Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to first-decade, Gygaxian D&D, its faithful modern clones, and content created for use with them. Later editions (2e and newer) should be discussed elsewhere.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons played as intended by its creators from 1974 to 1983 — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. We also have two excellent beginner guides created by Anons with feedback from the thread that you can check for help:>n00b DM's Guidehttps://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B>n00b Player's Handbookhttps://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768>Previous thread:>>97664614>Thread Question:What house rules are you currently using in your campaign?
>>97698524Fuck off fishfag.>>97698509Thank you for the proper OP.
give me >Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as it was played in the first decade of the game's existence—less emphasis on linear adventure plots and overarching metaplots and a greater emphasis on player agency.or give me death!
>>97698509>What house rules are you currently using in your campaign?I'm running an LBB game, so inevitably a fuckload, since you can't really run anything but an interpretation (and especially since there's little point in running an LBB-only game if you don't specifically want to run a *different* interpretation from Greyhawk/subsequent AD&D). Chainmail combat and a custom Thief might be worth mentioning.
>>97698579>>97698583this reaction really reminds me picrel
I played a 1st edition prebuilt ages ago about dwarves finding a cursed ruby, selling it/gifting it to a human king and then the kingdom just becoming absolutely haunted and riddled with bad luck until it was abandoned and your party is going to go into the abandoned castle to try to find the ruby. Does anyone know what prebuilt scenario I'm talking about?
>>97698644Do you remember if it was official or third party? A separate module or something found in a magazine?
>>97698509I'm using a homebrew, so I suppose the answer is "all of them".
>>97698524Why not just set up another OSR thread without the OPs restriction ?
>>97700339People did that before a few times.The troll followed, and spent several hours putting on a samefag show where he shitposted to himself for several hours just to flood the thread.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96881801/#q96887950
>97700741>People
>>97700741eat shit, fishfag
>>97698509>What house rules are you currently using in your campaign?A bunch, enough to damn me to FOEGYG for eternity I suspect. Running Scarlet Heroes with one player, added in henchmen, changed the xp levelling to just 1k-2k-4k-8k etc, using range bands, wilderness travel rules are a mishmash of old dolemenwood crawling from wormskin and bits and pieces I've accumulated from here and blogs over the years. Expanded reaction rolls. inventory slots likely more I've forgotten.
>>97700768You're really gonna try to throw that stone, when we've just seen the entirety of your house is made of glass?
>>97700815you gonna post another fake character sheet?
>>97700741Gods above this dude is sad.
>>97700876sad? that shits funny. also, a gay hippo, thats your smoking gun?
>>97698644Could be Palace of the Silver Princess. There is a ruby and a curse. Not sure about dwarves.
>>97700741lmao that's hilarious. Kill yourself, subhuman garbage
>>97700798>>97700802you have to be borderline retarded to believe that the dude who was having that conversation posted itoh wait... you are
Why was Anomalous Subsurface Environment never completed? As far as I understand, levels 1-3 have been published, we have only the map of level 4, and nothing at all for levels 5 and 6.
>>97701504Forgot picrel
>>97701504This is the last that was heard AFAIK:>https://henchmanabuse.blogspot.com/2023/02/i-live.html
>>97701600
>>97701276>that conversation wasnt real!>he didnt actuallt post it!what the fuck are you trying to damage control now?>>97701504idk have you tried even bothering with a cursory google search?
>>97700876It delivers a pretty sad answer to "what is this guy willing to do in order to try and get his way."The guy is 100% shameless, with way too much time on his hands. That's a nasty combination.
>>97700876>>97702825Egad! Is that...the most deplorable and heinous of villainy? Is that... my word, it is! It's somebody with enough time to post on 4channel.org? And hes attached a comedic image? Of a homosexual space hippo?AIIIIE save me from this memetic horror, Dagon!
>>97702818>have you tried even bothering with a cursory google search?I did, hence why I led with a summary of my own findings, angry-cunt-kun. Try unclenching your butthole a bit, throwing a tantrum every time anybody asks anything is not good for your health, you might start developing gills and bulging eyes.>>97700876>>97702825Obvious butthurt samefishfag is obvious. Everybody except (You) finds that thread and the way you got rekt throughout hilarious. You're once again confirmed to be a literal autist with a defective theory of mind.
>>97702900>I didyo i apologize idk why i was bitchy like that my bad dawg
>>97700876>Gods above
Should a Barbarian be able to use Crossbows?
