Get squatting editionPrevious Thread:>>97237452Check out here for useful links and a catalogue of relevant miniatures retailers:https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLnThe Rogue Trader magazine article compilation:https://mega.nz/file/C4oSnArA#sA2O_7V6OnhZCOLCf0Sba1KW_wao3pZvc6IUmlHvpsk
Squats are one of the most quintessentially oldhammer armies. Probably because they were legendarily, Squatted. As nobody but one guy really cared about them and then they left the company and really their niche was found and replaced with Tau in 3rd. and I mean the niche they found doing well in with the bikers was covered better with battlesuits, the guardsmen but better because they're dwarfs thing never really gelled that well. Ethereals replaced living ancestors.
In Oldhammer stuff they really found their working character in Epic more than anything, where they got to play with more interesting toys.This was apparently a big surprise to Jervis and Andy developing Epic when 3rd edition came along and they were dropped there, as Squats were an afterthought up at the studio. Woops. They got a Citadel Journal army list fairly promptly. And remained covered into Epic: Armageddon in an extended way though out of production.But the way Epic worked just gave the Squats space to actually have some character of their own. No titans, not tank swarms like the Imperial guard, but rock solid infantry backed up by a variety of interesting giant war machines and fast moving formations, and different forms of artillery support meant they played quite differently.
Problem was those weird egg armour biker lancer guys just don't really seem that cool in 28mm. But would have been hell trying to make/sell an army of mech suits back in the late '80s with softer lead-pewter minis so not like they could have gone the tau battlesuit route for them even if they wanted. Something only as bulky as Terminator armour was enough of a problem for them it took a bunch of designs to make something workable.
On a Squat related point, they really did get their Dwarf aesthetic down early and of all the model ranges, Dwarfs are generally the most consistently good looking of even their oldest miniatures.Elves it took them a while to get consistently good, humans were often wonky armoured or otherwise chaos or not. Space Marines had problems and took a couple of years to get consistent. Orcs and other monster-y types could be a bit iffy but well Kev Adams basically nailed it into place, but multiple sculptors all worked on the Dwarf ranges and turned out consistently good miniatures.
>>97451700 is still up but whatever, hello
>>97628674u sure about that?
>>97628626>On a Squat related point, they really did get their Dwarf aesthetic down early and of all the model rangesA shame it was all sacrificed on the altar of modernity
>>97628425To be fair iirc they were also slow as shit making buying their version of the rhino a must but they were still good at melee unlike tau. They could coesist like they do in epic armageddon.
On an unrelated note, it will be 40 years of 40k next year. Are any of you planning anything for that? Since projects tend to take their sweet fucking time to get ready and get going, it's often a good idea to think ahead.>>97628882At least Squats are still squats in Necromunda.I don't touch modern Necromunda because just WTF is going on with that mess, but I appreciate someone over there gives a fuck about whatever hot shit it is they're up to. And kept them as Squats there specifically distinct from the leagues of whatever.
>>97628410Hey, /GROG/. I know it's an off-topic post, but there's no better place to ask. Oldhammer forums do not have a place for such a question, and I'd be damned befor I'll go into Facebook.Thing is, everyone and everything around me recommend me that new Owlcat's Rogue Trader game. Well, the question is: how is it from the Oldhammer's fan perspective? Someone here must have played it.I have huge doubts about it, both because I just do not have much faith in modern videogames in general, and because I profoundly despise everything that happened with WH40K during the last 26 years. And especially in the last 15 years. Fucking primaris, Great Rift, Cadia getting destroyed, fucking primaris, et cetera...So, yeah... in a nutshell, how bearable that new Rogue Trader is through the Oldhammer lens? Should I try it, or forget all about it and just get to Rites Of War instead?
>>97631014The videa is based on the fantasy flight ttrpg rendition rather than the original GW wargame with rpg elements. Its pretty different.
Anons, how does one build a list in Rogue Trader? I want to play the game but the rulebook is quite dense and I'm struggling.
>>97635620What army? There are various army specific lists released in white dwarf & the Realm of Chaos books, etc. Perhaps I can direct you towards the one you need.
>>97636131Just space marines vs chaos marines (if possible) for the sake of playing the game. Could maybe finagle some Orks or Chaos Daemons.
>>97635620Take this with a grain of salt as I've never played RT (started 40k about 8 months after 2nd came out) but have owned all the books for decades. There are four types of entities in the game;>personalitiesA single hero that acts on there own.>unitA group of 5-10 models that act as one group together and must be in cohesion. >unit with personality Like a unit but contains a personality that acts with the unit and must stay in cohesion with the unit.>otherVehicles, dreadnoughts, and robots act as a singular character.>Pure RT with GMBRB only, GM creates a scenario and eyeballs two balanced forces and sets victory conditions known only to that involved player. GM builds the list. Unit composition examples are in the background section starting around page 137. GM has the option to random roll equipment.>Pure RT NO GMBRB only, Players agree on a scenario and victory conditions. To try to balance the game the players agree on a point value and build /their dudes/ using the point values on page 58. Unit composition examples are in the background section starting around page 137. Player can agree to use the option to random roll equipment.>RT with DLC, RT 1.5 editionCollect the supplement books. They have pre-made units and personalitys with set point values. Some orginization lists. Also a number of changes and erratas to the main rules.Hope this is somewhat useful I went flipping through my books to remind myself. Hopefully if I'm wrong on something another anon will correct it. Pic of my 1st edition set, but like a dumb ass I forgot to add the seige book.
