Why did rules lite slop become popular and simulations approaches less popular? Was it youtubers? Was it corpos pushing for it for more money? Was the millenials replacing the gen-x?
How can you possibly be too stupid to work this out yourself?
>>97680572This is a place for ideas exchange. You don't need to rush to the first response to give your shit non-answer nobody asked for if you have nothing to say or contribute to the thread.
>>97680562Casuals, that said rules lite and simulationism aren't mutually exclusive, nor rules heavy implies crunchiness. Also your pic related (some 3.x d20sys derivate slop) isn't strictly geared towards simulation unless what you want to simulate is toon physics bullshit.
>>97680591My contribution is to call you an imbecile. I'm sorry that wasn't clear enough for you.
>>97680562you have a weapon +2 at motherfucking 3rd level?
>>97680562Obviously because "simulations" are bloated systems trying to describe a player character in a video game / war game logic instead of real world logic. They simulate a fucking vidya or how other similar games look on the surface. The game itself is usually buried 6 ft under this shit and if you dig it up it is just another D&D heartbreaker with something like 6 stats with illusive Wisdom and Dexterity and 3e skill-list."Bloatations" always end up with something like in RAW GURPS swords are stronger against plate mail than blunt weapons. Or literally in every game stats and skills connected to each other in absolutely arbitrary way, for example separating mental and physical fitness when in real life one of the most obvious recipe for mind clarity is exercise.Such games can have 100 stats about how to hit a boblin or pick lock but in practice is always "up to GM" in every other case, making it difficult to interact with the game as if you were not controlling your character, but rather controlling a claw machine that controls your character. And it is the best scenario. Because target audience want just roll dice, add modifiers and press paper buttons instead of meaningful interaction with the imaginary world. Session must look something like sleepover with boys where 90% of the time you are doing elementary school homework.So answering your question, why indeed did fifty-casual-rules-lite-slop become popular and glorious-master-race simulations-approaches less popular? Because people play TTRPGs more and daydream about them less. Just like with board games, we witnessed a raise of real market and even its oversaturation to the point of grifting. So playing Monopoly in 2026 is silly when you can play something with actually thought-through and engaging rules.However, there is one thing worse. It is when people unironically call rules-lite anything that don't have 450 spells for a mage class and combat grid.
>>97680756>that said rules lite and simulationism aren't mutually exclusiveThere's a limit to how many rules you can strip from a system before the thing you're supposed to simulate losses its meaning and becomes purely a game mechanic. There needs to be a balance between both approaches.
The average IQ of the hobby dropped, most ttrpg players don't even skim the core rules anymore.
>>97680895Yes, although i'm more reserved with the "rulesystem" definition, for example, in my opinion, Knave isn't a rulesystem but a rough outline of one (it's just some mechanics, examples and "you fill the blank" using b/x kind of game), while opend6/minisix is a proper rules light rulesystem (as in a complete system of rules).
I liked developed simulation systems as a kid, but the more I played the more I appreciated simple, thought out rules, so long as they give a player enough tools to do be interestingplayers focus should be on what's happening in the game rather than fighting the rulesculmination of this was when I played 4ed warhammer fantasy, where there are 3 different skills to know about herbs, pick/grow herbs and do anything useful with them
>>97680562It used to be that tabletop games were just for nerds but now the hobby's been invaded by geeks.
>>97681507This.
>>97680562Always have been.
Rules light was the core of most DND, so in RPGs from the start. Hell even when Ad&d was around B/X was still super popular.Simulation games are often tedious bullshit. They don't reflect reality, they are more like a sado masochistic rules bloat of suffering.
>>97680562because rpgs on a very fundamental level are not simulations and never werebecause "simulations approaches" just boils down to having paper buttons meanwhile rules lite systems strive to have as little paper buttons as possibleand at the end of the day there is no no way a system about paper buttons in an age of vidya rpgs can be competitive with the lattertldr;because rules lite systems are fun to actually play at a table
>>97681825Wtf are you blabbing about? fucking Traveler was out by '77 (as for the basic set and ad&d), and runequest was out by '78. I guess that's the extent of the reasoning of a mental nigger that writes "DND" while being obviously capable of typing the ampersand.
>>97681878The OP incorrectly acted like rules light was new. Hell even traveller is not that rules heavy. You are both racist and a dumbass
>>97681899Op is a mongoloid that conflates "rule heavy" with simulationism, same deal with you, fucking backpedaling spastic and probably rl nigger since you got offended by being called out.
>>97680562Simulationist games usually ask "how can we realistically model this thing," instead of "how can we model this thing so that, if not fun, it's at least not clunky as fuck to use at the table." For example, we just tried some games of shadowrun 2e. In 2e, a decker has to make two rolls every time they do anything in the matrix. Every time every action, the odds that you will fail are doubled. This makes sense diegetically, but as a game mechanic, it's fucking horrible.
>>97681913I didn't get offended, I saw a racist dumbass and call a spade a spade. Deal with it snowflak.
>>97681972I'm glad you won't negate the backpedaling part at least. Nigger.
>>97680562Play ACKS. It's the peak of Gygaxian simulation with tables and charts and gameplay mechanics that model anything you would ever need, from detailed rules for mass combat, to animal husbandry/cattle trading
The shrill has arrived. Avoid ACks, it's just an over complicated and messy BX clone with an annoying fan base
>>97681924>>shadowrun 2eFantastic setting, crap ass rules.
GURPS owns yall cacas.
>>97680894>"simulations">simulate a fucking vidyaCongratulations, you came to the complete opposite conclusion to factual reality. You should reconsider suicide.
>>97682151>annoyingThat's a much kinder word than the one I'd use to describe them.
>>97680562Design cycles for ttrpgs have gone through a bunch of phases. >70s. Initial, D&D, messy, trial and error, lots of material lifted or implied from wargames >80s. Definement of that, a few offshoots, increasing complexity to 'solve' perceived problems >80s. Marketing gets ahold of complexity to sell splatbooks while fantasy novels take off >90s. Heartbreakers get big enough to get artsy. White Wolf happens. >2000s. WotC happens. OGL explosion. >2010s. Forge happens, refinement of heartbreakers and storyteller systems to actual storygames. >2010s. OSR happens, return to 70s/80s dnd>mid 2010s. Marketing happens to both large chunks of indi games. >mid 2010s. Stranger things, youtube, etc. shitflood, americans polarize everything everywhere all the time >late 2010s to now. Enshitification of that. All indi games are now marketing and making their own heartbreakers. fwiw the rule lite thing is fading, there's been an increase in complexity even for story games and rules light stuff as various makers recreate the same problems 40 years later.
>>97682234>fwiw the rule lite thing is fadingwhere? in videogames i believe you with the coming of dark souls but in ttrpg?