>>97703480should you be able to make such dogshit posts?and idk, what system are you playing? because it will tell you
>>97703485>should you be able to make such dogshit posts?I think this is rich looking at the fact that this is now the fish general.> what system are you playing?Any system OSR, modern or original (AD&D) in which fighters and barbarians exist. Should a Barbarian be able to use crossbow, as a theme and familiarity? One could argue the same for polearms.The formers evokes something too mechanical vs the bow of an hunter, the latter town militia and professoinal soldiers.Should warrior types beside fighters be able to use all?
>>97703480Crossbows are dead simple to use, so yes.
>>97703582>Any system OSR, modern or original (AD&D) in which fighters and barbarians exist. Should a Barbarian be able to use crossbow, as a theme and familiarityhave you tried looking in the books you fucking faggot?do you even have any understanding of the differences between bows/xbows? You are worried that barbarians shouldnt have polearms?Holy fuck you are stupid
>>97703624>pic relatedthis is you right now, my manthe guy's not asking about ruleshe's asking whether you feel that barbarians should or should not be able to use crossbows as an outside-ruleset thinghow you feel and think, and I know emotions and independent thought can be a new and frightening concept but I ask that you persevere and fight through the pain, about barbarians being able to use crossbows as a concept
>>97702906all good, kitten>>97703582>The formers evokes something too mechanicalArguably, a Barbarian shouldn't be able to build a crossbow, but using it is so simple that it doesn't make sense to prevent a Barbarian from using them. Barbarians are not retarded.
>>97698509Anyone remember Dragon magazine? I used to love the AD&D adventures, stories, DMing tips, magic item and monster articles, as well as everyone asking questions and arguing in the 'letters to the editor' pages. It even used to have essays from Gygax and other designers on how to play the game or on various settings. Good times.
>>97703673Thank you anon. I think some poster here has some sort of disability or neurodivergence or is so full of rage vs everything that cannot think straight.>>97703695>Arguably, a Barbarian shouldn't be able to build a crossbow, but using it is so simple that it doesn't make sense to prevent a Barbarian from using them. Barbarians are not retarded.I see - the point is - fuck themes, too simple for a warrior-type to not to.Same with a Partisan or Billhook I presume (*for a guy that can already use a greatsword I mean).
>>97703673>>97703773>retard doesnt understand that using an xbow is simpler than a bow but harder to make>retard thinks barbarians cannt use polearms (?)eat shit, nogames
>>97701118This is it! I may have misremembered some aspects as it was almost 20 years ago but the cover art just jogged my memory.
>>97703924You still don't understand the issue, even if you named it.A crossbow could be more complex to make, at least the heavy one with windlass or cranequin loading, which are very mechanical and arguably very distand from what a barbarian would be.You have mental issues dude.
>>97704034The only difference I will say is I remember my DM having a plot which seemed like something out of Tolkien and also was a big Warhammer Fantasy High Elf/Dark Elf fan on top of the original 40k epic game so he may have made a homebrew plot off this prebuilt. I basically got into /tg/ shit because of him.
>>97704042NTA. So, you're saying if you can't make a crossbow, the rules don't allow you to use them? What fucking rules set are you using?The whole point of the crossbow was that they were easy to use and required virtually no training when compared to the bow.
>>97703480Depends on how you think it affects the verisimilitude.I'm inclided to say no they can't but honestly feel that it is too small an issue to worry about.
>>97704042NTA>A crossbow could be more complex to make, at least the heavy one with windlass or cranequin loading,Correct.>which are very mechanical and arguably very distand from what a barbarian would be.Cherry-picking out windlasses and cranequins is disingenuous. BY FAR the most common device for drawing a crossbow - that is to say, a man-portable, shoulder-fired crossbow - was some flavor of gaffe with most crossbows eschewing even that and relying on body strength. Even the Chinese, with their crossbow fetish and elaborate designs, armed their troops largely with designs that were drawn via muscle.To change the context to make a point, if this was a discussion about early modern firearms you'd be arguing that men-at-arms shouldn't be allowed to use matchlock arquebuses because wheellock repeating rifles are too complex and expensive for them to make.
>>97704060The plot is very pulpy sword & sorcery and it's only tenuously connected to the actual adventure. A good module to re-lore if one wanted to. It was actually first marketed as an instructional module and parts of it were left blank for the DM to fill in. Mostly traps and treasure but why stop there, I say.Here's a link to the forbidden first printing that got pulled off the shelves if you're interested.www dot pandius dot com slash b3_orig dot pdf
>>97700741I think he accidentally laid bare his soul, and his soul is pure cringe.