>>97636413Okay then, looks as though there's a bit more work required than just building a regular 40K list, but that's not a bad thing. Thank you for the page references, I'll look into them and see what I can come up with.Thanks a ton anon. Nice collection you've got there by the way.
>>97636439BRB is a mess, as for the books;>Chapter approved Pre-made scenarios with force list. Army list for Maines, Guard, Squats, Rogue Trader, Pirates (Imperium), Mercenaries, Orks, Eldar Raiders, Imperial Agents.>Compilation Army list for Grey Knights, Terminators, Traitor Terminators, Commissar training squads, Eldar Army list, Genestealer Cult Army list. Space Marine lore, Eldar Lore, Genestealer Cult Lore.>CompendiumMarine lore, Imperial Guard Lore. Revised Dreadnought rules. Eldar war walker, spirt warriors and ghost warriors rules. Revised vehicle rules. Imperial vehicle profile rules. Revised shooting deviation rules. Crater rules. Revised robot rules. More Marine Army list. More Imperial Guard Army list. More Squat Army list. Harlequin Troup list.>'Ere we goProper Ork Army list book.>FreebootersOrk Army list book for specialist and not so proper Orks.>Waaargh OrksLore book about Orks, no rules or unit. Can be skipped if you don't care about Ork Kulture.>Battle ManualRevised weapon stats. Revised shooting rules, Revised hand to hand rules. Weapon effect templates.>Realm of Chaos Slaves to DarknessBRB for Khorne and Slaanesh for use with Fantasy, 40k, and WHFRP.>Realm of Chaos Lost and the DamnedBRB for Nurgle and Tzeentch for use with Fantasy, 40k, and WHFRP.>Vehicle ManualRevised vehicle damage and movement rules>SeigeFantasy and 40k book about fortification rules and seige campaign play.In short RT BRB only plays like a historical game. The other books make it more like what a modern player would think. I will claim that it can be said there is a 1.5 edition just due to ALL the changes during its life cycle.
>>97636715Awesome, thanks for the run down on the books. I have scans of about half of that stuff, I don't suppose you know of an archive where I could grab the rest?Also, if you happen to have an opinion on the topic, is it worth playing Rogue Trader over modern-esque RT clones like Renegade Scout etc?
>>97636727Not that anon but it can definitely be worth a go, just for the experience. RT is a clunky fucker and well, really not that great in design because it was being shoved together at great haste and some chunks of it are complete crap; but it is absolutely playable, and its clunk is importantly on the side of comprehensible as it's trying to model things in a way that represents them directly. I genuinely would argue that this makes it perversely easier to learn than modern 40k which is abstracted to all fuck in its concepts and rules interactions. RT might have charts and charts and charts, but don't let that scare you as the charts are all trying for that same goal of conveying things in the setting acting how they're supposed to, rather than for some idea of meta-gameplay effects and interactions. You're not gonna need to know everything about the game before you play in order to play.Though as a noob trap to avoid: battle at the farm is a seriously unbalanced scenario so yanno maybe avoid that or if you do play it, beef up the Ork side considerably with like a dreadnought or a couple of buggies. And a little bit more terrain. And also don't worry about sticking too close to the published army lists, shit like the Guard one has a mandated 1100ish points of basic boring ass infantry to try and deal with if you go down that route which leaves you fucked if you want to try doing anything interesting in a reasonable sized game. Same goes for all the randomisation rolls. Build your armies with your opponent present, going for a particular scenario. You're always going to have to put in some work. And don't forget to name those characters that are about to get turned into paste by a random heavy bolter round. And if nothing else it'll make you appreciate the streamlining in RS and give you a better understanding of how to convert over material for it if you get that far.
>>97637044Thank you for the information anon, especially that bit about Battle at the Farm as I was going to use it as a first time players encounter.
>>97636241Realm of Chaos : Slaves to Darkness, is the book you need. It's also my personal favorite. It has rules for chaos marines & grey knights, which would be an adequate substitute/promotion for space marines if you plan to involve daemons in the game as they have the necessary weapons to combat them. If you want the army list for just regular space marines it can be found in the 1989 40k Compendium, or in WD issue #105.
