When did fantasy stop being grounded to become DnDslop?
>>97699290Well, first off, DND was always rather grounded. World of Warcraft was the beginning of the enshittification of fantasy aesthetics, with big cartoony armor, extremely vibrant pastel colors, and everything looking neat and clean, with scale going right out the fucking window.This comparison pretty much seals the deal. People seem to completely underestimate how influential and massive WoW was, now that it's been fallen off for the last 10 years.
>>97699290>groundedThe average person's idea of "grounded" is less accurate than fantasy.
>>97699307Top is pretty boring. Post planescape art instead.
>>97699307FPBPBlizzslop is gay as hell
>>97699290Never>t. WFRP 2e chad
>>97699327That's because you're a serotonin-chasing cretin who has no appreciation for aesthetic or artistic verisimilitude.
>>97699290>When did fantasy stop being grounded to become DnDslop?When you stopped making your fantasy games and stories grounded, and the fact that you never moved past D&D.
>>97699290Late 3.5 edition transitioning into 4th Edition.>>97699307Blizzard was the incubator when Warcraft III codified the basic aesthetics of modern High Fantasy, but it was League of Legends and the legions of phone games like Clash of Clans that pushes it hard into becoming mainstream, with Age of Sigmar and D&D 4th edition opening the floodgates onto tabletop proper.Curiously, the actual Warcraft RPG based on 3.5th edition is closer to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay in tone, with your average PCs being grizzled mercenaries exploring a strange new world barely still on its feet after the conclusion to a near-apocalyptic demon war.
>>97699351a man that calls himself a chad is no chad.
>>97699290>Fantasy was grounded.Have you somehow never touched any piece of Arthurian fiction?
>>97699307I greatly prefer the top, I love action shots and dynamism in general, but the bottom is pretty damn good as far as modern art goes; still a touch too gay and saturated for my tastes, though. If the firbolg and the tiefling looked like they fit in, it would be almost perfect. The image doesn't fall into the trap that makes the characters look like they know they're getting their picture taken; it looks like they're taking a break from travel, and meandering about while planning their next course.
>>97699290Depends on if you mean art or just as a whole. Mechanically speaking, 3e/3.5e really amped up the high fantasy aspects by focusing more on spellcasting and codifying magic items into progression.
Why don’t people just play world of darkness if they want something grounded
>>97699566They dont want something grounded, this is a thinly veiled culture war thread where people signal their approval for the based old time (that actually never existed)
>>97699545The only thing OP and this tard >>97699307 touched was dicks.
Personally high fantasy is the standard and should always be the standard. Dragon balls for laif.
>>97699566Okay, well:1 - What the fuck are you talking about referring to World of Darkness as "grounded"? Shit's a circus.2 - Why are you implying that people should go play one singular game for something "grounded"?3 - Implying that one singular game should be the "grounded one" that all the "grounded" fantasy players go to so you can revel in your dipshit nostalgia-driven childhood wonderment is annoying, and space-invading. Kill yourself, preferably with a hot iron, and stop ruining tabletop RPG's with your utmost niggertard faggotry.
>>97699637Is this what trying too hard looks like
>>97699517> Curiously, the actual Warcraft RPG based on 3.5th edition is closer to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay in toneSounds really bad.
>>97699614High fantasy can be grounded. I think the term you're looking for is "childish". You want "childish" fantasy. Like Alice in Wonderland, or The Wizard of Oz, or The Chronicles of Narnia.
>>97699290Retard
>here’s your low fantasy bro
>>97699307Soul vs. pronounpunk...
>>97699683A proper English slag.
>>97699637Did he die?
>>97699307>World of Warcraft was the beginning of the enshittification of fantasy aesthetics, with big cartoony armor, extremely vibrant pastel colors, and everything looking neat and clean, with scale going right out the fucking window."World of Warcraft" is a funny way of saying "LotR movies trilogy". The only thing wow is to blame is the shitty huge pauldrons that plague modern fantasy.
>>97699735Well yeah, because he didn't say that, because that wasn't the problem. Warcraft was.
