>>97649597
>TQ
My traps are puzzles with various ways to circumvent them, they don't exist specifically as a source of attrition / loss of time but they can be because of in-play circumstances. They exist because they make sense to be there and their game purpose is to create tension.

>>97649597
>Do you enjoy traps in dungeons as a form of attrition and forcing the party to play carefully, or are they just wastes of time?
As a player, I fucking love it, specially when there's something non-standard that we have to get clever to get around. Those trap-puzzle combos.

>>97649597
I like my world having verisimilitude and the trap must be sensible.
>this enclave of evil clerics just all agreed not to step on this particular part of their common room and no one made a mistake for years
not sensible
trapping an entrance or corridor that is largely unused though, sure.
My players made heavy use of traps themselves in early game - bought bear traps, did hide checks to set them up all around their camp, brought them into dungeons and tried to lure enemies into them, trapped the unexplored entrances with them.
It was kind of OP, but I think its a good way to make rangers/rogues with high Hide skill more useful to the party.

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>>97649597
>Do you enjoy traps in dungeons as a form of attrition and forcing the party to play carefully, or are they just wastes of time?
A trap well used should be a very dangerous threat that hits a vulnerable party at the worst time (for them). If you just more or less haphazardly scatter a handful of arrow traps and pitfall traps here and there in a dungeon, that will, at beast, just waste their resources and their time (i.e. spell durations); valuable, but probably not compared to how expensive and time-intensive the traps were. If the trap is a portcullis that drops in the middle of the party in a hallway, while two hordes of skeletons come out from behind silent image walls on either side of them, so they are split up and surrounded and have nowhere to retreat; that's a good trap. Put another way; its best to combine traps with encounters, or traps with traps, or traps with environmental hazards.

>>97650678
Religious orders would be the best at something like that unironically. For me, its big set piece in a place like a castle I find stupid. Classic traps in a dungeon are fine, strange traps in a monastery are fine. A castle on the other hand should be more about small enclosed courtyards, porticulluses, & kill rooms manned by guards.

Whats the most functional way to have a magic wizard staff that also serves as a wizards tower?

>>97651599
It'd probably be easier to do something in the vein of Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion/Genesis than have the staff itself literally be the tower.

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What are some really good magic items for a Sun domain cleric to have besides:
>maxed out Wisdom amulet
>nightstick
>armor/shield/ring of protection/whatever standard issue stuff
Any ideas? Can be anything 50,000 gp or less.

>>97653671
>>maxed out Wisdom amulet
Make that a reliquary holy symbol too.

>>97653745
I have retributive healing on my periapt of wisdom already, will that work?

>>97653671
Not magic, but a sanctified shield.

>>97653790
I think it depends on how much your DM let's players extrapolate the crafting rules, but by raw, I don't think so.
You'd have to get a reliquary holy symbol, then enhance it all over again with wisdom and whatever else.
I think, I'm not 100% on the nuances of the crafting rules.

>>97653848
I use a special holy symbol that gives me +2 on my turning checks, I forget what it's called but I don't think I could transfer that to my shield.

>>97653858
True Holy (or Unholy) Symbol, I think.
No idea from which book.

>>97653671
Oh yeah, a charisma item would result in more turning attempts if that's something you are after.

>>97653872
>True Holy (or Unholy) Symbol, I think.
Yeah I think that was it.
I might go for a charisma cloak since I usually use Superior Resistance and rarely get dispelled, so a cloak of resistance isn't much use most of the time.

>>97651687
Nah. I want to have the wizard "pack up" his tower into a staff & walk off with it & set it up wherever he needs. Hes also doing it to avoid taxes on "permanent structures"

>>97651687
>>97654150
SO basically
Daern's Instant Fortress: This metal cube is small, but when activated by speaking a command word it grows to form a tower 20 feet square and 30 feet high, with arrow slits on all sides and a crenellated battlement atop it. The metal walls extend 10 feet into the ground, rooting it to the spot and preventing it from being tipped over. The fortress has a small door that opens only at the command of the owner of the fortress—even knock spells can’t open the door.

The adamantine walls of instant fortress have 100 hit points and hardness 20. The fortress cannot be repaired except by a wish or a miracle, which restores 50 points of damage taken.