Spegs and Sperglings, which version of old Epic is the best? I know most people play the new fanmade version of Epic or LI these days, but me and my mates want to go back and play one of the old ones to experience it and get a taste of a game we never got to play.I think this is the one we should try? Epic from 1997. Beyond a few Firepower Magazines everything seems to be contained to the Army Book so it seems like a "one and done" sorta game which is nice.We would probably want to do Guard or Marines vs Chaos.Is Epic 1997 the best choice for an OG Epic experience, or should we go with Epic Armageddon from 2003, Space Marine from 1989 etc.TIA for any help :)
>>97636727>don't suppose you know of an archive where I could grab the rest?Sorry no.>modern-esque RT clonesSorry I never looked into them.RT got messy as hell. 2nd was a true 2nd edition (a let's clean all this shit up rather than a straight up money grab). Not to say anything to discourage you to give it a go. Also pay attention to the book release dates as it gives you what revision in the rules were in effect and reflected from that point on.Like I said 2nd just came out when I started so nobody wanted to play the old edition with me. Though other than the chaos books I grabbed the rest from the discount/clearance/dead stock shelf at the stores. Heard plenty of fun stories from the time.>guy brings a Space Marine force>opponent brings his 60 goblin fantasy bowmen>lol what>you may have power armor but saving rolls can be failed, and your going to be making a lot of them>gobbos win
>>97637325Never played Armageddon, I own and played 89, and played some 97. My opinion I liked and enjoyed 89. When my local group tried 97 we proclaimed it as shit since they streamlined the units. Things like in 89 you had three different tank variants with different rules. Then in 97 the three different tank variants all had the same copy/paste rules. Wish I had a copy of 97 to give you good examples. If you get PDFs of the 89 and 97 rules look and compare Guard tanks and your'll see what I mean. The local group also got pissed they changed the base shape. Can't comment on Armageddon since I never played or seen it played.
>>97635620Just vibe that shit brethren. In all seriousness, the core book as a few examples of force organization. Imperial Army, Space Marines, Orks, and Eldar IIRC. These should give you a basic guideline on things. There are point values provided for every weapon covered in the book as well as for various stat levels.Once you get the hang of navigating the book it's fairly easy to gin up whatever you want. There are dedicated army lists in the supplement books but honestly, I don't recommend them as anything other than guides.
>>97631014By which >>97632124 means, it's completely different from RT. It's completely congruent with 2nd-through-5th_before_it_went_full_retard. So I guess if what you're looking for is the Flanderizing themepark that some Oldhammer fans have built on the carcass of a version of 40K that only existed for a handful of years, you'll hate it. If you like what 40K actually was prior to the Gathering Storm/Primarchshit/Primarislop era, it's breddy great. It *technically* takes place in said slop era, but the place it's set is a backwater on the arse end of nowhere and it features none of the actual detail of the era - the warpstorm that is cutting you off from the rest of the galaxy is supposed to be "the Great Rift" but in practical terms it's just a warpstorm and it has no bearing beyond justifying your isolation and why you have to re-explore the region from scratch. It's basically a bubble of circa-4th Edition 40K fluff.
>>97637325You can get a decent idea of whether you'll enjoy the original Space Marine/Titanicus system by watching people play the modern Legions Imperialis system and then thinking "would I like this if it was ~18% jankier and more annoying to play?". '97 is hyper-streamlined, basically the complete opposite experience. I think it has its place if you want to play genuinely retardedly large battles, since the streamlining is actually a positive in that situation. Otherwise avoid.Armageddon is basically the bowl of porridge that's Just Right. More granular than '97, but less frustrating to play than the OG system. It does a better job of realising the battles described in the 40K fluff than 40K does. Every faction is viable and well-defined, with thematic rules that make them feel different to play and give them unique tactics to employ, largely also without boxing you in and making you feel like you're just executing the same gimmick over and over again.In short; OG is for people who want lots of detail and don't mind the jank it brings with it, '97 is useful for really big games but otherwise eh, and Armageddon is the "best" game in the sense of actually doing what it sets out to do and representing what it intends to represent in its mechanics.
>>97638446What >>97632124 said is pretty much obvious. I mean, if that game was based on the original Rogue Trader, I guess we'd all be upon it even if everybody else said it is the worst game in the universe. I know, I would have had to try the game based on the 80's fluff.Though, I guess, in the Age Of Retards it is rather reasonable to state obvious things anyway, just to make it clear...Now, what you say sounds pretty great. I do not hope for the Oldhammer game, flanderized or not, but I do hope for the game without Gathering Storm. I started with Dawn Of War, and the newest game I played was Space Marine - and I think those are awesome, especially if you use your fantasy and some mods. So... thank you for the answer, because a game set in the 4th edition sounds rather enjoyable.
>>97638479Oh, ok. Thanks anon, I'll give Epic Armageddon a look. It shouldn't be too hard to find the rules.
>>97639082The one mark against it is it does, unfortunately, feature some stuff based on the post-retardation 5th-through-7th period, so for example when you run into Necrons they will be Nucrons, and DEldar use the modern aesthetic rather than the 3rd Edition Bondage Elves look. Otherwise as someone who also despises modern Warhammer it's as good as it's going to get I think.
>>97638296>Just vibe that shit brethren.Shall do homie.
