Continuing from >>97588959In short this is a thread for talking about cool worldbuilding, stupid plot twists, cute planeswalker girls, and war crimes committed by Mark Rosewater.
>>97656953Edge of Eternities story was actually super fun. Very bold of WotC to make a pro-suicide faction
>>97657158I havent read that set story what even happens there?
>>97657199Magic rock that fucks with time by rewriting the past is unearthed by some mercs working under Tezzeret. They have to run away from the Summists/Celestial Palatinate, who are a religion that worships the opposition of entropy and by extension the Trolley Problem. Haliya is a squire from the Summists struggling with her faith who chases after them and after Alpharael, an escapee kamikaze bomber from the Monoists, a religion that believes that paradise will come when the universe is consumed by black holes, therefore we should all make as many black holes as possible and throw ourselves into them to get to that paradise. They run around their solar system, whose star the Monoists made into a black hole before it could go nova, avoiding the war between them and the Summists who want to reverse the star's blackholification so it can explode properly, killing everyone in the system but theoretically buying a few more hundreds of years' worth of matter amd energy to the universe, delaying its ultimate end via entropy. Tezzeret wants to get the magic rock so he can try and sell it to the entity that created it. A race called the Drix which are overseers of the cosmos, are all personally FTL capable and use clout as money is involved because the Monoists are using leashed Eldrazi as weapons of war which is super illegal. it's written by Seth Dickinson and it's actually really damn good. Lots of weird temporal fuckery because of the magic rock.
>>97657272>Leashed eldrazis as weaponsHow did Ugin, Nahiri and Sorin miss this plane?
>>97657318In the Edge, there's some funky shit going on. Enough visible expression of mana causes Eldrazi to just spawn out of nowhere and start eating it, and it's said that they were a catastrophic scourge in the cosmos before the Drix started culling them en masse. It's probably going to be 2 or so years before we actually get an explanation, though.
>>97657272>TezzeretThe fact that he went to become a space pirate is somehow really funny.
>>97656953MtG has lore?
>>97657318It's not a plane. It is quite literally the Edge of the Blind Eternities. The Edge is larger than the multiverse by virtue of surrounding it entirely.EoE seems to be based off old Urza's Saga era lore where dying planes are subsumed into the Chaos Wall and then ejected into the edge in its parts (mana, matter, radiation) before coalescing into things more similar to irl space.
>>97657390IIRC, eldrazis are natural habitants of the blind eternities, and the 3 titans had this habit of going into planes to feed, wouldnt be surprising if there is actually more eldrazis out there that for whatever reason arent as depredatory as the big 3, so unless something catch their attention and makes them manifest on a plane, they probably just chill out in blind eternities. I think Ugin even complained about the killing of Ulamog and Kozilek saying they were a important part of the balance of the multiverse, I wonder what do they balance? Maybe is something like the metroids and the X parasites, and we wont know what the eldrazis kept under control until their absence finally allows this danger to emerge again.
>>97657406https://youtube.com/watch?v=zFayjWhFOI0Now that he's no longer under Bolas' thumb he took up his legacy on aurafarming.
>>97657432Yes, quality varies a lot, but is there.
>>97657441Emrakul's apparition in the Eldritch Moon story seems to explain it that the titans were recycling planes. Basically they're fighting against entropy. So ideally they would be feeding on things like Shards of Alara (pre-Conflux) and turning them back into 5 color planes.
>>97657441I think it's been implied they "recycle" dead planes by breaking them down to their basic components.
>>97657272How do the insects and jellyfish fit into this?
>>97657445What is this expression meant to convey?
>>97657544In the backdrop there are multiple species doing their own things with variable levels of connection to the main plot. The Eumidians seed worlds with life to terraform them; they seeded a frozen world that the Kavu technically owned and terraformed it. The Kavu weren't doing anything with it because it was a frozen hellhole, but now that it is habitable they're saying it was their property, hand it over. The Eumidians say "fuck you, we literally made this planet" and now they're fighting over it. The Kavu are so desperate because they destroyed their planet by stripmining it for resources so unless they get a new place to live real quick they're doomed as a nation.The jellyfish are just there doing science in the background. They live in a gas giant inhospitable to other lifeforms, so they don't have to give a shit. They're involved with the plot because one of their exiles is basically Tezzeret's IT assistant since Tezzeret isn't very used to Edge tech and keeps acting like a boomer who can't use an ipad.
>>97657577>Jelly Jiggler how do I get the telly to show my soaps?
I like her a lot because she reminds me of Chiana from Farscape and makes Sorin job like the jobber he is.
>>97658288Same. Her design is really good. I also like her cards in general. Nahiri the Unforgiving is super fun to use
>>97658288i like her too but because angery women make my pp hard
>>97656953Now I'm curious how EoE would do as a setting or what would be unique enough to make subclasses.
>>97658288I can't wait for her and Sorin to finally fuck, there's like 10k years of foreplay man.
>>97659024Consider the women Sorin has had any meaningful interactions with:>Nahiri>Nissa>Avacyn>Olivia>SigardaAll of them think he's a shitbag and have tried to beat his ass at one point or other. Dude should seriously consider going gay because clearly he has no luck with women.
>>97659113The problem is that Sorin just sucks. People WANT to like him. There was even a moment in Midnight Hunt where Arlinn went to his house to beg him for help because she saw him as the protector of the plane and he actually kicked her out and nearly killed her in rage. People LIKE Sorin until they interact with him. It's not his luck, it's just that he sucks.
>>97659113In Sorin's honest defense, Olivia sucks more than him.But yeah the issue is he's an anti social asshole who's only human connection is his grandfather who's even worse than him. But now he runs a doctors without borders in Innistrad so I guess he's slightly better now.
You know it's kind of funny how Sorin rallied Iike half of the vampires in Innistrad against Nahiri, led them into battle and they all got their shit kicked in.I'm starting to think the only reason she even bothered with Emrakul was Avacyn and the angels. If it wasn't for her she could probably just have dragged Sorin to Zendikar with minimal fuss
Why is anyone even living in Innistrad now? With the Omenpaths can't they just leave for Dominaria or something?
>>97659221There are two (2) types of Innistrad resident. Insane psychopath hellbent on causing misery and suffering on everyone near, and the most stubborn motherfucker humanely imaginable, a man who would chop off his own head with a rusty spoon before he lets the first one win. They COULD leave. But that would mean giving up. That would mean letting the vampires and werewolves and necromancers and all those shitheads WIN. They'd rather die.