The fortress springs up in just 1 round, with the door facing the device’s owner. The door opens and closes instantly at his command. People and creatures nearby (except the owner) must be careful not to be caught by the fortress’s sudden growth. Anyone so caught takes 10d10 points of damage (Reflex DC 19 half ).

The fortress is deactivated by speaking a command word (different from the one used to activate it). It cannot be deactivated unless it is empty.

Strong conjuration; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage’s magnificent mansion; Price 55,000 gp.

But a staff?

>>97654537
Yes, but a little wider & a lot taller & able to be furnished.

Daern's Instant Fortress is sort of the best "tent" but its not really good at being a house.

>>97654578
Yeah I remember finding someone who made somre really cool versions of the leomund's line nerfing tiny hut, improving Secure Shelter with Tiny hut's insulation magic, and then giving bitter and better ones including one with a loft over a stables setup.

I think it was for a game where extraplanar hiding places were banned.

>>97654693
Off the cuff I just assumed that'd be The Alexandrian but all I'm seeing from them on the topic is https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/46479/roleplaying-games/resting-in-the-dungeon-part-2-rope-tricks-tiny-huts

would 4 feet of mud block Detect Evil?

>>97657326
trying to decide if mud and dirt are the same thing
>3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

>>97657376
I'd say it's close enough

>>97657376

Mud is dirt suspended in water. Like a soup. So yeah it works

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1/2
my current in-game situation:

>players decide to find a tower in an old trench filled battlefield
>1ft of mud most everywhere, foggy conditions, visibiliy 1d10 x 10ft
>they walk into a double headed basilisk who petrifies 4/5 party members during the surprise round
>5th one retreats and kills the basilisk with a spiritual weapon from beyond gaze range
>(I cheat and say there is enough blood in this basilisk that de-petrify 4 victims)
>players find the tower, have to descend into a trench to reach the door
>pick wrong side of the trench
>get ambushed by 3 ooze mephits and 14 toxic mudmen
>mephits land 2 acid arrows and a stinking cloud on the entire party
>14 mudmen rise out of mud and start making engulf attacks
>most of the party is nauseated and blind from the mud, trying to get out of the trench
>2 more stinking clouds cover trench exit
>ooze mephits keep breathing acid on them
>nauseated pcs can't make the attack action needed to break the mud off them
>have to use their weapon handles to crack their own faces open
>half the party already holding breath once they finally get free of the mud
>12 rounds of combat before they can actually start fighting back
>1/4th average party health once ooze mephits are finally dead
>they spend half of their lesser vigor wand to heal up
>proceed 15ft past the last ambush
>centipede swarm, 28 hp
>last fireball they have does 27 damage
>DC 15 survival check to light a torch in wet foggy condition
> -4 penalty for being distracted by centipedes chewing on you
>party separates so swarm can't chew them all
>have to throw torch, tinderbox tools to each other
>drop a few into wet mud
>spend 6 rounds doing the untrained DC 15 survival check before one of them finally gets it
>inflict one point of damage on swarm with torch
>1/3 average party hp at the end

>>97658155
70ft down the same trench

>The bubbling mud is simply the result ... The mud is deeper — 4 feet — and is considered a deep bog for movement purposes. It requires 4 squares of movement to move into a square. Medium or larger creatures have cover, and smaller creatures obtain improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonuson Reflex saves).

>Creature: Lying in at the bottom of this morass is what is left of one of Orcus’s subcommanders that died during an assault on this tower. He now exists as a mohrg and waits hungrily for any unwary traveler to pass by. He suffers the same movement penalties in the mud but ignores cover provided by the mud to other creatures because of his unnatural existence and affinity for his resting place. He remains crouched to receive improved cover against his foes while he attempts to paralyze them and let them drown in the soup.

however
>60ft of trench along fort wall
>mud 4ft deep
>beneath a fort's overhanging 2nd floor filled with murderholes looking down into the trench
>fort inhabitants unknown
>2 battles and one fireball went off recently
players are being a bit paranoid now. said 'fuck this, we are goign back, climbing out of this trench and going around the fort'
also one of them previously said he is spamming detect evil anywhere he moves

and that's where we are taking a break.