>>97636413I would add that depending on what your goal is balance really doesn't matter. Scenarios and story as the driving force for having a game don't require it. If you want it to be competitive within that then you'd run the Scenario again but swap who controls which army.
>>97639082>>97639114It does help that it is a really good game. Actually one of the 40k games ever made I'd say. Partly because it uses its focus on being a Rogue Trader to explore vast chunks of the setting that have never really been touched outside of novels I guess. And general lack of Space Marines.It's also manages that rare thing where it is genuinely, appropriately funny. The inherent silliness of the setting is there and manages to be maintained alongside the grim stuff very well. And manages to be interesting in exploration, gives a little bit of the wonder of exploring a chunk of the galaxy and finding cool and weird shit.Does help to follow a character building guide though as that RPG system is a fucking nightmare for a learning curve, especially when you've got to do it for multiple characters. I appreciate what they were going for in the whole designing a system where teamwork is supposed to matter more than individual gear so you get really ludicrously strong by combo-ing all sorts of buffs and such to give people extra actions and more powerful actions, it's an interesting approach compared to the usual RPG design.
>>97639082Remember the advertising for Boltgun had a 90s bedroom and a bunch of 90s warhammer stuff because it was a Doom style "retro" shooter.And then all of the in game sprites were 2020s era miniature direct scans because you are allowed to have nostalgia for old shooters but not old warhammer.
>>97640434Didn't bother playing Boltgun because there were so many good boomershooters around I just couldn't give a fuck about being nostalgia baited by a mediocre one.
>>97640434>because you are allowed to have nostalgia for old shooters but not old warhammer.what part of THOU SHALT NOT MENTION MINIATURES UNLESS THEY'RE CURRENTLY SOLD BY YOUR LORD AND MASTER did you not understand?
>>97628626>On a Squat related point, they really did get their Dwarf aesthetic down early and of all the model ranges, Dwarfs are generally the most consistently good looking of even their oldest miniatures.I agree with you about this, there's something fundamentally caricatural about the GW dwarf design that just clicks, and their chunky shapes are very compatible with metal casting.
>>97640380It's a rare game in that it pretty much flawlessly executed the concept. The way it actually allows you to strut about like a Big Fucking Deal and there's no snarky eyerolling from NPCs about it(beyond that one guy in the prologue and the Inquisitor), even stuff as simple as implementing the idea from the tabletop RPG of not having a traditional currency system because you're far too important to dirty your hands with mere coinage you just have a generally known level of insane uberwealth and people fall over themselves to give you commensurate gifts to curry favour with you. And there's only one character build for me: maximising Momentum and any extra turn/action abilities and enjoying the show while Argenta righteously cackles her way through the whole opposing force singlehandedly :)
>>97639114>so for example when you run into Necrons they will be NucronsEh, I'm still not sure just how painful Nucrons are. Safe to say, I liked silent terminators multitudes more than whatever has been done with them.>>97640380>its focus on being a Rogue Trader to explore vast chunks of the setting that have never really been touchedDoes it do that though? That was my main gripe against the game being named Rogue darn Trader, but on the surface it looks like the most mundane stuff imaginable.I always thought Rogue Trader is someone who goes beyond, who meets aliens that were never even discovered before and whose retinue might as well be right away unimaginable heresy.And on the cover, we have a space elf and a space wolf. Come on! Could they at least use someone other than a fucking space wolf?If you ask me, Mentors were made for this role. It would be prime time to resurrect Mentors.Anyway, yeah, on the surface this Rogue Trader vidya looks like the most bland stuff possible that can be made with the game named Rogue Trader, but that's why I'm here asking for an opinion. Which, I gotta say, is surprisingly positive, so I guess there's no way but to accept th inevitable and try the darn game.>>97640434That was definitely a low blow. That was the reason I still haven't tried Boltgun.All in all, thanks to everyone who participated in this little discussion so far. It's been really interesting to hear /GROG/ thoughts about this one.
>>97628425Only guilders used bikes. Everyone always gets this wrong. Squats were divided into Brotherhoods and the Engineers Guild, the latter of which used bikes and trikes. Brotherhoods were just dwarf warriors but with lasguns instead of axes and shields.
>>97637325Epic Armageddon (4e) hands down (or actually, NetEpic Armageddon, the fan maintained living ruleset).It strikes the right balance between smooth to play and crunchy enough to represent with enough detail the setting; morale, fitting the scale, is impactful, but easy to manage. Listbuilding is fun, varied and community balanced over the years (not perfectly, though).Also very easy to try on Tabletop Sim or Vassal, and if you get physical models, translate to Epic 40k (the third edition, somewhat lacking in detail, but easy to resolve and good for *huge* battles).And these two are the only worhwile ones IMHO. 2e is fun to read but it's just small-scale 40k, the rules are absolutely not a good fit for the scale, LImp is a bloated copy of 2e, and 1e is just a less refined 2e.
>>97653247It os funny how the special and heavy weapons looked cartoony over the top.