>>97659213Zendikar walkers are just built different>Nahiri stomped half the vampires on the vampire plane>Nissa held against Emrakul in a leyline tug of war>Kiora picked a fight with godMeanwhile, Sorin on his home turf gets manhandled by common vampires.
>>97659221We're definitely getting another Innistrad set before 2030 and it will plausibly touch on that issue.
>>97659221The vamps might just pull a Duskmourn and lure in gullible retards from other planes.
>>97659221>leave Innistrad>take a bet on nearest Omenpath>enter Ulgrotha/Grixis/DuskmournIt can always get worse.
>>97659768Ulgrotha has nice areas and neutral areas, it's not like the whole plane is the Barony. And even the Barony probably isn't any worse than Innistrad.Grixis is now part of a bigger plane, where you can find angels that don't go crazy.I think Duskmourn is the only real downgrade. I would have said Amonkhet too, but now they're fine and hosting the Wacky Races. Never underestimate the power of soft retcons.
>>97659195After the drama with the wedding he realised he had been acting too serious and from one bussiness to another and he wants to rest and explore the multiverse for the pleasure of it rather than trying to save something or stop some crisis, it would be nice if he actually mellows out, he can still be the arrogant prick of a group, but in a good way, kinda like Vegeta, has an ego and wants to be the one on charge, but still participates and helps with stuff, and ultimately cares about the group, no to mention it would fit his white-black color pair motif. I feel that could be a good way to develop his character while not neccesary chaging his personality, but I guess the main issue would be to convice such anti social elder vampire like him to actually hang out with a group of people on a long term form just because he likes them.It would be funny if Nahiri actually gets a little jelouse of such development ala "why couldnt you be like that with me, asshole?" But I guess that such set up would distract from whatever bigger story arc they want to push now, specially with Bolas free again.
>>97659161Sorin cares about order and balances on a macro level, he understand that unbound consumption, destruction and evil will just create unneccessry death and empty planes, so he strives to mantain order and stop big ass catastrophes, but he doesnt really like people, I would say he is like someone watching a garden, he likes watching a living and well grown garden that maybe even has some animals on it, like birds and small mammals, but hates actually interacting with it, he just wants to observe the birds flying, the flowers, maybe a small mouse running from one side to the other, but if you tell him to go out, take a stroll on the garden he likes soo much and he will look at you with disgust.
>>97659768What about thunder junction?, actually wouldnt surprise me if Innistrad natives become one of the most common people there, even the fucking gitrog monster went there.
>>97659326I wonder if it is because he is a pre mending walker, he created Avancyn by basically connecting to Innistrad white mana leylines and forged one of the steongest angels ever, so strong that even when mad and losing power, was still strong enough to stop Emrakul from entering Innistrad, unlike Bolas, he seemed not that obessed with restoring his previous power so most likely he got nerfed and didnt care, so hasnt realize how weak he has become? Or is just that arrogant that he thinks he is skilled enough to still overpower others while his magic has weaken and he hasnt done anything to buff himself since then.
>>97659431Eh, with how they have been glossing over the impact of the phyrexian invasion in some planes, I doubt they would do something that cool.
>>97659896I mean that block ended with the Baron finding an interplanar portal, I'm pretty sure he's fucked off from Ulgrotha. Which depending on who he left behind could be way better or way worse for the plane.
>>97660211There's like 3 sets about the impact of Omenpaths at this point so I think it's plausible
>>97659768Really hope to see Duskmourn revisited. The setting and creature feature angle both appeal to me, but I felt like something was missing. Continued development might help.
>>97661768My only real complaint with Duskmourn was that the Survivors looked too clean. If they looked like, say, Ash by the end of an Evil Dead movie I'd be entirely satisfied with the plane.But characters always looking prim and proper even in circumstances where that makes no sense is a recurring issue with WotC's art in general, so...
>>97661799Yeah the survivors looking like extras from Degrassi High and using Ghostbuster gizmos didn't really work for me either. I get what kind of aesthetic the team was going for, and I guess they sort of pulled it off, but it's not what I wanted to see.I think it was a missed opportunity to not lean more into the fact that the plane's technology seems to have run on summoned spirits. There's potential for more depictions of techno-horror when every device carried by the Survivors is haunted.
>>97661799The survivors look like they are from earlier in the houses consumption of the plane. Really Duskmourn needed to be a pair of sets, one in the far past with the 80s camp and Valv starting to consume Everytown, USA; and the other in the present with primarily monsters and cultists with the survivors looking like escape from new york extras.
>>97661799The survivors are indeed a weak link in the set's art direction.>>97661799>the plane's technology seems to have run on summoned spiritsWas that in a story? I can't see it in the art design.
>>97662635It was more on the plane/setting explanation, they would summon spirits and demons and trap them into devices as power sources, someone tried to summon Valgavoth, but he was too strong and the summoner couldnt control him, so instead he sealed him into his house and then fled the house, where Valgavoth remais trapped to this day, but that doesnt matter by now. They said that with such rampant summoning of demons, it was a matter of time, no if, until a strong ass demon like Valgavoth destroyed the plane
>>97663027>they would summon spirits and demons and trap them into devices as power sourcesThat's cool, but the illustrations of the tech and the demons don't get it across at all. If that concept was in the art direction then it was fumbled badly.
>>97664302
>>97657553Where's that image comparing my disgust to the size of the sun or whatever? I think that fits.
>>97665435>Glimmer>Little spirits borns out of the resilient hope and good feelings people have on duskmourn>Exist as some form of natural resistance against Valgavoth>Glimmer, like the Beasties, want to help the humans to survive>Lets trap them and use them as batteriesYou know what, maybe the humans on duskmourn do deserve their fate.
Any idea of what the deal is with Liliana's doppelganger?
>>97666369Planar Chaos 2
>>97666604>Garruk chokeslamming himself now to get around whatever shit was the problem chokeslamming lili
>>97666604Can we expect something more permanent from this? Like actually having some of the alternate version people remain in the setting instead of just vanishing away
>>97667505Expect a new Jace.
>>97667505Hope they do not limit it to post mending stuff only and we get some alternate versions of old lore characters, like a Mishra if he became planeswalker instead of his brother or a phyrexianised Dominaria if they have lost to the invasion?