>>97699666It's a fascinating look into the zenith of the pre-WoW era back when the setting wasn't being contorted to fit gameplay concerns. Concepts like D&D-style Drow eventually ended up evolving into the Nightborne and it hinted at a world where the major factions were only beginning to understand it beyond their bubbles of isolation.
>>97699290Complainers put too much emphasis on modern art styles and politics. DnD became slop because WotC writers were hacks who couldn't create a game that was rewarding in just being played, so they had to resort to video-game gimmicks like carrot on a stick and bloat progression. >"kids these days have a short attention span" Nah, boomer, you're just boring.
>>97700993>as a mac userlolthis is the great champion of the Warcraft aesthetic?
>>97699505Buddy, when you say the person complaining about the problem, is the problem, you only tell everyone that you are on the side of Current Year shitters who think OP's bottom pic is better.
>>97699584>(that actually never existed)It did, you're retarded
>>97699290Fantasy was pretty varied before, it's pretty varied now. Majority of anything, especially anything even somewhat pooular, is always slop and has always been, but it's not like DnD is all there is to fantasy today.
>>97699290>fantasy>grounded
>>97699290FUCK grounded fantasy. I want larger than life fantasy with flying wizard cities, citadels of darkness and doom, planar travels to strange places and cosmic cataclysms in the darkness of space.
>>97701169Based Age of Sigmar enjoyer.
>>97701178if you dont think this looks cool, i feel sorry for you
>>97699290How did this topic affect your last traditional games session?
>>97699307who is the artist of the top image? I love some old school D&D art
>>97699290As many people have pointed out. It was more of Warcraft and Warhammer that push the DNDslop more than DND itself. Though I think 4e and 5e made DND the full blown slop fest even past Warcraft. (Every species has to have every human race in it. (Other than the white male unless it's a villain or is gay.)Doesn't help the theater and drama club rejects invaded and took over along with the queers and karens cause the idea of not gatekeeping and letting everyone in was in at the time. So once they got some power, they purge the old guard and gatekept hard. Hints why fantasy is mostly shit now and old games, books, shows, etc are beating new shit which is just a bad romances novel with some magic, or just with elves, manotaurs, vampires, and werewolves. That or taking the old IPs they have rights over and race/sex changing everything so the last white men in it are just the idiot and the villain. Or the classic sequel series where it the same shit but this time a woman is the real chosen one and the last one wasn't the true one or was to be the teacher to her. If they don't make him the villain or dead father. Hints why I drop most western media outside of some good indies like Kamen America and Rippaverse. (Also just got my new Blade Devil and Cyberpop comics and been loving those.)
>>97701223if oldschool shit failed to keep customer interest, it deserved to die. Simple as. Should have bought more product.
>>97701192I was not being facetious in the least
>>97701229........ So is that why woke white women writers complain still that their books don't sell as well as compared to classic series like LOTR, Moorcock, Dragonlance, Lovecraft, Conan, etc. Hell Manga alone takes over a good part of bookstores compare to modern fantasy.
>>97701244Fair. Its hard to make the difference in this place, considering the general discourse around AoS. Though lately i find myself pulled more in the more "cosmic" direction, instead of the more god-wars focussed one we get in Sigmar. I crave stuff kinda like Spelljammer, but not as zeisty pirate adventure in the astral plane and more about the cold vastness of infinity and comic horror. Funnily enough Warcraft of all the places is currently scratching that itch with its new expansion, pic related being the skybox in its new final zone.
>>97701277Janny application status?
>>97701284Cry more, wannabe janny.
>>97701288>n-no u!lelYou can do better than that, fakejanny.
>>97701284KEK
>>97701306Well why dont you ban me with your janny powers then?
>>97699327Planescape was always gay and retarded, it's where the tiefling cancer began.
>>97699584Mindbroken.
>>97701223>cause the idea of not gatekeeping and letting everyone in was in at the timeWhat do you think could have been done to gatekeep, retard? You're always bitching about others not doing it but you never say what could have been done.
>>97699307Truth. It's incredible how a simple style choice meant to fit into low poly aesthetics turned into such a malignant cancer combined with worst aspects of corpoRAT eggshell walking.