Playing some more retro40k later this month, will be playing a 1200 point game of 3rd edition with my blood angels and I'm feeling pretty excited about that, need to get some more work on them done before the day but that shouldn't be too much trouble, all the glaze work on the armour is done for them, we're now just down to detail work and building my dreadnought.My list is as follows, it's just my initial 1500 point list cut down to fit. My opponent is bringing death guard(IA or 3.5, dunno), so it'll be interesting to see how this will go. Hopefully will have a nice battle report to share later.HQ:Commander Barachiel;Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Terminator Honours, frag grenades.123Elites:Squad Auriel; Terminator Squad.2 terminators with storm bolters and powerfists.2 terminators with heavy flamers and powerfists.Terminator sergeant Auriel with power sword and storm bolter.230Troops:Squad Symeon; Tactical Squad.7 marines with bolters, frag and krak grenades.1 marine with plasma gun, frag and krak grenades.1 marine with heavy bolter, frag and krak grenades.Veteran sergeant Symeon with storm bolter, chainsword, frag and krak grenades.211Squad Peliel; Tactical Squad.7 marines with bolters, frag and krak grenades.1 marine with melta gun, frag and krak grenades.1 marine with heavy bolter, frag and krak grenades.Veteran sergeant Peliel with storm bolter, chainsword, frag and krak grenades.215Squad Palemon; Blood Angels Scout Squad.4 scouts with bolt pistols and CCW, frag and krak grenades.Veteran sergeant Palemon with bolt pistol, CCW, frag and krak grenades, teleport homer.103Fast Attack:Squad Adeon; Assault Squad.4 marines with bolt pistols, CCW, frag and krak grenades.1 marine with plasma pistol, CCW, frag and krak grenades.Veteran sergeant Adeon with bolt pistol, CCW, frag and krak grenades.182Heavy Support:Ancient Barthilas; Dreadnought.Twin Linked Lascannon, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers.135
Any of you guys tried Rogue Hammer or Squad Hammer?
>>97663617Wasn't really a fan of the squad hammer system. Wasn't what I was looking for.
>>97669370Yeah I've kinda found that for myself. Ah well.
3rd ed Dark Eldar are kino kingshit but by fuck these metal Hellions will break me...
>>97671296Godspeed anon, my brother gave up on his metal Hellions as a lost venture.
>>97671646I can't fucking blame him.
>>97677854Sweet looking table, a game of yours or something found in the wild?
>>97679101Found photography
Why doesn't GW just re-release all the old minis in resin?
>>97683051Nothing. They simply choose to only ever re-release them on a FOMO basis at exorbitant prices
>>97683236You can find all of these made of actual metal on ebay loose for lessHoly shit
>>97683051Scanners are doing it for them
>>97691036Alberthobbying, paints some lively stuff
>>97691036>nightmare googles on >everything is exactly the same
>>97684841Yeah if you can deal with all the Super Sekrit Klubhouse bullshit these arsewipes subject you to.
>>97635620Two very experienced anons already answered you but I will chime in having played the first 3 editions extensively. Just skip straight to 2nd edition. It is much easier to find resources for 2e online and the rules are a mile better. Rogue Trader is a great read and has amazing ideas that you can use even in other games, but as a raw, rules as written wargame. Frankly its a fucking trainwreck by modern standards. It was amazing at the time but it was clearly a beta. 2e is much more cleaned up and you will get the same Rogue Trader "feel" without the slog of hunting down statlines crammed into blocks of lore, and the general lack of playtesting gone. The part of 2e that doesnt work as well however is relying on very specific materials like psychic power cards that arent super easy to get a hold of, while Rogue Trader is designed to be played with absolutely nothing more than dice, tape measure, the core book, and whatever shit you can cobble together. Overall, dont let the complexity intimidate you, even just sit down and walk through a combat of two squads shooting at each other and just attack it phase by phase, and scale things up as you get comfortable. Homebrew up a fun story and enjoy.I really wish GW would keep Rogue Trader in print. Im aware they do but you need to be physically present at their headquarters to buy it and second hand copies go for big money, and none of the expansions sans Realms of Chaos were printed.
>>97640434>you are allowed to have nostalgia for old shooters but not old warhammer.Boltgun doesn't play like old shooters either, it's full of 2016 Doom slop.