>>97657479I really like eldritch moon and its lead up.
>>97667838It's definitely the best part of the gatewatch stories.
>>97656953Is that Glissa?
>>97667771Maybe a new "bolas", what if the super evil dragon was another elder dragon.
>>97667771>New Serra, one that didnt have her plane destroyed but had to resort to black mana to save it>Pure Mirrodin stuff, like that darksteel angel they teased>Kamahl but instead of a barbarian turned druid, a wizard turned cleric>Shard colored volvers>Golgari lich Niv Mizzet that becomes the new guildmaster after the guild was almlst erradicated during the invasion>The shields of X and Y>A white/red no crazy Avancyn
>>97667552Current Jace is basically a villain now, what else can they to him? A black (mana color no dude) that is a hero, and actually a likeable person
>>97668079>Bolas mentionedI guess now is as good a time as ever to ramble about the gay Bolas story again. I really can't stress enough how much of a view it gave me into how much Magic's story could be even without erasing past material, as long as the story is willing to challenge the characters and acknowledge traits as flaws.I went back to compare moments of the official Bolas stories to what appeared in the fanfiction, and they genuinely felt like moments that were reframed instead of retconned (as WotC often does). Bolas nearly starving to death because he was refusing to eat wasn't him having planet-sized ego the moment he was born, it was him trying to give his share to Ugin since he knew they were both starving. Bolas didn't raze a village because that's something he was always planning to do and needed an excuse, he was genuinely pissed that they backstabbed Ugin and poisoned him despite Ugin always being the one defending them (honestly I'm surprised WotC thought Ugin seemed in the right here even in the base story).The combat felt like it was fantastically written too, mostly because it felt like a real back-and-forth between characters rather than setup for a villain to job to something stupid (Jin and the banana peel). Ugin sees Bolas blustering while firing off far weaker attacks than he's capable of. Ugin assumes it's Bolas being arrogant "as he always has", but the hidden reality is that Bolas isn't trying to kill Ugin, but he's afraid of voicing that even as they're fighting because it might make him seem weak (the one thing he never wanted Ugin to see him as). It's all a display because at this point he feels he can't voice his true thoughts openly, because Ugin has already decided he's irredeemable.This got me to genuinely sympathize with Bolas, whose official character is "he is an asshole." It makes me wonder what potential Magic has if it actually followed up this way with its main characters like Jace, Ajani, or even fire lesbian.
>>97666369It's Strixhaven, who cares
>>97668245He's gonna be a fire mage because red is the most popular color now.
>>97656953Justice for the Viashino and every other Magic original race given the shaft by MaRo's retarded tribe autism.
>>97669366>expanding the usability of cards and curbing type bloat is bad because uhhhhhhto this day I've yet to receive a reason cephalids and viashino should be treated any differently from leonin and aven.
Black-aligned Dominarian planeswalker ladies do something for me.
>>97669498if they give Dihada another card that's as busted as Binder of Wills I will buy 30 boxes of whatever set it's on in celebrationI fucking love Geyadrone Dihada
>>97669498At least 2/3 are wrinkly old hags pretending to be young girls.
>>97669566If they look hot then they are hot. I don't care if Dihada is 10.000 years old she's a shapeshifter. Whatever she wants to look like that's what she is.
>>97669566So is Eriette but I can live with that.
>>97666369I'm guessing it's to do with the Raven Man.
>>97669498
>>97669693On that note, it just hit me that relatively few planeswalkers have kids. Ones they made themselves. Even Tamiyo's kids were adopted.
>>97669397but new one off never to be supported again bloat tribes are alright, of course
>>97669998Yes, detectives were a mandatory tribe.
>>97670023You know what dissapoint me the most about that, no real assassin support on that set, we got an assassin commander, but like assassin support as tribal, nothing else
>>97656953Not that I care about MtG much anymore (besides art sometimes) but some lore was ok.Magus of Library is still gone, but his mega archive of lore books and other stuff is still here.https://mega.nz/folder/WfhhzSxT#IZUbBarxAZUWOB-KKzrQWg
>>97670679Also, MTG has kind of gotten to shit when it started to do theme park planes. Like notGothic horror plane, notJapan plane. Those planes feel less real than Dominaria. I am not even going to bother talking about UB stuff.
>>97669397>>expanding the usability of cardsNever happened, there is no meaningful support for Lizards. If "expanding usability" was the intent, they would have been moved into Dragon as with Dragonborn.> and curbing type bloatNever happened, Viashino was removed to make way for Time Lord, Astartes, Jackal, Fox, Dog, Wolf and Werewolf. >to this day I've yet to receive a reason cephalids and viashino should be treated any differently from leonin and aven.Indeed, Aven and Cat-Warrior should be distinct creature types as well, along with Rhox, Loxodon, and so forth. To deny this is to admit that Human, Ape and Monkey should all be rolled together. Or to simply admit that you have no respect for MtG's history or lore, which puts you in the esteemed company of MaRo, at least.
>>97670697>notJapan planeBut Kamigawa is awesome.
>>97670706>there is no meaningful support for Lizards.There is a lot of generic tribal support cards that just have you choose a creature type, which benefit from all your creatures sharing a type.Granted, I don't think there's enough tgematic similarities between lizard-men and regular old lizards that you'd want to include both in a lizard tribal deck (or why you'd even want to make a lizard tribal deck), but doing stuff like combining all the humanoid snake creatures under one type instead of some being naga, others lamia, and some just snakes does make sense and makes deck building easier.Pretty sure Viashino were changed just to be consistent with the way later animal-people cards work, where unless they're based on some well established fantasy or mythological archetype (like merfolk being merfolk instead of fish humans) they just use the corresponding animal type.
>>97656953I've been trying to cook some RPG setting out of EoE, and I genuinely think that the worldbuilding material they provided is solid. Pretty much a 1:1 port with Starfinder, except with lore that for now makes some sense and doesn't include having to have aztecs cohabiting with Moby Dick : The Space Opera.I've been slowly been trying to write material for the astral bodies of the Sothera system, and my main issue is finding a way to have travel via ship not crush distances to the point that locations do not feel separated from one another. It's something I'm already not great at when horses are the fastest mode of transportation, so I have no idea how I'd handle it.
