I've read archived travel threads, blogs, and I'm working on finding ways to make travel more interesting. Let's share ideas:1. Tracking rations is easy (hash marks) and probably better than usage die (lacks forethought necessary to travel). The main advantage of tracking rations is twofold: A) it creates complications/problems to solve B) it adds to the immersion of journeying2. Hexes are good, but there's probably a better way. Knowing exactly how long it takes to travel somewhere is a modern concept. Maps are imperfect. Distance is not measured in hexes. This adds complexity to #1 because rations become harder to plan for (is the journey 20 or 30 days? Hard to say exactly)3. Travel roles are interesting and give people specific things to do. But rolling each day is probably a little tedious. I think breaking journeys up into "legs" based on a discrete terrain feature is more interesting4. Travelling should be a puzzle to solve rather than pointing at a map and watching the resources drain. I'm not sure how to do this, but I think making each leg of a journey into a decision with risks/benefits and room for creative problem solving would add a lot to travel.5. Camping, comraderies, and downtime during travel should be encouraged and rewarded mechanically. Cooking recently hunted foods and telling a story about your past should garner even temporary benefits for the next leg of the journey.>TQ: Give me your favorite travel ideas, systems, and thoughts
>>975617556. I don't want players to pick hexes, but I do think having a map with mysterious locations or terrain features is interesting. Part of travel should be plotting the route, picking up rumors on how to get from point A to B to C and discovering sites along the way7. Discovering sites should be incentivized by the system itself. Whether through reward of treasure, player-specific reward (such as domain play), culture-specific rewards (the local lord will pay handsomely for better maps), or simply XP.8. "Encounters" should be more than meeting a wild animal or group of bandits. Encounters should also be neutral or even positive encounters
>>97561755You're gaming it too much for my taste, but do your thing. My players get a map w/ only the things they know marked on it. I have a map with lots of other stuff on it. I add to their map as they discover things. It's a generic fantasy frontier world (or is it muwahahaha). Here's where their map started.I handle travel organically. They're responsible for having food and blah blah, but it's all handled loosely. I throw encounters and challenges at them that I rarely have pre-planned solutions for. There's flash-flooding along the road through the hills. What do they do? Their response is more about giving them a chance to engage and show off and do things outside combat than presenting any kinda mechanical challenges, but I'll call for rolls as appropriate.
>>97561832And here's my version of that same map.
>>97561839And then here's their version of their map, where we last left off.
>>97561755I'd disagree on the advantage of rations over usage die. Rations are more immersive, in the sense that the party knows exactly how much food they have, but usage die is far better for creating complications/problems. Bad die rolls can result in the party running low on supplies far more readily, and downgrading the die can be used as a penalty for certain events.It's far more abstract, and disliking it is valid, but it lends itself better to those sorts of dramatic moments far more precisely because it's more abstracted.>>97561757>8. "Encounters" should be more than meeting a wild animal or group of bandits. Encounters should also be neutral or even positive encountersOne thing that I find works well is when a random encounter is a location. Spotting smoke from a fire or a crumbling watchtower off of the path, which the PCs can then divert towards and engage with on their own terms. Even if it is a group of bandits, being able to trace back to their camp adds more to the encounter than just an ambush.
>>97561832>>97561839>>97561844This sounds fairly similar to what I'm trying to achieve. I especially like how you have separate maps. Excellently done maps, as well (it's nice to see non-retarded rivers). I think when you handwave things you lose something, right? A popular solution to "make travel interesting" is to handwave everything except encounters. Looks something like this: Players say they want to go from point A to B, GM thinks of a few challenges for them to deal with on their journey, that's it. But, some of us really enjoy the immersion you get from imagining/planning/simulating what it might be like going out into the wilds. How much pemmican do you pack? Do you take a donkey? What happens if it lames? Are we sure the map is right? Are we sure the route is clear? How long will it take us to get there? What happens if we encounter weather?>>97561845I'm willing to rethink my take on resource die. I'll be honest, the only game I used resource die on was Forbidden Lands. The party was never really at any risk of running out of rations. Ever. I do think it achieves something that discrete tracking of rations does: it's unlikely that parties engage in spartan discipline and ration tracking. Those three days of rations might end up only being two... now what? My appraoch would be to include a "quartermaster" role and allow for a complication of that roll to include early loss of rations.I completely agree with your approach to random encounters. I think sites are far more interesting, necessarily than "encounters as combat".Thank you for offering thoughtful replies to my threat /tg/ents. Nice to see this board is still able to produce good conversation.