>start playing some 2nd edition with a friend>kind of suck with chaos marines (make poor choices)>ask internet for ideas>>put terminator armour and the mark of khorne on your chaos lord for a sweet 2+ save with 2D6>>give a champion terminator armour and a blastmaster>>your heroes are all pretty slow, but the solution is how crazy what kind of broken wargear combos you could get in 2nd edition, just put jump packs on them!>>buy 3 veterans for <100pts so your opponent doesn't get VPs for killing some of them!... I don't think anyone read their Chaos Codex back in the day, maybe that's why everyone thought Khorne was broken in this editionI also originally saw the VP/pts table and thought the same for making fleabitten squads but then realised it meant a strong 200pt squad defeated is worth as much as 2 100pt squads who have no fun toys to play with, and I don't care about score anyway, for some reason unlike modern Games Workshop I'm just happy to be here because how a battle unfolds is too much fun
>>97631014>Well, the question is: how is it from the Oldhammer's fan perspective?Middle-to-latehammer Dungeons & Dragons, made by Slavs, for a middle class American market that only cares about playersexual romancesIt avoids some modern /v/ideogame issues that even Darktide didn't, by not making absolutely everyone ugly, ethnic and flat chested, instead meeting halfway, which is called conservative in this day and ageIt was a walking advert for more modern models such as Arbites, Navis Breachers and Navigators but not excruciatingly soHeavy handed laterhammer grimderp, firmly on the side of "Every evil is justified to preserve humanity", which isn't a question oldhammer asks>Rites of WarNo clueHave funCaveat emptor>>97683051Because they haven't been updated for the Modern Audience™
>>97692474>how crazy what kind of broken wargear combos you could get in 2nd editionIn my area if you saw a apothecary you killed that fucker as soon as you could. Characters could get wargear and apothecarys were the cheapest characters, so apothecary+jump pack+vortex grenade = allah akbar.
>>97694044Lying fake grog. An apothecary could only take 1 wargear card. In your case that could be the vortex grenade OR the jump pack, but not both.
>>97694929I guess an Apothecary on a bike with a vortex nade would still be annoying but not as flexible.The cheaper 33pt Techmarine can have 3 wargear cards though.
>>97694929>>97695403Given how everyone broke the rules, and still do, I can't see why suicide apothecaries would be unheard of, I think even the orks had throwaway characters too>on a bikeGetting expensive now
Someone started making a Battlescribe/NewRecruit data module for 40k 4th editionhttps://github.com/Kothra/Warhammer-40-000-4th-Edition-for-NewRecruitPlease encourage him
>>97628425nice models
Does anyone here have the original 1st founding legion/chapter numbers from rogue trader? I remember seeing a table a while ago from before the first founding chapters all had their current numbers and it had a few differences but I can't find a table like it anywhere. I remember for certain though that the Night Lords weren't the VIII Legion but had a different number.
>>97708674It's missing a few legions, like the Emperor's Children and Word Bearers. The Iron Hands were completely absent though.
>>97697958A Jump Pack is 10pts while the Bike is 20pts.>>97708674Not totally sure but I believe the back of the Space Marine game box was the first time Chapters were given numerals, see pic.Ultramarines and Emperors Children later had their numbers swapped, as did Salamanders and Night Lords.I've never actually looked to see if the other Chapters, later Legions, were numbered or if those were only added when second edition hit and the full 20 Legion list was created. Wouldn't be surprised if they changed it because this early numbering creates a situation where early chapters stayed loyal while later chapters joined Horus rather than it being more mixed.
>>97692169genuinely how do you get into this? I've been looking for scans of old fire dragons and similar from 2000 and people only ever have new ones or rogue trader ones. idk who or what to look for
Hey anons, can one of you please explain to me the Points Value Modifiers explained here?Sorry, I'm not super bright and I'm struggling to understand.
>>97709770Thank you
>>97713479If the total point value of the mode, before weapons, gear, etc. is greater than 10, multiply it by the value in the >multiply by column that lines up with the point value range in the >Score as formula There are specific additional modifiers for flying/burrowing creatures, which adds 5/10% whichever is higher, to the base value before multiplying.Armour saves via inherent armour are worth 0.5 of a point per 1 on a D6 it is a save of. ie %+ armour save costs 1 point. Horses cost 5 minimum.
>>97636131> Daemon Weapon 900pts
>>97716121A daemon weapon has a bound daemon in it, which is very likely to be a a greater daemon or daemon prince. They have a giant pile of special rules, and also just insta-kill pretty much anything, and confers a bunch of the daemon's abilities on the wielder. And if desperate, they can pop the daemon out of the blade for a bit, with uncertain results after a turn. But hey, dumping a greater daemon level threat on the table for a turn, might not the worst of ideas even if it backfires after that. Chaos for Chaos's sake.Still at least in RT you've got at half a chance of dumping a multimelta in the guy carrying it's face before they get somewhere with it. Or vortex grenade them. Or stasis grenade them. And so on.
I assume that Rogue Trader is a bit wonky due to being a product of it's time.Is there a fan balance edition of it to have a better experience with it?I fear that waacfaggery from modern Warhammer has poisoned even casual games.
>>97722583RT is completely impossible to balance through mechanics alone by its very nature and concept so if someone wants to WAAC with it, the best option is to just not play them.It needs player cooperation and potentially third party moderation (a GM) working towards the goal.
>>97722583>>97723810>the best option is to just not play themSincerely, this. I actively don't play with WAACfags and my gaming experience has been sterling for well over a decade. Simply cut them out of your options and leave them on their own. They'll either learn to not be a WAACfag because nobody will play with them or they'll die alone, either way your gaming improves for its lack of them.