>>976707061. Bloomburrow had Lizard support, and they clearly intend to make more. In addition to this, there are many generic Tribe-matters cards (such as Morophon).2. Viashino not being dragons is important. They are often Dragon support, and not being dragons themselves is key to this role. Dragon anthems and payoffs are often more cheap then what any other tribe would get, because you're not expected to have more then one or two dragons in the table at the same time. Dracogenesis is 6RR, but the Zombie version of it is 5U, because "all your [tribe] spells are free" is much more impactful with individual Dragons then Zombies.3. The UB type bloat is a mistake, yes, and clearly the result of corporate mandates. You know full well how anal GW is with people using the right name for their toys, and Time Lord introduced rules problems because BBC did not accept them doing Time-Lord. And there is a signfiicant difference between one-off cards made for a specific joke, like Jackals, and having broad swathes of the game divided for no reason. Also, Werewolves ARE their own tribe since Innistrad 1 and have never synergized with either Dog or Wolf; they are "the transform DFC tribe" and do in fact warrant their own separate focus. 4. Why the hell is Dog a bad tribe? What was the point of having Hound and Dog as two separate groups? It didn't make any sense. Hounds are dogs.5. You seem to be the one that has no respect for Magic's history. Aven and cat-warriors have always been treated as birds and cats, for good reason. Unless there is actual mythological basis for them being a separate thing, like Goblins ansd Merfolk, or they are an MTG original that doesn't map to anything like Lhurgoyf or Kavu, they are essentially just [animal]-men, and should be treated as such. Humans are not, in fact, monkeys, just part of a group. We don't get separate tribes for pigeons and chickens.
Why is he called Ajani Goldmane when his mane is clearly white, not gold?
I can fix her.
>>97670697OG Kamigawa was awesome lore and art wise.
>>97671803
>>97670697I think the problem with modern set writing is less having planes based on real-world mythology and stories (that's been something they've been doing for ages: literally the first set after alpha/beta/unlimited was based on Arabian mythology, and OG Kamigawa came right after the Mirrodin block, which is quite a long time ago), and more the worldbuilding, or lack thereof.Like, with Kamigawa and Innistrad the writers clearly put thought into how the plane works, what factions exist there and how they interact with each other, and how it fits into the cosmology of MtG. Meanwhile, Thunder Junction is literally "it's the cowboy hat plane. Here's a bunch of established characters all wearing cowboy hats". Or how Duskmourne has some interesting ideas in the setting details, like how all the technology in the plane is actually supposed to be powered by bound demons, none of that got reflected in the art direction which, instead of asking "how would a slasher film work in the Magic universe?" just copied the visuals of 1980s slasher films with no thought on how they fit in a fantasy setting.
What's her endgame?
>>97670844>There is a lot of generic tribal support cards that just have you choose a creature type, which benefit from all your creatures sharing a type.Then that works on Viashino too.>muh bloomburrowSorry anon, your furry plane and the incredibly tepid "lizard support" it introduces does not obviate actual Magic tribes from existing.>2. Viashino not being dragons is important.Good, then they don't have to be Lizards either. Indeed, it allows you to push the Bloomburrow furry lizards further if you don't have to account for old cards like Zirilan of the Scale.>3. The UB type bloat is a mistake, yes, and clearly the result of corporate mandates.And yet here you are ardently defending it.>4. Why the hell is Dog a bad tribe? Hound was the standard for all dog type creatures, Dog was introduced as a retcon later to make it more marketable to Reddit.>5. You seem to be the one that has no respect for Magic's history.Anon, you don't even KNOW Magic's history, or Viashino's significance to it. Come back when you've read Prodigal Sorcerer, and can think of a better defense for your position than "pigeons and chickens aren't separate tribes" when dogs, foxes, jackals and wolves are and you've actively defended that.
>>97671803Genuinely: What's the appeal?
>>97672298She has a endgame?
>>97672364You're the one defending a change that literally does nothing good but bloat the game. What is actually gained by having Viashino, who are lizardmen, not synergize with the cards meant to benefit Lizards? This is an obvious consistency change.Again, Cat-men are Cats, and the game has always been better for it. Aven are Birds, and the game has always been better for it. Why on earth would you want to errata a bunch of cards to be WORSE and LESS PLAYABLE by making them nonsynergistic with a bunch of other tribal payoffs, as opposed to doing the exact opposite and raising their playability?
>>97673679>>97672364Saying this again: This was a consistency change. The game was divided between "useless hyper specific creature type that had no reason to not be folded into another" and "creature type that made sense." The UB bloat that came later was bad, but that doesn't fucking mean the bloat REMOVING errata was. That's the exact opposite.To be consistent, they changed the two sides of the game to be the same. And I would much rather have the "wider creature type that makes sense" side be the standard, as opposed to errataing a bunch of cards to be Aven and others to be Birds and others to be Cats and others to be Leonin, a change that would worsen the playability of every single card involved for no gain whatsoever aside from appeasing 1-3 lorefags who don't barely play the game.
>>97673727>>97673679>>97672364It's genuinely hard to think of a more wrong opinion on mtg than being mad about an objectively good change such as this one.The argument it is an attack on magic's lore or worldbuilding is ridiculous. They are literally still cephalids half of them have 'cephalid' in the card name still. Leonin have been cats for 20 goddamn years. There is so much shit to complain about in this game and yet you choose to pick the ONE change that has literally no downsides whatsoever and only makes the cards more playable and consistent overall.This shit pisses me off. Mark Rosewater can continue spouting a billion number of PR lies for all I care, he's earned heaven by talking to a million people telling him that not having the word cephalid printed on the type line is the death of magic the gathering and never once telling them to kill themselves
>>97672364nta, but I do personally prefer mechanical condensation where possible. Not only does it reduce game complexity (hey asshole remember what the properties of this face-down creature are), but I also prefer it when more cards are able to interact with each other. More enchantments should use quest counters as their vanity counter. More artifacts should use charge counters. We should have fewer blatant one-off mechanics and more usage of mainstays. I know the meme is "all mechanics are kicker and horsemanship" but genuinely I hate every time there's some new dogshit mechanic like Outlaws that's clearly never coming back unless WotC does another set explicitly in that plane. Mark thinks it's cute, I think it's annoying.
>>97674264Outlaw was the exact opposite of that, though. It's just batching a bunch of creature types, so it's inerently forwards and backwards compatible with all of these types.