>>97703765I used to have every issue from 100 to 160 less just a handful, and an assortment from 65 to 96. Still have Best of vII-V. Had some of the early years of Dungeon too. My occasional purges of gaming material is one of the great regrets of my youth. And the crimes.I still use a lot of Dragon material and Dungeon adventures. There's an article about the value of animal and monster skins, horns, eggs, etc I always reference. The Ecology of... series is fantastic. I've got a file somewhere that compiles 50ish of them. Really great stuff. There's trash too. It's not all treasure. Kinda fun to read sometimes.If you want a chuckle and are willing to waste a bunch of time check the Letters to the Editor and Forums from issue 137 onward for the saga of Waldorf the 358th level magic-user. It is incredibly stupid but probably the best troll and response meme to exist in the entire run of Dragon.
Anons, I'm considering introducing some science-fantasy elements in my campaign, but I'm in a bit of a pickle fuck fishfag when it comes to advanced weapons.>In Gamma World, Weapons like vibro blades and laser guns deal between 5d6 and 8d6 damage, and use charges. >In Mutant Future and hence Stonehell II, Vibro swords deal 1d8+16 damage and laser rifles deal 8d6. Both use charges. >In Barrier Peaks, laser pistols deal 2d8 damage + the AC of the targer, laser rifles deal 2d10 + the AC of the target, blaster pistols deal 5d6, and black blaster rifles disintegrate on a passed save and deal 5d6 damage on a failed save. These also use charges: The descriptions of the items do not say this, but when they're found the booklet always specifies how many charges these items have.>ASEAt the opposite end we have Anomalous Subsurface Environment, in which vibro ("manifold") blades act exactly like +2 weapons and do not use charges; laser pistols deal 1d8 damage, and laser rifles deal 1d8+2 damage.>SWNI went to check what Kevin Crawford did in Stars Without Number (not a fan, but just to have one more data point), and there laser pistols deal 1d6 damage and laser rifles deal 1d10 without using charges as far as I can see, and vibro ("advanced") blades just have +1 to damage.>Classic TravellerLastly, I also looked up Traveller for reference, and there laser carbines deal as much damage as a two-handed sword (4d6), while laser rifles deal just a bit more damage (5d6). If we scale these back to D&D values, it's as if a laser carbine dealt 1d10 damage, and a laser rifle dealt 2d6. These do use charges.1/2
>>977063192/2So there are two diametrically opposite schools of thought: In the FIRST one, advanced weapons are comparable in power and functioning to wands of fireballs, and they are treated as treasure. In the SECOND one, advanced weapons are comparable to slightly more powerful versions of swords and bows, getting something in the ballpark of perhaps +2 to +3 to damage. Traveller stands between these two extremes.Now of course I don't strictl need to reconcile all of these different approaches in my campaign. If I have Anomalous Subsurface Environment, Barrier Peaks, and Stonehell II, each can have its own different type of laser gun, and while in name they are the same, in working and power level they are very different from one another. They must all come from different civilisations or whatever.However, I don't find this satisfactory at all. I'd prefer to have some kind of internal coherence in my game, in which laser guns all work in similar ways and deal similar amounts of damage. I also don't like the idea, when a player says "I shoot with my laser rifle", to have to ask "Which one?"What are your thoughts and feelings about this? Which approach do you prefer? First one? Second one? Both at the same time? How much damage should a vibro blade or a laser rifle deal? Should they use charges, and if they do, how easy should it be to recharge them?
>>97706319>TravellerSilly anon, Traveller's damage system is entirely different, it doesn't even use HPI'd say it depends on how common you think these will be in your game. If your players are going to be tripping over them, I'd go with the weaker version.
>>97706323Running sword and planet pulp at the moment with Carcosa, I don't have any consistency between different future weapons at all, they're all unique artifacts. There's a table for making the various weapon combinations and still has key words to use for energy types and resistances if you want. The damage is highly variable, sometimes even with the same gun. I tend to stat them to be at least twice as much damage as a regular sword or other primitive sort of weapon.They should certainly use charges though, no resource should be unlimited, they end up being semi disposable as recharging them isn't easy and requires power sources so old ones, greys, some fuckehead sorcerer or other horrible monsters.
>>97704304>>97704520>>97704736It's a simple matter of themes and "what is the barbarian accustomed to".And FYI - in a world with plate, the windlass/cranequin ones are probably the ones that are used.
