Hey boys, how's it goin? My RPG group picked up Lancer recently as we all really loved the idea of mech combat, so we did some test combats then ran through OSR while our GM threw something together. He came up with a crash landing scenario where we need to slowly explore the world around us as some weird ancient automated planetary defense system mechs came after us that we'd slowly learn about would attack us.All fun stuff. We're having a great time in combat. I have no complaints about the system in combat(except sometimes wordings on exact things are weird, but that's always gonna be a thing). But just in combat. Because everything in this system outside of the combat fucking sucks.The "Narrative Play" parts of this rulebook suck so much ass. Half of it is basically telling the GM that they can't actually *do* anything. Can't tell players to make skill checks, can't do anything. Players don't technically even need to roll to do anything, they just say "Hey, I could use my trigger for this! Can I roll for X?" but nothing's ever stopping them from instead saying "I do X". The rulebook basically says that this is to allow players to willingly fail things, or for things that they want to leave up to chance. Like we're playing fucking FATE or some shit where I have to worry about my real-life "narrative weight" at the table instead of actually managing as a person in this story.I dunno. Just really don't like the non-combat sections of Lancer, it feels incredibly sloppy and completely disconnected from the combat, which is clearly the actual point of the system. I know a clear solution is to basically homebrew the entire non-combat sections of these rules and just ignore the book when it says that the GM can't initiate skill checks, but my DM seems strangely opposed to doing that(even as he outwardly says its a rule in the book he dislikes??).Anyone else who's played Lancer feel the same way?
oh boy, is it time for the billionth lancer sucks thread this week?
>>97671663I can get not wanting to dive straight into homebrewing/house ruling a fresh TTRPG if literally nobody has tried it before and the GM wants to understand clearly what he's dealing with before he starts yanking levers. I prefer to play like 2-3 sessions of a game before beginning that process. Usually any changes I make are because of table conduct like people habitually using phones or not paying attention until their turn comes around and they ask "So what's going on?"I'd recommend stealing a copy of the Field Guide to the Karrakin Trade Baronies; page 84 onwards basically adds non-combat systems to the game. I question the logic behind not including them in the base game but the Karrakin stuff is more social intrigue based so they finally conceded that you needed something out of combat for that.It's still kind of sparse; you roll a d20, 0-9 is a fail, 10-19 is "effective" and 20 is "very effective" with a bunch of narrative "classes" that do various things to the rolls as well as more nebulous concepts like "burdens" for wounds or other negative impacts. Better than nothing but IMO you're either better off eschewing the mechanics for out-of-combat play if it's not a huge draw for your players or just lifting the rules from another TTRPG altogether. But as I said above; your GM might want to see how the game runs by default before messing with stuff.
By what I read, I don't really see the problem. Let me explain.You get into a mech game, so the focus is of course on the mechs. Let's be real, in a lot of mecha shows the characters engage in drama out of the mecha (and often enough, even inside them). That's all well and good if you like it, but you don't really need heavy crunch to do that. Focus on the mecha combat, where it should be, allows you to have the mission being the best part. Everything else is secondary, and in the context of a game night where you want to progress through the mission itself, it makes sense. The way I see it, it can work for the kind of quick plays you often have to deal with when schedules clog up.Of course, if you want to have long campaigns of 6 hours-long sessions, you're going to need more than that. I would unironically use other systems for the out of mecha parts, the system depending on the theme you're going for.
>>97672279I don’t have much to weigh in on, since I fully agree in that OP’s group should probably use a different system for the non-mech combat parts. But that issue is something my own friend who is a mecha fan had expressed issues with regarding most mecha games, that most of the systems out there focus entirely on the mecha themselves and little else, which frustrates him since he wanted a system that also lets him enact the kind of on-foot “behind enemy lines” spy missions also popular in mecha anime. It’s lead him to trying to tinker with other systems to Frankenstein his own solutions. So OP’s issue at least is something I’ve seen firsthand, even if not in Lancer specifically.
>>97672334I'd suggest using cyberpunk 2020, core book is rules-lite enough, and it has enough depth to it that you can feel satisfied with doing things. Also, if you have everyone as squishy humans even small caliber guns can be very dangerous, so you have tension at every possible violent confrontation. Perfect for when you want to sneak on an enemy commander before he rides the mech, but he pulls out a gun.
>>97671663Fuck you, fascist.
>>97671663>Combat is fine.>Narrative stuff is weird.>>97671958 has it right.Give the GM (and yourselves) time to indulge in the actual rules without trying to compare it to other systems that you might be more familiar with, or might handle social checks better.You may find that actually, after a couple sessions, it 'clicks' and just makes sense, as just a very different but technically functional approach.Or, failing that, you can discuss with the table and implement social mechanics homebrew to more accurately match your game expectations. No systems (except GURPS) is perfect after all.
Ayo why play a game about robots that has nothing robot in it lmao.
>>97671663I was soured on Lancer after finding a group for a one mission game in the official discord. I wanted to use my fuckoff big Railgun mech to destroy the space elevator we were tasked to destroy, Despite the fluff saying it has a spaceship artillery gun the GM said I wasn't allowed to use the railgun like that as there was no printed rules saying I could use it like that.