>>97674975They're never going to reuse the term "outlaw" just like they're never going to reuse "Start Your Engines".
>>97674976Well yes but every outlaw card is going to work just fine if you put it on a Rogue or Assassin or Pirate deck, whenever they decide it's time for the respective creature type to get more synergy pieces. That's what makes it a good mechanic, it's really just a batch.Like, Magic has been introducing new mechanics every set for quite a while, but while something like manifest dread is unlikely to return unless Duskmourn does, it can still interact with a lot of old and new cards, because a lot of synergy pieces care about 'face down creatures' as opposed to any specific keyboard which means there's some inbuilt level of long-term compatibility between morph/manifest, cloak/disguise, manifest dread, and whatever the next face-down card mechanic is. Meanwhile with Speed/Start Your Engines if they don't print more shit for this exact keyword you're just fucked trying to make a speed deck.
>>97675010That actually ties into an issue that I brought up. The gap between morph/manifest/cloak/face-down where this is all multiple mechanics in the same nebulous design space but they all function differently because "fuck you". Most cards in this design space also have zero synergistic overlap.
>>97675136>Most cards in this design space also have zero synergistic overlap.No? That's just not true. Any and all cards that care about morph care about "cards being face down." When I put creatures into the battlefield with Missy they will work with Yarus, Roar of the Old Gods just fine. If I turn Ainok Survivalist face up with Expose the Culprit it still works just fine. Any Megamorph synergy piece will inerently function with Manifest or Manifest Dread or Cybermen or whatever the next face down mechanic is, because all face down mechanics care about "cards being face down" rather then "this card was morphed."
>>97675220Like, if I get a Hooded Hydra from Hauntwoods Shrieker's attack trigger, regardless of how I turn it face up, it works, because it doesn't care about its morph cost being paid, bur rather it being turned face up. They are inerently synergistic mechanics.
>>97675220A card's presence goes beyond the card itself (something WotC has seemingly forgotten). Introducing a similar but different keyword has a tendency to invalidate past support even when it's not strong enough to actually merit incompatibility. Planeswalkers as a card type still experience this where there was comprehensive functional errata to almost all red removal to work on them, and planeswalker spot removal is still broadly the least-supported (barring battles).
>>97668135>Pure Mirrodin stuff, like that darksteel angel they teasedI will never forgive wotc for having the phyrexians win. It shouldn't have gone down the way it did.
>>97672270I remember the initial reaction on here to Kaldheim, the fa/tg/uys were savage.
>>97674976I can see outlaws and party be used on the same set, the good thing about outlaws, is that is a composite "tribe", sonis not limited as either a niche race like kithkin. Tribal sets are popular and quite frequent, so a set that focus on "jobs" can happen any time, the main issue of outlaws is that is limited in term of flavor, but I can see it use on a new cappenna set, or the outlaws being the black/red resistance factions against a white faction tyranny that branded all resistance outlaws.
>>97675406I am fine with new phyrexia, what I dislike is that after all that, after march of the machine, Mirrodin is gone, the survivors are like 1 single digit population, Kharn lost his sparks, so I we will never see a world like mirrodin or even a mirrodin town on some plane like thunder junction where the survivors could have move, no more Myrs, no more vulshoks or metalic leonins, no more 5 sun.
>>97672298getting gibs for her shithole village/plane
>>97675271>Barrin battlesHonestly sad those didnt work out, I even use one, the one that flips into ephara on my duskmourn esper precon.
>>97675406>>97675663Who knows, maybe they will revive mirrodin with this planar chaos/timeshift they are teasing, depending on how big it is, a whole alternate plane could be pulled out and remain once they stabilize the timestream, maybe we could even see phyrexians puriefied versions of phyrexians.
>>97672298Whatever she wants it to be. That's kind of the basic premise of the character.
>>97675406Look I like artifacts as just as the next guy but if you look me in the eye and say "Mirrodin or New Phyrexia" I'm going to fucking vote New Phyrexia. Aesthetically, mechanically, there is not a single department where I would consider Mirrodin as interesting as New Phyrexia, nevermind more.
>>97675844>MechanicallyReally? No affinity for artifacts? Modular? No myrs?
>>97672298>>97675796>Planeswalker that learned magic all about seeing fate and even manipulating it.>Is the youngest walker but said to be onenof the strongest already>Hasnt done jack shit on the story>Desparked now>Show up on duskmourn justnto give the raiding party a one time re-do charm>Fucks off after thatThis is a case of writers making a too powerful character but unablento use them either as hero or villain because they would be too strong
Do you guys think Thalia is a virgin?I really hope so....
>>97675930Innistrad religion doesnt seem to care about virginity, and she is under a lot of stress as one of the few veterans of Innistrad multiple apocalypses and heronof himanity, your best hope is that she is lesbians and fucks young female cathars or angels.
>>97675904>affinity for artifactsA firing squad is all that affinity for artifacts deserves.>ModularAdmittedly fairly interesting.>myrsI have never been able to give a shit about Myr. Cute design but that's literally all they have. As a tribe they're thopters but worse.
>>97675949I really hope she doesn't get fucked at all. At least not until she is married.
>>97675930There's no way no one tapped that tight 2/1 ass
>>97676096But she is the one tapping everyone else.
>>97676022>MarriedIf she ever marries, it will be just to lose her husband and force her into a revenge driven quest.
>>97676172I hope not. I wish I could be there for her to help her pick up the pieces.
>>97675930No. She's like 30 years old by this point. She might have been one by original Innistrad block but no way she is one now.
>>97676172Or she marries a vampire/werewolf/other creature of the night.
>>97676172>inb4 she marries Geralf>inb4 Geralf fucking dies>inb4 Gisa reanimates him>inb4 Thalia has a problem with this
>>97676353Geralt would never let Gisa reanimate him. You bet your ass that if he ever dies he's getting his body mailed to Ludevic so he can be brought back by someone who knows what the fuck they're doing, not his pleb ghoulcaller sister who just spams bottom of the barrel zombie hordes.
