thread where fishfag feels he needs to samefag post post post and it suddenly becomes quite clear what (who) the real problem is. Maybe the mods will wake up after the 984376987th report and catch a clue.
>>97567843Ignore them. It's that easy.Because you're gonna have to eat their lies regardless of where you go.
>>97566643FUCK OFF FISHFAG
>>97567877Why are you even acting like it's still on the table whether OP is a retard or not.Even if he is "genuine" about just wanting a /2eg/, which I doubt, he is very much a retard.
>>97566683>NOOOO YOU CANT JUST LIKE AND DISCUSS GAMES, YOU HAVE TO SHIT YOUR PANTS LIKE A SCHIZO RETARD WHEN THEY GET MENTIONEDfuck off, fishfag you literal nevergames
>>97566790>he thinks transplanting an entirely mechanically incompatible system from a non-D&D based game is equal to using a table you like from a BX derived gameholy fuck youre genuinely one of the stupidest nogames posters Ive seen. Show us one of your character sheets.
>>97567926>no, you can't just dislike a game and discuss it honestly, you gotta have a meta tantrum in a thread made specifically to avoid you! There's no end to you is there.
