Could MTG die one day or is it too big to fail? What would have to happen for it to end?
>>97654250The player base is like 35 years old on average, the game is fucked unless they find a way to get younger people into it. Well it's fucked either way but they might be able to keep it going. Cowabunga dude!
>>97654250Hasbro is basically one false step away from imploding so MTG as a contiguous organism could certainly die, though I'm sure someone would scoop up the rights and begin anew in short order. Though some might say the first death occurred when Hasbro bought Wizards in the first place.
>>97654250>some might say the first death occurred when Hasbro bought Wizards in the first placeAs a reminder, the first set released after Hasbro acquired WotC was Mercadian Masques.
>>97654269WotC makes so much money that Hasbro could just spin itself into an IP content holder that only makes MtG and it wouldn't be the worst idea.
>>97654263That’s still decades of play for those of us who can resist putting a gun in our mouths.
>>97654250They've basically pulled a fortnite with how much crossover content they do, so I don't think it will happen anytime soon. However, most people just play EDH which is viewed as more casual and able to have players not needing/wanting to upgrade a deck outside of picking up a few cards in a set so I'm not sure how that is related to long term growth. That being said, the game is expensive enough that I don't see a lot of younger people getting involved with the physical game either.
>>97654263my favorite thing is to spot is people who haven't been into an lgs in years making comments like this. there has always been new blood trickling in.
>>97654538It's from the hasbro financial reportshttps://investor.hasbro.com/magic-gathering>The average tabletop player is ~30 years old; the majority range from 13-45 years old.
>>97654250Too big to fail at this point, UB will keep bringing in casuals like with Final Fantasy and Lord of them Rangs
>>97654250Nothing /tg/ related is remotely close to "too big to fail".
>>97654250People will be playing MTG until what passes for modern society no longer exists.Hasbro and WotC might die, but the game will not. It would genuinely take an actual apocalypse for that to change.
>>97654413>Mercadian MasquesWas that a good or bad set? I dont know anything i just recently got into collecting cause the old man i used to buy yugioh from, gifted me some mtg cards cause they rarely sell
>>97654538a single autistic 29 year old does not count
>>97654414It honestly might make the game better instead of milking mtg to make up for hasbros other stupid ideas. I wouldnt care about turtles and avatar and star trek if the art and mechanics werent dogshit.
>>97654538But will that new blood stick around?
>>97654250>Could MTG die one day or is it too big to fail?If Hasbro/WotC somehow died I'd say the game would go on for a few years at least, afterwards it would become a collector's thing like old sports cards, simply because the production would end and without new product releases it just couldn't go on as it currently does>What would have to happen for it to end?Hasbro would have to absolutely go down and out without any possibility of selling the MtG license off to some other corporation with the economic might to continue the production and release of new content
>>97654250For its current batch of paypigs to die. So give it like 30~ years.
>>97654694It was a set full of busted shit.
American isolationism and its withdrawal from the international markets
It's already resorting to idiotic cash grab collaborations. It's clearly dying.
>>97654426Yeah, the the heck happened to Standard 60 card play decks at Target or comic stores? I'm sad to see those go.
>>97657115Standard has been an absolute shitshow of not rotating blocks normally, lots of bans, and too many packs being released. WotC has also shifted their focus to cross-over content and cards for EDH since that's what most of the players are doing now. Arena absorbed a lot of the remaining players for standard.
I don't think it's likely to die in its current state and with its current ownership. Much more likely is Hasbro gets sold off and the various pieces get portioned off to other companies and whoever buys MTG decides it's just not profitable enough to keep running.
>>97654250There is no such thing as "too big to fail". Everything will die one day. Only question is when.
>>97654250No
>>97654250Someone will buy it if Hasbro dies. It's a definite possibility considering their non WotC business
>>97654538Kids play Pokemon or occasionally Lorcana from what I've seen
>>97654250it's already dying
>>97654540Mean and median are not the same and choosing average tells a specific story
At least half the people I see playing are in their early 20s if not younger. Not sure what you fags are going on about.They do make me feel like an old man though.
Define Magic? Because it seems to me that it died already and was reborn as EDH.