>>97673167mechs aren't robots
>>97672701You almost had it, but it was just a bit too short. A couple more words like incel or small dick comment would've done the trick.
Idk I've dmed a campaign before and it was fun, granted we leaned a lot on comedy. Maybe you'd have more fun if you didn't take yourself so seriously
Ran 2 combats at LL3. Do you guys have an issue with player turns taking an obscenely long time? (Our most experienced player at the table used a Nelson that had like 4 different free moves a turn with traits and systems). To be fair, I wasn’t helping with having to juggle 5 different pdfs of homebrew and reworked NPCs, but I don’t know. Really seemed like an absolute slog.
>>97671663I've ran a lancer campaign and am currently playing one.The non-combat sections I kinda threw out and just did my own thing, using the time for pilot combat sessions, meeting NPCs/groups, etc. In this current game we're doing sort of an FTL kinda thing where we progress on a ship through the map to points of interest, and make the downtime/non-combat sections during the jump before the point (usually when combat starts) and it's been really fun.For lancer I like the groups, mechs, and corporations, but I just changed shit I hated.
>>97671663Do you have nothing better to do than repeat these threads, or is this another attempt at a stealth lancer general?I gave you 7 posts last thread that barely scratched the surface as to how shit the lore and setting is, and that should have been enough to put most people off. Or is this a subtle cry for a continuation?
>>97677506You might as well, it’s not like this board has any better threads to bump off
>>97677506nigga am i supposed to know who you are? i wanted to ask specifically about dealing with the non-combat sections of a game my group has picked up recently.
>>97671958>is a fail, 10-19 is "effective" and 20 is "very effective"Imagine buying a separate book for extra non-combat rules and it's literally just telling you flip a coin. Brutal
>>97672279You don't understand. Mech RPGs cannot be just about mechs, there's needs to be something to put them into perspective, and rules just as extensive for when you're out of the mech. If everyone's in a mech, no one is. Think about it.Let's say instead of mechs, you're giants. Your main enemies are all giants and occasionally humans. You fight in giant sized battlefields, live in giant sized houses, buy giant sized items. It's completely identical to a regular game as humans where occasionally you're fighting hamsters. Same thing for games where you're pirates, or a tank crew. People hyper focus on the sailing or tank part, and completely neglect that you have to land and adventure on shore or leave the tank to fight in foot.
>>97672334The typical solution is to use some rules-light system like Blades in the Dark or Sprawl for pilots given the mech rules are fairly pilot-agnostic so it doesn't matter if the pilot rules are mech-agnostic.
>>97675618Skirmishes are only supposed to last a few turns and be very objective-focused, which usually helps cut down on the bloat if only by keeping decisions focused. I've found it's mostly only an issue at an interesting middle band of experience; if they're completely new they'll just do simple moves and attacks, and if they actually understand their shit and have a build then the best tactical solution is typically fairly straightforward to execute. It's when people have a bunch of knobs to turn but no actual plan that shit gets sluggish.
>>97671663Hot take: Who cares if pilots don't have skills? Most professionals will succeed at a given task given enough time. The only thing this is relevant for is if you get on fights on foot, which in that case yes shockingly the MECH FOCUSED GAME is bad at that.
>>97678763Same reason any game has non-combat skills instead of just relying on freeform RP. Also "enough time" varies depending on the task and the training of the person attempting it, and having rules to delineate that amount of time can matter.
>>97678779And this is one of the times I think freeform RP is more or less fine. The real meat is the mech combat. Hell, games like Gumshoe also involve combat more or less as an afterthought, rolling is a formality, and the real meat is in the questions you ask in a detective-focused game.
>>97678788I don't disagree with you, I can just also understand if people want even a modicum more structure. I'm cautiously interested in ICON by the same devs because it still has the fiddly tactics combat full of keywords, but everyone also gets a non-combat class with similar depth so that you don't get the classic D&D problem of fighters with nothing to do when there's a conversation and talkers who have fuckall to do in a fight. But for mechs if you aren't in the mech you're fucking up. Every problem can be reduced to a situation where you get in the mech and shoot 4-10 other mechs about it.
>>97671663Wanting a mecha skirmish combat game with light RP aspects to be a deep and fulfilling RP system is a you problem.
>>97679352Best take ITT>Play X-Com 2>WTF where's the dating sim mechanics?You can easily just house rule a handful of things and let your players do their own thing RP wise. Rules for RP is gay anyway.
>>97677660ive felt this way as well. if everyones in a mech with guns, whats the actual difference between just being people with guns?
>>97679352Disagree. The system is so only mecha combat that it could just as easily be a game about cyborg soldiers or netrunners or giant aliens and with minor flavor changes the system is exactly the same. It’s not really a system, it’s part of one, and that’s the issue. The veracity of the system is very low and the value of the setting is less because of it. Think of it like this. Gundam has cool fighting robots, but the most interesting part of the setting is the little people outside of the gundams, which most of the time takes up more runtime than the giant fighting robots.
>>97680520Lancer is closer to X-Com: Chimera Squad than X-Com 2. Tactics and modularity go out the window in favor of heckin kweerio hero units doing their epic ult to dab on those damned bigots.
Play Salvagay Commie-Union instead