I am trying to decide what to do with the mohrg. They've been poking around with a spear to determine depth of the mud in that section. I am assuming he would have felt the disturbance of the mud being shifted around.
My options are:
>a) mohrg waits for prey to come to him - how long if so
and/or
>b)mohrg decides to rise to the surface to see what the disturbance was
he's got +23 listen and would understand what they said if he heard them, however what would the listen check be to hear conversation that's 40ft away while you are the bottom of 4 feet mud-pool?

>>97658167
>+5 Through a door
>+15 Through a stone wall
Where does 1ft of mud fall into this?
I am thinking if mohrg hears them, he knows they are about to enter fort on other side, waits to hear sound of them fighting ghouls inside and ambushes them from behind
if he doesn't hear them, 1d10 rounds and sneaking out of his hiding pool to look for prey
I don't want to just skip the encounter

>>97658199
I'd say that's enough of a scuffle that a mohrg that's specifically looming there to try and drag people in would be aware that they've been poking around and actively paying attention. People talking is DC 0 if they're not trying to sneak but even if they're whispering that's DC 10 (DC 20 to understand it). 40 feet away is +4. Even if the bog is is a +15 to the DC like solid stone, that's still DC 39 which if he's taking 20 while lurking in the muck, he's going to hit at 20+23.

So he's aware there's been a scuffle and there's people down in the trench, and it's really a question of whether he's cool eating the corpses of what's already been killed or if he specifically wants to try and pound their shit in while they're trying to leave. Another option is to split the difference and have him move up to the entrance as they leave and try to ambush them if they come back. I don't think he'd want to leave his hiding spot entirely even to pursue.

Fun idea to hide something like a phylactory. Take a portable hole, stitch a portable hole to its backside, put the object in one of the portable holes with a bit of sovereign glue to keep it there at the bottom. Place the double sided hole object side down inside another portable hole. Who would ever think look?

>>97659361
>Place the double sided hole object side down inside another portable hole
Doesn't that make a bomb?

>>97659366
You're thinking portable hole inside a bag of holding, or vice versa

I think I solved my Wizard Tower-Staff issue, tell me if you see any flaws in it.

>Make a big fucking tower that looks like a wizard staff
>Enchant it with some sort of magic. Stronghold enchantments or whatever, maybe enchant it as a regular magic staff
>further Enchant it as an Intelligent Magic Item or as an Item Familiar
>now that it's a construct, slap a Strink Collar from Arms & Equipment Guide on it. (Shape it as a button or something)
>Now it's a staff ta-da

I don't know if this would shrink the stuff inside safely though. This seems to be my greatest hurdle. How do I make it a sort of extra dimentional space but also physically locked to tower/staff without it going weird. Simply make a Mordikainen Mansion or demiplane on it fucks with the idea.

>>97659366
>>97659436
In theory this is supposed to apply to any extra-dimensional space to prevent stacking-hacking(putting multiple bags of holding in one for more space without buying a more expensive version).
There's plenty of room for exceptions though. I seem to recall a magic crossbow that stored extra ammo in an extra dimensional space for quicker reloading and imo it would be poor form to surprise a player with that applying for the explosion rules without at least warning. Similarly I'd let players take their equipment including bags of holding and the like into the space of a magnificent mansion spell or similar cases.

>>97660196
Did the GtiP thread help at all?

>>97661163
>it would be poor form to surprise a player with that applying for the explosion rules without at least warning
Gods, that sounds like a "Gotcha DM"'s wet dream, if those exist outside of internet horror stories that is.

>>97660196
Fluff can be whatever you and your DM agree to.
For actual costs and mechanics look at magic items or spells similar to the effect you're trying to achieve like Daern's Instant Fortress >>97654537
Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion spell leveled to the desired size. Always-active/unlimited-cast cost in exchange for being able to enlarge/shrink it whenever and keep all your alterations.
Of course you'd pay for whatever furnishings too.
You potentially lose out on some of the normal benefits of the spell but the price should still be in the right ballpark.

>>97661171
Yeah I'd probably just discuss it with the group. Like do you want it to be consistent across the board? Exceptions with in-universe explanation? Or just say screw it and make it work however works best to move along with the adventure instead of getting hung up on stuff.

>>97659282
can he take a 20 in this case? I thought taking 20 was for scenarios where you may try again and again 20 times to get it right?