>>97561905I don't handwave "everything but encounters," but I don't get bogged down in logistics, either. Certainly there's a place for a table interested in that, though. If folks are into it and you're all having fun? It prolly doesn't feel like getting bogged down at all.I give descriptions of the weather, the trail and conditions, specifics about animals and flora. Paint a picture for the players, but briefly. It helps that I do a lot of camping and (when I was younger and in better shape) week-or-two backpacking trips. Gives you something to draw on.There's a balance you can strike. I think that what's important is giving the players the option to participate. I mention the fields and farms and fruits and animals and fish in the river. They decide when they want to get involved. I don't really dig simulating Oregon Trail. They pass farms and I tell them who else is on the road. One of those added locations in the 3rd map is just a random-ass homestead they decided to get involved in and change the lives of the people who dwelt there. The gorge became a thing because they didn't want to spend two days walking around because I dunno why the hell, but it became a very complex feat of engineering.
>>97561755you seem to be considering traveling with exploration. Travel time was a known thing since pretty much forever at least on land where you aren't beholden to the winds whims. The next town was 3 days walk for example. People knew that and planned around it if they had to travel. Merchants and pilgrims knew either from experience or word of mouth how far something is and certain roads existed as well so they knew the route they would follow pretty much
>>97561755You said it yourself. People back then didn't have accurate maps so just dont show your hex map to the players. You are the GM. the map is yours, they go through the terrain and the hex map gives you a procedural way to handle this exploration
>>97561755>Travel roles are interestingNot really. They followfollow the "frpntload all the interesting choices in the setup, and then laboriously execute the script" school of game design. If you want it to be engaging, decisions need to be made during travel.Unless you're counting each day as a round, in which case go nuts I guess. But it sounds like you'd prefer something more granular.
>>97562286Not OP, but the main thing travel rolls are good for is ensuring everyone at the table participates. If you just have events during travel, but every event is best solved by the party ranger, then everyone at the table is just watching the ranger play while they follow along.If the ranger needs to choose between navigating, scouting, foraging, etc. then the rest of the table has to participate.
>>97561934Forgive me, I wasn’t trying to reduce your approach. I think this is a reasonable approach. I suppose I’m looking for something deeper without resorting to daily resource checks. A medium crunch>>97561984This is fair. Things like “getting lost” should be nearly impossible if there’s a single well maintained road between destinations
>>97562324Nah I get it--I didn't think you were. I was just saying that there's a middle ground.
>>97561755More "interesting" than good (because I haven't tried it). I read recently about a homebrew where the GM was handwaving rations and the like. Instead, towns generate problems as do certain hexes. So you pitch up in town and via a die roll you can't leave until (paraphrasing)>you will need to make X gold to buy travel supplies >you will need to get information about conditions ahead from a sage or reputable person>X item needs replacing, so you need either money or the favour of a relevant professional So every time the players go to town things are refreshed but they'll need to engage with the town as a place to progress. Wilderness obstacles like desert hexes were more>roll skill, if you fail you have to go a different route and can't retry until you've been to a town (to get supplies or info, whatever makes sense)
>>97562765I dont understand fucking around with food and water rations. They are the simplest and easiest resource to track.
>>97562807I think it's to avoid players who take resource scarcity as a prompt to just stripmine the setting in short loops (length equals resource endurance/2) and getting really numerically minded. Instead resources are the abstract reason for objectives handed down when you get to objectives. I know for my group that they're the "never drink potions" types and any kind of scarcity makes them into number crunchers with no imaginative connection to the setting.
>>97562306I think you can have your cake and also eat it, in this instance. Like for example>the ranger needs to choose between navigating, scouting, foraging, etcThis is exactly the kind of choice that can easily be presented on a round-to-round basis as much as a blanket routine. In one hex/space/turn you might have>thick canopies overhead, requiring the navigator to do a little climbing to get a good lay of the surroundings>camouflaged denizens, the telltale trails of which can only be detected by the most knowledgeable scouts>rare fruits hidden in the foliage, that a forager might chance on if they keep their eyes peeledSo you stick your wiry character in the nav role, your bushcraft-smart character as scout, and your sharpsighted one does the foraging. But next hex comes along, and:>the sparsely-wooded hillocks all look identical here, leaving only the sun's angle to aid in your calculations>each crest gives you a good view of the immediate vicinity, but gives the best advantage to those with good eyesight>boar can be hunted here, but prepare for a merry chase (or even a fight) if you can't get the drop on themAnd suddenly the set lineup is looking rather sub-optimal. If the ranger has to choose between using their archery to potentially net some rabbits, or secure a safe path devoid of rattlesnake nests; that's something you wanna present to the players as it appears as it happens in game, rather than playing it out based on a previously set script. A travel role, after all, is just a procedure for answering "what do you do"?