>>97704736>men-at-arms shouldn't be allowed to use matchlock arquebuses because wheellock repeating rifles are too complex and expensive for them to makeIs not just "them". Even if they cannot make them, their society can, so they had them around.The Barbarian's society cannot make them, so he didn't have them around.
>discussion of ancient laser weapons along discussion of if barbarians can use xbowkek Its the same thing. Barbarians can use crossbows the same as a primitive can use a laser gun. We make guns and crossbows as simple to use as possible. Barbarian doesn't mean stupid, they can look at it, mess with the crank and figure it out.
>>97707276So the Wizard, which is smarter, should also use the crossbow - correct?
>>97706709>Traveller's damage system is entirely differentSure, but I was comparing how much more damage a laser gun deals with respect to a 2H sword. It's not a perfect comparison, I agree, but it's still kinda relevant to see how game handle it.>If your players are going to be tripping over them, I'd go with the weaker version.Yeah, that's probably the key factor.>>97707199>CarcosaAh, yeah, I should look into that one as well! Thanks for the reminder. You find it works well?
>>97707207You can get "accustomed" to using a crossbow in a half hour. You probably won't be able to hit shit, but you'll have been instructed in how to load, draw, point, and shoot, which is all you need to work one.
>>97707287Smarter doesn't mean stronger or mechanically capable.
>>97707293>You find it works well?Mixed bag. I don't really like the random HP every encounter bit so I dropped that. The overall themes, monsters and such are good, the hex map needs a lot of DM input to tie together. The lack of a starting locus for treasure-for-xp and such isn't a big deal but I had to make that my self too. I like it but its not pick-up-and-play very easily.
>>97707503>The lack of a starting locus for treasure-for-xpYou mean a settlement to use as a "home base"?
>>97707676Yeah that. Made a tent city growing into a settlement on the edge of Lake Hali with various competing cults and forming trade guilds. They're likely doomed to perish whenever a moderate sized monster gets it together enough to care but it works for now. There's a decent amount of castles, towers and such scattered across the hex map but they're all focused on one specific leader holding it together and I wanted something with more factions.
>>97706319>>97706323IMO the lasers at least should certainly use charges. I run a planetary adventure OD&D game and I just have rayguns do a die of damage and ignore most armor – but then, in LBB OD&D almost everything does one die of damage if it hits. >>97707503>The lack of a starting locus for treasure-for-xp and such isn't a big dealI thought it was a pretty big deal personally, and the whole thing made much more sense to me when I learned that in McKinney's game the city of Carcosa was a CSIO-style oasis of civilization (I think he may have used the map, in fact, but I can't recall now). He made absolutely no mention of it in the actual book because "he wanted each referee to make the city his own", but to my mind he should have at least explained its intended game function in the setting, if only with a line or two.
>>97708450>I thought it was a pretty big deal personallyI can understand how its a deal killer. I'm just used to making the starting settlement so did that but having a Carcosa/CISO generator akin to Welcome to Corpathium or Yoon-Suin would be very cool.
>>97707485But light crossbows are peasant levels, correct?Perhaps 3e was correct in allowing wizards to use xbows
>>97708562>light crossbows are peasant levels, correct?NTAYRT. You got it completely backwards. Longbows were a peasant thing, at one point in England every village was required to train longbowmen. They were dirt cheap but required lots of time to train and huge physical strength, of which farmers and labourers had plenty, outside of the farming months.Crossbows, on the other hand, being expensive but very easy to use and little strength, certainly compared to longbows, were the weapons of the guilded and landed gentry and of nobles.
>>97708749Peasants used crossbows a damned lot. They took two weeks of training at best, unlike a bow. They used to call up the peasants and hand em out. They were very common weapons as you could take out a knight with an mostly untrained trooper. They were not something reserved for nobility
>>97708450>in McKinney's game the city of Carcosa was a CSIO-style oasis of civilizationI admit I last looked through my copy ages ago (the most recent use was unsticking the cover from what it was on the shelf next to... the soft texture got tacky for some reason?) but for some reason my brain stored the city of Carcosa as some kind of end-game hostile to all life fucked up zone that's simply called a city in name because of how big it is, visible from miles away.
>>97705578>he accidentally laid bare his soulfishfreak, he posted gay hippos. stop acitng like a hysterical woman
.