>>97661206
"When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take."

He can trivially hear that something's happening at all given that the listen DC for a battle is -10, compared to DC 25 for making out a whispered conversation (if they're even whispering at all, making out a conversation is DC 10). There's no penalty for failure, and he's got nothing but time as they slowly muck down the trench. I don't see why he couldn't take 20, though I wouldn't say that guarantees he makes out any particular snippet.

>>97661171
It did. I actually made an account for the first time in years since ive been there cause I wanted to solve this conundrum & more heads are better than one

Hey BoneKnightanon, have you considered Tomb Tainted Soul? I was just thinking, you could scoop up some Black Sand & get constant healing just by keeping some one you. Maybe animate it & keep it in a bag. When combat starts dump it out. Maybe Shrink it with Shrink Item if possible (not sure if it counts as a magical item) then you could wear it like a cloak which would be badass.

>>97649597
>>97649597
Anyone got the ISO for the Character Generator that came with the original PHB? I wanna check it out for curiositys sake

>>97666927
...eh? I have the original 3.5e phb bought exactly when came out but i'm not aware of that. Was a 3.0 thing or an english first print only thing?

>>97667056
3.0 thing. Just bought a used phb, i was pleasantly surprised myself.

>>97666927
This one?
https://archive.org/details/dnd_character_creator_demo

>>97667389
Thanks Anon!

>>97667438
>Press (button) to turn off my annoying voice

Take a shield & add a glassteel/riverine cover on a hinge, kind of like a toilet seat lid that locks in place. Between the shield & the cover add a Portable Hole folded to cover just the size of the shield face while protected by the Glassteel Lid. Now you can have the party wizard hide inside the hole inside the shield, occasionally casting spells by lifting the lid & poking a hand or wand out. Or put a big cannon in there with an artillery crew. Or smuggle a small army into a place. You could even Enchant the Shield with Flying & have it be the party bus, just a small porthole window floating down the road. You might need to talk to your DM about the metaphysics, but it might be possible to use an immovable rod as a locking mechanism, but it depends on if the rod counts as specially effecting the outside world or just the lid as it is relative to the portable hole.

I like the idea of the frontliner having his shield pop up & a massive cannon hidden inside blasts the guy he's fighting

I always see powerful cleric, mage and melee builds shared around, but never really see optimized crazy power level rogues. What does that look like?

>>97671645
UMD abuse
some busted hide-in-plain-sight ability
pierce magical concealment/improved precise shot
very high initiative
reduce-person halfling with a level of monk to flurry of blows with shuriken while TWFing with rapid shot, getting like 9 sneak attacks a turn for 15d6 damage each + 2 str damage
those spells that let you sneak attack normally immune enemies

>>97671645
Darkstalker, Pierce Magical Concealment, Ring of Blinking, quick draw, bandolier, acid or alchemists' fire flasks, and as many magic items to make your sneak attack apply to more things as you can get is about as good as it gets.

>>97671645
Don't forget the classic acid flask to hit touch AC. Rogues also have absolutely no value in taking level 20, making them one of the classes most highly incentivized to multi-class or prestige class (after barbarian, cleric, and sorcerer, who are each one level long).

>>97670604
Off-the-cuff kitbashing with world-logic like this is often considered "bad form" in the 3.X community due to how many fiddly little rule interactions need adjudicated, so you'd need to spend a bit cross-referencing existing rules, and the "putting one extradimensional space in another destroys the two and dumps contents into the Astral Plane" standard is a lot nastier when it's not just hauling convenience.

I'd personally base the "exchange of fire" text off the MM3 Siege Crab's Shielded Compartment. To support reinforcements bringing Handy Haversack arsenals, I'd use portals instead of extradimensional spaces, which on the one hand makes the available transit essentially unbounded but on the other demands you have a "real" location to defend instead of just clown-carting everybody. Conversely, secure the "lid" with the simple Hold Portal instead of an Immovable Rod, specified as just any Heavy Shield to the portal's Tower so that further pushes relating to it can be foisted off on blinging out another, separate, shield.

>>97671820
>Rogues also have absolutely no value in taking level 20
If you can get extra arms for cheap then Multiweapon Fighting DPR is a thing, even if people usually just shrug at the d6 scaling in favor of stacking multipliers on Craven.