>>97701682>>97701682right is fan art of the goofy Hearthstone style, not a official blizzard piece. Pic related is their most recent artwork.
>>97702148>over-designed turbo-garbageThey absolutely refuse to make anything decent anymore.
>>97699327absolute pleb tier opinion
>>97702260i am glad """"people"""" like you and your shit boomer taste are effectively gatekept.
>>97699307trueit's weird how people pick a random cut off point and assume nothing before it matters. Maybe it's just 12 year olds.>>97699545what?Athurian fiction is pretty much the lowest fantasy tier by modern standards. It wasn't even that crazy when compared to greek and nordic myths.
>>97702302Except I'm not being gatekept, and I'm actively gatekeeping retarded little zoomer nigger-shits with zero taste such as yourself. Cope and seethe about your talentless "Artists" making slop for you and thinking it's good, lmao.
>>97702432>I'm actively gatekeepingIsnt the point of this thread that you want your slop to become mainstream instead of high fantasy?
>>97701565Or maybe it was you who was always gay and retarded.
>>97699290I don't know if grounded is the right word here but I think I know what you mean
>>97701052I wasn't going to mention that I make my own games, because pathetic retards like to use that as ammo for other shitty deflections, but I just wanted to let you know that I moved on from D&D years ago not only because of how trash it is, but also because of how you just can't talk to any of its fans about actual game design, because they're all about "re-rewrite what y-you don't l-like" or "f-find another g-group".And on that subject, it's really funny how they're always on about how you can write the book for the developers, but when you talk about what you've made all of a sudden it's "w-well that's ma-masturbatory" or no-nobody wants t-to know a-about your sh-shitty homebrew".It's always about shifting blame and flip-flopping with these faggots.
>>97703258All that to tell everyone that the reason you are nogames is because you are retarded.
>>97702437And what is Elden Ring, retard?
>>97703426high fantasy? Where the fuck did you pull elden ring from anyways.
>>97703258>but also because of how you just can't talk to any of its fans about actual game design, because they're all about "re-rewrite what y-you don't l-like" or "f-find another g-group".You're apparently too stupid to realize that Rule Zero is an inherent part of the genre, not exclusive to D&D. If you want codified rules systems and mechanics that get followed to the letter you should go play a wargame, kiddo.
>>97703310I don't fudge dice or pull punches.My games operate on challenges to skill and luck.Cope and seethe, you mouthbreather.
>>97703435>pulls out what he thinks is a cunning retort saying "haha, but it isn't mainstream">one of the best performing RPG's of the last decade has been a franchise that thrives on dark high fantasy gritty aesthetic that runs opposite of the cartoonish high fantasy of WoWTry bringing your thinking cap next time, junior, I don't have time to spoon feed retards on why they're retard.
>>97703450
>>97703442>j-just p-pway a wa-wawgame!Nah, I'll continue making tabletop roleplaying games, featuring characters I make decisions for who aren't myself.Keep dilating because you can't talk about actual games and engage with critical thinking about their design.
>>97703455>now calls it moving the goalposts when the goal is directly scored against
>>97703450>I don't have time to spoon feed retards on why they're retard.You're not arguing on /tg/ about the state of modern fantasy because you're a mature and important individual with a busy life and a lot of important things to do, anon. That's one fantasy that's too far-fetched, too lacking in verisimilitude or believability or groundedness for even the fans of goofiest fantsy out there to buy.
>>97703462Stick to /v/ dude.
>>97703458>Keep dilating because you can't talk about actual games and engage with critical thinking about their design.lmao, that's you!
>>97703447Your "games" is just you sitting at a table drooling all over yourself.
>>97703472AH yes, the age old critique of:>I got completely and utterly raped like a dumb nigger and torn to shreds in the most despicable and filthy way possible>I know! I'll say that he's immature and it doesn't matter anyway!Kill yourself, genuinely kill yourself, put a shotgun in your mouth and blow your brains out all over your fucking wall, and light your home on fire killing your family, if you're too much of a sewage-gened retard to engage in even the lightest of conversations in good faith, without resorting to dismissive rationalization.
