Now that the dust has settled, did Horus Heresy ruin 40k?The emperor's fall and the battle of terra were mysterious and ominous before but horus turned it into soap opera bullshit
>>97640751No. You know that.41k did way more damage than 30k.
>>97640751not even 1% as bad as primarishitification and the addition of grey knights / custodes as factions. (If they exist at all, they would not be armies, but 1-3 allied individuals just like Eversor/Vindicare/Callidus)
>>97640751Sort of but not really. The main issue is having the whole galaxy revolve around a handful of people. HH encourages this because of the primarchs. But it's almost inevitable anyway because the temptation is to have important characters carry over and keep being significant rather than invent new ones.
It's just preekslop like Dune and the Star Wars prequels. The lore was already dogshit before the HH, they were introducing shit like ephrael stern but I guess it gets a pass because that was all before the culture war was a thing.
>>97640751>you get to go back in time and have GW write a 100+ book series about another period or setting in warhammerWhich do you choose?
>>97641409100 books about the traitor legions fighting each other in the warp for no reason
>>97640928the galaxy revolving around emperor+18 primarchs is logical and cool. Then they made it much more turbofaggy by making the galaxy revolve around gayass "perpetual" humans that just walk around for years and years being boring and doing gay shit just for some really stupid plot to happen.If you delete john grammaticus, ollanius pius, loken and sammus from the 60 book series, you'd remove 10+ books worth of entirely garbage plot with no loss.
>>97640830Vast majority of bad things about 41k (more heroic overtones, primarchs returning, big focus on a grand overarching narrative etc.) were directly caused by how positively people with shit taste reacted to those in 30k.
>>97641409Modern day slice of life of the emperor hanging out in soho or whatever
>>97641409War in Heaven, DaoT, Long Night then Unification Wars.
>>97641409>Which do you choose?Vandire and the Age of Apostacy. HH's problem was that it degraded the setting by taking one of the most foundational stories that informed the rest of the setting but was lost to vague mythology and secret history, and expanding on every single little meaningless detail in excrutiating length. It's like a horror movie; the monster is important, but you have to shoot around it, keep it in the dark, use it sparingly, because once the audience sees the monster costume in full light they can see it's just some black dude in a bunch of rubber. The mystique is killed and the suspension of disbelief is lost. Age of Apostacy is recent enough that you aren't losing too much mystique by showing it, and big enough that it can sustain a similar degree of literature as the HH books.
>>97640751>Now that the dust has settledWhy do you fucks keep using this phrase? What does this have to do with the topic? You could've left it out and nothing in your post would change.
>>9764677530k existed because of how positively people who liked 40k reacted to those things. /tg/ was created by and for people who loved primarchs, wanted marines who used modern tactics, and wanted to see the plot advance.
>>97648080good taste
>>97649189>/tg/ was created by and for drooling retards who have absolutely shit taste and are getting exactly what they deserve.I mean, yeah, you're probably right.
>>97640751All the shit people complained about in the HH series was already in the lore we knew about the Heresy. IE The Emperor's plan being retarded, the loyalist Primarchs being retarded, the traitor Primarchs being retarded, and so on. If anything, the real reason the HH novels suck is because they took 65 books to retell the same legend we already knew, adding 100 times the detail but without actually innovating on the legend meaningfully.
Yes>Led to the secondary invasion of 40k>Dumbed down 40k to "humans vs chaos with aliens on the side" making it as retarded and boring as warhammer fantasy>Forced primarchs to return and completely destroy the entire vibe of 40kThat's just surface level, you can write a novel about all the minor retcons and retarded lore shit created by horus heresy.
>>97652387What's worse is spergs reciting booklore and dabbing on /yourguys/ because of retarded writers writing /yourguys/ to be totally retarded, despite you liking same collecting them BEFORE THE BOOK WAS WRITTEN.This happened to me with my Dark Angels AND my Chaos marines. Like, I don't care dude, I still think they're cool despite what some faggot wrote about them. Shut up and roll the dice.
>>97640751The Emperor worked so much better as a character when he was a malformed DAOT mutant using the warp to cloud his true appearance. Think about it:>The Emperor exterminates all religious beliefs, differing ideologies, replacing them with a cult of personality centering on him. He wants all the adoration in the world to make up for something and dissenters get in the way.>He treats the Primarchs terribly because he has no frame of reference save for being a test subject in a lab, and the daddyo5tier technobarbarians. He views them as tools because he himself is a tool. >Everything is a tool to him. Thunder Warriors, Astartes, the masses of soldiers thrown at neutral planets... All of them are tools, not people.>The Emperor hates mutants due to himself being a mutant, always desiring the perfect human form that he was denied. The only caveat would be Xenos, and even then... Notice how 99% of all planets encountered in the novels are purely human? Then when they encounter a Xenos planet, it's a 'neat' moment for the Spess Mehreens which suggests that they're uncommon. Even the Orks are given references despite infesting space at the time. In short, the Emperor works better as a Bartoli baby even more fucked up than his sons.