>>97654250Their revenue is collapsing, with singular farts of success every few months being not enough to outgrow costs of retarded speed of production.There are multiple legal cases against WoTC and Hasbro for mismanaging MTG and losing investors' money.The funny thing is that Hasbro really needs MTG to keep going. They don't really have a lot of still alive IPs. They survive on fucking Monopoly and Cludo."Too big too fall" apply only when something is actually big and Hasbro and WoTC are shadow of their former glory.
>>97654250MTG as it was in the 90s has already died, like >>97660361 said. Pick up a card from Beta to The Dark, even 4th edition/Ice Age/Alliances and you'll see prints which we'll never see again. The rules text, the art, the font, the colours. It's astonishing how much more "magic" those cards feels to you. They leave it up to your imagination to interpret them.That's not saying new Magic is bad. As a game it's more playable, the improvements of the rules text is great from that perspective. I just which they had understood the importance of legace and kept printing the "old look" when they switched over to the modern frame. It would've made retro cards for every card out there, a more uniform look for those playing older formats.
>>97661041>The rules text, the art, the font, the colours. It's astonishing how much more "magic" those cards feels to you. They leave it up to your imagination to interpret them.You're fucking retarded. These cards looked like shit. The wording was confusing and nonsensical. There was zero consistency and you could oftentimes barely ever read what was in the cards.Of all the things to wax lyrical about, you pick the fact the cards looked awful and the rules text was confusing so you had to imagine some shit?
>>97654589>too big to failMtG has had multiple failure sets in the last year. Yes, they are also during a year where they had the two best selling sets of all time - but note that WotC only considers sales figures to stores, not retention and sales onto the actual playerbase. Rosewater stated that Spider-Man was "one of the best selling sets of all time" but that was because they printed it into oblivion and forced stores to take huge allocations of it, and almost no one bought it (players and collectors alike). TMNT is also being printed into the ground...EOE was the actual fastest selling set of the year and it barely had any paper printing at all. It would have easily been top 3 sales if they printed more of it.
>>97661064You're making yourself look like a fool calling me a retard when it's you who has the trouble to1. read the english language2. appreciate aesthetic art3. imagining design concepts4. understand the basic rules worked as a rule 05. play a game for fun
>>97661064We finally found someone who's a bigger faggot than OP and it's you
>>97661095>3. imagining design concepts>4. understand the basic rules worked as a rule 0>5. play a game for funThis is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Imagine if you were playing chess and the rules just said "the knight moves in an L shape" with no explanation as to what the fuck they mean by that. Games should be functional and complete before anything and everything else. If I have to do the game design for them, why am I paying for these cards? And also, the art looked retarded. I'd much rather have something made by an actual competent artist then some 10 year old's scribbles shoved in a frame that fucking ugly. You have to be a real contrarian to look at this and think "VGH... the old card is SO MUCH better..."
>>97661130Yeah you're right Dan Frazier was a notoriously terrible artist. Good example retard-kun.
>>97661210>some artists were good>ergo all of the terrible babytier scribbles didn't existI guess Dominik Mayer existing means all mtg art is a 10/10 then
>>97661266Please politely stop embarrassing yourself. Being a contrarian and saying old MTG cards looked bad is the most unpopular opinion you will ever have. Nobody will sympathize with you because it's just objectively wrong.
>>97661130The fact that modern cards are all WORDSWORDSWORDS with endlessly expanding power creep whereas the older simpler cards had room to actually write down some flavor and lore proves you are arguing in bad faith. Go back to playing battletech with pennies and quarters because that's all you technically "need", o soulless one.
>>97661064Maybe I'm retarded, but what's wrong with Gaea's Touch? It seems pretty obvious, the card lets you play an extra forest each turn and you can sacrifice it to get 2 green mana. Interrupt just means instant now, meaning it happens before anything else. The 2 mana effect is used as an instant, not the additional forest effect. What exactly is confusing about that card?The art is wonderful, by the way.