>>97726112This. Balance is but a dampener, the true issue is the WAAC, competitive minded players that simply cannot fathom the idea of playing a scenario for its own enjoyment. Once you begin actively segregating WAACfags away from your games, you'll find the lack of perceived balance and open ended nature of 3e fantasy/RT inconsequential, and your gaming time will become quite lovely.
>>97714641Thank you anon, one more question if you please. Does this greater than 10 rule apply to things like minor heroes and champions, or just "creatures"??
How does Chaos Cult in 2nd edition summon Daemons if none of their models can bear Marks of Chaos? Taking chaos space marines as an ally?
>>97730458Everything with a profile is a "creature" for that purpose. ------I ran a human minor hero through it just to make sure I wasn't wrong so might as well copy that into here.p60 Human Minor Hero - 36 points.p138 Human Minor Hero profile - 4 5 5 4 4 2 5 2 8 8 8 85 + 0 + 1 + 0.5 + 1 + 1 + 4 + 0.5 + 4 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25 = 18multiply by 2 for being over 10 between 16 - 20 = 36pts
>>97733282Taking a Cult Icon Bearer with the Warp Banner from the Chaos Icons on page 70 is the only way without taking Chaos Space Marine allies. I don't have WD204 on hand to check this but I found a collection of Q&A stuff noting that WD issue with this question and the answer was the Icon, Allies and just have fun and make a scenario with custom rules for why the daemons spawn for some reason.
>>97733412Thank you for your help anon, you've been super helpful.
>>97733528Oh wow, I didn't realize that the warp banner works as all marks of chaos, thank you very much!
>>97742843KINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>97742843Good stuff
>>97736690What's the tall wight/lich model from? Looks really neat.
>>97743381ZN games netherworld liche
>>97742843Any protips how to make those ork huts?
I came across a very interesting website today that hosted a bunch of pictures of the Armorcast models that were released between 1995 and 1998. I had no idea these existed and some of them are really cool!For your viewing pleasure:https://web.archive.org/web/20030220044740fw_/http://www.armorcast.com/warhammer40k/
>>97745142This archive link appears to have stopped working the second I posted about it. So, uh... here's a link to the citadel miniature collecting wiki's page about these models: http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Resin_Vehicles_%26_Titans#Armorcast
>>97744636
>>97744636https://youtu.be/jQgIfbsEr7A?si=lrswhrp80qko1kKChttps://youtu.be/_83o02_bBzE?si=OpMzyL4sydIx23XvHere's some good videos about it tooHighly recommend
>>97628410What's a good program for writing custom Codices?
>>97750547I've been using a cracked version of word for my homebrews.
>>97744474Nice thanks anon.
>>97750839>searches company >dude's been dead for 2+ decades bummer
>>97750547LaTeX is the ultimate tool if you're into turbo nerdism/autism. They also have templates to make it easier. For instance, there are templates for having the same retro-layout in D&D. Some turbo nerd should do something similar for 40k as well. It's free (as in freedom and as in free beer)I use Word (and to some extent Powerpoint) to layout my stuff, it works fine. But that type of (codex type) layout is usually done in a special software such as MS Publisher or Affinity Publisher.LaTeX is the most powerful option, Affinity Publisher is quite popular. PowerPoint is the easiest.For reference, here's my retro 40k-inspired thing I made using just MS Word:https://hexhunt.itch.io/psychonics
>>97750666>>97750547And if you want to use word but dont want to pay, just get LibreOffice. It's "libre".
And I'll just leave this here.
>>97754147And?it's a bunch of empty folders, upload the material first you nigger
>>97754147Why would it include 2nd ed 40k but not 4th ed fantasyRetarded
>>97755226There's been a concerted effort recently by an extremely sad wee poofter to push a hyper-purist interpretation of what the thread is about. Look at the title which has been tweaked from "GW Retro and Oldhammer General" to "GW Retro/Oldhammer General", an attempt to imply the two terms are just different ways of expressing the same narrow thing rather than a deliberate distinction between Oldhammer and the more expansive Retro Warhammer.
I often see 4e Rulebook+3e Codexes being recommended over playing "pure" 3e or 4e. What is the benefit of doing so? Were 4e rules a clear upgrade to 3e? Were 4e codexes THIS shit for real?
>>97755896>Look at the title which has been tweaked from "GW Retro and Oldhammer General" to "GW Retro/Oldhammer General",What? I've always titled it "GW Retro/Oldhammer General".
>>97756875The only real thing is that some of the later 4e codexes were bad (in particular CSM). I was the one who made the image crossing out everything after and including Eldar just based on how the codexes are designed on a general level, but the only significant changes from 3rd in the case of Eldar are the addition of the Autarch and that Warlocks can't take runes (and the removal of some named characters that never had models).
I quite like 4th edition 40k. Dark Eldar and Tau were rather fun then :)
>>97758523I've always wanted to play against Tau, they look like an interesting conundrum to be solved as an opponent.
>>97758542The sheer amount of options the Tau have in 4th is honestly amazing and makes them super fun to play with, I just hope they're also fun to fight lol my mate has never complained so that's something.