>>97703477>hobbyingPlaying games is part of the hobby.>character developmentThe attributes and skills of my characters develop over the course of the campaign.>storyAll necessary story is baked into the character options, traversable areas, dungeons and environments, and enemies that may be encountered, the rest of the necessary story emerging from the gameplay.You have permission to commit suicide, now.
>>97701217The artist is Clyde Caldwell, according to basic use of this site's reverse image search feature.
>>97703660And speaking of reverse image searching, where do you think the scum-sucking faggot who posted this thread is cross-posting from?
>>97702302Every game after Warcraft: Orcs and Humans was gay and lame.
>>97699307>D&D>groundedNo.
Why are /v/ culture war threads migrating here?
>>97701284Kek. Stealing this for his next appearances.
Seriously what do people have against high fantasy? It’s a better mirror than what low fantasy offers.
>>97703888TWW kiddies coming here to larp in the TOW thread and troll the others. You can see a lot of "D&D bad TOW good" in this very thread.
>>97701192Fall of Cadia 2.0?Didn't like first one though.
>>97702302>and your shit boomer taste are effectively gatekept.I hate to break it for you, but Warcraft, or He-Man are ultimate boomer-core.Current generations prefers human male warrior drugging silver haired anime magic prince through the mud:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMgpeKBMYs4Not sequel to Warcraft movie.
>>97705948The Witcher/Elric is older than Warcraft/He-Man dumbass. That would be the "BOOMER-CORE" Warcraft and He-Man would be Gen X/Millennial.
>>97699290Tolkien ruined fantasy. Instead of s&s and wierd fiction we just got endless tolkien-slop
>>97706052>Instead of s&s and wierd fictionHoward was just a hack.And capeshit isn't "le weird fiction"
>>97706028>The Witcher/Elric is older than Warcraft/He-Man dumbass.Not if judge when Witcher became mainstream.And I have no idea why you would antagonise Elric and He-Man.
>>97706088Nah, I don't hate He-Man who was inspired by Robert E Howard's Conan. With more Magical Plot armor, and Moorcock novels along with Robert and more help make the best parts of DND.I was just calling out the Silver haired spellblade is older then his "boomer-core" Warcraft and He-Man, and both take inspiration from Moorcock. (Magical sword that grants overwhelming power. Sounds like Stormbringer don't you think.)
>>97699290Fantasy from the very beginning was fantastic, not grounded. It's the whole reason it's called fantasy.
>>97701583I don't buy the woke fantasy slop. Got to remember, many of these new queer fantasy isn't selling. However, it took them decades to get into the big IPs and force this shit. (Why do you think EVERYTHING went gay about the same time.)Hell I am tempted to try to take advantage of it and make the new shit that replaces their woke ass failures and takes over. We see it time and time again. Big companies think they can sell whatever they want and people will eat their slop and find out that's not the case.
>>97706266>Hell I am tempted to try to take advantage of it and make the new shit that replaces their woke assThen do it and stop being a daydreaming failure
>>97706250>I was just calling out the Silver haired spellblade is older then his "boomer-core" Warcraft and He-Man, and both take inspiration from Moorcock.And so..?
>>97706250>(Magical sword that grants overwhelming power. Sounds like Stormbringer don't you think.)Actually not since Stormbringer wasn't the first magical sword which gives power in the genre. The key point of Stormbringer was that it's a cursed weapon and actually a primordial demon >. With more Magical Plot armor, and Moorcock novels along with Robert and more help make the best parts of DND.Except Moorcock never wrote for DnD as far as I remember and Howard was already dead.>I was just calling out the Silver haired spellblade is older then his "boomer-core" Warcraft and He-ManSo crappy AoS/WC >>97702302 >>97702148 >>97701257 >>97701192 >>97701169 shit still belongs to boomer-core.
>>97705809>It’s a better mirror than what low fantasy offers.May be people not so interested in self-inserting after all?
>>97699290When Gygax started fucking with his friends instead of trying to tell a good story.