>>97671809
>>97671820
>>97672088

What makes acid/alchemist fire so notable?

Also, im not saying you HAVE to go Rogue 20, many melee martial builds multiclass a ton but they are still "fighters" or "barbarians" or "monks" etc. Ive just never seen a goofy build with Rogue levels as a base/stepping off point

>>97672339
Not any of those anons, but I think it's just an easy way to deliver sneak attacks against touch AC.

>>97672339
They're a ranged touch attack, so you're targeting a much lower AC.

And you never see rogue because as much as they are my favorite class, everything you can do with skills you can do with spells, and sneak attack damage is nice martial burst damage but fucking anything can deal damage. You're feat-starved, choking under a 3/4 BAB and one good save, and your class features are flavorful but niche. There's just no reason to be there. You might like the rogue/swashbuckler build with Daring Outlaw, that's at least got some more heft to it.

>>97672339
the best weapon would be some kind of ranged touch damage attack, with several attacks, like produce flame
but produce flame is fire damage (easily resisted) and makes it impossible to hide (unless greater invisibility)
maybe a custom spell if your DM allows

>>97672339
Daring Outlaw Swashbuckler as mentioned, but also Swift Hunter Ranger fulfill the Rogue fantasy super quickly and easily. The rogue as a class is also virtually invalidated by the ranger's Hunter's Eye (?) spell that provides sneak attack from a spell slot. A "high power rogue" is probably just a factotum or beguiler.

>>97672088
>Off-the-cuff kitbashing with world-logic like this is often considered "bad form" in the 3.X community due to how many fiddly little rule interactions need adjudicated,

No way the community that tried to justify the Peasant Railgun & such frowns on opportunistic wording or clever Item use. I've seen people try to make water saw lightsabers with Bottles of Water

>>97672339
>What makes acid/alchemist fire so notable?
In addition to the already-mentioned of Touch AC, which lets you frequently ignore attack bonus investment, I recall some really jank interpretations about splash attacks that I think were excised by late-lifecycle errata.

>>97672959
>No way the community that tried to justify the Peasant Railgun & such frowns on opportunistic wording or clever Item use.
That likeness has been harshly turned against as the community's tightened up. Seen similar happen to Ardent early entry shenanigans, as well as citing Complete Arcane to back up some not-official-errata dev statement papering over Precocious Apprentice early entry. 'Course, that's hardly unitary, and my experience is mostly GiantITP-adjacent where the whiteroom assumptions are especially strong, so your mileage is likely to vary.

But it's also just good form to bottle up those world interactions into "hard" mechanics consolidated into a dedicated item entry based off existing ones so that the DM doesn't have to go back over five different rules and consciously think how they "should" interact with the wonky constructed world-state on the spot or take the leap into pure ad-hoc ruling with the attendant risks of accruing inconsistencies.

>>97673177
My perspective is it's a game and if the DM is cool with the Broadside Buckler letting you fire a cannon salvo then you're fine, and if they're not then it doesn't matter if there's a reading of the rules where it might be kosher. A lot of the bickering goes in circles because you either take it in the faith of people trying to make it work or of people trying to prove you can't stop them.

>>97673765
>Broadside Buckler
Fuck yeah im gonna give it that name Badass, thank you anon

>>97673177
Yeah, I first cut my teeth in the Giantip forums & thats the place like 90% of the optimization handbooks were written. I think MinMax was just as hard for Total Optimization too, but I didnt post there.

>>97649597
never played 3rd, i'm morbidly curious about the potential of builds. what is it like? tell me the power of 3.5 pcs

>>97673765
>Broadside Buckler
Well, if you're going to constrain it to specifically a siege engine, then there's a lot less questions about rules interactions being asked compared to a shield that's big enough to walk out of and can be only partially closed to protect those inside while they use whatever ranged actions they feel like going out. My "point" is basically that the system's too crunchy to leave ALL of that on the DM to come up with on the fly as the players kitbash random Weird Shit into Ever Weirder Shit.