>>97708937That may not be what he did in his home game, but the book says nothing about it, and meanwhile the original story of the King in Yellow that the name is taken from absolutely fits that idea. It's a cursed, dead city that nobody ever returns from, ruled over by the King in Yellow, who sits on his throne, watching over his dead city and all that he lost, unable to die. Anyone who enters falls under the curse that befell his subjects and dies, or worse.
>>97708953All he has is acting hysterical.That and false flagging.Remember, people have totes written 200 page campaign logs just to try and assassinate him with the spiritual energy that such things create.
>>97708562I run classless, they're all adventurers and can use weapons or learn spells depending on stats
>>97708976not osr
>>97708960>It's a cursed, dead city that nobody ever returns from, ruled over by the King in Yellow, who sits on his throne, watching over his dead city and all that he lost, unable to die. Anyone who enters falls under the curse that befell his subjects and dies, or worse.I went with this at the middle of Lake Hali, haven't mapped it out and am largely aiming at having it be a dungeon for higher level play. The various cults around it and the monsters that live in the lake built a settlement around and outside it, offering sacrifices to appease the monsters and the king in yellow and a trade locus around those activities.
>>97708953>>97708956OSR general, not fishfag discussion general please. He's clearly gotten banned again, let's just enjoy the quiet.>>97708976Eww that's very gay, anon. At least you're rightly ashamed, kek.>>97709014If I were to do a Carcosa campaign, I'd slot the city into a Law/Chaos split as like a Moorcockian Atlantis, a city of Order whose king conquered the world, giving it its name, and foolishly tried to stamp out Chaos, which turned the eyes of the ascendant Lords of Chaos upon him, and now he serves as a reminder and a warning that there is no final victory for Order in this dark epoch.
>>97709012>>97709024¯\\_(ツ)_/¯Everyone's a little FOE sometimes. I'll say my hail gary's and flagellate a bit.
>>97708450>>97708960>>97709014>>97709024>the whole thing made much more sense to me when I learned that in McKinney's game the city of Carcosa was a CSIO-style oasis of civilizationWtf? Carcosa is on my to-read list, I only had a quick look at it. Do I have to take notes??
>>97709089forgiven
On the topic of Carcosa, have any of you looked at the Carcosa modules that McKinney has published separately from the main book? They seem to have vanished from the internet, they're not on McKinney's Lulu page anymore, but I have them saved on my 'puterhttps://www.lulu.com/spotlight/geof_mckinney
>>97709141do you think jannys can delete? Only a mod can do that, newfag. Looks like the mods hate you tbdesu
>>97708513>I can understand how its a deal killer.I wouldn't go so far as to call it a dealbreaker – I still think Carcosa is one of the best things ever to come out of the OSR. I just think that given how crucial it is to the rhythm of play and how easy it would be to explain himself in a sentence or two, McKinney should have put a brief note about it in the book itself, instead of just mentioning it offhand in an interview or FAQ or something.>>97708937I don't blame you at all; the single sentence mentioning it in the hex description and the alien city art on the cover certainly trend in that direction.
>>97709095Have to? No. But it might be worth remembering, since a few things in the book seem to make little sense as written (e.g. if almost every settlement is on a stone age level, what do you even do with loot, who accepts gold pieces? If everywhere is either a backwater shithole or actual infestation of Cthulhoid Chaos, where do adventurers base themselves? How do you even recuperate if your return from the wilderness leads to the citadel of Fuckhole McShitsalot and his sixty blue goons?). Once you realize that actually, the writer played his games such that there was a huge decdent city-state in the middle of the map where you can buy gear, gather rumors, seethe at money changers and sleep in an inn, a lot of that shit clicks into place.
>>97709024>I'd slot the city into a Law/Chaos split as like a Moorcockian Atlantis...This is a much better idea than mine, going to use it, thanks anon.
>deletedlol
>James Edward Raggi>J E W
>>97709174It definitely changes the vibes a bit to be more like ZARDOZ
>>97709122picrel
>>97709199Truth is unchanged. You're a lying scumbag.
>>97709302nah
>>97709122Ah, nuts, he spiked them? Fuck! I've been dragging my feet on picking them up, what a bummer.I'm going to hope against reason that he pulled them for publication with Raggi or to revise them for OSRIC 3.
>>97709205If so he's the only one who ever got in trouble for not paying taxes. Bastard is going to go bankrupt without ever releasing his ref book.
party got shit-kicked by a mad wizard's pet gorgon tonight. had to use out last wish to undo petrification for five out of nine party members. was a nail-biter, that dickhead wizard was very wiley.