>>97676364>inb4 she marries Ludevic>inb4 Ludevic fucking dies>inb4 Geralf reanimates him>inb4 Thalia has a problem with this
>>97676389>Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, the person whose sole motivation is "get all of those freaks out of my country">ever getting married to the guy whose sole motivation is making as many freaks he can and throwing them at her country
>The necro-alchemist Ludevic had grown ill. Obsessed with making his "final creation," Ludevic returned to the lab. He combined flesh, metal, and pieces from four different brains into a body unlike any Innistrad had ever seen (which is impressive considering the Eldrazi were just here). Calling his creation "Olag," Ludevic activated his machines and breathed life into the creature.>Cackling madly, Ludevic ordered Olag to go out into the world and maim, kill, and destroy. "But why?" asked Olag, their voice mellifluous and innocent. Ludevic was disgusted. He did not create this creature to be kind. Olag remains locked away beneath the laboratory until Ludevic figures out how to fix them. Although locked away, Olag is not alone. They have been receiving visits from a mysterious figure who has promised them their freedom very, very soon.
>InnistradHAAARK! HARK KROTHUSS, HARK! BELLOW, BID OUR FATHER THE KRAKEN RISE FROM THE DEPTHS FULL FOUL IN HIS FURY!
>>97676408She can fix him.
>>97676466uhhhh source?
>>97676341I see a werewolf to be the most possible one, they can try to control the curse and try to live as normal humans in hiding, but is a losing battle, eventually the beast gets out and the farce goes down
>>97676460I love how the creature isn't even being kind or raising any moral point. It's just going "but why tho"
>>97676364Geraf has 2 options if he dies, number one is to rig his body with some incendesary device meant to burn his body the moment his heart stops to dent his sister from ever raising him as undead, or feeling his inpending death, start preparations to create a device, while also implating himself with whatever neccesary, that he can ask someone he trust, either a minion or actually Thalianin this fantastical scenario, where they just need to put his body on a table press a button and a he will be revived as a Skaab.Surprise thrid option he dies, Gisa raise his souless body as a zombie, but Geralf becomes a gheist, now looking for some promising sticher to teach them what he knows, and hopefuly, make them Gisa new archenemy.
>>97676489>>97676460>Create a monster with 4 brains>Gets angry when it ask questionsLmao
>>97676389Isnt ludevic like, a really old guy? I dont know how old Thalia is, but she is defitnely a whole generation younger than him.
>>97676341Didnt Avancyn tame werewolfs when she cameback? What happen with those?
>>97676573That went offline with her death.
>>97676630Offline as in the werewolf died as well or went feral again?
>>97676656The latter.
>>97676656All feral again. Emrakul was also driving them extra crazy and now that she's in the moon that's permanent.
>>97676687Somehow, I didnt need to open the image to know what it was refering to.
>>97676687Ever since this card I've thought Jace looks like Ezra Miller and that makes me not like him.
What did you guys think about the werefoxes on Eldraine?
>>97676740I just remember one of them being lesbian.
>>97676763Well it is nuMagic so you'll just have to disregard the eventual lesbianism.
https://vocaroo.com/1ddcdWq8OGQuYou should disregard it.
>>97676715Same but Oko
>>97676947But I don't mind the eventual lesbianism.
Why did they stop publishing artbooks? I think the last one was made for War of the Spark over five years ago.
>>97677268because the "art" has been shit and no1 bought the last ones
>>97677268Because nobody was buying them.
>>97676480Miéville, C. Kraken. (Macmillan Publishers, 2010).
>>97675918Not everyone's gonna be Jace, it's fine for characters to drift in and out of the story between sets.
>>97676338How? She's not married. I don't want to imagine Thalia fornicating. She's not like that.
I like merfolk. Which plane has the best merfolk?
>>97659326>>Nahiri stomped half the vampires on the vampire planeHonestly that's underselling how much shit she got done on Innistrad. She was there for weeks, maybe months. In that time she essentially deleted a preeminent vampire bloodline, jumpstarted several new cults in the human population, rerouted the plane's leylines, drove some three fourths of the angelic hosts insane, and lured in an eldrazi titan from across the multiverse. This was an existential crisis, it took her basically no time at all to put it together, it would seemingly have been unfixable by any power local to the plane, and even with the worst outcomes averted the plane appears to be irreversibly fucked for the rest of time.
>>97678056I simply don't buy that an attractive woman in a position of power and influence who's nearing thirty hasn't had at least a fling once
>>97678284Don't forget that Sorin marshalled the other major vampire bloodline plus any minor ones it controlled against her and she singlehandedly beat his and all of the army's asses, encased Sorin in a stone prison that he couldn't planeswalk out of without assistance, and then simply left laughing. Nahiri is simply built different.
>>97678324>>97678284Nahiri is just what happens when you have an immortal planeswalker who is actually continuously improving on their abilities. She was the head of a monastery continuously teaching people who to defend Zendikar until she took her nap. It didn't matter that she lost the immortality and vast mana reserves of being an oldwalker, she still had hundreds if not thousands of years of knowledge in lithomancy.I'm pretty sure that if Urza was alive, he'd be the exact same. He wouldn't care that he has less raw power to work with, that was never what made him dangerous. He'd still be rolling over planes with robot dragons.
>>97678363Urza would have nuked Mirrodin's core the second New Phyrexia reared its head, resulting in half the plane turning into a crater. I miss him so much.
>>97678363She slept through most of the time between imprisoning the eldrazi and being imprisoned in the helvault. But even before then she made the hedron network that covers all of Zendikar. She's built different. It's a Zendikar thing. Kiora casually teleports kaiju across the multiverse and Nissa spams elementals anywhere she goes.
>>97677268Speaking of, does anyone have the Innistrad one?
Nissa is able to talk (sometimes to her detriment) to entire planes via their worldsoul. And pop out elementals. How come none of the Kamigawa planeswalkers could create kami?
>>97677755She has barely appeared in any story despite having a card for years
>>97678410Mana in most planes is basically dormant compared to Zendikar, living in a place like that and all due the plane adaptating to deal with a depredator, Zendikar natives are just different.
>>97678378There was a weight to Urza and his gathered titans that Jace and his Gatewatch never matched.
>>97673045Will and Rowan are set up as the latest sibling rivalry in the tradition of Urza and Mishra, and Ugin and Nicol Bolas. And her "Foolish brother, you lack the power to do what's necessary" motivation is some straight up Vergil shit.
>>97678681It's like she's the sibling with a penis.
>>97676466Forever mad that the dark god of the sea that Stromkirk found was just some jobber kraken. I was so hyped up for him to be leading a cult of deep ones/gill men when shadows over innistrad was first revealed and then wotc came in made my waifu get nothing personal'd by her dad and then more fucking eldrazi bullshit. Fuck you wotc and everyone who made the gaywatch stories.