>>97758675Yeah that's why I think they look fun to go up against, I like to fight games that are uphill struggles and seeing all the toys that the Tau have at their disposal makes them look challenging.
Anyone happen to have Fabelzel chaos dwarf/hobgoblin STL files?I'd only need the hobgoblin archers, but anything's fine.All I'm finding is a bunch of reworks and that the drive was taken down.
Planned Flesh Tearers captain. I am thinking the meltagun torso is best.
>>97759823You can strip the metal parts easy by just dropping them into acetone and letting them sit for like an hour
Anyone fancy dropping a few thousands on this?
>>97759911Or even better, in nitro solvent for a minute.
>>97692474Around here it was the goddamned maxed out Sorcerer of Tzeentch on a disk with inferno bolts and maybe a power field. A 2++ save cannot be adequately balanced by a melee nerf when mobility options are available and charges are relatively difficult to pull off, and attacks that bypass armor and invulns (even at S4) that instakill can only be balanced by pricing it to the point that it can never make back its points...which it actually kind of was without the disk, or if your dice rolling was shit. It just never seemed to go that way when I was on the receiving end.>>97722583It's not a bit wonky, it's very wonky. It doesn't work without cooperative players and/or a very firm GM that's willing to put in the hours rebalancing points costs. It can be done (I've seen it) and had you asked me 34 years ago I would have had our GM's handout to show you how he did it, but that's long lost to the sands of time. >yes, that glorious motherfucker went through every single unit and piece of wargear in the game and recalculated the points cost for most of them, and then he printed out copies for everyone during the dot matrix printer era>everyone was convinced that they'd gotten fucked, but everyone continued to play>which meant that he probably got it just about right
>>977568754th Edition's core rules are basically 3rd Edition - 2nd Edition. They tidy up, consolidate, clarify, and just generally moderately improve upon 3rd, and work pretty much seamlessly with 3rd codexes. The reason people don't advocate using straight-up 4th is that the *codex* design philosophy in that period doesn't neatly align with the editions - you have a period starting in mid-3rd and ending in mid-4th that contains all the best-regarded codexes of the period like CSM and Guard 3.5, the Inquisition books, 4th SM, 4th BT etc which all have that similar vibe in their design: separate armoury to choose equipment from, lots of detailed rules for subfactions in some cases, in others whole systems for creating custom subfactions, etc etc. Then in the middle of 4th post-Tau the design philosophy changes again; no more armouries everything is consolidated into the units(with a lot of "pointless" flavour options culled), no more subfaction stuff, everything blandified. It's a sweet spot.
>>97759043I think I do, but I'm away from the computer at the moment. I'll try to remember to get them to you.
>>97759043Sadly not anymore, I regret deleting files after I got mine done since they were removed from drive shortly after. Such a nice sculpts, they were pleasure to paint.
>>97754147>Oldhammer Fantasy>1st to 3rd Editions>Fiction>Gotrek & FelixNigga, those were Black Library titles. Trollslayer was published a few months before 6E launched, they really aren't representative of Warhammer 1-3E fluff or styleYou could've at least picked the Boxtree novels or something, which includes the anthology that Gotrek & Felix first appeared in
>>97770224>>97771102for some reason no one has them or are not willing to share because hurr the creator removed themwell, thanks for checking anyway, nice gob lads
BOYL news.Might have already had the last BOYL at Stoke Hall :(Think the very first BOYL was when Foundry was still in a normal building, been out at East Stoke ever since, wonder what the future holds.
>>97776898Hey, sorry I forgot to reply. I definitely have those files on my computer, at least a few of them including the archers. I'll upload them somewhere when I get home from work.
>>97782503I thought you are the anon posting the gobs above lolCool, I'd be grateful
>>97782503Heh, I see you painted yours orange too, looks nice. Do you play TOW with them or something else?
>>97786225Nah I use them for AD&D. I just love the sculpts. Hobgoblins in the classic D&D sources are described as orange to red in color.
>>97776898>>97759043https://litter.catbox.moe/jzoouqv9w2nm5qlw.ziphttps://litter.catbox.moe/dw4l2murkyha18lx.ziphttps://litter.catbox.moe/a6puaihxhlh7gc85.7zhttps://litter.catbox.moe/q7ikg6et0phf5bvt.7zHere's everything I have except for wolf riders. For whatever reason litterbox didn't like that file.Thanks for being patient.
>>97790379NTA, but I'd appreciate the wolf riders if you manage to upload them.
>>97790449I'll see what I can do,.
Does having two pistols do anything in 2nd ed except give 1 more attack? Can you shoot both of them at the same time?
>>97790537Good sites to try for temporary file sharing are pixeldrain and dropmefiles.
>>97790569You cannot fire both at the same time but it does give you extra attack in melee. Only Cypher can fire both his pistols at the same time AFAIK.
>>97790379Thanks! I hope these are not full of dolphins...
>>97771652>Boxtree novelsDo you have a link for them? I'd appreciate this.
Was there an adeptus mechanicus army colour scheme depicted with green eyes?