>>97699358NTA, I tried reading Dragonlance and couldn't get past Dragons of Winter Night. It was just boring, and for every interesting thing that happened, two other things would kill my interest. I didn't find the narrative as engaging as Forgotten Realms slop with Greenwood's thinly veiled fetishes.
>>97699358Raistlin is for fags.
>>97706488>Actually not since Stormbringer wasn't the first magical sword which gives power in the genre. The key point of Stormbringer was that it's a cursed weapon and actually a primordial demonYeah, The Lich King's Frostmourne from Warhammer was a cursed sword.>Except Moorcock never wrote for DnD as far as I remember and Howard was already dead.Dude Gygax and the others were inspired by their stories. They don't even hide it, I never said Howard or Moorcock wrote anything. Just their stories help inspired and made some of the best parts of DND.>shit still belongs to boomer-core.Counter point. No one cares, it doesn't matter if it was made in the 1920s or 2020s. Good shit is good shit and bad shit is bad shit. I don't care when or where it was made. I just care if it's good, and I am sure most people are about the same boat. Hints why you seeing classical IPs who basically over by woke karens flop as bad as Concord and Higuard.
>>97706942>The Lich King's Frostmourne>from WarhammerAt this point I am sure you are doing it on purpose.>Dude Gygax and the others were inspired by their stories.Okay and so..?Form up your argument already.>Counter point. No one cares,This guy: >>97702302 seems to care.So following point: why even enter the discussion on subject you don't care.
>>97699307>World of Warcraft was the beginning of the enshittification of fantasy aestheticsanon how can you say something so brave yet so true
>>97701192Idk anon. It's just uninspiring I suppose.Pictures like:>>97699358>>97702260>>97703221Makes your mind thinking of some quest lying ahead or some story to be told, venturing further into fictional realm, visiting various places. This pictures: >>97702148>>97702302Looks like there is some action sequence in slow motion like MCU is about to commence and nothing else.
>>97706266Yeah, we can tell you don't play any tabletop games because you are too retarded.
>>97699307ah yes dnd was so grounded with the post apocalypse planet with psychic powers, space travel, the literal horror dimension, and all the bullshit that faerun was getting up to BEFORE Warcraft was a thing>>97701682i love how "grounded fantasy" just means copy lotr or warhammer you people are so boring
>>97699307The most grounded D&D got was with AD&D 2E's Birthright, an edition that not even the OSR folk like and a setting that was possibly one of the least popular ones from its era. All for people playing in any setting they'd like but don't be a disingenuous shit about it.
>>97699290Fantasy was born ungrounded, and while "grounded" shit has its own charms, will die ungrounded.
>>97709566>Fantasy was born ungroundedFalse
>>97708131>i love how "grounded fantasy" just means copy lotr or warhammerAccording to whom?Also I woudn't call : >>97701192 grounded
>>97709582???
>>97709594And..?
>>97709603George MacDonald's book predated the Hobbit by nearly 80 years, and his novel is very much fantastical and ungrounded.
>>97709582If LotR is "grounded", then grounded doesn't mean anything.
>>97705809Because most people who keep harping on about low-fantasy are band-wagoners who do it just to virtue signal. They literally don't know what low-fantasy is, either the archaic definition (low-fantasy is set in "our" world, high-fantasy is set in a "secondary" world) or the contemporary understanding. They are literally too retarded to understand that almost every work of classic fantasy is not low-fantasy. Low and high are about fantastical elements. Most alleged enjoyers of "low-fantasy" seem to think that this is just about whether the main characters are non-human or magic-users, but it's way more than that. Pocket dimensions, magic realms, societies of elves or dwarves, frequent encounters with monsters, magical items, etc. High-fantasy is about the presence of these things in general, not just whether the main characters (or the PCs, since we're on /tg/) have access to it. Low-Magic is the axis that this refers to. >Conan: High-Fantasy, Low-Magic (Conan doesn't use magic, but there are races of Snakemen, and he constantly encounters monsters.)>LotR: High-Fantasy, Low-Magic (Most characters don't use magic, but there are societies of elves, hobbits, orcs, and dwarves, and magic items are common if minor in effect; monsters are commonly encountered.)>Elric: High-Fantasy, High-Magic (No explanation needed.)>Witcher: High-Fantasy, Mid-Magic (Protagonists are superhuman, with access to minor magic (signs), sorceresses are prominent characters; monster encounters are ubiquitous.)It also has little to do with tone. Low-fantasy tends to lack more of the contrivances and conveniences of high-fantasy since it's supposed to have fewer supernatural elements overall, but you can have darker and grittier high-fantasy just the same, as well as low-fantasy which is basically just medieval Slice-of-Life with maybe a ghost. Then there are many different classifications that refer to OTHER elements e.g. Dark, Heroic, Sword & Sorcery, Epic Fantasy, etc.