>>97678410>Nissa spa->gets out druided by a grixis dragon who only used one hand and didn't even stop pinballing gideon to do so
>>97678949That grixis dragon is now taking it up the butt nightly from Tron's new 3-drop so it balanced out.
>>97678772God I wish.
>>97678574I want a black Zendikar walker, imagine the shit they would do>Connect to each plane spirit realm to command armies of ghost or just talk with the dead and secure important information, even ancient death people on planes with little ghost activity>Being a ghost that is puppeting its own dead body and still retain their spark despise technically being death but also alive
>>97678324IIRC Sorin and Nahiri had a teacher and student relationship due Nahiri first planeswalking into Sorin when her spark ignited and Sorin for some reason deciding to mentor this young walker at the time, whatever he taught her, she probably use it against him.
>>97678949>Out druidedDoes it count as druidism when he killed the soul of the world to take over?
>>97678681That makes it sound like they will be relevant to a mayor story arc, but they havent appeared since wilds of eldraine, at least Eriette appeared shortly on thunder junction and got a new card with an extra color too. Will is probably busy being king and Rowan, who the fuck knows what she is doing now, she cant planeswalk now so she either is hiding on eldraine, probably followed Kellan into some omenpath, or is being fucked by the fae in exchange of some weapon or something.
>>97678324Will someone at WotC give Sorin a win for once? He failed at resealing the eldrazi at Zendikar, I know that was more of Nissa fault, but he still failed his objective; he actually never saved Avacyn from the helvaut because Tilbalt of all people distracted him, he didnt save Ugin on Tarkir that was Sarkhan; Nahiri basically destroyed everything he could have cared about on Innistrad, his clan, his home, humillated him, and drive his reputation among the surviving vampires to the dirt as possible authority figure and drive what was the closest thing he had to a daughter mad to the point he had to kill her and then watch his homeplane get ravaged by Emrakul and most recently, his one rival vampire lord abduct the only family member he still has and gives a fuck about to a elaborate ploy to become the vampire queen and gets called out by everyone involved for being an asshole all the time when he tries to stop it.He really needs a win.
>>97678531>WorldsoulThis remind me, for such a concept, I feel this isnt explored in both the lore and cards enough, we got some "Soul of Xplane" cards on the 2015 set, but those have no lore attached to them, we even have a Soul of New phyrexia, that I would consider big deal regarding the implications, either the Soul of Mirrodin got corrupted, showing how far gone the plane is, or the Soul of Mirrodin died and was replaced by New Phyrexia due how the plane has changed but we dont know nothing. Kyoudai, Soul of Kamigawa is the only one I can think of with a clear role and place on the setting.
>>97676715>From the founder of the gatewatch to our newest villainWhat I love about Jace becoming the bad guy is that it shows how blue can be evil despise, in theory, always striving to achieve common good and what I mean is that most blue villain are just arrogant assholes that just want to dominate or simple too "FOR SCIENCE!" Kind of people, too engrossed in their own curiosity and delusions to consider how it affects others, but Jace right now he wants to achieve something he truly considers for the greater good but has conviced himself thst everyone else is too stupid to understand the grandiose of his plan, not even his gorgon wife.
>>97678297Maybe. I just really hate to think of another man cumming inside of her.
>real vorthos hoursgrim
>Make comment about Innistrad having other continents and how things like Lycantrophy could be different in those places>Make comment about how people from the main land go to other continents from time to time-On Return->Yo, those nigga witches were here all along>Wiccas stronk>Wiccas able to dominate werewolfs and vampires! But when Avacyn vanished somehow they didn't lift a finger!
>>97679047WotC would never make that story canon because troons wouldn't actually read it. They would just see that they made Bolas gay and flood social media about how it's problematic to associate being evil with being gay despite it being more about how Ugin's character flaws turning Bolas into a villain.
>>97679100>He really needs a win.He's a more fun character when he's ineffectual and aurafarming.
>>97679320Shut up, Spike.
>>97678949Nicol Bolas is also built different to be fair. Pretty sure that if you took Newwalker Bolas and put him next to the Nine Titans he'd not be out of place.
>>97678648There really was not. It was just Urza and maybe Freyalise and Bo Levar. The Nine Titans look cool until you realize 4 of them died like chumps immediately and the other 2 didn't do anything at all. Their DEBUT in Phyrexia ends with all of them killing each other for no reason then being effortlessly tossed out by Yawgmoth. Daria and Kristina were put there for literal in universe nepotism and contributed nothing, Tevesh betrayed everyone for no gain immediately, and Urza just let him do that to justify using the soulbombs (?????) which didn't work anyway because Urza just... gave up on the goal he spent millennia working towards, the goal that he sacrificed everyone he ever cared about, at the absolute last minute. The Nine Titans were a complete disaster in every possible level.
>>97680008Even post-Mending he's still an elder dragon, which already makes him an ancient and extremely powerful being by itself, with millenias worth of magical study on top of that. The Mending is only a downgrade because he went from a literal god to "just" an immensely powerful and near-immortal being. He'd probably be a lot more successful, not to mention happier, if he realized that even with his drop in power he's still most likely the strongest person in the room at any given time, and spending all your time scheming to gain more power when you're already absurdly powerful is just a waste of time.
>>97680088Kind of the trapping of being a power hungry bad guy, is that no power is enough, Bolas could have just fuck off to amonkhet, lived there as their god pharaoh, and even cause wars and corrupt and raise gods for shit and giggle, but one, he would get bored eventually and two the mere idea that, somewhere, someone in the multiverse is stronger than him and could come any day to steal his shit is somethings that would haunt Bolas no matter what.
>>97678949If anything that just helps make the case, no? In order to no-sell this one person in that battle, the entire plane of existence they were fighting on had had to be metaphysically enthralled beforehand.
>>97659896>Grixis is now part of a bigger planeIIRC that didn't end up being so much of a positive. Instead of moderating Grixis it just made all its locals start raiding and murdering across the rest of Alara. The place didn't get better, it just made everyplace else suck more.
>>97680401This is a large part of why I liked how the gay Bolas fic characterized him. It didn't shy away from the fact that Bolas was insecure as hell owing to the fact he and Ugin were the weakest among the elder dragons, and Ugin ended up inadvertently convincing Bolas that he never even deserved to be born which led to Bolas having a huge chip on his shoulder stemming from how he just wanted to feel worthy of Ugin's recognition.