>>97661277Oh yeah because old Magic cards were so simple and not wordy at all
>>97661271You can pick a handful of good cards all you want but it won't change the fact that 99.99% of them looked like a preschooler drew them and the frame looked like complete ass. But I'm going to bet that you're going to go and talk about how pic related is a masterpiece and not some shit a band of teenagers would put on their dog water metal cover album
>>97661130Your card-examples illustrates exactly what I mean.The Earth Elemental looks like a crude sketch in your eyes but I view it more as a concept art, an imagination of the creature you're summoning, a basic form to help you fantasize about what the thing is and what it does. It's a collossal clump of stone. Heavy and slow. And to me it's only a bonus that Dan Frazier channeled his inner Picasso to use cubismic shapes to draw earth as an elemental.Now, perhaps Jason put more effort in his piece, Collective Inferno is rather beautifully painted with the whirl of fire channeled by the elementals. It has a solid composition with the dark figures in contrast to the bright flame (it kinda reminds me of Disintegrate, Incinerate and Wall of Lava). Yet Collective Inferno is only what it is. It doesn't really invoke any imagination in me. I don't really care about the figures, I'm not that passionate to know who they are or why they're gathering, what they're really doing, and how the card ties itself with the rest of the cards (I honestly don't know where to read the lore anymore, not that I care that much about lorwyn). This card is just a game piece. And I've even played it a few times as I enjoy playing limited but funnily enough I've only casted it to make my goblins do more damage. I haven't really used it for elementals yet as it doesn't fit that strategy that well.
>>97661389>art that is worse is actually better because I can IMAGINE something goodI'm not even sure what to say. This is the most retarded opinion I can imagine
>>97661349>I'M NOT CHERRYPICKING, YOU ARE!!!!Just stop posting.
>>97661400If you're going to keep doing it then so will I. That art looks shit by the way, the scene is barely identifiable.
>>97661349I love this art. I recognize it isn't of the highest quality but it stood out to me as a kid. The black and red and brown colors is a great contrast to the blue boarder and makes it stand out on the field. I can spot this card 10 feets away.I don't hate new art. I just dislike the power of the art director and how streamlined everything is. They decide a uniform look for the set. Why must it be so for every set? Why must certain cards look exactly the same? It was worse 5-10 years ago when wotc really went ham with every color has a specific colorscheme for their art. Pic related. Sometimes you got absolutely wrecked in limited because you thought one card was another. While Voice of Victory/Bearer of Glory isn't building on the same concept it has caused confusion for me more than once but I'm still a fan of it (though I'd prefer the token/creature or spell/creature style).
>>97661397How do you still exist in the modern world? By everything you've said I'd imagine you were from the 17th century or something.
>>97661400>>97661420these are both great, both for the same and different reasons not needed to go into
>>97661440>factions have consistent color schemes and artstyles >that's bad... somehowdo you also complain when the Orzhov wear white and black robes? Christ.
>>97661420>That art looks shit by the way,What's crazy isn't even that people like you exist, it's that I have to share a world with you in it. Can't you just be Khazak or something or some other random minority that will never learn english so your posts don't pollute the thoughtweft?
>>97661506it's a mishmash of blurred, inconsistent shapes. one of the soldiers is laughing, another looks constipated, there is no sense of weight or movement. their swords and spears look like half melted tusks and twigs. the blood spray is somewhere completely random. not to mention i like my arts somewhere vaguely related to the concept and mechanics. stasis is fine, but this doesn't convey anything related to the card at all, nor does the flavor text. the art you've brought also has the same problem. You're probably going to say something about "imagining" but that's retarded. if I'm supposed to hallucinate a connection that doesn't exist might as well have all the cards be Rothko paintings that I have to interpret.
>>97661344Even the oracle text for this card is wordy and confusing
>>97661506This early 00s era is when Magic art peaked imo. Cool looking and professional while still being distinct and basic enough to stand out on a 1" picture on a playing card. A lot of modern cards just look boring on the table because so much detail is lost at that small size
>>97661349The art looking like hot dog water garage metal is part of the appeal.
>>97661673you're artistically illiterate
>>97661271it looks even better with the white border
>>97654694Bad. Previous set was way too overpowered so Masques was consciously made way too underpowered. Prophecy (third part or Mercadian Masques/Nemesis/Prophecy block) used to be considered second worst expansion in history of MtG (I don't know if it's still the case.)
>>97664523I used to hate this art, just like everyone else did. And that's despite playing Stasis when it was still legal in Extended (before 5E rotated out). Then I found out this wasn't a commissioned piece, but a gift for Richard Garfield from a relative, to celebrate "his little game" being made. I've hated it a bit less since.I also have the furry porn parody version saved, but for obvious reasons can't post it here.