>>97709611>and his novel is very much fantastical and ungrounded.>classical romances>ungroundedPress X to doubt
>>97709612There are no bolters, no Silver Hand paladins deep striking into mortuary factory.
>>97709707The most grounded works are accurate historical fiction. Next is shit like Tom Clancy's less bombastic works. Didn't happen, but could happen. Next is thriller shit like Splinter Cell. Then the Dark Knight Trilogy. Then there are several more layers until you get to actual fantasy. The second you include magic or clarketech, it stops being grounded.
>>97709714There are ghost armies, trolls who turn into stone, magic swords that detect orcs, superhuman elves, magical herbology, undead ring liches, dragons, giant eagles, walking & talking trees, dwarves, magic doors, flaming shadow not!demons, wizards, Tom Bombadil, goblins, dragons...
>>97709707Anon, the bulk of the novel takes place in literal Fairyland. Are you going to tell me that's grounded and realistic?
>>97709739So classical folklore.>>97709772>Anon, the bulk of the novel takes place in literal Fairyland.Yeah in classical folklore Fairyland, not Marvel Asgard.
>>97701169>I want larger than life fantasy>larger than life>completely empty of any lyric
>>97709864Just because it's classical folklore doesn't mean it's grounded. Old =/= grounded.
>>97710090>Old =/= grounded.That's exactly what it means.Now go back watch your Spiderman cartoon.
>>97710090Grounded doesn't mean realistic. Grounded means it's authentic. Wizards and dragons aren't real but the way they're presented in LoTR feels like it has credibility.
>>97709591according to multiple posts in this very thread. Every time this fuck ass topic gets brought up its the same damn run around: me like old warhammer, me like lotr, me like osr, me no like critical role, why am thing i no like not like thing am do like???
>>97707178>At this point I am sure you are doing it on purpose.My bad, meant Warcraft. Honest mistake.>This guy: >>97702302 seems to care.So following point: why even enter the discussion on subject you don't care.Again, why should I or anyone care when something was made? My whole point is if it's good it's good. Don't care if it just came out like Crimson Desert, a Classic like Skyrim, or a Legend like Zelda.
>>97710176>Again, why should I or anyone care when something was made?Because you've jumped the discussion about this subject, retard.>a Classic like SkyrimLMAO
>>97710137Spiderman is no less grounded than Beowulf.
>>97710221Okay lol,
Specifically regarding "boomercore" or "zoomercore", when (and in what demographics) it became popular is more important than when it was made. Something can be both "boomercore" and "zoomercore" because these do not describe traits of the relevant media so much as aspects of generational identity. Especially with adaptations, sequels, and remakes being released for different generations.
>>97710237So what would LOTR be? That was always big, it got bigger with tourist from the movie but it was always one of the biggest fantasy books of all time. Same with games like Legend of Zelda. Each game has always been big.
>>97710212Well if you look at what I have said, it doesn't matter. (Though I did bring up that I found it funny that people were pushing that the Witcher and Elric was the new shit even though they are older than the examples Warcraft and He-Man.)
>>97710304Yet He-Man was popular among boomers, while Witcher wasn't and only became popular when younger demographic appeared.
>>97710364The Witcher was big in Europe especially Poland. It blew up worldwide and outside of just those wh read fantasy after the game came out, but it was still a big series in fantasy.