>>97680578Technically Grixis got slightly better because it's no longer in danger of dying out completely due to lack of mana associated with life leaving it in a downward spiral. Now they can just raid their neighbors for resources. Grixis is probably the single worst place to live, though. At least with (New) Phyrexia, it's a great place if you happen to be a Phyrexian. It would suck for everybody else, but everything there is just the way the Phyrexians like it. Meanwhile, not even the natives of Grixis want to actually be on Grixis.
>>97680617In most planes that suck there's usually an elite living it up at the expense of everyone else, and if you happen to be a member of that elite it's quite good.In Grixis being a top tier necromancer just means you get to starve slightly less.
>>97680088>spending all your time scheming to gain more power when you're already absurdly powerful is just a waste of time.What do you suggest he take up knitting? Nigga is a dragon, he inherently has to dominate and reinforce his place on top of the pecking order.
>>97680617>>97680747The problem with Alara is that when the shards reunited, instead of bits lf everything appearing here and there, creating a doted landscape of all the shards that would delute every shard influence, biomes and mana, it was more like reasembling a pizza, and the grixis slice is already rotting cheese and pepperoni that will only spread its rotting and is also a literally a shard that would get stronger by having new life to consume on, the zombie horde will grow stronger from just regular humanoids to rank and file to whatever beast jund and naya could offer, and something that Grixis has is the smarts to abuse the situation, the necromancers and demons are probably smart enough to focus on Jund and Naya, 2 planes were is mostly dumb animals and at best tribal people to raid, easy preys for death magics with no smarts to raise protective spells, who cares if jund sends a dragon that dies to doom blade and is then raised as a zombie, Naya can send its behemots to choke on zombie hordes and then be use as a zombie carrier that breaks walls, also the fact that those places arent accostumed to demons makes them fools to their trickery and insidious plans, Bant and Esper are probably the 2 shards that could fight against Grixis on a military level and even then, they are soo accostumed to a relative peaceful lives that the grixis warmongering demons and necromancers are probably too much of shock to them, their best hope would be to turtle up, and start learning how to counter Grixis darkness.
>>97681306Getting plowed by Ugin would probably use up a lot of his time.
>>97679800Is he really?
>>97681359Kind of, ZEN Sorin was great since he's just bullying Nissa for little to no reason and then she earns it by being a massive retard. Everything else though is just wasting what should be the ass kicker out of the non-dragon walkers.
>>97681404Sorin wasn't even all that important in the sealing of the Eldrazi. Nahiri can also lure them wherever and Ugin canonically didn't learn anything from him, probably because he was brooding in the corner while Nahiri and Ugin actually did all the work of realigining the leylines and building a billion hedrons to actually seal the Eldrazi. Sorin's character has always been that of a vagabond hedonist who vaguely cares about his plane at best.
>>97681428IIRC he was there to cast debuffs on the eldrazi so they wouldn't overwhelm the walkers partway through the sealing process. Basically he was there as extra muscle.
>>97681428What if Nahiri learned how to lure the eldrazi from Sorin?
Vampbashing hours?
>>97681428Sorin had three roles for the Eldrazi trap.1: Sap their energy with vampirism bullshit2: the third and final power source for the hedrons3: maintain the trap because Ugin knew he would be dead and Nahiri in gay baby jail.
>>97681404>then she earns it by being a massive retard.On the one hand, yes, she was very retarded. On the other hand, I also like to think of her big ZEN oopsie as the consequence of Sorin being incredibly bad at talking to girls.And speaking of Nissa, why did she lose her black mana and become mono green?
>>97681486People talking about White Liliana but what we really need is White Sorin
>>97681648>Sorin is a predominantly Romanian masculine name derived from the word soare, which means "sun". It is associated with meanings of warmth, brightness, and radiance, often symbolizing a "sunny" or energetic personality. The name has deep roots in Romanian culture and is sometimes used as a surname.Sorin the Mirthful.
>>97681696Yeah he can get the Crovax treatment in Reality Fracture
>>97681648Sorin is Orzhov so Reverse Sorin would have to be Gruul.
>>97681721I imagined human Sorin never turning into a vampire just a white walker after igniting his spark for whatever reason
>>97681531>And speaking of Nissa, why did she lose her black mana and become mono green? IIRC, it was because she learned black magic when she met Lowryn elves and took up their racism and basically went "yeah fuck all other races specially vampires" and sinfe it was her own racist view that made her cause the oopsie with Sorin and after trying to save her elf village and fail, she dropped black magic as ññpart of trying to be better.
>>97681721>>97681745Gruul Sorin would've become a werewolf.
>>97681745Maybe Reverse Sorin became a werewolf instead of a vampire. His grandpa gave him a magic potion from devil blood instead of angel or something.
>>97681757>Arlinn is a devil-may-care Orzhov vampire leading a revolution against vampire king Tovolar>Sorin is a hedonistic werewolf who kills as he pleases
>>97681757>>97681759>Werewolf Sorin>Vampire ArlinnPrint it
Hivemind
>>97681757>>97681759>>97681765>>97681767POV: You're 5 color Ugin hiring Sorin to help you fight the Eldrazi
Sorin should go Rakdos, add some red to show he isnt in some "greater good" bussiness, he is just chilling now, doing what he please for the fun of it, trying to make friends with whoever can follow his lifestyle, just a guy traveling the multiverse because he can, maybe doing some ruins explorations here and there trying to get fancy artifacts but mostly to have a collection no neccesary because he has a grand plan.
>>97681886>Sorin becomes depressed and develops alcoholism>acquires red
>>97681900>Sorin now in a multiverse quest to look for the west wine>Sampling blood along the way too.
>>97681821Come to think of it we never had a planeswalker who is just a complete wreck. Not like Garruk on his bad days, I just mean someone who clearly can't be trusted around drinks yet is never seen without one, someone who always runs late despite never having a place they have to be.
>>97682046Elspeth with halo.
>>97682046The closest I think it would have been Xenagos as a hedonistic satir that threw parties to mock the gods, but hed had his own big scheme to become a theros god and then he died so unless we get some flashback story where he is just partying before getting the inspiration to ascend, there isnt that many options
>>97682046That's Oko.