>>97664587Catbox it, my friend! please
>>97664605Dropped it into MEGA>https://mega.nz/file/UggVRBrD#Bod7k9oS8KVNBCfh3oV3Ehl8mZRllk-a3J0Xqf97LBsHere's another piece of Magic trivia: the original art for Keeper of the Mind (Exodus) was rejected as "too risque" and had to be edited. The original image (with varied forms of censorship) was used for the card "Censorship" in Unglued.
I played this game years and years ago, and I guess I just don't "get" it>stack your deck with a bunch of cheap OP creatures (skinrender, some one-drop zombie or something that can't be blocked that I can't remember the name of, a bunch of goblins that can attack immediately and do all sorts of annoying shit)>put a bunch of creature removal spells in your deck (lighting bolt, terror, fire death thing that exiles things when it kills them)>maybe do some lame graveyard synergy or something so you can cast your stupid one drop creatures from your graveyard when they diebam. your deck is unbeatable. you can either make a deck that does the same thing and its luck of the draw, or make a deck thats specifically tailored to defeat an annoying aggro deck. but then it's just a rock-paper-scissors game. and what's fun or interesting about that?I guess that's why they've added all these dumb new formats, and crap like spiderman and lord of the rings or whatever that millennials basedgasm over
>>97654538The last time I saw anybody younger than me (I'm only 25) at a store was kamigawa (you do the math). Kids cannot read or do math and this will 100% impact the future of this game.
>>97661307It's not instant, it's mana ability.Interrupt was once the fastest effect speed in MTG and was exclusive to counter effects and mana abilities. Later counter cards got moved down to being just instants and mana abilities got their own, currently the fastest, effect speed to keep players away from being able to lock opponent out of tapping for mana. Think about it as split-second on steroids.
>>97664587>>97664605>>97664623Kill yourself, furfaggot tourist.
>>97664633I don't think you play this game much. Pic related is the current top deck in Standard
>>97665443Isn't that list exactly what he's talking about?Spells are all cheap interactions and creatures are cheap threats.
>>97665443Steam Vents is in standard now?
>>97665542Shocklands came back with Edge of Eternities (allied color) and Lorwyn Eclipsed (enemy color).
>>97661349Is the art great? No. Is it honest and not beaten into as generic a digital art template as possible by marketing executives and art directors determined to homogenize everything and make it palatable to even the stupidest of audiences? Yes.A thousand times would I behold bad hand drawn art over yet another generic digital art submission crapped out in an afternoon by someone on their tablet. They are mechanically competent, sure. The imperfections are what make them human.
>>97654250It's already dead to me and that's what matters. I sold 20 years of product and bought Sorcery tcg.
>>97654250MTG still has the best mechanics design of any TCG. When the mechanics designers start being awful (most likely when the old guard are all gone), then it will slowly die.
>>97667486>MTG still has the best mechanics design of any TCG.Care to elaborate? What about Magic's mechanics makes it hold up to the countless other card games that iterated on it? How is it any better than, say, Duel Masters?
>>97669536What is there that Duel Masters even does better then Magic? And no, the land system is not better. "you can use any card as a land" has never been a good idea.
>>97669549>And no, the land system is not better. "you can use any card as a land" has never been a good idea.How is it not? How is having dedicated cards as a resource system better? I'm mostly asking because I'm curious about the mechanic appeal of the game, not to say whether something is objectively better or not.
>>97669667The land system introduces all sorts of interesting deckbuilding concerns, while also helping with establishing the color pie in a natural way. You aren't locked in an archetype during the construction of your deck like in, say, Hearthstone.With lands you have complete control of the color density and spread across your deck. You can freely manipulate how much you want to devote towards any color. You can splash pieces of an archetype to better handle other decks or to cover your weaknesses, or specialize to be more consistently good at one thing. The fact you can choose which lands you want to play and get various small tradeoffs makes lands a really interesting part of the game.Different decks have different requirements in terms of how many colors they need, how many colored pips they need, and how much total mana they need, and fine-tuning the tradeoffs of playing more or fewer lands and choosing how many untapped lands vs how many lands with activated abilities, etc you want to play adds a lot of depth to deck building. If all of your cards can be played as resources (like in Lorcana) such that you always have the exact amount of resources you expect, the way you use resources will be more uniform–yes, some decks will play more cheap cards and either try to end the game sooner or play more ways to draw more cards and some will play more expensive cards and try to play longer games, but you lose a lot of novelty at the extremes. It’s hard to find decks that have different curves or use resources in really different ways the way that Magic decks where less than a third or more than half the deck is lands.Not only this, but playing a land is easy. Choosing the order that you play your lands if you have a lot of different lands in your deck can be tricky, but for the most part, putting a land into play is essentially a free action. This lets you advance the game and leave your mental energy to interact with your opponent.