I know DnD 5e is terrible blah blah blah. But the Middle Earth Dnd 5e Journey Rules are insanely good. Each party member is assigned a roll and the journey is calculated based on the peril level. More perilous equals more challenges and higher DC. During challenges some players each need to contribute and the degree of success is determined by how many succeed or a challenge might only involve one rollFailing a challenge might result in a combat encounter or worse, exhaustion. The mechanic is heavily based around exhaustion which you cannot get rid of in Dnd. The optional journey rules prevent taking long rests on the journey because it is too dangerous, typy must be in a location considered safe. And long rests take a week anyways as a rule variant. You can fine the 5e middle earth books in Anyflip. Cannot remember if thw journey rules are in the players book or GM book
>>97563156Additionally you do not have to track rations, they are more of an abstraction You might find a challenge where your food is low or spoiled or otherwise inedible so the Hunter role has to forage. Failure results in a starving status the rest if the journey and you gain a level of exhaustion. You can seriously just die on the journey itself if its brutal enough
gurps dungeon fantasy wilderness 16 gives some concepts for gamefying travel.
>>97561755Hex map is the way friend. Don't show the hex map to your players, make them draw their own map over the entire campaign.Also, what I do is secretly split each hex into Four "Quadrants" and a "center", so that on any given 6 mile hex, I can tell you whether a feature is on the northern, southern, east, west, or center part of that hex... But again, I only reveal to my players where something is in relation to other landmarks they can see or estimate.As far as everything else goes, it's just a matter of keeping track on paper and time, and having good procedure for determining how much of X you used while going Y distance in Z time. And any variable conditions like weather, illness, and random encounters go on behind the scenes. On a 1 they encounter something in their path, use a d10 in town, a d8 in peaceful lands, and a d6 in wilderness, and roll twice per day in particularly dangerous regions. Keep a seperate 2d6 table for each region regarding what they could possibly run into. 2 (two 1s) is always the region's Wizard or sorcerer, 12 (two sixs) is always the region's dragon (Or signs of a wizard or dragon.)
>>97563301tell me more
>>97561755>>97561757>So many words>To say "I'm a clueless idiot"It all unironically depends on the game, setting and the goal/style of the campaign.You would know, if you ever played anything at fucking all>Give me your favorite travel ideasRiver exploration>SystemsLiterally any system will do, as long as you keep distances travelled abstraction, rather than "muh hexes are X leagues across" autism>thoughtsStart playing games, they are fun
>>97565385>It all unironically depends on the game, setting and the goal/style of the campaign.Eh. That's not entirely wrong. There are certainly some games that have very specific rules around travel. And there are a minority of groups that, when playing those games, follow those rules rather than handling travel the way they learned to from other games.But the vast majority of tables handle travel the way they know how to, which almost always means "like we did in X edition of D&D." And the vast majority of games also present travel the way people are used to, which almost always means "like you do in X edition of D&D."The hysterical cries of "you must be a nogames if you don't agree with me on the internet" are stupid and annoying. Shut up.
>>97561755>2. Hexes The hexes are an abstract measurement to make gameplay procedures smoother. They're not the map, they're an overlay. Don't measure distance in hexes outloud to the players ever. Don't assume the path through the hex is a straight line. >better way if you want travel, rather than exploration, point crawls could work but I don't particularly like them for how limiting they are. I've experimented with drawing pregenerated locations and encounters from a deck but it make the game world inevitably less cohesive. Player generated on the ply has similarly fragmented results. >3. Travel Rolls, travel legs You're already at point crawls. YDY but at that point tracking rations is no longer relevant and doesn't jive with your interest in them in number 1. >4. puzzles Yeah, just do point crawls man. 6, 7 & 8 all point you that way.