>>97640751One of the worst things is that they read no differently than other BL slop. It's the same bolter porn with more mandrama, and the Imperium is just as much of a shithole as the 40k one. There was no Golden Age of the Imperium for Horus to ruin because it was already grimderp to begin with.
>>97652387there are a good number of interesting books in there but most are trash. That's the problem.
>>97657322>The Emperor worked so much better as a character when he was a malformed DAOT mutant using the warp to cloud his true appearanceSo never? I don't even disagree that it's a better explanation, but his origin has been fixed since 1990.
>>97641409The Horus Heresy... but do it better.>Gather 20+ writers>Plus a 3 man (including myself) oversight team>Have a big meeting in which the basic events of the Heresy are plotted out>ie; order the Primarchs were found in and the basic events of said finding, what event happened when and the very basics of events like the Drop Site Massacre or Girlyman's Imperium Secundus>Writers claim/argue over who gets to write which Primarch and their Legion>Each writer is assigned a single Primarch/Legion>Extra writers are assigned to other, non-Primarch/non-Marine characters such as Malcador>Writers are all given the following rules/instructions>Primarch writers must write a minimum of 3 books about their Primarch>Non-Primarch/Marine writers must write at least 1 book>Said books must focus primarily on that Primarch/Character. Other Primarch/Legion/Characters may of course appear, but your books must be primarily about your Primarch/Characters and their story/version of the Heresy>Writers may talk to each other about last nights football game, about 40k rules, about the latest world news, or whatever else they want... EXCEPT the book/stories they're writing. If they have any questions about the basics that we all talked about in the main meetings, then they have to talk to the oversight team. Anyone found in breach of this rule will be removed from the writing team and replaced>The only ones who they can talk to about what they're writing and who may discuss the individual stories with each other is the oversight teamThe end result, 18+ wildly different interpretations and/or versions of the Heresy and no definitive version of what happened, leaving the truth of what actually happened still kind of a mystery.
>>97646802You joke, but apparently the Emperor spent most of the 1980s taking a break from his big plans and just traveling around and doing cocaine. Unless they retconned him being around since before the AD era again and he's really just a genetically engineered superhuman from the Dark Age of Technology.
>>97641409Something centered around the Rise of the Imperial Cult and the changes which happened during the Age of Rebirth and the Forging. So the late M31/early M32 Imperium and heading into early M34 at the latest. It'd reveal lots about the Heresy and the early Imperium without taking away too much of the mystique since the Heresy would still be an event centuries in the past and there'd be no Primarchs around, but unfortunately it would also be something that would never happen as it wouldn't be bolterporn focused.
>>97641700>>97648080these
>>9764075140k was ruined by Space Crusade.
>>97640751Established lore that sucks is much better than vague nebulous lore that can be twisted into any cancerous garbage at whim.
>>97640751It seems a constant that 4chan always seethes whenever DEEP MYSTERIOUS vagueposting lore gets revealed.>>97673297The FROMsoft fans HATED him because he told them the truth.
>>9764677530k was a historical setting full of grogs leaving 40k.muh heroism started in 5th with wardian codexes but the real rot started in lat 4th with the Gay Throbbing codexes. See chaos's list of grudges.40k's tone shifted way before that,We had heroics with gaunt's ghosts and other such novels and the books aren't bringing secondaries in.>>97652404when secondaries come in they come in from fucking flufftube bullshit where dah funny orks scream and shit their pants and think hard till real.The primarchs return was a marketing stunt for more center piece models, it was an obvious fucking choice because they are advancing the story. being able to read about how fullgrim became gay didn't cause this and if you didn't have 30k this shit would still have happened.
>>97652404>Stupid bait image.>Has 5e on the "le ebin side"Here's my (you) retard, take it and buy yourself a less shit opinion.
>>97649172it's a meme you dip
>>97640830>>97640870They're both sides of the same coin. The marvel bullshit of HH is what encouraged primaris hero garbage in the first place
>>97674020here's a (You) to bring your balance up
>>97641409Unification Wars and the glory days of the Great CrusadeMy favorite part of HH novels were the random Xenos / humanity offshoot cultures
>>97652404This bait image is dumb but it's even dumber when you consider how much 1st to 4th edition copied from comic books.