>>97665127I saved it from here because I found it funny. I also saved drawn porn of Akroma (both white and red) and photos of some ca/tg/irl who posed with a mox by her box. Back in the day, before the crackdown, moderators let stuff like that slide...but you wouldn't know that, would you, tourist?>>97664633>>97665516That's really a problem that was introduced by the shift to tournament Magic in mid-90s and the general acceleration of the game around Tempest. Before blocks, Magic was more of a slow board game where you gradually built your board presence towards a knockout finisher. Juzam Djinn was a big deal because of how fast it showed up compared to Fat Moti or Shivan. Sligh changed the equation, but even then control decks still had tools to stabilize and pull off wins. Color hozers (protection and otherwise) were plentiful as well. I should know, I played Type 1 Burn against people with Power 9 (I was poor and they were not). I frequently had to pivot my deck towards what you'd call a more "prison" set-up these days, especially after sideboarding. Mox Monkey was a great equalizer, as was Dwarven Miner - though I sometimes had to kill my own creatures against Oath of Druids to prevent recurring lifegain from Spike Feeder, for example.
>>97670957Magic wasn't "slow," it's just that creatures were dog fucking shit. Creatureless decks such as ProsBloom or Donate combo could easily win very quickly. The only decks that had to amass board presence were the ones running creatures.
>>97661706They can't all be winners.
>>97654250Someday the piggies who keep coming back to the trough will die but they won't stop dumping money into it before then.
>>97665127>If I call them tourist first they can't call me one!Okay, redditfugee.
It might be the single most influential tabletop game since Dungeons & Dragons. The brand might die but its legacy never will. You'll just see people trying to clone or make their own versions of it. Half of the bgg top 100 is just different versions of things MTG already did.
>>97660361and EDH are getting fatigued of chase broken cards, commander tourist are migrating to the LOL one
>>97654250one day JotC will certainly drown in its own filth.but Magic will live on.
>>97654250Hasbro will go under first.WotC/Magic as an IP will be sold as a major brand. The new owner will make changes because they can/don’t have history with it. People dislike the changes and divide into new, old or whatever formats without support.As the cards stop being printed and MtG is shunted about between owners because it fails to make all the money people thought, it becomes just another card collecting game where old men fill binders.
>>97654250Nothing is ever "too big to fail."
>>97654250Everything dies eventually
>>97674235Or so the leaguecucks would like to hope
>>97674235Not really. Metacucks and funfags just naturally self-segregate.
>>97669549Shield System is pretty neat because there's catch-up mechanic for losing player cleverly baked into it.>Your opponent broke your shield? That's bad, here's a free card and potential free and instantaneous answer in the form of Shield Trigger effects.It basically takes all that's wrong with Pokemon TCG's prize system, flips it and then adds cute bonus on top of it.
>>97670890So a bunch of boring nerd shit only autistics care about. Lovely. Yeah, I'll take fucking around with what card to stuff in the mana zone in DM over this.
>>97670890>>97679858I like DM's mana system because it has surprise depth and novelty to it. Putting card into the mana zone in early game to retrieve them later is very valid thing to do. There are also charger spells that can be looped in similar manner.Deck building may be bit simplified in comparison to MtG, but I feel like it's more of a preference thing than issue with one of these systems.
>>97679858You're playing TCGs, you're an autistic nerd regardless
>>97677648>People dislike the changes and divide into new, old or whatever formats without support.That’s already happening with EDH, pauper, and recently premodern and planar standard. Normal standard is complete shit. Play cube.
>>97654250Mtg will never fail because then cards would be cheap and that will never happen
>>97679858>Yeah, I'll take fucking around with what card to stuff in the mana zone in DM over thisNo you won't because nobody plays that dead meme game lmao
>>97679858No one plays DM but autistic chinks