>>97674323
Swings wildly depending on a bunch of fiddly stuff about available sources, how the DM rules certain weirdly-written ones like the Ardent lacking a Maximum Power Level Known column, and of course what area of mechanics your PC is working with. Pure Fighter-types can put out enough DPR to blow through walls from like level 5 if you get enough Power Attack boosters (watch out for collateral damage collapses), Wizards can do basically anything right from core so long as the DM lets them buy scrolls in line with the DMG suggestions, and Psions are capable of being optimized into doing everything they can as much as they feel like, "normal" action economy be damned.

>>97674323
Look up PunPun.

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PF1e vent here.
How would you approach a GM who is never giving your character any kind of treasure while tthe rest of the party gets extra special abilities, gear and all the other stuff while you run back to the city like a cuck to sell the scrap you loot and buy gear.
I play a martial character while the rest of the party plays casters and one Synthesist (who insists that he needs all this stuff because his class is bad).

>>97674323
The ceiling is "literally breaks the game" high, and the floor is "pretty much unplayable" low.
As the other anon said, a bunch of the most notorious stuff relies on stretching the rules beyond what's reasonable, using very specific readings, or some times even misinterpreting interactions and the like, but even outside of the realm if white room theoretical optimization spells alone can solve pretty much any problem, given the tight circumstances.

>>97675614
I have been that DM, and the big difference was performance.
The martial dude in my case was by far the most competent at the table. The other guys were so shit that I gave them extra stuff in order to not pull him down, or grind the game to a halt.
I would ask your DM outright why the other pcs get tailored stuff and you do not, with no heat or judgment, just something that you have noticed.
Details matter here, and while you are using 'casters' as a catch all, do realize it is very easy to play any caster as a net negative to the party. Could they pull their weight without the DM propping them up, in your opinion?

>>97675897
The Synthesist for sure. By virtue of playing his class he is unkillable and a large Strength 30 martial at level 8 on top of having spells. The casters in our party are few and far between. Our wizard is mostly blasting things to some effect and our Cleric is using buffing spells. We also have an Orcle who is pretty much trolling all the time.

>>97676043
>By virtue of playing his class he is unkillable and a large Strength 30 martial at level 8 on top of having spells.
The funny thing is that the action economy still favors somebody who understands what they're doing with a "standard" Eidolon, as it allows them to do martial and caster stuff in the same round without hoops. The issue is that the floor is so obnoxiously higher that it got banned from organized play for running over published adventures with basically no effort.

>>97675672
I think it's also important to mention that spells can also cause problems that only spells can solve, so it's not just that they're a skeleton key, they make themselves mandatory.

I want to play a fairy (small, flyer, dex-focused) spellcaster of some kind in D&D 3.5/PF1e, what is the best race for it?

>>97679507
Actually, as an addendum to this, is it possible to play an effective small fighter type in either of those editions?

>>97679507
Probably the petal, it is a flower faerie:
https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Petal

>>97679514
Sneak attack doesn't care how big the weapon is, so you could probably be a reasonable rogue especially with the size bonuses to Hide. Honestly most martial power doesn't come from base weapon damage so your biggest reason to not be Tiny is that you are very easy to grapple.

First death in my new family game - son's paladin with his 5 hit points total, got his neck broke by a zombie critting him for 18 damage.
The upside is he rolled up a char with 18 charisma afterwards.
So question about sorcerers - should I allow the bloodline thing from PF1?
I am comparing PF1 to dnd 3.5 here - wizard, no major changes. But Sorcerers get these bloodlines now - were they seen as under-powered in 3.5 and this is a fix for them?

Using materials from either 3.5 of PF1 - is there a way to start at level with either a 3rd known spell (I want to give him Grease, Magic Missile and Burning Hands options) or to up damage on Magic Missile without picking orc?

>>97680765
pretty much every class got fiddly new abilities and customizations in PF

>>97680765
Dragonwrought Kobold

>>97680765
>But Sorcerers get these bloodlines now - were they seen as under-powered in 3.5 and this is a fix for them?
Compared to wizards at least. Being half a spell level behind sucks. It's also easy to screw yourself over by picking situational spells, which encourages you to go for reliable stuff like blasting instead. Except the "must spend a full-round action applying metamagic" rule punishes you for doing that.

(Sorcerers *do* have more potential as blasters than a Wizard, including some exclusive spells + ways to negate the metamagic thing, but it takes effort to assemble one; easier to play a Warmage instead and be respectable at it)

>>97680765
Note that there are feats in 3.5 which grant a sorcerer as many as 9 extra spells known from a fixed list; PF bloodlines occupy a similar design space. But also that some PF races have a Favored Class Bonus granting +20 spells known.

>Using materials from either 3.5 of PF1 - is there a way to start at level with either a 3rd known spell (I want to give him Grease, Magic Missile and Burning Hands options) or to up damage on Magic Missile without picking orc?
Warmage from Complete Arcane is like a sorcerer with way more spells known, except 90% of them are just slightly different ways to deal damage.* Also they add their Int modifier to spell damage, and have a feat which adds more depending on class level.

* At lv3/6/11/16 you also learn a single spell from the Wizard/Sorcerer list, but spells which aren't Evocations count as 1 level higher.

>>97681102
I am either looking the wrong thing or not getting it.
https://dndtools.net/feats/races-of-the-dragon--83/dragonwrought--748/
I found mention of some cheese of how being a dragon they are ageless you can start middle aged without the physical penalties, but that's all.
>>97681248
so based on that would you say the bloodlines are too much to be included in 3.5 game?
>>97681323
>Warmage from Complete Arcane
I like this. too bad that no control spells, but reliable damage and simple blaster to play.
>there are feats in 3.5 which grant a sorcerer as many as 9 extra spells known from a fixed list
can you recall what those are?
>PF races have a Favored Class Bonus granting +20 spells known.
will look for those.

In general once I started this game and trying to character build more, as soon as I included that PF1 "+2 to any ability" to humans, along with the +1 extra feat,
finding it really hard to justify not going human with every character concept. Most other races are effectively +2 anyway, and you just end up losing a free feat for maybe darkvision or something. Plus humans are just easier to find into any story.

>>97681628
>I found mention of some cheese of how being a dragon they are ageless you can start middle aged without the physical penalties, but that's all.
The aging rule is on p39 - they basically have the monk's Timeless Body ability but available from lv1 (meaning +3 to all mental stats if you start as venerable).
And p43 has the "Draconic Rite of Passage" rule where any kobold can get a sorcerer spell as a 1/day SLA for a small cost.

There's also a feat in a web article which upgrades the SLA to 3/day, then at 6+ HD they can repeat the ritual to get an extra level of sorcerer casting(!).
https://web.archive.org/web/20150620053440/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

Kobolds were a joke race, but with all the support they got (plus general support for creatures with the dragonblood subtype, which they get without jumping through any hoops) they became one of the best caster options in the game.

>>97681628
Im talking about the web enhancement stuff here >>97681842

You dont have to go full PunPun with dragonwroght kobolds, but they do end up being one of the best choices for Sorcerers. A free level of Sorcerer that isnt a level on paper can let them dip into stuff without slowing them down, & if I remember correctly, there's a way to get 3 or 4 levels of Sorcerer through ritual & stuff.

Rituals, by & large are slept on in 3.5. There's some good ones out there & they arent reliant on being a spellcaster

Sorcerer (Charisma 20)
Feat Level 1: Furious Spell (Metamagic)
>A furious spell that deals hit point damage adds twice the spell’s original level to the amount of damage dealt by the spell. Spells that affect multiple targets deal the extra damage once to each target, regardless of whether the spell deals its damage all at once or in multiple hits (in the latter case, add the extra damage to the first hit against each target).
+
Trait: Magical Lineage (Magic Missile)
>Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell’s final adjusted level.

So this should get him 1d4+3 magic missiles at level 1, correct? and than at level 3, he only gets that +3 bonus if he splits his missiles to different targets.

Its either this or Conjuration Focus to get the DC of his grease up to 16.

Sorcerer (Cha 20, Str 10, Dex, 8, Con 8, Int 12, Wis 12, 2 hp), Race: Azata Blooded Aasimar
Unicorn Bloodline
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/unicorn-sorcerer-bloodline/
1st level feat: Furious Spell (Metamagic)
1st Trait: Magical Lineage (Magic Missile)
If he lives to get his next feat, will probably be Conjuration (focus) for better greasing.
any advice for a good 2nd trait for this?

sorry, didn't mean too spam, thought my first message failed to post.